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>>> Welcome back torque you are

guest this week say former

Democratic candidate for

governor and a current candidate

for the house.

Our lead story a bipartisan dill

deal a budget deficit.

A new deal needed on the next

one, on the O.T.R. Pam.

Jonathan, contact I and Zachary

silt in with us as get the

inside out "Off the Record."

Production of "Off the Record"

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following.

Business leaders for Michigan

has a strategic plan for make

Michigan a top 10 state in the

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top 10.com.

And now this edition of "Off the

Record" with Tim Skubick.

>> Thank you very much.

And thank you for working us in

to your schedule, joining us

here on "Off the Record" as we

continue coverage of the budget

deficit and they had a by tart

an deal at ride by the house and

senate what are the highlights

and low rights as the case may

be, Kathy.

>> It's a big deal, because it's

a big budget deficit.

Over $3 million for this fiscal

year and another $3 billion for

the next fiscal year.

One of the main things was

350 million from the rainy day

fund and they also supplemented

the budget with a bunch of money

from federal government from the

Corona relieve act instead of

cutting the budget, the State

budget of the Michigan state

police and the corrections

department by backfilled it with

the department of corrections so

there was a lot of talk of whit

her had been defunding the

police, that wasn't the case she

moved federal money in to that

to back feel it.

>> Zach.

>> And, you know, kathy is a

right, really the big thing here

was the use of the federal

money.

You are talking about a

$2.2 billion middle of the year

deficit with only a few months

left in the fiscal year.

Most of the mon it's state

spends is out the door.

It was funny because for a long

time the governor had been

saying the federal government

had to come through with more

money for the States.

She is still saying that, but

was also saying at the time

there wasn't flexibility in the

first $3 billion of cares action

or coronavirus relief funds that

the federal government said for

the states to use.

I think the governor and the

legislature decided to tell the

government we are going to see

how serious you are about it.

I know may have said they

believe this complies with all

of the federal rules, but it is

different from what was said for

a while.

And, you know, they were

basically able to backfill all

of the reduction -- not all of

it it, a rouge portion of the

reductions in state spending

with the federal coronavirus

money.

I think knowing that it the odds

the federal government will come

knocking on the door and say we

would like, you know, that

billion dollars back, please.

Is extremely unlikely,

particularly in an election

year.

Particularly in an election year

where Michigan is so important.

The other piece that really sad

out was how they handle the

additional money to schools.

Schools lost, I think,

$256 million in state spending

but are getting 512 million, if

my math is right, Hopefully have

it is, in federal cares act

spending.

So they are actually going to

get more out of this for the

reminder of the fiscal year,

$350 per pupil.

>> Yeah, I think the State, the

whitmer administration and now

this deal in concert with the

legislature has been pretty

crafty about how may have taken

advantage of federal dollars

that were available.

Of course may have not only used

the cares act money to backfill

and sort of in a strategic way,

Zach, you are right it, could be

a test case but they are sending

most of the moneys to police, to

corrections, and to schools,

which do have more costs

associated with the pandemic

than other areas of state

government.

So I think they can make a

legitimate claim, anyways, that

they are using in this money in

coronavirus-related activities.

Not simply to make found a

budget deficit.

At the same time, the State has,

and this has been more

controversial, may have avoided

huge lay offs in state

government by essentially

furloughing state employees one

day a week.

And making them eligible then

for the 600-dollar a week in

pandemic unemployment

assistance.

So the State has, again, sought

of tapped in to what federal

resources there are available to

weather this storm right now.

Tim, I don't want to get ahead

of you because this is probably

your next question, of course

the big issue now is next year.

The State has pretty muched used

up all of the 3 billion in cares

act funding got.

It's tapped the rainy day fund

there is still about 850 million

left in there.

But the State is looking another

another $3 billion deficit and

has to balance its budget by

October 1.

So if there is not more federal

money coming from congress it

sound like in the senate GOP

plan that they are working on

doesn't include initially money

for states, at least direct

assistance for states and local

governments this thing is going

to get a lot worse come

October 1.

>> Yeah, I want to get in to the

October 1 thing.

But to put a ribbon on this

thing, any tomb you come up with

a bipartisan agreement,

particularly in the current

climate where the governor and

the senate Republican leader or

not getting a long so well now I

am picking up vibrations the

speaker is upset with the

Republican leader so to rise

above that and get an agreement

is good news.

It's easy to do an agreement

with somebody else's money, they

didn't have to raise taxes.

The administration going in to

this thing was very antsy about

the Republicans coming after

this budget and taking a chance

to reduce the size of the

bureaucracy and lay off some

people and say, boy, we are

really cutting state services.

No one in TV land will feel

these cuts at all S that a fair

statement Kathy?

>> Yeah, I don't think that

there is going to be a whole lot

of angst about this particular

budget.

They were able to do that.

But you are right, on

October 1st, that's going to

be -- $3 billion is a tough nut

to crack.

And they don't have a whole lot

of avenues to explore to get rid

of that without making some

pretty drastic cuts.

>> Yeah, I --

>> Probably solved the next

one -- go ahead.

>> Yeah, well, I wish I knew the

answer to that. I really think

the key question is what does

congress do, with all the house

Democrats in the house passed a

$3 trillion that had a large sum

of money to help states and

local governments with their

budgets.

The senate Republicans and the

president turned up their nose

at that.

This was a while ago.

And now the sort of the

president and the senate

Republicans can't seem to get on

the same payment.

But to the extent that they

might be, there is a talk of a

1 trillion package that does

have money to help the schools

reopen.

But not for states generally.

So right now it seems like -- I

guess if you are the house

Democrats and you are speaker

Pelosi, you just sit back and

let the Republicans negotiate

against themselves.

The political environment is

really favoring the Democrats

right now.

The Republicans we want from

saying, well, maybe we'll do

another stimulus package to now

they are up to a trillion and

probably if you are speaker

Pelosi you just sit back and let

them twist and come up more.

Now, is that said, it's -- there

is some aid to the states here

that will make the task lot

easier.

If there isn't, and heavens

knows congress has a knack for

screwing it up and not coming

together on something.

It's a pile of trouble.

You know, 3 trillion as Kathy

said, it is a massive number for

one fiscal year to resolve.

It would -- pulled pretty much

have to have some combination of

a either, you know, massive

amount of cuts, a massive tax

increase.

Huge -- some kind of -- there is

always a accounting gag you turn

to, maybe they try one of those.

About you it will take something

extremely dramatic.

Remember, the entire general

funds of the state is only,

quote, unquote, only, about

$10 billion.

That's what you have to target

to take 30% of the budget oat at

one fell swoop would be brutal.

>> Let's keep in mind this final

decision on resolve that go

$3 billion figure will come

right on the eve of an election

and so everybody is going to be

very concerned as to how they do

on this.

On one hand if you it out the

State police and roll back

prisons and stuff like that.

That's bad politically.

But on the other hand, if you

are talking about a revenue

increase everybody goes bonkers

over that as well.

This is going to be a real test

of the leadership of these

leaders.

The two Republican leaders and

this governor as to whether they

can navigate that in a way that,

yes, there will be disagreements

but at the end of the day may

have to find a bottom line, I'll

tell you what, the federal

government is not going to send

them $3 billion.

They are going to get some

money, but it won't fill in the

entire hole.

Isn't that a fair statement,

Jonathan?

>> You are probably right.

I mean, from what we are hearing

out of senate Republicans right

now, you know, they are starting

at $0 for state government, for

state governments.

The bigger issue, let's pull

back a second state government

financing obviously a huge deal,

but there is also a lot of other

issues tied up in this congress

the package, most importantly

unemployment assistance for the

many, many people who remain

jobless during the pandemic.

That 600-dollar a week pandemic

unemployment assistance that I

mentioned expires at the end of

this week, you know, starting

next week people who certificate

for unemployment benefits won't

be able to watch for that. It's

going to be a big, big deal.

There is talk congress might

trying to do some sort of

stopgap measure on that front,

but that will be the driving

force behind get something sort

of deal done, not necessarily

state finances at this point.

>> Let's turn the page and talk

about covid.

We have not heard anything from

the governor this week.

Well, we are not told -- my

guess is she's taking time off

if I am wrong I am sure she'll

call me and tell me that I was

and I would appreciate the call.

Let's assume, Kathy.

With another 700 cases on one

day, are we getting closer to a

phase three roll back?

What's your get tell you until.

>> I think the magic number is a

thousand.

And if we get up to a thousand

and maybe even 800 or 900 I

think that we'll see that indoor

dining will end again.

There are many things that she

can do I don't know about if

northern Michigan and the upper

peninsula, those numbers haven't

gone up too much.

Northern Michigan may have in

spots.

There are just these little

pockets that keep happening and

until order to -- in order to

get rid of -- to get tamp those

down, they are going to have to

do some -- some things about

gatherings and it's the indoor

dining that type of thing that I

think if we see anything that's

what we will see.

>> Zach, what does your gut tell

you?

>> You know, it's -- because the

governor has been stridently

resistent to putting numbers or

metrics on what creates that

Remember holes for certain

actions, I really don't know

what -- it seems like there is

sort of an amalgamation of

numbers and sense of the

situation and advice that goes

in to what she decides to do.

I think -- a thousand cases,

yes.

I think, though, there have

would to be starting to be a bit

of a crew from the hospitals

that they are starting to see

capacity diminish.

You know, I think if the

governor were to move the State

back to phase three or, you

know, where people can't gee to

the office again and indoor

dining is shutdown, and it would

mean definitively no in person

schooling and a whole host of

other restrictions, I think it

will be easier to make the case

for that if the hospitals are

showing capacity concerns in the

parts of the State where she

feels she needs to do that.

If it's just more cases but

these tend to be the

asymptomatic folks and the

hospital capacity seems to be

not a problem, that will be more

challenging because that, of

course, is the big reason for

the shutdown in the beginning,

was the concern about

overrunning the hospitals, the

need to flatten the curve.

And so forth.

You know, the governor, she has

her phase plan, but she's

deviated from that constantly

to, you know, suit whatever she

feels is needed at that moment.

She's clearly resistent,

understandably, to rolling it

back.

So I think it's probably going

to have to get a fair amount

worse than we are seeing right

now.

>> All right.

Let's call in our guest right

now.

Somebody's name you know

thousand pronounce now after

that bundle of money that he's

getting.

Are you there, my friend?

>> I am here, Tim, good morning,

how are you?

>> Good.

We are doing well.

Have you missed us, sir?

>> Oh, absolutely.

I missed you.

When I first came on your show I

was -- people warned me Tim is a

veteran, all of them are

veterans and I was a chemist, I

was new to the political scene.

And examine I came on your show

against the advice against some

of my well wishers.

>> Goodness, gracious, obviously

you shot those people because

here you are, this morning.

>> Gentlemen.

>> Jonathan start us off, okay.

Jonathan.

>> Yeah.

You ran a state campaign in

2018, you are now running for a

state house seat in Detroit.

What did you learn from your

2018 race and how are you

applying those lessons to your

state house race?

>> Well, you know, I travel all

across Michigan, had a chance to

speak with a lot of my

constituents learn about the

issues and learn about the

process.

I am a small business owner, 25,

30 years being a serial

entrepreneur, running my own

company as a CEO is different

than from being in a political

environment, but I like the

experience, it was exciting.

It was something that I learn a

lot.

And I realize that I have a

passion for it.

More than just doing God for my

familiar family, it's a chance

for to make an impact on the

entire state and now under the

current situation you know, make

a statement make an impact on my

district.

>> Shri, you've got eight -- I

think it's eight candidates in

your race.

And in this pandemic, it's hard

to breakthrough.

What types of things are you

doing to try to connect with

voters who maybe didn't know you

that well even though you ran

for governor?

>> Well, we use a lot of

mailings, we sent about eight or

10 different mailers.

We also use this opportunity to

talk about covid.

So several of our mailers had

nothing do with politics, but we

were evening indicating people

about covid.

We also have some door knockers,

we went and hang material on

people's door informing them

about covid.

Because as you know, Kathy,

covid disproportionately

impacted the African American

community, disproportionately

affected the resident of

Detroit.

And we took upon ourselves to

educate and some of our mailers

as big as 20,000, that we mailed

out across our district

educating people and we did that

through phones and some to some

extent by door knocking.

>> Shri, do you find that people

remember you from the governor's

race?

You made the decision to move to

Detroit, and run there where you

did win the city and the

Democratic primarily in 2018,,

down find they were remembering

you?

Do you think your success in

Detroit in the gubernatorial

race translates for a state

which tense to be a shoe

leather, up close and personal

affair?

>> That remains to be seen.

We'll know that on the night of

the 4th, August 4th, lex is

coming up in less than two

weeks.

I started my campaign in October

of last year.

Much before row covid and what

that allowed me do was to go

visit people, talk with people,

we had small gatherings.

Lots of conversation, and, yes,

people remember me.

People remembered me from the

gubernatorial campaign and often

tell me that I voted for you.

I wanted you to be the governor.

And I am voting for you again.

37,000 people voted for me, you

know, I edged out by a few

thousand over Gretchen whitner

in that Democratic primary in

2018 for the governor's race.

>> Dr. Shri, the president says

he's sending some federal folks

in to help fight violent crime

in Detroit.

Are you comfortable with that,

sir?

>> I do not like this is not the

time.

Nor do we need this helpful we

need to, you know, hands that

would locally and we are quite

capable of handle that go

locally.

I think I am -- I am comfortable

with.

We need to deal with the crime

issue, we need to deal with the

local issues, but we have an

infrastructure locally that is

quite capable of handling that.

[Speaking at the same time]

>> Go ahead, jonathan.

>> I was going to say the

million dollars question, Shri,

you spent more than $10 million

on your gubernatorial campaign.

How much are you spend on the

ground your state house race?

We know some of the most

expensive state house races Pete

in 2014 spent upwards of

$330,000 on his race, how much

do you expect to spend?

>> Not quite as much as what I

spent in the governor's race,

but it will be a few hundred

thousand dollars, yes.

>> And a lot of that went in to

the covid education.

We bought a lot of masks and we

bought a lot of hand sanitizers

and made it a point to go

deliver that to 10,000

households.

We had food, we had fruits that

we distributed.

So a lot of my expenditure this

time was not the traditional

political campaign expense but

it was more educating people

about covid helping them with

supplies, that's really what we

did.

>> There is still a feeling in

Democratic circles that you are

not a legitimate Democrat.

You remember during the governor

race I think it was the gross

point Democratic club gave you

an anti endorsement.

Told them people not to vote for

you.

What do you say to that, what

are your Democratic bona fide

are identifieds.

Would you be an ally of the

governor's if you were elected.

Would you organize in a

different way.

Would you be annual why of

organized labor.

>> Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I think people forget the

background where I came from.

You know, I grew up in poverty

it.

I grew up four sisters, a

brother and my mom and dad,

eight of us lived in a 900

square feet home that had a roof

that leaked all the time when it

rained.

And I had to mop up the floors.

We slept on the floor, we ate on

the floor.

The bathroom was 50 feet behind

the house, there was no running

water.

That's how I grew up.

People look at my wealth and

feel that I am not a Democrat

because I had later financial

success.

The core of me is the one that

understands the pain of poverty.

I understand the life and the

difficulties of raising a

family, taking care of your

parents, healthcare needs.

And my struggles then were not

different from Detroit

constituents struggle now.

The rope supporters supported me

back then and are supporting me

now is because they understand

my story.

But sometimes the elites look at

me as a multimillionaire and

don't think that I can be a

Democrat.

>> Dr. Shri Thanendar, do you

think people should be fined 500

bucks if they don't wear a mask?

>> It's going to be very

difficult to impose that.

And impose that, but we all need

to wear the mask.

And we all have this moral

responsibility to do that, to

protect our lives, but more

importantly, protect other

people's lives, especially the

people who are vulnerable, we

need to protect them.

And it's certainly something

that if we can enforce it, then

we should.

>> What about the people that

are not masking up, are they

unamerican or what are they?

>> I think they just need more

education.

A lot of times they don't

understand the science part of

it.

You know, especially in the

Detroit area, people live in

small quarters, evening if the

kids can recover from covid, and

elderly or somebody who is

immunocompromised play not

recover from a covid infection,

this infection is so easy to

pass to another person, so I

think sometimes the young people

do not understand the

seriousness of it.

And how it will impact an

elderly person or somebody with

immunocompromised system.

>> You don't.

[Speaking at the same time]

>> You don't say some people

think basically you are cutting

in on their freedom, if they

don't what.

To wear a mask they shouldn't

have to wear a mask.

>> This is a science issue.

We are dealing with a pandemic

and the president has made this

in to a political issue and now

Early is polarized unfortunately

something as simple as a

scientific issue, a pandemic

issue, an issue I about life and

death now suddenly became a

right issue and a left issue.

And it's unfortunate we are

dealing with not from a

scientific points of view but

with eyeology and the rest and

left.

>> Let's do a little overtime

segment and hang other, doc and

we'll be back after closed

credits please going to WKAR.org

for more of our conversation

overtime with Dr. Shri Thanendar

now run for this Michigan house,

see you after this.

>>> Producer of "Off the Record"

is made possible in part by the

following: Business leaders

from Michigan has a strategic

plan to make Michigan a top at

the point state in the nation

for jobs, personal income, and

healthy economy my L.more than

at Michigan's road to top

10.com.

For more "Off the Record."

Whiz it's WKAR.org.

Michigan public television

stations that contributed to the

production costs of "Off the

Record" with Tim Skubick.

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>> With welcome