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>>> Welcome back torque you are
guest this week say former
Democratic candidate for
governor and a current candidate
for the house.
Our lead story a bipartisan dill
deal a budget deficit.
A new deal needed on the next
one, on the O.T.R. Pam.
Jonathan, contact I and Zachary
silt in with us as get the
inside out "Off the Record."
Production of "Off the Record"
is made possible in part by the
following.
Business leaders for Michigan
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Michigan a top 10 state in the
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And now this edition of "Off the
Record" with Tim Skubick.
>> Thank you very much.
And thank you for working us in
to your schedule, joining us
here on "Off the Record" as we
continue coverage of the budget
deficit and they had a by tart
an deal at ride by the house and
senate what are the highlights
and low rights as the case may
be, Kathy.
>> It's a big deal, because it's
a big budget deficit.
Over $3 million for this fiscal
year and another $3 billion for
the next fiscal year.
One of the main things was
350 million from the rainy day
fund and they also supplemented
the budget with a bunch of money
from federal government from the
Corona relieve act instead of
cutting the budget, the State
budget of the Michigan state
police and the corrections
department by backfilled it with
the department of corrections so
there was a lot of talk of whit
her had been defunding the
police, that wasn't the case she
moved federal money in to that
to back feel it.
>> Zach.
>> And, you know, kathy is a
right, really the big thing here
was the use of the federal
money.
You are talking about a
$2.2 billion middle of the year
deficit with only a few months
left in the fiscal year.
Most of the mon it's state
spends is out the door.
It was funny because for a long
time the governor had been
saying the federal government
had to come through with more
money for the States.
She is still saying that, but
was also saying at the time
there wasn't flexibility in the
first $3 billion of cares action
or coronavirus relief funds that
the federal government said for
the states to use.
I think the governor and the
legislature decided to tell the
government we are going to see
how serious you are about it.
I know may have said they
believe this complies with all
of the federal rules, but it is
different from what was said for
a while.
And, you know, they were
basically able to backfill all
of the reduction -- not all of
it it, a rouge portion of the
reductions in state spending
with the federal coronavirus
money.
I think knowing that it the odds
the federal government will come
knocking on the door and say we
would like, you know, that
billion dollars back, please.
Is extremely unlikely,
particularly in an election
year.
Particularly in an election year
where Michigan is so important.
The other piece that really sad
out was how they handle the
additional money to schools.
Schools lost, I think,
$256 million in state spending
but are getting 512 million, if
my math is right, Hopefully have
it is, in federal cares act
spending.
So they are actually going to
get more out of this for the
reminder of the fiscal year,
$350 per pupil.
>> Yeah, I think the State, the
whitmer administration and now
this deal in concert with the
legislature has been pretty
crafty about how may have taken
advantage of federal dollars
that were available.
Of course may have not only used
the cares act money to backfill
and sort of in a strategic way,
Zach, you are right it, could be
a test case but they are sending
most of the moneys to police, to
corrections, and to schools,
which do have more costs
associated with the pandemic
than other areas of state
government.
So I think they can make a
legitimate claim, anyways, that
they are using in this money in
coronavirus-related activities.
Not simply to make found a
budget deficit.
At the same time, the State has,
and this has been more
controversial, may have avoided
huge lay offs in state
government by essentially
furloughing state employees one
day a week.
And making them eligible then
for the 600-dollar a week in
pandemic unemployment
assistance.
So the State has, again, sought
of tapped in to what federal
resources there are available to
weather this storm right now.
Tim, I don't want to get ahead
of you because this is probably
your next question, of course
the big issue now is next year.
The State has pretty muched used
up all of the 3 billion in cares
act funding got.
It's tapped the rainy day fund
there is still about 850 million
left in there.
But the State is looking another
another $3 billion deficit and
has to balance its budget by
October 1.
So if there is not more federal
money coming from congress it
sound like in the senate GOP
plan that they are working on
doesn't include initially money
for states, at least direct
assistance for states and local
governments this thing is going
to get a lot worse come
October 1.
>> Yeah, I want to get in to the
October 1 thing.
But to put a ribbon on this
thing, any tomb you come up with
a bipartisan agreement,
particularly in the current
climate where the governor and
the senate Republican leader or
not getting a long so well now I
am picking up vibrations the
speaker is upset with the
Republican leader so to rise
above that and get an agreement
is good news.
It's easy to do an agreement
with somebody else's money, they
didn't have to raise taxes.
The administration going in to
this thing was very antsy about
the Republicans coming after
this budget and taking a chance
to reduce the size of the
bureaucracy and lay off some
people and say, boy, we are
really cutting state services.
No one in TV land will feel
these cuts at all S that a fair
statement Kathy?
>> Yeah, I don't think that
there is going to be a whole lot
of angst about this particular
budget.
They were able to do that.
But you are right, on
October 1st, that's going to
be -- $3 billion is a tough nut
to crack.
And they don't have a whole lot
of avenues to explore to get rid
of that without making some
pretty drastic cuts.
>> Yeah, I --
>> Probably solved the next
one -- go ahead.
>> Yeah, well, I wish I knew the
answer to that. I really think
the key question is what does
congress do, with all the house
Democrats in the house passed a
$3 trillion that had a large sum
of money to help states and
local governments with their
budgets.
The senate Republicans and the
president turned up their nose
at that.
This was a while ago.
And now the sort of the
president and the senate
Republicans can't seem to get on
the same payment.
But to the extent that they
might be, there is a talk of a
1 trillion package that does
have money to help the schools
reopen.
But not for states generally.
So right now it seems like -- I
guess if you are the house
Democrats and you are speaker
Pelosi, you just sit back and
let the Republicans negotiate
against themselves.
The political environment is
really favoring the Democrats
right now.
The Republicans we want from
saying, well, maybe we'll do
another stimulus package to now
they are up to a trillion and
probably if you are speaker
Pelosi you just sit back and let
them twist and come up more.
Now, is that said, it's -- there
is some aid to the states here
that will make the task lot
easier.
If there isn't, and heavens
knows congress has a knack for
screwing it up and not coming
together on something.
It's a pile of trouble.
You know, 3 trillion as Kathy
said, it is a massive number for
one fiscal year to resolve.
It would -- pulled pretty much
have to have some combination of
a either, you know, massive
amount of cuts, a massive tax
increase.
Huge -- some kind of -- there is
always a accounting gag you turn
to, maybe they try one of those.
About you it will take something
extremely dramatic.
Remember, the entire general
funds of the state is only,
quote, unquote, only, about
$10 billion.
That's what you have to target
to take 30% of the budget oat at
one fell swoop would be brutal.
>> Let's keep in mind this final
decision on resolve that go
$3 billion figure will come
right on the eve of an election
and so everybody is going to be
very concerned as to how they do
on this.
On one hand if you it out the
State police and roll back
prisons and stuff like that.
That's bad politically.
But on the other hand, if you
are talking about a revenue
increase everybody goes bonkers
over that as well.
This is going to be a real test
of the leadership of these
leaders.
The two Republican leaders and
this governor as to whether they
can navigate that in a way that,
yes, there will be disagreements
but at the end of the day may
have to find a bottom line, I'll
tell you what, the federal
government is not going to send
them $3 billion.
They are going to get some
money, but it won't fill in the
entire hole.
Isn't that a fair statement,
Jonathan?
>> You are probably right.
I mean, from what we are hearing
out of senate Republicans right
now, you know, they are starting
at $0 for state government, for
state governments.
The bigger issue, let's pull
back a second state government
financing obviously a huge deal,
but there is also a lot of other
issues tied up in this congress
the package, most importantly
unemployment assistance for the
many, many people who remain
jobless during the pandemic.
That 600-dollar a week pandemic
unemployment assistance that I
mentioned expires at the end of
this week, you know, starting
next week people who certificate
for unemployment benefits won't
be able to watch for that. It's
going to be a big, big deal.
There is talk congress might
trying to do some sort of
stopgap measure on that front,
but that will be the driving
force behind get something sort
of deal done, not necessarily
state finances at this point.
>> Let's turn the page and talk
about covid.
We have not heard anything from
the governor this week.
Well, we are not told -- my
guess is she's taking time off
if I am wrong I am sure she'll
call me and tell me that I was
and I would appreciate the call.
Let's assume, Kathy.
With another 700 cases on one
day, are we getting closer to a
phase three roll back?
What's your get tell you until.
>> I think the magic number is a
thousand.
And if we get up to a thousand
and maybe even 800 or 900 I
think that we'll see that indoor
dining will end again.
There are many things that she
can do I don't know about if
northern Michigan and the upper
peninsula, those numbers haven't
gone up too much.
Northern Michigan may have in
spots.
There are just these little
pockets that keep happening and
until order to -- in order to
get rid of -- to get tamp those
down, they are going to have to
do some -- some things about
gatherings and it's the indoor
dining that type of thing that I
think if we see anything that's
what we will see.
>> Zach, what does your gut tell
you?
>> You know, it's -- because the
governor has been stridently
resistent to putting numbers or
metrics on what creates that
Remember holes for certain
actions, I really don't know
what -- it seems like there is
sort of an amalgamation of
numbers and sense of the
situation and advice that goes
in to what she decides to do.
I think -- a thousand cases,
yes.
I think, though, there have
would to be starting to be a bit
of a crew from the hospitals
that they are starting to see
capacity diminish.
You know, I think if the
governor were to move the State
back to phase three or, you
know, where people can't gee to
the office again and indoor
dining is shutdown, and it would
mean definitively no in person
schooling and a whole host of
other restrictions, I think it
will be easier to make the case
for that if the hospitals are
showing capacity concerns in the
parts of the State where she
feels she needs to do that.
If it's just more cases but
these tend to be the
asymptomatic folks and the
hospital capacity seems to be
not a problem, that will be more
challenging because that, of
course, is the big reason for
the shutdown in the beginning,
was the concern about
overrunning the hospitals, the
need to flatten the curve.
And so forth.
You know, the governor, she has
her phase plan, but she's
deviated from that constantly
to, you know, suit whatever she
feels is needed at that moment.
She's clearly resistent,
understandably, to rolling it
back.
So I think it's probably going
to have to get a fair amount
worse than we are seeing right
now.
>> All right.
Let's call in our guest right
now.
Somebody's name you know
thousand pronounce now after
that bundle of money that he's
getting.
Are you there, my friend?
>> I am here, Tim, good morning,
how are you?
>> Good.
We are doing well.
Have you missed us, sir?
>> Oh, absolutely.
I missed you.
When I first came on your show I
was -- people warned me Tim is a
veteran, all of them are
veterans and I was a chemist, I
was new to the political scene.
And examine I came on your show
against the advice against some
of my well wishers.
>> Goodness, gracious, obviously
you shot those people because
here you are, this morning.
>> Gentlemen.
>> Jonathan start us off, okay.
Jonathan.
>> Yeah.
You ran a state campaign in
2018, you are now running for a
state house seat in Detroit.
What did you learn from your
2018 race and how are you
applying those lessons to your
state house race?
>> Well, you know, I travel all
across Michigan, had a chance to
speak with a lot of my
constituents learn about the
issues and learn about the
process.
I am a small business owner, 25,
30 years being a serial
entrepreneur, running my own
company as a CEO is different
than from being in a political
environment, but I like the
experience, it was exciting.
It was something that I learn a
lot.
And I realize that I have a
passion for it.
More than just doing God for my
familiar family, it's a chance
for to make an impact on the
entire state and now under the
current situation you know, make
a statement make an impact on my
district.
>> Shri, you've got eight -- I
think it's eight candidates in
your race.
And in this pandemic, it's hard
to breakthrough.
What types of things are you
doing to try to connect with
voters who maybe didn't know you
that well even though you ran
for governor?
>> Well, we use a lot of
mailings, we sent about eight or
10 different mailers.
We also use this opportunity to
talk about covid.
So several of our mailers had
nothing do with politics, but we
were evening indicating people
about covid.
We also have some door knockers,
we went and hang material on
people's door informing them
about covid.
Because as you know, Kathy,
covid disproportionately
impacted the African American
community, disproportionately
affected the resident of
Detroit.
And we took upon ourselves to
educate and some of our mailers
as big as 20,000, that we mailed
out across our district
educating people and we did that
through phones and some to some
extent by door knocking.
>> Shri, do you find that people
remember you from the governor's
race?
You made the decision to move to
Detroit, and run there where you
did win the city and the
Democratic primarily in 2018,,
down find they were remembering
you?
Do you think your success in
Detroit in the gubernatorial
race translates for a state
which tense to be a shoe
leather, up close and personal
affair?
>> That remains to be seen.
We'll know that on the night of
the 4th, August 4th, lex is
coming up in less than two
weeks.
I started my campaign in October
of last year.
Much before row covid and what
that allowed me do was to go
visit people, talk with people,
we had small gatherings.
Lots of conversation, and, yes,
people remember me.
People remembered me from the
gubernatorial campaign and often
tell me that I voted for you.
I wanted you to be the governor.
And I am voting for you again.
37,000 people voted for me, you
know, I edged out by a few
thousand over Gretchen whitner
in that Democratic primary in
2018 for the governor's race.
>> Dr. Shri, the president says
he's sending some federal folks
in to help fight violent crime
in Detroit.
Are you comfortable with that,
sir?
>> I do not like this is not the
time.
Nor do we need this helpful we
need to, you know, hands that
would locally and we are quite
capable of handle that go
locally.
I think I am -- I am comfortable
with.
We need to deal with the crime
issue, we need to deal with the
local issues, but we have an
infrastructure locally that is
quite capable of handling that.
[Speaking at the same time]
>> Go ahead, jonathan.
>> I was going to say the
million dollars question, Shri,
you spent more than $10 million
on your gubernatorial campaign.
How much are you spend on the
ground your state house race?
We know some of the most
expensive state house races Pete
in 2014 spent upwards of
$330,000 on his race, how much
do you expect to spend?
>> Not quite as much as what I
spent in the governor's race,
but it will be a few hundred
thousand dollars, yes.
>> And a lot of that went in to
the covid education.
We bought a lot of masks and we
bought a lot of hand sanitizers
and made it a point to go
deliver that to 10,000
households.
We had food, we had fruits that
we distributed.
So a lot of my expenditure this
time was not the traditional
political campaign expense but
it was more educating people
about covid helping them with
supplies, that's really what we
did.
>> There is still a feeling in
Democratic circles that you are
not a legitimate Democrat.
You remember during the governor
race I think it was the gross
point Democratic club gave you
an anti endorsement.
Told them people not to vote for
you.
What do you say to that, what
are your Democratic bona fide
are identifieds.
Would you be an ally of the
governor's if you were elected.
Would you organize in a
different way.
Would you be annual why of
organized labor.
>> Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I think people forget the
background where I came from.
You know, I grew up in poverty
it.
I grew up four sisters, a
brother and my mom and dad,
eight of us lived in a 900
square feet home that had a roof
that leaked all the time when it
rained.
And I had to mop up the floors.
We slept on the floor, we ate on
the floor.
The bathroom was 50 feet behind
the house, there was no running
water.
That's how I grew up.
People look at my wealth and
feel that I am not a Democrat
because I had later financial
success.
The core of me is the one that
understands the pain of poverty.
I understand the life and the
difficulties of raising a
family, taking care of your
parents, healthcare needs.
And my struggles then were not
different from Detroit
constituents struggle now.
The rope supporters supported me
back then and are supporting me
now is because they understand
my story.
But sometimes the elites look at
me as a multimillionaire and
don't think that I can be a
Democrat.
>> Dr. Shri Thanendar, do you
think people should be fined 500
bucks if they don't wear a mask?
>> It's going to be very
difficult to impose that.
And impose that, but we all need
to wear the mask.
And we all have this moral
responsibility to do that, to
protect our lives, but more
importantly, protect other
people's lives, especially the
people who are vulnerable, we
need to protect them.
And it's certainly something
that if we can enforce it, then
we should.
>> What about the people that
are not masking up, are they
unamerican or what are they?
>> I think they just need more
education.
A lot of times they don't
understand the science part of
it.
You know, especially in the
Detroit area, people live in
small quarters, evening if the
kids can recover from covid, and
elderly or somebody who is
immunocompromised play not
recover from a covid infection,
this infection is so easy to
pass to another person, so I
think sometimes the young people
do not understand the
seriousness of it.
And how it will impact an
elderly person or somebody with
immunocompromised system.
>> You don't.
[Speaking at the same time]
>> You don't say some people
think basically you are cutting
in on their freedom, if they
don't what.
To wear a mask they shouldn't
have to wear a mask.
>> This is a science issue.
We are dealing with a pandemic
and the president has made this
in to a political issue and now
Early is polarized unfortunately
something as simple as a
scientific issue, a pandemic
issue, an issue I about life and
death now suddenly became a
right issue and a left issue.
And it's unfortunate we are
dealing with not from a
scientific points of view but
with eyeology and the rest and
left.
>> Let's do a little overtime
segment and hang other, doc and
we'll be back after closed
credits please going to WKAR.org
for more of our conversation
overtime with Dr. Shri Thanendar
now run for this Michigan house,
see you after this.
>>> Producer of "Off the Record"
is made possible in part by the
following: Business leaders
from Michigan has a strategic
plan to make Michigan a top at
the point state in the nation
for jobs, personal income, and
healthy economy my L.more than
at Michigan's road to top
10.com.
For more "Off the Record."
Whiz it's WKAR.org.
Michigan public television
stations that contributed to the
production costs of "Off the
Record" with Tim Skubick.
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>> With welcome