(bright music)

(upbeat music)

- [Narrator]
Welcome back to OTR.

Our guest this week
is the Chairperson

of the Oakland County
Republican Party,

former state representative
Rocky Raczkowski.

On the OTR panel,

MSU journalism majors,
Kyle Davidson, Sophia Lada,

and Daniel James.

Sitting with us as we get the
inside out, Off the Record.

- Production of Off the
Record is made possible

in part by Martin Waymire,

a full service strategic
communications agency,

partnering with clients
through public relations,

digital marketing, and
public policy engagement.

Learn more at martinwaymire.com.

And now this addition of Off
the Record with Tim Skubick.

- Thank you very much.

Welcome back to Off the Record.

You've seen these people before.

When did we do this earlier?

What month was that?

- February.

- Was it February?

- Wow!

It seems like eons
ago, doesn't it?

Kyle, what have you been up
to since we saw you last?

- Oh well, I mean
obviously think most

of us here are seniors,

so I've been pushing
for graduation,

but I mean in terms of
journalism and politics,

I've actually been working

on a media literacy
initiative with Pointer,

their media wise initiative.

So that's been
really interesting

and I've gotten to learn a
lot of interesting skills

about fact checking.

- [Tim] Media literacy?

- Yeah, yeah.

- [Tim] What is that?

- Well it's essentially
the best way

I can describe it as just
critical thinking skills

to use online when
you're scrolling

through social media,

because you're gonna see
a lot of misinformation

on there related to
a variety of things.

I know one of the things that
we've kind of been focusing

on fact checking
is, kind of some

of the information you see
about the Russia-Ukraine war,

some information you
might see about elections,

climate change or things
like the COVID-19 vaccine.

- So you're trying to
clean up the internet?

- Trying, trying.

It feels like an uphill
battle sometimes.

- I mean if you take all the
non-informed opinion out of it,

you got nothing.

(Kyle laughs)

You like that or not?

- You know Tim I just kind of
gotta work with what I have.

So ultimately we try
to stick with things

that are verifiably false.

We're a non-partisan initiative.

So a lot of times
we see something,

it's focused on checking things

that you can actually
double-check.

- So then when
you find that out,

what do you do with that?

- Well, usually what
I do when I'm hunting

for misinformation in the wild
is I kind of turned around

because part of our
initiative is that we go

to college students,

we go to colleges all
across the country

and we get presentations,
where do you find this stuff?

How do you spot it?

How do you check it?

So I'll generally save those
examples for my presentation.

I'll put them in
there and I'm like,

"Hey, here's an example of this

"and here's how you
can check it out."

- Well good.

It sounds like you're
doing good work.

Sophia, what are you up to?

- What am I up to?

Definitely a lot of
work and a lot of school

just trying to finish
strong and yeah,

still working at the LSJ.

So it's been pretty good
for sure since February.

- You're job hunting?

- Job hunting indeed.

Lots of applications out there
so we'll see what happens.

- Which one do you want
to come back with a yay?

- There are quite a few.

I'm definitely looking at
some news places in Detroit

because that's kind of
near where I'm from working

so working there would be cool,

but I'm also looking at
the Livingston Daily,

which is in the
Howell, Brighton area.

- Good luck to you.

- [Sophia] Thank you.

= I know you guys
will be successful.

Likewise.

And you got a gig.

You already got one.

- Yep.

I'm really excited.

I'm starting with Mier in
June after my study abroad

and I absolutely can't wait.

I think it should
be really awesome.

- And so since February, what
else have you been doing?

What stories are you working on?

- Oh gosh!

A lot of state
politics obviously

ahead of the GOP, the convention
in this month actually.

So a lot to do with that.

And then just
interviewing candidates.

Miers puts together a series
with a lot of the bios.

And so I've been
reaching out to a lot

of the candidates
in different races,

especially state house
and kind of seeing

what they have to say.

- Let me just point out
that we are recording this

on the 15th of April

so everything we say
that we get wrong,

we'll know after
the fact, right?

Let's talk about
this governor's race.

Give me some reactions as
to what you think's going

on out there.

Sophia?

- I mean, it's definitely
very interesting.

There's so many different
Republican candidates.

I know Tim in your email to us
you said you don't expect us

to know them all because
there are so many.

- [Tim] You cannot name them.

- Yeah.

But I know the three
of us before the show,

we were just talking a
bit about James Craig.

That's one that's definitely
pretty well known I'd say.

And I think it'll be
really interesting

to see where his
support comes from

because he does have
a history in Detroit,

but that is also an area
that tends to vote blue.

So I think that will
just be very interesting

to see what kind of
happens with that.

- What do you think?

- Oh gosh!

I've been really interested

in following the
Republican Party,

especially because you said
there are so many candidates.

Somebody stopped me on my
way to the gym yesterday

and asked me about
Tudor Dixon and--

- [Tim] Wait a minute.

Somebody stopped you?

- Yeah.

Collecting signatures
for her campaign.

- Whoa!

Goodness.

- Yeah.

Oh, it's like the eight

or ninth time I've been
stopped this week I think

in different ballot proposals,

campaigns, things like that.

- [Tim] Fascinating.

- I'm used to it,

but yeah, there's a lot
of people on campus.

So she's obviously someone
that's on my radar.

I also talk Rebandt yesterday.

I believe I'm pronouncing
his name right.

And he had a lot of really
interesting things to say too.

I know he just
turned in signatures

I wanna say sometime this week.

So getting him in right
before the deadline about.

- And what petition
people hit you?

- Oh gosh!

There was a few.

There was one for, excuse me,

the governor's abortion ban,

there one on, not
ban the opposite,

but I've had a few
for lone shark.

Oh gosh!

Everything under the sun really.

All the ballot proposals,
the Promote the Vote.

- Which gubernatorial
candidate have you heard

the most about?

- Oh gosh!

That's tough.

I mean obviously I
would say the governor,

the current governor who
we've been doing a lot

of writing about.
- Well that's a given.

- But in addition to her,

I would say I've heard
a lot about James Craig,

heard a lot about Tudor Dixon,

but I think there
are just so many.

It's hard to choose.

- Kyle, what's
your take on this?

- Yeah.

I definitely think it's
going to be interesting.

As Dani's mentioned,

I mean you hear a lot
about James Craig,

you hear a lot
about Tudor Dixon.

I'd definitely be
interested to see how,

obviously we haven't
quite gotten the
Trump endorsement yet.

But we did get that brief
shout out for Tudor Dixon.

So I'd be interested to see

if that's gonna sway the
election in any favor or...

I think a lot of people
recognize Craig as one

of the front runners if
not the front runner.

So I'd be interested to see,

how things are going to
work out between those two

or if we have another candidate

that could end up as
the Republican nominee.

- Have you had any chatter
with your colleagues,

your peers on the
race for governor?

Anybody?

- I mean, I think we always
touch on it a little bit

in the Monday meetings but--

- But those are journals.

(Dani laughs)

They're not real people.

I don't wanna,

you've obviously
figured this out

that we're not
real people, okay?

But my guess is
there's not a lot

of discussion going out there

among folks like you
and pick an age group.

They are not following this.

Do you get that sense?

- Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, even with the 2020
presidential election,

a bunch of my peers were
not really following it

until after those
primaries were over

and after the official
nomination was made.

So I could see people
becoming more involved

as the election gets closer,

but right now we're in April.

So many months out.

People are just not as
interested, young people aren't.

- We ran a story on
the program last week

that Donald Trump
was going to endorse

in the race for governor,

but get this.

Here's the deal.

He's allegedly made
a deal with John Yob

who's a political consultant.

If Yob can deliver the
attorney general nomination

for DePerno, okay?

Which Trump wants,

then Perno will deliver the
nomination for Yob's candidate

for governor, Perry Johnson.

Welcome to the real
world of politics.

Why did you go like that?

You went, mmh.

What do you think of that?

- I think that's
definitely interesting.

And that's not something
that I'd heard of prior.

So it's obviously, there's
a lot of things going on.

There's a lot of
moves being made

and obviously I've heard
about Perry Johnson,

I've read a few things
about his campaign

but when you think
of candidates,

that are out there and
loud and are available,

Johnson's not one of
the immediate people
that came to mind

apart from the,
what's the thing?

The quality, you know what
I'm thinking about, Tim.

- The equality.

- I'm trying to think of
the title that he's using.

- Oh!

The quality guru.

- Yeah.

Quality guru.

- Apart from that--

- Obviously the TV ads
haven't worked on you yet.

(Kyle laughs)

They say you've gotta
see the ads seven times

before you retain the content.

Maybe if you guys are smarter,

it might be two or three times.

But that really
makes a good point.

Okay, here's this guy's
running, I'm the guru candidate

and you're struggling to
figure out what the heck it was

and you're not alone, obviously.

You did some stuff on the
Republican Convention.

What was your
takeaway from that?

- Oh gosh!

A lot of what I
was most interested

in is how the
Republican Party split

ahead of the endorsements.

I think it's going to come down

to how strong the Trump
delegation is at the convention,

just because obviously he has
his strong pick for DePerno.

But I think there are

a few other really
interesting candidates

that may be a little
bit more moderate

and may appeal to
a greater majority

of the Republican Party.

So we'll see.

- Do you have a take
on what's happening?

They meet on the 23rd.

- I mean, it is like Dani said,

very interesting to watch.

It is kind of like
a divide right now.

I mean we can see even from
the pick for attorney general.

Some Republicans are
choosing to favor Tom Leonard

and others are choosing
to favor to DePerno

and obviously Trump
favors DePerno.

So it's just interesting to see

where is the
Republican Party going?

Does this divide come to an end

or is it just gonna continue
growing further apart?

- And the good news is
after April the 23rd,

we're gonna have a
really good sense

as to where this
thing is headed.

If Trump ends up
getting everybody

that he wants at the convention,

this guy will be invincible
going into November.

However, if he takes
a hit politically,

people are gonna sit back

and what are they gonna
say about Donald Trump?

- Well, if he does take a hit,

that might be a sign
that some people

think that Donald
Trump's power is fading.

Maybe he might not have

as strong of a hold over
Michigan as people say.

I mean obviously it depends,

we'll see nominees come out,

but if you miss one, two, more,

perhaps Donald Trump's
influence over Michigan

isn't as strong as
some people say it is.

- All right.

Well, let's pursue this
issue with our guest

that's called in,
Rocky Raczkowski,
former state lawmaker.

Now in the private sector and
a former Colonel in the army.

Is that right?

What was your MOS
representative?

- My MOS was when I was
enlisted, I was infantry.

And then I was commissioned
as an infantry officer

and a civil military
operations officer as well.

- Great.

You're not packing heat
on this show, are you?

- Well actually I was
told I wasn't allowed

to in my own home by you, Tim.

So I try not to listen
to you very much Tim,

but I think a few moments ago

you said that journalists
aren't real people.

I think these three are
fantastic future of journalism.

And I applaud you
for what you're doing

and I encourage you and
salute you for the careers

that you're gonna move forward.

- Rocky, thank you
for that kind words,

because they're
absolutely right.

Let me--

- Now I wasn't
speaking to you, Tim.

I was speaking to them.

- I understood.

I got the message.

You're subtle.

Okay.

You are subtle if nothing else.

Look at you, you endorse Tom
Leonard for attorney general.

I'm gonna guess that the Trump
people are not very happy

with you sir.

- Well I support the President
and I supported what he did

when he was in the White House.

- Wait a minute.

If you support the President,

how come you aren't
endorsing his guy for AG?

- Tim, can you let me
finish my statement?

I think you'd probably
get your answer

if you let me finish.

Like I said,

I support the President
and I support what he did

when he was in the White House,

but I also support Tom Leonard

as a soldier who fought
for people's rights

and most importantly
cherish rights.

We believe that every
individual has one vote

and every individual has the
right to make their own choice.

I support the President, I
appreciate what he's done

and I appreciate a lot
of things that he does.

The problem that is issued here

is that I have a relationship
with Tom Leonard,

I know who Tom Leonard is,

I've evaluated the
three candidates.

And as an individual,

that by the way, there's
three candidates in this race.

Let's not forget
there's Ryan Berman

as well from Oakland County.

And when I looked at
who has the best chance

to challenge Dana Nessel,

who's the best for
conservative policies

and American First policies

and actually has a record
of ethics and integrity,

I looked at Ryan
Berman and Tom Leonard

and Matt DePerno

and I said Tom Leonard's the one

that's gonna earn my support.

- In fact, if DePerno
gets the nomination,

the Republicans will
lose the AG race, right?

- No.

Not true at all.

Not true at all.

If Matt DePerno
wins the AG race,

I'm gonna support DePerno
for attorney general.

Anyone is better than the
embarrassment that gets drunk

at MSU U of M football games
than this attorney general.

- Isn't that a cheap
shot representative?

- Well, it would be a cheap
shot if it wasn't true.

It is true so it's
not a cheap shot.

This Attorney
General puts politics

above her job and
that's not cheap shot.

I'll take that all
the way to the bank

because it's absolutely fact.

- Jamie, question?

- I guess my question
for you is going

into the convention, are
you concerned about--

- Did I say Jamie?

I mean, Dani.

- You're totally fine.

- [Rocky] Dani.

Dani, Tim.

- [Tim] There you go.

Yeah, right.

There you go.

- Are you concerned
about the split,

between the two, I
guess, there are three,

but the two bigger candidates

and your endorsement and some

of the more moderate
Republican Party's endorsement

versus Donald Trump's?

- No, I'm really not.

And the interesting thing here
is that this also happened

to the Democratic Primary

or the Democratic Caucus
back in 20, what is it?

2018 when Dana Nessel
was not supposed

to be the candidate of choice.

And she got elected in November.

So when we look at this,

people get heated
over elections.

Obviously before the primaries

or before a party
picks a candidate,

there's gonna be
an internal battle.

But in the end we come
together and we fight

for the candidate
that will do the best

for what we believe in.

And I truly believe that
we will win in November.

- Yeah.

So you've talked a
lot about Dana Nessel.

This is kind of a
two part question,

but what do you
think is something

that she's done really
well during her time?

And then what are some things
that you think your pick

Tom Leonard could do
a really good job of

or better during his term
if he were to be elected?

- Well, what's interesting

Sophia is the nominating
convention is held

on Saturday, tomorrow in Grand
Rapids for the Republicans.

And you ask a very
interesting question,

what do I think Dana
Nessel has done well.

I think she's done
well performing

as a humorist clown as
the attorney general.

I don't mean this
in a negative way.

I truly try not to attack
anyone individually,

but she has made a art of
putting out jokes on her Twitter

and on her Facebook page,
which aren't always funny,

but she's tried to be funny.

I guess she's done a
fairly decent job at that.

As far as attorney general,

I don't think she's done
very many things very well.

By the way I do applaud her

for actually bringing
charges forward.

I believe she brought
the charges forward

on the Southfield City Clerk
who was brought forward

on election integrity charges

or switching absentee ballots.

I also believe

she brought some charges
forward on a couple individuals

that were charged with
election ballot tampering

or ballot fraud in 2020.

So there are a few things

that she's done or
her office has done.

But I think that Tom
Leonard brings number one,

a understanding of
how to serve people.

Not just Democrats,
but all people.

Tom Leonard won't put his
political agenda above the law.

If the law says something,
he will enforce that law.

Tom Leonard has a
level of culture.

He's not gonna go to a MSU
or U of M football game

and act improperly.

He won't find that
amongst Tom Leonard.

And he's definitely
a solid individual

that will put all men and women

on an equal playing field and
defend our rights as citizens

and will fight for
the state of Michigan

when we're basically
being challenged

by the federal government.

- Now Rocky, I have a question.

So I was just wondering,

what's kind of your view
of the landscape here,

especially related
to kind of the power

of that Trump endorsement.

I mean, do you think that
this could be concerning

for Leonard or do you think

that Leonard has a strong
enough base to kind

of overcome this
presidential endorsement?

- Well, let's be honest that
the President's endorsement

is very strong and a
lot of people are still,

if the election were held today,

let me backtrack and say this,

that Kyle if the
election were held today,

President Trump would
overwhelmingly win Michigan.

If people could take back
their votes from 2020

or whatever happened in
2020 and look forward

and see what Biden
and Harris have done

to the United States,

they'd say "We want
President Trump back

"because Michigan was on a
better footing a while back."

But getting back to
that endorsement,

that endorsement is very strong.

It's very strong.

A lot of people still
have a lot of respect

for the president,

but at the same time
we know Tom Leonard,

we know Ryan Berman,
we know Matt DePerno

and allow people to
make their decision.

Allow people who know
these individuals

and who have had an
interaction with them

to make up their own minds.

An endorsement means that
President Trump supports him.

That doesn't mean that I
blindly follow everything

that someone does

because I may have a
different perspective.

And as an individual
and as a Republican,

I believe in the freedom of
thought, freedom of expression.

We're not blindly following
every single comment

of every single leader,
be it from the state party

or whoever else.

That's what the Democrats do.

We're Republicans.

We think for ourselves.

- Well aren't there
some people that say

that Trump supporters do
blindly follow this gentleman.

Regardless of what he does,

they still love him.

- Well, I love him,
but that doesn't mean

that on this one issue...

Listen, Tim, I've been
married now 12 years.

I just celebrated my 12th
anniversary with my wife.

- Congratulations.

- And I should tell you that,

thank you very much by the way.

And by the way,
also congratulations

on 50 years of Off the Record.

You have been on air as long
as I've been alive but...

- I say thank you.

- You're welcome.

You're welcome.

I just wanted to
share that my wife

and I have a great relationship

and we respect each other,

we're equals to each other,
we listen to each other,

but we don't agree on
every single issue.

We may agree on
95% of the issues.

That doesn't mean that
we're gonna have a divorce,

or that doesn't mean that I
suddenly I'm anti my wife.

And that's what a party is.

It doesn't mean that
we blindly follow

every single individual
from leadership.

We vote for our
leaders to lead us,

but not to dictate to us.

And as much as I
support the president

and I support his endorsement,

it's not that I feel that same
way on that specific issue.

I support endorsement
for Cristina Coelho

for Secretary of State,
an outstanding individual.

I support his endorsement in
other individuals as well.

But on this specific one,

I've looked at all the
candidates and I've stayed quiet

until after our
county convention.

And after our county convention,
I came out and I said,

"You know what?

"As an individual, I
support Tom Leonard."

- Dani?

- Yeah, I think when talking
about Leonard versus DePerno,

one of the biggest things
that I've seen in terms

of DePerno's platform is
the 2020 election fraud.

And that's something
that I know not everyone

in the Republican
Party agrees on

but I was curious
as to your position

and what you think about
that element of his platform.

- I actually support it.

I think when you think
about this whole process,

in 2016 I couldn't
find a Democrat

that didn't believe that
the election was tampered.

They were shocked

that Hillary Clinton and
lost to Donald Trump,

which is ridiculous.

They should have just
seen the tea leaves

of how people were
feeling on the ground.

And in 2020, the Republicans
feel the same way.

And there is evidence of,

when you see the Secretary
of State break the law

and send out absentee
applications,

not just once, but multiple
times to individuals,

instead of by the law the
local clerk should be doing it,

or should be requested.

When you see ballot harvesting.

And what I think I mentioned
a little bit earlier

with Attorney General
Nessel talking about

or Attorney General Nessel's
Office bringing charges

against individuals that
were ballot harvesting from,

I believe it was nursing homes.

I'm not sure

if I've got all the
facts straight there,

but I believe it
was nursing homes.

And then you see
clerks like the one

in Southfield changing
absentee ballots.

There is fraud.

And one of the best ways we
could potentially put this

to bed is by doing
a full recount

or a full audit or whatever
people come together

and believe should be done

so that we can once

and for all put the
Democratic accusations

and the Republican
accusations to bed

and find out if there was
fraud or if there wasn't fraud.

What harm would come to that?

So if Matt DePerno wants to
leave that, God bless him.

I support him on that.

If Tom Leonard wants to do that,

I support him on that.

If Daniel Nessel
were to do that,

I would support her on that.

Whatever brings election
integrity forward

and brings a common belief
between republicans,

democrats, independents,
libertarians,

vegetarians,
whatever you wanna be

to have faith and transparency
in electorate system,

I'm 100% for.

- Sophia.

- Yeah.

So on the topic
of election fraud,

I know this was something
widely talked about at the end

of 2020, as well as
the beginning of 2021,

a lot of the policies

that have come forward
regarding election integrity,

some people from
the left have said,

that's discriminatory
towards certain of people.

So what do you think
is a good path forward

that doesn't discriminate
against people

who are eligible to vote?

- Sophia I apologize,

but I have no idea
what is discriminatory.

If you can give me a
perfect example of something

that is discriminatory,

I'd be more than
happy to address it.

- Are you talking about IDs

or having an ID when you vote?

- Yes.

I saw that on a show
similar to this actually

in 2020 about IDs.

- Sure.

And if you're talking
about a voter ID,

I don't think that's
discriminatory at all.

When you look at a majority
of poll that was done,

not a long time ago, I believe
what six, seven months ago,

amongst African Americans
in the state of Michigan,

I believe 70% of them
believed in voter ID.

If that were the case,

then going on a flight
would be discriminatory

because you have
to show your ID,

buying alcohol at
a convenience store

would be discriminatory.

This is one of the most
sacred honors we have,

and you should have an ID.

And by the way,

it would be discriminatory
if we had some type

of discriminatory markings
on an ID, but we don't.

And we shouldn't.

I believe that no
matter who you are,

black, white,
Christian, Jew, Muslim,

you should have
the right to vote

and it should be equal to all.

I was raised in a family
that believed in equality

across the board, gender
equality and racial equality.

I was raised to
Polish immigrants
that came here legally

that taught me very well that
everyone should be respected.

And when you look at that,
the law should be the law.

We should have voter IDs
so that you can prove

that you are the
individual who's voting.

By the way,

how is it discriminatory
when getting an ID,

you can get an ID for free.

And even cities
were issuing IDs.

The Secretary of State
was issuing state IDs.

You don't need a
driver's license to vote.

You need an ID, a
governmental ID.

- Representative, we have
to put a cap on this,

but very quickly, I
did not hear you say,

do you believe the election
was stolen from Donald Trump?

- I believe the
election was rigged.

Again, we will never know
unless we look at the election

from what happened with
the Secretary of State,

what happened with
ballot harvesting.

- But based on
what you know now.

Based on what you know now.

(soft music)

- None of us will never know.

And that's why it's
important for us to audit

or hand recount the ballot.

- Okay.

So the answer is you don't know.

- I think I've
made it very clear

that like Democrats believe

that the election
was stole in 2016,

Republicans felt the
election was stolen in 2020.

The only best way
we can put this

to bed is by doing
a full recount

or full audit of
all the elections

and having everyone review
it and abide by the law.

- Representative,
good to see you again.

Thank you much for
doing our broadcast

and thanks to our
student journalists.

We're gonna have you guys back

so stay tuned, okay?

Thank you Rocky.

Catch you later.

See you next week right
here on Off the Record.

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