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>>> WELCOME BACK.

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OFF THE RECORD STARTS RIGHT NOW.

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>> ON THE PANEL THIS WEEK WE

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HAVE SUE DEMAS AND BILL

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BALLENGER ALONG WERE CHAD

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LIVENGOOD.

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HERE IS THE RUNDOWN.

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A NEW PRESIDENTIAL POLL IN

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MICHIGAN, AN UPDATE ON THE U.S.

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SENATE RACE AND LATER ON,

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BUSINESS LOBBYIST IS PITCHING A

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TAX HIKE PLAN.

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ALL THIS AND MORE COMING UP

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RIGHT NOW, "OFF THE RECORD."

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¶

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¶

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>> Tim: THANK YOU JOE.

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WELCOME TO OUR PROGRAM.

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POLLING DATA ON THE PRESIDENTIAL

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RACE IN MICHIGAN.

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LET'S TAKE A PEEK.

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>> IN THE HEAD TO HEAD MATCH-UP.

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IT'S 47% FOR OBAMA AND 42% FOR

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MR. ROMNEY WITH A 4% MARGIN OF

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ERROR.

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HOWEVER, WITH THE IMPORTANT

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FEMALE VOTERS IT'S MR. OBAMA

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WITH A 7% LEAD AND LEAD WITH

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INDEPENDENT VOTERS.

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ACROSS THE STATE THE PRESIDENT

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LEADS IN DETROIT, HAS NARROW

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LEAD IN WEST MICHIGAN AND

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LANSING HE ENJOYS A 47% TO 40%

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SPREAD.

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BUT POLTSD ALSO REVEAL THAT IN

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OAKLAND COUNTY.

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REPUBLICAN TERRITORY, MR. ROMNEY

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IS LOSING BY 16 POINTS.

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>> THE POLLS ARE TRYING TO DRIVE

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THE DEBATE AND ELECTION.

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>> SO YOU DON'T BELIEVE YOUR GUY

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IS BEHIND IN OAKLAND COUNTY?

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>> I HAVE NO IDEA UNTIL I LOOK

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AT THE POLLS.

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>> ROMNEY IS LOWER WHERE HE

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SHOULD BE WITH WEST MICHIGAN BUT

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INDEPENDENTS ARE UNDECIDED.

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THERE IS A POSSIBILITY.

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>> MR. ROMNEY HAS A BIG DEAL

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WHETHER YOU ARE BETTER OFF FOUR

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YEARS AGO.

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37% SAY THEY ARE BETTER OFF AND

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40% SAY THEY ARE NOT.

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IRONICALLY FOR REPUBLICANS

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TAKING CREDIT MR. SNYDER TURNING

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THE STATE'S ECONOMY AROUND BUT

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THE PRESIDENT IS BENEFITING FROM

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THAT.

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>> OBAMA IS BENEFITING FROM THE

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FACT THAT MICHIGAN ARE DOING A

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LOT BETTER THAN THEY WERE TWO TO

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FOUR YEARS AGO, THEY ARE GIVING

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OBAMA ALMOST AS MUCH CREDIT AS

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SNYDER FOR DOING THAT.

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>> 49 DAYS AGO UNTIL THE POLL

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THAT REALLY COUNTS.

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>> Tim: IT SEEMS TO ME, THE

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PROBLEM IN OAKLAND COUNTY FOR

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MR. ROMNEY S IT HUGE?

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>> I THINK IT IS.

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WE HAVE A LOT OF SUBURBAN VOTERS

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THAT COULD GO EITHER WAY.

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2010 THEY WENT REPUBLICAN.

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THIS YEAR WAS ALL OF THE WOMEN

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AND REPUBLICANS TRYING TO GET

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THEM BACK.

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>> YOU HAVE SOME POLLING COMING

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OUT.

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ARE YOU COP SET I CAN WITH THE

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NUMBERS HERE?

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>> AND BIGGER MARGIN FOR OBAMA,

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52-38 ROUGHLY.

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>> Tim: IN THE HEAD TO HEAD?

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>> IN THE HEAD TO HEAD CITY TO.

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PRESIDENT IS GETTING A BIG SURGE

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IN WOMEN VOTERS ON HIS SIDE AND

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OAKLAND COUNTY IS GOING MORE IN

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HIS COLUMN.

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THE HOUSE DEMOCRATIC COMMITTEE

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IS REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS.

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THEY THINK THAT SOUTHERN SUBURBS

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AROUND DETROIT ARE WHERE THEY

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CAN PICK UP SOME SEATS.

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>> THERE IS A LOT OF POLLING OUT

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THERE.

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DEFINITELY HIS LEAD HAS GONE UP

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SINCE THE DNC.

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EPIC MRA HAS HIM UP BY TEN.

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>> THIS RACE IS NOT OVER?

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>> I DON'T THINK IT IS.

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THERE IS SOME QUESTION ABOUT THE

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POLL.

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DIDN'T THEY DO THE POLL -- THEY

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MAY HAVE OVERSAMPLED DEMOCRATS

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BY 14%.

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THERE IS WHAT I'VE HEARD.

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WELL, THAT IS WHAT I HAVE HEARD.

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BUT IN ANY EVENT I THINK

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PROBABLY THE POLL THAT YOU

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REPORTED THERE IN THE VIDEO IS

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MORE ACCURATE OF WHERE THE LAUGH

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IS PROBABLY IS.

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SUSAN IS RIGHT.

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MITT ROMNEY CAN'T DO WELL IN HIS

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OWN HOME STOMPING GROUNDS OF

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OAKLAND COUNTY HE HAS REAL

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PROBLEMS IN MICHIGAN.

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AGAIN, WE'RE INUNDATED WITH

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POLLS, THEY ARE GOING TO COULD

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KEEP OPENING IN.

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REMEMBER, JIMMY CARTER WAS AHEAD

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OF RONALD REAGAN UNTIL THE

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DEBATE AND THAT WAS IN OCTOBER.

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THERE IS LONG WAY TO GO AND

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THINGS CAN TURN AROUND BUT IT'S

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BEEN A BAD WEEK.

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>> WHAT ABOUT ROMNEY AND GALLUP

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WHERE CARTER WAS AHEAD POLLING

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REAGAN.

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YOU WOULD NEED SOMETHING VERY

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SIGNIFICANT.

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ESPECIALLY IN MICHIGAN TO TURN

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AROUND FOR ROMNEY.

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IT'S TOTALLY NOT OUT OF THE

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QUESTION.

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WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE EUROPEAN

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ECONOMY IS GOING TO DO.

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THERE COULD BE AN INCIDENT IN

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LIBYA.

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WE HAVE NO IDEA.

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IT DOES SEEM TO BE TROUBLING

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SINCE THIS SUMMER AND TRAILING

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IN OBAMA'S WAY.

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>> IT'S 47%% DEMOCRATS, 40%

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REPUBLICANS AND 16%

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INDEPENDENTS.

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>> IS EIGHT A PROBLEM OR NOT?

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>> THERE ARE SO MANY POLLS OUT

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THERE.

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THERE COULD BE SOMEWHERE IT'S

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ROUGHLY A DEBT HEAT.

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THERE ARE NOT MANY OF THOSE BUT

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THERE ARE SOME OBAMA IS AHEAD.

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EVERYBODY AGREES OBAMA IS AHEAD.

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THE ONLY QUESTION IS HOW MUCH.

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>> Tim: IF YOU ARE SITTING IN

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THE ROMNEY CAMP, GUYS WE HAVE A

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PROBLEM IN MICHIGAN.

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WE PROBABLY NEED TO MAKE A GOOD

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SHOWING THERE.

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WHAT DO WE DO?

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>> THEY NEED TO GET OUT AND

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CONNECT WITH VOTERS HERE.

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>> Tim: WHAT ABOUT THE, QUOTE,

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VICTORY CENTERS.

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>> HE NEEDS A LOT MORE.

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>> HE CAN WIN TECHNICALLY IF YOU

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LOOK AT THE NUMBERS WITHOUT

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WINNING MICHIGAN.

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IT'S HARD TO SEE OBAMA BEING

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ELECTED AS PRESIDENT IF HE

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DOESN'T WIN MICHIGAN.

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ROMNEY IS NOT GOING TO KIGS OFF

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MICHIGAN.

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I THINK HE IS GOING RUN IT LIKE

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GEORGE BUSH IN 2004, HE IS GOING

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TO REFUSE TO CONCEDE HE IS GOING

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TO LOSE MICHIGAN AND MAKE OBAMA

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WORK HERE.

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THE OTHER NIGHT, WILL BE ON THE

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GIBBS, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY

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WAS HERE, I THINK WE HAVE TO

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SPEND $10,000 IN MICHIGAN AND WE

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CAN STILL WIN.

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>> HE WAS WHISTLING FOR THE

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GRAVEYARD.

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[ LAUGHTER ]

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>> SINCE THE PRIMARY, THEY SPENT

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A GOOSE EGG WHICH IS BAD FOR THE

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ECONOMY.

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ROMNEY FOLKS HAVE KICKED IN.

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WE APPRECIATE THAT.

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>> YOU MENTIONED MIKE COX, ABOUT

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THE FLAP OVER THE 47%.

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IN ANOTHER WEEK NOBODY WILL

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REMEMBER THE STORY AND MOVE ON

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TO SOMETHING ELSE.

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IS HE ON TO SOMETHING?

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>> HE MAY BE.

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ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS

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SHOWING UP IN THE POLLS, VOTED

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IS COMING OFF THE DEMOCRATIC

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NATIONAL CONVENTION WHERE WE

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HEARD A LOT ABOUT THE AUTO

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INDUSTRY IN THAT CONVENTION.

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THERE WAS SOME ISSUES IN THE

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REPUBLICAN CONVENTION, THAT MAY

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HAVE NOT GONE OVER TOO WELL.

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ROMNEY HASN'T GIVEN INDEPENDENT

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VOTERS TO TALK ABOUT.

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>> Tim: HE HAS BUT NOT WHAT THEY

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WANT TO TALK ABOUT.

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>> IT'S PART OF THE 47%.

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>> JIM BLANCHARD SAYS I AM PART

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OF THE 47% AND I AM PAYING

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TAXES.

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WILL THIS BLOW OVER?

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>> EVERYTHING BLOWS OVER

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EVENTUALLY.

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THERE WILL BE SOMETHING NEW.

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RIGHT NOW IT'S GETTING A LOT OF

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PLAY.

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A LOT OF PEOPLE REALLY FEEL LIKE

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THIS IS LEGALLY MITT ROMNEY.

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>> THE REPUBLICANS ARE TROTTING

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OUT THAT PRESIDENT WANTS TO

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REDISTRIBUTE THE WEALTH.

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WILL THAT GET THE SAME LEGS AS

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THIS THING?

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>> IT WILL NOT.

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>> IT'S SOCIALIST.

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>> THEY HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL

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ALONG, IT HASN'T WORKED YET.

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LOOK, HE HAS GOT TO DO

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SOMETHING.

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HE COULD POSSIBLY -- THIS IS

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WHAT THE CONSERVATIVES AND

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REPUBLICANS HOPE -- CONVERTED

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THIS FIASCO INTO SOMETHING

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SPECTACULAR, LIKE DO A JUJITSU

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AND REFRAME THE WHOLE DEBATE.

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>> Tim: DOES HE MEAN IT?

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>> HE SOLIDIFIES THE BASE WITH

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THAT.

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>> HE CAN BASICALLY TURN NIGHT

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THE ARGUMENT THEY ARE PUSHING.

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WHICH IS WHAT THE REPUBLICANS

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BELIEVE IN GROWING JOBS FOR

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EVERYBODY.

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>> I AM NOT INTERESTED IN THESE

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PEOPLE.

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I BELIEVE IT HAS BEEN

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MISINTERPRETED.

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>> THAT LINE WAS IN THE CONTEXT

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I'M NOT GOING TO GET THEM.

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THEY ARE ALREADY GONE.

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>> THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS IN

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CAMPAIGNS.

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>> Tim: IS IT UNFAIR?

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>> OF COURSE IT'S UNFAIR.

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THERE IS POLITICS.

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YOU HAVE TO COME UP WITH

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SOMETHING ELSE TO COUNTER IT.

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THE PROBLEM IS ROMNEY HAS NOT

265
00:10:06,761 --> 00:10:09,997
BEEN NIMBLE ENOUGH TO PIVOT AND

266
00:10:10,065 --> 00:10:11,699
DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND GET

267
00:10:11,766 --> 00:10:13,201
PEOPLE TO FOCUS ON SOMETHING

268
00:10:13,268 --> 00:10:14,535
THAT IS GOING TO BE POSITIVE FOR

269
00:10:14,603 --> 00:10:15,103
HIM.

270
00:10:15,170 --> 00:10:17,205
HE CAN'T SEEM TO STOP SHOOTING

271
00:10:17,406 --> 00:10:18,206
HIMSELF IN THE FOOT.

272
00:10:18,273 --> 00:10:20,208
>> Tim: NUMBERS IN THE U.S.

273
00:10:20,309 --> 00:10:21,976
SENATE RACE?

274
00:10:22,077 --> 00:10:26,947
>> STABENOW WITH A 16-POINT LEAD

275
00:10:27,015 --> 00:10:28,983
OVER CONGRESSMAN HOEKSTRA.

276
00:10:29,084 --> 00:10:31,652
>> THAT IS REALLY BIG.

277
00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,088
>> WHY IS IT THAT BIG?

278
00:10:34,223 --> 00:10:38,659
>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT IF

279
00:10:38,727 --> 00:10:40,528
IT'S AN INDICATION OF A TREND.

280
00:10:40,596 --> 00:10:42,163
SHE GOT THE FARM BILL

281
00:10:42,231 --> 00:10:43,264
ENDORSEMENT.

282
00:10:43,332 --> 00:10:46,300
HOEKSTRA HAS NEVER TAKEN OFF.

283
00:10:46,401 --> 00:10:48,869
HIS CAMPAIGN NEVER CAUGHT FIRE.

284
00:10:48,937 --> 00:10:50,671
SHE IS SITTING ON HER MONEY.

285
00:10:50,739 --> 00:10:55,109
SHE HASN'T SPENT ANYTHING.

286
00:10:55,177 --> 00:10:57,145
>> Tim: HOW DOES HOEKSTRA WIN

287
00:10:57,246 --> 00:10:57,945
THIS THING?

288
00:10:58,013 --> 00:11:04,351
>> THAT IS AN EXCELLENT QUESTION

289
00:11:04,418 --> 00:11:09,389
WE SHOULD HAVE HIM BACK.

290
00:11:09,457 --> 00:11:13,193
>> THEY SHOULD DO THE DEBATES.

291
00:11:13,294 --> 00:11:15,728
>> THEY DON'T HAVE THE FORMAT.

292
00:11:15,796 --> 00:11:17,364
>> THEY SCHEDULED ON TWO.

293
00:11:17,465 --> 00:11:19,299
>> THE JOINT ECONOMIC CLUB AND

294
00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:20,400
ON THE WEST SIDE.

295
00:11:20,501 --> 00:11:25,038
>> DO THEY HAVE A DATE?

296
00:11:25,105 --> 00:11:26,506
>> THAT IS WHAT I MEAN.

297
00:11:26,574 --> 00:11:28,308
>>> WE TAKE NO QUESTIONS FROM

298
00:11:28,409 --> 00:11:31,044
REPORTERS AND QUESTIONS FROM THE

299
00:11:31,145 --> 00:11:31,645
AUDIENCE.

300
00:11:31,712 --> 00:11:33,780
>> THE THING THAT IS HURTING

301
00:11:33,881 --> 00:11:35,815
PETE HOEKSTRA IS THE SAME THING

302
00:11:35,916 --> 00:11:38,051
HURTING MITT ROMNEY.

303
00:11:38,118 --> 00:11:41,921
STABENOW HAS A 2-1 MARGIN IN

304
00:11:41,989 --> 00:11:43,456
WOMEN OVER PETE HOEKSTRA.

305
00:11:43,524 --> 00:11:45,458
>> THE REASON WHY IS THERE IS

306
00:11:45,526 --> 00:11:47,360
MORE DEMOCRATS IN YOUR SURVEY

307
00:11:47,428 --> 00:11:49,529
PEOPLE HAVE MOVED INTO THAT

308
00:11:49,630 --> 00:11:50,797
COLUMN SINCE THE LAST POLLING.

309
00:11:50,864 --> 00:11:52,532
YOU HAVE WOMEN THAT IDENTIFY AS

310
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,302
INDEPENDENTS ARE NOW SHIFTING TO

311
00:11:55,369 --> 00:11:55,902
DEMOCRATS.

312
00:11:55,969 --> 00:11:58,338
>> IN AUGUST SURVEY IT WAS 39%

313
00:11:58,406 --> 00:12:01,074
DEMOCRATS, 32 REPUBLICAN AND 25

314
00:12:01,141 --> 00:12:01,973
INDEPENDENTS.

315
00:12:02,041 --> 00:12:03,609
INDEPENDENTS ARE SHIFTING OVER

316
00:12:03,710 --> 00:12:06,245
INTO THE DEMOCRATIC COLUMN.

317
00:12:06,313 --> 00:12:10,583
>> THEY AREN'T STAYING THERE.

318
00:12:10,650 --> 00:12:12,685
>> ANYTHING AT BALLOT PROPOSALS

319
00:12:12,752 --> 00:12:13,985
JUMPED OUT AT YOU?

320
00:12:14,053 --> 00:12:17,956
>> THE BRIDGE IS MAKING A

321
00:12:18,024 --> 00:12:18,557
COMEBACK.

322
00:12:18,625 --> 00:12:20,158
>> Tim: TOWARD 50%?

323
00:12:20,227 --> 00:12:21,793
>> 49.9.

324
00:12:21,861 --> 00:12:23,529
>> YOU HAVE TO BE OVER 60.

325
00:12:23,630 --> 00:12:29,067
>> THEY WERE AT 42 1/2 BACK IN

326
00:12:29,135 --> 00:12:31,903
AUGUST.

327
00:12:31,971 --> 00:12:35,941
ITS COMEBACK IS POSSIBLY LINKED

328
00:12:36,008 --> 00:12:37,376
TO THEIR ADS.

329
00:12:37,444 --> 00:12:41,179
THEY SPENT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

330
00:12:41,248 --> 00:12:43,616
THEIR ADS ARE TELLING PEOPLE WHY

331
00:12:43,717 --> 00:12:45,817
THEY ARE VOTING YES.

332
00:12:45,918 --> 00:12:47,819
FEATURING INTERVIEWS PEOPLE

333
00:12:47,887 --> 00:12:49,221
SAYING WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH

334
00:12:49,289 --> 00:12:52,691
MONEY FOR SCHOOLS BUT HOW COULD

335
00:12:52,759 --> 00:12:58,096
WE HAVE ENOUGH MONEY FOR BRIDGE.

336
00:12:58,164 --> 00:13:00,633
NOBODY IS POINTING THAT OUT.

337
00:13:00,700 --> 00:13:02,967
THEY ARE BENEFITING AND PEOPLE

338
00:13:03,034 --> 00:13:04,935
I'VE INTERVIEWED THEY SAY THOSE

339
00:13:05,003 --> 00:13:06,604
ADS RESONATE.

340
00:13:06,672 --> 00:13:08,172
THE OTHER PEOPLE THAT LIKE THOSE

341
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:09,507
ADS IS LABOR UNIONS.

342
00:13:09,608 --> 00:13:12,843
THAT MATCHES THEIR MESSAGE ON

343
00:13:12,944 --> 00:13:14,445
PROPOSAL 12 ON COLLECTIVE

344
00:13:14,513 --> 00:13:16,046
BARGAINING THERE IS SOME KIND OF

345
00:13:16,114 --> 00:13:18,349
AN ASSAULT BY SPECIAL INTERESTS

346
00:13:18,417 --> 00:13:22,353
ON PUBLIC WORKERS, TEACHERS,

347
00:13:22,421 --> 00:13:22,887
FIREFIGHTERS.

348
00:13:22,954 --> 00:13:24,889
SO THE LABOR UNIONS LIKE THESE

349
00:13:24,956 --> 00:13:26,824
ADS BECAUSE IT'S RESONATES WITH

350
00:13:26,892 --> 00:13:28,726
THE SAME MESSAGE THEY ARE

351
00:13:28,794 --> 00:13:33,998
PUSHING AND THE UAW.

352
00:13:34,065 --> 00:13:36,801
>>> IT MAY BE A POINT.

353
00:13:36,902 --> 00:13:38,202
>> I DON'T SEE IN THE

354
00:13:38,270 --> 00:13:38,603
CONNECTION.

355
00:13:38,671 --> 00:13:40,204
>> I JUST MISSED IT.

356
00:13:40,306 --> 00:13:42,674
>> FINALLY LINK UP ON A YES

357
00:13:42,741 --> 00:13:44,709
CAMPAIGN BUT NOBODY COULD GET IT

358
00:13:44,777 --> 00:13:45,209
TOGETHER.

359
00:13:45,277 --> 00:13:47,578
>> Tim: IS THE NO RESONATE GO IS

360
00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:49,414
THAT IS WHAT DOMINATING?

361
00:13:49,481 --> 00:13:50,548
>> I THINK IT IS.

362
00:13:50,616 --> 00:13:53,651
I THINK IT'S HURTING PROPOSAL 1,

363
00:13:53,719 --> 00:13:56,053
A FINANCIAL MANAGER, THAT

364
00:13:56,154 --> 00:13:57,789
SUPPORT HAS DROPPED.

365
00:13:57,856 --> 00:13:59,691
ALL THOSE OVER IS HOVERING

366
00:13:59,792 --> 00:14:02,091
AROUND THE HIGH 40s AND 50s.

367
00:14:02,193 --> 00:14:03,960
YOU NEED MORE OF A CUSHION THAN

368
00:14:04,028 --> 00:14:05,295
THAT GOING INTO AN ELECTION.

369
00:14:05,363 --> 00:14:06,630
>> IT'S VERY HARD TO POLL ON

370
00:14:06,698 --> 00:14:08,598
THESE QUESTIONS.

371
00:14:08,666 --> 00:14:11,468
WE PROBABLY SEE A SURPRISE WITH

372
00:14:11,536 --> 00:14:12,602
SOMETHING ON ELECTION DAY.

373
00:14:12,670 --> 00:14:16,773
>> YOU CANNOT POLL BALLOTS.

374
00:14:16,874 --> 00:14:18,508
>> WHEN WE HAD THE SUMMARIES

375
00:14:18,676 --> 00:14:20,310
BASED ON THE PETITIONS, NOW WE

376
00:14:20,378 --> 00:14:21,578
HAVE HUNDRED WORD STATEMENTS

377
00:14:21,646 --> 00:14:24,280
FROM THE BALLOTS AND READ THOSE

378
00:14:24,349 --> 00:14:27,050
TO PEOPLE, IT'S VERY EASY TO GET

379
00:14:27,151 --> 00:14:27,584
LOST.

380
00:14:27,719 --> 00:14:30,220
>> ONE OF SUBTLE THINGS YOU CAN

381
00:14:30,321 --> 00:14:34,290
POLL FOR IS IF THIS BRIDGE IS A

382
00:14:34,359 --> 00:14:36,693
LITTLE TOWN CALLED DETROIT.

383
00:14:36,794 --> 00:14:38,127
ANYTHING WITH A DSM IS ON IT

384
00:14:38,229 --> 00:14:39,929
OTHER THAN THE TIGERS?

385
00:14:39,997 --> 00:14:42,399
>> MAYBE PEOPLE THINK PEOPLE

386
00:14:42,467 --> 00:14:45,335
FROM DETROIT WILL LEAVE TO

387
00:14:45,436 --> 00:14:45,869
CANADA.

388
00:14:45,936 --> 00:14:47,270
>> YOU COULD MAKE THAT ARGUMENT

389
00:14:47,338 --> 00:14:48,605
BUT I'M NOT SURE THEY ARE GOING

390
00:14:48,706 --> 00:14:49,072
TO.

391
00:14:49,139 --> 00:14:50,474
>> AM I ON TO SOMETHING?

392
00:14:50,541 --> 00:14:53,443
>> YOU THINK THE STATE IS GOING

393
00:14:53,511 --> 00:14:54,811
TO VOTED AGAINST THIS.

394
00:14:54,879 --> 00:14:56,145
>> I WOULDN'T BET THAT.

395
00:14:56,213 --> 00:14:59,215
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT OF

396
00:14:59,283 --> 00:15:00,917
STATE WHO ARE RETIRED.

397
00:15:00,985 --> 00:15:03,051
A INTERVIEWED A MAN IN TRAVERSE

398
00:15:03,119 --> 00:15:04,319
CITY LAST NIGHT.

399
00:15:04,388 --> 00:15:06,288
HE READS THE DETROIT PAPERS

400
00:15:06,356 --> 00:15:08,858
PRETTY REGULARLY.

401
00:15:08,958 --> 00:15:09,792
>> HE IS THE ONE.

402
00:15:09,860 --> 00:15:13,696
>> HE KNOWS WHO IS BEHIND THE

403
00:15:13,764 --> 00:15:16,899
BRIDGE AMENDMENT.

404
00:15:16,966 --> 00:15:20,235
>> ONE POLL HAS 64%.

405
00:15:20,303 --> 00:15:23,939
>> LET'S GO WITH CHARLIE OWENS.

406
00:15:24,007 --> 00:15:26,208
>> CHARLIE OWENS IS THE STATE

407
00:15:26,276 --> 00:15:28,544
DIRECTOR OF THE MICHIGAN CHAPTER

408
00:15:28,612 --> 00:15:29,978
OF NFIB.

409
00:15:30,046 --> 00:15:31,914
HE HAS BEEN IN LANSING LOBBYIST

410
00:15:32,015 --> 00:15:33,749
FOR 25 YEARS AND IS CURRENTLY

411
00:15:34,017 --> 00:15:35,183
WORKING WITH A GROUP TRYING TO

412
00:15:35,251 --> 00:15:37,252
INSTALL A TWO-THIRDS VOTE TO

413
00:15:37,353 --> 00:15:38,854
RAISE TAXES AFRICAN-AMERICAN

414
00:15:38,922 --> 00:15:40,289
NATIVE OF ILLINOIS, MR. OWENS

415
00:15:40,356 --> 00:15:42,190
EARNED HIS UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE

416
00:15:42,325 --> 00:15:44,794
FROM NORTHERN ILLINOIS.

417
00:15:44,861 --> 00:15:46,762
>> Tim: MR. OWENS IS HERE

418
00:15:46,830 --> 00:15:48,130
BECAUSE THE PEOPLE THAT WERE

419
00:15:48,197 --> 00:15:49,498
FIGHTING THIS BALLOT YOU ARE A

420
00:15:49,566 --> 00:15:50,232
YES VOTE.

421
00:15:50,300 --> 00:15:52,535
CHAD HAS THE FIRST QUESTION?

422
00:15:52,602 --> 00:15:54,136
>> WHY SHOULD PEOPLE VOTE FOR

423
00:15:54,237 --> 00:15:54,637
THIS?

424
00:15:54,738 --> 00:15:56,371
>> I THINK THAT IF YOU CONSIDER

425
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,742
THE FACT THAT WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN

426
00:15:59,810 --> 00:16:01,009
WASHINGTON AND IN A LOT OF STATE

427
00:16:01,077 --> 00:16:03,344
AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, WHEN

428
00:16:03,446 --> 00:16:04,779
THERE IS A CRISIS IN THE BUDGET,

429
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:06,748
WHEN THERE IS A BUDGET SHORTFALL

430
00:16:06,816 --> 00:16:08,516
IT SEEMS LIKE TAX INCREASES ARE

431
00:16:08,584 --> 00:16:10,284
THE FIRST PLACES THAT ELECTED

432
00:16:10,352 --> 00:16:11,519
OFFICIALS LIKE TO GO.

433
00:16:11,587 --> 00:16:13,621
THIS WOULD MAKE IT A LITTLE

434
00:16:13,722 --> 00:16:15,356
HARDER FOR THEM TO DO THAT.

435
00:16:15,424 --> 00:16:16,925
OUR HOPE IS THAT WOULD FORCE

436
00:16:16,992 --> 00:16:19,093
THEM TO PRIORITIZE SPENDING AND

437
00:16:19,161 --> 00:16:19,994
OTHER THINGS.

438
00:16:20,062 --> 00:16:21,830
IF THEY CAN MAKE A CASE TO THE

439
00:16:21,897 --> 00:16:23,197
PEOPLE THEY HAVE DONE ALL THOSE

440
00:16:23,265 --> 00:16:23,731
THINGS.

441
00:16:23,799 --> 00:16:25,366
THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND THEY

442
00:16:25,434 --> 00:16:27,335
NEED A TAX INCREASE.

443
00:16:27,402 --> 00:16:29,236
THEY CAN GET A TAX INCREASE.

444
00:16:29,304 --> 00:16:30,572
>> IS THIS A PERSONAL

445
00:16:30,639 --> 00:16:33,307
INFORMATION OR NFID'S POSITION?

446
00:16:33,375 --> 00:16:37,679
>> THIS IS THEIR POSITION.

447
00:16:37,746 --> 00:16:39,814
>>> WOULD YOU VOTE YES ON IT OR

448
00:16:39,882 --> 00:16:40,482
NOT?

449
00:16:40,649 --> 00:16:42,617
>> I WOULD VOTE YES ON IT.

450
00:16:42,685 --> 00:16:44,418
>> THE OTHER PROPOSALS, WHERE DO

451
00:16:44,487 --> 00:16:48,255
YOU SIT IN WITH CHAMBER AND

452
00:16:48,323 --> 00:16:49,524
MICHIGAN MANUFACTURERS AND SMALL

453
00:16:49,592 --> 00:16:49,991
BUSINESS.

454
00:16:50,058 --> 00:16:52,494
HAVE YOU COALESCED AND UNIFIED

455
00:16:52,595 --> 00:16:56,764
IN ONE POSITION ON MORE THAN....

456
00:16:56,832 --> 00:16:58,533
>> ON ANYTHING?

457
00:16:58,601 --> 00:17:00,167
>> ACTUALLY THE BALLOT PROPOSAL?

458
00:17:00,235 --> 00:17:01,668
>> MOST OF THE TIME WE ARE ON

459
00:17:01,736 --> 00:17:02,769
THE SAME PAGE.

460
00:17:02,837 --> 00:17:05,438
WE SETTLE OUR POLICIES

461
00:17:05,540 --> 00:17:09,510
DIFFERENTLY THAN OTHER GROUPS BY

462
00:17:09,577 --> 00:17:10,577
SURVEYING OUR MEMBERS.

463
00:17:10,645 --> 00:17:12,178
THAT PUTS US IN A DIFFERENT

464
00:17:12,246 --> 00:17:13,313
PLACE QUITE OFTEN.

465
00:17:13,381 --> 00:17:15,549
THE SHORT ANSWER, WE AGREE WITH

466
00:17:15,617 --> 00:17:19,386
THOSE GROUPS ON TWO AND FOUR.

467
00:17:19,453 --> 00:17:20,186
VOTE NO.

468
00:17:20,321 --> 00:17:21,855
WE WANT TO SEE THE EMERGENCY

469
00:17:21,923 --> 00:17:23,557
MANAGER LAW LEFT ENACT WHICH

470
00:17:23,625 --> 00:17:27,093
WOULD BE YES VOTE ON 1.

471
00:17:27,161 --> 00:17:29,930
THE AREA WE DIFFICULT IS PROP 5

472
00:17:30,031 --> 00:17:31,331
ON TWO-THIRDS.

473
00:17:31,399 --> 00:17:34,267
WE HAVE NO POSITION ON THAT.

474
00:17:34,335 --> 00:17:36,469
>> WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER POSITION

475
00:17:36,538 --> 00:17:38,338
THE CHAMBER, THE BRIDGE

476
00:17:38,406 --> 00:17:39,039
PROPOSAL?

477
00:17:39,106 --> 00:17:40,741
>> I THINK SO.

478
00:17:40,808 --> 00:17:42,943
AGAIN, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A

479
00:17:43,011 --> 00:17:43,744
POSITION ON IT.

480
00:17:43,811 --> 00:17:46,046
I HAVEN'T BEEN PAYING AS MUCH

481
00:17:46,113 --> 00:17:46,880
ATTENTION.

482
00:17:46,948 --> 00:17:48,549
>> DO YOU FIND YOU ARE

483
00:17:48,616 --> 00:17:51,151
ACCIDENTALLY IN-SYNC WITH THESE

484
00:17:51,218 --> 00:17:53,687
GROUPS OR DO YOU SIT DOWN AT A

485
00:17:53,755 --> 00:17:55,255
TABLE AND BRAINSTORM, WE'RE

486
00:17:55,356 --> 00:17:59,259
GOING TO MARCH OUT ARM IN ARM?

487
00:17:59,326 --> 00:18:01,194
>> EARLY ON WE SAT DOWN AND

488
00:18:01,295 --> 00:18:03,395
LOOKED AT THE BALLOT PROPOSALS

489
00:18:03,496 --> 00:18:06,165
AND ANALYZE OPPORTUNITIES.

490
00:18:06,232 --> 00:18:08,834
WE WERE ALL WORKING IN THE SAME

491
00:18:08,936 --> 00:18:09,602
DIRECTION.

492
00:18:09,670 --> 00:18:10,402
MY CHALLENGE IS A LOT OF THESE

493
00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:13,405
GROUPS BECAUSE THEY SET POLICY

494
00:18:13,473 --> 00:18:15,741
TO BOARDS OF DIRECTORS OR

495
00:18:15,809 --> 00:18:17,043
LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEES.

496
00:18:17,110 --> 00:18:19,579
WHEN WE GET IN THE COMMITTEES,

497
00:18:19,646 --> 00:18:20,980
THEY SAY WE'RE GOING IN THIS

498
00:18:21,081 --> 00:18:21,647
DIRECTION.

499
00:18:21,748 --> 00:18:23,716
I SAY I THINK MY MEMBERS WILL GO

500
00:18:23,784 --> 00:18:25,384
IN THIS DIRECTION UNTIL I SURVEY

501
00:18:25,452 --> 00:18:26,485
THEM I DO NOT KNOW.

502
00:18:26,553 --> 00:18:30,322
>>> THE OTHER SIDE IS GOING TO

503
00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:32,825
BE MAKING MATTIE THE BAD GUY

504
00:18:32,893 --> 00:18:34,460
BECAUSE HE IS FUNDING THE TWO

505
00:18:34,527 --> 00:18:35,227
THIRDS VOTE?

506
00:18:35,295 --> 00:18:36,963
>> IT MAY BE A LIABILITY FOR THE

507
00:18:37,064 --> 00:18:37,463
PROPOSAL.

508
00:18:37,530 --> 00:18:38,864
IT'S NOT A LIABILITY FOR US.

509
00:18:38,966 --> 00:18:40,900
IF YOU GO BACK TO 2006 WHEN WE

510
00:18:40,968 --> 00:18:44,937
HAD THE STOPOVER SPENDING EFFORT

511
00:18:45,005 --> 00:18:48,074
IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER TO US

512
00:18:48,141 --> 00:18:49,008
HOW IT GOT THERE.

513
00:18:49,076 --> 00:18:50,576
WE'RE GOING TO VOTE WHAT IS IN

514
00:18:50,677 --> 00:18:51,577
FRONT OF US.

515
00:18:51,645 --> 00:18:53,646
>> IF A PROPOSAL IS ON THE

516
00:18:53,747 --> 00:18:55,214
BALLOT.

517
00:18:55,281 --> 00:18:56,882
IT'S OUR JOB.

518
00:18:56,950 --> 00:19:01,153
>> BUT HOW ABOUT HAVING HIM FUND

519
00:19:01,221 --> 00:19:01,620
IT?

520
00:19:01,687 --> 00:19:03,287
>> I DIDN'T SAY THAT.

521
00:19:03,355 --> 00:19:05,256
>> WHY MIGHT IT BE?

522
00:19:05,324 --> 00:19:06,891
>> THERE WAS ONE SPECIFIC

523
00:19:06,993 --> 00:19:08,693
INDIVIDUAL THAT PUT A LOT OF

524
00:19:08,761 --> 00:19:09,761
FUNDING FOR IT.

525
00:19:09,829 --> 00:19:11,730
THAT MAY BE A NEGATIVE FOR SOME

526
00:19:11,831 --> 00:19:13,064
PEOPLE.

527
00:19:13,132 --> 00:19:14,365
STOPOVER IT WAS OUT OF STATE

528
00:19:14,433 --> 00:19:15,366
GROUP THAT CAME IN.

529
00:19:15,434 --> 00:19:17,301
I THINK THAT SOME GROUPS REACT

530
00:19:17,369 --> 00:19:19,004
TO THAT NEGATIVELY AND SOME

531
00:19:19,071 --> 00:19:20,739
VOTERS MAY.

532
00:19:20,806 --> 00:19:23,942
>> LAST YEAR THE CENSUS THEY GOT

533
00:19:24,010 --> 00:19:27,245
A $1 BILLION TAX CUT AND TAX

534
00:19:27,312 --> 00:19:28,713
INCREASES FOR INDIVIDUALS.

535
00:19:28,781 --> 00:19:30,982
THAT COULDN'T HAPPEN UNDER

536
00:19:31,083 --> 00:19:32,083
PROPOSAL 5.

537
00:19:32,151 --> 00:19:33,584
WOULD THAT BE A BAD THING?

538
00:19:33,653 --> 00:19:34,753
>> IT WOULD BE.

539
00:19:34,820 --> 00:19:36,320
I HAVE HAD THE QUESTION PUT TO

540
00:19:36,388 --> 00:19:39,924
ME, IF WE HAD PROPOSAL 5 IN

541
00:19:39,992 --> 00:19:41,626
PLACE YOU WOULD HAVE GOTTEN RID

542
00:19:41,694 --> 00:19:44,162
OF THE MICHIGAN BUSINESS TAX AND

543
00:19:44,229 --> 00:19:47,032
GONE TO THE NEW TAX SYSTEM.

544
00:19:47,099 --> 00:19:49,067
I BELIEVE PROBABLY NOT.

545
00:19:49,135 --> 00:19:51,502
IF YOU GO BACK TO THE VOTED.

546
00:19:51,570 --> 00:19:53,705
LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR CAST THE TIE

547
00:19:53,773 --> 00:19:54,839
BREAKING VOTED.

548
00:19:54,974 --> 00:20:00,845
>> Tim: WHY WERE SUPPORTING IT?

549
00:20:00,913 --> 00:20:02,546
>> THAT WAS THEN AND THIS IS

550
00:20:02,647 --> 00:20:03,681
NOW.

551
00:20:03,782 --> 00:20:05,215
HERE WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE

552
00:20:05,283 --> 00:20:06,917
WE THINK WE HAVE MADE GREAT

553
00:20:07,018 --> 00:20:09,153
PROGRESS IN THE BUSINESS TAX

554
00:20:09,220 --> 00:20:10,487
CLIMATE IN THE STATE.

555
00:20:10,588 --> 00:20:14,591
NOW, WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT IT

556
00:20:14,659 --> 00:20:15,592
BEING JEOPARDIZED.

557
00:20:15,660 --> 00:20:16,393
>> YOU HAVE A REPUBLICAN

558
00:20:16,494 --> 00:20:17,761
GOVERNOR AND A LEGISLATURE THAT

559
00:20:17,829 --> 00:20:18,962
IS LIKELY TO BE REPUBLICAN.

560
00:20:19,030 --> 00:20:23,133
WHAT ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT?

561
00:20:23,234 --> 00:20:26,670
>> WELL, HISTORY HAS SHOWN THAT

562
00:20:26,738 --> 00:20:29,006
THESE THINGS DO EASTBOUND AND

563
00:20:29,074 --> 00:20:29,673
FLOW.

564
00:20:29,741 --> 00:20:34,211
I GO BACK BEING IN THIS DOWN TOO

565
00:20:34,278 --> 00:20:34,712
LONG.

566
00:20:34,946 --> 00:20:37,280
I REMEMBER IN THE ENGLER

567
00:20:37,348 --> 00:20:39,116
ADMINISTRATION WE HAD SO MUCH

568
00:20:39,217 --> 00:20:40,851
MONEY WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT

569
00:20:40,985 --> 00:20:42,452
TO DO WITH IT.

570
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,154
YOU WERE THERE.

571
00:20:44,222 --> 00:20:47,124
AT THAT POINT IT WAS PA FIGHT

572
00:20:47,225 --> 00:20:51,128
OVER WHICH TAX CUT HOW LOW DO WE

573
00:20:51,196 --> 00:20:53,396
MAKE THE INCOME TAX.

574
00:20:53,464 --> 00:20:56,299
OUR CONCERN IS EVEN WITH THE

575
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:57,534
FISCAL RESPONSIBILITIES SHOWN BY

576
00:20:57,602 --> 00:20:59,036
THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION AND

577
00:20:59,104 --> 00:21:01,904
LEGISLATURE, WITHIN A FEW YEARS

578
00:21:01,972 --> 00:21:03,973
OR MORE, WE COULD BE BACK INTO A

579
00:21:04,074 --> 00:21:06,275
SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE

580
00:21:06,343 --> 00:21:08,845
SURPLUSES.

581
00:21:08,912 --> 00:21:13,582
WE LOOK AH THE LITTLE SURPLUS.

582
00:21:13,650 --> 00:21:14,951
>> Tim: THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO

583
00:21:15,018 --> 00:21:16,986
WOULD WORRY ABOUT A TAX HIKE?

584
00:21:17,054 --> 00:21:19,455
>> BUT THE TEMPTATION TO SPEND

585
00:21:19,522 --> 00:21:20,356
RISES AGAIN.

586
00:21:20,457 --> 00:21:23,325
THAT LEADS AT SOME POINT THE

587
00:21:23,393 --> 00:21:25,294
SURPLUS IS SPENT AND THEN WE

588
00:21:25,362 --> 00:21:26,629
HEAD INTO A DEFICIT.

589
00:21:26,696 --> 00:21:28,731
>> Tim: HOW ABOUT ON THE OUTSIDE

590
00:21:28,799 --> 00:21:30,199
LOOKING INTO AND EVERYBODY IN

591
00:21:30,300 --> 00:21:32,135
TOWN IS AGAINST THIS PROPOSAL?

592
00:21:32,202 --> 00:21:34,403
>> WE'RE THE ONLY GROUP THAT

593
00:21:34,504 --> 00:21:35,738
SUPPORTS TERM LIMITS.

594
00:21:35,839 --> 00:21:37,273
>> IN CALIFORNIA FOR INSTANCE

595
00:21:37,340 --> 00:21:41,310
THEY HAVE TERM LIMITS.

596
00:21:41,411 --> 00:21:43,112
THEY ALSO HAVE A TWO-THIRDS

597
00:21:43,180 --> 00:21:43,679
AMENDMENT.

598
00:21:43,781 --> 00:21:45,547
HAD A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR FOR

599
00:21:45,615 --> 00:21:46,883
EIGHT YEARS AND THEY STILL HAVE

600
00:21:46,984 --> 00:21:48,885
BEEN CRITICIZED AS BEING THE

601
00:21:48,952 --> 00:21:50,052
WORST MANAGED STATE IN THE

602
00:21:50,154 --> 00:21:50,653
COUNTRY.

603
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,823
THAT HASN'T CHANGED OBVIOUSLY.

604
00:21:53,891 --> 00:21:56,592
HAS THEIR VERSION OF PROPOSAL 5

605
00:21:56,660 --> 00:21:58,294
CONTRIBUTED OR IN YOUR

606
00:21:58,361 --> 00:21:59,561
ESTIMATION IS THERE SOMETHING

607
00:21:59,629 --> 00:22:00,429
ELSE GOING ON?

608
00:22:00,497 --> 00:22:01,930
>> THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE GOING

609
00:22:01,998 --> 00:22:02,430
ON.

610
00:22:02,498 --> 00:22:05,366
IF YOU ARE REFERRING TO PROP 13.

611
00:22:05,467 --> 00:22:07,803
THERE WAS PROPOSAL IT WAS 111

612
00:22:07,870 --> 00:22:10,272
THAT WAS PASSED IN 2000.

613
00:22:10,339 --> 00:22:14,242
WITHOUT GETTING INTO DETAIL IT

614
00:22:14,310 --> 00:22:16,144
WAS SUPPOSE TO THAT THE GASOLINE

615
00:22:16,212 --> 00:22:18,980
TAX BUT THERE WAS A THING THAT

616
00:22:19,048 --> 00:22:20,816
MOVED THE LIMIT WHICH WAS A

617
00:22:20,917 --> 00:22:23,118
SPENDING LIMITATION.

618
00:22:23,219 --> 00:22:27,155
WHEN THEY SLIPPED OUT THE LIMIT,

619
00:22:27,223 --> 00:22:29,090
IT STRIPPED OUT THE SPENDING

620
00:22:29,158 --> 00:22:29,891
RESTRICTIONS.

621
00:22:29,959 --> 00:22:31,526
AFTER THAT HAD OCCURRED IN 2000

622
00:22:31,593 --> 00:22:34,462
WAS 30% INCREASE IN SPENDING

623
00:22:34,530 --> 00:22:37,833
UNDER BOTH GRAY DAVIS AND ARNOLD

624
00:22:37,934 --> 00:22:39,367
SCHWARZENEGGER, A REPUBLICAN.

625
00:22:39,468 --> 00:22:42,270
THIS ISN'T A PARTY ISSUE.

626
00:22:42,338 --> 00:22:44,239
>> WHAT IF TWO YEARS FROM NOW

627
00:22:44,373 --> 00:22:46,842
THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, NEVER

628
00:22:46,909 --> 00:22:48,710
KNOW, WE WANT TO CHANGE THIS TAX

629
00:22:48,777 --> 00:22:49,444
AGAIN.

630
00:22:49,511 --> 00:22:51,046
HOW ARE WE GOING TO DO THAT?

631
00:22:51,113 --> 00:22:53,081
>> WE HAVE TO GET TWO-THIRDS.

632
00:22:53,182 --> 00:22:54,883
>> HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO THAT?

633
00:22:54,951 --> 00:22:57,752
>> LET'S GO BACK TO COLORADO, A

634
00:22:57,820 --> 00:22:58,854
TAX BILL OF RIGHTS.

635
00:22:58,955 --> 00:23:01,289
PEOPLE SAID IT WAS A BAD IDEA.

636
00:23:01,357 --> 00:23:02,990
I BELIEVE THEY PASSED THAT IN

637
00:23:03,058 --> 00:23:03,924
1992.

638
00:23:03,992 --> 00:23:07,962
IN 2005 A CASE, THE GOVERNOR AND

639
00:23:08,029 --> 00:23:09,296
LEGISLATURE MADE A INDICATES TO

640
00:23:09,364 --> 00:23:11,232
THE PEOPLE THAT THEY NEEDED THAT

641
00:23:11,299 --> 00:23:13,533
SPENDING LIMIT RAISED OR THEY

642
00:23:13,601 --> 00:23:16,270
NEEDED IT EX EMPTIED SO THEY

643
00:23:16,338 --> 00:23:17,537
COULD BALANCE THEIR BUDGET.

644
00:23:17,605 --> 00:23:19,206
THEY MADE A GOOD CASE TO THE

645
00:23:19,274 --> 00:23:19,874
PEOPLE.

646
00:23:20,008 --> 00:23:23,410
THE PEOPLE RESPONDED AND THEY

647
00:23:23,478 --> 00:23:25,445
OVERRODE THE SPENDING LIMIT.

648
00:23:25,513 --> 00:23:28,515
>> 13 SENATORS CAN BLOCK THE

649
00:23:28,583 --> 00:23:30,017
POLICY THAT THE MAJORITY MAY

650
00:23:30,118 --> 00:23:30,450
WANT?

651
00:23:30,518 --> 00:23:31,685
>> THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT

652
00:23:31,753 --> 00:23:33,420
BUT AGAIN, THAT GOES HAND IN

653
00:23:33,488 --> 00:23:36,623
HAND WITH OUR BELIEF THAT YOU

654
00:23:36,691 --> 00:23:39,226
NEED A HIGHER TLRB HOLD TO

655
00:23:39,327 --> 00:23:39,927
INCREASE TAXES.

656
00:23:39,995 --> 00:23:42,562
>> Tim: WHY IS MAJORITY RULE IS

657
00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:44,131
NOT OKAY WHEN IT COMES TO TAXES

658
00:23:44,199 --> 00:23:47,067
WHEN THAT IS ESSENCE OF OUR

659
00:23:47,135 --> 00:23:48,202
DEMOCRACY?

660
00:23:48,270 --> 00:23:54,041
>> IT'S BECAUSE IT'S TOO EASY.

661
00:23:54,109 --> 00:23:55,475
>> LOOK AT THE FIGHT WE HAD IN

662
00:23:55,543 --> 00:23:56,476
2007.

663
00:23:56,544 --> 00:23:59,179
YOU ALMOST HAD FIST FIGHTS ON

664
00:23:59,247 --> 00:24:00,014
THE FLOOR.

665
00:24:00,081 --> 00:24:02,382
IT HASN'T BEEN EXTREMELY EASY TO

666
00:24:02,449 --> 00:24:03,383
RAISE TAXES HERE?

667
00:24:03,450 --> 00:24:07,353
>> NO, BUT IN 2007 WE ENDED UP

668
00:24:07,454 --> 00:24:10,823
WITH A INCOME TAX OFF AND 25

669
00:24:10,891 --> 00:24:12,125
SURCHARGE ON BUSINESS TAX AND I

670
00:24:12,192 --> 00:24:15,528
THINK IT WAS OVER TWO HOURS.

671
00:24:15,595 --> 00:24:16,930
AGAIN WITH A TWO-THIRDS

672
00:24:16,997 --> 00:24:18,431
REQUIREMENT A LOT OF THAT

673
00:24:18,498 --> 00:24:20,199
WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED.

674
00:24:20,267 --> 00:24:23,002
>> LET ME COME BACK TO YOUR

675
00:24:23,070 --> 00:24:23,836
QUESTION.

676
00:24:23,904 --> 00:24:25,171
LET'S ASSUME THAT THE MICHIGAN

677
00:24:25,239 --> 00:24:26,605
BUSINESS TAX WAS STILL HERE.

678
00:24:26,706 --> 00:24:28,707
NOW THIS PROPOSAL CAME UP.

679
00:24:28,775 --> 00:24:30,176
THEN WHEN WE SURVEYED OUR

680
00:24:30,244 --> 00:24:32,178
MEMBERS, I WOULD MAKE THE

681
00:24:32,246 --> 00:24:34,414
CASE -- BECAUSE WE DO A PRO AND

682
00:24:34,548 --> 00:24:37,116
CON ARGUMENT AND OUR MEMBERS

683
00:24:37,184 --> 00:24:38,384
VOTE -- I WOULD HAVE MADE THE

684
00:24:38,452 --> 00:24:40,019
ARGUMENT WITH THIS IN PLACE, YOU

685
00:24:40,087 --> 00:24:42,422
WILL BE STUCK WITH A MICHIGAN

686
00:24:42,622 --> 00:24:43,356
BUSINESS TAX.

687
00:24:43,457 --> 00:24:44,924
>> Tim: WHAT WE HAVE HAPPENED TO

688
00:24:44,992 --> 00:24:45,591
THE NUMBERS?

689
00:24:45,659 --> 00:24:49,062
>> I THINK THE NUMBERS WOULD

690
00:24:49,129 --> 00:24:51,264
HAVE SHIFTED.

691
00:24:51,332 --> 00:24:53,632
WHEN MEMBERS ARE OPINING THE

692
00:24:53,733 --> 00:24:55,301
SINGLE BUSINESS TAX TO COME BACK

693
00:24:55,369 --> 00:24:57,470
YOU KNOW YOU HAVE A BAD

694
00:24:57,537 --> 00:24:58,037
SITUATION.

695
00:24:58,105 --> 00:25:00,173
>> THE LEGISLATURE COULD PASS

696
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:01,774
RESOLUTION SUPPORT A TAX

697
00:25:01,842 --> 00:25:03,442
INCREASE FOR VOTERS TO DECIDE?

698
00:25:03,542 --> 00:25:04,242
>> CORRECT.

699
00:25:04,310 --> 00:25:06,278
>> WOULD YOUR GROUP RUN A

700
00:25:06,346 --> 00:25:07,145
CAMPAIGN FOR THAT?

701
00:25:07,213 --> 00:25:08,213
>> IT DEPENDS.

702
00:25:08,281 --> 00:25:10,048
I WOULD HAVE TO SEE WHAT THE

703
00:25:10,116 --> 00:25:11,716
NATURE OF THE TAX INCREASE AND

704
00:25:11,784 --> 00:25:13,452
THE REASONS WE WOULD SUPPORT IT.

705
00:25:13,519 --> 00:25:14,853
I DON'T KNOW.

706
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,491
>> WHAT ABOUT SPENDING ON IT?

707
00:25:19,558 --> 00:25:24,262
>> I THINK THE STOP OVER STENGD.

708
00:25:24,330 --> 00:25:26,098
>> Tim: ARE YOU GOING TO RUN

709
00:25:26,165 --> 00:25:27,765
COMMERCIALS FOR A YES VOTE ON

710
00:25:27,833 --> 00:25:28,367
THIS?

711
00:25:28,468 --> 00:25:29,067
>> NO.

712
00:25:29,168 --> 00:25:31,136
>> Tim: THERE WILL BE NO ADS AT

713
00:25:31,204 --> 00:25:31,803
ALL?

714
00:25:31,904 --> 00:25:32,404
>> NO.

715
00:25:32,472 --> 00:25:35,207
>> ARE YOU PART OF A COALITION

716
00:25:35,274 --> 00:25:36,541
THERE WILL BE SPENDING?

717
00:25:36,642 --> 00:25:37,775
>> THERE WILL BE SPENDING.

718
00:25:37,843 --> 00:25:40,412
>> IT WILL COME FROM MR. MARUN?

719
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:41,846
>> IT MAY.

720
00:25:41,914 --> 00:25:44,216
>> Tim: IS THAT TRUE ON OR IS

721
00:25:44,283 --> 00:25:46,084
THAT YOUR GUT TALKING?

722
00:25:46,152 --> 00:25:47,619
>> THAT IS MY GUT TALKING.

723
00:25:47,686 --> 00:25:49,587
>> WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER

724
00:25:49,655 --> 00:25:51,390
PROPOSALS WHO IS GOING TO PAYING

725
00:25:51,457 --> 00:25:52,024
THERE?

726
00:25:52,091 --> 00:25:53,225
>> I THINK THE BUSINESS

727
00:25:53,292 --> 00:25:55,394
COMMUNITIES, YOU'VE HEARD THE

728
00:25:55,461 --> 00:25:58,497
NUMBERS BETWEEN $30-50 MILLION

729
00:25:58,564 --> 00:26:00,432
BEING RAISED BY ORGANIZED LABOR.

730
00:26:00,500 --> 00:26:02,699
>> Tim: I HAVE TO GET OUT OF

731
00:26:02,767 --> 00:26:04,068
HERE.

732
00:26:04,136 --> 00:26:05,769
THANKS FOR JOINING US.

733
00:26:05,837 --> 00:26:10,007
DON'T FORGET WE HAVE GENE KLEM

734
00:26:10,075 --> 00:26:11,708
WILL BE SITTING ON THAT CHAIR.

735
00:26:11,776 --> 00:26:14,211
SEE YOU NEXT WEEK FOR "OFF THE

736
00:26:14,279 --> 00:26:14,678
RECORD".

737
00:26:14,746 --> 00:26:17,915
¶

738
00:26:17,982 --> 00:26:23,120
¶

739
00:26:23,188 --> 00:26:26,090
¶

740
00:26:26,191 --> 00:26:29,560
¶

741
00:26:29,627 --> 00:26:31,495
¶

742
00:26:31,496 --> 00:28:04,353


743
00:28:04,354 --> 00:28:04,386


744
00:28:04,387 --> 00:28:08,387
Ñóñ