♪
♪
WELCOME BACK OUR OTR GUEST THIS
WEEK IS A NEW CHAIRPERSON OF THE
HOUSE APPROPRIATIONS TOM ALBERT
FROM MICHIGAN AND LEAD STORIES
POTENTIAL VIOLENCE AT THE STATE
CAPITOL AND FORMER RICK SNYDER
CHARGED IN THE FLINT WATER
CRISIS ON THE ORT PANEL CHAD
LIVENGOOD ABIGAIL CENSKY RICK
ALBIN.
SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE
INSIDE OUT OFF THE RECORD.
PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS
MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE
FOLLOWING, BUSINESS LEADERS FOR
MICHIGAN HAS A STRATEGIC PLAN TO
MAKE MICHIGAN A TOP TEN STATE IN
THE NATION FOR JOBS, PERSONAL
INCOME AND A HEALTHY ECONOMY
LEARN MORE AT MICHIGAN ROAD TO
TOP TEN.COM.
AND NOW THIS EDITION OF OFF THE
RECORD WITH TIM SKUBICK.
♪
♪
THANK YOU VERY MUCH WELCOME BACK
TO OUR ZOOM EDITION OF OFF THE
RECORD ANOTHER HUGE BUSY NEWS
WEEK IN OUR TOWN WE HAVE A GREAT
PANEL AND GREAT GUEST AND GET TO
THEM AFTER WE GO TO GOVERNOR
GRETCHEN WHITMER ABOUT THE
CAPITOL AND PUTTING SHOTS IN
YOUR ARM.
GIVEN THE VIOLENCE OF THE ATTACK
ON THE U.S. CAPITOL LAST WEEK
GOVERNOR GRETCHEN WHITMER IS
DEEPLY CONCERNED WHAT MIGHT
HAPPEN HERE.
DO YOU HAVE ANY CREDIBLE THREATS
OF VIOLENCE AT OUR STATE CAPITOL
OR IS THIS JUST SPECULATION?
>> TIM, I CAN SAY THAT THERE IS
A LOT OF CHATTER THAT IS BEING
MONITORED BOTH BY OUR FEDERAL
PARTNERS AND BY OUR STATE
RESOURCES.
AND AS FOR SPECIFIC THREAT,
THERE IS NOT ANY TO MY
KNOWLEDGE.
BUT WE CAN SEE THAT THE
CONVERSATION NATIONALLY IS
FOCUSED ON THE 17TH.
AND WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO
STAY CLOSE TO OUR FEDERAL
PARTNERS AS WE ARE YOU KNOW
THINKING ABOUT HOW WE ENSURE THE
SAFETY OF THE CAPITOL COMPLEX.
>> THE LANSING MIRROR ANDY SHORE
WANTS THE GOVERNOR TO BRING IN
THE NATIONAL GUARD FOR A PLANNED
DEMONSTRATION AT THE STATE
CAPITOL ON SUNDAY.
THE GOVERNOR WON'T DISCLOSE WHAT
HER BATTLE PLAN IS.
>> THE MICHIGAN NATIONAL GUARD
IS IN COORDINATION WITH THE
MICHIGAN STATE POLICE AND
LANSING POLICE DEPARTMENT AND
INGHAM COUNTY SHERIFF'S
DEPARTMENT.
BEYOND THAT WE DO NOT AS JUST A
GENERAL MATTER SHARE MORE
INRICATE DETAILS LOOK LIKE AND
WE ARE PREPARED IF SOMETHING
SHOULD ARISE AND HOPEFUL IT DOES
NOT.
>> ON COVID FRONT THEY ARE
TAKING POLITICAL FIRE FOR
DELAYING FEBRUARY FIRST PARTIAL
OPENING OF IN ROOM DINING AND
SHIRKEY DISMISSES IT TO
GOVERNMENT KNOWS BEST AND QUOTE
IT'S TONE DEAF AND THE GOVERNOR
IS NOT READY TO OPEN THEM NOW
BECAUSE OF THIS.
>> AS WE ARE LOOKING AT THE
NUMBERS WE SEE AN UPTICK IN
POSITIVITY AND IN TESTS AND THAT
IS AS A CONCERN THAT WE ALL HAD
WAS AROUND WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN
WITH THE HOLIDAYS.
>> Reporter: ON THE VACCINE
FRONT 8031 DOSES IN MICHIGAN OR
SCHEDULED TO BE GIVEN BUT MORE
VACCINES NEED TO INOCCUR LATE
THE RESIDENTS AND 33,000 SHOTS
GIVEN RECENTLY BUT NOT THE
50,000 SHOTS A DAY THE GOVERNOR
WANTS.
SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE SAFETY
AT THE STATE CAPITOL ABIGAIL ARE
WE SAFE?
THEY ARE PUTTING UP A FENCE
AROUND OUR CAPITOL BUILDING THIS
DAY.
>> YEAH, EVERYONE I'VE TALKED TO
REMAINS CONFIDENT WHILE THEY ARE
NOT ABLE TO SHARE DETAILS OF
WHAT THE SPECIFIC POLICE
PRESENCE IS LIKE I TALKED TO
LIEUTENANT MICHAEL SHAW THIS
MORNING AND HE WAS SAYING THAT,
YOU KNOW, THEY STILL DON'T HAVE
CREDIBLE THREATS OF VIOLENCE.
AND THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT
WE SAW AT PREVIOUS, YOU KNOW,
INSTANCES JUST EARLIER THIS
YEAR, JUST BACK ON
DECEMBER 14TH.
THERE WERE CRITICAL ACTS OF
VIOLENCE AND THE STATE CAPITOL
WAS SHUT DOWN.
SO I THINK IT'S CHILLING BECAUSE
A LOT OF THIS PLANNING IS
HAPPENING OFF OF MAINSTREAM
SOCIAL MEDIA.
IT'S MIGRATED OFF OF FACEBOOK
AND TWITTER AND OTHER AREAS
BECAUSE THESE TECH COMPANIES
HAVE STARTED ENFORCING
GUIDELINES MORE STRICTLY AND
THESE PEOPLE WHO WERE PLANNING
THESE TYPES OF EVENTS HAVE
ESSENTIALLY BEEN DEPLATFORMED.
SO IT'S MIGRATED TO KIND OF
THIRD AND FOURTH TIER APPS LIKE
ME WEE AND GAB.
SO I THINK THAT YOU KNOW WHAT
I'VE BEEN HEARING FROM OFFICIALS
IS THAT THEY ARE BEING ALMOST
OVERLY CAUTIOUS.
WE KNOW IT'S A BIG THREAT AFTER
WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED AT THE U.S.
CAPITOL THIS WEEK.
BUT THEY ARE CONFIDENT THEY ARE
MAKING ADEQUATE PREPARATIONS AND
WHAT I'VE HEARD FROM PEOPLE IS
THEY DON'T WANT TO WAKE UP
MONDAY MORNING THINKING THEY
COULD HAVE DONE MORE.
>> I'VE TALKED TO A FEW PEOPLE
WHO ARE SIMILARLY I THINK
OPTIMISTIC THAT THEY WILL HAVE
THE SITUATION UNDER CONTROL.
BUT I THINK THE REALITY IS THAT
AFTER WHAT WE SAW HAPPEN IN
WASHINGTON DC THAT IT WOULD BE A
FALLACY TO UNDER PREPARE AND IF
YOU HAVE MORE RESOURCES THAN YOU
NEED IN PLACE, I THINK THAT'S
GOING TO BE A GOOD THING.
AND I DON'T KNOW.
I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT ABIGAIL.
I THINK A LOT OF THIS
CONVERSATION HAS MOVED TO OTHER
PLACES.
I'M RELATIVELY CERTAIN THAT THE
OFFICIALS ARE ABLE TO TRACK THAT
AND KEEP AN EYE ON THAT AS WELL
EVEN THOUGH IT MAY BE A LITTLE
MORE DIFFICULT WITH YOU KNOW A
MORE SPREAD OUT CONVERSATION.
BUT I THINK YOU HAVE TO BE
PREPARED FOR SOMETHING TO HAPPEN
ON SUNDAY JUST GIVEN THE AMOUNT
OF CONVERSATION THERE HAS BEEN
OUT THERE ABOUT IT.
AND THE FACT THAT I THINK
TENSIONS AND EMOTIONS ARE STILL
RUNNING HIGH.
>> TIM, WE VIEW THE STATE HOUSE
AS THE MOST SACRED PLACE AT
LEAST THE LANSING INSIDERS WHO
LOOK AT THIS AND WORK IN THIS
INSTITUTION EVERYDAY.
SO I AGREE OVER PROTECTING IT
DOESN'T SEEM LIKE A BIG DEAL,
I'M NOT SURE WHO IS REALLY GOING
TO CRITICIZE JUST BEING OVER
PREPARED FOR WHAT MAY OR MAY NOT
HAPPEN.
>> WELL, THE GOVERNOR DIDN'T
WANT TO ANSWER THE QUESTION
WOULD SHE CALL IN THE NATIONAL
GUARD BUT HERE IS A GUESS FROM
30,000 FEET I THINK THEY ARE ON
STAND BY AND THE ARMORY IS
NEARBY AND IF THEY NEED TO BE
TRUCKED IN THEY CAN DO IT IN A
SECOND IF THAT IS NEEDED.
AND IN THE CONTEXT THE STATE
CAPITOL COMMISSION DID SOMETHING
THEY THOUGHT WOULD HELP PROTECT
PEOPLE IN THE CAPITOL AND THAT
IS THEY BAN OPEN CARRY AND,
RICK, IT DID NOT OPEN TO GREAT
REVIEWS FROM EITHER SIDE.
>> NO, IT DIDN'T.
FOR SOME IT WAS AN INFRINGEMENT
ON THE OPEN CARRY LAW IN THE
STATE OF MICHIGAN AND FOR OTHERS
IT WAS JUST A HALF STEP THAT
THEY WANTED TO MAKE SURE THE
CONCEALED CARRY WAS ALSO
RESTRICTED IN THE CAPITOL.
AND IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION
FROM THE STAND POINT OF SAFETY.
I KNOW THAT AFTER I CAME BACK TO
THE STATE, AFTER 9/11 I WAS A
LITTLE SURPRISED AND REMAIN SO
THAT THE CAPITOL WAS AS OPEN AS
IT WAS.
THERE ARE YOU KNOW NO METAL
DETECTORS GOING IN.
IT'S PRETTY FREE FLOW IN AND
OUT, NOT AS MUCH OBVIOUSLY
DURING COVID BUT IN A NORMAL
TIME SO THE QUESTION OF HOW OPEN
DO YOU KEEP THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE
VERSUS HOW DO YOU TRY TO PROTECT
THE PEOPLE INSIDE THAT HOUSE.
AND THOSE THAT WOULD VISIT AS
WELL.
IS AN INTERESTING ONE.
AND SO YOU'RE RIGHT, TIM, THE
DECISION BY THE CAPITOL
COMMISSION TO DO AWAY WITH OPEN
CARRY INSIDE THE BUILDING FOR
BOTH SEE I THINK WAS A MEASURE
EITHER A HALF STEP TOO FAR OR A
HALF STEP TOO SHORT AND I THINK
IT'S CONVERSATION WE WILL
CONTINUE TO HEAR.
>> ALL RIGHT I WANT TO MOVE, GO
AHEAD, CHAD.
>> WE HAVE TO GO ACROSS ALLEGAN
STREET TO FIND A STUNNINGLY
DIFFERENT EXAMPLE OF A
GOVERNMENT BUILDING FORTIFIED
THE FEDERAL COURTHOUSE AND POST
OFFICE.
REMEMBER A COUPLE YEARS AGO WHEN
THEY INSTALLED THE STEEL BOWARDS
ALONG THERE, THEY WERE AFRAID
SOMEONE WOULD JUMP THE CURB AND
DRIVE A TRUCK RIGHT INTO THE
FEDERAL COURTHOUSE IN LANSING.
SO AND YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH
METAL DETECTORS TO GET IN THE
COURTHOUSE SIDE OF THAT BUILDING
AS WELL.
SO WE HAVE JUST A REALLY BIZARRE
DIFFERENT STANDARD FOR THE STATE
HOUSE AND EVERY OTHER GOVERNMENT
BUILDING IN THIS STATE FROM
DETROIT CITY HALL TO COUNTY
COURTHOUSES.
THERE ARE SCANNER OR THERE ARE
METAL DETECTORS TO MAKE SURE
THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT HAULING GUNS
INTO THERE.
WE HAVE NOT GOT TO THAT POINT IN
MICHIGAN BECAUSE WE ARE STILL
ALLOWING CONCEALED WEAPONS INTO
THE CAPITOL.
>> ABIGAIL QUICKLY ON THE
VACCINE FRONT HOW ARE WE DOING?
>> I MEAN I THINK YOU HAVE TO
LOOK JUST AS FAR AS CHAD'S
REPORTING TO SEE THAT WE ARE NOT
DOING WELL OR AS WELL AS THE
WITNESS MERADMINISTRATION WOULD
HAVE ANTICIPATED.
THEY ARE ALLEGING THAT IS
BECAUSE THEY ARE RECEIVING FAR
FEWER VACCINES FROM THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT.
AND THAT CERTAINLY HAS BEEN YOU
KNOW TRUE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
WE ARE NOT JUST HEARING THAT
FROM MICHIGAN.
BUT I THINK IT ALSO DEPENDS ON
WHAT COUNTY YOU'RE IN.
IN INGHAM COUNTY THEY ARE MAKING
APPOINTMENTS BUT THERE IS YOU
KNOW A LONG WAIT UP UNTIL
FEBRUARY FOR JUST THE FIRST, YOU
KNOW, SEVERAL TIERS OF GROUPS
WHO ARE ELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE THE
VACCINE RIGHT NOW.
AND SO THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST
ABOVE 16 AND OLDER AND THE
GENERAL POPULATION AND THE VERY
LAST GROUP THEY MIGHT BE
RECEIVING THE VACCINE MUCH LATER
IN 2021 THAN ANTICIPATED.
>> TIM, THE STATE PUBLISHED A
TIMELINE THIS WEEK THAT REALLY
KIND OF STICKS OUT AT THIS POINT
THAT FOLKS 60 AND OLDER NOT AN
ESSENTIAL WORKER AND WORKING
FROM HOME SHOULD NOT EXPECT TO
SEE THE VACCINE UNTIL AUGUST.
SO THIS IDEA WE WILL ALL BE
NORMAL BY LATE SUMMER SEEMS TO
BE FADING AWAY PRETTY QUICKLY
HERE THE SECOND OR THIRD WEEK IN
JANUARY.
>> ALL RIGHT RICK WE HEARD FROM
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE
AND FORMER RICK SNYDER CHARGED
WITH TWO COUNTS OF WILLINGFUL
NEGLECT OF DUTY PEOPLE ARE
ASKING ARE YOU SURPRISED BY
THAT?
>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD
CALL IT -- CONSIDER MYSELF
SURPRISED.
I DO THINK THAT IT OPENS UP A
VERY INTERESTING CONVERSATION
ABOUT WHAT YOU AS AN ELECTED
OFFICIAL CAN AND CANNOT DO,
SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT DO AND HOW
YOU WILL OR WILL NOT BE JUDGED.
AND I THINK THAT THERE IS A CASE
TO BE MADE THAT THIS COULD HAVE
AN IMPACT ON THAT.
SO AM I SURPRISED THAT THERE
WERE CHARGES?
PROBABLY NOT.
A COUPLE YEARS AGO WHEN CHARGES
WERE DROPPED AND THIS NEW
INVESTIGATION BEGAN, I THINK THE
EXPECTATION WAS THAT THERE WOULD
BE CHARGES AND SO WE HAVE SEEN A
LOT OF THEM NOW.
NINE DIFFERENT PEOPLE CHARGED ON
A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT TYPE OF
CHARGES BUT THE FACT THAT YOU
HAVE A FORMER GOVERNOR OF THE
STATE OF MICHIGAN WHO HAS BEEN
CHARGED WITH ESSENTIALLY
NEGLECTING PAYING ENOUGH
ATTENTION TO THE PEOPLE WORKING
FOR HIM.
IF I YOU KNOW COULD BOIL IT DOWN
TO MY OWN VERY SIMPLISTIC
LANGUAGE.
AND I JUST I THINK IT'S GOING TO
BE A VERY INTERESTING CASE TO
SEE HOW THAT TURNS OUT AND WHAT
IMPACT THAT COULD HAVE GOING
FORWARD ON OTHER GOVERNORS AND
OTHER ELECTED OFFICIALS.
>> CHAD?
>> TO THAT POINT I MEAN THIS
CURRENT OCCUPANT OF THE
GOVERNOR'S OFFICE HAS SOME REAL
ISSUES WITH SOME OF THE POLICIES
RELATED TO NURSING EMHOWS AT THE
BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC.
NURSING HOMES HAVE BEEN GROUND
ZERO FOR DEATH IN THIS STATE.
37% OF THE DEATHS, 7.5% OF THE
CASES IN MICHIGAN TOTALLY OUT OF
WHACK.
AND SO THE MEDIA YOU KNOW BEING
IF I'M THE GOVERNOR OF MICHIGAN
RIGHT NOW I'M HAVING A LITTLE
BIT OF A PAUSE ABOUT AN ATTORNEY
GENERAL GOING AFTER A GOVERNOR
OVER DECISION MAKING THAT WENT
MAYBE WAY FURTHER DOWN THE LINE.
AND THEN THERE IS A GENERAL
QUESTION OF YOU KNOW, THE CASE
IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE
INDICTMENTS THAT CAME DOWN
YESTERDAY THERE IS NOT MUCH
DIFFERENCE THAN WHAT TODD FLOOD
UNDER BILL SCHUTTE AND THE
FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF GERD IS
BASED ON ALLEGED FALSE TESTIMONY
HE MADE IN FEBRUARY OF 2017.
SAME THING FOR RICH BAIRD THE
GOVERNOR'S FORMER RIGHT HAND MAN
AND LOOKS LIKE THE SAME CASES
WILL BE LAID OUT AS FAR AS
MANSLAUGHTER AGAINST NICK LIONS
THE FORMER HEALTH DIRECTOR AND
EDEN WELLS THE FORMER CHIEF
MEDICAL EXECUTIVE.
SODA THAT NESSEL'S TEAM IS
CARVING A VERY SIMILAR PATH THAT
BILL SCHUTTE'S TEAM WAS WELL
DOWN BEFORE SHE DROPPED THOSE
CHARGES IN JUNE OF 19 AND
STARTED OVER.
>> IN ALL THERE WERE 42 COUNTS
AGAINST THE NINE PEOPLE AND RICK
IF YOU LOOKED AT THE ALLEGATIONS
THAT THE AG'S OFFICE BROUGHT
FORTH IT APPEARED FROM FIRST
BLUSH IT LOOKS LIKE RICH BAIRD
HAS THE MOST PROBLEMS EXTORTION,
PERJURY AND TWO OTHER CHARGES IN
THERE.
WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THAT?
>> WELL, YOU ASKED EARLIER WAS I
SURPRISED, I WAS SURPRISED BY
THOSE.
THEY ARE DEALING WITH
INFORMATION I DON'T HAVE.
SO I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT
THAT'S BASED ON.
BUT YES I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.
I THINK HE IS FACING A SERIOUS
LEGAL HURDLE.
AND I THINK IT WILL, AGAIN, IT'S
GOING TO BE REALLY INTERESTING
FOR THOSE OF US WHO WILL WATCH
THIS CLOSELY TO SEE EXACTLY HOW
DID THOSE CHARGES COME ABOUT.
WHAT WAS THE THREAT APPARENTLY
THAT HE MADE AGAINST
INVESTIGATORS AT SOME POINT.
YOU KNOW, HOW DID THAT PLAY OUT.
WHAT WAS IT.
AND AGAIN BEING VERY CAUTIOUS TO
POINT OUT I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY I
STILL THINK THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP
IN MIND THAT ALL OF THESE ARE
ALLEGATIONS.
NOTHING HAS BEEN PROVEN.
NOTHING WILL BE PROVEN UNTIL
THIS GOES THROUGH THE COURT
SYSTEM SO IT'S GOING TO BE
INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT PROOF
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE
WILL BRING FORWARD.
BUT I WOULD THINK ALL OF THESE
EVEN THOUGH SOME OF THEM HAVE
LESSER CONSEQUENCES I THINK THEY
ARE ALL QUITE SERIOUS AND I
THINK IT IS GOING TO BE A VERY
INTERESTING SET OF TRIALS TO
WATCH.
>> TIM.
>> WE HAVE TO CALL IN OUR GUEST
REPRESENTATIVE TOM ALBERT ON
WEST MICHIGAN AND THE HOUSE
APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE AND WE
WILL GET STARTED WITH EMILY
GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON THE SHOW.
>> THANKS TIM.
>> HI REPRESENTATIVE.
YOU KNOW, THE INCOMING
BIDEN/HARRIS ADMINISTRATION JUST
ANNOUNCED THEY ARE GOING TO TRY
TO PASS ANOTHER 1.9 TRILLION
DOLLAR STIMULUS PACKAGE.
AND THE MICHIGAN STATE BUDGET
CERTAINLY COULDN'T HAVE BEEN
HEALTHY LAST YEAR WITHOUT
FEDERAL AID.
HOW MUCH AID DO YOU ANTICIPATE
WILL BE NECESSARY IN THE BUDGET
GOING FORWARD AND WHAT KIND OF
DEFICITS DO YOU ANTICIPATE THE
STATE OF MICHIGAN WILL FACE
BECAUSE OF COVID-19?
>> YEAH, THANKS ABIGAIL.
APPRECIATE THE QUESTION.
IT'S JUST THERE IS TOO MANY
VARIABLES FOR ME TO REALLY HAVE
AN ESTIMATE ON THAT.
IF YOU LOOK SO THE CONSENSUS
REVENUE CONFERENCE WILL COME OUT
TODAY.
AND IT'S GOING TO -- THE
HEADLINE IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE
IT'S AN ROSY PICTURE AND LOOK
LIKE WE HAVE LOTS OF MONEY.
BUT THE REASON IT'S NOT ACTUALLY
THAT, WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IS
BECAUSE WE HAD ESTIMATED A 15%
REDUCTION IN REVENUE FOR TAX
REVENUE AND WHAT WE ARE SEEING
MORE LIKE A 7% REDUCTION SO IT'S
ACTUALLY LAST YEAR WAS NOT AS
BAD AS WHAT WE THOUGHT IT WAS.
SO I DON'T KNOW.
LIKE ARE WE GOING TO START
REOPENING?
ARE WE GOING TO START HAVING
MORE ECONOMIC ACTIVITY FROM THE
BOTTOM UP?
THAT JUST CHANGES SO MUCH OF
WHAT WE CAN EXPECT FOR REVENUES.
I CAN TELL YOU WHAT WE HAVE SEEN
LAST YEAR WAS IT WAS TOP DOWN.
THE ONLY REASON WE HAVE AS ROSY
OF A PICTURE AS WE HAVE NOW IS
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT LITERALLY
PUMPED BILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO
THE STATE OF MICHIGAN.
THAT WAS WAS PPP LOAN AND 600,
UIA AND DIRECT PAYMENTS TO
TAXPAYERS ALL OF THAT MONEY CAME
IN THROUGH SALES TAX REVENUE AND
YOU KNOW CORPORATE INCOME TAX
WAS HIGH AS WELL.
SO I CAN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION
AS TO WHAT TO EXPECT.
BUT WE ARE DEFINITELY NOT OUT OF
THE WOODS.
>> REPRESENTATIVE TIM STARTED BY
CONGRATULATING YOU ON YOUR NEW
POSITION.
I GUESS I WILL DO THAT TOO WITH
A BIT OF CAUTION BECAUSE THERE
COULD BE SOME INCOMING FIRE IN
THIS NEW POSITION GIVEN THE
PRESSURES THAT MAY BE ON THE
STATE BUDGET AND ALSO THE
DIFFERENCES THAT THE
REPUBLICAN-LED HOUSE AND SENATE
MAY HAVE WITH THIS GOVERNOR.
THERE HAS BEEN CONVERSATION
ABOUT WITHHOLDING MONEY OR
WITHHOLDING FUNDS FROM SOME
EXPENDITURES.
UNTIL THE GOVERNOR MORE FULLY
OPENS UP THE STATE, CAN YOU
ADDRESS THAT A LITTLE BIT?
AND WHAT THE -- HOW SERIOUS THAT
IS AND ALSO HOW FINANCIALLY
RESPONSIBLE OR IRRESPONSIBLE
THAT WOULD BE?
>> WELL THANKS FOR THAT
QUESTION, RICK.
I THINK IT'S FUNNY THE WAY MY
PRESS RELEASE HAS BEEN PRESENTED
IN THE MEDIA.
I ACTUALLY DID NOT USE THE WORD
WITHHOLDING ONCE THIS THAT
ENTIRE RELEASE.
WHAT I SAID WAS UNLESS WE START
REOPENING I'M NOT GOING TO START
HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH THE
GOVERNOR SO WE NEED TO HAVE
CHECKS AND BALANCES IN THE
STATE.
WE HAVE NOT OVER THIS LAST YEAR.
THE GOVERNOR HAS CONTINUED TO
TRY TO MAKE UNILATERAL
DECISIONS.
AND SOME OF THESE HAVE BEEN
VERY, VERY DISERASTOUS.
SO WHAT I'M GOING TO DO IT'S MY
RESPONSIBILITY THE LEGISLATURE
HAS THE POWER OF THE PURSE AND
WE WILL MAKE SURE THE MONEY GETS
OUT THERE IN WAYS THAT BOTH CAN
HELP PEOPLE THAT ARE REALLY IN A
LOT OF NEED RIGHT NOW AND ALSO
AT THE SAME TIME MAKING SURE WE
HAVE CHECKS AND BALANCES.
>> BUT REPRESENTATIVE YOU'RE NOT
GOING TO TALK TO HER.
YOU AND THE SENATE WILL DO THIS
ON YOUR OWN AND JUST LEAVE HER
OUT?
>> IT'S UP TO THE GOVERNOR.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING
THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAS NEVER
DONE EVEN IN MY TENURE.
IN 2017 WHEN I WAS WORKING ON
PENSION REFORM FOR THE STATE
TEACHERS PENSION SYSTEM THE
GOVERNOR WAS NOT ON THE SAME
PAGE AS THE LEGISLATURE SO HE
WASN'T INVOLVED IN BUDGET
NEGOTIATIONS UNTIL HE DECIDED TO
WORK WITH US.
>> LET'S BE CLEAR HERE IF SHE
SAYS I'M NOT GOING TO REOPEN ON
YOUR SCHEDULE BUT ON MY SCHEDULE
YOU WON'T TALK TO HER ON COVID
SPENDING, FAIR STATEMENT?
>> LET'S HOPE IT DOESN'T COME TO
THAT, TIM.
>> WELL, IS THAT A FAIR
STATEMENT?
>> TIM, I'M GOING TO STICK TO MY
GUNS ON THIS AND STICK TO MY
STATEMENT.
SHE STARTS REOPENING WE WILL
START TALKING.
>> AND IF SHE DOESN'T YOU WON'T?
>> HOPEFULLY SHE GETS THE
MESSAGE.
>> CHAD.
>> REPRESENTATIVE, THERE IS
NOTHING YOU CAN REALLY DO IN
BOILERPLATE TO YOU KNOW MANDATE
REOPENINGS.
SHE CAN JUST SAY IT'S
UNENFORCEABLE BOILERPLATE OR
LINE ITEM VETO YOUR SPENDING
DECISIONS OR VETO THE WHOLE
THING.
SHE IS NOT AFRAID TO DO THAT,
SHE HAS PROVEN THAT A COUPLE
TIMES NOW RIGHT?
>> SHE HAS VETOED FUNDING FOR
SCHOOL SAFETY GRANTS AND AUTISM
AND WILLING TO REALLY VETO WHAT
EVER NEEDED TO USE THE PEOPLE OF
MICHIGAN AS PAWNS TO MEET HER
POLITICAL OBJECTIVE.
SO YOU KNOW I WOULD AGREE WITH
THAT.
>> WHAT IS THE LEGISLATURE'S
PACKAGE OF POLICIES GOING
FORWARD WITH DEALING WITH THE
PANDEMIC?
BECAUSE AS WE NOTED EARLIER,
FOLKS AGE 16 AND UP WHO ARE NOT
IN ONE OF THESE OR BASICALLY
16-65 THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO
GET THE VACCINE UNTIL MID TO
LATE SUMMER AT THIS RATE OF ROLL
OUT BASED ON HOW THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT HAS DONE SO FAR.
SO WHAT IS THE LEGISLATURE'S
PLAN FOR MITIGATING, YOU KNOW,
MORE DEATH IN THIS STATE?
>> WELL, ONE THING I THINK
BEFORE I GET TO THAT ONE THING I
THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO
POINT OUT ONE THING I WOULD DO
DIFFERENTLY IF I WAS IN CHARGE
WE WOULD HAVE A COUNTY BY COUNTY
APPROACH BASED ON DATA.
RIGHT NOW HERE IS THE PROBLEM WE
WERE 48 HOURS BEFORE THE
DEADLINE WAS SUPPOSED TO EXPIRE
TODAY ON THE 15TH AND RESTAURANT
OWNERS HAD NO IDEA WHAT TO
EXPECT.
AND EVEN CALIFORNIA HAS A
METRIC-BASED SYSTEM SO BUSINESS
OWNERS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING
TO WORK TO PUT A ROOF OVER THEIR
HEAD AND FEED THEIR KIDS CAN AT
LEAST HAVE SOME HOPE AND SOME
IDEA AND SOME CLARITY AS TO WHEN
THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO GO
BACK TO WORK.
IT'S NOT THAT HARD.
I MEAN, IT CAN BE BASED -- OTHER
STATES BASED ON POSITIVITY RATES
OF TESTING, BASED ON CASE
GROWTH, BASED ON HOSPITALIZATION
RATE IN THAT REGION SO THAT IS A
REALLY IMPORTANT POINT THAT I
WANT TO GET OUT THERE.
I'M NOT SAYING WE NEED TO JUST
CART BLANCHE OPEN THE STATE AND
NOT HAVE ANY THOUGHT OR ANY
ANALYSIS INTO HOW TO DO IT
SAFELY.
I'M JUST SAYING IT NEEDS TO BE
MORE TRANSPARENT AND PEOPLE NEED
TO BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT
THEY'RE EXPECTATIONS ARE.
NOW AS TO YOUR POINT ABOUT THE
DIFFERENT AGES AND WHEN THEY
WILL GET VACCINES IT'S
OVERWHELMINGLY CLEAR AND JUST
LOOKED AT C.D.C.'S DATA FROM THE
PAST WEEK IF YOU ARE UNDER 50
YEARS OLD IF YOU LOOK AT THE
NUMBER OF KNOWN POSITIVE CASES
AND MORTALITIES THERE IS .3% OF
DEATH.
UP TO 85 AND OLDER THE MORTALITY
IS 21% SO THERE IS A PRETTY
STARK DIFFERENCE AND THAT GOES
IN THE VACCINE ROLL OUT, VACCINE
ROLL OUT HAS BEEN AN UTTER
DISASTER.
I DID LOGISTICS IN THE MARINE
CORPS SO I ACTUALLY HAVE A LOT
OF EXPERIENCE IN THIS AREA.
AND I CAN TELL YOU THE
FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM WE HAVE
RIGHT NOW IS IT'S A TOP DOWN
APPROACH AND PEOPLE THAT ARE
DOWN AT THE BOTTOM ARE NOT
HAVING INPUT IN DECISIONS.
I TALKED TO HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS
THE BIGGEST PROBLEM THEY HAVE
RIGHT NOW THEY DON'T KNOW WHEN
THE SHIPMENTS WILL COME IN AND
HOW MANY THEY WILL GET.
DESPITE THE FACT THAT THERE
MIGHT BE AN ISSUE OF THE STATES
NOT GETTING AS MUCH OF THE
VACCINES AS THEY WANT, THEY CAN
STILL PLAN PROPERLY WITH WHAT
THEY HAVE.
SO AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT
BECAUSE THE FIRST SHOT IS THE
TWO-SHOT PROCESS.
THE FIRST SHOT ONLY IS 52%
EFFECTIVE.
BUT THREE WEEKS LATER AND IT'S
VERY IMPORTANT YOU GET IT IN
THAT THREE WEEK WINDOW BECAUSE
IT'S NOT EFFECTIVE IF YOU GET IT
AT A DIFFERENT TIMEFRAME IT GOES
UP TO 95 PERCENT EFFECTIVE SO
HOSPITALS ARE CONCERNED WHEN IT
COMES TO THE SECOND SHOT THEY
WON'T HAVE THE SUPPLY THEY NEED.
>> REPRESENTATIVE DO YOU SUPPORT
THE BAN OF OPEN CARRY IN THE
MICHIGAN LEGISLATURE, SIR?
>> I DO NOT SUPPORT THE CAPITOL
COMMISSION DOING IT.
I DON'T FEEL THEY HAVE THE
AUTHORITY TO DO SO.
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT
BUT I THINK IT NEEDS TO COME
THROUGH A LEGISLATIVE CHANNEL
AND WE ARE THE ONES WHO SHOULD
BE MAKING DETERMINATIONS LIKE
THAT.
>> IS THE LEGISLATURE GOING TO
VOTE TO UNDO THAT?
>> THAT'S A QUESTION FOR SPEAKER
WENTWORTH.
>> WELL.
>> ON THE BOARD.
>> WELL, YOU WOULD SUPPORT A
BILL TO UNDO WHAT THE CAPITOL
COMMISSION DID, IS THAT FAIR?
>> I DON'T WANT TO PUT IT THAT
WAY, TIM, IT SOUNDS LIKE I'M
AGAINST IT.
I'M IN THE CAPITOL AND I HAVE A
FAMILY TO SUPPORT AND WANT TO
MAKE SURE IT'S SAFE.
I HAVE YOU KNOW THE MOST
CONFIDENCE I COULD HAVE IN OUR
LAW ENFORCEMENT THAT WE HAVE IN
THE CAPITOL AND THE STATE POLICE
THAT ARE THERE.
I THINK THEY DO A GREAT JOB.
THAT BEING SAID I'M A STRONG
SUPPORTER OF THE SECOND
AMENDMENT BUT THE OPEN CARRY ON
THE CAPITOL I DON'T THINK IS
NECESSARY AND IF THERE IS A BILL
TO YOU KNOW TO REMOVE OPEN CAR
ARE I IN THE CAPITOL I WOULD
SUPPORT IT.
>> TWO MINUTES LEFT ABIGAIL THEN
WE WILL DO OVER TIME BUT ABIGAIL
BACK TO YOU.
>> YOU KNOW ONE OF THE REASONS
THE CAPITOL COMMISSION SAID THIS
WEEK THAT THEY DIDN'T GO AS FAR
AS BANNING CONCEALED CARRY IN
THE CAPITOL WAS BECAUSE OF
BUDGET CONCERNS.
DO YOU THINK THERE WOULD BE AN
APPETITE THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE
TO PASS A BILL BANNING CONCEALED
CARRY OR APPROPRIATE SOME FUNDS
AT LEAST FOR ADDITIONAL OFFICERS
TO CHECK PERMITS OR HAVE METAL
DETECTORS OR BAG CHECKS, THAT
KIND OF THING?
>> I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING
THAT COULD BE EXPLORED THROUGH
THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS.
YOU KNOW, CHAD, YOUR POINT YOU
HAD MADE EARLIER ABOUT COMPARING
THE STATE CAPITOL TO THE FEDERAL
BUILDINGS AND THE COURTHOUSE
NEXT DOOR, YOU KNOW, IT'S A
FAIRWAY TO THINK OF IT.
BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO KEEP IN
MIND I IMAGINE TENS OF THOUSANDS
OF ESPECIALLY FOURTH GRADERS
COME THROUGH THE CAPITOL EVERY
YEAR, SO YOU KNOW LOGISTICALLY
ARE WE GOING TO YOU KNOW MAKE IT
SO HARD FOR GROUPS LIKE THAT TO
COME THROUGH THAT WE ARE
ACTUALLY CLOSING OFF THE PEOPLE
OF MICHIGAN BEING ABLE TO COME
AND YOU KNOW, LEARN THE HISTORY
OF THEIR STATE.
SO I DO THINK THAT IS AN
IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION TO KEEP
IN MIND AS WELL.
THERE WOULD BE A BIG COST TO DO
TO ADD METAL DETECTORS AND
ADDITIONAL SECURITY AND THAT'S
THE TYPE OF THING WHERE I WOULD
NEED TO SEE WHAT THE LAW
ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES ARE
RECOMMENDING BEFORE I COULD
WEIGH IN ON SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
>> VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVE WE
ARE GOING TO DO AN OVER TIME
SEGMENT AND WRAP UP IN THE
GOVERNOR ACCUSED OR ALLEGED THAT
YOU WERE HOLDING THE COVID MONEY
HOSTAGE DO YOU PLEAD GUILTY YEAH
OR NAY?
>> DID I USE THE WORD HOSTAGE IN
THAT PRESS RELEASE?
>> SHE DID.
SHE USED THE WORD HOSTAGE.
>> ALL I SAID IS I WOULD LIKE TO
WORK TOGETHER.
>> VERY GOOD.
I WANT TO GO HOME.
OKAY SIT TIGHT WE WILL BE BACK
WITH AFTER CLOSED CREDITS WITH
MORE WITH THE CHAIR
APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE
REPRESENTATIVE TOM ALBERT.
PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS
MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE
FOLLOWING, BUSINESS LEADERS FOR
MICHIGAN HAS A STRATEGIC PLAN TO
MAKE MICHIGAN A TOP TEN STATE IN
THE NATION FOR JOBS, PERSONAL
INCOME AND A HEALTHY ECONOMY
LEARN MORE AT MICHIGAN ROAD TO
TOP TEN.COM.
FOR MORE OFF THE RECORD VISIT
WKAR.ORG MICHIGAN PUBLIC
TELEVISION STATIONS HAVE
CONTRIBUTED TO THE PRODUCTION
COSTS OF OFF THE RECORD WITH TIM
SKUBICK.