>> WELCOME BACK TO THE SPECIAL
EDITION OF OFF THE RECORD.
IT'S A BUSY ONE AS WE UNBUNDLE
INCLUDING THE REPUBLICAN AND
DEMOCRATIC PARTY CONVENTIONS THE
GOVERNOR'S KIDNAPPING TRIAL GO
SOUTH WITH THE FBI AND A
POSSIBLE DEAL INVOLVING DONALD
TRUMP AND AN ENDORSEMENT IN THE
RACE FOR GOVERNOR.
SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE
INSIDE OUT OFF THE RECORD.
>> PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD
IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY
MARTIN WEHMEIER A FULL-SERVICE
STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS AGENCY
PARTNERING WITH CLIENTS TO
PUBLIC RELATIONS DIGITAL
MARKETING AND PUBLIC POLICY
ENGAGEMENT.
>> NOW THIS EDITION OF OFF THE
RECORD.
>> WELCOME BACK.
AS OFTEN HAPPENS IN THIS
BUSINESS WE PUT LAST WEEK'S
PROGRAM TO BED AND THAT A BIG
STORY.
WHO WE WILL TALK ABOUT THE
DECISION AND THE GOVERNOR
KIDNAPPING CASE.
>> THERE WINNERS AND LOSERS IN
EVERY TRIBE AND NO ONE SAW THIS
COMING I WAS IN COURT AS THESE
VERDICTS AND NON- VERDICTS WERE
ANNOUNCED.
FAMILY MEMBERS WERE GASPING AND
THEN THERE WERE TEARS OF JOY.
>> IS HE HAPPY HE HAD -- IS HE
HAPPY?
>> DON'T OVERSTATE THE OBVIOUS.
>> IT WAS A ROLL OF THE DICE FOR
THEIR SON DANIEL HERE TOOK THE
STAND AND TOLD JURY THERE IS NO
SERIOUS PLOT TO KIDNAP THE
GOVERNOR.
HARRIS HAD TO BEEN FOUND NOT
GUILTY ON KIDNAPPING CONSPIRACY
TO BOMB CHARGES AND THE ILLEGALS
SHORT BARREL RIFLE CHARGE
APPEARED >> HE DID AN INCREDIBLE
JOB TELLING THE TRUTH AT THE
JURY BELIEVED HIM AND I'M SO
HAPPY THEY GAVE HIM THE BENEFIT
OF THAT PURE >> IT'S A STUNNING
DEFEAT FOR THE FEDS THE FBI
INVESTED SO MUCH IN THIS.
THEY MADE THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF
UNDERCOVER RECORDING.
>> WE ARE DISAPPOINTED WITH THE
OUTCOME.
WITHOUT THE JURY WOULD CONVICT
CONVICT BASED ON THE EVIDENCE WE
PUT FORWARD.
>> BRANDON WAS FOUND NOT GUILTY
ON HIS CHARGE CONSPIRACY TO
KIDNAP AT THE GOVERNOR.
THE JURY'S VIDEOS OF HIM, AND
THAT HE WOULD TAKE NO PRISONERS.
>> IF THIS WHOLE THING STARTS TO
HAPPEN I TELL YOU WHAT I AM
TAKING OUT AS MANY OF THOSE AS I
CAN.
EVERY SINGLE ONE.
>> HIS ATTORNEY SAID IT WAS FREE
SPEECH IS NOT A CRIME AND THIS
WAS NEVER A PLOT.
>> ARE GOVERNOR WAS NEVER IN ANY
DANGER AND I THINK THE JURY
DIDN'T GET ALL OF IT BUT THEY
SMELLED ENOUGH OF IT.
>> IS HE HAPPY?
>> I'M SURE IT IS IT IS HIS
BIRTHDAY.
>> TURNS OUT THEY WERE RELEASED
FROM CUSTODY WITHIN MINUTES THEY
HAD BEEN LOCKED UP SINCE THEY
WERE ARRESTED A YEAR AND A HALF
AGO.
THIS WAS A JURY OF SIX WOMEN IN
SIX MEN'S IDENTITIES ARE NOT
REVEALED PUBLICLY EVEN DEFENSE
ATTORNEYS DO NOT KNOW WHO THEY
ARE.
JURORS WERE TOLD BY THE JUDGE IF
YOU WANT TO TALK WITH THE
ATTORNEYS AND OTHER THIS IS OVER
YOU CALL THEM AND THEY DIDN'T
TALK WITH US AS THEY LEFT COURT
HERE THIS AFTERNOON.
NO ONE KNOWS WHAT WENT ON INSIDE
THE JURY ROOM FOR THE LAST FIVE
DAYS DURING THE MONTH OF THIS
TRIAL.
>> AS OUR RACHEL HOLLIS' STORY
PLAYING OUTPOST WOULD HAPPENED
LAST FRIDAY.
>> WE HAVE TO REMEMBER AND LOOK
INTO THE STATE CASES OF THIS IS
FAR FROM OVER IN MANY CASES I
THINK THAT NEXT, FIRST, WE NEED
TO ADDRESS THE ELEPHANT IN THE
ROOM BUT THIS WAS A SHOCK FOR
EVERYONE WHEN THIS HAPPENED.
NOT NECESSARILY THAT SOME PEOPLE
GOT OFF BUT THAT THERE WAS NO
CONVICTIONS OF ANY KIND SO FAR.
WE DO HAVE TWO MORE TRIALS TO
COME HERE WITH THE STATE TRIAL
BUT I THINK THERE WAS THE FREE
SPEECH DEFENSE BUT FOR HARRIS HE
HAD A LOT OF CHARGES THAT HE WAS
FACING AND THERE WAS MORE
EVIDENCE FOR HIM AS WELL AND SO
I THINK MAYBE JIM YOU COULD
SPEAK TO THIS MORE BUT I WAS
SURPRISED THAT THINGS PLAYED OUT
THE WAY THEY DID.
>> NO ONE SAW THIS COMING.
HARRIS, WE ALL THOUGHT HE WOULD
GET CONVICTED ON THAT GUN CHARGE
BECAUSE THE TESTIMONY WAS HE HAD
THE THE SHORT-BARRELED ILLEGAL
RIFLE THAT WAS A NO-BRAINER HE
HAD POSSESSION SO WHAT WENT ON
IN THE MAINZ OF THE JURORS?
BUT MOVING FORWARD THIS IS WHAT
I FIND INTERESTING AND YOU WILL
LOVE THIS BECAUSE IT'S A
POLITICAL ANGLE.
CREWS AND THE DRIVER SEAT NOW?
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND HERE'S
WHY SHE'S TALKING ABOUT THE TWO
STATE CASES IN JACKSON COUNTY
AND THOSE ARE HER CHARGES AND
THAT SHE CAN CHARGE THESE GUYS
YOU ARE EQUATED WITH STATE
CHARGES AND IT'S NOT DOUBLE
JEOPARDY IT IS AN ELECTION YEAR
FOR HER.
WILL SHE DO THAT?
>> YES AS EVER WOULD HAVE SAID
THIS IS NOT OVER BUT IT SEEMED
LIKE THERE WERE GASPS AS YOU
KNOW.
WE HEARD THE RESPONSE FROM THE
GOVERNOR'S OFFICE NOT FROM THE
GOVERNOR DIRECTLY THE DAY OF THE
CHARGES AND PUTTING THIS TO
CONTEXT SAYING THAT THE FACT
THAT THERE WERE NO CONVICTIONS
IT THIS MESSAGE AND CONTINUES
UNDER HEATED RHETORIC AND THE
VIOLENCE IN SOME CASES WE HAVE
SEEN OVER THE PASS FEW YEARS AND
THIS POLITICAL MOMENT THAT WE
FIND OURSELVES IN WHICH I THINK
FOR MANY IT WAS NOT NECESSARILY
JUST THE FACT THAT IT WAS A
SIGNAL THAT WAS WE HAD DEMOCRATS
TALKING ABOUT THAT AGAIN THE DAY
AFTER THEY WERE NOMINATED.
>> WE TALK ABOUT THE TIME WHERE
PEOPLE ARE DIVIDED AND THIS IS
SOMETHING THE PEOPLE FORGET
ABOUT OFTEN WHEN IT COMES TO A
JURY YOU HAVE TO SELECT 12
PEOPLE RANDOMLY TRY TO FIND 12
PEOPLE AT THIS STATE THAT A
GREAT ON ANY POLITICAL MATTER
THAT YOU SELECT RANDOMLY AND
IT'S VERY DIFFICULT AND I THINK
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE
ON THE MIND OF ATTORNEY GENERAL
AND THE FBI AND PROSECUTORS
ACROSS THE STATE.
>> SPEAKING OF THAT JURY
QUESTION MATT SNYDER WHO IS
INCREDIBLY SMART AND A FORMER
FEDERAL PROSECUTOR HIMSELF SAID
HE WAS SURPRISED THAT THE JUDGE
DIDN'T ASK THE JURY MORE
QUESTIONS AT THE BEGINNING ABOUT
WHAT BIASES THEY MAY HAVE.
LET'S REMEMBER EVEN SOME OF
THESE JURORS THAT SAY I AM A
NEWS JUNKIE BUT I HAVEN'T FILED
THE CASE THAT MUCH AND I THOUGHT
THAT WAS INTERESTING BUT ALSO
YOUR POINT ABOUT MOVING FORWARD
AND ALSO ANOTHER THING THAT
MATHIEU SNYDER SAID THEY GOT
SMART WISE THAT YOU CAN GO AND
IF THE JURORS WANT TO BE
INTERVIEWED AND AND THEY MAY
JUST DO THAT IF THE JURORS ARE
WILLING TO AND SAY THIS IS WHAT
DIDN'T WORK FOR US.
AND IF THEY DO TRY THE RETRIAL
AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE WILL BE
AND THAT'S WHAT ANDREW BURCH
SAID IN THE STATEMENT EVEN
THOUGH HE WAS NOT SUPER CLEAR
BUT THAT THEY COULD IF THE
JURORS ARE WILLING TO SAY HERE
IS WHAT FOR WORK -- WORKED FOR
US AND WHAT DID NOT AND IT COULD
AGAIN JUST BE A JURY OF YOUR
PEERS ALL 12 A DEGREE I SAT AS A
MURRAY DISH MURDER TRIAL AS A
JUROR AND ONE HOLDOUT CAN MAKE
ALL THE DIFFERENCE.
>> THE FBI TOOK A HIT ON THIS
THE ENTRAPMENT THING RESONATED
WITH THE JURY.
>> I THINK WILL THESE JURORS
DECIDE TO TALK AND IF THEY DO I
THINK ALL THESE PROSECUTORS FOR
THE UPCOMING TRIALS ARE WAITING
FOR THAT TO HAPPEN TO FIND OUT
WHAT DIDN'T WORK WHAT DO WE NEED
TO HIT ON MORE FOR THE NEXT FEW
TRIALS BECAUSE THAT WILL BE THE
KEY AND IT WILL BE THE DEFENSE
OF THE PROSECUTOR GOING FORWARD.
>> I THINK OF THE JURORS GO
PUBLIC MY THING IS THEY WILL
SHOW UP ON FOX NEWS CHANNEL ON
CABLE NATIONALLY THEY WILL REACH
OUT AND WANT THEIR STORY OUT
THERE THEY WILL TALK WITH THE
PRODUCER BEHIND THE SCENES AND
WORK OUT THE CONVERSATION AND
THESE WILL BE THE QUESTIONS.
THEY WILL BE ABLE TO TELL THEIR
STORY AND THIS IS THE SECOND
TIME THEY LOST ON A GROUP OF
GOVERNMENT PEOPLE.
THEY DIDN'T GO TO THE JURY.
THERE WASN'T ENOUGH EVIDENCE.
>> WHEN YOU HEAR THE DIALOGUE
THAT THEY WENT TO HER VACATION
COTTAGE AND STAKED OUT THE PLACE
WITH A MEN AND WOMEN CONCLUDE
THAT THEY WERE JUST SHOOTING THE
BREEZE?
WE WASTED FRIDAY OR SATURDAY
NIGHT DRIVING TO WHERE THEY WERE
WITHOUT DISCLOSING THE LOCATION?
AT THE RHETORIC IN THE TRIAL
SEEM TO POINT TOWARD SOME SORT
OF CONVICTION.
I WAS NOT THERE BUT YOU TELL ME.
>> IS A JUDGE GAVE THEM A
SPECIFIC INSTRUCTION THAT SAID
EVEN IF YOU JURORS BELIEVE THAT
THIS WAS AN IMPOSSIBLE PLOT TO
CARRY OUT YOU HAVE TO SET THAT
PART ASIDE AND SO WE'RE JUST
SPECULATING WHAT'S INSIDE THE
MAINZ OF THE JURORS BUT THERE
WAS A PLOT BUT AS I HAVE LOOKED
BACK AT THIS THERE WAS A STORY
BUT NOT AN ENDING TO THE STORY.
THERE IS NOTHING TO THE CASE
THERE ALL ARRESTED
SIMULTANEOUSLY THROUGHOUT THE
STATE.
ALL 14 BUT THERE IS NEVER ANY
EVIDENCE THAT WE WILL ALL MEET
ON THE 15TH OF OCTOBER OR THE
20TH OF OCTOBER YEAR HERE
YOU'RE HERE YOU'RE HERE AND
THAT'S THE END GAME.
THAT WAS NOT THE END GAME TO
THIS PLOT THOUGH A JUROR COULD
SAY IT WAS ALL TALK WHICH IS ONE
OF THE DEFENSES.
ANOTHER WAS ENTRAPMENT.
THERE WERE PEOPLE FOR THE FEDS
IN FEDS INFORMANTS AND FBI AGENT
WHO'S INFILTRATED THIS AND THERE
WAS EVIDENCE THAT THEY WERE EGG
IT ON AND ENTICED AND INDUCED TO
CONTINUE THEIR PLOT.
>> WHEN WE HAD THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL ON A COUPLE WEEKS AGO
SHE THOUGHT THIS WAS A SOLID
CASE.
>> THUS TO THE GASPS AND WHEN
EVERYONE WAS SO SHOCKED AND
AGAIN I THINK THE GOVERNOR'S
OFFICE COMING IN SAYING IS THIS
THE NEW NORMAL?
IS THIS THE EXPECTATION YOU HAVE
AN HOUR WHEN YOU'RE ELECTED IN
THE OFFICE IS THAT YOU HAVE TO
TAKE THREATS AND FOLKS CAN MAKE
BOMBS AND DRIVE PASS YOUR
PERSONAL HOME?
AND IS THIS WHERE WE FIND
OURSELVES AFTER THESE FEW
VIOLENT YEARS IN AMERICAN
POLITICS?
>> IS A STORY IS NOT GOING AWAY?
>> NOT AT ALL.
WHAT WE HAVE SEEN PLAY OUT IS
SOME REPUBLICANS HAVE STARTED TO
WEAVE A CONSPIRACY THEORY ABOUT
THE GOVERNOR AND THE AUTHORITIES
AND THERE IS NO EVIDENCE BEHIND
IT BUT IT IS A RESONATING.
>> LET'S PUT THIS ON THE TABLE.
SAUL DONNELL HINTED THAT MAY THE
GOVERNOR WAS BEHIND THIS PLOT
WITH THE FBI DID I HEAR THAT
CORRECTLY?
>> ON ITS FACE IT IS RIDICULOUS
BECAUSE WHO IS AN OFFICE IN
CHARGE OF THE DEPARTMENT OF
JUSTICE AT THE TIME THE PLOT WAS
INVESTIGATED?
IT WAS DONALD TRUMP AND IN THE
BEGINNING HE WAS TAKING CREDIT
FOR HIS.
PEOPLE IF YOU LOOK AT THIS TIME
LINE AND HOW THIS PLAYED OUT
BACK IN 2020 THIS THEORY HAS
NOTHING TO IT BUT PEOPLE ARE SO
CONSPIRACY MINDED THAT THIS IS
RESONATING.
>> IN MY REPLIES IN THE JURY'S
DECISION THERE I STARTED TO SEE
A LOT OF JANUARY 6 WHICH
PRODUCED JANUARY 6 WAS A HOAX
IT'S FBI AS WELL AND THOSE
PEOPLE START TO GET OUT NOW I
THINK YOU'LL END UP BEING --
IT'S A NATIONAL STORY BUT IT
WILL CONTINUE TO BE A NATIONAL
STORY AND POTENTIALLY HAVING
THIS DOMINO EFFECT OF WHAT CAN
TRUST.
AND PEOPLE WHO ARE CONSPIRACY
MINDED WILL FEED INTO THAT MORE
AND SAY WHAT CAN WE TRUST
ANYMORE.
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT DONALD
TRUMP.
YOU MAY NOT BELIEVE THE STORY
BUT LET'S LOOK AT WHAT MIGHT BE
GOING GOING ON.
>> FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP
HAS ENDORSED LOTS OF CANDIDATES
IN MICHIGAN RUNNING FOR OFFICE
BUT IN THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR'S
RACE TO DEFEAT THE WOMAN FROM
MICHIGAN QUOTE UNQUOTE DONALD
TRUMP HAS BEEN ALL CRICKETS ON
THE ENDORSEMENT FRONT HOWEVER TO
MICHIGAN SOURCES NOW CONTEND
THAT MR. TRUMP WILL ENDORSE THE
REPUBLICAN PRIMARY UNDER THESE
CONDITIONS, POLITICAL AND
CONSULTANT JON YOUNG IS WORKING
TO GET MATTHEW TO PERNOD THE
REPUBLICAN NOMINATION FOR
ATTORNEY GENERAL WHICH MR. TRUMP
WANTS UNDER THIS ALLEGED DEAL IF
HE DELIVERS A NUMBER ANOTHER
MEDICATION FOR DEPRESSION OF THE
FORMER PRESIDENT WILL THEN
DELIVER HIS ENDORSEMENT FOR THE
CLIENT FOR GOVERNOR.
JOHNSON.
I MICHIGAN POLLSTER AND PUNDITS
ARGUE THAT THIS IS A GAME
CHANGER.
>> ON A SCALE OF ONE TO TEN IT'S
A TEN.
IT DOESN'T GET BIGGER THAN THAT.
>> THE NOMINATION REALLY WILL BE
DECIDED BY AN EVER DONALD TRUMP
ENDORSES AND IF HE ENDORSES
PERRY JOHNSON THEN THAT WILL BE
A VERY SIGNIFICANT EVENT IN THIS
CAMPAIGN.
>> AND POLITICAL PUNDIT BILL
BALLENGER CONCURS.
>> THESE POLLS SHOW THAT
80 PERCENT OF REPUBLICAN PRIMARY
VOTERS WOULD BE MORE INCLINED TO
VOTE FOR CANDIDATE WHO IS
ENDORSED BY TRUMP.
>> MR. TRUMP'S OFFICE HAS NOT
CONFIRMED THE STORY BUT IF TRUE
WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER CANDIDATES
RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR, ALL 11?
LOOK COULD THEY BE THINKING?
>> YOU THINK YOU HOPE IT'S NOT
TRUE.
>> YOU THINK IT WOULD SET
SOMETHING IN MOTION THAT COULD
LEAD TO JOHNSON BEING ABLE TO BE
PERCEIVED AS THE FRONT RUNNER.
>> SO IF YOU'RE KEVIN WINKY HER
TUTOR DIXON AND SAUL DONNELL AND
YOU HEAR THE STORY FOR THE FIRST
TIME WHAT DO YOU THINK?
>> I THINK THEY REALIZE THAT THE
JIG MAY BE UP HERE >> THE TRUMP
ENDORSEMENT OF PERRY JOHNSON WE
WILL KNOW AFTER APRIL 23RD IF
THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENS.
>> WHEN YOU HEARD THIS YOU SAID
IT'S BUBIK IS THAT SHE YOU WHEN
YOU HEARD THE STORIES THAT YOU
THINK IS ON SOMETHING.
>> LOOK COULD BE POSSIBLE?
SURE.
>> DOESN'T THIS SOUND LIKE
DONALD TRUMP AND JON YOUNG?
>> YES AND YES AND IT ALSO
SOUNDS LIKE ANY OF THESE THINGS
MAY BE DONALD TRUMP MAKES A DEAL
UNTIL HE DOESN'T AND IT BUT TO
THE POINT I THINK THERE IS
ABSOLUTELY SOMETHING THERE THAT
WE KNOW ALL OF THE REPUBLICAN
CANDIDATES, ALL 1,472 OF THEM
THERE WILL BE LIKELY IF A FEW
ALASKA IN APRIL 19TH AT
4:00 P.M. BUT ALL OF THEM WANT
THE DONALD TRUMP BECAUSE AT
LEAST IT GETS THEM THROUGH THE
REPUBLICAN PRIMARY BUT WE ALSO
HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT DOES THE
ENDORSEMENT DO COME THE GENERAL?
AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S
SHORTSIGHTED BUT YOU HAVE TO GET
TO THE NEXT ELECTION AND SO OF
COURSE THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE
WANTS P OR ? HAVE BEEN TALKING
ABOUT TUTOR DIXON IT SEEMED LIKE
MAYBE THERE WAS SOME LOVE IS
THERE BUT YES.
>> SHE HAS SO MANY ON HER STAFF
WITH CONNECTIONS TO THE
PRESIDENT THAT ARE THAT COMES
FROM.
>> THAT'S TRUE BUT THE FORMER
PRESIDENT MADE MULTIPLE COMMENTS
THAT ARE GLOWING ABOUT TUTOR
DIXON WHICH IS MORE YOU CAN SAY
FOR.
JOHNSON WHO HE DIDN'T EVEN
RECOGNIZE WHEN HE CAME TO MACOMB
COUNTY.
>> HE RECOGNIZED THEM IN A
FLORIDA SAYING THE POLLING
NUMBERS HAVE BEEN GOOD.
TAKE IT'S HARD TO SAVE IT'S TRUE
OR NOT BUT IF IT IS IT'S NOT
SURPRISING PICK THE PEOPLE TRUMP
HAS BEEN ENDORSING HAS ALWAYS
BEEN A GAME OF HOW IT COULD HELP
HIM EVERYONE HE HAS ENDORSED SO
FAR HAVE BEEN PEOPLE WHO HAVE
HAD AT THE VERY LEAST SKEPTICISM
ABOUT THE 2020 ELECTION AND
THOSE RESULTS AND SOME OF THEM
STRONGLY PULLING IT THESE
CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT TRUMP
HAS SHARED BUT I THINK HE IS
SETTING UP A KINGDOM HERE IN
MICHIGAN THAT WILL BE FOCUSED ON
HIM SHOULD HE DECIDE TO RUN
SHOULD HE POSSIBLY LOSE IN THE
NEXT ELECTION THAT WILL SIDE
WITH HIM WHO WOULD GO ALONG WITH
THAT AS GOVERNOR I GUESS WE
DON'T TOTALLY KNOW IT, TIM MAYBE
YOU KNOW BETTER.
>> WE WILL FIND OUT.
THIS IS THE POINT.
WE WILL KNOW WHETHER THE DEAL
WAS DELIVERED AND HOW THE AG
RACE LOOKS.
>> THERE'S A LOT TO PLAY OUT IN
THIS THIS OVER OUT -- OVERLAPPED
ANOTHER TOPIC THAT COULD COME
OUT HERE THE RECENT COUNTY
DELEGATE CONVENTIONS AND BEFORE
HE MOVED OFF OF THE GOVERNOR
CANDIDATE I WANT TO SAY THIS,
THERE IS DEEP DISSENSION WITHIN
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
>> HOW GREAT IS THIS FOR US IN
THE NEWS BUSINESS?
WE HAVE HIGH STAKES DRAMA BEFORE
THE HIGH STAKES OF DRAMA BECAUSE
WE HAVE THE HATFIELD AND THE
MCCOYS FIGHTING WITHIN THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY.
GROUND ZERO IS MACOMB COUNTY
HE'S ALL OVER IT OVER THERE AND
YOU HAVE A COUNTY CHAIRMAN FOR
DOUBT YOU HAVE A NEW COUNTY
CHAIRMAN IN.
THE NEW COUNTY CHAIRMAN IS
TRYING TO BRIDGE BOTH SIDES OF
IT BUT HE'S GOING AROUND WE CAN
CALL OTHER RHINOCEROSES ANYMORE
AND WE CAN'T DO THE LITMUS TEST,
ARE YOU TRUMP ENOUGH?
THIS IS GRAND FOR US.
IT IS HIGH DRAMA.
>> THIS WAS ONE OF THE MOST WILD
MEETINGS I COVERED IN MY CAREER.
THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT REALLY
BELIEVE THE FUTURE OF THE UNITED
STATES IS ON THE LINE ON
APRIL 23RD IN THE SELECTION
AND IN MANY WAYS IT IS SOMETHING
THAT YOU LOVE TO COVER AS A
JOURNALIST BECAUSE REALLY IT IS
A TURNING POINT FOR THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY.
THE PARTIES AT A CROSSROADS.
APRIL 23RD WILL BE THE FIRST
MOMENT WHERE THEY DECIDE WHICH
WAY IT WILL GO.
>> APRIL 23RD IS THE SPRING
NOMINATING CONVENTION WERE ALL
REPUBLICANS GATHER AND PICK THE
AG CANDIDATES AND THEY WILL NOT
PICK A GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE.
THAT IS THAT OF THE PRIMARY BUT
A LOT IS RIDING ON THIS
CONVENTION.
>> NO DOUBT.
MANY PEOPLE SAY THIS IS A LITMUS
TEST FOR SEEING HOW STRONG
TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT IS HERE IN
MICHIGAN AND WE SAW THAT
CERTAINLY P A ? CAN SPEAK MORE
ABOUT THE CONVENTION BUT LET'S
REMEMBER THAT WHAT HAPPENS ON
THE 23RD IS NOT NECESSARILY
GOING TO TELL US EXACTLY WHAT
WILL HAPPEN TO THE PRIMARY IN
AUGUST BECAUSE THE PEOPLE THAT
ARE AT THE ZIP -- THESE THESE
CONVENTIONS ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE
SUPER SUPER STRONG REPUBLICANS
AND WHO WE SEE, AND PRIMARIES
WILL ALWAYS BE STRONG
REPUBLICANS OF COURSE THEY WILL
BE THERE AS WELL BUT THERE WILL
BE THIRD-PARTY AND INDEPENDENT
AND THOSE WHO ARE THIS WAY ON
ONE ISSUE BUT COULD GO FOR A
DEMOCRAT AS WELL AND SO I THINK
IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY GIVE US
THE FULL ANSWER ON WHAT HAPPENS
IN AUGUST AND NOVEMBER.
>> DOES A TRUMP ENDORSEMENT MEAN
A TICKET IN OR IS IT A
LIABILITY?
>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION AND
SOME EXPERTS SAID THAT IT IS
DECISIVE AND WHAT I AM HEARING
FROM PEOPLE AND SEEING ON THE
GROUND IS THAT IT MAY BE
INFLUENTIAL BUT IT'S NOT
DECISIVE AND THEN YOU LOOK AT
OTHER STATES AND TRUMP IS HAVING
A FEW LOSSES BEING WRAPPED UP
RIGHT NOW AND IN MICHIGAN
SPECIFICALLY THE CHOICE BEFORE A
LOT OF THE REPUBLICANS IS GOING
WITH DONALD TRUMP WHO THEY
SUPPORT IT'S NOT ABOUT ANTI-
TRUMP OR PRO TRUMP BUT HOW MUCH
DO THEY VALUE AND WHO DID THEY
THINK GIVES THEM THE BEST CHANCE
THE GENERAL ELECTION.
THESE REPUBLICANS AT THE END OF
THE DAY WANT TO WIN.
THEY WANT TO BE NESSEL AND
WITMER AND THEY'RE TRYING TO
MAKE A CALCULATION, DO THEY
THINK TRUMP HAS THE RIGHT PATH
OR GOING FOR THE SWING VOTERS IN
THE MIDDLE IS A BETTER PATH?
>> YES AND AT WHAT POINT HAVE
YOU ALMOST GONE TOO FAR ABOUT
PUSHING OUT THE PARK?
AND THERE ARE FOLKS LIKE JEFF
TIMBER WHO IS LIKE YOU SORT OF
UNDERSTAND AND YOU GET.
LIKE HE IS JUST LIKE YOU HAVE
FOLKS CALL MIKE SHARKEY A RINO
RIGHT NOW AND HE'S COMING OUT
ENDORSING TUTOR DIXON SAYING HE
WILL GO AGAINST SOME OF THE
TRUMP ENDORSEMENTS FOR SITTING
CANDIDATES RIGHT NOW AND THE
REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE.
>> BUT THERE MUST BE FRUSTRATION
IN THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY.
SOME PEOPLE THINK IT IS
ATROPHIED OVER THE YEARS BUT
TERM LEONARD GOING TO DELEGATE
SAYING LOOK IF WE ARE GOING TO
MAKE DANA NESSEL THAN THIS GUY
THAT YOU WANT TO PICK JUST
CANNOT GET IT DONE.
>> AND THE DATA SHOWS THAT THIS
IS NOT MAGICAL THINKING.
LOOK AT 2018 TOM LEONARD CAME
WITHIN IN THREE.
>> EXACTLY.
THAT WAS THE CLOSEST.
TO THE CLOSEST SPREAD OF ALL OF
THOSE STATEWIDE CANDIDATES.
THIS IS NOT THEORETICAL THINKING
WE HAVE SEEN IS MAGICAL OF.
>> MY POINT IS LOGIC WHEN IT
COMES TO SOME TRUMP PEOPLE THE
CRITICS SAY IS NONEXISTENT YOU
CANNOT LOGICALLY REASON WITH
THEM ABOUT THE OUTCOME AND TAKE
THIS TO WHERE IT GOES IN
NOVEMBER.
>> RESOLVE THIS BY GETTING RON
WEISER AND MADDOCK ON THE SHOW
AND GET THEM IN THESE CHAIRS AND
DISCUSS IT WITH THEM.
YOU WON'T COME ON THE SHOW WILL
THEY?
>> WE COULD LOWER THE NATIONAL
DEBT BUT IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
>> I UNDERSTAND BECAUSE THEY
DON'T WANT TO DISCUSS IT
PUBLICLY.
>> ITS DIRTY WASH.
>> HOW DO YOU WIN IN NOVEMBER
WITH A SPLIT PARTY?
>> THE PEOPLE IN THE PARTY THAT
ARE SUPPORTING THEM THEY DO HAVE
A LOGICAL ARGUMENT.
THEY ARE MAKING AN ARGUMENT.
TOM LEONARD LOST TO NESSEL WE
HAVE SEEN THAT BUT THEY BELIEVE
THAT THEY NEED TO CHASE DOWN
TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN STRATEGY
BECAUSE BASICALLY THE
ESTABLISHMENT DONORS ARE MOVING
AWAY FROM THE PARTY AND THE
PARTY CANNOT COUNT ON THOSE
PEOPLE TO FIND THEM ANYMORE I
THINK THERE IS A DECISION THAT
HAS BEEN MADE LIKE WE NEED THE
GRASSROOT DONORS THAT DONALD
TRUMP UNLOCKED YOU WON'T GET
THOSE IF YOU GO THE USUAL WAY
THAT YOU PLAY THE ELECTIONS.
IT IS AN INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT
DECISION THAT THE PARTY IS
CAUGHT IN.
EITHER WAY THEY GO THERE WILL BE
PROBLEMS.
>> WILL WE HAVE A BREAK PARTY?
>> I DON'T THINK SO.
>> I DON'T THINK SO.
>> THE DEMOCRATS IT DID HAVE A
CONVENTION AND IT SHOWS WHERE
THEY ARE IN THE RUN DOWN IN THE
STORY WE HAVE TWO MINUTES TO GO
TO WHAT WE LEARN FROM THAT
CONVENTION?
>> THEN NEED ANOTHER CUP OF
COFFEE.
>> THE THINGS WE HAVE KNOWN
BEFORE WHICH IS THAT WE HAVE
JOCELYN BENSON WILL BE THE
SECRETARY OF STATE CANDIDATE,
DANA NESSEL AS ATTORNEY GENERAL
AND GRETCHEN WITMER AND GARLAND
GILCHREST AS GOVERNOR AND
LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.
WE DID HERE ARE SOME ISSUES
OBVIOUSLY THAT THEY WILL BE
TALKING A LOT ABOUT COMING INTO
THE ELECTION ONE OF WHICH IS
ABORTION RIGHTS.
TWO WEEKS TO GO THREE WEEKS AGO
WE SAW -- NOPE ONE WEEK.
THERE IS NO TIME.
THE GOVERNOR CAME OUT AND SAID
SHE'S USING HER AUTHORITY TO
BRING ABORTION BACK TO THE
FOREFRONT.
>> I HAVE A POSTER THAT SAYS
THIS DECIDES THE RACE.
>> THAT'S RIGHT AND FOR YEARS
AND YEARS IT'S THE ECONOMY AND
THE REPUBLICANS WANT TO TALK
ABOUT THE ECONOMY AND INFLATION
AND THINGS THAT FOLKS ARE
FEELING DAY IN AND DAY OUT EVERY
TIME YOU DRIVE PASS A GAS
STATION HOWEVER, ONCE THE
SUPREME COURT RULES AND IT COULD
BE ANY WEEK NOW BUT THAT COULD
REALLY CHANGE THIS AGAIN FOR
TURN OUT AND FOR ENTHUSIASM
WITHIN THE PARTY.
>> ARE THE DEMOCRATS A GEEK TO
DO THE ELECTION?
>> I THINK THEY ARE ENTHUSED
ABOUT THIS.
WE HAVE TWO PARTIES THAT WILL
TALK PASS EACH OTHER.
DEMOCRATS WILL BE FOCUSED ON
ABORTION RIGHTS AND DEMOCRACY
BEING AT STAKE AND REPUBLICANS
WILL COUNSELING TRY TO BRING IT
BACK TO THE ECONOMY AND GOOD
LUCK TO ALL OF US TO TRY TO GET
ANY OF US TO ANSWER QUESTIONS
STRAIGHT ON ANY OF THIS.
>> DO WE EXPECT TO SEE JOE BIDEN
HERE CAMPAIGNING WITH THE
GOVERNOR?
>> I THINK HE STARTED DOING THAT
AND THEN YOU KNOW HIS POLL
NUMBERS ARE NOT WHERE THE
MAJORITY THOUGHT THEY WOULD BE
AND WE SAW IT DROP OFF LAST TIME
HE WAS HERE IN OCTOBER.
>> SHE WAS NOT THERE SHE WAS IN
CALIFORNIA.
>> A GOOD POINT.
>> MAYBE IT WAS A COINCIDENCE.
>> AND STACY ABRAMS IN GEORGIA
THERE IS A SCHEDULING CONFLICT.
>> IT GOES BACK TO THAT ASSET
AND LIABILITY ISSUE THAT'S THE
BEAUTY OF THE STORY AND WE'LL
SEE HOW THIS THING DEVELOPS
THANK YOU FOR YOUR INSIGHT.
HOW MUCH ARE CHARGING ME FOR
THIS?
DO WE NEED GAS MONEY?
>> WE CAN NEGOTIATE.
>> WELCOMED OFF THE RECORD IT SO
NICE TO GET YOU ON BOARD.
EVERYONE HAVE A NICE WEEKEND.
NEXT WEEK MSU JOURNAL STUDENTS
DISCUSSING THE ROCK.
WE WILL SEE YOU THEN.
>> FOR MORE OF THE RECORD VISIT
W K A R .COM.