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>> WELCOME BACK. 
"OFF THE RECORD" STARTS RIGHT

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NOW. 
ON THE PANEL WE HAVE KYLE MELINN

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AND BILL BALLENGER ALONG WITH 
RICK PLUTA.

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A DNA BILL IS MOVING. 
STEW PACK URGED TO RUN FOR

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GOVERNOR AND LATER ON EMILY FROM 
EQUALITY MICHIGAN WILL BE HERE

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TO DISCUSS THAT AND MORE COMING 
UP ON "OFF THE RECORD."

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GETTING THE INSIDE OUT. 
IT'S "OFF THE RECORD" WITH

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SENIOR CAPITAL CORRESPONDENT TIM 
SKUBICK AND HIS CAPITAL PRESS

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CORE COLLEAGUES.

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AND NOW THIS EDITION OF "OFF THE 
RECORD" WITH TIM SKUBICK.

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>> THANKS, AND WELCOME TO THIS 
WEEK'S EDITION OF "OFF THE

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RECORD." 
WE HAD LEGISLATION THAT WILL

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ALLOW THE COPS AFTER THEY'VE 
ARRESTED YOU TO PUT A SWAB IN

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THE MOUTH FOR SOME DNA. 
>> THE U.S. SUPREME COURT HAS

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DECIDED THAT THEY HAVE YOUR 
FINGERPRINTS BUT THEY ARE GOING

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TO COLLECT YOUR DNA SAMPLE IF 
YOU'VE COMMITTED A FELONY AND

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WE'VE GOT LEGISLATION IN THE 
SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE THAT

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WILL ALLOW THE STATE TO 
PARTICIPATE.

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OBVIOUSLY THIS HAS HAD THE CIVIL 
RIGHTS GROUP ALL EXCITED BUT

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THEY'VE PUT IN A PROVISION THAT 
IF YOU'RE INNOCENT THEY WILL

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THROW AWAY YOUR DNA SAMPLE. 
>> GIVEN WHAT THE FEDERAL

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GOVERNMENTS ALLEGEDLY DOING ON 
THE NATIONAL LEVEL.

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WOULD YOU TRUST THE GOVERNMENT? 
>> THAT IS THE ISSUE.

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>> THAT WAS A QUESTION, 
MR. BALLENGER.

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>> THIS IS A PIECE WITH THE 
STUDY BEING -- THE TRAFFIC

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LIGHTS. 
PUBLIC SAFETY.

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IT'S AN INTRUSION. 
THE SAME IDEA OF GOVERNMENT

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INTRUDERRING ON YOUR PRIVATE 
SPACE WHETHER TO TAKE A SWAB

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FROM YOUR CHEEK OR STUDY IF 
YOU'VE RUN A RED LIGHT AT SOME

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REMOTE INTERSECTION AND THERE IS 
NO COP AROUND AND EVERYTHING

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E CAN IN -- WEEK IN

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WASHINGTON IT'S UNBELIEVABLE. 
A HUGE CONFLICT BETWEEN WHAT THE

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GOVERNMENT IS ABLE TO DO IN THE 
NAME USUALLY OF PROTECTING

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SECURITY. 
>> IN THIS CASE FIGHTING CRIME

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OR SOLVING COLD CASES. 
>> AND INTRUDERRING ON YOUR

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PRIVATE BEHAVIOR. 
>> WE'LL GET TO THE CAMERAS IN

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JUST A SECOND. 
>> WE'RE DEBATING WHAT IT MEANS

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TO BE LIVING IN THE MODERN 
SURVEILLANCE SOCIETY AND HOW

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MUCH GOVERNMENT CAN DO AND WHAT 
WE'LL ALLOW.

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THE QUESTION ON THE DNA SWABS IS 
IS DNA LIKE FINGERPRINTS?

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>> NO. 
IT IS NOT.

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>> WHY NOT? 
>> BECAUSE THERE IS MORE

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INFORMATION. 
>> THE SAME PRINCIPLES.

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>> YES. 
FINGERPRINTS ARE OKAY.

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DNA IS THE NEXT STEP UP AND MORE 
EFFECTIVE.

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>> EVEN THE ACLU IS NEUTRAL ON 
THIS BILL.

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THEY WOULD LIKE TO OPPOSE IT. 
>> WHY?

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>> THEY ARE NEUTRAL NOW -- 
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]

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>> DOES THIS BECOME LIKE THE 
SEAT BELT LAW IT'S STARTS OUT AS

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A SECONDARY OFFENSE AND AS WE 
GOT MORE COMFORTABLE IT BECAME A

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PRIMARY -- 
>> IT CREEPS EVER UPWARD.

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MORE AND MORE INTRUSION. 
>> DNA HAS BECOME A CENTRAL PART

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OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE. 
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]

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>> ESPECIALLY IN RAPE CASES IT'S 
SO VITAL.

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IT'S SO HARD TO GET COMFORTABLE 
WITH THE IDEA THAT SOMETHING

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THAT BELONGS -- THAT IS YOUR 
VERY MAKE UP AND THAT WOULD BE

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ON FILE. 
>> IF THE ACLU IS NEUTRAL IT'S

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GOING TO HAPPEN AND WE MIGHT AS 
WELL ACCEPT IT.

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[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ] 
>> I'M NOT SAN QUINN -- ABOUT

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THE FORMER EITHER ABOUT THE DNA. 
JUST REALISTICALLY IT'S GOING TO

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HAPPEN. 
POLITICALLY IN THE LEGISLATURE

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YOU KNOW RICK JONES IS CHAIRMAN 
OF THE COMMITTEE.

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IF THE HOUSE PASSES THIS THING 
ON THE TRAFFIC LIGHT

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SURVEILLANCE IT'S GOING NOWHERE 
IN MY COMMITTEE.

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>> IT'S ROBO COP. 
>> AND A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE

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PROBLEMS WITH THAT. 
HAS GOT MORE PROBLEMS.

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>> WHAT IF WE SAVE LIVES BY 
CATCHING SPEEDERS GOING THROUGH

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RED LIGHTS. 
>> PEOPLE THAT PULL UP AND USE

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RED LIGHTS AS STOP SIGNS. 
YOU DON'T DO THAT, TIM.

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>> I DON'T EVEN DRIVE. 
[ LAUGHTER ]

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AND WELL, AND ALSO WHAT IS THE 
APPEALS PROCESS.

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RIGHT NOW 23 A COP STOPS YOU FOR 
DOING THE SAME YOU GET TO GO TO

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COURT AND SAY HERE IS WHY THAT 
DIDN'T HAPPEN.

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>> YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO FACE YOUR 
ACCUSER.

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SO THE COP LOOKS AT A PICTURE. 
MAYBE IT'S NOT YOU.

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>> IT'S VIDEO. 
I GET THIS POINT -- BUT IT'S NOT

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CANDID CAMERA. 
THE OTHER SIDE IS THAT THE

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CAMERA IS ROLLING BEFORE YOU RUN 
THE RED LIGHT AND AFTER YOU RUN

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THE RED LIGHT. 
MAYBE YOU'RE BEING CHASED BY

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SOMEBODY OR MAYBE YOUR WIFE IS 
HAVING CONTRACTIONS.

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>> AND YOU SIMPLY GET A TICKET 
IN THE MAIL.

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AND IF WE TALKED ABOUT THIS -- 
20 YEARS AGO.

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REMEMBER GARY SCHUSTER? 
I REMEMBER HIM -- HE LOVED THIS

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STORY AND IT NEVER GOT ANYWHERE 
BECAUSE IT WAS NOT RIGHT BUT IS

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00:07:03,157 --> 00:07:05,957
IT RIGHT NOW? 
>> WE'RE GOING TO KEEP TALKING

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ABOUT IT IN PART BECAUSE 
GOVERNMENT IS LOOKING FOR MORE

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00:07:10,397 --> 00:07:13,765
WAYS TO BE MORE EFFICIENT AND A 
LOT OF THAT MEANS LESS STUFF

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USING PEOPLE. 
AND THIS WOULD --

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>> AND THEY ARE GREEDIER AND 
THEY WANT MORE REVENUE.

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BINGO. 
>> THEY ARE CHASING MORE SERIOUS

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OFFENSES THAN COPS HANGING OUT 
AT THE INTERSECTION.

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>> WHAT ABOUT THE BOTTLE BILL? 
THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE ANY

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DIFFERENT THIS TIME. 
>> IT'S GOING TO HAVE TROUBLE

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AGAIN. 
>> WHAT IS WRONG TO EXPANDING

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THIS. 
>> I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH --

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EXPANDING THIS. 
>> WHAT IS THE OPPOSITION?

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>> THE GROCERS ARE PART OF IT 
AND THEN THE BEVERAGE

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ASSOCIATION TOO CONCERNED THAT 
IF YOU START EXPANDING IT TO

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WATER BOTTLES AND FRUIT BOTTLES 
THE GROCERY STORES ARE GOING TO

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BE DELUGED WITH MORE STUFF 
BROUGHT IN THAT COULD CONTAIN

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GOD KNOWS WHAT. 
>> AND THE PRICE TO CLEAN UP THE

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ENVIRONMENT -- MORE DIFFERENT 
WAYS OF TIERRA GRANDE PACKAGING

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THEM. 
WE HAD THE -- DEBATE OVER THE

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COLLAPSIBLE PACKAGES THAT WE HAD 
TO PASS A LAW TO SPECIFICALLY

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SAY THEY ARE EXEMPT FROM THE 
BOTTLE DEPOSIT OR THE PACKAGE

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DEPOSIT. 
SO THE DIG -- AS WE'RE GETTING

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PUSH BACK FROM PEOPLE SAYING 
MICHIGAN HAS LOW RECYCLING RATES

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COMPARED TO OTHER THAT'S AND 
MAYBE IT'S TIME TO TAKE A BIGGER

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LOOK AT HOW WE ENCOURAGE 
RECYCLING AND NOT JUST EXTENDING

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THE BOTTLE DEPOSIT TO MORE 
TYPES.

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>> THEY ARE ALREADY OUTRAGED 
ABOUT THE INFLUX OF OUT OF STATE

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BEVERAGE CONTAINERS. 
THEY ARE TRYING TO CRACK DOWN --

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>> THE FAMOUS JERRY SEINFELD 
EPISODE.

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>> AND THIS WOULD PROLIFERATE 
EVEN MORE.

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>> POLITICALLY ISN'T THIS A GOOD 
VOTE.

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>> YOU WOULD THINK SO. 
AND I'VE GOT TO GIVE HIM CREDIT.

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AS FAR AS THIS NATIONWIDE 
FEELING OF ENCOURAGING MORE

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RECYCLING EVEN IN THE CITY OF 
LANSING THEY ARE GOING TOWARD

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THE BIG BINS NOW. 
WE HAVE GOT THE GREEN THING NOW.

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NOW WE'RE GOING TO -- 
>> KYLE AND I ARE NEIGHBORS AND

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WE LOVE OUR RECYCLING PROGRAM 
BECAUSE YOU PUT EVERYTHING INTO

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A CONTAIN AREA. 
>> AND SO IT'S JUST GETTING

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EASIER AND EASIER. 
RECYCLING IS GOING IN THAT

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DIRECTION AND IT'S ALMOST AS IF 
EXPANDING THE BOTTLE BILL IS

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YESTERDAY'S IDEA. 
>> WE TALKED LAST WEEK AND WHAT

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IS THE DATE TODAY? 
THE 13th OF JUNE.

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A WEEK IN ADVANTAGES. 
BUT WE TALKED ABOUT THIS TEA

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PARTY LETTER. 
I'M ANXIOUS TO GET YOUR RESPONSE

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TO THE IMPACT ON THE GOVERNOR'S 
RACE.

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IS IT A WASH? 
>> A WASH?

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00:10:03,270 --> 00:10:08,740
>> ANY IMPACT AT ALL? 
FOR SNYDER'S RE-ELECTION.

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00:10:08,742 --> 00:10:14,579
THE ANSWER IS NO. 
>> KEN THEN WHY ARE YOU ASKING?

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00:10:14,581 --> 00:10:17,882
[ LAUGHTER ] 
>> JUST SAY THIS.

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00:10:17,884 --> 00:10:21,486
WHO IS THE CANDIDATE? 
>> IT DOESN'T MATTER.

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00:10:21,488 --> 00:10:25,757
>> I TEND TO AGREE. 
IT IS NOT GOING TO MATTER IN THE

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00:10:25,759 --> 00:10:32,464
PRIMARY BUT IF THEY SIT DOWN -- 
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]

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00:10:32,466 --> 00:10:34,366
SIMPLY BECAUSE REPUBLICANS DON'T 
TURN OUT.

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00:10:34,368 --> 00:10:37,636
I DON'T THINK THAT IS GOING ON 
HAPPEN.

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00:10:37,638 --> 00:10:40,372
>> A CLOSE RACE IT COULD MAKE A 
DIFFERENCE.

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00:10:40,374 --> 00:10:45,310
IF WE'RE TALKING 1% OR 2% BUT 
HOW MANY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

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00:10:45,312 --> 00:10:48,079
A FEW HUNDRED? 
A THOUSAND.

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00:10:48,081 --> 00:10:51,116
IN A GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION THE 
WINNING CANDIDATE WILL PROBABLY

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00:10:51,118 --> 00:10:54,819
HAVE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF 
VOTES OVER THE OTHER PERSON SO A

144
00:10:54,821 --> 00:10:57,389
FEW THOUSAND MAY NOT MAKE A 
DIFFERENCE.

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00:10:57,391 --> 00:11:00,925
>> IT'S NOT JUST SNYDER. 
BUT THE LEGISLATORS.

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00:11:00,927 --> 00:11:03,561
THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT 
PRIMARIES.

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00:11:03,563 --> 00:11:07,966
THAT WOULD BE A REAL DANGER AND 
THEY ARE VOTING ON THE BILL.

148
00:11:07,968 --> 00:11:11,770
>> PRECISELY SO IT'S AN OPEN 
LETTER TO THE GOVERNOR FIRST AND

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00:11:11,772 --> 00:11:15,874
THEN A FOLLOW-UP LETTER. 
>> BY IMPLICATION.

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00:11:15,876 --> 00:11:18,043
THE LEGISLATORS REALIZE THEY ARE 
TALKING TO US TOO.

151
00:11:18,045 --> 00:11:22,714
>> I THINK RICK MADE THE POINT 
LAST WEEK THAT WE'LL FIND OUT IF

152
00:11:22,716 --> 00:11:29,521
THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT IS A 
99-POUND WEAKLING OR THE CHARLES

153
00:11:29,523 --> 00:11:30,922
ATLAS. 
YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THAT.

154
00:11:30,924 --> 00:11:35,393
>> IT WILL BE A TEST BUT THERE 
WILL BE MANY TESTS, TIM J. NOT

155
00:11:35,395 --> 00:11:41,132
AT LEGISLATIVE LEVEL. 
>> WAS 2010 THE HIGH WATER MARK

156
00:11:41,134 --> 00:11:45,170
OF THE TEA PARTY OR IS THE TEA 
PARTY NOW A LESS SIGNIFICANT

157
00:11:45,172 --> 00:11:48,873
PART OF A LARGER COALITION. 
>> AND WE'RE ABOUT TO FIND OUT.

158
00:11:48,875 --> 00:11:52,811
LET'S DISCUSS THE ISSUE OF GAY 
RIGHTS WITH OUR NEXT GUEST,

159
00:11:52,813 --> 00:11:55,380
PLEASE. 
EMILY.

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00:11:55,382 --> 00:12:02,020
>> EMILY DIEVENDORF. 
SHE WORKED FOR TWO DEMOCRATIC

161
00:12:02,022 --> 00:12:05,890
HOUSE MEMBERS. 
SHE IS A GRADUATE FOR THE JAMES

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00:12:05,892 --> 00:12:12,931
MADISON COLLEGE OF MSU. 
>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM AND

163
00:12:12,933 --> 00:12:18,570
RICK HAS THE FIRST QUESTION. 
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT AMENDING THE

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00:12:18,572 --> 00:12:22,874
CIVIL RIGHTS LAW THAT WE KNOW 
THAT THERE ARE DISCUSSIONS

165
00:12:22,876 --> 00:12:27,579
UNDERWAY NOT JUST WITH DEMOCRATS 
BUT WITH REPUBLICANS TO TRY AND

166
00:12:27,581 --> 00:12:33,785
TO SOMETHING TO AMEND THE LAW TO 
INCLUDE LBGT RIGHTS AND

167
00:12:33,787 --> 00:12:35,820
PROTECTIONS WITHIN IT. 
WHAT IS THE CASE THAT YOU MAKE

168
00:12:35,822 --> 00:12:39,357
TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT IT 
A TIME TO GET ON BOARD.

169
00:12:39,359 --> 00:12:42,594
>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING 
QUESTION BECAUSE WE THOUGHT

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00:12:42,596 --> 00:12:46,531
THREE YEARS AGO THAT THE CASE 
WOULD BE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

171
00:12:46,533 --> 00:12:50,001
AND THE CASE FOR ECONOMIC 
DEVELOPMENT FOR CIVIL RIGHTSES

172
00:12:50,003 --> 00:12:52,971
THERE. 
AND THE MICHIGAN COMMISSION JUST

173
00:12:52,973 --> 00:12:57,375
RECENTLY SUPPORTED THAT BY PUB 
ISSUING THE REPORT SAYING THE

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00:12:57,377 --> 00:13:02,981
DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THE LGBT 
COMMUNITY HAS AN IN DISPUTABLE

175
00:13:02,983 --> 00:13:05,984
IMPACT -- 
>> AND THE CIVIL RIGHTS

176
00:13:05,986 --> 00:13:09,154
COMMISSION IS BEING RUN BY 
APPOINTEES OF THE LAST

177
00:13:09,156 --> 00:13:16,728
ADMINISTRATION. 
>> TWO ARE APPOINTEES -- SO MOST

178
00:13:16,730 --> 00:13:22,133
OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION 
ARE SNYDER.

179
00:13:22,135 --> 00:13:24,469
>> IS IT NOT WORKING? 
>> NO.

180
00:13:24,471 --> 00:13:28,640
IT IS WORKING BUT WHEN I'M TALK 
TO REPUBLICANS THEY ARE SAYING

181
00:13:28,642 --> 00:13:33,111
THAT IS NOT ALL THEY CARE ABOUT. 
>> WHAT DO THEY CARE ABOUT?

182
00:13:33,113 --> 00:13:39,384
>> AT THIS POINT I WOULD SAY 
ABOUT FOUR DIFFERENT THINGS.

183
00:13:39,386 --> 00:13:42,887
ONE, WE DO HAVE THE ECONOMIC 
DEVELOPMENT ARGUMENT.

184
00:13:42,889 --> 00:13:48,293
WE WANT TO ATTRACT AND RETAIN 
THE BEST AND THE BRIGHTEST.

185
00:13:48,295 --> 00:13:51,696
AND TWO, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS 
ABOUT THIS BIG.

186
00:13:51,698 --> 00:13:58,269
IT'S NOT GROWING. 
IT'S TARGET DEMOGRAPHICS ARE

187
00:13:58,271 --> 00:14:04,375
EITHER NOT ACTIVE OR AGING. 
>> THIS BIG IN THE LGBT

188
00:14:04,377 --> 00:14:07,212
COMMUNITY OR OVER-ALL. 
EVEN THOUGH THEY CONTROL ALL OF

189
00:14:07,214 --> 00:14:09,714
STATE GOVERNMENT THEY ARE THIS 
BIG.

190
00:14:09,716 --> 00:14:13,418
>> ABSOLUTELY. 
IT IS STAGNANT AND THE POINT

191
00:14:13,420 --> 00:14:18,890
THAT YOU BRING UP BILL IS A 
GREAT ONE AND THAT IS THE

192
00:14:18,892 --> 00:14:22,694
REPUBLICANS ARE IN LEADERSHIP 
AND THEY DON'T REPRESENT THE

193
00:14:22,696 --> 00:14:25,330
MICHIGAN PUBLIC. 
AND ALSO I HAVE REPUBLICANS

194
00:14:25,332 --> 00:14:30,668
SAYING TO ME I WISH YOU WOULD 
NOT JUST TALK ABOUT WHY THAT WE

195
00:14:30,670 --> 00:14:34,405
SHOULD BE END IN THIS BASED ON 
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE WE

196
00:14:34,407 --> 00:14:36,674
CARE ABOUT THE SOCIAL JUSTICE 
ASPECT.

197
00:14:36,676 --> 00:14:39,978
EVERYBODY THAT I TALK TO KNOWS 
SOMEBODY WHO'S GAY AND ALL

198
00:14:39,980 --> 00:14:43,014
REPUBLICANS WANT TO TELL ME 
ABOUT WHO THEY KNOW.

199
00:14:43,016 --> 00:14:45,750
>> SO WHEN WILL YOU GET SOME 
ACTION?

200
00:14:45,752 --> 00:14:48,219
>> I REALLY THINK THERE IS A 
POSSIBILITY THAT WE'LL SEE

201
00:14:48,221 --> 00:14:52,724
MOVEMENT IN THIS LEGISLATIVE 
SESSION OR NEXT BUT --

202
00:14:52,726 --> 00:14:56,494
>> IN THE FALL? 
>> WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE

203
00:14:56,496 --> 00:14:59,330
GOVERNOR'S COMMENTS WHEN HE WAS 
GIVEN A CHANCE TO EMBRACE THIS

204
00:14:59,332 --> 00:15:03,501
AND WHAT DID HE DO? 
>> I THOUGHT THE GOVERNOR'S

205
00:15:03,503 --> 00:15:06,237
COMMUNICATION PERSON COULD HAVE 
DONE A BETTER JOB IN GIVING HIM

206
00:15:06,239 --> 00:15:11,042
A RESPONSE TO USE. 
WHILE I KNOW HE HAD BEEN TRYING

207
00:15:11,044 --> 00:15:15,313
TO SAY WHAT HE SAID WAS THAT 
CIVIL RIGHTS AND OR BASIC RIGHTS

208
00:15:15,315 --> 00:15:18,950
AND EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE 
LAW WAS NOT ON HIS AGENDA.

209
00:15:18,952 --> 00:15:23,187
AND AT THIS POINT IT'S VERY MUCH 
TIED TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

210
00:15:23,189 --> 00:15:27,592
WHICH HE CONSIDERS TO BE A MAJOR 
PRIORITY IN HIS POLICY PLATFORM.

211
00:15:27,594 --> 00:15:30,828
>> BUT HE DID NOT SAY THAT. 
HE SAID --

212
00:15:30,830 --> 00:15:34,732
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ] 
>> IT'S NOT A NECESSARILY BAD

213
00:15:34,734 --> 00:15:36,634
THING -- 
[ LAUGHTER ]

214
00:15:36,636 --> 00:15:39,103
WHY EXACTLY. 
HE SAID THAT HE HAD OTHER

215
00:15:39,105 --> 00:15:43,207
IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO. 
>> HE SAID WE CAN ONLY DO SO

216
00:15:43,209 --> 00:15:45,576
MUCH. 
>> AND THERE WERE OTHER

217
00:15:45,578 --> 00:15:48,179
IMPORTANT THINGS. 
>> SO YOUR POINT IS THAT THIS

218
00:15:48,181 --> 00:15:51,282
TAKES A BACK SEAT? 
>> RIGHT NOW TO SOME PEOPLE IT

219
00:15:51,284 --> 00:15:55,920
DOES BUT TO MOST PEOPLE REGARD 
REST OF WHAT SIDE OF THE AISLE

220
00:15:55,922 --> 00:15:59,824
THEY ARE ON THEY ARE SEEING A 
REAL BENEFIT TO GIVING LGBT

221
00:15:59,826 --> 00:16:06,097
RIGHTS A REAL SEAT AT THE TABLE 
AND CONSIDERING HOW THAT MIGHT

222
00:16:06,099 --> 00:16:09,534
BE BENEFICIAL TO THEM AND TO 
MICHIGAN AS A WHOLE.

223
00:16:09,536 --> 00:16:14,639
>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ECONOMIC 
DEVELOPMENT WITH LGBT HOW MUCH

224
00:16:14,641 --> 00:16:18,343
MORE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN A 
PERFECT WORLD WITH FULL RIGHTS

225
00:16:18,345 --> 00:16:21,980
WOULD THERE BE IN MICHIGAN? 
WHAT PERCENTAGE INCREASE COULD

226
00:16:21,982 --> 00:16:25,283
WE SEE IN MICHIGAN IN ECONOMIC 
DEVELOPMENT?

227
00:16:25,285 --> 00:16:33,091
>> RIGHT NOW OUR CORPORATIONS 
ARE SIGNING ON TO -- SAY THAT IT

228
00:16:33,093 --> 00:16:39,063
IS AT VERY LEAST A WAIT FOR THEM 
--

229
00:16:39,065 --> 00:16:41,599
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ] 
>> WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE

230
00:16:41,601 --> 00:16:47,305
POPULATION IS LGBT? 
>> 3% TO 11%.

231
00:16:47,307 --> 00:16:52,643
>> SO THIS THINK THAT WOULD BE 
ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF ECONOMIC

232
00:16:52,645 --> 00:16:54,012
GROWTH. 
>> THAT IS MASS IS REALLY

233
00:16:54,014 --> 00:16:56,481
INTERESTING. 
-- THAT IS WHAT IS REALLY

234
00:16:56,483 --> 00:16:59,684
INTERESTING ABOUT THIS. 
WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT JUST

235
00:16:59,686 --> 00:17:10,595
GIVING LGBT COMMUNITY JOBS. 
-- RICHARD FLORIDA -- HE --

236
00:17:10,597 --> 00:17:19,237
>> HE WROTE THE RISE -- 
>> THOSE WHO GO INTO THESE

237
00:17:19,239 --> 00:17:25,109
FIELDS USUALLY NOT LGBT ARE 
ATTRACTED TO THE SAME DIVERSE

238
00:17:25,111 --> 00:17:44,095
OPEN ACCEPTING PROTECTIVE OF 
MINORITIES COMMUNITIES THAT THE

239
00:17:44,097 --> 00:18:10,521
STRICT CRITERIA. 
>> WHY 2016.

240
00:18:10,523 --> 00:18:15,827
AND NOT 2014. 
>> 2014 WOULD BE WONDERFUL IN AN

241
00:18:15,829 --> 00:18:22,100
IDEAL WORLD AND WHEN WE WIN IT 
NEEDS TO BE A SUSTAINABLE CHANGE

242
00:18:22,102 --> 00:18:24,368
AND THE RESULT OF A CLIMATE 
SHIFT IN MICHIGAN.

243
00:18:24,370 --> 00:18:29,373
MICHIGAN CITIZENS TO BE EDUCATED 
-- WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET TO

244
00:18:29,375 --> 00:18:31,609
THE BALLOT. 
I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT

245
00:18:31,611 --> 00:18:36,314
IT'S SOMETHING THAT NOBODY WOULD 
WANT TO REVERSE.

246
00:18:36,316 --> 00:18:39,684
>> WELL YOU HAVE TO AMEND THE 
CONSTITUTION.

247
00:18:39,686 --> 00:18:42,854
AREN'T YOU TALKING ABOUT A 
CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT AT THIS

248
00:18:42,856 --> 00:18:45,256
POINT? 
>> AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET

249
00:18:45,258 --> 00:18:51,329
THIS ON THE BALLOT -- 
>> IT WILL NEVER COME --

250
00:18:51,331 --> 00:18:54,132
>> I DON'T SEE THIS CURRENT 
LEGISLATIVE BODY PASSING THE

251
00:18:54,134 --> 00:18:57,635
MARRIAGE BILLS THROUGH. 
TO PUT IT ON THE BALLOT.

252
00:18:57,637 --> 00:19:01,005
>> YOU WOULD NOT SEE A 
TWO-THIRDS SUPER MAJORITY?

253
00:19:01,007 --> 00:19:03,741
>> NO. 
>> MARRIAGE IS NOT A PRIORITY

254
00:19:03,743 --> 00:19:07,345
FOR REPUBLICANS. 
>> IS IT A PROCESS OF EDUCATING

255
00:19:07,347 --> 00:19:11,616
THE PUBLIC BETWEEN NOW AND 2016 
OR BECAUSE IT'S A PRESIDENTIAL

256
00:19:11,618 --> 00:19:15,119
ELECTION YEAR AND MORE PEOPLE 
WOULD TURN OUT ANY WAY WHO WOULD

257
00:19:15,121 --> 00:19:18,589
BE MORE LIKELY TO SUPPORT WHAT 
YOU WANT.

258
00:19:18,591 --> 00:19:23,261
>> NOW YOU'RE THINKING LIKE THE 
POLITICAL STRATEGIST THAT I

259
00:19:23,263 --> 00:19:26,230
KNOW. 
AND OF COURSE -- I'M THINKING OF

260
00:19:26,232 --> 00:19:30,935
COMING AT THIS FROM ALL SIDES SO 
THAT MEANS I'M NOT COMING IT'S

261
00:19:30,937 --> 00:19:33,771
FROM SOME BALLOT MEASURE. 
BUT YES.

262
00:19:33,773 --> 00:19:37,275
I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE 
GOING TO THE POLLS AT THE TIME

263
00:19:37,277 --> 00:19:42,914
THAT VOTERS ARE ENGAGED. 
>> AND HE WOULD TELL YOU THAT

264
00:19:42,916 --> 00:19:49,253
THOSE POLLS ARE DISTORTED ON THE 
CHANGE THAT HAS ALLEGEDLY

265
00:19:49,255 --> 00:19:51,022
HAPPENED. 
>> I WOULD SAY MOST OF HIS

266
00:19:51,024 --> 00:19:55,860
VIEWERS DISTORTED. 
I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE GETS HIS

267
00:19:55,862 --> 00:19:57,862
RESEARCH. 
IT'S NOT SUPPORTED BY ANYTHING

268
00:19:57,864 --> 00:20:04,335
THAT WE SEE THESE DAYS AND THEY 
ARE OFTEN REALLY IRRATIONAL

269
00:20:04,337 --> 00:20:07,638
CLAIMS THAT PREY ON THE 
IRRATIONAL FEARS OF THE PUBLIC

270
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,908
AND THOSE FEARS THAT TEND TO 
COME FROM LACK OF INFORMATION

271
00:20:10,910 --> 00:20:15,046
NOT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AND 
RESEARCH AND THAT IS

272
00:20:15,048 --> 00:20:16,180
UNFORTUNATE. 
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]

273
00:20:16,182 --> 00:20:20,451
>> CAN YOU TALK ABOUT EMILY -- 
ARE YOU TELLING FOLKS WHO WANT A

274
00:20:20,453 --> 00:20:26,424
2014 ELECTION THAT TO HOLD BACK 
WAIT UNTIL '16 BECAUSE YOU'RE

275
00:20:26,426 --> 00:20:29,627
PROBABLY GETTING PRESSURE TO 
MOVE ON THIS NEXT YEAR.

276
00:20:29,629 --> 00:20:32,663
>> THERE IS INTERCOMMING FROM 
JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY AND I AM AT

277
00:20:32,665 --> 00:20:40,137
LEAST SAYING I'M OPEN TO 
2014-2016 IF SOMEBODY CAN

278
00:20:40,139 --> 00:20:46,844
PRESENT A PLAN THAT IS BETTER. 
I WANT IT TO BE A REALLY SMART

279
00:20:46,846 --> 00:20:49,513
STRATEGIC EFFORT THAT COVERS ALL 
OF THE BASICS.

280
00:20:49,515 --> 00:20:51,249
I'M OPEN TO HAVING THE 
DISCUSSION.

281
00:20:51,251 --> 00:20:55,353
WHEN WE GO TO THE BALLOT WE'RE 
ALL ON THE SAME PAGE AND DO IT

282
00:20:55,355 --> 00:20:58,422
IN THE SAME COHESIVE WAY AND 
SMOOTH.

283
00:20:58,424 --> 00:21:03,628
I WANT ALL OF THE MOVING PARTS. 
>> THE POLLING DATA SUGGESTS

284
00:21:03,630 --> 00:21:08,099
THAT YOU'RE ALREADY THERE. 
>> SO,.

285
00:21:08,101 --> 00:21:10,668
>> MAYBE THE POLLS ARE WRONG. 
>> NO.

286
00:21:10,670 --> 00:21:13,337
WE DON'T BELIEVE THE POLLS ARE 
WRONG AND YET I THINK THAT ONE

287
00:21:13,339 --> 00:21:17,642
THING THAT WE DO KNOW WORKING 
IN POLITICS IS POLLING NUMBERS

288
00:21:17,644 --> 00:21:20,478
DON'T NECESSARILY TRANSLATE INTO 
VOTES.

289
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,915
>> YOU WANT TO BE ABOUT 60%. 
>> I WOULD LOVE TO BE AT 60% AND

290
00:21:24,917 --> 00:21:27,151
WE'RE SEEING THERE IS CONSISTENT 
INCREASE.

291
00:21:27,153 --> 00:21:31,722
WE'RE NOT GOING BACKWARDS AND 
I'D LIKE TO SEE CONSISTENT

292
00:21:31,724 --> 00:21:35,226
MAJORITY SUPPORT OVER THE COURSE 
OF A FEW POLLS.

293
00:21:35,228 --> 00:21:38,963
>> IT'S POSSIBLE IT COULD GO 
BACKWARDS.

294
00:21:38,965 --> 00:21:43,334
POLITICAL WINDS SHIFT. 
WE COULD HAVE STATES REVOKING

295
00:21:43,336 --> 00:21:46,337
THEIR MARRIAGE LAWS. 
>>  I'LL DON'T SEE THE PUBLIC

296
00:21:46,339 --> 00:21:49,674
SUPPORT IS GOING TO GO BACKWARDS 
AND THE POLLS THAT WE'VE SEEN

297
00:21:49,676 --> 00:21:53,878
THEY ARE NOT THE FIRST MAJORITY 
SUPPORT FOR MARRIAGE EQUALITY

298
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:58,182
THAT WE'VE SEEN IN MICHIGAN BUT 
THEY ARE THE THIRD OR FOURTH

299
00:21:58,184 --> 00:22:02,420
WITHIN THE LAST SIX MONTHS. 
>> WHAT IS THE POSITION ON THE

300
00:22:02,422 --> 00:22:04,822
PRIVACY ISSUES LIKE WE WERE 
DISCUSSING IN THE FIRST PART OF

301
00:22:04,824 --> 00:22:08,659
THE PROGRAM? 
VERSUS PERSONAL -- SECURITY BY

302
00:22:08,661 --> 00:22:12,930
THE GOVERNMENT. 
DOES THE LGBT COMMUNITY HAVE ANY

303
00:22:12,932 --> 00:22:18,536
POSITIONS ON ANY OF THOSE ISSUES 
-- INTRUSION BY THE GOVERNMENT.

304
00:22:18,538 --> 00:22:24,408
WHETHER IT'S DNA SWABS. 
WHETHER IT'S SECURITY LEAKS OF

305
00:22:24,410 --> 00:22:26,010
CLASSIFIED INFORMATION AT THE 
FEDERAL LEVEL.

306
00:22:26,012 --> 00:22:32,750
DO YOU CARE ABOUT THAT? 
>> HONESTLY THE LGBT COMMUNITY

307
00:22:32,752 --> 00:22:39,357
IS A DEMOGRAPHIC WITHIN A 
DEMOGRAPHIC.

308
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:44,228
WE ALSO ARE WORKERS AND WE'RE 
ALSO CITIZENS THAT NEED TO WALK

309
00:22:44,230 --> 00:22:47,932
DOWN THE STREET -- 
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]

310
00:22:47,934 --> 00:22:50,801
>> NOT ALL OVER THE MAP. 
WE JUST HAVE THE SAME CONCERNS

311
00:22:50,803 --> 00:22:53,037
THAT ANY OTHER CITIZENS IN THE 
COUNTRY HAVE.

312
00:22:53,039 --> 00:22:56,941
>> HOW DO YOU TAKE ON THE 
CATHOLIC CHURCH ON THIS ISSUE?

313
00:22:56,943 --> 00:23:02,146
>> THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WHAT 
WE'RE FINDING FROM A RECENT POLL

314
00:23:02,148 --> 00:23:09,153
IS 59% OF CATHOLICNESS MICHIGAN 
ARE IN FAVOR OF EQUALITY.

315
00:23:09,155 --> 00:23:12,423
>> DOES THAT MEAN MARRIAGE 
RIGHTS?

316
00:23:12,425 --> 00:23:16,227
>> MARRIAGE. 
GAY MARRIAGE.

317
00:23:16,229 --> 00:23:23,634
>> 60% OF CATHOLICS AND 60% OF 
LUTHERANS AND.

318
00:23:23,636 --> 00:23:31,142
>> LAST WEEK JASE BOLGER SAID HE 
WAS OPEN BUT HE SAID THE

319
00:23:31,144 --> 00:23:39,250
DISCUSSION TOO OFTEN HAS BEEN 
DEHUMANIZING OF LGBT PEOPLE AND

320
00:23:39,252 --> 00:23:45,222
DEMONIZING OF RELIGIOUS PEOPLE 
WHO SEE A MORALE PROBLEM THERE.

321
00:23:45,224 --> 00:23:49,794
IS THE LBGT RIGHTS MOVEMENT 
GUILTY OF THAT.

322
00:23:49,796 --> 00:23:56,167
>> THAT IS A STEREOTYPE AND IT 
IS NOT TRUE.

323
00:23:56,169 --> 00:24:00,070
WE'RE NOT LACKING FAITH. 
WE'RE LACKING CHURCHES THAT

324
00:24:00,072 --> 00:24:03,474
ACCEPT US. 
WE HAVE A GREAT NUMBER OF LGBT

325
00:24:03,476 --> 00:24:08,546
COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHO ARE VERY 
RELIGIOUS AND HAVE HAD TO

326
00:24:08,548 --> 00:24:12,450
PRACTICE ON THEIR OWN AND I'M 
NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT MORE

327
00:24:12,452 --> 00:24:20,057
LIBERAL DENOMINATIONS. 
WE HAVE LGBT CATHOLIC.

328
00:24:20,059 --> 00:24:23,794
>> THE PROBLEM IS THE HIERARCHY 
OF THE CHURCH.

329
00:24:23,796 --> 00:24:25,763
>> YES. 
AND WHEN YOU MENTION THE

330
00:24:25,765 --> 00:24:28,999
CATHOLIC CHURCH IMMEDIATELY WHAT 
I THINK OF IS THE PROBLEM IN

331
00:24:29,001 --> 00:24:31,268
MICHIGAN WITH THE POLITICAL 
LEADERSHIP.

332
00:24:31,270 --> 00:24:35,739
IT IS NOT THAT THE CATHOLIC 
MEMBERSHIP IS ANTI.

333
00:24:35,741 --> 00:24:39,643
IT'S THE CATHOLIC LEADERSHIP IS 
DIGGING IN THEIR HEELS AND

334
00:24:39,645 --> 00:24:43,481
REFUSING TO MOVE ON THEIR 
POSITION IN ORDER TO ADDRESS THE

335
00:24:43,483 --> 00:24:48,285
NEEDS AND -- 
>> AND THEY WILL SPEND A BOAT

336
00:24:48,287 --> 00:24:51,889
LOAD OF MONEY TO FIGHT YOU. 
>> ABSOLUTELY.

337
00:24:51,891 --> 00:24:54,792
>> YOU ASSUME THAT. 
>> WE HAVE TO.

338
00:24:54,794 --> 00:24:59,363
>> HOW MUCH DO YOU HAVE TO COME 
UP WITH?

339
00:24:59,365 --> 00:25:03,367
>> $12 MILLION. 
IF YOU'VE GOT THAT ON YOU I'LL

340
00:25:03,369 --> 00:25:05,469
TAKE IT FROM YOU. 
>> HOW MUCH OF THAT WILL BE OUT

341
00:25:05,471 --> 00:25:10,307
OF STATE MONEY? 
>> I HOPE MOST OF THIS WILL COME

342
00:25:10,309 --> 00:25:14,245
FROM WITHIN MICHIGAN. 
>> ANOTHER SIDE IS GOING TO SAY

343
00:25:14,247 --> 00:25:17,214
THOSE OUTSIDE GROUPS ARE COMING 
IN --

344
00:25:17,216 --> 00:25:20,351
>> AND YOU KNOW WHAT IS SO FUNNY 
ABOUT THAT IS ANY TIME WE TRY TO

345
00:25:20,353 --> 00:25:24,088
PASS A HUMAN RIGHTS ORDINANCE WE 
ARE COMMITTED TO LETTING THE

346
00:25:24,090 --> 00:25:30,394
COMMUNITY LEAD. 
WE'RE MID TO LETTING THE

347
00:25:30,396 --> 00:25:33,597
MUNICIPALITY DECIDE. 
>> YOU WOULD TAKE OUT OF STATE

348
00:25:33,599 --> 00:25:35,065
MONEY? 
>> ABSOLUTELY.

349
00:25:35,067 --> 00:25:38,536
WE'LL TAKE SOME HELP BUT WE 
DON'T WANT TO MAKE IT AN EFFORT

350
00:25:38,538 --> 00:25:42,973
OF A NATIONAL MOVEMENT. 
WE WANT TO MAKE IT A MICHIGAN

351
00:25:42,975 --> 00:25:47,578
MOVEMENT. 
WHERE NATIONAL IAN TEE LGBT

352
00:25:47,580 --> 00:25:50,681
ORGANIZATIONS WILL POUR IN MONEY 
TO STOP MUNICIPAL PROGRESS.

353
00:25:50,683 --> 00:25:53,384
>> WE'RE OUT OF TIME. 
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON THE

354
00:25:53,386 --> 00:25:59,657
PROGRAM. 
DON'T FORGET WE'RE AT WKAR.ORG.

355
00:25:59,659 --> 00:26:14,638
WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK RIGHT 
HERE ON "OFF THE RECORD."

356
04:46:55,233 --> 04:46:59,233
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