WEBVTT

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>> WELCOME BACK.
"OFF THE RECORD" STARTS RIGHT

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NOW.
ON THE PANEL WE HAVE KYLE MELINN

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AND BILL BALLENGER ALONG WITH
RICK PLUTA.

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A DNA BILL IS MOVING.
STEW PACK URGED TO RUN FOR

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GOVERNOR AND LATER ON EMILY FROM
EQUALITY MICHIGAN WILL BE HERE

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TO DISCUSS THAT AND MORE COMING
UP ON "OFF THE RECORD."

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GETTING THE INSIDE OUT.
IT'S "OFF THE RECORD" WITH

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SENIOR CAPITAL CORRESPONDENT TIM
SKUBICK AND HIS CAPITAL PRESS

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CORE COLLEAGUES.

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AND NOW THIS EDITION OF "OFF THE
RECORD" WITH TIM SKUBICK.

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>> THANKS, AND WELCOME TO THIS
WEEK'S EDITION OF "OFF THE

01:38.365 --> 01:41.233
RECORD."
WE HAD LEGISLATION THAT WILL

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ALLOW THE COPS AFTER THEY'VE
ARRESTED YOU TO PUT A SWAB IN

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THE MOUTH FOR SOME DNA.
>> THE U.S. SUPREME COURT HAS

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DECIDED THAT THEY HAVE YOUR
FINGERPRINTS BUT THEY ARE GOING

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TO COLLECT YOUR DNA SAMPLE IF
YOU'VE COMMITTED A FELONY AND

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WE'VE GOT LEGISLATION IN THE
SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE THAT

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WILL ALLOW THE STATE TO
PARTICIPATE.

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OBVIOUSLY THIS HAS HAD THE CIVIL
RIGHTS GROUP ALL EXCITED BUT

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THEY'VE PUT IN A PROVISION THAT
IF YOU'RE INNOCENT THEY WILL

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THROW AWAY YOUR DNA SAMPLE.
>> GIVEN WHAT THE FEDERAL

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GOVERNMENTS ALLEGEDLY DOING ON
THE NATIONAL LEVEL.

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WOULD YOU TRUST THE GOVERNMENT?
>> THAT IS THE ISSUE.

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>> THAT WAS A QUESTION,
MR. BALLENGER.

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>> THIS IS A PIECE WITH THE
STUDY BEING -- THE TRAFFIC

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LIGHTS.
PUBLIC SAFETY.

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IT'S AN INTRUSION.
THE SAME IDEA OF GOVERNMENT

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INTRUDERRING ON YOUR PRIVATE
SPACE WHETHER TO TAKE A SWAB

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FROM YOUR CHEEK OR STUDY IF
YOU'VE RUN A RED LIGHT AT SOME

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REMOTE INTERSECTION AND THERE IS
NO COP AROUND AND EVERYTHING

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E CAN IN -- WEEK IN


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WASHINGTON IT'S UNBELIEVABLE.
A HUGE CONFLICT BETWEEN WHAT THE

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GOVERNMENT IS ABLE TO DO IN THE
NAME USUALLY OF PROTECTING

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SECURITY.
>> IN THIS CASE FIGHTING CRIME

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OR SOLVING COLD CASES.
>> AND INTRUDERRING ON YOUR

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PRIVATE BEHAVIOR.
>> WE'LL GET TO THE CAMERAS IN

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JUST A SECOND.
>> WE'RE DEBATING WHAT IT MEANS

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TO BE LIVING IN THE MODERN
SURVEILLANCE SOCIETY AND HOW

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MUCH GOVERNMENT CAN DO AND WHAT
WE'LL ALLOW.

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THE QUESTION ON THE DNA SWABS IS
IS DNA LIKE FINGERPRINTS?

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>> NO.
IT IS NOT.

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>> WHY NOT?
>> BECAUSE THERE IS MORE

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INFORMATION.
>> THE SAME PRINCIPLES.

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>> YES.
FINGERPRINTS ARE OKAY.

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DNA IS THE NEXT STEP UP AND MORE
EFFECTIVE.

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>> EVEN THE ACLU IS NEUTRAL ON
THIS BILL.

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THEY WOULD LIKE TO OPPOSE IT.
>> WHY?

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>> THEY ARE NEUTRAL NOW --
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]

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>> DOES THIS BECOME LIKE THE
SEAT BELT LAW IT'S STARTS OUT AS

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A SECONDARY OFFENSE AND AS WE
GOT MORE COMFORTABLE IT BECAME A

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PRIMARY --
>> IT CREEPS EVER UPWARD.

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MORE AND MORE INTRUSION.
>> DNA HAS BECOME A CENTRAL PART

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OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE.
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]

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>> ESPECIALLY IN RAPE CASES IT'S
SO VITAL.

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IT'S SO HARD TO GET COMFORTABLE
WITH THE IDEA THAT SOMETHING

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THAT BELONGS -- THAT IS YOUR
VERY MAKE UP AND THAT WOULD BE

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ON FILE.
>> IF THE ACLU IS NEUTRAL IT'S

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GOING TO HAPPEN AND WE MIGHT AS
WELL ACCEPT IT.

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[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]
>> I'M NOT SAN QUINN -- ABOUT

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THE FORMER EITHER ABOUT THE DNA.
JUST REALISTICALLY IT'S GOING TO

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HAPPEN.
POLITICALLY IN THE LEGISLATURE

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YOU KNOW RICK JONES IS CHAIRMAN
OF THE COMMITTEE.

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IF THE HOUSE PASSES THIS THING
ON THE TRAFFIC LIGHT

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SURVEILLANCE IT'S GOING NOWHERE
IN MY COMMITTEE.

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>> IT'S ROBO COP.
>> AND A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE

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PROBLEMS WITH THAT.
HAS GOT MORE PROBLEMS.

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>> WHAT IF WE SAVE LIVES BY
CATCHING SPEEDERS GOING THROUGH

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RED LIGHTS.
>> PEOPLE THAT PULL UP AND USE

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RED LIGHTS AS STOP SIGNS.
YOU DON'T DO THAT, TIM.

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>> I DON'T EVEN DRIVE.
[ LAUGHTER ]

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AND WELL, AND ALSO WHAT IS THE
APPEALS PROCESS.

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RIGHT NOW 23 A COP STOPS YOU FOR
DOING THE SAME YOU GET TO GO TO

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COURT AND SAY HERE IS WHY THAT
DIDN'T HAPPEN.

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>> YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO FACE YOUR
ACCUSER.

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SO THE COP LOOKS AT A PICTURE.
MAYBE IT'S NOT YOU.

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>> IT'S VIDEO.
I GET THIS POINT -- BUT IT'S NOT

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CANDID CAMERA.
THE OTHER SIDE IS THAT THE

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CAMERA IS ROLLING BEFORE YOU RUN
THE RED LIGHT AND AFTER YOU RUN

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THE RED LIGHT.
MAYBE YOU'RE BEING CHASED BY

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SOMEBODY OR MAYBE YOUR WIFE IS
HAVING CONTRACTIONS.

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>> AND YOU SIMPLY GET A TICKET
IN THE MAIL.

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AND IF WE TALKED ABOUT THIS --
20 YEARS AGO.

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REMEMBER GARY SCHUSTER?
I REMEMBER HIM -- HE LOVED THIS

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STORY AND IT NEVER GOT ANYWHERE
BECAUSE IT WAS NOT RIGHT BUT IS

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IT RIGHT NOW?
>> WE'RE GOING TO KEEP TALKING

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ABOUT IT IN PART BECAUSE
GOVERNMENT IS LOOKING FOR MORE

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WAYS TO BE MORE EFFICIENT AND A
LOT OF THAT MEANS LESS STUFF

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USING PEOPLE.
AND THIS WOULD --

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>> AND THEY ARE GREEDIER AND
THEY WANT MORE REVENUE.

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BINGO.
>> THEY ARE CHASING MORE SERIOUS

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OFFENSES THAN COPS HANGING OUT
AT THE INTERSECTION.

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>> WHAT ABOUT THE BOTTLE BILL?
THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE ANY

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DIFFERENT THIS TIME.
>> IT'S GOING TO HAVE TROUBLE

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AGAIN.
>> WHAT IS WRONG TO EXPANDING

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THIS.
>> I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH --

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EXPANDING THIS.
>> WHAT IS THE OPPOSITION?

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>> THE GROCERS ARE PART OF IT
AND THEN THE BEVERAGE

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ASSOCIATION TOO CONCERNED THAT
IF YOU START EXPANDING IT TO

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WATER BOTTLES AND FRUIT BOTTLES
THE GROCERY STORES ARE GOING TO

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BE DELUGED WITH MORE STUFF
BROUGHT IN THAT COULD CONTAIN

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GOD KNOWS WHAT.
>> AND THE PRICE TO CLEAN UP THE

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ENVIRONMENT -- MORE DIFFERENT
WAYS OF TIERRA GRANDE PACKAGING

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THEM.
WE HAD THE -- DEBATE OVER THE

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COLLAPSIBLE PACKAGES THAT WE HAD
TO PASS A LAW TO SPECIFICALLY

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SAY THEY ARE EXEMPT FROM THE
BOTTLE DEPOSIT OR THE PACKAGE

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DEPOSIT.
SO THE DIG -- AS WE'RE GETTING

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PUSH BACK FROM PEOPLE SAYING
MICHIGAN HAS LOW RECYCLING RATES

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COMPARED TO OTHER THAT'S AND
MAYBE IT'S TIME TO TAKE A BIGGER

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LOOK AT HOW WE ENCOURAGE
RECYCLING AND NOT JUST EXTENDING

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THE BOTTLE DEPOSIT TO MORE
TYPES.

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>> THEY ARE ALREADY OUTRAGED
ABOUT THE INFLUX OF OUT OF STATE

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BEVERAGE CONTAINERS.
THEY ARE TRYING TO CRACK DOWN --

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>> THE FAMOUS JERRY SEINFELD
EPISODE.

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>> AND THIS WOULD PROLIFERATE
EVEN MORE.

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>> POLITICALLY ISN'T THIS A GOOD
VOTE.

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>> YOU WOULD THINK SO.
AND I'VE GOT TO GIVE HIM CREDIT.

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AS FAR AS THIS NATIONWIDE
FEELING OF ENCOURAGING MORE

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RECYCLING EVEN IN THE CITY OF
LANSING THEY ARE GOING TOWARD

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THE BIG BINS NOW.
WE HAVE GOT THE GREEN THING NOW.

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NOW WE'RE GOING TO --
>> KYLE AND I ARE NEIGHBORS AND

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WE LOVE OUR RECYCLING PROGRAM
BECAUSE YOU PUT EVERYTHING INTO

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A CONTAIN AREA.
>> AND SO IT'S JUST GETTING

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EASIER AND EASIER.
RECYCLING IS GOING IN THAT

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DIRECTION AND IT'S ALMOST AS IF
EXPANDING THE BOTTLE BILL IS

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YESTERDAY'S IDEA.
>> WE TALKED LAST WEEK AND WHAT

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IS THE DATE TODAY?
THE 13th OF JUNE.

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A WEEK IN ADVANTAGES.
BUT WE TALKED ABOUT THIS TEA

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PARTY LETTER.
I'M ANXIOUS TO GET YOUR RESPONSE

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TO THE IMPACT ON THE GOVERNOR'S
RACE.

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IS IT A WASH?
>> A WASH?

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>> ANY IMPACT AT ALL?
FOR SNYDER'S RE-ELECTION.

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THE ANSWER IS NO.
>> KEN THEN WHY ARE YOU ASKING?

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[ LAUGHTER ]
>> JUST SAY THIS.

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WHO IS THE CANDIDATE?
>> IT DOESN'T MATTER.

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>> I TEND TO AGREE.
IT IS NOT GOING TO MATTER IN THE

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PRIMARY BUT IF THEY SIT DOWN --
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]

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SIMPLY BECAUSE REPUBLICANS DON'T
TURN OUT.

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I DON'T THINK THAT IS GOING ON
HAPPEN.

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>> A CLOSE RACE IT COULD MAKE A
DIFFERENCE.

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IF WE'RE TALKING 1% OR 2% BUT
HOW MANY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

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A FEW HUNDRED?
A THOUSAND.

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IN A GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION THE
WINNING CANDIDATE WILL PROBABLY

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HAVE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF
VOTES OVER THE OTHER PERSON SO A

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FEW THOUSAND MAY NOT MAKE A
DIFFERENCE.

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>> IT'S NOT JUST SNYDER.
BUT THE LEGISLATORS.

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THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT
PRIMARIES.

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THAT WOULD BE A REAL DANGER AND
THEY ARE VOTING ON THE BILL.

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>> PRECISELY SO IT'S AN OPEN
LETTER TO THE GOVERNOR FIRST AND

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THEN A FOLLOW-UP LETTER.
>> BY IMPLICATION.

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THE LEGISLATORS REALIZE THEY ARE
TALKING TO US TOO.

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>> I THINK RICK MADE THE POINT
LAST WEEK THAT WE'LL FIND OUT IF

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THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT IS A
99-POUND WEAKLING OR THE CHARLES

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ATLAS.
YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THAT.

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>> IT WILL BE A TEST BUT THERE
WILL BE MANY TESTS, TIM J. NOT

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AT LEGISLATIVE LEVEL.
>> WAS 2010 THE HIGH WATER MARK

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OF THE TEA PARTY OR IS THE TEA
PARTY NOW A LESS SIGNIFICANT

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PART OF A LARGER COALITION.
>> AND WE'RE ABOUT TO FIND OUT.

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LET'S DISCUSS THE ISSUE OF GAY
RIGHTS WITH OUR NEXT GUEST,

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PLEASE.
EMILY.

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>> EMILY DIEVENDORF.
SHE WORKED FOR TWO DEMOCRATIC

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HOUSE MEMBERS.
SHE IS A GRADUATE FOR THE JAMES

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MADISON COLLEGE OF MSU.
>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM AND

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RICK HAS THE FIRST QUESTION.
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT AMENDING THE

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CIVIL RIGHTS LAW THAT WE KNOW
THAT THERE ARE DISCUSSIONS

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UNDERWAY NOT JUST WITH DEMOCRATS
BUT WITH REPUBLICANS TO TRY AND

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TO SOMETHING TO AMEND THE LAW TO
INCLUDE LBGT RIGHTS AND

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PROTECTIONS WITHIN IT.
WHAT IS THE CASE THAT YOU MAKE

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TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT IT
A TIME TO GET ON BOARD.

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>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING
QUESTION BECAUSE WE THOUGHT

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THREE YEARS AGO THAT THE CASE
WOULD BE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

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AND THE CASE FOR ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT FOR CIVIL RIGHTSES

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THERE.
AND THE MICHIGAN COMMISSION JUST

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RECENTLY SUPPORTED THAT BY PUB
ISSUING THE REPORT SAYING THE

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DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THE LGBT
COMMUNITY HAS AN IN DISPUTABLE

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IMPACT --
>> AND THE CIVIL RIGHTS

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COMMISSION IS BEING RUN BY
APPOINTEES OF THE LAST

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ADMINISTRATION.
>> TWO ARE APPOINTEES -- SO MOST

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OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION
ARE SNYDER.

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>> IS IT NOT WORKING?
>> NO.

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IT IS WORKING BUT WHEN I'M TALK
TO REPUBLICANS THEY ARE SAYING

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THAT IS NOT ALL THEY CARE ABOUT.
>> WHAT DO THEY CARE ABOUT?

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>> AT THIS POINT I WOULD SAY
ABOUT FOUR DIFFERENT THINGS.

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ONE, WE DO HAVE THE ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT ARGUMENT.

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WE WANT TO ATTRACT AND RETAIN
THE BEST AND THE BRIGHTEST.

13:48.295 --> 13:51.696
AND TWO, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS
ABOUT THIS BIG.

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IT'S NOT GROWING.
IT'S TARGET DEMOGRAPHICS ARE

13:58.271 --> 14:04.375
EITHER NOT ACTIVE OR AGING.
>> THIS BIG IN THE LGBT

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COMMUNITY OR OVER-ALL.
EVEN THOUGH THEY CONTROL ALL OF

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STATE GOVERNMENT THEY ARE THIS
BIG.

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>> ABSOLUTELY.
IT IS STAGNANT AND THE POINT

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THAT YOU BRING UP BILL IS A
GREAT ONE AND THAT IS THE

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REPUBLICANS ARE IN LEADERSHIP
AND THEY DON'T REPRESENT THE

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MICHIGAN PUBLIC.
AND ALSO I HAVE REPUBLICANS

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SAYING TO ME I WISH YOU WOULD
NOT JUST TALK ABOUT WHY THAT WE

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SHOULD BE END IN THIS BASED ON
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE WE

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CARE ABOUT THE SOCIAL JUSTICE
ASPECT.

14:36.676 --> 14:39.978
EVERYBODY THAT I TALK TO KNOWS
SOMEBODY WHO'S GAY AND ALL

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REPUBLICANS WANT TO TELL ME
ABOUT WHO THEY KNOW.

14:43.016 --> 14:45.750
>> SO WHEN WILL YOU GET SOME
ACTION?

14:45.752 --> 14:48.219
>> I REALLY THINK THERE IS A
POSSIBILITY THAT WE'LL SEE

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MOVEMENT IN THIS LEGISLATIVE
SESSION OR NEXT BUT --

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>> IN THE FALL?
>> WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE

14:56.496 --> 14:59.330
GOVERNOR'S COMMENTS WHEN HE WAS
GIVEN A CHANCE TO EMBRACE THIS

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AND WHAT DID HE DO?
>> I THOUGHT THE GOVERNOR'S

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COMMUNICATION PERSON COULD HAVE
DONE A BETTER JOB IN GIVING HIM

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A RESPONSE TO USE.
WHILE I KNOW HE HAD BEEN TRYING

15:11.044 --> 15:15.313
TO SAY WHAT HE SAID WAS THAT
CIVIL RIGHTS AND OR BASIC RIGHTS

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AND EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE
LAW WAS NOT ON HIS AGENDA.

15:18.952 --> 15:23.187
AND AT THIS POINT IT'S VERY MUCH
TIED TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

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WHICH HE CONSIDERS TO BE A MAJOR
PRIORITY IN HIS POLICY PLATFORM.

15:27.594 --> 15:30.828
>> BUT HE DID NOT SAY THAT.
HE SAID --

15:30.830 --> 15:34.732
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]
>> IT'S NOT A NECESSARILY BAD

15:34.734 --> 15:36.634
THING --
[ LAUGHTER ]

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WHY EXACTLY.
HE SAID THAT HE HAD OTHER

15:39.105 --> 15:43.207
IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO.
>> HE SAID WE CAN ONLY DO SO

15:43.209 --> 15:45.576
MUCH.
>> AND THERE WERE OTHER

15:45.578 --> 15:48.179
IMPORTANT THINGS.
>> SO YOUR POINT IS THAT THIS

15:48.181 --> 15:51.282
TAKES A BACK SEAT?
>> RIGHT NOW TO SOME PEOPLE IT

15:51.284 --> 15:55.920
DOES BUT TO MOST PEOPLE REGARD
REST OF WHAT SIDE OF THE AISLE

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THEY ARE ON THEY ARE SEEING A
REAL BENEFIT TO GIVING LGBT

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RIGHTS A REAL SEAT AT THE TABLE
AND CONSIDERING HOW THAT MIGHT

16:06.099 --> 16:09.534
BE BENEFICIAL TO THEM AND TO
MICHIGAN AS A WHOLE.

16:09.536 --> 16:14.639
>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT WITH LGBT HOW MUCH

16:14.641 --> 16:18.343
MORE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN A
PERFECT WORLD WITH FULL RIGHTS

16:18.345 --> 16:21.980
WOULD THERE BE IN MICHIGAN?
WHAT PERCENTAGE INCREASE COULD

16:21.982 --> 16:25.283
WE SEE IN MICHIGAN IN ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT?

16:25.285 --> 16:33.091
>> RIGHT NOW OUR CORPORATIONS
ARE SIGNING ON TO -- SAY THAT IT

16:33.093 --> 16:39.063
IS AT VERY LEAST A WAIT FOR THEM
--

16:39.065 --> 16:41.599
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]
>> WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE

16:41.601 --> 16:47.305
POPULATION IS LGBT?
>> 3% TO 11%.

16:47.307 --> 16:52.643
>> SO THIS THINK THAT WOULD BE
ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF ECONOMIC

16:52.645 --> 16:54.012
GROWTH.
>> THAT IS MASS IS REALLY

16:54.014 --> 16:56.481
INTERESTING.
-- THAT IS WHAT IS REALLY

16:56.483 --> 16:59.684
INTERESTING ABOUT THIS.
WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT JUST

16:59.686 --> 17:10.595
GIVING LGBT COMMUNITY JOBS.
-- RICHARD FLORIDA -- HE --

17:10.597 --> 17:19.237
>> HE WROTE THE RISE --
>> THOSE WHO GO INTO THESE

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FIELDS USUALLY NOT LGBT ARE
ATTRACTED TO THE SAME DIVERSE

17:25.111 --> 17:44.095
OPEN ACCEPTING PROTECTIVE OF
MINORITIES COMMUNITIES THAT THE

17:44.097 --> 18:10.521
STRICT CRITERIA.
>> WHY 2016.

18:10.523 --> 18:15.827
AND NOT 2014.
>> 2014 WOULD BE WONDERFUL IN AN

18:15.829 --> 18:22.100
IDEAL WORLD AND WHEN WE WIN IT
NEEDS TO BE A SUSTAINABLE CHANGE

18:22.102 --> 18:24.368
AND THE RESULT OF A CLIMATE
SHIFT IN MICHIGAN.

18:24.370 --> 18:29.373
MICHIGAN CITIZENS TO BE EDUCATED
-- WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET TO

18:29.375 --> 18:31.609
THE BALLOT.
I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT

18:31.611 --> 18:36.314
IT'S SOMETHING THAT NOBODY WOULD
WANT TO REVERSE.

18:36.316 --> 18:39.684
>> WELL YOU HAVE TO AMEND THE
CONSTITUTION.

18:39.686 --> 18:42.854
AREN'T YOU TALKING ABOUT A
CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT AT THIS

18:42.856 --> 18:45.256
POINT?
>> AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET

18:45.258 --> 18:51.329
THIS ON THE BALLOT --
>> IT WILL NEVER COME --

18:51.331 --> 18:54.132
>> I DON'T SEE THIS CURRENT
LEGISLATIVE BODY PASSING THE

18:54.134 --> 18:57.635
MARRIAGE BILLS THROUGH.
TO PUT IT ON THE BALLOT.

18:57.637 --> 19:01.005
>> YOU WOULD NOT SEE A
TWO-THIRDS SUPER MAJORITY?

19:01.007 --> 19:03.741
>> NO.
>> MARRIAGE IS NOT A PRIORITY

19:03.743 --> 19:07.345
FOR REPUBLICANS.
>> IS IT A PROCESS OF EDUCATING

19:07.347 --> 19:11.616
THE PUBLIC BETWEEN NOW AND 2016
OR BECAUSE IT'S A PRESIDENTIAL

19:11.618 --> 19:15.119
ELECTION YEAR AND MORE PEOPLE
WOULD TURN OUT ANY WAY WHO WOULD

19:15.121 --> 19:18.589
BE MORE LIKELY TO SUPPORT WHAT
YOU WANT.

19:18.591 --> 19:23.261
>> NOW YOU'RE THINKING LIKE THE
POLITICAL STRATEGIST THAT I

19:23.263 --> 19:26.230
KNOW.
AND OF COURSE -- I'M THINKING OF

19:26.232 --> 19:30.935
COMING AT THIS FROM ALL SIDES SO
THAT MEANS I'M NOT COMING IT'S

19:30.937 --> 19:33.771
FROM SOME BALLOT MEASURE.
BUT YES.

19:33.773 --> 19:37.275
I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE
GOING TO THE POLLS AT THE TIME

19:37.277 --> 19:42.914
THAT VOTERS ARE ENGAGED.
>> AND HE WOULD TELL YOU THAT

19:42.916 --> 19:49.253
THOSE POLLS ARE DISTORTED ON THE
CHANGE THAT HAS ALLEGEDLY

19:49.255 --> 19:51.022
HAPPENED.
>> I WOULD SAY MOST OF HIS

19:51.024 --> 19:55.860
VIEWERS DISTORTED.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE GETS HIS

19:55.862 --> 19:57.862
RESEARCH.
IT'S NOT SUPPORTED BY ANYTHING

19:57.864 --> 20:04.335
THAT WE SEE THESE DAYS AND THEY
ARE OFTEN REALLY IRRATIONAL

20:04.337 --> 20:07.638
CLAIMS THAT PREY ON THE
IRRATIONAL FEARS OF THE PUBLIC

20:07.640 --> 20:10.908
AND THOSE FEARS THAT TEND TO
COME FROM LACK OF INFORMATION

20:10.910 --> 20:15.046
NOT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AND
RESEARCH AND THAT IS

20:15.048 --> 20:16.180
UNFORTUNATE.
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]

20:16.182 --> 20:20.451
>> CAN YOU TALK ABOUT EMILY --
ARE YOU TELLING FOLKS WHO WANT A

20:20.453 --> 20:26.424
2014 ELECTION THAT TO HOLD BACK
WAIT UNTIL '16 BECAUSE YOU'RE

20:26.426 --> 20:29.627
PROBABLY GETTING PRESSURE TO
MOVE ON THIS NEXT YEAR.

20:29.629 --> 20:32.663
>> THERE IS INTERCOMMING FROM
JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY AND I AM AT

20:32.665 --> 20:40.137
LEAST SAYING I'M OPEN TO
2014-2016 IF SOMEBODY CAN

20:40.139 --> 20:46.844
PRESENT A PLAN THAT IS BETTER.
I WANT IT TO BE A REALLY SMART

20:46.846 --> 20:49.513
STRATEGIC EFFORT THAT COVERS ALL
OF THE BASICS.

20:49.515 --> 20:51.249
I'M OPEN TO HAVING THE
DISCUSSION.

20:51.251 --> 20:55.353
WHEN WE GO TO THE BALLOT WE'RE
ALL ON THE SAME PAGE AND DO IT

20:55.355 --> 20:58.422
IN THE SAME COHESIVE WAY AND
SMOOTH.

20:58.424 --> 21:03.628
I WANT ALL OF THE MOVING PARTS.
>> THE POLLING DATA SUGGESTS

21:03.630 --> 21:08.099
THAT YOU'RE ALREADY THERE.
>> SO,.

21:08.101 --> 21:10.668
>> MAYBE THE POLLS ARE WRONG.
>> NO.

21:10.670 --> 21:13.337
WE DON'T BELIEVE THE POLLS ARE
WRONG AND YET I THINK THAT ONE

21:13.339 --> 21:17.642
THING THAT WE DO KNOW WORKING
IN POLITICS IS POLLING NUMBERS

21:17.644 --> 21:20.478
DON'T NECESSARILY TRANSLATE INTO
VOTES.

21:20.480 --> 21:24.915
>> YOU WANT TO BE ABOUT 60%.
>> I WOULD LOVE TO BE AT 60% AND

21:24.917 --> 21:27.151
WE'RE SEEING THERE IS CONSISTENT
INCREASE.

21:27.153 --> 21:31.722
WE'RE NOT GOING BACKWARDS AND
I'D LIKE TO SEE CONSISTENT

21:31.724 --> 21:35.226
MAJORITY SUPPORT OVER THE COURSE
OF A FEW POLLS.

21:35.228 --> 21:38.963
>> IT'S POSSIBLE IT COULD GO
BACKWARDS.

21:38.965 --> 21:43.334
POLITICAL WINDS SHIFT.
WE COULD HAVE STATES REVOKING

21:43.336 --> 21:46.337
THEIR MARRIAGE LAWS.
>>  I'LL DON'T SEE THE PUBLIC

21:46.339 --> 21:49.674
SUPPORT IS GOING TO GO BACKWARDS
AND THE POLLS THAT WE'VE SEEN

21:49.676 --> 21:53.878
THEY ARE NOT THE FIRST MAJORITY
SUPPORT FOR MARRIAGE EQUALITY

21:53.880 --> 21:58.182
THAT WE'VE SEEN IN MICHIGAN BUT
THEY ARE THE THIRD OR FOURTH

21:58.184 --> 22:02.420
WITHIN THE LAST SIX MONTHS.
>> WHAT IS THE POSITION ON THE

22:02.422 --> 22:04.822
PRIVACY ISSUES LIKE WE WERE
DISCUSSING IN THE FIRST PART OF

22:04.824 --> 22:08.659
THE PROGRAM?
VERSUS PERSONAL -- SECURITY BY

22:08.661 --> 22:12.930
THE GOVERNMENT.
DOES THE LGBT COMMUNITY HAVE ANY

22:12.932 --> 22:18.536
POSITIONS ON ANY OF THOSE ISSUES
-- INTRUSION BY THE GOVERNMENT.

22:18.538 --> 22:24.408
WHETHER IT'S DNA SWABS.
WHETHER IT'S SECURITY LEAKS OF

22:24.410 --> 22:26.010
CLASSIFIED INFORMATION AT THE
FEDERAL LEVEL.

22:26.012 --> 22:32.750
DO YOU CARE ABOUT THAT?
>> HONESTLY THE LGBT COMMUNITY

22:32.752 --> 22:39.357
IS A DEMOGRAPHIC WITHIN A
DEMOGRAPHIC.

22:39.359 --> 22:44.228
WE ALSO ARE WORKERS AND WE'RE
ALSO CITIZENS THAT NEED TO WALK

22:44.230 --> 22:47.932
DOWN THE STREET --
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]

22:47.934 --> 22:50.801
>> NOT ALL OVER THE MAP.
WE JUST HAVE THE SAME CONCERNS

22:50.803 --> 22:53.037
THAT ANY OTHER CITIZENS IN THE
COUNTRY HAVE.

22:53.039 --> 22:56.941
>> HOW DO YOU TAKE ON THE
CATHOLIC CHURCH ON THIS ISSUE?

22:56.943 --> 23:02.146
>> THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WHAT
WE'RE FINDING FROM A RECENT POLL

23:02.148 --> 23:09.153
IS 59% OF CATHOLICNESS MICHIGAN
ARE IN FAVOR OF EQUALITY.

23:09.155 --> 23:12.423
>> DOES THAT MEAN MARRIAGE
RIGHTS?

23:12.425 --> 23:16.227
>> MARRIAGE.
GAY MARRIAGE.

23:16.229 --> 23:23.634
>> 60% OF CATHOLICS AND 60% OF
LUTHERANS AND.

23:23.636 --> 23:31.142
>> LAST WEEK JASE BOLGER SAID HE
WAS OPEN BUT HE SAID THE

23:31.144 --> 23:39.250
DISCUSSION TOO OFTEN HAS BEEN
DEHUMANIZING OF LGBT PEOPLE AND

23:39.252 --> 23:45.222
DEMONIZING OF RELIGIOUS PEOPLE
WHO SEE A MORALE PROBLEM THERE.

23:45.224 --> 23:49.794
IS THE LBGT RIGHTS MOVEMENT
GUILTY OF THAT.

23:49.796 --> 23:56.167
>> THAT IS A STEREOTYPE AND IT
IS NOT TRUE.

23:56.169 --> 24:00.070
WE'RE NOT LACKING FAITH.
WE'RE LACKING CHURCHES THAT

24:00.072 --> 24:03.474
ACCEPT US.
WE HAVE A GREAT NUMBER OF LGBT

24:03.476 --> 24:08.546
COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHO ARE VERY
RELIGIOUS AND HAVE HAD TO

24:08.548 --> 24:12.450
PRACTICE ON THEIR OWN AND I'M
NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT MORE

24:12.452 --> 24:20.057
LIBERAL DENOMINATIONS.
WE HAVE LGBT CATHOLIC.

24:20.059 --> 24:23.794
>> THE PROBLEM IS THE HIERARCHY
OF THE CHURCH.

24:23.796 --> 24:25.763
>> YES.
AND WHEN YOU MENTION THE

24:25.765 --> 24:28.999
CATHOLIC CHURCH IMMEDIATELY WHAT
I THINK OF IS THE PROBLEM IN

24:29.001 --> 24:31.268
MICHIGAN WITH THE POLITICAL
LEADERSHIP.

24:31.270 --> 24:35.739
IT IS NOT THAT THE CATHOLIC
MEMBERSHIP IS ANTI.

24:35.741 --> 24:39.643
IT'S THE CATHOLIC LEADERSHIP IS
DIGGING IN THEIR HEELS AND

24:39.645 --> 24:43.481
REFUSING TO MOVE ON THEIR
POSITION IN ORDER TO ADDRESS THE

24:43.483 --> 24:48.285
NEEDS AND --
>> AND THEY WILL SPEND A BOAT

24:48.287 --> 24:51.889
LOAD OF MONEY TO FIGHT YOU.
>> ABSOLUTELY.

24:51.891 --> 24:54.792
>> YOU ASSUME THAT.
>> WE HAVE TO.

24:54.794 --> 24:59.363
>> HOW MUCH DO YOU HAVE TO COME
UP WITH?

24:59.365 --> 25:03.367
>> $12 MILLION.
IF YOU'VE GOT THAT ON YOU I'LL

25:03.369 --> 25:05.469
TAKE IT FROM YOU.
>> HOW MUCH OF THAT WILL BE OUT

25:05.471 --> 25:10.307
OF STATE MONEY?
>> I HOPE MOST OF THIS WILL COME

25:10.309 --> 25:14.245
FROM WITHIN MICHIGAN.
>> ANOTHER SIDE IS GOING TO SAY

25:14.247 --> 25:17.214
THOSE OUTSIDE GROUPS ARE COMING
IN --

25:17.216 --> 25:20.351
>> AND YOU KNOW WHAT IS SO FUNNY
ABOUT THAT IS ANY TIME WE TRY TO

25:20.353 --> 25:24.088
PASS A HUMAN RIGHTS ORDINANCE WE
ARE COMMITTED TO LETTING THE

25:24.090 --> 25:30.394
COMMUNITY LEAD.
WE'RE MID TO LETTING THE

25:30.396 --> 25:33.597
MUNICIPALITY DECIDE.
>> YOU WOULD TAKE OUT OF STATE

25:33.599 --> 25:35.065
MONEY?
>> ABSOLUTELY.

25:35.067 --> 25:38.536
WE'LL TAKE SOME HELP BUT WE
DON'T WANT TO MAKE IT AN EFFORT

25:38.538 --> 25:42.973
OF A NATIONAL MOVEMENT.
WE WANT TO MAKE IT A MICHIGAN

25:42.975 --> 25:47.578
MOVEMENT.
WHERE NATIONAL IAN TEE LGBT

25:47.580 --> 25:50.681
ORGANIZATIONS WILL POUR IN MONEY
TO STOP MUNICIPAL PROGRESS.

25:50.683 --> 25:53.384
>> WE'RE OUT OF TIME.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON THE

25:53.386 --> 25:59.657
PROGRAM.
DON'T FORGET WE'RE AT WKAR.ORG.

25:59.659 --> 26:14.638
WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK RIGHT
HERE ON "OFF THE RECORD."

04:46:55.233 --> 04:46:59.233
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