>> welcome back.

Our guest this week is the

Senate Democratic leader.

Our lead story the state is

pouring billions into updating

the state sagging

infrastructure.

on the panel we have Jonathan

Emily and Zachary.

Sitting with us as we get the

inside out off the record.

>> production is made possible

in part by Martin Wehmeier a

full-service strategic

communications agency partnering

with clients or public

relations, digital marketing,

and public policy engagement.

Learn more at Martin Whitmire

.com.

>> thank you and welcome to week

two in the studio.

How does it feel?

>> fantastic pair >> a

wonderful.

>> it beats Zoom.

Speaking of, the Michigan

legislature ended up spending a

bunch of your money let's see

where it's going.

The Michigan legislature has

agreed to pump $4.8 billion to

repairing the states of World

War II sagging infrastructure.

In the industry to do the work

is more than happy to gobble up

the box appear >> it will

enthuse a lot of money into our

infrastructure in Michigan and

the contractors are happy.

>> and the state will spend the

$317 million on the road and

bridge repairs, 450 million to

spruce up the park and trail

systems, 250 million to expand

broadband in remote areas of the

state, and from motorists trying

to navigate flooded freeways

another 66 million to be for

pumping stations plus, to avoid

another Flint invented Harbor

lead water crisis $1.7 billion

for leadpipe removals.

>> there's a lot of money for

lead service line replacements.

I hope communities are advanced

enough to look into that issue

and spend the money to replace

their lead lines before you get

into a situation like Flint and

Benton Harbor.

>> it's one thing to allocate

the money and and another to

find the bodies to do the work

the industry says bring it.

>> the industry has been a

tremendous job of hiring over

the pass several years you have

a lot of companies that are

willing to come back to Michigan

and bring their crews back to

Michigan.

>> in this election year the

governor and the two legislative

leaders set aside political

differences with the moment iron

out this package which would

break all records for state

spending on infrastructure

needs.

>> Emily, this was an early

Christmas for the legislature in

this election year right?

>> absolutely and it has all the

hallmarks of an effective good

compromise.

Everyone got a little bit of

something that they can bring

back to their district and

Witmer got a little bit more for

roads but could help her bolster

the impression that she is done

things for roads in her four

years for office her signature

campaign promise of course, any

your people in home things like

help poor sewage, septic, all

the underground stuff we don't

think about.

>> broadband.

>> you have people like Jim who

can bring home damn assistance

for places like Midland, really

it does look like a lot of

winning.

>> yes.

This is a I mean the biggest

deal here I think is the water

infrastructure funding.

It is not just Levitt --

leadpipe replacement as we spoke

about but stormwater systems as

you said in the intro, we have

World War II era stormwater

systems.

That really are a problem in

many communities across the

state and this will make a big

difference and it so that is

something as Emily said that

lawmakers in every part of the

state can tout that.

Witmer can tout it is part of

the campaign pledge to focus on

clean water and Kumbaya moment.

We haven't had a lot of those

lately.

>> how long have we been talking

about the desperate state of the

water and infrastructure

underground?

The combined sewage overflows

with the storm water goes into

the same pipe as a sewage and

empties into rivers when there's

heavy rain?

It has to be 20 to 25 years and

the problem was always the

number was so staggering to make

a dent know one knew what to do

and then all of a sudden there

was an incredible Federal

adjustment that materialized and

relayed to everyone's credit

they all seem to say this is the

moment we can actually do

something and what is it?

Twelve to 3 billion going into

water and sewer?

It won't fix everything but it

will make a huge difference.

>> that is an important note.

This is a one time and money for

road and water infrastructure

and the governor had his

commissions that look at these

issues and he said billions per

year.

>> 3.2 billion per year.

>> a huge chunk of change and no

doubt but it won't solve all of

the state's problems appear >>

what makes it such a big win and

I think is this is all of the

unsexy as parts of

infrastructure.

You look at something like roads

of course it is a campaign

slogan everyone sees that but no

one sees the wastewater system

degrading.

No one sees that they have pipes

that are pushing 100 years old

in that need fixing but really,

this is a one time into

something that wasn't going to

be politically popular to raise

taxes it was a one time influx

of Federal funding it's a big

help in that regard.

>> Tom was really a reluctant

participant but they dangled a

new road project in front of him

that brought him on board.

That's how this game is there

was a games as you saw there was

infrastructure priority grants

which is a fancy way of saying

the legislature will decide what

roads get fixed not letter MDOT

which is what usually happens

and so that is all part of

assembling the vote and this

went through overwhelmingly only

a smattering of a no vote but

another big backlog is to State

park at a local park

infrastructure.

This is another one where

Michigan, we talk about treasure

the outdoors, towards him a huge

asset, for a lot of time a lot

of the state part infrastructure

has been degrading and was

helped a few years ago for that

put new revenue into the system

but you don't fix 30 to 40 years

of backlog maintenance

overnight.

It's another 250 million for the

state and another for parks and

trails but this is a chance for

the state to really double down

in one of its big assets.

>> and let's not forget what

help increased the skids here.

I don't know what it is but it's

important to farmers and a lot

of them wanted help but there is

a big money to help fund this in

Michigan.

>> if there was a problem now

the citizenry has now been

raised that this will be done

tomorrow it's not quite how it

works contracts have to be let.

And it has to be out there but

it's a huge down payment.

>> we got over this hump because

it's a good thing there is a bit

of a giant influx of cash over

all the prices that we pay could

go up a bit.

We talk about.

There were lead lines that have

increased but I think there is

enough wiggle room with some of

these investments that the fact

that they can happen over a

period of time would be a good

thing financial aid.

>> the question is, Mo, from

this agreement transferring it

to the budget which is still

pending as they go on.

>> I think they can.

I think they can.

It seems like this group that

they have right now with the new

budget director previous budget

director did a fine job as well

but they have Chris Harkins who

knows the terrain from the

legislature as the governor's

budget director and

Representative Albert they had a

few bumps last year.

This year as well.

>> they found a way to come to

agreement on some of these

things.

You didn't see some of the games

like one side sends over a bunch

of stuff that love is it knows

the other side is hates.

That didn't really happen this

time.

But I think they can of course

at the tax piece is the most

difficult to work through

because everyone has their own

ideas this supplemental budget

and last year's budget when you

have this much money to go

around don't believe the old

song that sometimes the surplus

is as difficult as the deficit.

Nope you have enough money for

everybody to get something here

and I think they need to know to

get out and campaign.

There are incumbents as

districts have been torn up by

redistricting there's not a

secure is they used to be

obviously the governor will go

out to run for reelection no one

wants to be trapped in Lansing

to the Summer with a very big

primary in August.

>> speaking of down payments,

this is a down payment of

goodwill frankly.

We saw everyone get a press

release on this the governor's

office in you know some saying

here is my budget proposal ideas

for my budget/what is actualized

in the supplemental and so

everyone got depressed out of

this.

>> the government was taking as

victory lap this week on this

agreement with the Republicans

of the legislature.

There was polling data that came

out that if you are sitting in

the executive office and you

looked at it the question was

the people said if the election

was held today would you go for

Gretchen Witmer or someone else

and guess who won?

Somebody else with 59 percent

the governor had 34 percent.

Make those numbers what you will

if anything.

>> I mean it's not something you

want to hear obviously if you

are the governor's campaign.

>> I called it out.

>> yes something else pulls I

don't think it tell us a lot but

you know when the governor --

other polling has happened head

head-to-head against some of

these top Republican nominees

and she fared better so when you

put her up against a real

candidate the numbers will

change but we were talking

before that the approval numbers

are actually poll 51 to

41 percent and so above much

better than that President Joe

Biden so she is doing better

than the Democratic -- the vague

Democratic figure that you might

put up against her.

>> I don't think it is an out

moment for the reasons Jonathan

said that mythical someone else

always outperforms an incumbent

in polls I think we spoke about

this yesterday as like the

backup quarterback, the unseen

is always better than what's out

there on the that being said,

the regions for the governor to

be concerned about real action

are they regardless of one pole

or another she has a president

of her party in the White house

who is pretty and and popular

and has not been able to seem to

turn it around and you can see

all the moves she's been making

really for the last 14 months

have been tacking back toward

the center even a little right

of center and there is a

governor who is campaigning on

tax cuts at this point which is

not the typical Democratic

posture and she is trying to do

a lot of things to move away

from some of the messaging that

she had the first three years of

her administration so there are

still reasons for concern but I

don't think this poll is one of

them.

>> I'm going to try to justify

this and change your mind it.

It is an ouch moment because

this is a fair question to ask

but politically it is

exploitable.

The Republicans will take this

and try to confuse the

electorate they will not make

the point that running against

another person is different than

not a person.

And so I do think this -- look,

is it damaging?

Does it destroy the campaign?

It does not but it's one

horrible at the Republicans will

take in fire at her and she will

have to defend it so far the

executive office has been

crickets on this poll.

>> I've already seen the press

release from the Republicans

that you're talking about.

>> they could hardly wait.

>> obviously I think any number

you can point to to say the

incumbent is a week will be an

advantage for Republicans but

Republicans are struggling --

the factors that are not an easy

head-to-head to do in a poll

right now, the fact that they

feel it so broadly, and so

scattered frankly across the

card.

There's no front runner that I

see at this moment but it should

be a way bigger concern to them

than the 59 percent number.

>> theoretically the polling

number help Republican

candidates say I have a chance

here.

Fund to come give me donations,

but as Emily mentioned, there is

no real clear front runner in

this about the donor class

rattling around them at this

point it was James Craig early

but that seemed to have slowed

down significantly.

We have some funding that we

don't seem to need.

The impact of Apple will be

limited.

The GOP has plenty of ammunition

are talking points to go after

the governor beyond that pole.

>> let's make it unanimous, and

we believe that Mr. Cragg is no

longer the front runner?

>> I agree he is not the front

runner.

I agree with Emily, there is no

front runner right now.

>> is an amazing or not?

We're sitting here.

>> it is surprising.

>> because look, James Greg got

into the race with a lot of

fanfare last Summer and a lot of

institutional Republicans were

singing his praises one of them

was Mike who endorsed tutor

Dixon which I think was telling

of crag is disappointed so far

as Jonathan said as of the end

of the last year he was

developing a pretty serious

financial problem he will have

to demonstrate that he can keep

its campaign afloat financially

and the rest of them are just a

bunch of unknowns who either

have no money or are hoping

their self funding will convince

people to like them.

>> and the Democrats could not

be happier.

>> absolutely.

I think we have a lot of moment

to witness in the rubble can

field frankly I think there are

a bucket of Republican

candidates were competing for

the Trump endorsement and if

they don't get it we could see

them fade away.

>> James Craig is still the

candidate the Democrats are most

afraid of but, will he win the

nomination?

That remains to be seen.

>> let's call it I guess the

Senate Democratic leader.

Senator, welcome to this program

is good to see you via Zoom.

Are you doing okay?

>> I am great.

You popular legislation this

week to pause the sales tax at

the sales tax to but the Speaker

of the house is against this so

this is dead right sometimes it

takes the house longer to come

to where this starts so there is

still time to convince them that

instead of having to back the

roads you don't have to back

them anything we can give a

relief to people and I think I

can still convince them.

I hope I can and if not, then

let's keep trying to find common

ground on something else.

>> the speaker called you this

weekend and said Mr. Leader, if

you will roll back our income

tax rate I will give you your

sales tax cut and you do what?

>> I would say, >> why are you

laughing?

Why are you laughing?

>> if we cut taxes too much we

could lose in Federal resources,

and I would be happy to trade it

for the pension tax if that is

what he wanted to do.

>> but not income tax?

>> nope I just don't think that

is what is the most prudent

thing.

I don't think people are asking

for it.

I would prefer to see us do some

real significant relief at the

pump because that is where

inflation is hitting people the

hardest and you know, if they're

not willing to do that that's

fine I talk to people every day

I know where people are

struggling and if they haven't

figured it out yet I will give

them time to come to this

conclusion I've come was

already.

>> Senator, why are you more

comfortable look for going a

sales tax revenue which of

course benefits largely K-12

public schools as opposed to

suspending the fuel tax which is

solely for roads.

In the pass with the idea of

lifting the sales tax off of

gasoline has come up the big cry

has come from public schools and

local governments who benefit

from this but you're taking away

a huge part of our revenue.

>> I was a teacher before I

came.

My proposal wouldn't cut schools

but I like my proposal better

because the gas tax one is

dedicated to fix roads.

Our bonding could be in jeopardy

but also you have to back that

because everyone acknowledges

that the roads are falling apart

even the governor has made huge

strides to improve them there

still a long way to go.

Because we did this budget in

October gas was at $2.80 and

it's been over $3.50 for months

and it's been over $4 for quite

some time now and because of

that, because of the large

amount gas in -- is they have

received they were budgeted for

and then some.

And so mine would need to do

that.

But they are shipped to come up

at $750 million for roads and I

would rather use that money for

something else.

>> you are flint because you are

from Flint you look bit

interested in this underground

water structure for a long time.

In your mind what's the biggest

win from the piece of

legislation you passed recently

and then supplemental?

>> you covered a lot of it and I

could not agree more.

I think the underground

investment in water and sewer is

critical.

It's a great start toward the

amount of work that we need to

do long term to make these

improvements.

Having lived the Flint water

crisis in one of the highest in

ZIP Codes for concentration of

lead I am more than most people

knowing what it's like to be

afraid for your family and

dealing with the Benton Harbor

and this will be something that

happens all across the state

because we are an older state

with as mentioned mentioned,

World War II sort of the time

frame for a lot of the pipes

being put we will have this

issue across the state and if we

could make major investments

while move -- removing the

dangerous pipes from the ground

I think that's a great point but

I also like the parks and the

number of other things in there

as well at it in the road

investments will be helpful.

>> obviously a lot of folks want

to get the budget done by Summer

break but at the same time, the

tax issue seems to be a real

sticking point still.

Could just last week we had a

Kumbaya moment just last week

Republicans were accusing war on

family.

But you introduced your sales

tax on gas legislation this week

but give us an inside look,

where are the talks?

Where is there actually room for

compromise?

And how close is it actually

happening?

>> I do not think we are that

close yet and I have not been

able to determine if sending tax

cuts the governor won't sign is

a campaign tactic or something

they really want to get to a

compromise on I think we have

billions of dollars in surplus,

you know you can look at it as

our money or you can say we took

too much in for families and we

could give it back.

There's a number of ways to do

it.

The sales tax pause is a great

way to do it as that would

direct checks to than giving .2

to 3 percent points -- .2 to

3 percent cut to income that

most families wouldn't even see

or receive $75 per year if you

give direct checks now that we

have inflation.

That's a much more impactful way

to do it so there are ways to

get a compromise or not there is

an actual political decision

being made or if it is about

families.

If it's about helping families

and willing to join but if it's

about politics then it's just

politics.

I'd rather help families but

it's politics I couldn't do that

as well.

>> and issue the legislator

wanted to take up for spring or

Summer break was was ethics.

Of course the house is already

pass a full budget ethics

reforms bills, they have

introduced more house Democrats

are calling for investigation

into Lee Chatfield, where our

Senate Democrats?

Why are you guys doing the

stuff?

>> we have been consistently

talking about this over the term

and it's something I believe is

important.

Code on the show actually pushed

across the table my tax return

at one time.

And willing to lead with my --

on these issues.

I think personal finance

exposure is critical.

People have a right to know if

her voting on things I think

ethics is long overdue.

I that Senator Broome and Erwin

are putting in creating a

bicameral evenly based ethical

committee.

I would love to see that.

We could do that now.

It's really the Republican

leadership that's holding it up

and I'm willing to do at any

point in time.

I spoke about this so much over

the last -- that's probably the

old guy being around almost ten

years, I've been calling for

this and cosponsoring it for ten

years.

I'm not banging the drum because

I think the public has to start

bringing the drum or it will

never get done.

>> how >> to argue about taking

back control of the Michigan

Senate do to redistricting?

>> it's a great chance.

The maps are the first chance

with had in 40 years that are

not gerrymandered and I think it

will be our year of the national

environment isn't too bad I

think it's ours to lose and I

plan to do whatever we can to

make sure we win.

To give me your number?

How many seats?

>> we have 19 seats in the base

numbers.

We have 23 top-notch candidates.

I will dance around this as long

as you let me.

I will be the best I can.

I have a real serious path to

get the majority.

Think in your biggest fear is

that Joe Biden will cause you

trouble the Senate.

>> his numbers are improving the

war I think the policies will

start -- Democratic policy

sometimes take longer to serve

the public.

Use with they leave every time

Republican presidency when they

leave they leave us with the

best to take us a while to fix

it and hopefully some of that

stuff will come together by the

Summer and we will be in good

shape.

But the governor I think we'll

be the top.

She will lead us with her coat

tails and I think that we will

have a decent November.

>> what percentage do you think

you need from Governor Witmer to

give your candidates a chance to

get to the 20 seat minimum

needed for majority?

>> I think we can get to 19 if

she just wins the 452 to 53

range for sure because a better

match ups.

With her candidates and mean it

you look at our top 23

candidates and we have all

starts from top the bottom.

This is the first time I didn't

have to pull rod to everything I

could and blow peoples want to

get them to run for Senate.

Everyone wants to run and they

want to be in our team and I

don't blame them they want it to

be a good year.

>> do you think the

redistricting and the

possibility of actual majority

shook some people lose?

>> I do think that is a good

part of it.

When you draw maps fairly

Democrats get more votes from

the state legislature.

We just do.

They just had the maps drawn so

poorly or so in their figure for

so long that want to see that

they can win and they should win

the senator said after the mask

came out the commission I think

I will try to quote them

basically said commission

clearly drew a democratic

gerrymandered.

I don't think by any stretch of

any definition that is if you

draw maps that are slightly more

favorable to Democrats because

that where people vote than you

could tell they are afraid

because they have only ran in

really safe districts where they

had a majority before the

election started to.

Now they have to go out and talk

to people and a lot of these

values don't line up to people

are at.

>> were getting to an overtime

segment before that, you are a

lame duck right now and do you

want to be part of the Witmer

administration if she gets

reelected?

>> if not I hope I can get a

good word it with tutor Dixon.

>> was that an answer?

I missed it if it was in there.

>> I haven't decided.

281 days, I could take a break

and relax and just watch this

show without having to worry

about what I may say or do that

gets me in trouble with my press

secretary.

>> okay or not off the hook yet

so stay tuned for overtime.

We will be our website for more

over time with the Senator.

>> production of off the record

is made possible by Martin

Wehmeier of full-service

strategic communications agency

partnering with clients to

public relations, digital

marketing and public policy

engagement.

Learn more at Martin whenMeyer

.com.

>> for more off the visit w K A

R .org.

[MUSIC PLAYING].