>> welcome back.
Our guest this week is the
Senate Democratic leader.
Our lead story the state is
pouring billions into updating
the state sagging
infrastructure.
on the panel we have Jonathan
Emily and Zachary.
Sitting with us as we get the
inside out off the record.
>> production is made possible
in part by Martin Wehmeier a
full-service strategic
communications agency partnering
with clients or public
relations, digital marketing,
and public policy engagement.
Learn more at Martin Whitmire
.com.
>> thank you and welcome to week
two in the studio.
How does it feel?
>> fantastic pair >> a
wonderful.
>> it beats Zoom.
Speaking of, the Michigan
legislature ended up spending a
bunch of your money let's see
where it's going.
The Michigan legislature has
agreed to pump $4.8 billion to
repairing the states of World
War II sagging infrastructure.
In the industry to do the work
is more than happy to gobble up
the box appear >> it will
enthuse a lot of money into our
infrastructure in Michigan and
the contractors are happy.
>> and the state will spend the
$317 million on the road and
bridge repairs, 450 million to
spruce up the park and trail
systems, 250 million to expand
broadband in remote areas of the
state, and from motorists trying
to navigate flooded freeways
another 66 million to be for
pumping stations plus, to avoid
another Flint invented Harbor
lead water crisis $1.7 billion
for leadpipe removals.
>> there's a lot of money for
lead service line replacements.
I hope communities are advanced
enough to look into that issue
and spend the money to replace
their lead lines before you get
into a situation like Flint and
Benton Harbor.
>> it's one thing to allocate
the money and and another to
find the bodies to do the work
the industry says bring it.
>> the industry has been a
tremendous job of hiring over
the pass several years you have
a lot of companies that are
willing to come back to Michigan
and bring their crews back to
Michigan.
>> in this election year the
governor and the two legislative
leaders set aside political
differences with the moment iron
out this package which would
break all records for state
spending on infrastructure
needs.
>> Emily, this was an early
Christmas for the legislature in
this election year right?
>> absolutely and it has all the
hallmarks of an effective good
compromise.
Everyone got a little bit of
something that they can bring
back to their district and
Witmer got a little bit more for
roads but could help her bolster
the impression that she is done
things for roads in her four
years for office her signature
campaign promise of course, any
your people in home things like
help poor sewage, septic, all
the underground stuff we don't
think about.
>> broadband.
>> you have people like Jim who
can bring home damn assistance
for places like Midland, really
it does look like a lot of
winning.
>> yes.
This is a I mean the biggest
deal here I think is the water
infrastructure funding.
It is not just Levitt --
leadpipe replacement as we spoke
about but stormwater systems as
you said in the intro, we have
World War II era stormwater
systems.
That really are a problem in
many communities across the
state and this will make a big
difference and it so that is
something as Emily said that
lawmakers in every part of the
state can tout that.
Witmer can tout it is part of
the campaign pledge to focus on
clean water and Kumbaya moment.
We haven't had a lot of those
lately.
>> how long have we been talking
about the desperate state of the
water and infrastructure
underground?
The combined sewage overflows
with the storm water goes into
the same pipe as a sewage and
empties into rivers when there's
heavy rain?
It has to be 20 to 25 years and
the problem was always the
number was so staggering to make
a dent know one knew what to do
and then all of a sudden there
was an incredible Federal
adjustment that materialized and
relayed to everyone's credit
they all seem to say this is the
moment we can actually do
something and what is it?
Twelve to 3 billion going into
water and sewer?
It won't fix everything but it
will make a huge difference.
>> that is an important note.
This is a one time and money for
road and water infrastructure
and the governor had his
commissions that look at these
issues and he said billions per
year.
>> 3.2 billion per year.
>> a huge chunk of change and no
doubt but it won't solve all of
the state's problems appear >>
what makes it such a big win and
I think is this is all of the
unsexy as parts of
infrastructure.
You look at something like roads
of course it is a campaign
slogan everyone sees that but no
one sees the wastewater system
degrading.
No one sees that they have pipes
that are pushing 100 years old
in that need fixing but really,
this is a one time into
something that wasn't going to
be politically popular to raise
taxes it was a one time influx
of Federal funding it's a big
help in that regard.
>> Tom was really a reluctant
participant but they dangled a
new road project in front of him
that brought him on board.
That's how this game is there
was a games as you saw there was
infrastructure priority grants
which is a fancy way of saying
the legislature will decide what
roads get fixed not letter MDOT
which is what usually happens
and so that is all part of
assembling the vote and this
went through overwhelmingly only
a smattering of a no vote but
another big backlog is to State
park at a local park
infrastructure.
This is another one where
Michigan, we talk about treasure
the outdoors, towards him a huge
asset, for a lot of time a lot
of the state part infrastructure
has been degrading and was
helped a few years ago for that
put new revenue into the system
but you don't fix 30 to 40 years
of backlog maintenance
overnight.
It's another 250 million for the
state and another for parks and
trails but this is a chance for
the state to really double down
in one of its big assets.
>> and let's not forget what
help increased the skids here.
I don't know what it is but it's
important to farmers and a lot
of them wanted help but there is
a big money to help fund this in
Michigan.
>> if there was a problem now
the citizenry has now been
raised that this will be done
tomorrow it's not quite how it
works contracts have to be let.
And it has to be out there but
it's a huge down payment.
>> we got over this hump because
it's a good thing there is a bit
of a giant influx of cash over
all the prices that we pay could
go up a bit.
We talk about.
There were lead lines that have
increased but I think there is
enough wiggle room with some of
these investments that the fact
that they can happen over a
period of time would be a good
thing financial aid.
>> the question is, Mo, from
this agreement transferring it
to the budget which is still
pending as they go on.
>> I think they can.
I think they can.
It seems like this group that
they have right now with the new
budget director previous budget
director did a fine job as well
but they have Chris Harkins who
knows the terrain from the
legislature as the governor's
budget director and
Representative Albert they had a
few bumps last year.
This year as well.
>> they found a way to come to
agreement on some of these
things.
You didn't see some of the games
like one side sends over a bunch
of stuff that love is it knows
the other side is hates.
That didn't really happen this
time.
But I think they can of course
at the tax piece is the most
difficult to work through
because everyone has their own
ideas this supplemental budget
and last year's budget when you
have this much money to go
around don't believe the old
song that sometimes the surplus
is as difficult as the deficit.
Nope you have enough money for
everybody to get something here
and I think they need to know to
get out and campaign.
There are incumbents as
districts have been torn up by
redistricting there's not a
secure is they used to be
obviously the governor will go
out to run for reelection no one
wants to be trapped in Lansing
to the Summer with a very big
primary in August.
>> speaking of down payments,
this is a down payment of
goodwill frankly.
We saw everyone get a press
release on this the governor's
office in you know some saying
here is my budget proposal ideas
for my budget/what is actualized
in the supplemental and so
everyone got depressed out of
this.
>> the government was taking as
victory lap this week on this
agreement with the Republicans
of the legislature.
There was polling data that came
out that if you are sitting in
the executive office and you
looked at it the question was
the people said if the election
was held today would you go for
Gretchen Witmer or someone else
and guess who won?
Somebody else with 59 percent
the governor had 34 percent.
Make those numbers what you will
if anything.
>> I mean it's not something you
want to hear obviously if you
are the governor's campaign.
>> I called it out.
>> yes something else pulls I
don't think it tell us a lot but
you know when the governor --
other polling has happened head
head-to-head against some of
these top Republican nominees
and she fared better so when you
put her up against a real
candidate the numbers will
change but we were talking
before that the approval numbers
are actually poll 51 to
41 percent and so above much
better than that President Joe
Biden so she is doing better
than the Democratic -- the vague
Democratic figure that you might
put up against her.
>> I don't think it is an out
moment for the reasons Jonathan
said that mythical someone else
always outperforms an incumbent
in polls I think we spoke about
this yesterday as like the
backup quarterback, the unseen
is always better than what's out
there on the that being said,
the regions for the governor to
be concerned about real action
are they regardless of one pole
or another she has a president
of her party in the White house
who is pretty and and popular
and has not been able to seem to
turn it around and you can see
all the moves she's been making
really for the last 14 months
have been tacking back toward
the center even a little right
of center and there is a
governor who is campaigning on
tax cuts at this point which is
not the typical Democratic
posture and she is trying to do
a lot of things to move away
from some of the messaging that
she had the first three years of
her administration so there are
still reasons for concern but I
don't think this poll is one of
them.
>> I'm going to try to justify
this and change your mind it.
It is an ouch moment because
this is a fair question to ask
but politically it is
exploitable.
The Republicans will take this
and try to confuse the
electorate they will not make
the point that running against
another person is different than
not a person.
And so I do think this -- look,
is it damaging?
Does it destroy the campaign?
It does not but it's one
horrible at the Republicans will
take in fire at her and she will
have to defend it so far the
executive office has been
crickets on this poll.
>> I've already seen the press
release from the Republicans
that you're talking about.
>> they could hardly wait.
>> obviously I think any number
you can point to to say the
incumbent is a week will be an
advantage for Republicans but
Republicans are struggling --
the factors that are not an easy
head-to-head to do in a poll
right now, the fact that they
feel it so broadly, and so
scattered frankly across the
card.
There's no front runner that I
see at this moment but it should
be a way bigger concern to them
than the 59 percent number.
>> theoretically the polling
number help Republican
candidates say I have a chance
here.
Fund to come give me donations,
but as Emily mentioned, there is
no real clear front runner in
this about the donor class
rattling around them at this
point it was James Craig early
but that seemed to have slowed
down significantly.
We have some funding that we
don't seem to need.
The impact of Apple will be
limited.
The GOP has plenty of ammunition
are talking points to go after
the governor beyond that pole.
>> let's make it unanimous, and
we believe that Mr. Cragg is no
longer the front runner?
>> I agree he is not the front
runner.
I agree with Emily, there is no
front runner right now.
>> is an amazing or not?
We're sitting here.
>> it is surprising.
>> because look, James Greg got
into the race with a lot of
fanfare last Summer and a lot of
institutional Republicans were
singing his praises one of them
was Mike who endorsed tutor
Dixon which I think was telling
of crag is disappointed so far
as Jonathan said as of the end
of the last year he was
developing a pretty serious
financial problem he will have
to demonstrate that he can keep
its campaign afloat financially
and the rest of them are just a
bunch of unknowns who either
have no money or are hoping
their self funding will convince
people to like them.
>> and the Democrats could not
be happier.
>> absolutely.
I think we have a lot of moment
to witness in the rubble can
field frankly I think there are
a bucket of Republican
candidates were competing for
the Trump endorsement and if
they don't get it we could see
them fade away.
>> James Craig is still the
candidate the Democrats are most
afraid of but, will he win the
nomination?
That remains to be seen.
>> let's call it I guess the
Senate Democratic leader.
Senator, welcome to this program
is good to see you via Zoom.
Are you doing okay?
>> I am great.
You popular legislation this
week to pause the sales tax at
the sales tax to but the Speaker
of the house is against this so
this is dead right sometimes it
takes the house longer to come
to where this starts so there is
still time to convince them that
instead of having to back the
roads you don't have to back
them anything we can give a
relief to people and I think I
can still convince them.
I hope I can and if not, then
let's keep trying to find common
ground on something else.
>> the speaker called you this
weekend and said Mr. Leader, if
you will roll back our income
tax rate I will give you your
sales tax cut and you do what?
>> I would say, >> why are you
laughing?
Why are you laughing?
>> if we cut taxes too much we
could lose in Federal resources,
and I would be happy to trade it
for the pension tax if that is
what he wanted to do.
>> but not income tax?
>> nope I just don't think that
is what is the most prudent
thing.
I don't think people are asking
for it.
I would prefer to see us do some
real significant relief at the
pump because that is where
inflation is hitting people the
hardest and you know, if they're
not willing to do that that's
fine I talk to people every day
I know where people are
struggling and if they haven't
figured it out yet I will give
them time to come to this
conclusion I've come was
already.
>> Senator, why are you more
comfortable look for going a
sales tax revenue which of
course benefits largely K-12
public schools as opposed to
suspending the fuel tax which is
solely for roads.
In the pass with the idea of
lifting the sales tax off of
gasoline has come up the big cry
has come from public schools and
local governments who benefit
from this but you're taking away
a huge part of our revenue.
>> I was a teacher before I
came.
My proposal wouldn't cut schools
but I like my proposal better
because the gas tax one is
dedicated to fix roads.
Our bonding could be in jeopardy
but also you have to back that
because everyone acknowledges
that the roads are falling apart
even the governor has made huge
strides to improve them there
still a long way to go.
Because we did this budget in
October gas was at $2.80 and
it's been over $3.50 for months
and it's been over $4 for quite
some time now and because of
that, because of the large
amount gas in -- is they have
received they were budgeted for
and then some.
And so mine would need to do
that.
But they are shipped to come up
at $750 million for roads and I
would rather use that money for
something else.
>> you are flint because you are
from Flint you look bit
interested in this underground
water structure for a long time.
In your mind what's the biggest
win from the piece of
legislation you passed recently
and then supplemental?
>> you covered a lot of it and I
could not agree more.
I think the underground
investment in water and sewer is
critical.
It's a great start toward the
amount of work that we need to
do long term to make these
improvements.
Having lived the Flint water
crisis in one of the highest in
ZIP Codes for concentration of
lead I am more than most people
knowing what it's like to be
afraid for your family and
dealing with the Benton Harbor
and this will be something that
happens all across the state
because we are an older state
with as mentioned mentioned,
World War II sort of the time
frame for a lot of the pipes
being put we will have this
issue across the state and if we
could make major investments
while move -- removing the
dangerous pipes from the ground
I think that's a great point but
I also like the parks and the
number of other things in there
as well at it in the road
investments will be helpful.
>> obviously a lot of folks want
to get the budget done by Summer
break but at the same time, the
tax issue seems to be a real
sticking point still.
Could just last week we had a
Kumbaya moment just last week
Republicans were accusing war on
family.
But you introduced your sales
tax on gas legislation this week
but give us an inside look,
where are the talks?
Where is there actually room for
compromise?
And how close is it actually
happening?
>> I do not think we are that
close yet and I have not been
able to determine if sending tax
cuts the governor won't sign is
a campaign tactic or something
they really want to get to a
compromise on I think we have
billions of dollars in surplus,
you know you can look at it as
our money or you can say we took
too much in for families and we
could give it back.
There's a number of ways to do
it.
The sales tax pause is a great
way to do it as that would
direct checks to than giving .2
to 3 percent points -- .2 to
3 percent cut to income that
most families wouldn't even see
or receive $75 per year if you
give direct checks now that we
have inflation.
That's a much more impactful way
to do it so there are ways to
get a compromise or not there is
an actual political decision
being made or if it is about
families.
If it's about helping families
and willing to join but if it's
about politics then it's just
politics.
I'd rather help families but
it's politics I couldn't do that
as well.
>> and issue the legislator
wanted to take up for spring or
Summer break was was ethics.
Of course the house is already
pass a full budget ethics
reforms bills, they have
introduced more house Democrats
are calling for investigation
into Lee Chatfield, where our
Senate Democrats?
Why are you guys doing the
stuff?
>> we have been consistently
talking about this over the term
and it's something I believe is
important.
Code on the show actually pushed
across the table my tax return
at one time.
And willing to lead with my --
on these issues.
I think personal finance
exposure is critical.
People have a right to know if
her voting on things I think
ethics is long overdue.
I that Senator Broome and Erwin
are putting in creating a
bicameral evenly based ethical
committee.
I would love to see that.
We could do that now.
It's really the Republican
leadership that's holding it up
and I'm willing to do at any
point in time.
I spoke about this so much over
the last -- that's probably the
old guy being around almost ten
years, I've been calling for
this and cosponsoring it for ten
years.
I'm not banging the drum because
I think the public has to start
bringing the drum or it will
never get done.
>> how >> to argue about taking
back control of the Michigan
Senate do to redistricting?
>> it's a great chance.
The maps are the first chance
with had in 40 years that are
not gerrymandered and I think it
will be our year of the national
environment isn't too bad I
think it's ours to lose and I
plan to do whatever we can to
make sure we win.
To give me your number?
How many seats?
>> we have 19 seats in the base
numbers.
We have 23 top-notch candidates.
I will dance around this as long
as you let me.
I will be the best I can.
I have a real serious path to
get the majority.
Think in your biggest fear is
that Joe Biden will cause you
trouble the Senate.
>> his numbers are improving the
war I think the policies will
start -- Democratic policy
sometimes take longer to serve
the public.
Use with they leave every time
Republican presidency when they
leave they leave us with the
best to take us a while to fix
it and hopefully some of that
stuff will come together by the
Summer and we will be in good
shape.
But the governor I think we'll
be the top.
She will lead us with her coat
tails and I think that we will
have a decent November.
>> what percentage do you think
you need from Governor Witmer to
give your candidates a chance to
get to the 20 seat minimum
needed for majority?
>> I think we can get to 19 if
she just wins the 452 to 53
range for sure because a better
match ups.
With her candidates and mean it
you look at our top 23
candidates and we have all
starts from top the bottom.
This is the first time I didn't
have to pull rod to everything I
could and blow peoples want to
get them to run for Senate.
Everyone wants to run and they
want to be in our team and I
don't blame them they want it to
be a good year.
>> do you think the
redistricting and the
possibility of actual majority
shook some people lose?
>> I do think that is a good
part of it.
When you draw maps fairly
Democrats get more votes from
the state legislature.
We just do.
They just had the maps drawn so
poorly or so in their figure for
so long that want to see that
they can win and they should win
the senator said after the mask
came out the commission I think
I will try to quote them
basically said commission
clearly drew a democratic
gerrymandered.
I don't think by any stretch of
any definition that is if you
draw maps that are slightly more
favorable to Democrats because
that where people vote than you
could tell they are afraid
because they have only ran in
really safe districts where they
had a majority before the
election started to.
Now they have to go out and talk
to people and a lot of these
values don't line up to people
are at.
>> were getting to an overtime
segment before that, you are a
lame duck right now and do you
want to be part of the Witmer
administration if she gets
reelected?
>> if not I hope I can get a
good word it with tutor Dixon.
>> was that an answer?
I missed it if it was in there.
>> I haven't decided.
281 days, I could take a break
and relax and just watch this
show without having to worry
about what I may say or do that
gets me in trouble with my press
secretary.
>> okay or not off the hook yet
so stay tuned for overtime.
We will be our website for more
over time with the Senator.
>> production of off the record
is made possible by Martin
Wehmeier of full-service
strategic communications agency
partnering with clients to
public relations, digital
marketing and public policy
engagement.
Learn more at Martin whenMeyer
.com.
>> for more off the visit w K A
R .org.
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