1 00:00:04,900 --> 00:00:05,533 Welcome back. 2 00:00:05,533 --> 00:00:06,166 Representative 3 00:00:06,166 --> 00:00:07,200 Emily Dievendorf. 4 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:07,733 A new House 5 00:00:07,933 --> 00:00:09,333 Democratic member is up next. 6 00:00:09,333 --> 00:00:10,300 And our lead story, 7 00:00:10,300 --> 00:00:11,266 the governor's council 8 00:00:11,266 --> 00:00:12,700 to grow the state population. 9 00:00:12,700 --> 00:00:13,100 They met, 10 00:00:13,366 --> 00:00:14,600 but what are they doing 11 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:15,300 on the yacht? 12 00:00:15,300 --> 00:00:16,533 Our panel, Simon Schuster, 13 00:00:16,533 --> 00:00:17,266 Emily Lawler 14 00:00:17,266 --> 00:00:18,566 and Zoe Clark 15 00:00:18,566 --> 00:00:19,400 sit in with us 16 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:21,033 as we get the inside out. 17 00:00:21,033 --> 00:00:25,433 Off the record. 18 00:00:25,433 --> 00:00:26,366 Production of Off 19 00:00:26,366 --> 00:00:27,700 the Record is made possible 20 00:00:27,700 --> 00:00:28,966 in part by 21 00:00:28,966 --> 00:00:30,866 Martin Waymire, a full service 22 00:00:30,866 --> 00:00:32,866 strategic communications agency 23 00:00:32,866 --> 00:00:34,033 partnering with clients 24 00:00:34,033 --> 00:00:35,233 through public relations, 25 00:00:35,233 --> 00:00:36,800 digital marketing and public 26 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:38,166 policy engagement. 27 00:00:38,166 --> 00:00:38,433 Learn 28 00:00:38,866 --> 00:00:41,433 more at martinwaymire.com. 29 00:00:41,433 --> 00:00:42,233 And now 30 00:00:42,233 --> 00:00:43,833 this edition of Off the Record 31 00:00:43,833 --> 00:00:46,333 with Tim Skubick. 32 00:00:46,333 --> 00:00:47,100 Thank you very much. 33 00:00:47,100 --> 00:00:47,400 Welcome. 34 00:00:47,666 --> 00:00:48,200 Two off the record 35 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:49,633 on this beautiful, 36 00:00:49,633 --> 00:00:51,800 ugly, pure Michigan morning. 37 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:53,466 I think summer is over. 38 00:00:53,466 --> 00:00:54,500 October 13th. 39 00:00:54,500 --> 00:00:55,600 It's Friday the 13th. 40 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:56,733 What are you going to do? 41 00:00:56,733 --> 00:00:57,333 We're going to go to 42 00:00:57,333 --> 00:00:59,666 say good night, folks. 43 00:00:59,666 --> 00:01:00,000 It is 44 00:01:00,233 --> 00:01:01,066 called the Growing 45 00:01:01,066 --> 00:01:02,033 Michigan Together 46 00:01:02,033 --> 00:01:03,200 Council, 47 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:04,400 a group gathered together 48 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:05,266 by the governor 49 00:01:05,266 --> 00:01:06,133 of the state of Michigan 50 00:01:06,133 --> 00:01:06,733 to figure out 51 00:01:06,733 --> 00:01:07,500 how we can get people 52 00:01:07,500 --> 00:01:08,600 to not only stay here, 53 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:09,933 but come here. 54 00:01:09,933 --> 00:01:11,333 They had a meeting this week 55 00:01:11,333 --> 00:01:12,000 that had to do 56 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,400 with recommendations, 57 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:14,933 and the recommendations 58 00:01:14,933 --> 00:01:16,633 were not very specific. 59 00:01:16,633 --> 00:01:17,500 Emily, maybe. 60 00:01:17,500 --> 00:01:19,300 A little wishy-er and washy-er 61 00:01:19,300 --> 00:01:20,433 than you would have thought, 62 00:01:20,433 --> 00:01:21,166 but I don't think 63 00:01:21,166 --> 00:01:22,200 these are the final set 64 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:23,133 of recommendations. 65 00:01:23,133 --> 00:01:23,300 Better 66 00:01:23,833 --> 00:01:25,533 not because recommendations. 67 00:01:25,533 --> 00:01:26,533 Sort of a peek 68 00:01:26,533 --> 00:01:28,133 into how the council's going 69 00:01:28,133 --> 00:01:28,833 and some of the things 70 00:01:28,833 --> 00:01:29,666 they're thinking about 71 00:01:29,666 --> 00:01:32,066 specifically around education. 72 00:01:32,066 --> 00:01:34,066 A lot of it is not exactly 73 00:01:34,066 --> 00:01:35,600 100% new to us. 74 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:36,333 For example, 75 00:01:36,333 --> 00:01:38,166 they're sort of thinking about 76 00:01:38,166 --> 00:01:40,200 K-12 as like pre-K 14. 77 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:40,866 That's something 78 00:01:40,866 --> 00:01:41,766 that we've heard before, 79 00:01:41,766 --> 00:01:42,700 certainly in terms 80 00:01:42,700 --> 00:01:44,100 of getting everyone 81 00:01:44,100 --> 00:01:44,966 at least a path through 82 00:01:44,966 --> 00:01:46,233 community college. 83 00:01:46,233 --> 00:01:47,000 That's obviously 84 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,666 a stated goal of the governor, 85 00:01:48,666 --> 00:01:49,400 is that she's looking 86 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:50,000 to increase 87 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,066 educational attainment 88 00:01:51,066 --> 00:01:51,866 in the state. 89 00:01:51,866 --> 00:01:52,800 But I think we are kind 90 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,100 of crying for details 91 00:01:54,100 --> 00:01:54,700 at this point. 92 00:01:54,700 --> 00:01:55,666 And this council 93 00:01:55,666 --> 00:01:57,100 is wrapping up in December. 94 00:01:57,100 --> 00:01:59,200 They are having like meetings 95 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:00,333 and also talking 96 00:02:00,333 --> 00:02:01,633 to citizens across the state. 97 00:02:01,633 --> 00:02:02,833 I sat down with Hilary Doerr, 98 00:02:02,833 --> 00:02:03,766 who is the 99 00:02:03,766 --> 00:02:04,700 Michigan's first, 100 00:02:04,700 --> 00:02:05,766 and she will say the country's 101 00:02:05,766 --> 00:02:07,466 first chief growth 102 00:02:07,466 --> 00:02:09,100 officer last week. 103 00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:10,833 And this is all about this 104 00:02:10,833 --> 00:02:12,033 this executive director 105 00:02:12,033 --> 00:02:12,966 that the governor 106 00:02:12,966 --> 00:02:13,500 put together on 107 00:02:13,500 --> 00:02:14,166 Mackinac Island, 108 00:02:14,166 --> 00:02:15,166 which is all about 109 00:02:15,166 --> 00:02:16,266 Michigan's population. 110 00:02:16,266 --> 00:02:17,100 They have made 111 00:02:17,100 --> 00:02:18,866 decisions on recommendations 112 00:02:18,866 --> 00:02:19,633 but declined 113 00:02:19,633 --> 00:02:21,233 to let us know what they are. 114 00:02:21,233 --> 00:02:21,966 Yeah, I mean, 115 00:02:21,966 --> 00:02:23,033 when you look at the problems 116 00:02:23,033 --> 00:02:23,766 that they're trying to face, 117 00:02:23,766 --> 00:02:25,100 these are some of the largest, 118 00:02:25,100 --> 00:02:26,000 most systemic issues 119 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:26,400 that the state 120 00:02:26,633 --> 00:02:27,666 has faced for decades. 121 00:02:27,666 --> 00:02:29,000 And so when you look at them 122 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:30,166 trying to lay out a road map 123 00:02:30,166 --> 00:02:31,066 for what these solutions 124 00:02:31,066 --> 00:02:31,733 are going to be, 125 00:02:31,733 --> 00:02:32,400 when you see these 126 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:33,300 initial recommendations 127 00:02:33,300 --> 00:02:34,166 is essentially 128 00:02:34,166 --> 00:02:35,000 we just need to solve 129 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:36,200 these systemic problems 130 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:36,966 and then everything 131 00:02:36,966 --> 00:02:38,266 will be all right. 132 00:02:38,266 --> 00:02:38,933 And so I think that 133 00:02:38,933 --> 00:02:39,433 it frustrates 134 00:02:39,433 --> 00:02:39,933 a lot of people 135 00:02:40,166 --> 00:02:40,900 that they're just seeing an 136 00:02:40,900 --> 00:02:42,533 ID of the problem 137 00:02:42,533 --> 00:02:42,933 and saying 138 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:43,933 we just fix the problem 139 00:02:43,933 --> 00:02:44,900 rather than saying, here's 140 00:02:44,900 --> 00:02:45,733 how we fix the problem. 141 00:02:45,733 --> 00:02:46,700 The drill in our town 142 00:02:46,700 --> 00:02:48,100 is when we have a council 143 00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:48,866 like this, 144 00:02:48,866 --> 00:02:49,766 those nosy 145 00:02:49,766 --> 00:02:50,633 reporters start 146 00:02:50,633 --> 00:02:51,433 making phone calls 147 00:02:51,433 --> 00:02:51,800 to find out 148 00:02:52,100 --> 00:02:52,866 what they're working on. 149 00:02:52,866 --> 00:02:53,166 I made 150 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:54,266 two phone calls the other day 151 00:02:54,266 --> 00:02:55,533 and was told in no uncertain 152 00:02:55,533 --> 00:02:56,000 terms, 153 00:02:56,233 --> 00:02:57,500 we're not talking to you. 154 00:02:57,500 --> 00:02:57,733 I said, 155 00:02:58,033 --> 00:02:58,300 What do you mean 156 00:02:58,733 --> 00:02:59,766 you're not talking to me? 157 00:02:59,766 --> 00:03:00,766 I've been instructed. 158 00:03:00,766 --> 00:03:03,200 We do not talk to the media 159 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,633 when that's a gag order. 160 00:03:05,633 --> 00:03:08,000 Do I have a consensus on that? 161 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:09,133 Apparently not. 162 00:03:09,133 --> 00:03:09,833 Maybe you just need 163 00:03:09,833 --> 00:03:13,300 better sources. Tim. Well. 164 00:03:13,300 --> 00:03:13,666 Wait. 165 00:03:13,900 --> 00:03:15,066 The story's not done. 166 00:03:15,066 --> 00:03:16,200 I did find some 167 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:17,166 of the recommendations, 168 00:03:17,166 --> 00:03:18,366 which is 169 00:03:18,366 --> 00:03:21,100 $3 billion more for education. 170 00:03:21,100 --> 00:03:21,766 Why don't they want 171 00:03:21,766 --> 00:03:22,466 that number out? 172 00:03:22,466 --> 00:03:24,200 This is what 173 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:25,000 Minority Leader 174 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:25,866 Matt Hall really 175 00:03:25,866 --> 00:03:26,600 from the beginning, 176 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:27,466 I mean, I remember talking 177 00:03:27,466 --> 00:03:29,233 to him on Mackinaw Island, 178 00:03:29,233 --> 00:03:30,200 I think it was even 179 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:31,200 before the governor 180 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:31,866 made the speech 181 00:03:31,866 --> 00:03:33,333 about the Population Council 182 00:03:33,333 --> 00:03:34,066 and he was 183 00:03:34,066 --> 00:03:34,466 this is 184 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:35,633 going to be a tax increase. 185 00:03:35,633 --> 00:03:36,200 And I mean, really, 186 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:36,800 this is what he 187 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:37,800 has been pushing 188 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:38,700 since the beginning. 189 00:03:38,700 --> 00:03:39,833 But to Simon's point, 190 00:03:39,833 --> 00:03:40,966 I mean, intractable 191 00:03:40,966 --> 00:03:42,700 problems aren't 192 00:03:42,700 --> 00:03:44,200 if they were that easy to fix 193 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:45,466 and didn't take any money, 194 00:03:45,466 --> 00:03:46,166 I would certainly 195 00:03:46,166 --> 00:03:47,100 have hoped that Michigan 196 00:03:47,100 --> 00:03:48,433 would have fixed that. 197 00:03:48,433 --> 00:03:49,466 Spend 3 billion 198 00:03:49,466 --> 00:03:50,966 additional dollars on education 199 00:03:50,966 --> 00:03:51,633 without talking 200 00:03:51,633 --> 00:03:52,633 about a tax increase. 201 00:03:52,633 --> 00:03:54,000 Now, you could close loopholes. 202 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:55,000 There's other ways. 203 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:56,333 But Mr.. 204 00:03:56,333 --> 00:03:57,766 The chair person says 205 00:03:57,766 --> 00:03:58,466 tax increase 206 00:03:58,466 --> 00:04:00,000 is not in my lexicon. 207 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:00,233 That's 208 00:04:00,566 --> 00:04:00,800 because he doesn't 209 00:04:01,066 --> 00:04:02,066 have a lexicon 210 00:04:02,066 --> 00:04:03,900 when it comes to tax increases. 211 00:04:03,900 --> 00:04:05,500 Is the Republican co-chair. 212 00:04:05,500 --> 00:04:07,033 Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. 213 00:04:07,033 --> 00:04:07,866 I mean, that's the beauty 214 00:04:07,866 --> 00:04:08,733 of this council, right? 215 00:04:08,733 --> 00:04:09,366 I think if you look 216 00:04:09,366 --> 00:04:10,133 at the biggest setback 217 00:04:10,133 --> 00:04:10,533 from Governor 218 00:04:10,733 --> 00:04:11,433 Whitmer's first term, 219 00:04:11,433 --> 00:04:12,433 it was proposing a gas 220 00:04:12,433 --> 00:04:14,433 tax increase that sort of died. 221 00:04:14,433 --> 00:04:15,500 It never happened. 222 00:04:15,500 --> 00:04:16,766 And the council is great 223 00:04:16,766 --> 00:04:18,100 because they can propose 224 00:04:18,100 --> 00:04:19,000 for Governor Whitmer 225 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:19,566 that taxes 226 00:04:19,566 --> 00:04:20,333 have to be increased, 227 00:04:20,333 --> 00:04:21,633 that revenue has to be raised, 228 00:04:21,633 --> 00:04:22,200 which is something 229 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:22,633 you haven't heard 230 00:04:22,633 --> 00:04:22,833 from the 231 00:04:23,300 --> 00:04:24,066 Democratic legislature, 232 00:04:24,066 --> 00:04:24,766 but neither 233 00:04:24,766 --> 00:04:26,100 neither the governor nor 234 00:04:26,100 --> 00:04:27,300 the legislature has to do it 235 00:04:27,300 --> 00:04:27,600 well. 236 00:04:28,033 --> 00:04:28,700 And at yesterday's meeting, 237 00:04:28,700 --> 00:04:29,700 they told reporters 238 00:04:29,700 --> 00:04:31,133 they couldn't come in the room. 239 00:04:31,133 --> 00:04:32,066 Yeah, it's like 240 00:04:32,066 --> 00:04:33,266 trying to get in the room 241 00:04:33,266 --> 00:04:33,866 and that 242 00:04:33,866 --> 00:04:34,500 doesn't look like 243 00:04:34,500 --> 00:04:35,200 it worked out. 244 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:35,566 This is a. 245 00:04:35,900 --> 00:04:38,000 Council with an attitude. 246 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:38,633 You know, 247 00:04:38,633 --> 00:04:39,433 they certainly have 248 00:04:39,433 --> 00:04:40,500 a closed door attitude. 249 00:04:40,500 --> 00:04:42,500 We'll give them that figure. 250 00:04:42,500 --> 00:04:43,433 Closed door meetings. 251 00:04:43,433 --> 00:04:44,033 There really hasn't 252 00:04:44,033 --> 00:04:44,866 been a lot of insight 253 00:04:44,866 --> 00:04:46,333 into their process, 254 00:04:46,333 --> 00:04:47,233 but they are coming out 255 00:04:47,233 --> 00:04:47,800 with this set 256 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:48,800 of recommendations 257 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:49,233 that I guess 258 00:04:49,466 --> 00:04:50,233 we'll learn more about. 259 00:04:50,233 --> 00:04:51,033 They're supposed to 260 00:04:51,033 --> 00:04:53,733 have them out by December 1st, 261 00:04:53,733 --> 00:04:54,933 so we'll find out 262 00:04:54,933 --> 00:04:55,633 more in terms 263 00:04:55,633 --> 00:04:57,000 of as you're talking about, 264 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:58,200 not just, you know, 265 00:04:58,200 --> 00:04:59,633 saying what the problems are, 266 00:04:59,633 --> 00:05:01,200 but what the fixes are. 267 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:02,066 Do you want to say that? 268 00:05:02,066 --> 00:05:03,633 It's a really short timeline? 269 00:05:03,633 --> 00:05:04,500 I think people have said 270 00:05:04,500 --> 00:05:05,833 that from the beginning. 271 00:05:05,833 --> 00:05:06,100 You know, 272 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:07,500 the Mackinac Policy conference 273 00:05:07,500 --> 00:05:08,333 where this was announced 274 00:05:08,333 --> 00:05:09,966 as in May, 275 00:05:09,966 --> 00:05:10,400 you know, 276 00:05:10,633 --> 00:05:11,433 at the time it was said 277 00:05:11,433 --> 00:05:12,233 this would be wrapped up 278 00:05:12,233 --> 00:05:12,833 by December. 279 00:05:12,833 --> 00:05:14,100 That is a heavy lift. 280 00:05:14,100 --> 00:05:15,500 The appointments took 281 00:05:15,500 --> 00:05:16,300 several months, 282 00:05:16,300 --> 00:05:17,500 I think, to 283 00:05:17,500 --> 00:05:19,966 fully populate this council. 284 00:05:19,966 --> 00:05:21,033 And it just seems like I 285 00:05:21,033 --> 00:05:21,833 think a lot of people 286 00:05:21,833 --> 00:05:22,566 have questioned 287 00:05:22,566 --> 00:05:23,466 what kind of work 288 00:05:23,466 --> 00:05:23,733 they're going 289 00:05:24,233 --> 00:05:25,133 to get done on that time frame 290 00:05:25,133 --> 00:05:26,200 and whether we'll really see 291 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:26,800 sort of like 292 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:27,800 the substantive goals 293 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:28,900 or like we said, 294 00:05:28,900 --> 00:05:30,633 maybe just the 295 00:05:30,633 --> 00:05:31,533 sort of outlining 296 00:05:31,533 --> 00:05:32,100 some of these 297 00:05:32,100 --> 00:05:33,033 intractable issues 298 00:05:33,033 --> 00:05:33,466 that are 299 00:05:33,733 --> 00:05:34,500 still very hard to solve. 300 00:05:34,500 --> 00:05:34,700 Right. 301 00:05:35,233 --> 00:05:35,433 I'm almost trying to think, 302 00:05:35,833 --> 00:05:35,966 are we going to see 303 00:05:36,533 --> 00:05:37,100 like a michigan Population 304 00:05:37,100 --> 00:05:38,233 Council 2.0 right. 305 00:05:38,233 --> 00:05:39,566 So you do the recommendations 306 00:05:39,566 --> 00:05:40,433 and then it's like, okay, 307 00:05:40,433 --> 00:05:41,500 but how do you actually 308 00:05:41,500 --> 00:05:42,233 do the fix? 309 00:05:42,233 --> 00:05:43,533 What does that implementation 310 00:05:43,533 --> 00:05:44,400 actually look like 311 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:45,533 when as we know, 312 00:05:45,533 --> 00:05:45,933 you know, 313 00:05:46,333 --> 00:05:47,266 last year we were talking about 314 00:05:47,266 --> 00:05:48,333 just how much 315 00:05:48,333 --> 00:05:49,400 surplus money 316 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,066 there was in the budget. 317 00:05:51,066 --> 00:05:52,100 Now it's looking like there is 318 00:05:52,100 --> 00:05:53,033 It could be so much, 319 00:05:53,033 --> 00:05:54,266 you know, billions of dollars 320 00:05:54,266 --> 00:05:55,000 to spend. 321 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,033 What almost sort of wonders 322 00:05:56,033 --> 00:05:57,233 had this aligned, 323 00:05:57,233 --> 00:05:57,466 you know, 324 00:05:57,933 --> 00:05:58,933 you can't go back and fix, 325 00:05:58,933 --> 00:05:59,866 you know, timelines, 326 00:05:59,866 --> 00:06:01,300 but had something, you know, 327 00:06:01,300 --> 00:06:02,000 aligned 328 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:02,933 with these recommendations 329 00:06:02,933 --> 00:06:04,466 when there was still billion 330 00:06:04,466 --> 00:06:05,633 dollar surplus, 331 00:06:05,633 --> 00:06:06,500 what that could have 332 00:06:06,500 --> 00:06:07,166 looked like 333 00:06:07,166 --> 00:06:08,066 and really kind of like 334 00:06:08,066 --> 00:06:09,400 institutional changes. 335 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:09,933 To be fair 336 00:06:09,933 --> 00:06:10,533 here, look at 337 00:06:10,733 --> 00:06:11,833 I understand that commissioners 338 00:06:11,833 --> 00:06:12,500 want to keep stuff 339 00:06:12,500 --> 00:06:13,900 secret until it's soup. 340 00:06:13,900 --> 00:06:14,966 Okay. I understand that. 341 00:06:14,966 --> 00:06:16,500 But could not an argument 342 00:06:16,500 --> 00:06:17,366 be made 343 00:06:17,366 --> 00:06:18,300 by putting some of the 344 00:06:18,300 --> 00:06:19,000 stuff out there? 345 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,633 You get more public input 346 00:06:20,633 --> 00:06:21,500 and you might be able 347 00:06:21,500 --> 00:06:23,033 to add more flavor to the soup 348 00:06:23,033 --> 00:06:24,933 that people will drink. 349 00:06:24,933 --> 00:06:26,166 I just make that point. 350 00:06:26,166 --> 00:06:26,400 All right. 351 00:06:26,866 --> 00:06:27,433 The Democrats in the House 352 00:06:27,433 --> 00:06:28,100 continue 353 00:06:28,100 --> 00:06:29,300 to have voting problems. 354 00:06:29,300 --> 00:06:30,433 What are they, Simon? 355 00:06:30,433 --> 00:06:31,133 Yeah, I mean, 356 00:06:31,133 --> 00:06:31,900 I think this also ties in 357 00:06:31,900 --> 00:06:32,800 in the Population Council 358 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:33,766 because we look at part 359 00:06:33,766 --> 00:06:34,466 one of this year 360 00:06:34,466 --> 00:06:35,500 for the legislature, 361 00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:36,466 it was about hitting on 362 00:06:36,466 --> 00:06:38,133 do on so much of the Keystone 363 00:06:38,133 --> 00:06:39,433 accomplishments that you saw 364 00:06:39,433 --> 00:06:40,233 during Rick Snyder's 365 00:06:40,233 --> 00:06:40,933 administration 366 00:06:40,933 --> 00:06:41,700 during a Republican 367 00:06:41,700 --> 00:06:43,133 controlled legislature 368 00:06:43,133 --> 00:06:44,600 and the Population Council. 369 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,100 Like this legislative agenda 370 00:06:46,100 --> 00:06:47,266 is sort of the second part 371 00:06:47,266 --> 00:06:47,700 where they see 372 00:06:48,066 --> 00:06:49,233 what policy do we want to craft 373 00:06:49,233 --> 00:06:50,000 that's new? 374 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:51,133 That isn't just a reversal 375 00:06:51,133 --> 00:06:52,400 of what we've seen in the past. 376 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:53,600 And this is where I think 377 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:54,266 they're struggling 378 00:06:54,266 --> 00:06:55,366 more with caucus unity, 379 00:06:55,366 --> 00:06:56,000 getting the votes 380 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:56,833 that they need together 381 00:06:56,833 --> 00:06:57,800 to get this this. 382 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,233 Abortion issue is one of them. 383 00:06:59,233 --> 00:07:00,466 They want to make some changes. 384 00:07:00,466 --> 00:07:01,400 They don't have the votes 385 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:02,000 to do that. 386 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,233 The Mike Duncan tax, 387 00:07:03,233 --> 00:07:04,833 which looks to be on life 388 00:07:04,833 --> 00:07:06,166 support in the House, 389 00:07:06,166 --> 00:07:07,333 they can't get the votes. 390 00:07:07,333 --> 00:07:07,633 I mean, 391 00:07:08,066 --> 00:07:09,400 it was put up on the board. 392 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:10,700 I mean, like 393 00:07:10,700 --> 00:07:11,533 not just like 394 00:07:11,533 --> 00:07:12,300 they can't like, 395 00:07:12,300 --> 00:07:12,466 you know, 396 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:13,733 talking about it was then 397 00:07:13,733 --> 00:07:15,533 put up on the board and they. 398 00:07:15,533 --> 00:07:15,833 Didn't 399 00:07:16,233 --> 00:07:16,833 if you don't have the votes, 400 00:07:16,833 --> 00:07:17,400 you don't turn 401 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:18,200 the green lights on. 402 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:19,800 That that tends to be the rule. 403 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:21,366 I mean, it is rare, right, 404 00:07:21,366 --> 00:07:22,466 Because of course, 405 00:07:22,466 --> 00:07:23,766 when you are in the majority, 406 00:07:23,766 --> 00:07:24,600 you get to say, you know, 407 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:25,633 this is what we're voting on 408 00:07:25,633 --> 00:07:25,900 right now. 409 00:07:26,233 --> 00:07:26,666 It's pretty darn rare 410 00:07:26,900 --> 00:07:28,300 unless you want to make 411 00:07:28,300 --> 00:07:29,700 sort of the other side 412 00:07:29,700 --> 00:07:30,433 take a really, 413 00:07:30,433 --> 00:07:31,666 really difficult vote. 414 00:07:31,666 --> 00:07:34,433 But even then, it's very rare 415 00:07:34,433 --> 00:07:35,333 to see that happen. 416 00:07:35,333 --> 00:07:35,633 I think it's 417 00:07:36,033 --> 00:07:36,800 an example of intra caucus 418 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,333 pressure here because it shows 419 00:07:38,333 --> 00:07:38,766 I mean, 420 00:07:39,033 --> 00:07:40,066 I think if my memory serves, 421 00:07:40,066 --> 00:07:40,933 the majority floor 422 00:07:40,933 --> 00:07:41,533 leader in self 423 00:07:41,533 --> 00:07:42,866 and was also his name 424 00:07:42,866 --> 00:07:43,300 stayed white 425 00:07:43,566 --> 00:07:44,300 during that vote as well. 426 00:07:44,300 --> 00:07:45,700 So I think this shows that up 427 00:07:45,700 --> 00:07:46,033 and down 428 00:07:46,366 --> 00:07:47,200 the ranks of leadership 429 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:47,933 that while 430 00:07:47,933 --> 00:07:48,766 there's a lot of support 431 00:07:48,766 --> 00:07:49,666 perhaps in Detroit 432 00:07:49,666 --> 00:07:50,866 for this measure, 433 00:07:50,866 --> 00:07:51,900 it's not going to necessarily 434 00:07:51,900 --> 00:07:52,566 extend outside 435 00:07:52,566 --> 00:07:53,266 the bounds of the city. 436 00:07:53,266 --> 00:07:54,066 I do think that 437 00:07:54,066 --> 00:07:55,133 what's potentially embarrassing 438 00:07:55,133 --> 00:07:56,233 about putting up a vote 439 00:07:56,233 --> 00:07:56,866 and having it 440 00:07:56,866 --> 00:07:57,500 flop is 441 00:07:57,500 --> 00:07:59,366 being surprised by that. 442 00:07:59,366 --> 00:08:00,733 I don't think that Speaker Tate 443 00:08:00,733 --> 00:08:02,166 was surprised by the result. 444 00:08:02,166 --> 00:08:03,966 I think it's. Something we saw. 445 00:08:03,966 --> 00:08:05,066 I mean, this is this story's 446 00:08:05,066 --> 00:08:05,666 been going on 447 00:08:05,666 --> 00:08:06,500 for a couple of weeks 448 00:08:06,500 --> 00:08:07,500 that they can't get the 449 00:08:07,500 --> 00:08:08,266 in a row. Yeah. 450 00:08:08,266 --> 00:08:09,566 And what be really interesting 451 00:08:09,566 --> 00:08:10,366 to watch is, 452 00:08:10,366 --> 00:08:12,133 you know folks who who who know 453 00:08:12,133 --> 00:08:12,800 the politics 454 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,200 and how Mike Duggan uses 455 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:16,500 levers of power. 456 00:08:16,500 --> 00:08:17,333 You know, he's saying, 457 00:08:17,333 --> 00:08:18,066 I'm going to go back 458 00:08:18,066 --> 00:08:19,266 and we're going to try 459 00:08:19,266 --> 00:08:19,733 this again. 460 00:08:19,966 --> 00:08:21,700 It's going to be fascinating 461 00:08:21,700 --> 00:08:24,133 to see what those levers are 462 00:08:24,133 --> 00:08:24,800 that he starts. 463 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:25,933 Especially for somebody 464 00:08:25,933 --> 00:08:27,133 who would like to be governor, 465 00:08:27,133 --> 00:08:28,100 who would then be pulling 466 00:08:28,100 --> 00:08:29,066 those levers, is. 467 00:08:29,066 --> 00:08:30,500 Absolutely talk about 468 00:08:30,500 --> 00:08:31,100 a, you know, 469 00:08:31,100 --> 00:08:32,233 Mike Duggan looking 470 00:08:32,233 --> 00:08:37,066 looking ahead. 471 00:08:37,066 --> 00:08:37,666 I don't have two 472 00:08:37,666 --> 00:08:38,200 sources that 473 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:38,633 I'm putting out 474 00:08:38,866 --> 00:08:39,600 on the table right now. 475 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,100 I'll sure you know. 476 00:08:42,100 --> 00:08:42,433 But no, 477 00:08:42,700 --> 00:08:43,200 I mean, that's it's 478 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:44,833 another really interesting 479 00:08:44,833 --> 00:08:45,466 dynamic, too. 480 00:08:45,466 --> 00:08:46,600 And when you have, 481 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:47,766 you know, for the first time, 482 00:08:47,766 --> 00:08:49,800 a Democratic speaker 483 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:50,533 of the House 484 00:08:50,533 --> 00:08:52,266 from Detroit in decades 485 00:08:52,266 --> 00:08:53,466 going along 486 00:08:53,466 --> 00:08:54,466 with a Democratic mayor 487 00:08:54,466 --> 00:08:55,366 and working in tandem 488 00:08:55,366 --> 00:08:56,066 on this, it's 489 00:08:56,066 --> 00:08:57,533 fascinating to watch this 490 00:08:57,533 --> 00:08:58,333 this soup. 491 00:08:58,333 --> 00:08:59,366 I think this shows the limits 492 00:08:59,366 --> 00:09:00,266 of the geographic shift 493 00:09:00,266 --> 00:09:00,900 that we've seen in 494 00:09:00,900 --> 00:09:01,966 legislative leadership. 495 00:09:01,966 --> 00:09:02,900 I mean, 496 00:09:02,900 --> 00:09:04,466 you saw that for the 497 00:09:04,466 --> 00:09:05,166 the majority of the time 498 00:09:05,166 --> 00:09:05,666 that Republicans 499 00:09:05,666 --> 00:09:06,400 were in charge. 500 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:07,666 These were representatives 501 00:09:07,666 --> 00:09:09,500 and senators from rural areas. 502 00:09:09,500 --> 00:09:10,233 And now for the 503 00:09:10,233 --> 00:09:11,000 you know, for the first time, 504 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:11,600 as you said, 505 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:11,966 we have a leader of 506 00:09:12,300 --> 00:09:12,966 the House is from Detroit, 507 00:09:12,966 --> 00:09:13,633 leader of the Senate. 508 00:09:13,633 --> 00:09:14,900 He's from Grand Rapids. 509 00:09:14,900 --> 00:09:15,900 But it also shows 510 00:09:15,900 --> 00:09:17,433 us that the shift from an, 511 00:09:17,433 --> 00:09:18,100 you know, urban 512 00:09:18,100 --> 00:09:18,800 representation 513 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:19,933 or representation towards 514 00:09:19,933 --> 00:09:21,166 urban representation 515 00:09:21,166 --> 00:09:22,133 is not necessarily 516 00:09:22,133 --> 00:09:23,066 a carte blanche 517 00:09:23,066 --> 00:09:24,833 rewriting of state policy. 518 00:09:24,833 --> 00:09:25,166 Well, 519 00:09:25,500 --> 00:09:26,166 if you don't have enough 520 00:09:26,166 --> 00:09:26,766 votes, it's 521 00:09:26,766 --> 00:09:28,500 tough to be a leader. 522 00:09:28,500 --> 00:09:29,300 But maybe that's 523 00:09:29,300 --> 00:09:30,400 where the leadership really is. 524 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:31,333 When you can't get the votes 525 00:09:31,333 --> 00:09:32,400 that you do get the votes. 526 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:33,000 Well, and then 527 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:33,966 figuring out, okay, 528 00:09:33,966 --> 00:09:34,200 I mean, 529 00:09:34,500 --> 00:09:34,900 if it's not just 530 00:09:35,100 --> 00:09:35,866 within your caucus, 531 00:09:35,866 --> 00:09:36,700 I mean, let's remember, too, 532 00:09:36,700 --> 00:09:37,900 there were Republicans 533 00:09:37,900 --> 00:09:40,366 who were voting on the board 534 00:09:40,366 --> 00:09:42,400 for this legislation. 535 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:43,700 And so, again, it's it's 536 00:09:43,700 --> 00:09:44,500 not just figuring out 537 00:09:44,500 --> 00:09:45,533 what your caucus wants. 538 00:09:45,533 --> 00:09:46,066 It's talking 539 00:09:46,066 --> 00:09:46,666 to, you know, 540 00:09:46,666 --> 00:09:48,200 the minority leader 541 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:49,466 and figuring out what it is 542 00:09:49,466 --> 00:09:50,800 that they want as well. 543 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:51,233 Well, on 544 00:09:51,233 --> 00:09:51,733 the abortion 545 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,500 issue, one person in the House 546 00:09:53,500 --> 00:09:54,933 Democratic caucus is holding 547 00:09:54,933 --> 00:09:56,200 this one up. Emily. Right. 548 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:57,366 Representative Whitsett 549 00:09:57,366 --> 00:09:58,633 from Detroit 550 00:09:58,633 --> 00:09:59,700 actually told 551 00:09:59,700 --> 00:10:00,666 Clara, my colleague 552 00:10:00,666 --> 00:10:01,233 this week 553 00:10:01,233 --> 00:10:02,400 that she had voted 554 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:03,766 for proposal three. 555 00:10:03,766 --> 00:10:05,300 A lot of people are 556 00:10:05,300 --> 00:10:06,266 sort of envisioning 557 00:10:06,266 --> 00:10:07,000 the current package 558 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:08,033 before the legislature 559 00:10:08,033 --> 00:10:10,133 as a continuation of Proposal 560 00:10:10,133 --> 00:10:11,566 three or sort of a validation 561 00:10:11,566 --> 00:10:12,766 of what voters expressed, 562 00:10:12,766 --> 00:10:13,266 which is that 563 00:10:13,466 --> 00:10:15,500 they wanted abortion to be 564 00:10:15,500 --> 00:10:17,000 legal in the state of Michigan. 565 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,733 And this would sort of remove 566 00:10:18,733 --> 00:10:19,333 a lot of the 567 00:10:19,333 --> 00:10:20,333 logistical barriers 568 00:10:20,333 --> 00:10:22,300 to getting an abortion. 569 00:10:22,300 --> 00:10:23,400 But, you know, representative, 570 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:24,833 which I just isn't convinced 571 00:10:24,833 --> 00:10:25,566 that a voter 572 00:10:25,566 --> 00:10:26,166 is meant to go 573 00:10:26,166 --> 00:10:27,500 that far necessarily. 574 00:10:27,500 --> 00:10:28,266 Just one footnote 575 00:10:28,266 --> 00:10:29,100 on the Mike Duggan thing. 576 00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:29,966 The good news is 577 00:10:29,966 --> 00:10:30,633 he doesn't run 578 00:10:30,633 --> 00:10:32,166 for governor until 2026. 579 00:10:32,166 --> 00:10:34,000 So this will be old news, 580 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:35,066 maybe 581 00:10:35,066 --> 00:10:35,900 unless they're still 582 00:10:35,900 --> 00:10:37,733 trying to get it in 2026. 583 00:10:37,733 --> 00:11:00,300 Was calling our guest today. 584 00:11:00,300 --> 00:11:01,300 Representative, welcome 585 00:11:01,300 --> 00:11:02,166 back to Off the Record. 586 00:11:02,166 --> 00:11:02,966 It's been a while. 587 00:11:02,966 --> 00:11:04,500 Nice to have you on board. Yes. 588 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:05,366 I feel like I was a kid 589 00:11:05,366 --> 00:11:07,566 last time. There you go. 590 00:11:07,566 --> 00:11:08,300 So when the 591 00:11:08,300 --> 00:11:09,000 speaker of the House 592 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:09,933 put out his list of 593 00:11:09,933 --> 00:11:10,600 what should be done 594 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:11,733 in the fall session, 595 00:11:11,733 --> 00:11:13,900 your first thoughts were 596 00:11:13,900 --> 00:11:15,566 some of the stuff I want to do. 597 00:11:15,566 --> 00:11:16,433 Not on the list. 598 00:11:16,433 --> 00:11:18,066 What did you think? 599 00:11:18,066 --> 00:11:20,133 I recognized the value 600 00:11:20,133 --> 00:11:21,766 of prioritizing 601 00:11:21,766 --> 00:11:22,766 really drilling down 602 00:11:22,766 --> 00:11:25,633 on a few things that we feel 603 00:11:25,633 --> 00:11:26,933 we absolutely need to do 604 00:11:26,933 --> 00:11:28,300 before the end of the year. 605 00:11:28,300 --> 00:11:29,300 And I also know 606 00:11:29,300 --> 00:11:30,400 that we can get more done 607 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:31,866 while we're working on key 608 00:11:31,866 --> 00:11:34,100 pieces, key priorities, 609 00:11:34,100 --> 00:11:36,500 and have broader appeal 610 00:11:36,500 --> 00:11:37,533 to those folks 611 00:11:37,533 --> 00:11:38,700 that we're here to serve. 612 00:11:38,700 --> 00:11:39,966 But broader appeal 613 00:11:39,966 --> 00:11:42,366 because we need to answer 614 00:11:42,366 --> 00:11:44,233 the policy questions 615 00:11:44,233 --> 00:11:45,433 and challenges that address 616 00:11:45,433 --> 00:11:46,866 our most basic needs. 617 00:11:46,866 --> 00:11:47,900 The speaker ignored 618 00:11:47,900 --> 00:11:50,000 the is a progressive wing 619 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,533 and what label do you like 620 00:11:51,533 --> 00:11:52,333 on the ones of you 621 00:11:52,333 --> 00:11:53,666 that are on a different page? 622 00:11:53,666 --> 00:11:54,766 Well, I think that depends, 623 00:11:54,766 --> 00:11:55,966 because I think we're starting 624 00:11:55,966 --> 00:11:57,266 to try to use progressive 625 00:11:57,266 --> 00:11:57,666 like it's 626 00:11:57,666 --> 00:11:58,600 a bad word 627 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,066 or like it's unreasonable 628 00:12:00,066 --> 00:12:02,833 or unrealistic substitute. 629 00:12:02,833 --> 00:12:04,566 You know, I. 630 00:12:04,566 --> 00:12:07,833 Some would say it's guided. 631 00:12:07,833 --> 00:12:09,166 And I would say that 632 00:12:09,166 --> 00:12:10,166 I would contend 633 00:12:10,166 --> 00:12:11,133 that is very wrong. 634 00:12:11,133 --> 00:12:11,733 We have not 635 00:12:11,933 --> 00:12:14,633 a lot of very strategic forward 636 00:12:14,633 --> 00:12:16,800 thinking legislators 637 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,533 that would like to respond 638 00:12:19,533 --> 00:12:20,133 to the will 639 00:12:20,133 --> 00:12:20,866 of their constituents 640 00:12:20,866 --> 00:12:22,433 and also model 641 00:12:22,433 --> 00:12:23,466 better governance, 642 00:12:23,466 --> 00:12:24,333 good governance. 643 00:12:24,333 --> 00:12:25,066 Representative, 644 00:12:25,066 --> 00:12:25,900 can you explain 645 00:12:25,900 --> 00:12:26,933 a little bit about 646 00:12:26,933 --> 00:12:27,500 I don't know 647 00:12:27,500 --> 00:12:28,066 that I want to use 648 00:12:28,066 --> 00:12:28,766 the word disconnect. 649 00:12:28,766 --> 00:12:30,233 Maybe you want to like 650 00:12:30,233 --> 00:12:30,866 and I understand 651 00:12:30,866 --> 00:12:31,166 you don't 652 00:12:31,566 --> 00:12:31,933 want to talk about things 653 00:12:32,233 --> 00:12:32,866 that happened in caucus, 654 00:12:32,866 --> 00:12:33,733 but help me understand 655 00:12:33,733 --> 00:12:35,900 how the conversations 656 00:12:35,900 --> 00:12:36,466 are happening 657 00:12:36,466 --> 00:12:37,266 and how the agenda 658 00:12:37,266 --> 00:12:38,600 is being determined 659 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,733 and are the progressive wing 660 00:12:40,733 --> 00:12:40,900 or however 661 00:12:41,433 --> 00:12:42,566 feeling left out of that? 662 00:12:42,566 --> 00:12:44,766 Are you not having enough? 663 00:12:44,766 --> 00:12:45,500 Is not enough 664 00:12:45,500 --> 00:12:46,633 being asked of you guys like, 665 00:12:46,633 --> 00:12:47,466 how is it working 666 00:12:47,466 --> 00:12:48,233 that the agenda is 667 00:12:48,233 --> 00:12:49,866 putting out in this way? Yeah. 668 00:12:49,866 --> 00:12:51,233 So I'll start by saying 669 00:12:51,233 --> 00:12:52,666 we have a group 670 00:12:52,666 --> 00:12:54,666 of more progressive legislators 671 00:12:54,666 --> 00:12:56,300 and even moderate Dems 672 00:12:56,300 --> 00:12:57,066 that came in 673 00:12:57,066 --> 00:12:58,366 with a new philosophy 674 00:12:58,366 --> 00:13:00,100 after this last election 675 00:13:00,100 --> 00:13:01,466 when we were knocking doors. 676 00:13:01,466 --> 00:13:02,600 Our constituent 677 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:03,933 constituencies can 678 00:13:03,933 --> 00:13:05,733 consistently said, 679 00:13:05,733 --> 00:13:06,966 if you are 680 00:13:06,966 --> 00:13:07,866 not going to be there 681 00:13:07,866 --> 00:13:09,433 to represent our needs 682 00:13:09,433 --> 00:13:10,266 and priorities 683 00:13:10,266 --> 00:13:11,600 at the most basic level, 684 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:12,100 then it's 685 00:13:12,333 --> 00:13:13,200 not just that we are voting 686 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:13,900 for the other person 687 00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:14,466 next time, it's 688 00:13:14,466 --> 00:13:15,966 that we're not voting 689 00:13:15,966 --> 00:13:16,866 next time 690 00:13:16,866 --> 00:13:18,466 because we are losing 691 00:13:18,466 --> 00:13:19,500 faith in democracy. 692 00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:20,600 We are losing faith 693 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,000 in governance, in politics, 694 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:23,566 in the way the system works. 695 00:13:23,566 --> 00:13:24,833 So a number of us came back 696 00:13:24,833 --> 00:13:26,066 committing to 697 00:13:26,066 --> 00:13:27,533 we are going to 698 00:13:27,533 --> 00:13:28,933 fight more directly 699 00:13:28,933 --> 00:13:30,033 for what you are 700 00:13:30,033 --> 00:13:31,266 saying that you want 701 00:13:31,266 --> 00:13:32,766 and also asking 702 00:13:32,766 --> 00:13:33,433 for a more 703 00:13:33,433 --> 00:13:35,000 participatory democracy. 704 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:36,300 So from the beginning, 705 00:13:36,300 --> 00:13:37,800 so many in our caucus 706 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,033 have been trying to 707 00:13:40,033 --> 00:13:41,566 facilitate and 708 00:13:41,566 --> 00:13:43,300 and encourage 709 00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:45,766 more discussion within caucus, 710 00:13:45,766 --> 00:13:47,766 allow for more doesn't 711 00:13:47,766 --> 00:13:50,366 come in with the attitude of 712 00:13:50,366 --> 00:13:51,833 we are here to do 713 00:13:51,833 --> 00:13:53,233 more and better. 714 00:13:53,233 --> 00:13:53,966 That doesn't mean 715 00:13:53,966 --> 00:13:55,133 we can't do it strategically. 716 00:13:55,133 --> 00:13:55,700 That doesn't mean 717 00:13:55,700 --> 00:13:56,700 we can't make sure 718 00:13:56,700 --> 00:13:57,266 that we're doing 719 00:13:57,266 --> 00:13:58,000 the public education 720 00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,566 and building the momentum 721 00:13:59,566 --> 00:14:00,700 that will ensure 722 00:14:00,700 --> 00:14:01,566 that we can sustain 723 00:14:01,566 --> 00:14:03,200 the change that we are making. 724 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,033 But we also 725 00:14:05,033 --> 00:14:06,533 need to be transparent 726 00:14:06,533 --> 00:14:07,366 and ethical 727 00:14:07,366 --> 00:14:08,766 and more collaborative 728 00:14:08,766 --> 00:14:09,500 than we've ever been 729 00:14:09,500 --> 00:14:10,300 in Michigan politics 730 00:14:10,300 --> 00:14:10,833 at this moment. 731 00:14:10,833 --> 00:14:11,700 When you talk of 732 00:14:11,700 --> 00:14:12,433 sort of meeting 733 00:14:12,433 --> 00:14:13,733 those basic needs and, 734 00:14:13,733 --> 00:14:14,266 you know, 735 00:14:14,466 --> 00:14:15,700 sort of getting to the bottom 736 00:14:15,700 --> 00:14:16,533 of the grassroots 737 00:14:16,533 --> 00:14:18,633 politics, I guess, 738 00:14:18,633 --> 00:14:19,333 are there things 739 00:14:19,333 --> 00:14:20,100 that the legislature 740 00:14:20,100 --> 00:14:20,800 has accomplished 741 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:21,866 in the first ten months 742 00:14:21,866 --> 00:14:22,466 of this year 743 00:14:22,466 --> 00:14:23,433 that have have gotten 744 00:14:23,433 --> 00:14:24,200 that thought and like, 745 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:25,500 what more do you still think 746 00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:26,300 needs to be done? 747 00:14:26,300 --> 00:14:28,700 Yeah, And to Tim's point 748 00:14:28,700 --> 00:14:31,600 and and Zoey, 749 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,000 part of the reason that we do 750 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:33,466 even need 751 00:14:33,466 --> 00:14:34,133 to come back 752 00:14:34,133 --> 00:14:35,233 and reprioritize is 753 00:14:35,233 --> 00:14:35,866 because we have 754 00:14:35,866 --> 00:14:37,000 been so productive 755 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:37,966 so far this year. 756 00:14:37,966 --> 00:14:38,900 We came in 757 00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:40,433 and we checked the boxes 758 00:14:40,433 --> 00:14:42,366 of a number of the issues 759 00:14:42,366 --> 00:14:43,366 that have been 760 00:14:43,366 --> 00:14:44,000 just kind of 761 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:44,900 hanging there, waiting 762 00:14:44,900 --> 00:14:46,433 for really urgent attention 763 00:14:46,433 --> 00:14:47,633 like increasing 764 00:14:47,633 --> 00:14:50,533 and ensuring ATC, 765 00:14:50,533 --> 00:14:51,400 the repeal 766 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,166 of the retirement tax. 767 00:14:53,166 --> 00:14:53,866 Right. 768 00:14:53,866 --> 00:14:55,366 Eliminating right to work. 769 00:14:55,366 --> 00:14:57,366 We've done some huge things. 770 00:14:57,366 --> 00:14:58,433 And also 771 00:14:58,433 --> 00:15:00,066 these are the priorities 772 00:15:00,066 --> 00:15:01,266 that we've checked off already 773 00:15:01,266 --> 00:15:02,733 that have been sitting around 774 00:15:02,733 --> 00:15:04,400 for a long time 775 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:05,733 and not necessarily 776 00:15:05,733 --> 00:15:07,366 where the most current 777 00:15:07,366 --> 00:15:10,033 urgent demands are 778 00:15:10,033 --> 00:15:11,533 from our constituencies. 779 00:15:11,533 --> 00:15:13,433 So in re-envisioning 780 00:15:13,433 --> 00:15:14,333 and reprioritizing 781 00:15:14,333 --> 00:15:15,633 for the rest of the year, 782 00:15:15,633 --> 00:15:17,166 a lot of us really feel like, 783 00:15:17,166 --> 00:15:17,900 yeah, absolutely, 784 00:15:17,900 --> 00:15:18,666 we should continue 785 00:15:18,666 --> 00:15:19,500 to do all of those 786 00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:22,233 things that clean house, 787 00:15:22,233 --> 00:15:24,066 that bring back order and we 788 00:15:24,066 --> 00:15:25,200 should also be 789 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:26,200 introducing policy 790 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:27,666 that reflects the interests 791 00:15:27,666 --> 00:15:28,333 and priorities 792 00:15:28,333 --> 00:15:29,766 of people right now. 793 00:15:29,766 --> 00:15:31,433 When did those conversations 794 00:15:31,433 --> 00:15:32,866 about reprioritizing 795 00:15:32,866 --> 00:15:33,900 or thinking about the fall 796 00:15:33,900 --> 00:15:34,700 session happen? 797 00:15:34,700 --> 00:15:36,033 When did that begin? 798 00:15:36,033 --> 00:15:37,700 So we had been 799 00:15:37,700 --> 00:15:39,133 having these conversations 800 00:15:39,133 --> 00:15:40,200 throughout the summer. 801 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:40,866 We knew 802 00:15:40,866 --> 00:15:41,533 we were going to have to 803 00:15:41,533 --> 00:15:42,433 come back shortly 804 00:15:42,433 --> 00:15:43,900 before the fall and 805 00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:45,433 and come together as a caucus 806 00:15:45,433 --> 00:15:46,966 with our 807 00:15:46,966 --> 00:15:49,500 with at least a few set goals. 808 00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:51,733 I think that for many of us, 809 00:15:51,733 --> 00:15:53,166 we consider these goals 810 00:15:53,166 --> 00:15:53,800 to be 811 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:55,600 overarching categories 812 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:56,400 of priority 813 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:57,800 as opposed to 814 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,500 just a few specific 815 00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:01,466 policy projects. 816 00:16:01,466 --> 00:16:02,500 Have to list 817 00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:04,266 before the speaker. 818 00:16:04,266 --> 00:16:06,966 Well, I shared a list 819 00:16:06,966 --> 00:16:07,733 that was published 820 00:16:07,733 --> 00:16:08,466 and honestly, 821 00:16:08,466 --> 00:16:10,766 it was a honest assessment 822 00:16:10,766 --> 00:16:12,033 and clear assessment 823 00:16:12,033 --> 00:16:12,633 of where 824 00:16:12,633 --> 00:16:14,666 a lot of our bills 825 00:16:14,666 --> 00:16:16,600 stand that are ready, 826 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:17,333 that we know 827 00:16:17,333 --> 00:16:18,933 we have public support for, 828 00:16:18,933 --> 00:16:20,233 and that we just 829 00:16:20,233 --> 00:16:22,400 aren't seeing movement on 830 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:23,300 when we have time 831 00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:24,133 to spend on 832 00:16:24,133 --> 00:16:25,400 another policy when. 833 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:26,500 Some go ahead. 834 00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:27,166 Do you 835 00:16:27,166 --> 00:16:28,266 view your responsibility 836 00:16:28,266 --> 00:16:28,966 as a legislature 837 00:16:28,966 --> 00:16:29,333 and a 838 00:16:29,533 --> 00:16:30,100 representative of 839 00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:31,200 your constituents? 840 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:32,566 Do you view that responsibility 841 00:16:32,566 --> 00:16:34,300 to enact those priorities, 842 00:16:34,300 --> 00:16:35,166 even if it means 843 00:16:35,166 --> 00:16:36,333 just a one term 844 00:16:36,333 --> 00:16:37,300 Democratic trifecta 845 00:16:37,300 --> 00:16:38,333 in the legislature? 846 00:16:38,333 --> 00:16:38,900 Or do you think it's 847 00:16:38,900 --> 00:16:39,366 more important 848 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,700 to maintain that trifecta, 849 00:16:41,700 --> 00:16:42,766 even if it means 850 00:16:42,766 --> 00:16:44,366 sort of moving those policy 851 00:16:44,366 --> 00:16:45,100 or those priorities 852 00:16:45,100 --> 00:16:45,500 a little bit 853 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:46,233 further down the line? Yeah. 854 00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:47,700 So this is a yes and. Right. 855 00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:49,066 Because that's the age 856 00:16:49,066 --> 00:16:49,733 old question 857 00:16:49,733 --> 00:16:51,533 about the philosophy of what 858 00:16:51,533 --> 00:16:53,200 the role of a legislature are. 859 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,100 And I came in wanting 860 00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:56,500 to represent my district 861 00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:58,933 in a way that modeled 862 00:16:58,933 --> 00:16:59,833 a though 863 00:16:59,833 --> 00:17:02,333 a true representative democracy 864 00:17:02,333 --> 00:17:03,633 that ensures the people 865 00:17:03,633 --> 00:17:05,266 most impacted by by 866 00:17:05,266 --> 00:17:06,233 the solutions 867 00:17:06,233 --> 00:17:07,833 are creating the solutions 868 00:17:07,833 --> 00:17:08,800 not just at the table, 869 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,433 not just submitting input. 870 00:17:10,433 --> 00:17:11,766 But I'm not the only one 871 00:17:11,766 --> 00:17:13,400 I came in with with teachers. 872 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:14,200 I came in with labor 873 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:15,033 organizers. 874 00:17:15,033 --> 00:17:15,233 You know, 875 00:17:15,766 --> 00:17:16,500 I came in with psychologists, 876 00:17:16,500 --> 00:17:17,200 a number of folks 877 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:17,966 who are used to doing 878 00:17:17,966 --> 00:17:18,800 direct service 879 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:19,500 and know that 880 00:17:19,500 --> 00:17:21,100 we find the wisdom 881 00:17:21,100 --> 00:17:22,400 to come up with the solutions 882 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:23,600 outside of ourselves. 883 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:25,000 But the reality is you 884 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,033 folks have been told 885 00:17:26,033 --> 00:17:27,233 in no uncertain terms 886 00:17:27,233 --> 00:17:28,066 that if they move on 887 00:17:28,066 --> 00:17:28,933 some of the stuff 888 00:17:28,933 --> 00:17:29,900 that you want, 889 00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:30,700 you could cost 890 00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:32,033 the D's control of the House. 891 00:17:32,033 --> 00:17:32,866 Have you heard that? 892 00:17:32,866 --> 00:17:34,033 I of course, 893 00:17:34,033 --> 00:17:35,133 I have absolutely heard that. 894 00:17:35,133 --> 00:17:36,133 I also have said. 895 00:17:36,133 --> 00:17:37,200 Do you agree with it? 896 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:38,333 No, because I've been 897 00:17:38,333 --> 00:17:38,900 in politics 898 00:17:38,900 --> 00:17:39,566 longer than just 899 00:17:39,566 --> 00:17:40,600 about everybody 900 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:41,900 in in my caucus. 901 00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:42,700 If you have people 902 00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:43,700 in swing districts 903 00:17:43,700 --> 00:17:44,866 that you force to vote yea 904 00:17:44,866 --> 00:17:45,800 or nay on something, 905 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,166 it could cost them them seat. 906 00:17:47,166 --> 00:17:48,066 You agree with that? 907 00:17:48,066 --> 00:17:49,366 Unless we do our due 908 00:17:49,366 --> 00:17:51,166 diligence policymaking. 909 00:17:51,166 --> 00:17:52,000 What's that? 910 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:52,766 Well, 911 00:17:52,766 --> 00:17:54,633 I mean, it's something I love, 912 00:17:54,633 --> 00:17:56,200 but it is as much 913 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:57,533 a part of the political process 914 00:17:57,533 --> 00:17:59,200 as actually pushing the button. 915 00:17:59,200 --> 00:17:59,766 Right 916 00:17:59,766 --> 00:18:00,633 as I'm working on 917 00:18:00,633 --> 00:18:01,666 housing legislation, 918 00:18:01,666 --> 00:18:02,766 I knew that I was going 919 00:18:02,766 --> 00:18:03,766 to need to take the summer 920 00:18:03,766 --> 00:18:04,500 in district period 921 00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:05,466 to not just check in 922 00:18:05,466 --> 00:18:06,633 with my constituency, 923 00:18:06,633 --> 00:18:07,533 but to also do 924 00:18:07,533 --> 00:18:08,900 the public education 925 00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:10,466 to ensure that people knew 926 00:18:10,466 --> 00:18:11,900 what the state of the housing 927 00:18:11,900 --> 00:18:13,200 crisis is right now, 928 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:14,766 what the best practices 929 00:18:14,766 --> 00:18:15,233 and proposed 930 00:18:15,433 --> 00:18:16,233 solutions are throughout 931 00:18:16,233 --> 00:18:16,766 the country, 932 00:18:16,766 --> 00:18:17,333 what's happening 933 00:18:17,333 --> 00:18:18,333 in other states. 934 00:18:18,333 --> 00:18:20,766 And to create that engagement, 935 00:18:20,766 --> 00:18:22,066 they would also increase 936 00:18:22,066 --> 00:18:23,600 the demand for our legislators. 937 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:24,533 So our legislators 938 00:18:24,533 --> 00:18:25,500 across the state knew 939 00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:26,233 they had support 940 00:18:26,233 --> 00:18:27,166 to pass the policies. 941 00:18:27,166 --> 00:18:28,533 I knew that we needed 942 00:18:28,533 --> 00:18:30,700 policy making has to do with 943 00:18:30,700 --> 00:18:31,833 not just that button, 944 00:18:31,833 --> 00:18:33,266 but also ensuring 945 00:18:33,266 --> 00:18:35,033 that you have already created 946 00:18:35,033 --> 00:18:36,833 the narrative draft, 947 00:18:36,833 --> 00:18:38,400 drafted the accurate 948 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:39,066 and true 949 00:18:39,066 --> 00:18:40,800 and transparent narrative 950 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:41,533 that will reflect 951 00:18:41,533 --> 00:18:42,366 where people are 952 00:18:42,366 --> 00:18:43,033 and the most 953 00:18:43,033 --> 00:18:44,133 effective solutions 954 00:18:44,133 --> 00:18:45,133 that we will need. 955 00:18:45,133 --> 00:18:46,600 The caucus has shown. 956 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:47,066 And then 957 00:18:47,333 --> 00:18:48,433 we hold on to our majority. 958 00:18:48,433 --> 00:18:49,700 Frankly, when we do 959 00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:50,533 what the people ask. 960 00:18:50,533 --> 00:18:52,066 But we do it in a smart, 961 00:18:52,066 --> 00:18:52,800 strategic way 962 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:54,200 that will retain those changes 963 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:55,200 because people understand 964 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:56,266 why they're happening. 965 00:18:56,266 --> 00:18:57,400 We retain our majority 966 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:58,033 because we're senior. 967 00:18:58,033 --> 00:18:59,000 Members of the caucus 968 00:18:59,000 --> 00:18:59,466 tell you that 969 00:18:59,700 --> 00:19:00,633 that's not going to work. 970 00:19:00,633 --> 00:19:02,666 You don't agree? 971 00:19:02,666 --> 00:19:04,400 Absolutely, because I 972 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:05,466 because I've done it 973 00:19:05,466 --> 00:19:06,933 and because I'm somebody 974 00:19:06,933 --> 00:19:07,633 who has had 975 00:19:07,633 --> 00:19:08,733 to make policy change 976 00:19:08,733 --> 00:19:09,433 under complete 977 00:19:09,433 --> 00:19:10,600 Republican control 978 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:11,033 because I'm 979 00:19:11,333 --> 00:19:12,766 one of those swing districts. 980 00:19:12,766 --> 00:19:14,200 I'm not in a swing district, 981 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,466 but I'm also not Ann Arbor. 982 00:19:15,466 --> 00:19:16,600 And yet 983 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:18,566 my policies as progressive 984 00:19:18,566 --> 00:19:19,200 as they are, 985 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:20,266 reflect exactly 986 00:19:20,266 --> 00:19:21,066 what my community 987 00:19:21,066 --> 00:19:23,000 is asking for every day. 988 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,333 So and to me, 989 00:19:24,333 --> 00:19:26,433 these are very basic things. 990 00:19:26,433 --> 00:19:27,300 As much as somebody 991 00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:28,533 might want to call me 992 00:19:28,533 --> 00:19:30,000 a hippie or whatever, 993 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:30,900 I don't know 994 00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:31,600 what all the words are 995 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:32,433 that are used about me 996 00:19:32,433 --> 00:19:34,200 at this point. Right? 997 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:35,366 We have to remember, 998 00:19:35,366 --> 00:19:36,066 and my background 999 00:19:36,066 --> 00:19:37,733 is partially in extremism. 1000 00:19:37,733 --> 00:19:38,933 We have to remember that 1001 00:19:38,933 --> 00:19:39,666 as things 1002 00:19:39,666 --> 00:19:41,600 get more extreme over here, 1003 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,033 it doesn't make the person 1004 00:19:43,033 --> 00:19:45,166 that is right here so extreme. 1005 00:19:45,166 --> 00:19:46,066 It doesn't make the person 1006 00:19:46,066 --> 00:19:47,200 who is right here 1007 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:48,300 that much more unreasonable 1008 00:19:48,300 --> 00:19:49,666 because it gets more stream 1009 00:19:49,666 --> 00:19:51,100 and extreme over here. 1010 00:19:51,100 --> 00:19:53,100 But the way we define it 1011 00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:55,166 within our understanding shifts 1012 00:19:55,166 --> 00:19:55,833 as we start 1013 00:19:55,833 --> 00:19:57,400 to see people acting out 1014 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:58,900 on either end. 1015 00:19:58,900 --> 00:20:00,166 Progressives aren't 1016 00:20:00,166 --> 00:20:01,766 not reasonable or 1017 00:20:01,766 --> 00:20:03,866 or not moderate progressives 1018 00:20:03,866 --> 00:20:04,700 at the very core. 1019 00:20:04,700 --> 00:20:05,566 Root to get back to 1020 00:20:05,566 --> 00:20:06,633 your definition, 1021 00:20:06,633 --> 00:20:07,333 are folks 1022 00:20:07,333 --> 00:20:08,666 who are trying to address 1023 00:20:08,666 --> 00:20:10,100 the daily struggle, 1024 00:20:10,100 --> 00:20:10,833 but in a way 1025 00:20:10,833 --> 00:20:12,966 that also gets to the root 1026 00:20:12,966 --> 00:20:14,633 of the systemic disparity 1027 00:20:14,633 --> 00:20:15,433 so that as we're 1028 00:20:15,433 --> 00:20:16,733 addressing the daily struggle, 1029 00:20:16,733 --> 00:20:17,766 we are not perpetuating. 1030 00:20:17,766 --> 00:20:18,733 You're describing right now 1031 00:20:18,733 --> 00:20:20,133 is Overton Window, right? 1032 00:20:20,133 --> 00:20:22,000 This idea of like 1033 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:23,400 what becomes normal 1034 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:24,100 and what doesn't. 1035 00:20:24,100 --> 00:20:25,533 But but in many respects, 1036 00:20:25,533 --> 00:20:26,133 I think what we're 1037 00:20:26,133 --> 00:20:26,900 talking about 1038 00:20:26,900 --> 00:20:28,166 is this idea 1039 00:20:28,166 --> 00:20:29,233 that that, you know, 1040 00:20:29,233 --> 00:20:30,366 for the first time, 1041 00:20:30,366 --> 00:20:31,700 Democrats are in power 1042 00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:32,566 for 40 years 1043 00:20:32,566 --> 00:20:33,966 and what are you willing 1044 00:20:33,966 --> 00:20:34,966 to give up? 1045 00:20:34,966 --> 00:20:35,433 These 1046 00:20:35,433 --> 00:20:35,600 I mean, 1047 00:20:36,133 --> 00:20:36,266 I get what you're saying, 1048 00:20:36,733 --> 00:20:36,833 that it's like, no, 1049 00:20:37,366 --> 00:20:37,600 if we push hard enough 1050 00:20:38,033 --> 00:20:38,666 and explain our message, 1051 00:20:38,666 --> 00:20:39,233 but we just know 1052 00:20:39,233 --> 00:20:39,766 there are people 1053 00:20:39,766 --> 00:20:40,500 that just aren't 1054 00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:41,066 going to believe 1055 00:20:41,066 --> 00:20:42,233 in that policy. 1056 00:20:42,233 --> 00:20:43,233 And I mean, that's 1057 00:20:43,233 --> 00:20:44,466 that's the basics 1058 00:20:44,466 --> 00:20:45,466 of governing and fundamental. 1059 00:20:45,466 --> 00:20:46,233 So I guess I'm curious 1060 00:20:46,233 --> 00:20:46,933 from your perspective, 1061 00:20:46,933 --> 00:20:48,400 can you understand 1062 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:49,333 where some of the other 1063 00:20:49,333 --> 00:20:49,900 Democrats are 1064 00:20:49,900 --> 00:20:50,533 and where Speaker 1065 00:20:50,533 --> 00:20:51,633 Tate is coming from 1066 00:20:51,633 --> 00:20:52,066 and where 1067 00:20:52,366 --> 00:20:54,000 their concern lies in terms 1068 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:54,800 of not wanting 1069 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,000 to push too hard? 1070 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:56,833 Do you understand that 1071 00:20:56,833 --> 00:20:58,500 sort of point of view? Yes. 1072 00:20:58,500 --> 00:20:59,600 We still have to 1073 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:00,933 prioritize policies. 1074 00:21:00,933 --> 00:21:02,833 We still have to figure out 1075 00:21:02,833 --> 00:21:04,600 what is actually feasible. 1076 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:05,833 I'm just arguing that 1077 00:21:05,833 --> 00:21:06,633 some of the things 1078 00:21:06,633 --> 00:21:07,866 that are being 1079 00:21:07,866 --> 00:21:09,166 are being considered are talked 1080 00:21:09,166 --> 00:21:09,366 about 1081 00:21:09,900 --> 00:21:10,800 as if they aren't feasible. 1082 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,533 We do have public support for 1083 00:21:12,533 --> 00:21:14,233 and we could be creating the 1084 00:21:14,233 --> 00:21:16,733 circumstances for success. 1085 00:21:16,733 --> 00:21:17,533 Do we have to 1086 00:21:17,533 --> 00:21:18,733 make sure that our 1087 00:21:18,733 --> 00:21:20,400 our more 1088 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,766 fragile districts are supported 1089 00:21:22,766 --> 00:21:23,900 and that we're doing extra work 1090 00:21:23,900 --> 00:21:24,533 to make sure 1091 00:21:24,533 --> 00:21:25,300 that people understand 1092 00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:27,300 why we're doing the focusing 1093 00:21:27,300 --> 00:21:28,200 on the policies that we are? 1094 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:29,166 Absolutely. 1095 00:21:29,166 --> 00:21:30,433 And also, 1096 00:21:30,433 --> 00:21:31,933 I would argue that 1097 00:21:31,933 --> 00:21:33,466 even in our rural areas, 1098 00:21:33,466 --> 00:21:34,700 even in our swing district 1099 00:21:34,700 --> 00:21:36,033 districts, the mentality 1100 00:21:36,033 --> 00:21:36,833 and the priorities 1101 00:21:36,833 --> 00:21:38,400 have shifted. 1102 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:39,433 And my district 1103 00:21:39,433 --> 00:21:40,133 has changed, too. 1104 00:21:40,133 --> 00:21:41,400 While the density 1105 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:42,166 of the population 1106 00:21:42,166 --> 00:21:43,100 is within Lansing, 1107 00:21:43,100 --> 00:21:44,666 most of the land 1108 00:21:44,666 --> 00:21:45,633 geography is in 1109 00:21:45,633 --> 00:21:46,866 the rural areas, 1110 00:21:46,866 --> 00:21:47,633 and I'm one of 1111 00:21:47,633 --> 00:21:49,033 our few legislators 1112 00:21:49,033 --> 00:21:49,733 that are 1113 00:21:49,733 --> 00:21:51,400 driving out to my rural area 1114 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:52,600 regularly to check in 1115 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,166 with a rural community 1116 00:21:54,166 --> 00:21:55,033 that is small enough 1117 00:21:55,033 --> 00:21:56,933 to not get revenue sharing, 1118 00:21:56,933 --> 00:21:57,800 but is 1119 00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:58,766 is possibly 1120 00:21:58,766 --> 00:21:59,566 one of the sites 1121 00:21:59,566 --> 00:22:02,300 of of a future huge 1122 00:22:02,300 --> 00:22:04,066 development project right 1123 00:22:04,066 --> 00:22:05,233 in Eagle Township. 1124 00:22:05,233 --> 00:22:06,966 And our constituencies, 1125 00:22:06,966 --> 00:22:07,966 regardless of party, 1126 00:22:07,966 --> 00:22:08,766 they want to be heard. 1127 00:22:08,766 --> 00:22:09,500 They want to see that 1128 00:22:09,500 --> 00:22:11,066 we're transparent and ethical. 1129 00:22:11,066 --> 00:22:11,733 They want to see that 1130 00:22:11,733 --> 00:22:13,100 we care about them 1131 00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:15,133 and and that honestly, 1132 00:22:15,133 --> 00:22:16,133 in my conversations, 1133 00:22:16,133 --> 00:22:17,233 regardless of where you are on 1134 00:22:17,233 --> 00:22:17,866 the spectrum, 1135 00:22:17,866 --> 00:22:19,100 is making a difference. 1136 00:22:19,100 --> 00:22:20,833 One of the most ambitious, 1137 00:22:20,833 --> 00:22:21,700 I think, policies, 1138 00:22:21,700 --> 00:22:22,333 because you referred 1139 00:22:22,333 --> 00:22:23,066 to the circumstances 1140 00:22:23,066 --> 00:22:23,666 for success 1141 00:22:23,666 --> 00:22:24,433 in some of the most 1142 00:22:24,433 --> 00:22:25,266 ambitious policies 1143 00:22:25,266 --> 00:22:25,600 that we've heard 1144 00:22:25,933 --> 00:22:26,933 proposed by progressives 1145 00:22:26,933 --> 00:22:28,066 in this legislature 1146 00:22:28,066 --> 00:22:29,266 necessitate 1147 00:22:29,266 --> 00:22:30,466 the raising of revenue 1148 00:22:30,466 --> 00:22:31,933 by state government. 1149 00:22:31,933 --> 00:22:33,133 Does this mean that, you know, 1150 00:22:33,133 --> 00:22:34,266 people are going to push 1151 00:22:34,266 --> 00:22:35,100 for tax increases 1152 00:22:35,100 --> 00:22:35,800 because the last time 1153 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:36,633 Democrats had a trifecta, 1154 00:22:36,633 --> 00:22:37,100 you know, 1155 00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:38,366 there was a tax increase 1156 00:22:38,366 --> 00:22:38,866 and then 1157 00:22:39,066 --> 00:22:39,933 legislators were recalled 1158 00:22:39,933 --> 00:22:41,166 and they lost that trifecta. 1159 00:22:41,166 --> 00:22:41,533 Yeah, well, 1160 00:22:41,866 --> 00:22:43,966 I think that any responsible 1161 00:22:43,966 --> 00:22:45,966 legislator also needs to 1162 00:22:45,966 --> 00:22:46,566 be able 1163 00:22:46,566 --> 00:22:47,766 to fund any project 1164 00:22:47,766 --> 00:22:48,566 that we put out 1165 00:22:48,566 --> 00:22:50,400 there, out on the table. 1166 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,166 And when we suggest 1167 00:22:52,166 --> 00:22:53,600 that increasing revenue 1168 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,366 is not something 1169 00:22:55,366 --> 00:22:56,100 that would be 1170 00:22:56,100 --> 00:22:58,666 positive or necessary. 1171 00:22:58,666 --> 00:22:59,866 That's a conversation we've 1172 00:22:59,866 --> 00:23:00,666 been avoiding 1173 00:23:00,666 --> 00:23:02,166 because we aren't talking about 1174 00:23:02,166 --> 00:23:02,933 the realism 1175 00:23:02,933 --> 00:23:04,200 of what is government. 1176 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,166 So I personally am fine 1177 00:23:06,166 --> 00:23:07,833 with exploring creative ways 1178 00:23:07,833 --> 00:23:09,566 to increase revenue, 1179 00:23:09,566 --> 00:23:10,766 but there are a number of ways 1180 00:23:10,766 --> 00:23:11,433 we can do that 1181 00:23:11,433 --> 00:23:12,200 so that we aren't 1182 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:13,466 putting the burden on the folks 1183 00:23:13,466 --> 00:23:15,100 who are struggling the most. 1184 00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:15,533 Does that mean 1185 00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:16,600 you think we should be changing 1186 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:17,633 our income tax bracket? 1187 00:23:17,633 --> 00:23:18,566 Given Michigan's 1188 00:23:18,566 --> 00:23:19,900 flat income tax, 1189 00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:20,500 We should be changing 1190 00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:21,400 the gradation of that. 1191 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,666 I think that we should be open 1192 00:23:23,666 --> 00:23:24,766 to having conversations 1193 00:23:24,766 --> 00:23:26,733 about so many different things. 1194 00:23:26,733 --> 00:23:27,433 I'm not going to make 1195 00:23:27,433 --> 00:23:28,166 a recommendation 1196 00:23:28,166 --> 00:23:29,633 for any particular way 1197 00:23:29,633 --> 00:23:31,066 to raise revenue at this point, 1198 00:23:31,066 --> 00:23:32,566 but I do think that it is not 1199 00:23:32,566 --> 00:23:34,666 a dirty, ugly conversation. 1200 00:23:34,666 --> 00:23:35,566 If it's not a dirty 1201 00:23:35,566 --> 00:23:36,433 ongoing conversation. 1202 00:23:36,433 --> 00:23:37,433 Let's talk about it. 1203 00:23:37,433 --> 00:23:37,900 Yeah, Well, 1204 00:23:37,900 --> 00:23:39,066 I would say 1205 00:23:39,066 --> 00:23:40,133 Brooks has raised 1206 00:23:40,133 --> 00:23:41,033 several times 1207 00:23:41,033 --> 00:23:42,466 publicly and privately, 1208 00:23:42,466 --> 00:23:43,733 looking at graduated 1209 00:23:43,733 --> 00:23:45,666 income taxes, 1210 00:23:45,666 --> 00:23:48,766 but looking at who is 1211 00:23:48,766 --> 00:23:49,366 who is 1212 00:23:49,366 --> 00:23:50,833 making the most money, 1213 00:23:50,833 --> 00:23:51,833 benefiting from 1214 00:23:51,833 --> 00:23:54,033 from different programs 1215 00:23:54,033 --> 00:23:56,600 where the the burden is 1216 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,166 and whether we are burdening 1217 00:23:58,166 --> 00:23:59,266 the folks that are struggling 1218 00:23:59,266 --> 00:24:00,700 the most is necessary 1219 00:24:00,700 --> 00:24:01,433 for figuring out 1220 00:24:01,433 --> 00:24:03,900 where we find our funding. 1221 00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:04,333 As you're 1222 00:24:04,333 --> 00:24:04,700 looking at 1223 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:05,933 progressive priorities, 1224 00:24:05,933 --> 00:24:07,366 like what did you self-edit off 1225 00:24:07,366 --> 00:24:07,833 the list? 1226 00:24:07,833 --> 00:24:08,033 Like, 1227 00:24:08,633 --> 00:24:09,400 what's something that you said? 1228 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:09,700 You know, 1229 00:24:09,933 --> 00:24:10,466 this is a policy 1230 00:24:10,466 --> 00:24:11,300 that I believe in 1231 00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:12,233 that would be really great, 1232 00:24:12,233 --> 00:24:13,366 but this is the third rail 1233 00:24:13,366 --> 00:24:14,133 for right now. 1234 00:24:14,133 --> 00:24:14,600 Okay. 1235 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:15,733 So instantly, 1236 00:24:15,733 --> 00:24:15,933 there are 1237 00:24:16,433 --> 00:24:17,000 some things come to mind. 1238 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:17,466 I don't know that 1239 00:24:17,766 --> 00:24:19,000 I would put that on the table, 1240 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,900 but but absolutely, 1241 00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:22,433 I as as a progressive 1242 00:24:22,433 --> 00:24:23,966 but also somebody who has done 1243 00:24:23,966 --> 00:24:26,133 lobbying and and 1244 00:24:26,133 --> 00:24:27,700 and been a legislative staffer, 1245 00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:28,900 there are policies 1246 00:24:28,900 --> 00:24:29,466 that are just going to 1247 00:24:29,466 --> 00:24:30,600 sit in a folder 1248 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:31,433 while I have 1249 00:24:31,433 --> 00:24:32,466 conversations over, 1250 00:24:32,466 --> 00:24:34,766 I don't know, 2 to 12 years. 1251 00:24:34,766 --> 00:24:39,766 And one has to do with how we 1252 00:24:39,766 --> 00:24:42,666 manage and regulate sex work. 1253 00:24:42,666 --> 00:24:43,766 Am I introducing 1254 00:24:43,766 --> 00:24:44,800 any legislation 1255 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:45,600 about sex work right 1256 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:46,000 the second. 1257 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,100 No, no, not at all. 1258 00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:48,533 Is it 1259 00:24:48,533 --> 00:24:48,866 is it 1260 00:24:49,233 --> 00:24:49,933 because it doesn't matter. 1261 00:24:49,933 --> 00:24:51,133 It's not an area of policy 1262 00:24:51,133 --> 00:24:53,266 that could make people safer, 1263 00:24:53,266 --> 00:24:54,033 you know, all of these 1264 00:24:54,033 --> 00:24:55,166 different things. 1265 00:24:55,166 --> 00:24:56,733 But I also acknowledge 1266 00:24:56,733 --> 00:24:58,133 that it will take 1267 00:24:58,133 --> 00:24:59,766 the due diligence 1268 00:24:59,766 --> 00:25:00,500 to make sure 1269 00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:01,900 that people really understand 1270 00:25:01,900 --> 00:25:03,933 its contrast to other issues, 1271 00:25:03,933 --> 00:25:05,066 why it's necessary, 1272 00:25:05,066 --> 00:25:06,366 and that it's going to produce 1273 00:25:06,366 --> 00:25:07,500 a knee jerk response 1274 00:25:07,500 --> 00:25:08,933 in people who don't understand. 1275 00:25:08,933 --> 00:25:09,466 This. 1276 00:25:09,466 --> 00:25:10,166 Overton Window 1277 00:25:10,166 --> 00:25:11,233 that you'd like to shift. 1278 00:25:11,233 --> 00:25:12,766 What's your top priority? 1279 00:25:12,766 --> 00:25:13,533 Honestly, it 1280 00:25:13,533 --> 00:25:14,866 it really comes down 1281 00:25:14,866 --> 00:25:16,033 to are most essential. 1282 00:25:16,033 --> 00:25:17,100 So housing, I'm 1283 00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:17,900 leaving on all of the 1284 00:25:17,900 --> 00:25:19,366 housing legislation in the 1285 00:25:19,366 --> 00:25:20,666 in the legislature 1286 00:25:20,666 --> 00:25:22,566 and while I have a bill 1287 00:25:22,566 --> 00:25:23,966 which is the homeless 1288 00:25:23,966 --> 00:25:24,700 bill of Rights 1289 00:25:24,700 --> 00:25:25,933 to decriminalize homelessness 1290 00:25:25,933 --> 00:25:27,866 and that sounds like 1291 00:25:27,866 --> 00:25:29,533 an ambitious bill 1292 00:25:29,533 --> 00:25:31,033 and I have that in order 1293 00:25:31,033 --> 00:25:32,133 to set the foundation 1294 00:25:32,133 --> 00:25:33,266 for how we are 1295 00:25:33,266 --> 00:25:33,900 treating our 1296 00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:34,733 unhoused neighbors, 1297 00:25:34,733 --> 00:25:36,166 because I acknowledge 1298 00:25:36,166 --> 00:25:36,733 that we're in 1299 00:25:36,733 --> 00:25:37,500 a housing shortage 1300 00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:38,766 and we need to be building 1301 00:25:38,766 --> 00:25:39,533 more affordable 1302 00:25:39,533 --> 00:25:40,500 and middle income housing. 1303 00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:41,300 And that doesn't 1304 00:25:41,300 --> 00:25:42,100 we don't see the 1305 00:25:42,100 --> 00:25:43,233 results of that. 1306 00:25:43,233 --> 00:25:44,566 Very quickly, before we close, 1307 00:25:44,566 --> 00:25:45,200 have you folks 1308 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:45,933 talked about that 1309 00:25:45,933 --> 00:25:47,300 you do have leverage. 1310 00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:48,600 You can take all of your votes 1311 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:49,433 and go to the speaker 1312 00:25:49,433 --> 00:25:50,833 and say if we don't get this, 1313 00:25:50,833 --> 00:25:52,033 you don't get our votes. 1314 00:25:52,033 --> 00:25:52,833 Have you tried that 1315 00:25:52,833 --> 00:25:56,100 yet or will you? Yes or no? 1316 00:25:56,100 --> 00:25:58,266 So I tell everybody 1317 00:25:58,266 --> 00:26:00,566 no where your power is nowhere. 1318 00:26:00,566 --> 00:26:01,600 Your power is no 1319 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:02,566 when to use it. 1320 00:26:02,566 --> 00:26:03,800 And you don't have to do that 1321 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,266 in a man manipulative way. 1322 00:26:05,266 --> 00:26:06,066 Absolutely. 1323 00:26:06,066 --> 00:26:07,766 A 56 person 1324 00:26:07,766 --> 00:26:09,000 majority means 1325 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,933 that we need every vote. 1326 00:26:10,933 --> 00:26:12,400 And we and I firmly believe 1327 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,100 we don't have to negotiate away 1328 00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:14,800 our values 1329 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,400 in order to get that result. 1330 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,166 But yes, absolutely. 1331 00:26:18,166 --> 00:26:18,933 I think that people 1332 00:26:18,933 --> 00:26:19,966 should occasionally 1333 00:26:19,966 --> 00:26:20,766 hold their votes 1334 00:26:20,766 --> 00:26:21,333 to make sure 1335 00:26:21,333 --> 00:26:22,100 that we are creating 1336 00:26:22,100 --> 00:26:23,300 public policy that helps us. 1337 00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:24,466 Thanks for doing our program. 1338 00:26:24,466 --> 00:26:25,233 It's good to see you. 1339 00:26:25,233 --> 00:26:26,100 Good to see. You. Take care. 1340 00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:26,833 See you next week. 1341 00:26:26,833 --> 00:26:31,200 For more off the record. 1342 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:32,133 Production of Off 1343 00:26:32,133 --> 00:26:33,466 the Record is made possible 1344 00:26:33,466 --> 00:26:34,733 in part by 1345 00:26:34,733 --> 00:26:36,633 Martin Waymire, a full service 1346 00:26:36,633 --> 00:26:38,666 strategic communications agency 1347 00:26:38,666 --> 00:26:39,800 partnering with clients 1348 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,000 through public relations, 1349 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,566 digital marketing and public 1350 00:26:42,566 --> 00:26:43,933 policy engagement. 1351 00:26:43,933 --> 00:26:44,200 Learn 1352 00:26:44,633 --> 00:26:47,366 more at martinwaymire.com. 1353 00:26:47,366 --> 00:26:48,566 For more Off the Record, 1354 00:26:48,566 --> 00:26:51,100 visit wkar.org. 1355 00:26:51,100 --> 00:26:51,733 Michigan public 1356 00:26:51,733 --> 00:26:52,700 television stations 1357 00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:53,433 have contributed 1358 00:26:53,433 --> 00:26:54,500 to the production costs 1359 00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:55,400 of Off the Record.