>> WELCOME BACK.
"OFF THE RECORD" STARTS RIGHT

NOW.
ON THE PANEL WE HAVE KYLE MELINN

AND BILL BALLENGER ALONG WITH
RICK PLUTA.

A DNA BILL IS MOVING.
STEW PACK URGED TO RUN FOR

GOVERNOR AND LATER ON EMILY FROM
EQUALITY MICHIGAN WILL BE HERE

TO DISCUSS THAT AND MORE COMING
UP ON "OFF THE RECORD."

GETTING THE INSIDE OUT.
IT'S "OFF THE RECORD" WITH

SENIOR CAPITAL CORRESPONDENT TIM
SKUBICK AND HIS CAPITAL PRESS

CORE COLLEAGUES.

AND NOW THIS EDITION OF "OFF THE
RECORD" WITH TIM SKUBICK.

>> THANKS, AND WELCOME TO THIS
WEEK'S EDITION OF "OFF THE

RECORD."
WE HAD LEGISLATION THAT WILL

ALLOW THE COPS AFTER THEY'VE
ARRESTED YOU TO PUT A SWAB IN

THE MOUTH FOR SOME DNA.
>> THE U.S. SUPREME COURT HAS

DECIDED THAT THEY HAVE YOUR
FINGERPRINTS BUT THEY ARE GOING

TO COLLECT YOUR DNA SAMPLE IF
YOU'VE COMMITTED A FELONY AND

WE'VE GOT LEGISLATION IN THE
SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE THAT

WILL ALLOW THE STATE TO
PARTICIPATE.

OBVIOUSLY THIS HAS HAD THE CIVIL
RIGHTS GROUP ALL EXCITED BUT

THEY'VE PUT IN A PROVISION THAT
IF YOU'RE INNOCENT THEY WILL

THROW AWAY YOUR DNA SAMPLE.
>> GIVEN WHAT THE FEDERAL

GOVERNMENTS ALLEGEDLY DOING ON
THE NATIONAL LEVEL.

WOULD YOU TRUST THE GOVERNMENT?
>> THAT IS THE ISSUE.

>> THAT WAS A QUESTION,
MR. BALLENGER.

>> THIS IS A PIECE WITH THE
STUDY BEING -- THE TRAFFIC

LIGHTS.
PUBLIC SAFETY.

IT'S AN INTRUSION.
THE SAME IDEA OF GOVERNMENT

INTRUDERRING ON YOUR PRIVATE
SPACE WHETHER TO TAKE A SWAB

FROM YOUR CHEEK OR STUDY IF
YOU'VE RUN A RED LIGHT AT SOME

REMOTE INTERSECTION AND THERE IS
NO COP AROUND AND EVERYTHING

E CAN IN -- WEEK IN

WASHINGTON IT'S UNBELIEVABLE.
A HUGE CONFLICT BETWEEN WHAT THE

GOVERNMENT IS ABLE TO DO IN THE
NAME USUALLY OF PROTECTING

SECURITY.
>> IN THIS CASE FIGHTING CRIME

OR SOLVING COLD CASES.
>> AND INTRUDERRING ON YOUR

PRIVATE BEHAVIOR.
>> WE'LL GET TO THE CAMERAS IN

JUST A SECOND.
>> WE'RE DEBATING WHAT IT MEANS

TO BE LIVING IN THE MODERN
SURVEILLANCE SOCIETY AND HOW

MUCH GOVERNMENT CAN DO AND WHAT
WE'LL ALLOW.

THE QUESTION ON THE DNA SWABS IS
IS DNA LIKE FINGERPRINTS?

>> NO.
IT IS NOT.

>> WHY NOT?
>> BECAUSE THERE IS MORE

INFORMATION.
>> THE SAME PRINCIPLES.

>> YES.
FINGERPRINTS ARE OKAY.

DNA IS THE NEXT STEP UP AND MORE
EFFECTIVE.

>> EVEN THE ACLU IS NEUTRAL ON
THIS BILL.

THEY WOULD LIKE TO OPPOSE IT.
>> WHY?

>> THEY ARE NEUTRAL NOW --
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]

>> DOES THIS BECOME LIKE THE
SEAT BELT LAW IT'S STARTS OUT AS

A SECONDARY OFFENSE AND AS WE
GOT MORE COMFORTABLE IT BECAME A

PRIMARY --
>> IT CREEPS EVER UPWARD.

MORE AND MORE INTRUSION.
>> DNA HAS BECOME A CENTRAL PART

OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE.
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]

>> ESPECIALLY IN RAPE CASES IT'S
SO VITAL.

IT'S SO HARD TO GET COMFORTABLE
WITH THE IDEA THAT SOMETHING

THAT BELONGS -- THAT IS YOUR
VERY MAKE UP AND THAT WOULD BE

ON FILE.
>> IF THE ACLU IS NEUTRAL IT'S

GOING TO HAPPEN AND WE MIGHT AS
WELL ACCEPT IT.

[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]
>> I'M NOT SAN QUINN -- ABOUT

THE FORMER EITHER ABOUT THE DNA.
JUST REALISTICALLY IT'S GOING TO

HAPPEN.
POLITICALLY IN THE LEGISLATURE

YOU KNOW RICK JONES IS CHAIRMAN
OF THE COMMITTEE.

IF THE HOUSE PASSES THIS THING
ON THE TRAFFIC LIGHT

SURVEILLANCE IT'S GOING NOWHERE
IN MY COMMITTEE.

>> IT'S ROBO COP.
>> AND A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE

PROBLEMS WITH THAT.
HAS GOT MORE PROBLEMS.

>> WHAT IF WE SAVE LIVES BY
CATCHING SPEEDERS GOING THROUGH

RED LIGHTS.
>> PEOPLE THAT PULL UP AND USE

RED LIGHTS AS STOP SIGNS.
YOU DON'T DO THAT, TIM.

>> I DON'T EVEN DRIVE.
[ LAUGHTER ]

AND WELL, AND ALSO WHAT IS THE
APPEALS PROCESS.

RIGHT NOW 23 A COP STOPS YOU FOR
DOING THE SAME YOU GET TO GO TO

COURT AND SAY HERE IS WHY THAT
DIDN'T HAPPEN.

>> YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO FACE YOUR
ACCUSER.

SO THE COP LOOKS AT A PICTURE.
MAYBE IT'S NOT YOU.

>> IT'S VIDEO.
I GET THIS POINT -- BUT IT'S NOT

CANDID CAMERA.
THE OTHER SIDE IS THAT THE

CAMERA IS ROLLING BEFORE YOU RUN
THE RED LIGHT AND AFTER YOU RUN

THE RED LIGHT.
MAYBE YOU'RE BEING CHASED BY

SOMEBODY OR MAYBE YOUR WIFE IS
HAVING CONTRACTIONS.

>> AND YOU SIMPLY GET A TICKET
IN THE MAIL.

AND IF WE TALKED ABOUT THIS --
20 YEARS AGO.

REMEMBER GARY SCHUSTER?
I REMEMBER HIM -- HE LOVED THIS

STORY AND IT NEVER GOT ANYWHERE
BECAUSE IT WAS NOT RIGHT BUT IS

IT RIGHT NOW?
>> WE'RE GOING TO KEEP TALKING

ABOUT IT IN PART BECAUSE
GOVERNMENT IS LOOKING FOR MORE

WAYS TO BE MORE EFFICIENT AND A
LOT OF THAT MEANS LESS STUFF

USING PEOPLE.
AND THIS WOULD --

>> AND THEY ARE GREEDIER AND
THEY WANT MORE REVENUE.

BINGO.
>> THEY ARE CHASING MORE SERIOUS

OFFENSES THAN COPS HANGING OUT
AT THE INTERSECTION.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE BOTTLE BILL?
THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE ANY

DIFFERENT THIS TIME.
>> IT'S GOING TO HAVE TROUBLE

AGAIN.
>> WHAT IS WRONG TO EXPANDING

THIS.
>> I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH --

EXPANDING THIS.
>> WHAT IS THE OPPOSITION?

>> THE GROCERS ARE PART OF IT
AND THEN THE BEVERAGE

ASSOCIATION TOO CONCERNED THAT
IF YOU START EXPANDING IT TO

WATER BOTTLES AND FRUIT BOTTLES
THE GROCERY STORES ARE GOING TO

BE DELUGED WITH MORE STUFF
BROUGHT IN THAT COULD CONTAIN

GOD KNOWS WHAT.
>> AND THE PRICE TO CLEAN UP THE

ENVIRONMENT -- MORE DIFFERENT
WAYS OF TIERRA GRANDE PACKAGING

THEM.
WE HAD THE -- DEBATE OVER THE

COLLAPSIBLE PACKAGES THAT WE HAD
TO PASS A LAW TO SPECIFICALLY

SAY THEY ARE EXEMPT FROM THE
BOTTLE DEPOSIT OR THE PACKAGE

DEPOSIT.
SO THE DIG -- AS WE'RE GETTING

PUSH BACK FROM PEOPLE SAYING
MICHIGAN HAS LOW RECYCLING RATES

COMPARED TO OTHER THAT'S AND
MAYBE IT'S TIME TO TAKE A BIGGER

LOOK AT HOW WE ENCOURAGE
RECYCLING AND NOT JUST EXTENDING

THE BOTTLE DEPOSIT TO MORE
TYPES.

>> THEY ARE ALREADY OUTRAGED
ABOUT THE INFLUX OF OUT OF STATE

BEVERAGE CONTAINERS.
THEY ARE TRYING TO CRACK DOWN --

>> THE FAMOUS JERRY SEINFELD
EPISODE.

>> AND THIS WOULD PROLIFERATE
EVEN MORE.

>> POLITICALLY ISN'T THIS A GOOD
VOTE.

>> YOU WOULD THINK SO.
AND I'VE GOT TO GIVE HIM CREDIT.

AS FAR AS THIS NATIONWIDE
FEELING OF ENCOURAGING MORE

RECYCLING EVEN IN THE CITY OF
LANSING THEY ARE GOING TOWARD

THE BIG BINS NOW.
WE HAVE GOT THE GREEN THING NOW.

NOW WE'RE GOING TO --
>> KYLE AND I ARE NEIGHBORS AND

WE LOVE OUR RECYCLING PROGRAM
BECAUSE YOU PUT EVERYTHING INTO

A CONTAIN AREA.
>> AND SO IT'S JUST GETTING

EASIER AND EASIER.
RECYCLING IS GOING IN THAT

DIRECTION AND IT'S ALMOST AS IF
EXPANDING THE BOTTLE BILL IS

YESTERDAY'S IDEA.
>> WE TALKED LAST WEEK AND WHAT

IS THE DATE TODAY?
THE 13th OF JUNE.

A WEEK IN ADVANTAGES.
BUT WE TALKED ABOUT THIS TEA

PARTY LETTER.
I'M ANXIOUS TO GET YOUR RESPONSE

TO THE IMPACT ON THE GOVERNOR'S
RACE.

IS IT A WASH?
>> A WASH?

>> ANY IMPACT AT ALL?
FOR SNYDER'S RE-ELECTION.

THE ANSWER IS NO.
>> KEN THEN WHY ARE YOU ASKING?

[ LAUGHTER ]
>> JUST SAY THIS.

WHO IS THE CANDIDATE?
>> IT DOESN'T MATTER.

>> I TEND TO AGREE.
IT IS NOT GOING TO MATTER IN THE

PRIMARY BUT IF THEY SIT DOWN --
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]

SIMPLY BECAUSE REPUBLICANS DON'T
TURN OUT.

I DON'T THINK THAT IS GOING ON
HAPPEN.

>> A CLOSE RACE IT COULD MAKE A
DIFFERENCE.

IF WE'RE TALKING 1% OR 2% BUT
HOW MANY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

A FEW HUNDRED?
A THOUSAND.

IN A GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION THE
WINNING CANDIDATE WILL PROBABLY

HAVE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF
VOTES OVER THE OTHER PERSON SO A

FEW THOUSAND MAY NOT MAKE A
DIFFERENCE.

>> IT'S NOT JUST SNYDER.
BUT THE LEGISLATORS.

THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT
PRIMARIES.

THAT WOULD BE A REAL DANGER AND
THEY ARE VOTING ON THE BILL.

>> PRECISELY SO IT'S AN OPEN
LETTER TO THE GOVERNOR FIRST AND

THEN A FOLLOW-UP LETTER.
>> BY IMPLICATION.

THE LEGISLATORS REALIZE THEY ARE
TALKING TO US TOO.

>> I THINK RICK MADE THE POINT
LAST WEEK THAT WE'LL FIND OUT IF

THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT IS A
99-POUND WEAKLING OR THE CHARLES

ATLAS.
YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THAT.

>> IT WILL BE A TEST BUT THERE
WILL BE MANY TESTS, TIM J. NOT

AT LEGISLATIVE LEVEL.
>> WAS 2010 THE HIGH WATER MARK

OF THE TEA PARTY OR IS THE TEA
PARTY NOW A LESS SIGNIFICANT

PART OF A LARGER COALITION.
>> AND WE'RE ABOUT TO FIND OUT.

LET'S DISCUSS THE ISSUE OF GAY
RIGHTS WITH OUR NEXT GUEST,

PLEASE.
EMILY.

>> EMILY DIEVENDORF.
SHE WORKED FOR TWO DEMOCRATIC

HOUSE MEMBERS.
SHE IS A GRADUATE FOR THE JAMES

MADISON COLLEGE OF MSU.
>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM AND

RICK HAS THE FIRST QUESTION.
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT AMENDING THE

CIVIL RIGHTS LAW THAT WE KNOW
THAT THERE ARE DISCUSSIONS

UNDERWAY NOT JUST WITH DEMOCRATS
BUT WITH REPUBLICANS TO TRY AND

TO SOMETHING TO AMEND THE LAW TO
INCLUDE LBGT RIGHTS AND

PROTECTIONS WITHIN IT.
WHAT IS THE CASE THAT YOU MAKE

TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT IT
A TIME TO GET ON BOARD.

>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING
QUESTION BECAUSE WE THOUGHT

THREE YEARS AGO THAT THE CASE
WOULD BE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

AND THE CASE FOR ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT FOR CIVIL RIGHTSES

THERE.
AND THE MICHIGAN COMMISSION JUST

RECENTLY SUPPORTED THAT BY PUB
ISSUING THE REPORT SAYING THE

DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THE LGBT
COMMUNITY HAS AN IN DISPUTABLE

IMPACT --
>> AND THE CIVIL RIGHTS

COMMISSION IS BEING RUN BY
APPOINTEES OF THE LAST

ADMINISTRATION.
>> TWO ARE APPOINTEES -- SO MOST

OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION
ARE SNYDER.

>> IS IT NOT WORKING?
>> NO.

IT IS WORKING BUT WHEN I'M TALK
TO REPUBLICANS THEY ARE SAYING

THAT IS NOT ALL THEY CARE ABOUT.
>> WHAT DO THEY CARE ABOUT?

>> AT THIS POINT I WOULD SAY
ABOUT FOUR DIFFERENT THINGS.

ONE, WE DO HAVE THE ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT ARGUMENT.

WE WANT TO ATTRACT AND RETAIN
THE BEST AND THE BRIGHTEST.

AND TWO, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS
ABOUT THIS BIG.

IT'S NOT GROWING.
IT'S TARGET DEMOGRAPHICS ARE

EITHER NOT ACTIVE OR AGING.
>> THIS BIG IN THE LGBT

COMMUNITY OR OVER-ALL.
EVEN THOUGH THEY CONTROL ALL OF

STATE GOVERNMENT THEY ARE THIS
BIG.

>> ABSOLUTELY.
IT IS STAGNANT AND THE POINT

THAT YOU BRING UP BILL IS A
GREAT ONE AND THAT IS THE

REPUBLICANS ARE IN LEADERSHIP
AND THEY DON'T REPRESENT THE

MICHIGAN PUBLIC.
AND ALSO I HAVE REPUBLICANS

SAYING TO ME I WISH YOU WOULD
NOT JUST TALK ABOUT WHY THAT WE

SHOULD BE END IN THIS BASED ON
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE WE

CARE ABOUT THE SOCIAL JUSTICE
ASPECT.

EVERYBODY THAT I TALK TO KNOWS
SOMEBODY WHO'S GAY AND ALL

REPUBLICANS WANT TO TELL ME
ABOUT WHO THEY KNOW.

>> SO WHEN WILL YOU GET SOME
ACTION?

>> I REALLY THINK THERE IS A
POSSIBILITY THAT WE'LL SEE

MOVEMENT IN THIS LEGISLATIVE
SESSION OR NEXT BUT --

>> IN THE FALL?
>> WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE

GOVERNOR'S COMMENTS WHEN HE WAS
GIVEN A CHANCE TO EMBRACE THIS

AND WHAT DID HE DO?
>> I THOUGHT THE GOVERNOR'S

COMMUNICATION PERSON COULD HAVE
DONE A BETTER JOB IN GIVING HIM

A RESPONSE TO USE.
WHILE I KNOW HE HAD BEEN TRYING

TO SAY WHAT HE SAID WAS THAT
CIVIL RIGHTS AND OR BASIC RIGHTS

AND EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE
LAW WAS NOT ON HIS AGENDA.

AND AT THIS POINT IT'S VERY MUCH
TIED TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

WHICH HE CONSIDERS TO BE A MAJOR
PRIORITY IN HIS POLICY PLATFORM.

>> BUT HE DID NOT SAY THAT.
HE SAID --

[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]
>> IT'S NOT A NECESSARILY BAD

THING --
[ LAUGHTER ]

WHY EXACTLY.
HE SAID THAT HE HAD OTHER

IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO.
>> HE SAID WE CAN ONLY DO SO

MUCH.
>> AND THERE WERE OTHER

IMPORTANT THINGS.
>> SO YOUR POINT IS THAT THIS

TAKES A BACK SEAT?
>> RIGHT NOW TO SOME PEOPLE IT

DOES BUT TO MOST PEOPLE REGARD
REST OF WHAT SIDE OF THE AISLE

THEY ARE ON THEY ARE SEEING A
REAL BENEFIT TO GIVING LGBT

RIGHTS A REAL SEAT AT THE TABLE
AND CONSIDERING HOW THAT MIGHT

BE BENEFICIAL TO THEM AND TO
MICHIGAN AS A WHOLE.

>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT WITH LGBT HOW MUCH

MORE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN A
PERFECT WORLD WITH FULL RIGHTS

WOULD THERE BE IN MICHIGAN?
WHAT PERCENTAGE INCREASE COULD

WE SEE IN MICHIGAN IN ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT?

>> RIGHT NOW OUR CORPORATIONS
ARE SIGNING ON TO -- SAY THAT IT

IS AT VERY LEAST A WAIT FOR THEM
--

[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]
>> WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE

POPULATION IS LGBT?
>> 3% TO 11%.

>> SO THIS THINK THAT WOULD BE
ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF ECONOMIC

GROWTH.
>> THAT IS MASS IS REALLY

INTERESTING.
-- THAT IS WHAT IS REALLY

INTERESTING ABOUT THIS.
WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT JUST

GIVING LGBT COMMUNITY JOBS.
-- RICHARD FLORIDA -- HE --

>> HE WROTE THE RISE --
>> THOSE WHO GO INTO THESE

FIELDS USUALLY NOT LGBT ARE
ATTRACTED TO THE SAME DIVERSE

OPEN ACCEPTING PROTECTIVE OF
MINORITIES COMMUNITIES THAT THE

STRICT CRITERIA.
>> WHY 2016.

AND NOT 2014.
>> 2014 WOULD BE WONDERFUL IN AN

IDEAL WORLD AND WHEN WE WIN IT
NEEDS TO BE A SUSTAINABLE CHANGE

AND THE RESULT OF A CLIMATE
SHIFT IN MICHIGAN.

MICHIGAN CITIZENS TO BE EDUCATED
-- WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET TO

THE BALLOT.
I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT

IT'S SOMETHING THAT NOBODY WOULD
WANT TO REVERSE.

>> WELL YOU HAVE TO AMEND THE
CONSTITUTION.

AREN'T YOU TALKING ABOUT A
CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT AT THIS

POINT?
>> AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET

THIS ON THE BALLOT --
>> IT WILL NEVER COME --

>> I DON'T SEE THIS CURRENT
LEGISLATIVE BODY PASSING THE

MARRIAGE BILLS THROUGH.
TO PUT IT ON THE BALLOT.

>> YOU WOULD NOT SEE A
TWO-THIRDS SUPER MAJORITY?

>> NO.
>> MARRIAGE IS NOT A PRIORITY

FOR REPUBLICANS.
>> IS IT A PROCESS OF EDUCATING

THE PUBLIC BETWEEN NOW AND 2016
OR BECAUSE IT'S A PRESIDENTIAL

ELECTION YEAR AND MORE PEOPLE
WOULD TURN OUT ANY WAY WHO WOULD

BE MORE LIKELY TO SUPPORT WHAT
YOU WANT.

>> NOW YOU'RE THINKING LIKE THE
POLITICAL STRATEGIST THAT I

KNOW.
AND OF COURSE -- I'M THINKING OF

COMING AT THIS FROM ALL SIDES SO
THAT MEANS I'M NOT COMING IT'S

FROM SOME BALLOT MEASURE.
BUT YES.

I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE
GOING TO THE POLLS AT THE TIME

THAT VOTERS ARE ENGAGED.
>> AND HE WOULD TELL YOU THAT

THOSE POLLS ARE DISTORTED ON THE
CHANGE THAT HAS ALLEGEDLY

HAPPENED.
>> I WOULD SAY MOST OF HIS

VIEWERS DISTORTED.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE GETS HIS

RESEARCH.
IT'S NOT SUPPORTED BY ANYTHING

THAT WE SEE THESE DAYS AND THEY
ARE OFTEN REALLY IRRATIONAL

CLAIMS THAT PREY ON THE
IRRATIONAL FEARS OF THE PUBLIC

AND THOSE FEARS THAT TEND TO
COME FROM LACK OF INFORMATION

NOT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AND
RESEARCH AND THAT IS

UNFORTUNATE.
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]

>> CAN YOU TALK ABOUT EMILY --
ARE YOU TELLING FOLKS WHO WANT A

2014 ELECTION THAT TO HOLD BACK
WAIT UNTIL '16 BECAUSE YOU'RE

PROBABLY GETTING PRESSURE TO
MOVE ON THIS NEXT YEAR.

>> THERE IS INTERCOMMING FROM
JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY AND I AM AT

LEAST SAYING I'M OPEN TO
2014-2016 IF SOMEBODY CAN

PRESENT A PLAN THAT IS BETTER.
I WANT IT TO BE A REALLY SMART

STRATEGIC EFFORT THAT COVERS ALL
OF THE BASICS.

I'M OPEN TO HAVING THE
DISCUSSION.

WHEN WE GO TO THE BALLOT WE'RE
ALL ON THE SAME PAGE AND DO IT

IN THE SAME COHESIVE WAY AND
SMOOTH.

I WANT ALL OF THE MOVING PARTS.
>> THE POLLING DATA SUGGESTS

THAT YOU'RE ALREADY THERE.
>> SO,.

>> MAYBE THE POLLS ARE WRONG.
>> NO.

WE DON'T BELIEVE THE POLLS ARE
WRONG AND YET I THINK THAT ONE

THING THAT WE DO KNOW WORKING
IN POLITICS IS POLLING NUMBERS

DON'T NECESSARILY TRANSLATE INTO
VOTES.

>> YOU WANT TO BE ABOUT 60%.
>> I WOULD LOVE TO BE AT 60% AND

WE'RE SEEING THERE IS CONSISTENT
INCREASE.

WE'RE NOT GOING BACKWARDS AND
I'D LIKE TO SEE CONSISTENT

MAJORITY SUPPORT OVER THE COURSE
OF A FEW POLLS.

>> IT'S POSSIBLE IT COULD GO
BACKWARDS.

POLITICAL WINDS SHIFT.
WE COULD HAVE STATES REVOKING

THEIR MARRIAGE LAWS.
>> I'LL DON'T SEE THE PUBLIC

SUPPORT IS GOING TO GO BACKWARDS
AND THE POLLS THAT WE'VE SEEN

THEY ARE NOT THE FIRST MAJORITY
SUPPORT FOR MARRIAGE EQUALITY

THAT WE'VE SEEN IN MICHIGAN BUT
THEY ARE THE THIRD OR FOURTH

WITHIN THE LAST SIX MONTHS.
>> WHAT IS THE POSITION ON THE

PRIVACY ISSUES LIKE WE WERE
DISCUSSING IN THE FIRST PART OF

THE PROGRAM?
VERSUS PERSONAL -- SECURITY BY

THE GOVERNMENT.
DOES THE LGBT COMMUNITY HAVE ANY

POSITIONS ON ANY OF THOSE ISSUES
-- INTRUSION BY THE GOVERNMENT.

WHETHER IT'S DNA SWABS.
WHETHER IT'S SECURITY LEAKS OF

CLASSIFIED INFORMATION AT THE
FEDERAL LEVEL.

DO YOU CARE ABOUT THAT?
>> HONESTLY THE LGBT COMMUNITY

IS A DEMOGRAPHIC WITHIN A
DEMOGRAPHIC.

WE ALSO ARE WORKERS AND WE'RE
ALSO CITIZENS THAT NEED TO WALK

DOWN THE STREET --
[ OVERLAPPING SPEAKERS ]

>> NOT ALL OVER THE MAP.
WE JUST HAVE THE SAME CONCERNS

THAT ANY OTHER CITIZENS IN THE
COUNTRY HAVE.

>> HOW DO YOU TAKE ON THE
CATHOLIC CHURCH ON THIS ISSUE?

>> THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WHAT
WE'RE FINDING FROM A RECENT POLL

IS 59% OF CATHOLICNESS MICHIGAN
ARE IN FAVOR OF EQUALITY.

>> DOES THAT MEAN MARRIAGE
RIGHTS?

>> MARRIAGE.
GAY MARRIAGE.

>> 60% OF CATHOLICS AND 60% OF
LUTHERANS AND.

>> LAST WEEK JASE BOLGER SAID HE
WAS OPEN BUT HE SAID THE

DISCUSSION TOO OFTEN HAS BEEN
DEHUMANIZING OF LGBT PEOPLE AND

DEMONIZING OF RELIGIOUS PEOPLE
WHO SEE A MORALE PROBLEM THERE.

IS THE LBGT RIGHTS MOVEMENT
GUILTY OF THAT.

>> THAT IS A STEREOTYPE AND IT
IS NOT TRUE.

WE'RE NOT LACKING FAITH.
WE'RE LACKING CHURCHES THAT

ACCEPT US.
WE HAVE A GREAT NUMBER OF LGBT

COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHO ARE VERY
RELIGIOUS AND HAVE HAD TO

PRACTICE ON THEIR OWN AND I'M
NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT MORE

LIBERAL DENOMINATIONS.
WE HAVE LGBT CATHOLIC.

>> THE PROBLEM IS THE HIERARCHY
OF THE CHURCH.

>> YES.
AND WHEN YOU MENTION THE

CATHOLIC CHURCH IMMEDIATELY WHAT
I THINK OF IS THE PROBLEM IN

MICHIGAN WITH THE POLITICAL
LEADERSHIP.

IT IS NOT THAT THE CATHOLIC
MEMBERSHIP IS ANTI.

IT'S THE CATHOLIC LEADERSHIP IS
DIGGING IN THEIR HEELS AND

REFUSING TO MOVE ON THEIR
POSITION IN ORDER TO ADDRESS THE

NEEDS AND --
>> AND THEY WILL SPEND A BOAT

LOAD OF MONEY TO FIGHT YOU.
>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> YOU ASSUME THAT.
>> WE HAVE TO.

>> HOW MUCH DO YOU HAVE TO COME
UP WITH?

>> $12 MILLION.
IF YOU'VE GOT THAT ON YOU I'LL

TAKE IT FROM YOU.
>> HOW MUCH OF THAT WILL BE OUT

OF STATE MONEY?
>> I HOPE MOST OF THIS WILL COME

FROM WITHIN MICHIGAN.
>> ANOTHER SIDE IS GOING TO SAY

THOSE OUTSIDE GROUPS ARE COMING
IN --

>> AND YOU KNOW WHAT IS SO FUNNY
ABOUT THAT IS ANY TIME WE TRY TO

PASS A HUMAN RIGHTS ORDINANCE WE
ARE COMMITTED TO LETTING THE

COMMUNITY LEAD.
WE'RE MID TO LETTING THE

MUNICIPALITY DECIDE.
>> YOU WOULD TAKE OUT OF STATE

MONEY?
>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE'LL TAKE SOME HELP BUT WE
DON'T WANT TO MAKE IT AN EFFORT

OF A NATIONAL MOVEMENT.
WE WANT TO MAKE IT A MICHIGAN

MOVEMENT.
WHERE NATIONAL IAN TEE LGBT

ORGANIZATIONS WILL POUR IN MONEY
TO STOP MUNICIPAL PROGRESS.

>> WE'RE OUT OF TIME.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON THE

PROGRAM.
DON'T FORGET WE'RE AT WKAR.ORG.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK RIGHT
HERE ON "OFF THE RECORD."

Generated by CCExtractor
http://ccextractor.sourceforge.net