ON THE OTR PANEL THIS WEEK, WE
HAVE KATIE GRAY AND BILL

BALLENGER.
ALONG WITH KYLE MEL LYNN.

A POSSIBLE NEW PLAN FOR THE
ROADS AND SCHOOLS.

THE BOLINGER GRAND JURY RULING
IS ON.

AND LATER ON, TEA PARTY MEMBER
TODD COURSER IS HERE, LEADING

THE FIGHT AGAINST THE GOVERNORS
MEDICAID EXPANSION BILL.

ALL THIS AND MORE COMING UP
RIGHT NOW ON "OFF THE RECORD."

¶[MUSIC]
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>> AND NOW THIS EDITION OF "OFF
THE RECORD" WITH JIM.

>> THANK YOU, AND WELCOME TO OFF
THE RECORD.

WELL, WE HAVE A POTENTIAL
UNDERSCORE POTENTIAL SOLUTION TO

THE SCHOOL PROBLEM.
>> DO YOU THINK, LET'S TAKE A

LOOK.
>> THE STATE HAS A SALES TAX ON

GASOLINE THAT GENERATES ONE
POINTED $2 BILLION BUT

SURPRISINGLY NONE OF THAT GOES
INTO ROAD REPAIRS.

INSTEAD IT GOES TO SCHOOLS AND
CITIES.

THE SENATOR REPUBLICAN LEADER
CONFIRMS THAT THEY ARE LOOKING

AT EARMARKING THE TAX
EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE ROADS.

>> I AM IN FAVOR OF TAKING A
LOOK AT FIXING THAT.

>> .
YOU SAID THAT $1.2 BILLION TO

THE ROADS WHAT HAPPENS TO THE
SCHOOLS?

THE SENATE DEMOCRATIC LEADSER
LOOKING AT RAISING THE STATE

SALES TAX BY MORE THAN A PENNY,
SO THAT MORE MONEY WILL GO TO

KIDS EDUCATION.
>> IF YOU WANT TO ASK PEOPLE TO

MAKE A GREATER SACRIFICE, THEY
HAVE TO FEEL LIKE IT IS

WORTHWHILE.
>> THE ONE PAY DOESN'T GET YOU

THERE.
>> NO.

>> SHOULD WE PUT ON THE BALLOT
AT LEAST A $1 PENNY INCREASE TO

MAKE UP THE LOST REVENUE.
>> I THINK IT IS A REASONABLE

THING TO ASK THE PENNY OF THE
STATE OF MICHIGAN WHAT THEY

WOULD LIKE TO DO WITH THIS.
>> THEY SAY THEY CAN'T GET ALL

THIS PUT TOGETHER FOR A
STATEWIDE VOTE IN NOVEMBER, BUT

MAYBE NEXT MAY.
>> MAYBE NEXT, OR MAYBE NOT.

WHAT IS YOUR READ ON THIS?
>> THAT WILL PROBABLY BE NEXT

YEAR IF IT HAPPENS AT ALL.
>> BOLINGER WAS MAKING IT SOUND

LIKE THEY STILL HAVE A SHOT IN
NOVEMBER.

>> THERE IS SO MUCH DISCUSSION
THAT HAS TO BE HAD ON IT.

THEY HAVE BEEN PLAYIN PLAYING WS
MEDICAID EXPANSION FOR HOW LONG

NOW, AND THIS IS A BIG DEAL TOO.
SO I DON'T THINK IT IS GOING TO

HAPPEN.
>> ON THE SHOT CLOCK IS GOING TO

RUN OUT ON THEM, IS WHAT IS
GOING TO HAPPEN.

THEY HAVE IS -- THEY GOT UNTIL
SEPTEMBER 6TH TO GET SOMETHING

IN THE DEPARTMENT OF ELECTIONS
AND THAT MEANS IT WOULD HAVE TO

PASS THE HOUSE, AND THE SENATE,
AND OF COURSE WE HAVE RASH SHA

SHONA IN THE MIX, SO THAT'S TWO
DAYS.

THEY DON'T HAVE COUNTS THEY
DON'T HAVE A TIME PROPOSAL.

IT IS A GOOD IDEA.
I CAN SEE WHERE BOTH SIDES ARE

TRYING TO GO WITH THIS, BUT
NOBODY HAS ANYTHING CONCRETE

YET.
>> THE BEAUTY OF THE PLAN, IS A

COLLECTIVE 1.2 BILLION, WHICH
THE STATE IS TAKING IN RIGHT

NOW.
>> RIGHT.

>> EARMARK IT FOR THE LAWS AND
THEY HAVE THE NUMBER WOULD HAVE

HAVING TO VOTE FOR A TAX HIKE,
RIGHT.

>> NO.
>> THIS IS THE OLD BAIT AND

SWITCH.
THE VOTERS WILL SEE THROUGH THIS

AND THEY WON'T LIKE IT.
IF THIS IS THEIR PLAN, I DON'T

CARE WHEN, THIS IS A LOSER BIG
TIME.

>> WRONG.
>> IF IT GETS ON THE BALLOT IT

IS TOAST.
>> WOW.

>> IF YOU PUT EDUCATION IN THE
MIX, AND YOU PLEDGING YOU ARE

GOING TO DO SOMETHING
CONSTRUCTIVE, THE POINT I HAVE

BEEN TOLD IS THAT IT DOES
BETTER.

I THINK THE LAST ELECTION SHOWED
IN THE LOCAL MUNICIPALITY,

RAISING MONEY FOR ROADS WAS A
LOSER, BUT EDUCATION IS

SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
>> WHAT HE SAID.

IT IS A DISASTER THAT'S WHY THEY
CAN'T GET THE ROADS FOR IT.

MAY O AUGUST EITHER.
>> WHY DON'T THEY PURSUE THIS IF

THEY AREN'T GOING TO GET
ANYWHERE.

>> THE GOVERNOR IS PUTTING
PRESSURE ON THEM, BECAUSE THEY

DO WANT TO DO SOMETHING, WE HAVE
BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT ALL YEAR.

THIS JUST HAPPENS TO BE A
TURKEY.

>> AND IT ISN'T EVEN
THANKSGIVING.

HEY, WE ARE LETTING YOU DO IT.
>> LISTEN.

>> IT IS GOING TO BE ON THE
BALLOTED NEXT AUGUST, CAN YOU

IMAGINE BE A REPUBLICAN RUNNING
FOR A RENOMINATION.

>> LATER WHEN NOBODY SHOWS UP,
WHEN KURT SHOWS UP, THE

TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION WILL
SIGN UP AND THE MEA WILL SIGN

UP.
>> I AGREE IF THEY ARE GOING TO

DO IT THE SOONER THE BETTER.
GET THIS DONE IN THE YEAR BEFORE

THE ELECTION YEAR.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME.

IF THEY ARE GOING TO DO IT AGAIN
THAN ANY OTHER TIME, THAT'S WHEN

THE SCHOOL BOND ELECTIONS ARE
UP, BECAUSE THE SCHOOL PEOPLE

HAVE IT FIGURES OUT.
MAY IS A GREAT TIME TO DO IT, I

THINK THE ISSUE IS GETTING THE
DEMOCRATS AND THE REPUBLICANS TO

AGREE TO SOMETHING, HAVING ONE
SIDE OR THE OTHER GO FIRST,

NOBODY WANTS TO GO FIRST,
BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT PEOPLE

HUNG OUT TO DRY.
IT IS GETTING THEM TO JUMP

TOGETHER, AND THAT'S BEEN A
PROBLEM.

>> I THINK HE IS REFERRING TO
GRETCHEN WHITMER, ASKING FOR TOO

MUCH.
>> .

YOU TANGLES $500 MILLION EXTRA
MONEY, YOU THINK THEY ARE GOING

TO SAY HEY, WE DON'T WANT TO
PLAY.

>> WRONG.
>> IF THEY ARE MANAGING A PUSH

BACK, ALL THE PEOPLE THAT DON'T
WANT THE GAS TAX HIKE.

>> THEY AREN'T GETTING ONE.
THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT, IT IS

DIVERTING THE MONEY FROM THE
SALES TAX, AND REPLACING IT WITH

NEW MONEY FOR EDUCATION.
IT IS THE OLD SHIFT SHAFT.

>> THAT WILL BE A GUARANTEE THAT
THE MONEY IS GOING TO GO TO THE

SCHOOL.
>> YES.

>> AND IT IS GOING TO GO TO THE
CITIES.

>> NOW IT IS DOOMED.
>> YEP.

>> SO OFTEN THAT MONEY GETS
SHIFTED SOMEPLACE ELSE.

>> TO ANSWER THE PERSPECTIVE,
LET'S ASSUME THEY PUT IT ON THE

BALLOT AND IT FAILS.
NOW WHAT?

THEY HAVE NADA, SO THEY HAVE TO
GO TO THE BACK UP PLAN, LIKE

THEY DID ON PROPOSAL EIGHT, KNEW
THEY AREN'T GOING TO DO THE

INCOME TAX, BUT THERE NEEDS TO
BE A FALL BACK.

>> WELL, THERE NEEDS TO BE A
FALL BACK, BECAUSE THEY NEED TO

DO SOMETHING.
>> OTHERWISE YOU HAVE NADA.

THE FALL BACK IN PROPOSAL A THAT
WAS A CUT IN SPENDING OVERALL.

THAT'S WHAT WE ARE TALKING
ABOUT.

>> $1 MILLION ANNUALLY IS CUT
OUT.

THIS IS AN INCREASE.
THIS IS A 1 CENTS INCREASE.

>> THEY AREN'T AFRAID OF THAT.
>> IF THEY HAVE A PUSH BACK FROM

PEOPLE THE THINK THE TRUCK
INDUSTRY, THEY ARE THE ONES

RIPPING UP THE ROADS.
THAT THE STANDARDS NEED TO BE

BETTER, SO THE ROADS DON'T NEED
TO BE REPAID EVERY TEN YEARS SO

THERE IS A LOT OF PUSH BACK ON
THAT.

>> IF HIGHER EDUCATION COMES
INTO THE MIX, SHE WANTS TO GIVE

A LOT OF MONEY TO KID WHOSE ARE
GOING INTO THE SCHOOL FOR HIGHER

EDUCATION, AND THAT'S NOT
SOMETHING HE IS OPPOSED TO.

>> POLITICS IS THE ART OF THE
POSSIBLE, WILLIAM.

AND THIS IS THE ONLY THING THEY
HAVE -- I'M TRYING TO GET YOU

ONBOARD HERE.
>> I'M SORRY.

I AM A HOLD OUT.
>> OKAY.

>> I AM NOT SURE SHE IS ONBOARD
EITHER.

>> THERE YOU GO.
>> I NEVER SAID I THOUGHT IT

WOULD GET ON THE BALLOT.
>> OH.

>> TURN OFF THE LIGHTS, FOLKS.
>> I WANT TO MOVE MY RHETORIC.

>> YOU ALWAYS DO THAT.
>> A SOURCE TOLD ME YESTERDAY,

30%.
>> SO THAT'S AS GOOD AS GOLD.

>> IN THIS CASE, 30% YOU CAN
BUILD ON.

>> THE LEADERSHIP AGAIN WHICH WE
HAVE SAID ALL ALONG, TALKING

ABOUT THE STATE OF THE STATE, IF
YOU CAN'T FUND THIS PUPPY OFF,

WHAT.
>> YOU CAN'T GET ANYTHING DONE.

>> NO, I DON'T THINK THAT'S
TRUE.

WAYLA, CHASE BULGER IS HOME
FREE.

>> YEAH.
>> OBVIOUSLY STILL HAS SOME

PUBLIC RELATIONS TO DO.
>> THREE MONTHS AGO NOBODY

REMEMBERS THE STORY.
>> PROBABLY SO.

HE IS STILL REALLY YOUNG.
DOESN'T HAVE A SENSE OF WHO HE

CAN RUN FOR.
HE ALWAYS CHALLENGES A MORN FOR

CONGRESS, BUT HE AND A MORN ARE
KIND OF OUR FRIENDS AND I DON'T

SEE THAT HAPPENING EITHER.
SO HE CAN WAIT THIS OUT FOR A

WHILE.
HE OWNS HIS OWN BUSINESS, AND

THEN HE COMES BACK IN FOUR
YEARS.

>> HE SAID I MADE A MISTAKE.
HE DID NOTHING CRIMINAL, NEXT

QUESTION.
>> WELL, THE OTHER QUESTION IS

WHAT HAPPENED.
DOES HE RUN AGAIN FOR OFFICE.

>> WOULDN'T THAT BE FUN.
>> HE IS THREATENING TO.

>> WHY IS IT A THREAT?
>> I MAYBE WOULDN'T USE THE WORD

THREAT, HE IS SUGGESTING HE
MIGHT, OR HOWLED CAN I GET BACK

IN THE RING, LET'S PUT IT THAT
WAY.

>> IF YOU ARE ADVISING HIM, I
THINK SCHMIDT IS A TOAST ANYWAY.

THAT'S TWO TOASTS IN ONE SHOW.
>> EXACTLY.

AND BULGER IS JUST AN ABSENCE OF
A NEGATIVE, THIS VERDICT.

IT'S JUST GOING TO SAY -- HE
WILL BE ABLE TO SAY OKAY, I WAS

FOUND NOT GUILTY, THERE WAS
NOTHING THERE, EVERYBODY SAID

SO, ETC.
BUT THAT DOES HELP HIM RUN?

>> NO.
>> IF HE HAS BEEN INDICTED.

>> YEAH.
>> CONGRESS ASIDE,.

>> .
>> IN AN ERA OF TERM LIMITS YOU

ARE OUT OF OFFICE TWO TO FOUR
YEARS AND YOU DON'T HAVE THINGS

TO RUN FOR, YOU ARE IN TROUBLE.
>> WHAT BOTHERS ME, IS THAT ALL

OF THIS STUFF, ALL OF THIS WORK,
AND YOU CAN'T LOOK AT IT.

>> WELL --
>> SEALED AND SENT TO SOME

COURT.
>> THAT IS THE GRAND JURY LAW,

THE ONE PERSON GRAND JURY LAW,
AND IT PROBABLY UNFORTUNATE, AND

IT IS JUST TOO BAD THAT THERE
WAS ONE APPOINTED IN THE FIRST

PLACE.
IT WAS A TERRIBLE, DECISION, I

THINK.
>> TO --

>> TO GO TO A ONE PERSON PANEL.
>> WHY.

>> BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENED LAST
WEEK WAS PREDICTABLE.

>> ETCH IF SHE HAS COME ONE A
FINDING THAT SHE THOUGHT SHE

WOULD HAVE HAD TO FIND A
PROSECUTOR TO TAKE ACTION.

>> THEY HAVE ALREADY SAID HE
ISN'T GUILTY.

>> LET'S LOOK AT THIS ONE LITTLE
PIECE.

THEY WERE MIDSTREAM IN THEIR
INVESTIGATION, AND IT WAS CUT

SHORT.
MIKE COX, KIRKPATRICK.

THE STATE POLICE WANTS TO
CONTINUE.

IN FACT, IN THE KWAN CASE THEY
DIDN'T DO THAT.

CHECK IN ON THIS, KATHY.
>> WELL, IT DID GET CUT SHORT,

AND SENT TO A GRAND JURY.
WE HAD SEEN A LOT OF THE STUFF

THAT THE THE STATE POLICE HAD
INVESTIGATE SOD THE EMAILS WERE

OUT THERE, THE TELEPHONE RECORDS
WERE OUT THERE.

THE TEXT MESSAGES.
BUT STILL, HOW MUCH TESTIMONY

DID SHE TAKE?
>> AND YOU KNOW WHAT, THERE WAS

STILL SOME QUESTIONS.
I THOUGHT MARK BREWER AND

GRETCHEN BROUGHT THE REPORT FOR
IT.

THEY WANTED TO KNOW -- AND THERE
WAS UNANSWERED QUESTION AS TO

WHO GOT THIS INVOLVED IN THE
FIST PLACE, AND THEY DID KNOW

THAT HE DIDN'T RESIDE IN THE
DISTRICT FOR WHICH YOU FILED.

THAT WAS A QUESTION THAT REALLY
WASN'T ANSWERED I THINK UNTIL

LAST WEEK.
>> THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO

CRIMINALIZE POLITICAL BEHAVIOR.
SCHMIDT AND BULGER ALREADY PAID

A PENALTY LAST YEAR, IN IN SOME
WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.

>> JUST FOR THE RECORD TO SHOW I
TALKED TO THE JUDGE, ASKED HER

TO DO THE SHOW, AND SHE
RESPECTFULLY SAID I CAN'T.

BUT THIS NEXT GENTLEMEN, CAN.
>> A CONSERVATIVE TEA PARTY

REPUBLICAN THAT CAME WITHIN 85
VOTES OF BECOMING THE NEXT PARTY

CHAIR.
HE HAS RUN FOR THE MICHIGAN

HOUSE AND SENATE, AND MOST
RECENTLY FOR THE STATE BOARD OF

EDUCATION.
>> .

>> .
>> AND HOLD AS LAW DEGREE.

HE IS LEADING THE CHARGE AGAINST
THE MEDICAID EXPANSION PLAN.

>> WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.
KYLE HAS THE FIST QUESTION.

>> COMMAND SINCE THEN YOU HAVE
STAYED ACTIVE BY EMAILING

SUPPORTERS OR LIKE MINDED PEOPLE
YOUR POSITIONS ON THINGS THAT

ARE GOING ON HERE IN THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY.

JUST RECENTLY, YOU HAD A CALL TO
ARMS THAT FOLKED SHOULD BE

CALLING THEIR REPUBLICAN
SENATORS AND TELLING THEM TO

VOTE KNOW ON MEDICATION
EXPANSION.

WHY ARE YOU CONTINUING THIS
EFFORT, AND IS THERE SOMETHING

BIGGER AND BROADER YOU ARE
RUNNING FOR?

>> I APPRECIATE YOU HAVING ME
TODAY.

I THINK SINCE THE CHAIR RACE, I
HAD A LOT OF FRIENDS BEFORE THE

CHAIR RACE, LAST FEBRUARY, AND I
THINK WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS

THERE'S A MOMENT THAT'S
OCCURRED, AND IT REALLY HAS LESS

TO DO WITH ME THAN IT DOES WITH
THE MOVEMENT.

I JUST NEED TO BE THE VOICE.
HUMBLING TO EVEN HAVE THE

OPPORTUNITY TO COME HERE AND
SPEAK TODAY.

WITH YOU FOLKS, BUT I THINK WHAT
IS HAPPENING IS THAT OUT THERE,

AMONG THE BASE OF THE FIELD, IT
FEELS LIKE A SEPARATION FROM

THIS SORT OF OLD YARD
ESTABLISHMENT, THAT HAS RUN THE

PARTY, AND THEY THEMSELVESES ARE
NOW BECOME MORE COURAGEOUS, AND

MORE CONFIDENT THAT THEY CAN
TAKE OVER THE PARTY.

AND SO YOU ARE SEEING SOME OF
THAT HAPPENING.

MYSELF, I AM JUST VOICING WHAT
IS REALLY ALREADY OUT THERE.

>> SO THE GOAL IS TO TAKE OTHER
THE PARTY?

>> I THINK THE IDEA IS THAT
RIGHT NOW, THERE'S BEEN THIS

SEPARATION BETWEEN THE BASE,
WHICH CLEARLY IS THE AREA THAT

SUPPORTED ME, WE HAD THIS VERY
CONSERVATIVE LIBERTY MINDED

FREEDOM LOVING TEA PARTY,
LIBERTARIAN COALITION, AND THEN

SOME OTHER PEOPLE AS WELL, THAT
SUPPORTED ME.

AND I THINK THAT WAS BECAUSE
REALLY THEY FEEL LIKE THE

ESTABLISHMENT OF THE PARTY, DOES
NOT REALLY -- IT'S NOT REALLY

COMMITTED TO CONSERVATIVISM.
SO THE IDEA IS THAT THEY

THEMSELVES ARE TIRED OF PUTTING
IN ALL THE HOURS AND THE TIME,

AND ALL OF THIS ENERGY, ONLY TO
SORT OF BE DISREGARDED WHEN IT

COMES TO THE PARTY PLATFORM, AND
ADVANCING WHAT THEY FEEL

CONSERVATIVISM FOR THE BASE, IS
CONVICTION.

THEY FEEL THAT THE LEADERSHIP,
THAT THE LEADERSHIP OF THE PARTY

FOR THEM IT IS CONVENIENT, THEY
ARE JUST TALKING POINTS.

>> THERE'S A FUNCTION ON THERE
WHERE FOLKS CAN DONATE TO YOU.

I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR, WHEN
FOLKS ARE GIVING MONEY, WHAT ARE

THEY GIVING MONEY FOR?
>> VERY FEW PEOPLE THAT

DONATE -- I HAD SOME PEOPLE ASK
ME, COULD YOU CONTRIBUTE TO WHAT

YOU ARE INVOLVED IN.
RIGHT NOW AT THIS POINT, IT IS

REALLY EFFORT TO CHANGE THE
PARTY LEADERSHIP.

>> THAT'S WHAT IS HAPPENING.
>> SO GOING INTO A ACCOUNT FOR

PARTY SHARE RACE.
>> IT COULD BE FOR A PARTY SHARE

RACE, THERE'S BEEN EFFORT TO
CHANGE OUT THE PARTY LEADERSHIP.

THE DISCUSSIONS I HAVE HAD WE
HAVE LOOKED AT ALSO THE COUNTY

CHAIRS.
WE LOOKED AT DISTRICT

SITUATIONS.
SOME OF THOSE SPOTS ARE YOU FEEL

THE ESTABLISHMENT CONTROLS THESE
AREAS.

>> SO WHITMER ASSUMES THERE IS A
CIVIL WAR GOING ON.

>> I THINK CIVIL WAR IS
OBVIOUSLY FROM A DEMOCRAT THAT

IS A FUNNY ANALOGY.
I WOULD SAY MORE LIKE A

FAMILY -- MY WIFE CALLS IT WHEN
WE HAVE A DISCUSSION, HE CALLS

IT INTENSE FELLOWSHIP.
[LAUGHTER]

>> MAYBE YOUR HOUSE IS
DIFFERENT.

>> INTENSE FELLOWSHIP INSIDE THE
PARTY.

I THINK THERE IS A HEALTHY
DISCUSSION GOING ON.

AND I ENCOURAGING THAT TO -- I
THINK THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN.

BY AND LARGE THERE NEEDS TO BE A
DISCUSSION.

I FOUND THERE IS A LACK OF
RELATIONSHIPS AMONG THESE

DIFFERENT GROUPS.
ALL OF THESE VARIOUS LIBERTY

GROUPS AND TEA PARTY GROUPS AND
ALL OF THEIR VARIOUS FORMS AND

AROUND THE STATE, AND I HAVE
BEEN TO A BUNCH OF THEM.

AND I KNOW THE LEADERSHIP FOR A
LOT OF THEM, PERSONALLY.

>> DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNOR
DOES.

>> I DON'T KNOW.
I DON'T KNOW AMONG THE BASE, I

DON'T KNOW THAT HE IS REALLY AS
IN TOUCH WITH THE BASE OF THE

PARTY, ITSELF.
I THINK THERE'S A DISCONNECT,

REALLY, TO WHERE HE IS GOING
POLITICALLY, AND WHERE THE PARTY

WOULD LIKE TO SEE -- OR WHERE
THE BASE OF THE PARTY WOULD LIKE

TO SEE IT.
WHEN YOU HAVE A REP GOVERNOR,

THIS IS JUST SPEAKING IN GENERAL
TERMS.

IN OUR STATE, WHEN YOU HAVE A
REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR AND OTHER

STATES WHERE THE SITUATION IS
THEY DON'T REALLY WANT A STRONG

PARTY.
THEY DON'T REALLY WANT A STRONG

PARTY, BECAUSE THEY WANT TO SET
THE AGENDA, AND IT CAN BE AN

AFFRONT TO THEIR OWN SITUATION.
SO IF YOU HAVE A STRONG PARTY

CHAIR, WHICH IS A CONSERVATIVE,
WHICH IS WHAT WOULD HAVE

HAPPENED IF I WAS THE CHAIR, AND
THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A MEGAPHONE

FOR SPEAKING ABOUT
CONSERVATIVISM.

IT HAS REALLY LACKED THAT
COMPONENT.

>> DO YOU THINK THERE CAN BE A
RECONCILIATION BETWEEN THE BASE

AND THE PEOPLE RUNNING RIGHT
NOW?

IS.
>> ABSOLUTELY.

I REACHED OUT MYSELF, BEFORE I
STARTED ON THIS TOUR, AND PEOPLE

SAID WHAT ARE YOU DOING OUT
THERE.

REALLY, IT IS MY LOVE FOR THE
BASE.

I HAVE A LOVE FOR THE PEOPLE OF
THE PARTY.

AND IT ISN'T TO BE AN OFFENSE TO
THE LEADERSHIP.

I REALLY FELT.
EVERYBODY ELSE FELL AWAY, BUT

THERE NEEDED TO BE A DISCUSSION
THAT WAS AIRED IN THE

CONVENTION.
AND SO WHEN I CAME OUT, AND THAT

HAPPENED THERE WAS SORT OF NOW
FINALLY, THE 900-POUND GORILLA

IN THE ROOM IS THAT WE NEED TO
HAVE THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT THE

FACT THAT WE ARE NOT A UNIFIED
BODY.

THAT THERE IS SEPARATION.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN I CAN'T WORK

FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVE A
MODERATION FROM MIAMIS, THAT'S

NOT THE CASE.
WE NEED TO SIT DOWN, AND DISCUSS

THAT, AND DEVELOP THE
RELATIONSHIPS AND FIGURE OUT

WHERE WE CAN WORK TOGETHER.
>> WHAT ABOUT THE TWO BIG STATE

ISSUES WE WERE JUST TALKING
ABOUT, MEDICAID EXPANSE, UNDER

OBAMA CARE, AND ALSO THIS EFFORT
TO PUT A PROPOSAL ON THE BALLOT

TO FIND MONEY TO IMPROVE ROADS
AND PERHAPS THROW ON SOME STUFF

FOR EDUCATION TOO.
>> THAT MAY MAKE SENSE IN THE

OLD MODEL.
YOU ALSO HAVE THAT CONTINUED

LIBBERRISM IN THEIR SPECTRUMS,
MYSELF LOOKING AT THOSE I THINK

THEY ARE BOTH AN OFFENSE TO THE
BASE.

AS THE GOVERNMENT CONTINUES TO
DO THAT, THE MODERATES WHO WILL

VOTE FOR SHOWER.
ARE YOU REALLY HARD TO THE

RIGHT, WITH THE RIGHT TO WORK,
AND GOD BLESS HIM FOR DOING IT,

REALLY.
I THINK HE HAS DONE A TERRIFIC

JOB IN PASSING THAT, BUT I THINK
HE WAS EXPOSED ON HIS LEFT SIDE,

IS REALLY WHAT HAPPENED.
SO NOW YOU COME BACK, -- THE

FIRST RULING WE DO NOT HAVE
TO -- THE MEDICAID THING, WE

HAVE THE OPTION OF WHETHER OR
NOT WE ARE GOING TO BE INVOLVED

IN THAT.
SO WE DON'T NEED A REPUBLICAN

HOUSE AND A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR
ADVANCING THE AGENDA.

WE DO NOT NEED THAT.
TEN THE IDEA IS IF WE GOING IN

THAT DIRECTION, THE DEMOCRATS
CAN P IN CHARGE.

LET'S SAY THERE'S A TIE VOTE,
AND THEY BREAK THE TIE TO PASS

THE EXPANSION, WOULD YOU SAY
THAT HE IS IN DEEP DO DO?

>> HERE IS YOU PRIMARY TO YOU.
>> NOT A PRIMARY.

I'M SAYING PRIMARY TO THE
CONVENTION.

>> AND WOULD THE CHALLENGE BEAR
SUCCESSFUL YOU THINK?

>> I THINK THERE'S A GOOD
CHANCE.

RIGHT NOW THERE IS THE IDEA THAT
WE ARE GOING TO BE DICTATED TO

FROM AS FAR AS THE BASE, AND
THIS ISN'T JUST ME.

I'M -- I DON'T SPEAK FOR -- I'M
NOT THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE OF THE

PARTY, I AM JUST ONE VOICE IN
IT.

THERE SHALL PLENTY OF LEADERS
OUT THERE.

IT'S NOT MY MOVEMENT, IT IS A
GROUP OF PEOPLE.

I AM JUST GIVING MY SENSE OF IT.
SIX IT IS OFFENSETIVE THE PEOPLE

THAT ARE PUTTING IN THE HOURS
AND THE PARTY TO TRY TO GET

PEOPLE ELECTS SO THEY ARE NOT
GOING TO GO OUT AND WORK.

PI AND LARGE THEY WON'T GO OUT
AND GET THEM ELECTS.

I THIS THAT MYSELF, PERSONALLY.
I THINK MOST OF YOU SAW IT.

RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE THAT WAS
THREE YEARS AGO.

>> RIGHT AS WE SAID PRESENTLY,
THIS IS THE FAMILY FEUD GOING

ON.
AS LONG AS THAT CONTINUES LEFT,

MEANING THE LEADERSHIP, WHETHER
THEY ARE DIRECTED LEADERSHIP OR

IS PARTY, AS LONG AS THEY
CONTINUE ON THAT TO THE LEFT,

WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IS IT IS
GOING TO BE EXPOSED ON THE LEFT

LANE.
>> IN THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT, I

HAD CHARGES IN WISCONSIN RELATED
TO AN INCIDENT INVOLVED A GUN

AND SO FORTH.
DO YOU THINK THOSE TYPES -- THAT

KIND OF A STORY HURTS THE TEA
PARTY MOVEMENT IN ANY WAY.

I THINK THAT THAT HAPPENS INSIDE
OF THE EVERY ORGANIZE THAT IS

UPSET WITH THE POWER OF THIS --
THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT.

THERE IS TEA PARTIES -- THEY ARE
JUST FOR THEMSELVES OR THE

RELATIONSHIP THEY HAVE.
THERE ARE SEVERAL OF THEM.

I WOULDN'T WHAT IS YOUR NAME,
AND WHERE ARE YOU CALLING FROM?S

BUT THERE ARE GOD FARING,
HONEST, FREEDOM LOVING PEOPLE

WHO ARE DOING IT BECAUSE THEY
FEEL THEY ARE COMPELLED EVERY

MORNING TO GET UP AND DO WHAT
THEY CAN TO TRY TO SAVE THE

REPUBLICAN.
>> IN THIS CASE, THIS GUY IS A

SUPPORTER OF YOURS, THAT COULD
HURT THE CREDIBILITY OF THIS

MOVEMENT IN MICHIGAN.
>> WELL, NO, I DON'T THINK SO.

I THINK THERE HAS BEEN A WHOLE
BUNCH OF THAT THESE TEA PARTY

FOLKS.
THE TEA PARTY HAS BEEN SCOURGED,

IT HAS BEEN THROUGH THE FIRE,
NOW YOU HAVE A GROUP OF

ACTIVISTS I WOULD SAY ARE A
COUPLE YEARS OLDER, AND THEY

KNOW HOW TO SHOW UP AND PUT OUT
A PHONE CAMPAIGN.

THEY KNOW HOW TO DO AN EMAIL
CAMPAIGN.

EVERYBODY GREW UP A WHOLE BUNCH
I WOULD SAY THROUGH THE RIGHT TO

WORK EFFORT.
I WOULD SAY.

SO THEY KNOW HOW TO GO OUT AND
WORK IN THE BACKGROUND, AND MAKE

SURE THEY GET DONE WHAT NEEDS TO
BE DONE.

>> IN REGARD TO TORQUE, YOU HAD
A CONVERSATION ABOUT HAVING A

PRIMARY OPPONENT FOR A SENATOR
WHO MIGHT VOTE YES ON MEDICAID,

IS THAT CORRECT.
>> THAT'S CORRECT.

>> THAT'S ONE.
DOES THAT SEND A MESSAGE?

>> I DON'T KNOW.
WE GOT CALLED TO ARMS.

I HAVE HAD THREE DISCUSSIONS ON
THE WAY OVER HERE, THREE PHONE

CALLS FROM FOLKS.
OBVIOUSLY, YOU READ SOME OF MY

STUFF, AND IT ISN'T JUST TO BE
DRAMATIC OUT THERE, BUT I THINK

WHAT IS HAPPENING IS MANY THE
BACKGROUND, THERE ARE FOLKS THAT

ARE UPSET ENOUGH, THAT NOW THEY
ARE OVERCOMING THEIR FEAR, THAT

SOMEONE NEEDS TO STEP FORWARD
AND HAVE THAT DISCUSSION IN

THEIR DISTRICT.
>> I DON'T THINK IT IS

THREATENING I THINK THEY JUST
NEED TO LOOK HARD AT THIS VOTE.

>> YOU MAY HAVE AN INTENSE
FELLOWSHIP DISCUSSION.

>> I THINK WE SHOULD.
I REMEMBER IT'S NOT THEIR

GOVERNMENT, IT IS OURS.
>> WOULD YOU VOTE FOR PROVIDER

IS IT A YES OR NO.
>> CONSIDERING MY OTHER OPTION,

WHICH IS WHAT YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO
DO, YES.

WOULD GO OUT AND PUT THE EFFORT
IN TO WORK FOR HIM, I AM HOPING

HE WILL COME BACK IN THE OTHER
DIRECTION, AND TACKLE FURTHER TO

THE RIGHT.
I HAVE HAD DISCUSSIONS ANT

PRIMARYING HIM.
>> THANK YOU.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.
>> THANK YOU ALL.

NEXT WEEK, BRIAN CALIE, MAYBE
YOU WILL WATCH.

SEE YOU THEN.
[LAUGHTER]

>> PRODUCTION OF "OFF THE
RECORD" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART

BY A GRANT FROM TRUST SCOTT
RODSMAN, MICHIGAN'S ONLY

BIPARTISAN STRATEGIC
COMMUNICATIONS FIRM.

SERVING NATIONAL, INTERNATIONAL
CLIENTS.

BY THE MICHIGAN FOOD AND
BEVERAGE ASSOCIATION.

IN THE CONJUNCTION WITH THE
MICHIGAN BUSINESS AND

PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATION.
WORKING TOGETHER FOR ITS

MEMBERS.
MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION ON THE

WEB AT MICH BUSINESS.ORG.
PROVIDING SOLUTIONS AND CHOICES

FOR OUR CLIENTS CONFIDENT FOR
OVER 70 YEARS.

HAGER FOX AND BRYANT, FOR
WHATEVER IT TAKES.

HAGER FOX.COM.
AND BY MEDIA GROUP.

PROVIDING REAL TIME MICHIGAN
NEWS, SPORTS, BUSINESS AT

NY.COM.
BLOGS ABOUT MICHIGAN POLITICS

DAILY AT MY.COM.
OFF THE RECORD CAN BE SEEN

ONLINE ANY TIME, AT
VIDEO.WKAR.ORG.

EPISODES ON DVD ARE ALSO
AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE.

>> MICHIGAN PUBLIC TV STATIONS
HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE

PRODUCTION COTES OF "OFF THE
RECORD" WITH TIM SKUBIC.

¶[MUSIC]
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