WEBVTT

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>>> WELCOME BACK.


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OFF THE RECORD STARTS RIGHT NOW.


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>> ON THE PANEL THIS WEEK WE


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HAVE SUE DEMAS AND BILL


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BALLENGER ALONG WERE CHAD


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LIVENGOOD.


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HERE IS THE RUNDOWN.


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A NEW PRESIDENTIAL POLL IN


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MICHIGAN, AN UPDATE ON THE U.S.


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SENATE RACE AND LATER ON,


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BUSINESS LOBBYIST IS PITCHING A


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TAX HIKE PLAN.


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ALL THIS AND MORE COMING UP


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RIGHT NOW, "OFF THE RECORD."


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¶


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¶


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>> Tim: THANK YOU JOE.


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WELCOME TO OUR PROGRAM.


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POLLING DATA ON THE PRESIDENTIAL


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RACE IN MICHIGAN.


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LET'S TAKE A PEEK.


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>> IN THE HEAD TO HEAD MATCH-UP.


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IT'S 47% FOR OBAMA AND 42% FOR


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MR. ROMNEY WITH A 4% MARGIN OF


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ERROR.


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HOWEVER, WITH THE IMPORTANT


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FEMALE VOTERS IT'S MR. OBAMA


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WITH A 7% LEAD AND LEAD WITH


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INDEPENDENT VOTERS.


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ACROSS THE STATE THE PRESIDENT


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LEADS IN DETROIT, HAS NARROW


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LEAD IN WEST MICHIGAN AND


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LANSING HE ENJOYS A 47% TO 40%


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SPREAD.


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BUT POLTSD ALSO REVEAL THAT IN


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OAKLAND COUNTY.


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REPUBLICAN TERRITORY, MR. ROMNEY


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IS LOSING BY 16 POINTS.


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>> THE POLLS ARE TRYING TO DRIVE


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THE DEBATE AND ELECTION.


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>> SO YOU DON'T BELIEVE YOUR GUY


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IS BEHIND IN OAKLAND COUNTY?


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>> I HAVE NO IDEA UNTIL I LOOK


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AT THE POLLS.


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>> ROMNEY IS LOWER WHERE HE


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SHOULD BE WITH WEST MICHIGAN BUT


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INDEPENDENTS ARE UNDECIDED.


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THERE IS A POSSIBILITY.


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>> MR. ROMNEY HAS A BIG DEAL


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WHETHER YOU ARE BETTER OFF FOUR


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YEARS AGO.


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37% SAY THEY ARE BETTER OFF AND


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40% SAY THEY ARE NOT.


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IRONICALLY FOR REPUBLICANS


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TAKING CREDIT MR. SNYDER TURNING


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THE STATE'S ECONOMY AROUND BUT


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THE PRESIDENT IS BENEFITING FROM


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THAT.


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>> OBAMA IS BENEFITING FROM THE


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FACT THAT MICHIGAN ARE DOING A


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LOT BETTER THAN THEY WERE TWO TO


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FOUR YEARS AGO, THEY ARE GIVING


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OBAMA ALMOST AS MUCH CREDIT AS


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SNYDER FOR DOING THAT.


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>> 49 DAYS AGO UNTIL THE POLL


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THAT REALLY COUNTS.


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>> Tim: IT SEEMS TO ME, THE


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PROBLEM IN OAKLAND COUNTY FOR


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MR. ROMNEY S IT HUGE?


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>> I THINK IT IS.


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WE HAVE A LOT OF SUBURBAN VOTERS


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THAT COULD GO EITHER WAY.


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2010 THEY WENT REPUBLICAN.


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THIS YEAR WAS ALL OF THE WOMEN


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AND REPUBLICANS TRYING TO GET


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THEM BACK.


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>> YOU HAVE SOME POLLING COMING


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OUT.


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ARE YOU COP SET I CAN WITH THE


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NUMBERS HERE?


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>> AND BIGGER MARGIN FOR OBAMA,


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52-38 ROUGHLY.


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>> Tim: IN THE HEAD TO HEAD?


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>> IN THE HEAD TO HEAD CITY TO.


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PRESIDENT IS GETTING A BIG SURGE


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IN WOMEN VOTERS ON HIS SIDE AND


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OAKLAND COUNTY IS GOING MORE IN


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HIS COLUMN.


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THE HOUSE DEMOCRATIC COMMITTEE


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IS REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS.


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THEY THINK THAT SOUTHERN SUBURBS


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AROUND DETROIT ARE WHERE THEY


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CAN PICK UP SOME SEATS.


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>> THERE IS A LOT OF POLLING OUT


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THERE.


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DEFINITELY HIS LEAD HAS GONE UP


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SINCE THE DNC.


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EPIC MRA HAS HIM UP BY TEN.


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>> THIS RACE IS NOT OVER?


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>> I DON'T THINK IT IS.


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THERE IS SOME QUESTION ABOUT THE


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POLL.


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DIDN'T THEY DO THE POLL -- THEY


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MAY HAVE OVERSAMPLED DEMOCRATS


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BY 14%.


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THERE IS WHAT I'VE HEARD.


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WELL, THAT IS WHAT I HAVE HEARD.


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BUT IN ANY EVENT I THINK


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PROBABLY THE POLL THAT YOU


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REPORTED THERE IN THE VIDEO IS


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MORE ACCURATE OF WHERE THE LAUGH


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IS PROBABLY IS.


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SUSAN IS RIGHT.


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MITT ROMNEY CAN'T DO WELL IN HIS


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OWN HOME STOMPING GROUNDS OF


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OAKLAND COUNTY HE HAS REAL


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PROBLEMS IN MICHIGAN.


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AGAIN, WE'RE INUNDATED WITH


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POLLS, THEY ARE GOING TO COULD


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KEEP OPENING IN.


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REMEMBER, JIMMY CARTER WAS AHEAD


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OF RONALD REAGAN UNTIL THE


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DEBATE AND THAT WAS IN OCTOBER.


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THERE IS LONG WAY TO GO AND


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THINGS CAN TURN AROUND BUT IT'S


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BEEN A BAD WEEK.


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>> WHAT ABOUT ROMNEY AND GALLUP


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WHERE CARTER WAS AHEAD POLLING


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REAGAN.


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YOU WOULD NEED SOMETHING VERY


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SIGNIFICANT.


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ESPECIALLY IN MICHIGAN TO TURN


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AROUND FOR ROMNEY.


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IT'S TOTALLY NOT OUT OF THE


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QUESTION.


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WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE EUROPEAN


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ECONOMY IS GOING TO DO.


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THERE COULD BE AN INCIDENT IN


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LIBYA.


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WE HAVE NO IDEA.


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IT DOES SEEM TO BE TROUBLING


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SINCE THIS SUMMER AND TRAILING


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IN OBAMA'S WAY.


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>> IT'S 47%% DEMOCRATS, 40%


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REPUBLICANS AND 16%


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INDEPENDENTS.


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>> IS EIGHT A PROBLEM OR NOT?


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>> THERE ARE SO MANY POLLS OUT


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THERE.


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THERE COULD BE SOMEWHERE IT'S


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ROUGHLY A DEBT HEAT.


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THERE ARE NOT MANY OF THOSE BUT


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THERE ARE SOME OBAMA IS AHEAD.


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EVERYBODY AGREES OBAMA IS AHEAD.


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THE ONLY QUESTION IS HOW MUCH.


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>> Tim: IF YOU ARE SITTING IN


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THE ROMNEY CAMP, GUYS WE HAVE A


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PROBLEM IN MICHIGAN.


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WE PROBABLY NEED TO MAKE A GOOD


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SHOWING THERE.


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WHAT DO WE DO?


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>> THEY NEED TO GET OUT AND


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CONNECT WITH VOTERS HERE.


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>> Tim: WHAT ABOUT THE, QUOTE,


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VICTORY CENTERS.


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>> HE NEEDS A LOT MORE.


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>> HE CAN WIN TECHNICALLY IF YOU


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LOOK AT THE NUMBERS WITHOUT


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WINNING MICHIGAN.


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IT'S HARD TO SEE OBAMA BEING


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ELECTED AS PRESIDENT IF HE


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DOESN'T WIN MICHIGAN.


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ROMNEY IS NOT GOING TO KIGS OFF


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MICHIGAN.


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I THINK HE IS GOING RUN IT LIKE


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GEORGE BUSH IN 2004, HE IS GOING


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TO REFUSE TO CONCEDE HE IS GOING


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TO LOSE MICHIGAN AND MAKE OBAMA


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WORK HERE.


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THE OTHER NIGHT, WILL BE ON THE


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GIBBS, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY


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WAS HERE, I THINK WE HAVE TO


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SPEND $10,000 IN MICHIGAN AND WE


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CAN STILL WIN.


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>> HE WAS WHISTLING FOR THE


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GRAVEYARD.


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[ LAUGHTER ]


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>> SINCE THE PRIMARY, THEY SPENT


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A GOOSE EGG WHICH IS BAD FOR THE


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ECONOMY.


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ROMNEY FOLKS HAVE KICKED IN.


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WE APPRECIATE THAT.


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>> YOU MENTIONED MIKE COX, ABOUT


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THE FLAP OVER THE 47%.


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IN ANOTHER WEEK NOBODY WILL


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REMEMBER THE STORY AND MOVE ON


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TO SOMETHING ELSE.


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IS HE ON TO SOMETHING?


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>> HE MAY BE.


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ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS


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SHOWING UP IN THE POLLS, VOTED


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IS COMING OFF THE DEMOCRATIC


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NATIONAL CONVENTION WHERE WE


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HEARD A LOT ABOUT THE AUTO


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INDUSTRY IN THAT CONVENTION.


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THERE WAS SOME ISSUES IN THE


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REPUBLICAN CONVENTION, THAT MAY


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HAVE NOT GONE OVER TOO WELL.


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ROMNEY HASN'T GIVEN INDEPENDENT


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VOTERS TO TALK ABOUT.


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>> Tim: HE HAS BUT NOT WHAT THEY


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WANT TO TALK ABOUT.


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>> IT'S PART OF THE 47%.


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>> JIM BLANCHARD SAYS I AM PART


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OF THE 47% AND I AM PAYING


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TAXES.


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WILL THIS BLOW OVER?


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>> EVERYTHING BLOWS OVER


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EVENTUALLY.


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THERE WILL BE SOMETHING NEW.


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RIGHT NOW IT'S GETTING A LOT OF


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PLAY.


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A LOT OF PEOPLE REALLY FEEL LIKE


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THIS IS LEGALLY MITT ROMNEY.


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>> THE REPUBLICANS ARE TROTTING


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OUT THAT PRESIDENT WANTS TO


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REDISTRIBUTE THE WEALTH.


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WILL THAT GET THE SAME LEGS AS


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THIS THING?


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>> IT WILL NOT.


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>> IT'S SOCIALIST.


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>> THEY HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL


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ALONG, IT HASN'T WORKED YET.


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LOOK, HE HAS GOT TO DO


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SOMETHING.


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HE COULD POSSIBLY -- THIS IS


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WHAT THE CONSERVATIVES AND


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REPUBLICANS HOPE -- CONVERTED


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THIS FIASCO INTO SOMETHING


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SPECTACULAR, LIKE DO A JUJITSU


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AND REFRAME THE WHOLE DEBATE.


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>> Tim: DOES HE MEAN IT?


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>> HE SOLIDIFIES THE BASE WITH


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THAT.


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>> HE CAN BASICALLY TURN NIGHT


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THE ARGUMENT THEY ARE PUSHING.


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WHICH IS WHAT THE REPUBLICANS


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BELIEVE IN GROWING JOBS FOR


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EVERYBODY.


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>> I AM NOT INTERESTED IN THESE


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PEOPLE.


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I BELIEVE IT HAS BEEN


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MISINTERPRETED.


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>> THAT LINE WAS IN THE CONTEXT


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I'M NOT GOING TO GET THEM.


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THEY ARE ALREADY GONE.


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>> THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS IN


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CAMPAIGNS.


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>> Tim: IS IT UNFAIR?


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>> OF COURSE IT'S UNFAIR.


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THERE IS POLITICS.


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YOU HAVE TO COME UP WITH


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SOMETHING ELSE TO COUNTER IT.


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THE PROBLEM IS ROMNEY HAS NOT


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BEEN NIMBLE ENOUGH TO PIVOT AND


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DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND GET


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PEOPLE TO FOCUS ON SOMETHING


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THAT IS GOING TO BE POSITIVE FOR


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HIM.


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HE CAN'T SEEM TO STOP SHOOTING


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HIMSELF IN THE FOOT.


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>> Tim: NUMBERS IN THE U.S.


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SENATE RACE?


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>> STABENOW WITH A 16-POINT LEAD


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OVER CONGRESSMAN HOEKSTRA.


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>> THAT IS REALLY BIG.


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>> WHY IS IT THAT BIG?


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>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT IF


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IT'S AN INDICATION OF A TREND.


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SHE GOT THE FARM BILL


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ENDORSEMENT.


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HOEKSTRA HAS NEVER TAKEN OFF.


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HIS CAMPAIGN NEVER CAUGHT FIRE.


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SHE IS SITTING ON HER MONEY.


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SHE HASN'T SPENT ANYTHING.


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>> Tim: HOW DOES HOEKSTRA WIN


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THIS THING?


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>> THAT IS AN EXCELLENT QUESTION


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WE SHOULD HAVE HIM BACK.


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>> THEY SHOULD DO THE DEBATES.


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>> THEY DON'T HAVE THE FORMAT.


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>> THEY SCHEDULED ON TWO.


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>> THE JOINT ECONOMIC CLUB AND


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ON THE WEST SIDE.


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>> DO THEY HAVE A DATE?


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>> THAT IS WHAT I MEAN.


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>>> WE TAKE NO QUESTIONS FROM


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REPORTERS AND QUESTIONS FROM THE


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AUDIENCE.


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>> THE THING THAT IS HURTING


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PETE HOEKSTRA IS THE SAME THING


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HURTING MITT ROMNEY.


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STABENOW HAS A 2-1 MARGIN IN


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WOMEN OVER PETE HOEKSTRA.


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>> THE REASON WHY IS THERE IS


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MORE DEMOCRATS IN YOUR SURVEY


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PEOPLE HAVE MOVED INTO THAT


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COLUMN SINCE THE LAST POLLING.


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YOU HAVE WOMEN THAT IDENTIFY AS


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INDEPENDENTS ARE NOW SHIFTING TO


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DEMOCRATS.


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>> IN AUGUST SURVEY IT WAS 39%


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DEMOCRATS, 32 REPUBLICAN AND 25


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INDEPENDENTS.


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INDEPENDENTS ARE SHIFTING OVER


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INTO THE DEMOCRATIC COLUMN.


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>> THEY AREN'T STAYING THERE.


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>> ANYTHING AT BALLOT PROPOSALS


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JUMPED OUT AT YOU?


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>> THE BRIDGE IS MAKING A


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COMEBACK.


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>> Tim: TOWARD 50%?


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>> 49.9.


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>> YOU HAVE TO BE OVER 60.


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>> THEY WERE AT 42 1/2 BACK IN


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AUGUST.


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ITS COMEBACK IS POSSIBLY LINKED


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TO THEIR ADS.


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THEY SPENT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.


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THEIR ADS ARE TELLING PEOPLE WHY


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THEY ARE VOTING YES.


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FEATURING INTERVIEWS PEOPLE


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SAYING WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH


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MONEY FOR SCHOOLS BUT HOW COULD


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WE HAVE ENOUGH MONEY FOR BRIDGE.


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NOBODY IS POINTING THAT OUT.


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THEY ARE BENEFITING AND PEOPLE


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I'VE INTERVIEWED THEY SAY THOSE


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ADS RESONATE.


13:06.672 --> 13:08.172
THE OTHER PEOPLE THAT LIKE THOSE


13:08.240 --> 13:09.507
ADS IS LABOR UNIONS.


13:09.608 --> 13:12.843
THAT MATCHES THEIR MESSAGE ON


13:12.944 --> 13:14.445
PROPOSAL 12 ON COLLECTIVE


13:14.513 --> 13:16.046
BARGAINING THERE IS SOME KIND OF


13:16.114 --> 13:18.349
AN ASSAULT BY SPECIAL INTERESTS


13:18.417 --> 13:22.353
ON PUBLIC WORKERS, TEACHERS,


13:22.421 --> 13:22.887
FIREFIGHTERS.


13:22.954 --> 13:24.889
SO THE LABOR UNIONS LIKE THESE


13:24.956 --> 13:26.824
ADS BECAUSE IT'S RESONATES WITH


13:26.892 --> 13:28.726
THE SAME MESSAGE THEY ARE


13:28.794 --> 13:33.998
PUSHING AND THE UAW.


13:34.065 --> 13:36.801
>>> IT MAY BE A POINT.


13:36.902 --> 13:38.202
>> I DON'T SEE IN THE


13:38.270 --> 13:38.603
CONNECTION.


13:38.671 --> 13:40.204
>> I JUST MISSED IT.


13:40.306 --> 13:42.674
>> FINALLY LINK UP ON A YES


13:42.741 --> 13:44.709
CAMPAIGN BUT NOBODY COULD GET IT


13:44.777 --> 13:45.209
TOGETHER.


13:45.277 --> 13:47.578
>> Tim: IS THE NO RESONATE GO IS


13:47.680 --> 13:49.414
THAT IS WHAT DOMINATING?


13:49.481 --> 13:50.548
>> I THINK IT IS.


13:50.616 --> 13:53.651
I THINK IT'S HURTING PROPOSAL 1,


13:53.719 --> 13:56.053
A FINANCIAL MANAGER, THAT


13:56.154 --> 13:57.789
SUPPORT HAS DROPPED.


13:57.856 --> 13:59.691
ALL THOSE OVER IS HOVERING


13:59.792 --> 14:02.091
AROUND THE HIGH 40s AND 50s.


14:02.193 --> 14:03.960
YOU NEED MORE OF A CUSHION THAN


14:04.028 --> 14:05.295
THAT GOING INTO AN ELECTION.


14:05.363 --> 14:06.630
>> IT'S VERY HARD TO POLL ON


14:06.698 --> 14:08.598
THESE QUESTIONS.


14:08.666 --> 14:11.468
WE PROBABLY SEE A SURPRISE WITH


14:11.536 --> 14:12.602
SOMETHING ON ELECTION DAY.


14:12.670 --> 14:16.773
>> YOU CANNOT POLL BALLOTS.


14:16.874 --> 14:18.508
>> WHEN WE HAD THE SUMMARIES


14:18.676 --> 14:20.310
BASED ON THE PETITIONS, NOW WE


14:20.378 --> 14:21.578
HAVE HUNDRED WORD STATEMENTS


14:21.646 --> 14:24.280
FROM THE BALLOTS AND READ THOSE


14:24.349 --> 14:27.050
TO PEOPLE, IT'S VERY EASY TO GET


14:27.151 --> 14:27.584
LOST.


14:27.719 --> 14:30.220
>> ONE OF SUBTLE THINGS YOU CAN


14:30.321 --> 14:34.290
POLL FOR IS IF THIS BRIDGE IS A


14:34.359 --> 14:36.693
LITTLE TOWN CALLED DETROIT.


14:36.794 --> 14:38.127
ANYTHING WITH A DSM IS ON IT


14:38.229 --> 14:39.929
OTHER THAN THE TIGERS?


14:39.997 --> 14:42.399
>> MAYBE PEOPLE THINK PEOPLE


14:42.467 --> 14:45.335
FROM DETROIT WILL LEAVE TO


14:45.436 --> 14:45.869
CANADA.


14:45.936 --> 14:47.270
>> YOU COULD MAKE THAT ARGUMENT


14:47.338 --> 14:48.605
BUT I'M NOT SURE THEY ARE GOING


14:48.706 --> 14:49.072
TO.


14:49.139 --> 14:50.474
>> AM I ON TO SOMETHING?


14:50.541 --> 14:53.443
>> YOU THINK THE STATE IS GOING


14:53.511 --> 14:54.811
TO VOTED AGAINST THIS.


14:54.879 --> 14:56.145
>> I WOULDN'T BET THAT.


14:56.213 --> 14:59.215
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT OF


14:59.283 --> 15:00.917
STATE WHO ARE RETIRED.


15:00.985 --> 15:03.051
A INTERVIEWED A MAN IN TRAVERSE


15:03.119 --> 15:04.319
CITY LAST NIGHT.


15:04.388 --> 15:06.288
HE READS THE DETROIT PAPERS


15:06.356 --> 15:08.858
PRETTY REGULARLY.


15:08.958 --> 15:09.792
>> HE IS THE ONE.


15:09.860 --> 15:13.696
>> HE KNOWS WHO IS BEHIND THE


15:13.764 --> 15:16.899
BRIDGE AMENDMENT.


15:16.966 --> 15:20.235
>> ONE POLL HAS 64%.


15:20.303 --> 15:23.939
>> LET'S GO WITH CHARLIE OWENS.


15:24.007 --> 15:26.208
>> CHARLIE OWENS IS THE STATE


15:26.276 --> 15:28.544
DIRECTOR OF THE MICHIGAN CHAPTER


15:28.612 --> 15:29.978
OF NFIB.


15:30.046 --> 15:31.914
HE HAS BEEN IN LANSING LOBBYIST


15:32.015 --> 15:33.749
FOR 25 YEARS AND IS CURRENTLY


15:34.017 --> 15:35.183
WORKING WITH A GROUP TRYING TO


15:35.251 --> 15:37.252
INSTALL A TWO-THIRDS VOTE TO


15:37.353 --> 15:38.854
RAISE TAXES AFRICAN-AMERICAN


15:38.922 --> 15:40.289
NATIVE OF ILLINOIS, MR. OWENS


15:40.356 --> 15:42.190
EARNED HIS UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE


15:42.325 --> 15:44.794
FROM NORTHERN ILLINOIS.


15:44.861 --> 15:46.762
>> Tim: MR. OWENS IS HERE


15:46.830 --> 15:48.130
BECAUSE THE PEOPLE THAT WERE


15:48.197 --> 15:49.498
FIGHTING THIS BALLOT YOU ARE A


15:49.566 --> 15:50.232
YES VOTE.


15:50.300 --> 15:52.535
CHAD HAS THE FIRST QUESTION?


15:52.602 --> 15:54.136
>> WHY SHOULD PEOPLE VOTE FOR


15:54.237 --> 15:54.637
THIS?


15:54.738 --> 15:56.371
>> I THINK THAT IF YOU CONSIDER


15:56.440 --> 15:59.742
THE FACT THAT WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN


15:59.810 --> 16:01.009
WASHINGTON AND IN A LOT OF STATE


16:01.077 --> 16:03.344
AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, WHEN


16:03.446 --> 16:04.779
THERE IS A CRISIS IN THE BUDGET,


16:04.880 --> 16:06.748
WHEN THERE IS A BUDGET SHORTFALL


16:06.816 --> 16:08.516
IT SEEMS LIKE TAX INCREASES ARE


16:08.584 --> 16:10.284
THE FIRST PLACES THAT ELECTED


16:10.352 --> 16:11.519
OFFICIALS LIKE TO GO.


16:11.587 --> 16:13.621
THIS WOULD MAKE IT A LITTLE


16:13.722 --> 16:15.356
HARDER FOR THEM TO DO THAT.


16:15.424 --> 16:16.925
OUR HOPE IS THAT WOULD FORCE


16:16.992 --> 16:19.093
THEM TO PRIORITIZE SPENDING AND


16:19.161 --> 16:19.994
OTHER THINGS.


16:20.062 --> 16:21.830
IF THEY CAN MAKE A CASE TO THE


16:21.897 --> 16:23.197
PEOPLE THEY HAVE DONE ALL THOSE


16:23.265 --> 16:23.731
THINGS.


16:23.799 --> 16:25.366
THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND THEY


16:25.434 --> 16:27.335
NEED A TAX INCREASE.


16:27.402 --> 16:29.236
THEY CAN GET A TAX INCREASE.


16:29.304 --> 16:30.572
>> IS THIS A PERSONAL


16:30.639 --> 16:33.307
INFORMATION OR NFID'S POSITION?


16:33.375 --> 16:37.679
>> THIS IS THEIR POSITION.


16:37.746 --> 16:39.814
>>> WOULD YOU VOTE YES ON IT OR


16:39.882 --> 16:40.482
NOT?


16:40.649 --> 16:42.617
>> I WOULD VOTE YES ON IT.


16:42.685 --> 16:44.418
>> THE OTHER PROPOSALS, WHERE DO


16:44.487 --> 16:48.255
YOU SIT IN WITH CHAMBER AND


16:48.323 --> 16:49.524
MICHIGAN MANUFACTURERS AND SMALL


16:49.592 --> 16:49.991
BUSINESS.


16:50.058 --> 16:52.494
HAVE YOU COALESCED AND UNIFIED


16:52.595 --> 16:56.764
IN ONE POSITION ON MORE THAN....


16:56.832 --> 16:58.533
>> ON ANYTHING?


16:58.601 --> 17:00.167
>> ACTUALLY THE BALLOT PROPOSAL?


17:00.235 --> 17:01.668
>> MOST OF THE TIME WE ARE ON


17:01.736 --> 17:02.769
THE SAME PAGE.


17:02.837 --> 17:05.438
WE SETTLE OUR POLICIES


17:05.540 --> 17:09.510
DIFFERENTLY THAN OTHER GROUPS BY


17:09.577 --> 17:10.577
SURVEYING OUR MEMBERS.


17:10.645 --> 17:12.178
THAT PUTS US IN A DIFFERENT


17:12.246 --> 17:13.313
PLACE QUITE OFTEN.


17:13.381 --> 17:15.549
THE SHORT ANSWER, WE AGREE WITH


17:15.617 --> 17:19.386
THOSE GROUPS ON TWO AND FOUR.


17:19.453 --> 17:20.186
VOTE NO.


17:20.321 --> 17:21.855
WE WANT TO SEE THE EMERGENCY


17:21.923 --> 17:23.557
MANAGER LAW LEFT ENACT WHICH


17:23.625 --> 17:27.093
WOULD BE YES VOTE ON 1.


17:27.161 --> 17:29.930
THE AREA WE DIFFICULT IS PROP 5


17:30.031 --> 17:31.331
ON TWO-THIRDS.


17:31.399 --> 17:34.267
WE HAVE NO POSITION ON THAT.


17:34.335 --> 17:36.469
>> WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER POSITION


17:36.538 --> 17:38.338
THE CHAMBER, THE BRIDGE


17:38.406 --> 17:39.039
PROPOSAL?


17:39.106 --> 17:40.741
>> I THINK SO.


17:40.808 --> 17:42.943
AGAIN, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A


17:43.011 --> 17:43.744
POSITION ON IT.


17:43.811 --> 17:46.046
I HAVEN'T BEEN PAYING AS MUCH


17:46.113 --> 17:46.880
ATTENTION.


17:46.948 --> 17:48.549
>> DO YOU FIND YOU ARE


17:48.616 --> 17:51.151
ACCIDENTALLY IN-SYNC WITH THESE


17:51.218 --> 17:53.687
GROUPS OR DO YOU SIT DOWN AT A


17:53.755 --> 17:55.255
TABLE AND BRAINSTORM, WE'RE


17:55.356 --> 17:59.259
GOING TO MARCH OUT ARM IN ARM?


17:59.326 --> 18:01.194
>> EARLY ON WE SAT DOWN AND


18:01.295 --> 18:03.395
LOOKED AT THE BALLOT PROPOSALS


18:03.496 --> 18:06.165
AND ANALYZE OPPORTUNITIES.


18:06.232 --> 18:08.834
WE WERE ALL WORKING IN THE SAME


18:08.936 --> 18:09.602
DIRECTION.


18:09.670 --> 18:10.402
MY CHALLENGE IS A LOT OF THESE


18:10.470 --> 18:13.405
GROUPS BECAUSE THEY SET POLICY


18:13.473 --> 18:15.741
TO BOARDS OF DIRECTORS OR


18:15.809 --> 18:17.043
LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEES.


18:17.110 --> 18:19.579
WHEN WE GET IN THE COMMITTEES,


18:19.646 --> 18:20.980
THEY SAY WE'RE GOING IN THIS


18:21.081 --> 18:21.647
DIRECTION.


18:21.748 --> 18:23.716
I SAY I THINK MY MEMBERS WILL GO


18:23.784 --> 18:25.384
IN THIS DIRECTION UNTIL I SURVEY


18:25.452 --> 18:26.485
THEM I DO NOT KNOW.


18:26.553 --> 18:30.322
>>> THE OTHER SIDE IS GOING TO


18:30.390 --> 18:32.825
BE MAKING MATTIE THE BAD GUY


18:32.893 --> 18:34.460
BECAUSE HE IS FUNDING THE TWO


18:34.527 --> 18:35.227
THIRDS VOTE?


18:35.295 --> 18:36.963
>> IT MAY BE A LIABILITY FOR THE


18:37.064 --> 18:37.463
PROPOSAL.


18:37.530 --> 18:38.864
IT'S NOT A LIABILITY FOR US.


18:38.966 --> 18:40.900
IF YOU GO BACK TO 2006 WHEN WE


18:40.968 --> 18:44.937
HAD THE STOPOVER SPENDING EFFORT


18:45.005 --> 18:48.074
IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER TO US


18:48.141 --> 18:49.008
HOW IT GOT THERE.


18:49.076 --> 18:50.576
WE'RE GOING TO VOTE WHAT IS IN


18:50.677 --> 18:51.577
FRONT OF US.


18:51.645 --> 18:53.646
>> IF A PROPOSAL IS ON THE


18:53.747 --> 18:55.214
BALLOT.


18:55.281 --> 18:56.882
IT'S OUR JOB.


18:56.950 --> 19:01.153
>> BUT HOW ABOUT HAVING HIM FUND


19:01.221 --> 19:01.620
IT?


19:01.687 --> 19:03.287
>> I DIDN'T SAY THAT.


19:03.355 --> 19:05.256
>> WHY MIGHT IT BE?


19:05.324 --> 19:06.891
>> THERE WAS ONE SPECIFIC


19:06.993 --> 19:08.693
INDIVIDUAL THAT PUT A LOT OF


19:08.761 --> 19:09.761
FUNDING FOR IT.


19:09.829 --> 19:11.730
THAT MAY BE A NEGATIVE FOR SOME


19:11.831 --> 19:13.064
PEOPLE.


19:13.132 --> 19:14.365
STOPOVER IT WAS OUT OF STATE


19:14.433 --> 19:15.366
GROUP THAT CAME IN.


19:15.434 --> 19:17.301
I THINK THAT SOME GROUPS REACT


19:17.369 --> 19:19.004
TO THAT NEGATIVELY AND SOME


19:19.071 --> 19:20.739
VOTERS MAY.


19:20.806 --> 19:23.942
>> LAST YEAR THE CENSUS THEY GOT


19:24.010 --> 19:27.245
A $1 BILLION TAX CUT AND TAX


19:27.312 --> 19:28.713
INCREASES FOR INDIVIDUALS.


19:28.781 --> 19:30.982
THAT COULDN'T HAPPEN UNDER


19:31.083 --> 19:32.083
PROPOSAL 5.


19:32.151 --> 19:33.584
WOULD THAT BE A BAD THING?


19:33.653 --> 19:34.753
>> IT WOULD BE.


19:34.820 --> 19:36.320
I HAVE HAD THE QUESTION PUT TO


19:36.388 --> 19:39.924
ME, IF WE HAD PROPOSAL 5 IN


19:39.992 --> 19:41.626
PLACE YOU WOULD HAVE GOTTEN RID


19:41.694 --> 19:44.162
OF THE MICHIGAN BUSINESS TAX AND


19:44.229 --> 19:47.032
GONE TO THE NEW TAX SYSTEM.


19:47.099 --> 19:49.067
I BELIEVE PROBABLY NOT.


19:49.135 --> 19:51.502
IF YOU GO BACK TO THE VOTED.


19:51.570 --> 19:53.705
LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR CAST THE TIE


19:53.773 --> 19:54.839
BREAKING VOTED.


19:54.974 --> 20:00.845
>> Tim: WHY WERE SUPPORTING IT?


20:00.913 --> 20:02.546
>> THAT WAS THEN AND THIS IS


20:02.647 --> 20:03.681
NOW.


20:03.782 --> 20:05.215
HERE WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE


20:05.283 --> 20:06.917
WE THINK WE HAVE MADE GREAT


20:07.018 --> 20:09.153
PROGRESS IN THE BUSINESS TAX


20:09.220 --> 20:10.487
CLIMATE IN THE STATE.


20:10.588 --> 20:14.591
NOW, WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT IT


20:14.659 --> 20:15.592
BEING JEOPARDIZED.


20:15.660 --> 20:16.393
>> YOU HAVE A REPUBLICAN


20:16.494 --> 20:17.761
GOVERNOR AND A LEGISLATURE THAT


20:17.829 --> 20:18.962
IS LIKELY TO BE REPUBLICAN.


20:19.030 --> 20:23.133
WHAT ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT?


20:23.234 --> 20:26.670
>> WELL, HISTORY HAS SHOWN THAT


20:26.738 --> 20:29.006
THESE THINGS DO EASTBOUND AND


20:29.074 --> 20:29.673
FLOW.


20:29.741 --> 20:34.211
I GO BACK BEING IN THIS DOWN TOO


20:34.278 --> 20:34.712
LONG.


20:34.946 --> 20:37.280
I REMEMBER IN THE ENGLER


20:37.348 --> 20:39.116
ADMINISTRATION WE HAD SO MUCH


20:39.217 --> 20:40.851
MONEY WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT


20:40.985 --> 20:42.452
TO DO WITH IT.


20:42.520 --> 20:44.154
YOU WERE THERE.


20:44.222 --> 20:47.124
AT THAT POINT IT WAS PA FIGHT


20:47.225 --> 20:51.128
OVER WHICH TAX CUT HOW LOW DO WE


20:51.196 --> 20:53.396
MAKE THE INCOME TAX.


20:53.464 --> 20:56.299
OUR CONCERN IS EVEN WITH THE


20:56.400 --> 20:57.534
FISCAL RESPONSIBILITIES SHOWN BY


20:57.602 --> 20:59.036
THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION AND


20:59.104 --> 21:01.904
LEGISLATURE, WITHIN A FEW YEARS


21:01.972 --> 21:03.973
OR MORE, WE COULD BE BACK INTO A


21:04.074 --> 21:06.275
SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE


21:06.343 --> 21:08.845
SURPLUSES.


21:08.912 --> 21:13.582
WE LOOK AH THE LITTLE SURPLUS.


21:13.650 --> 21:14.951
>> Tim: THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO


21:15.018 --> 21:16.986
WOULD WORRY ABOUT A TAX HIKE?


21:17.054 --> 21:19.455
>> BUT THE TEMPTATION TO SPEND


21:19.522 --> 21:20.356
RISES AGAIN.


21:20.457 --> 21:23.325
THAT LEADS AT SOME POINT THE


21:23.393 --> 21:25.294
SURPLUS IS SPENT AND THEN WE


21:25.362 --> 21:26.629
HEAD INTO A DEFICIT.


21:26.696 --> 21:28.731
>> Tim: HOW ABOUT ON THE OUTSIDE


21:28.799 --> 21:30.199
LOOKING INTO AND EVERYBODY IN


21:30.300 --> 21:32.135
TOWN IS AGAINST THIS PROPOSAL?


21:32.202 --> 21:34.403
>> WE'RE THE ONLY GROUP THAT


21:34.504 --> 21:35.738
SUPPORTS TERM LIMITS.


21:35.839 --> 21:37.273
>> IN CALIFORNIA FOR INSTANCE


21:37.340 --> 21:41.310
THEY HAVE TERM LIMITS.


21:41.411 --> 21:43.112
THEY ALSO HAVE A TWO-THIRDS


21:43.180 --> 21:43.679
AMENDMENT.


21:43.781 --> 21:45.547
HAD A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR FOR


21:45.615 --> 21:46.883
EIGHT YEARS AND THEY STILL HAVE


21:46.984 --> 21:48.885
BEEN CRITICIZED AS BEING THE


21:48.952 --> 21:50.052
WORST MANAGED STATE IN THE


21:50.154 --> 21:50.653
COUNTRY.


21:50.720 --> 21:53.823
THAT HASN'T CHANGED OBVIOUSLY.


21:53.891 --> 21:56.592
HAS THEIR VERSION OF PROPOSAL 5


21:56.660 --> 21:58.294
CONTRIBUTED OR IN YOUR


21:58.361 --> 21:59.561
ESTIMATION IS THERE SOMETHING


21:59.629 --> 22:00.429
ELSE GOING ON?


22:00.497 --> 22:01.930
>> THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE GOING


22:01.998 --> 22:02.430
ON.


22:02.498 --> 22:05.366
IF YOU ARE REFERRING TO PROP 13.


22:05.467 --> 22:07.803
THERE WAS PROPOSAL IT WAS 111


22:07.870 --> 22:10.272
THAT WAS PASSED IN 2000.


22:10.339 --> 22:14.242
WITHOUT GETTING INTO DETAIL IT


22:14.310 --> 22:16.144
WAS SUPPOSE TO THAT THE GASOLINE


22:16.212 --> 22:18.980
TAX BUT THERE WAS A THING THAT


22:19.048 --> 22:20.816
MOVED THE LIMIT WHICH WAS A


22:20.917 --> 22:23.118
SPENDING LIMITATION.


22:23.219 --> 22:27.155
WHEN THEY SLIPPED OUT THE LIMIT,


22:27.223 --> 22:29.090
IT STRIPPED OUT THE SPENDING


22:29.158 --> 22:29.891
RESTRICTIONS.


22:29.959 --> 22:31.526
AFTER THAT HAD OCCURRED IN 2000


22:31.593 --> 22:34.462
WAS 30% INCREASE IN SPENDING


22:34.530 --> 22:37.833
UNDER BOTH GRAY DAVIS AND ARNOLD


22:37.934 --> 22:39.367
SCHWARZENEGGER, A REPUBLICAN.


22:39.468 --> 22:42.270
THIS ISN'T A PARTY ISSUE.


22:42.338 --> 22:44.239
>> WHAT IF TWO YEARS FROM NOW


22:44.373 --> 22:46.842
THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, NEVER


22:46.909 --> 22:48.710
KNOW, WE WANT TO CHANGE THIS TAX


22:48.777 --> 22:49.444
AGAIN.


22:49.511 --> 22:51.046
HOW ARE WE GOING TO DO THAT?


22:51.113 --> 22:53.081
>> WE HAVE TO GET TWO-THIRDS.


22:53.182 --> 22:54.883
>> HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO THAT?


22:54.951 --> 22:57.752
>> LET'S GO BACK TO COLORADO, A


22:57.820 --> 22:58.854
TAX BILL OF RIGHTS.


22:58.955 --> 23:01.289
PEOPLE SAID IT WAS A BAD IDEA.


23:01.357 --> 23:02.990
I BELIEVE THEY PASSED THAT IN


23:03.058 --> 23:03.924
1992.


23:03.992 --> 23:07.962
IN 2005 A CASE, THE GOVERNOR AND


23:08.029 --> 23:09.296
LEGISLATURE MADE A INDICATES TO


23:09.364 --> 23:11.232
THE PEOPLE THAT THEY NEEDED THAT


23:11.299 --> 23:13.533
SPENDING LIMIT RAISED OR THEY


23:13.601 --> 23:16.270
NEEDED IT EX EMPTIED SO THEY


23:16.338 --> 23:17.537
COULD BALANCE THEIR BUDGET.


23:17.605 --> 23:19.206
THEY MADE A GOOD CASE TO THE


23:19.274 --> 23:19.874
PEOPLE.


23:20.008 --> 23:23.410
THE PEOPLE RESPONDED AND THEY


23:23.478 --> 23:25.445
OVERRODE THE SPENDING LIMIT.


23:25.513 --> 23:28.515
>> 13 SENATORS CAN BLOCK THE


23:28.583 --> 23:30.017
POLICY THAT THE MAJORITY MAY


23:30.118 --> 23:30.450
WANT?


23:30.518 --> 23:31.685
>> THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT


23:31.753 --> 23:33.420
BUT AGAIN, THAT GOES HAND IN


23:33.488 --> 23:36.623
HAND WITH OUR BELIEF THAT YOU


23:36.691 --> 23:39.226
NEED A HIGHER TLRB HOLD TO


23:39.327 --> 23:39.927
INCREASE TAXES.


23:39.995 --> 23:42.562
>> Tim: WHY IS MAJORITY RULE IS


23:42.630 --> 23:44.131
NOT OKAY WHEN IT COMES TO TAXES


23:44.199 --> 23:47.067
WHEN THAT IS ESSENCE OF OUR


23:47.135 --> 23:48.202
DEMOCRACY?


23:48.270 --> 23:54.041
>> IT'S BECAUSE IT'S TOO EASY.


23:54.109 --> 23:55.475
>> LOOK AT THE FIGHT WE HAD IN


23:55.543 --> 23:56.476
2007.


23:56.544 --> 23:59.179
YOU ALMOST HAD FIST FIGHTS ON


23:59.247 --> 24:00.014
THE FLOOR.


24:00.081 --> 24:02.382
IT HASN'T BEEN EXTREMELY EASY TO


24:02.449 --> 24:03.383
RAISE TAXES HERE?


24:03.450 --> 24:07.353
>> NO, BUT IN 2007 WE ENDED UP


24:07.454 --> 24:10.823
WITH A INCOME TAX OFF AND 25


24:10.891 --> 24:12.125
SURCHARGE ON BUSINESS TAX AND I


24:12.192 --> 24:15.528
THINK IT WAS OVER TWO HOURS.


24:15.595 --> 24:16.930
AGAIN WITH A TWO-THIRDS


24:16.997 --> 24:18.431
REQUIREMENT A LOT OF THAT


24:18.498 --> 24:20.199
WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED.


24:20.267 --> 24:23.002
>> LET ME COME BACK TO YOUR


24:23.070 --> 24:23.836
QUESTION.


24:23.904 --> 24:25.171
LET'S ASSUME THAT THE MICHIGAN


24:25.239 --> 24:26.605
BUSINESS TAX WAS STILL HERE.


24:26.706 --> 24:28.707
NOW THIS PROPOSAL CAME UP.


24:28.775 --> 24:30.176
THEN WHEN WE SURVEYED OUR


24:30.244 --> 24:32.178
MEMBERS, I WOULD MAKE THE


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CASE -- BECAUSE WE DO A PRO AND


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CON ARGUMENT AND OUR MEMBERS


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VOTE -- I WOULD HAVE MADE THE


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ARGUMENT WITH THIS IN PLACE, YOU


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WILL BE STUCK WITH A MICHIGAN


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BUSINESS TAX.


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>> Tim: WHAT WE HAVE HAPPENED TO


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THE NUMBERS?


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>> I THINK THE NUMBERS WOULD


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HAVE SHIFTED.


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WHEN MEMBERS ARE OPINING THE


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SINGLE BUSINESS TAX TO COME BACK


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YOU KNOW YOU HAVE A BAD


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SITUATION.


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>> THE LEGISLATURE COULD PASS


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RESOLUTION SUPPORT A TAX


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INCREASE FOR VOTERS TO DECIDE?


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>> CORRECT.


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>> WOULD YOUR GROUP RUN A


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CAMPAIGN FOR THAT?


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>> IT DEPENDS.


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I WOULD HAVE TO SEE WHAT THE


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NATURE OF THE TAX INCREASE AND


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THE REASONS WE WOULD SUPPORT IT.


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I DON'T KNOW.


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>> WHAT ABOUT SPENDING ON IT?


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>> I THINK THE STOP OVER STENGD.


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>> Tim: ARE YOU GOING TO RUN


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COMMERCIALS FOR A YES VOTE ON


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THIS?


25:28.468 --> 25:29.067
>> NO.


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>> Tim: THERE WILL BE NO ADS AT


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ALL?


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>> NO.


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>> ARE YOU PART OF A COALITION


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THERE WILL BE SPENDING?


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>> THERE WILL BE SPENDING.


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>> IT WILL COME FROM MR. MARUN?


25:40.480 --> 25:41.846
>> IT MAY.


25:41.914 --> 25:44.216
>> Tim: IS THAT TRUE ON OR IS


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THAT YOUR GUT TALKING?


25:46.152 --> 25:47.619
>> THAT IS MY GUT TALKING.


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>> WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER


25:49.655 --> 25:51.390
PROPOSALS WHO IS GOING TO PAYING


25:51.457 --> 25:52.024
THERE?


25:52.091 --> 25:53.225
>> I THINK THE BUSINESS


25:53.292 --> 25:55.394
COMMUNITIES, YOU'VE HEARD THE


25:55.461 --> 25:58.497
NUMBERS BETWEEN $30-50 MILLION


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BEING RAISED BY ORGANIZED LABOR.


26:00.500 --> 26:02.699
>> Tim: I HAVE TO GET OUT OF


26:02.767 --> 26:04.068
HERE.


26:04.136 --> 26:05.769
THANKS FOR JOINING US.


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DON'T FORGET WE HAVE GENE KLEM


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WILL BE SITTING ON THAT CHAIR.


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SEE YOU NEXT WEEK FOR "OFF THE


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RECORD".


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¶


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¶


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¶


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¶


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¶


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Ñóñ