WEBVTT 00:01.466 --> 00:02.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - [Narrator] Funding for Overheard with Evan Smith 00:02.900 --> 00:05.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% is provided in part by Hillco Partners, 00:05.933 --> 00:08.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% a Texas government affairs consultancy, 00:08.766 --> 00:11.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the Alice Kleberg Reynolds Foundation, 00:11.400 --> 00:15.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Claire and Carl Stuart, and by Entergy. 00:16.633 --> 00:18.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [EVAN SMITH] I'm Evan Smith, she's a chart-topping, 00:18.133 --> 00:20.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Grammy Award-winning singer-songwriter 00:20.300 --> 00:22.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% who sold many millions of records worldwide 00:23.766 --> 00:25.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% over an amazing 30-plus-year career. 00:25.633 --> 00:28.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Her latest is "Sometimes Just the Sky." 00:28.233 --> 00:30.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% She's Mary Chapin Carpenter. 00:30.033 --> 00:31.000 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% This is Overheard. 00:32.400 --> 00:35.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Let's be honest, this about the ability to learn 00:35.433 --> 00:38.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% or this about the experience of not having to talk properly. 00:38.466 --> 00:41.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Now, have you avoided what has befallen on the nations 00:41.700 --> 00:42.666 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% in Africa and... 00:42.666 --> 00:44.166 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% To say that you'd made us on bed 00:44.166 --> 00:45.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but you caused him to sleep and... 00:45.733 --> 00:49.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% You'd saw a problem and over time took it on and... 00:49.233 --> 00:52.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Let's talk with the sizzle before we get to the steak. 00:52.133 --> 00:53.433 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Are you gonna run for president? 00:53.433 --> 00:55.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I think I just got an F from you, excellent. 00:55.333 --> 00:56.833 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% This is Overheard. 00:56.833 --> 00:59.966 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% (audience applauding) 01:04.100 --> 01:05.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] Mary Chapin Carpenter, welcome. 01:06.766 --> 01:07.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% It's so good to be with you. 01:07.966 --> 01:09.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [MARY CHAPIN CARPENTER] So glad to be here. 01:09.200 --> 01:10.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] So, we've caught you on tour, 01:10.133 --> 01:11.333 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% you're in the middle of a tour 01:11.333 --> 01:13.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% supporting your last, latest record. 01:13.266 --> 01:14.533 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% [CARPENTER] Yes. [SMITH] Which came out 01:14.533 --> 01:15.933 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% about six months, seven months go as we sit here 01:15.933 --> 01:17.366 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% called Sometimes Just the Sky. 01:17.366 --> 01:20.566 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% There's a Patty Smyth connection to the name of this album. 01:20.566 --> 01:21.400 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% Talk about that. 01:22.866 --> 01:24.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Well, you know how it is when you've got some time 01:24.966 --> 01:27.733 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% on your hands and you pull out that tracking device 01:27.733 --> 01:29.533 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% out of your back pocket, 01:29.533 --> 01:31.033 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% and you start going down some rabbit holes 01:31.033 --> 01:33.533 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% and as I've been sharing with friends 01:33.533 --> 01:36.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and the audiences that we've been playing to, 01:38.100 --> 01:39.866 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% there's some days that you just, 01:39.866 --> 01:41.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% you look up and eight hours have passed, 01:41.633 --> 01:43.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and you have nothing to show for it. 01:43.366 --> 01:47.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And in other days where you magically 01:47.066 --> 01:49.533 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% have stumbled on something. 01:49.533 --> 01:51.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You have no idea how you got there, 01:51.566 --> 01:53.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but one day, that's what happened to me. 01:53.100 --> 01:56.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I found this beautiful interview with Patty Smyth. 01:56.966 --> 02:00.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And she was talking to a group of young people. 02:01.933 --> 02:05.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% But the way I, when I read this interview, 02:05.033 --> 02:06.333 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% the way I would feel about it 02:06.333 --> 02:09.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and tell anyone, I think it would resonate 02:09.566 --> 02:12.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% with anyone in any season of their life 02:15.066 --> 02:17.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% certainly because she's so eloquent and she's wise. 02:17.600 --> 02:19.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] Well, she's Patty Smyth. [CARPENTER] She's Patty Smyth. 02:19.333 --> 02:20.266 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% [SMITH] Right. 02:20.266 --> 02:21.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% [CARPENTER] She's amazing. 02:21.933 --> 02:25.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% She was trying to lift up these young folks, 02:25.866 --> 02:28.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% talk about her work and her life. 02:28.366 --> 02:31.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And I'm paraphrasing wildly, of course. 02:31.066 --> 02:34.233 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% But she was saying to them 02:34.233 --> 02:36.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that if there's something in your life 02:36.233 --> 02:37.600 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that you're passionate about, 02:37.600 --> 02:42.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that you can't imagine being without, 02:43.466 --> 02:46.566 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% or you can't imagine not being. 02:46.566 --> 02:49.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And going forward, she said, 02:49.633 --> 02:52.700 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% "Claim it, don't apologize. 02:52.700 --> 02:55.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "Chase it with every fiber your being. 02:56.800 --> 03:00.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% "Know that that's what you're meant to do it in life, 03:00.733 --> 03:03.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "that's it's okay, that it's possible 03:03.500 --> 03:05.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "to believe in destiny, perhaps." 03:05.533 --> 03:08.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And, she was saying that if you do that, 03:08.800 --> 03:10.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% if you do claim something, 03:10.766 --> 03:15.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% you have to be prepared to encounter loss, 03:15.500 --> 03:19.066 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% rejection, fear. 03:19.066 --> 03:22.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Those days when you don't have any self-confidence. 03:22.966 --> 03:25.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% She was saying, "Life is hard. 03:25.633 --> 03:27.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "It can be so hard, but at the same time, 03:27.700 --> 03:32.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "it's so beautiful, and it's so worth claiming." 03:33.433 --> 03:34.166 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% And she was saying, 03:35.433 --> 03:38.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% "Sometimes, it's as simple 03:38.033 --> 03:40.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "as having a cup of tea with your mother, 03:40.766 --> 03:44.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "having a talk with an old friend." 03:44.066 --> 03:45.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And then, she said, "You know, 03:45.466 --> 03:48.233 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% "Sometimes, just the sky." 03:48.233 --> 03:49.666 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] And that was-- [SMITH] So you heard that 03:49.666 --> 03:51.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and you thought. [CARPENTER] That was this phrase-- 03:51.166 --> 03:52.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] That's it, right. [CARPENTER] And I could not 03:52.600 --> 03:54.133 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% get over the simplicity 03:54.133 --> 03:56.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and the beauty and for me, 03:56.100 --> 03:58.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% just the particular meaning of that, 03:58.600 --> 04:01.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and that's where the song came from. 04:01.133 --> 04:03.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - A lot of us in the receiving end of music 04:03.300 --> 04:06.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% or books or anything, don't understand 04:06.133 --> 04:08.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that there's always a story 04:08.066 --> 04:09.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% right behind something like that. 04:09.400 --> 04:10.733 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% [CARPENTER] I think so. 04:10.733 --> 04:12.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And you know, inspiration can come 04:12.433 --> 04:14.433 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% from so many different places. 04:14.433 --> 04:16.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% You just have to be open to it. 04:16.000 --> 04:19.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It can come from reading that interview 04:19.833 --> 04:22.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% or it can come from just driving down the road 04:22.000 --> 04:24.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and ruminating and something just comes to you. 04:24.433 --> 04:25.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] It's a very elegant phrase, and again, 04:25.933 --> 04:27.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I love the idea that Patty Smyth, somehow is involved. 04:27.633 --> 04:29.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% In any story, I'm happy to have Patty Smyth. 04:29.266 --> 04:30.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] That's great, that's great. 04:30.533 --> 04:31.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Sometimes, Mary Chapin, sometimes, 04:31.733 --> 04:33.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the inspiration comes from yourself. 04:33.833 --> 04:36.300 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] Sure. [SMITH] This record is actually 04:36.300 --> 04:39.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% a record of, except for the one original song, 04:39.900 --> 04:41.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% "Sometimes Just the Sky," [CARPENTER] Right. 04:41.366 --> 04:44.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - It is 12 songs that you had recorded before, 04:44.233 --> 04:47.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% one per studio album. [CARPENTER] Existing album, yup. 04:47.333 --> 04:49.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] So, 12 studio albums, you'd pick one song 04:49.366 --> 04:51.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% from each album, not the obvious song, not the big hit-- 04:51.900 --> 04:54.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] Right. [SMITH] And you did a reimagining 04:54.233 --> 04:55.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% of those songs. [CARPENTER] That's it. 04:55.666 --> 04:57.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] You basically covered yourself on this record. 04:57.066 --> 04:57.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] That's right. [SMITH] Right. 04:57.966 --> 05:00.500 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% And I had some criteria. 05:00.500 --> 05:02.466 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% I didn't want to... 05:04.500 --> 05:06.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Well, I took of the table any song 05:06.233 --> 05:10.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that I had already revisited, reimagined 05:11.866 --> 05:13.700 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% on my orchestral record. 05:13.700 --> 05:15.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% So, that took a whole lot of songs away. 05:15.833 --> 05:20.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And then, I didn't have a whole lot of desire 05:21.500 --> 05:24.633 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% to reimagine, 05:25.800 --> 05:27.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% shall we say, the hits. You know. 05:28.733 --> 05:31.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I just felt like they stood where they stood 05:31.200 --> 05:32.700 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% and that's fine. 05:32.700 --> 05:34.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] If someone's...those of us who remember those songs 05:34.133 --> 05:36.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% at the moment that they became hits, 05:36.333 --> 05:37.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% it would be a little strange for us 05:37.566 --> 05:38.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to hear a different version of it. 05:38.766 --> 05:40.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] Well, I just wanted to dive deep. 05:40.633 --> 05:42.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] Right. [CARPENTER] The format for this record 05:42.933 --> 05:46.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% was to take these existing songs and the new song. 05:48.000 --> 05:51.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I worked with a new producer, new to me, 05:51.666 --> 05:54.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the great Ethan Johns in England, 05:54.633 --> 05:57.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% with a group of musicians who had never, 05:57.233 --> 05:58.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% who weren't familiar with the music. 05:58.833 --> 06:00.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] So, they'd come into this stuff for the first time. 06:00.166 --> 06:02.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] Exactly, pretty cold to it. 06:02.000 --> 06:06.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And certainly, my feeling about it was 06:06.300 --> 06:08.500 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that they were so open-hearted 06:08.500 --> 06:11.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% about what they gave to those sessions, 06:11.166 --> 06:13.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but it was as if it was brand new. 06:13.500 --> 06:17.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I would sit in the studio, we'd all gather around 06:17.233 --> 06:21.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and Ethan's way of recording is completely old school, 06:23.166 --> 06:26.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% as well as, not having any isolation booths. 06:26.000 --> 06:27.666 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Even the drums were in the room. 06:27.666 --> 06:30.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And it's Ethan's gifts for micing things 06:30.933 --> 06:34.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that allow people to have a sense of being a part 06:34.566 --> 06:36.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but all being together. [SMITH] Yup. 06:36.100 --> 06:40.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] And I would play the song for everybody 06:40.133 --> 06:43.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and then, we would just start out on our journey. 06:43.833 --> 06:45.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] Yup, and this is different 06:45.066 --> 06:46.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% than you've recorded stuff previously. 06:46.900 --> 06:50.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] Well, it was similar, but in a sense 06:50.366 --> 06:54.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that I've been lucky enough to do it old school 06:54.833 --> 06:58.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% as opposed to emailing tracks to people. 06:58.866 --> 07:01.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I've been lucky enough to have enough of a budget 07:01.900 --> 07:03.566 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% to be able to do it all together. 07:03.566 --> 07:05.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] Again, like the titles of songs, 07:05.066 --> 07:07.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% we don't think about the story behind the process 07:07.700 --> 07:09.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% of making a record, 07:09.100 --> 07:10.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and you just told me something very interesting. 07:10.333 --> 07:11.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I didn't know that this record was done 07:11.533 --> 07:12.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% with all the musicians in the room. 07:12.833 --> 07:14.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] Yes. [SMITH] Ordinarily, these songs 07:14.800 --> 07:16.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% or songs like these are put together. 07:16.733 --> 07:18.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] Well-- [SMITH] Right, they assemble 07:18.333 --> 07:19.700 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% the tracks. 07:19.700 --> 07:20.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] It's certainly, that's one way, 07:20.900 --> 07:22.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% but in the way I've been, 07:24.133 --> 07:25.666 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% the way I've done it in the past, 07:25.666 --> 07:27.566 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% and the way that many people still do it, 07:27.566 --> 07:31.833 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% is to be in the studio, and to kind of, 07:31.833 --> 07:33.533 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% track it all at once, 07:33.533 --> 07:37.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% wait until later to do overdubs. 07:37.000 --> 07:38.233 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% [SMITH] Right. 07:38.233 --> 07:41.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] But you are in separate rooms. 07:41.066 --> 07:42.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% [SMITH] Yeah, right, and that-- 07:42.266 --> 07:44.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] And that's a technical-- 07:44.000 --> 07:45.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% There's a technical reason for that. 07:45.433 --> 07:46.700 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% [SMITH] I love this. 07:46.700 --> 07:47.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% So, you made very specific choices, 07:47.933 --> 07:49.166 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% as you said about the songs to cover. 07:49.166 --> 07:49.966 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% [CARPENTER] Yeah. [SMITH] Is there a, 07:49.966 --> 07:51.500 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% generally speaking, 07:51.500 --> 07:53.366 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% I've always wanted to understand this better, 07:53.366 --> 07:56.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% when you think about covering another song, 07:56.300 --> 07:58.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% someone else's song or your own song, 07:58.733 --> 08:02.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% the criteria for what makes a song worth covering 08:02.633 --> 08:04.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% or able to be covered. 08:04.100 --> 08:08.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] I will give you what I think is the only example 08:08.366 --> 08:10.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I could give you from my own experience. 08:10.233 --> 08:11.733 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - [SMITH] Yeah. 08:11.733 --> 08:15.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - So, I sing the song by Lucinda Williams called-- 08:15.833 --> 08:16.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% [SMITH] I'm so glad you... 08:16.766 --> 08:18.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I wanna know the story of this. 08:18.000 --> 08:19.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] "Passionate Kisses." [SMITH] Right. 08:19.466 --> 08:21.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And you recorded it five years after she did, right? 08:21.366 --> 08:22.900 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Or four, five years? 08:22.900 --> 08:24.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] I'm not exactly sure what the timeline is, 08:24.366 --> 08:29.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but, I, it was her rough trade record, 08:30.466 --> 08:33.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and it was the early, early, or late '80s 08:33.933 --> 08:35.266 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% or early '90s. 08:35.266 --> 08:36.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] Yeah, I looked it up. [CARPENTER] Okay. 08:36.766 --> 08:38.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] Her record was 1988 and your record was 1993. 08:38.833 --> 08:41.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] Okay so, in the early nineties, 08:41.233 --> 08:44.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and I forget what year, I'm gonna say '91 or '92, 08:45.033 --> 08:47.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I was lucky enough to be invited 08:47.466 --> 08:51.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% to be on a tour with Rosanne Cash and Lucinda Williams 08:51.166 --> 08:52.566 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% to Australia. [SMITH] Wow. 08:52.566 --> 08:56.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] And it was just us three 08:56.033 --> 08:58.733 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and we toured around Australia 08:58.733 --> 09:01.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and it was in the round every night. 09:01.566 --> 09:03.800 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Our guitar pool, is you know. 09:03.800 --> 09:05.300 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% [SMITH] Yup. 09:05.300 --> 09:08.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] People refer to it, swapping songs and stories 09:08.066 --> 09:09.533 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% all at the same time. 09:09.533 --> 09:12.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Lucinda would play all her great songs 09:12.233 --> 09:15.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that I knew and loved from that record, Rosanne as well. 09:15.366 --> 09:17.900 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% I was a puppy-- 09:17.900 --> 09:19.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] Oh, could you imagine with those two, right? 09:19.900 --> 09:22.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] It was just, I couldn't get enough of it 09:22.200 --> 09:23.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and I have lots of stories about it 09:23.633 --> 09:25.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% but I'll just cut to the chase. 09:25.100 --> 09:27.866 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Said I loved "Passionate Kisses" 09:27.866 --> 09:29.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and I loved singed along with it. 09:32.300 --> 09:35.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Every night, Lucinda would, we'd walk off the stage 09:35.200 --> 09:39.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and I would just, you know, just embrace her, 09:39.500 --> 09:44.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% slobber all over her and tell her how much I love that song. 09:45.566 --> 09:47.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And I think, finally, by the end of that tour, 09:47.233 --> 09:48.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% she just got so sick of me. 09:48.966 --> 09:50.766 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% (audience laughing) 09:50.766 --> 09:52.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] Fangirling her, right? [CARPENTER] Fangirling her, 09:52.400 --> 09:53.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and she said, "Oh, for God's sake, 09:53.833 --> 09:56.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "just record the song, why don't you?" 09:56.233 --> 09:59.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% So, I felt that I needed and I felt 09:59.500 --> 10:02.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that I got her blessing to do so. 10:02.133 --> 10:04.700 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And so, I recorded that song 10:04.700 --> 10:09.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and I was on Columbia at the time 10:09.466 --> 10:12.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and I turned in that record 10:13.333 --> 10:15.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and they didn't hear that song 10:15.966 --> 10:19.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% as a single and they didn't hear a lot of the songs 10:19.200 --> 10:21.700 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% on that record as a single. 10:21.700 --> 10:23.333 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% [SMITH] Man, the record business. 10:23.333 --> 10:24.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] But, you know, that happens. 10:24.566 --> 10:29.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And it's not for me to sit there and condemn it 10:29.266 --> 10:30.733 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% or criticize it. 10:30.733 --> 10:33.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% It's just, there's so many different components 10:33.033 --> 10:34.333 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% that go into it. 10:34.333 --> 10:37.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% That said, we were on the road at that time 10:37.966 --> 10:40.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and the way it worked, what seem to, 10:40.833 --> 10:43.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the way it was setup is that the record labels 10:43.166 --> 10:46.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% would have reps all over the country 10:46.166 --> 10:48.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and wherever in, you know, 10:48.966 --> 10:50.466 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% checking in with you, 10:50.466 --> 10:53.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and showing up at your gigs and so forth and so on. 10:53.333 --> 10:57.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And I started, I was playing "Passionate Kisses" 10:57.200 --> 11:01.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% in those shows it would go over so well, 11:01.300 --> 11:04.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and the reps started to report back 11:04.533 --> 11:08.833 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% to the home office that, 11:08.833 --> 11:12.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% "You guys, should think about releasing that as a single." 11:12.033 --> 11:15.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And it took that kind of momentum. 11:15.033 --> 11:16.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] To the ground up. [CARPENTER] Correct. 11:16.533 --> 11:19.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% For them to, sort of, go, "Oh, okay." 11:21.200 --> 11:23.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% That's sort of how it happened. 11:23.033 --> 11:23.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - And then it ended up being... 11:23.966 --> 11:25.433 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I still think, if you ask people 11:25.433 --> 11:28.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% about your extraordinary body of work and career, 11:28.933 --> 11:32.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that has to come up in the top three or four songs, 11:32.233 --> 11:34.633 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% if people think about. [CARPENTER] What I was gonna say and-- 11:34.633 --> 11:35.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] 'Cause I had to remind myself 11:35.900 --> 11:37.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that it was Lucinda's song that you covered 11:37.933 --> 11:39.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and not your song that she covered. 11:39.800 --> 11:41.066 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% [CARPENTER] Oh, God. 11:41.066 --> 11:42.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] I honestly associate that song, 11:43.333 --> 11:44.866 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% in some ways, with you. 11:44.866 --> 11:46.666 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] Well so, to get back to your original question 11:46.666 --> 11:49.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% about, how do you decide, 11:49.633 --> 11:51.133 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% especially, like for myself, 11:51.133 --> 11:54.266 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I have always been the purveyor of my own songs, 11:54.266 --> 11:58.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and it's, maybe, two or three songs in my career 11:58.700 --> 11:59.533 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% that I've... 12:00.466 --> 12:03.900 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% outside songs that I've done. 12:03.900 --> 12:08.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% For me, it was the sense that "Passionate Kisses"... 12:08.400 --> 12:11.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% First of all, over the years, I've played it with a, 12:13.233 --> 12:15.566 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% raise the roof rock band. 12:15.566 --> 12:18.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I've played down slowed down, stripped back 12:18.433 --> 12:19.833 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% as a tender, 12:22.433 --> 12:24.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% bittersweet kind of thing. 12:25.066 --> 12:28.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Not an anthemic kind of thing. 12:29.266 --> 12:32.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And however I've presented it to me, 12:32.000 --> 12:36.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% it represents a perfect vessel of songcraft. 12:36.500 --> 12:41.266 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% It speaks to the most basic, to the most human emotion 12:41.266 --> 12:44.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% in all of us, which is to love and to be loved. 12:44.166 --> 12:47.733 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And in the most simple language. 12:48.666 --> 12:49.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% [SMITH] It's everything music 12:49.933 --> 12:51.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% is about in a lot of ways, right? 12:51.200 --> 12:52.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] Yeah, and it's like... 12:54.400 --> 12:57.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I like to say that for the three and a half minutes or so 12:57.633 --> 13:00.866 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that I get to inhabit that song, 13:01.800 --> 13:03.733 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% it feels like the perfect song. 13:03.733 --> 13:06.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Am I remembering correctly that she won an award-- 13:06.866 --> 13:08.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] She won a Grammy. [SMITH] She won a Grammy 13:08.400 --> 13:11.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% for having written that song that you recorded 13:11.633 --> 13:14.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and...I think it's a wonderful story. 13:14.733 --> 13:15.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It just tells me everything about. 13:15.966 --> 13:17.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] I may have this wrong 13:17.300 --> 13:18.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and she may kill me for saying this, 13:19.633 --> 13:21.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but I remember, I don't think she came 13:21.700 --> 13:23.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to that particular Grammy ceremony 13:23.266 --> 13:25.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% because she was unhappy with her hair. 13:25.933 --> 13:27.400 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% (audience laughing) 13:27.400 --> 13:30.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] You know what, it happens, right? 13:30.266 --> 13:31.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] It happens to all of us. 13:31.233 --> 13:32.366 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% [SMITH] It happens. 13:32.366 --> 13:33.500 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - I wanna talk about you. 13:33.500 --> 13:34.700 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% We don't have an infinite amount of time 13:34.700 --> 13:35.933 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% but I wanna take some time, 13:35.933 --> 13:38.133 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% 'cause I think your story is so great. 13:38.133 --> 13:41.433 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60% So, I love... 13:41.433 --> 13:43.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% So, born in Princeton, New Jersey, 13:43.900 --> 13:45.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% went to school in Princeton, New Jersey 13:45.400 --> 13:48.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and Watertown, Connecticut, went to Brown University, 13:48.900 --> 13:50.433 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% then moved to Washington, DC. 13:50.433 --> 13:53.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% The classic country music origin story. 13:53.100 --> 13:54.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% (audience laughing) Right? 13:54.400 --> 13:56.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Who among has not gone to boarding school 13:56.566 --> 13:58.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and Ivy League schools and come out on the other side 13:58.733 --> 14:00.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and thought, country music, what a career. 14:00.966 --> 14:03.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I'm just interested in how that happened. 14:03.700 --> 14:06.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% The input became then this unusual output. 14:06.333 --> 14:09.266 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - The way I've put... 14:09.266 --> 14:12.600 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% It is an interesting circuitous route. 14:13.833 --> 14:16.500 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% I was living in Washington, DC, 14:16.500 --> 14:21.500 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% playing bars and clubs, and there's this iconic club 14:22.966 --> 14:25.266 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% called The Birchmere, just outside of Washington, DC. 14:25.266 --> 14:28.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And the wonderful owner of The Birchmere, Gary, 14:28.600 --> 14:32.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% was kind enough to allow me to open shows for people. 14:32.900 --> 14:34.333 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% And-- 14:34.333 --> 14:35.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] You were like literally just out of school 14:35.166 --> 14:36.700 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% at this point, right? 14:36.700 --> 14:37.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] Oh well, I mean I was-- [SMITH] Couple of years. 14:37.933 --> 14:38.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] Yeah, couple of years. 14:38.866 --> 14:41.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I was just doing temp work and-- 14:41.100 --> 14:42.600 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% [SMITH] Mid '80s. 14:42.600 --> 14:43.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] I was trying to figure what I was really going 14:43.566 --> 14:44.833 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% to do with my life. 14:44.833 --> 14:45.800 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I mean, that's the truth. 14:45.800 --> 14:47.200 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% I-- 14:47.200 --> 14:48.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] You were an American Civilizations major 14:48.366 --> 14:49.600 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% when you had it at Brown, right? 14:49.600 --> 14:50.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] That's right, that's right. 14:50.833 --> 14:52.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] This was not, again, academically, 14:52.333 --> 14:53.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% or anything else, did not point you in this direction. 14:53.866 --> 14:56.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] Yeah, no, I was living in group houses in DC 14:56.066 --> 14:59.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and just trying to make my rent and try if... 14:59.666 --> 15:01.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I was going to do something else, 15:01.333 --> 15:04.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I just hadn't figured it out yet. 15:04.433 --> 15:08.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And I do remember coming to a point in my life 15:08.600 --> 15:12.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% where I just didn't want to haul my 15:14.500 --> 15:15.800 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% cruddy sound system 15:15.800 --> 15:19.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% up another flight of stairs to another bar. 15:19.033 --> 15:21.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And I reached this point where I just said, 15:21.100 --> 15:23.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% you know what, I think it's time for me 15:23.500 --> 15:25.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to just find that real job. 15:25.466 --> 15:26.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] Get out of this, right? [CARPENTER] Yeah. 15:26.866 --> 15:29.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And I remember, this is in the day, 15:29.566 --> 15:31.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% again, such a different time now, 15:31.600 --> 15:36.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% but scanning the classifieds and looking for anything 15:38.066 --> 15:40.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that would take a Liberal Arts major, just anything. 15:40.133 --> 15:42.133 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% (audience laughing) 15:42.133 --> 15:44.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I interviewed for a consulting firm 15:44.133 --> 15:46.733 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% in downtown K Street, DC, 15:46.733 --> 15:50.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and as a researcher, 'cause what else was I going to? 15:51.800 --> 15:53.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] You can be Kellyanne Conway today. 15:53.033 --> 15:55.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] Oh Jesus. (audience laughing) 15:58.433 --> 15:59.666 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% [SMITH] It's a good line for... 15:59.666 --> 16:00.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It's a good line for PBS, actually. 16:02.533 --> 16:04.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Couldn't turn out differently. 16:04.033 --> 16:05.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] I wish I had come back for that but... 16:05.333 --> 16:07.233 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% (audience laughing) 16:07.233 --> 16:12.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% But I remember interviewing, consulting firm, 16:13.666 --> 16:15.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% the woman, it's as if she couldn't come right out 16:15.033 --> 16:16.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and say, "I'll hire you," 16:16.266 --> 16:17.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% but she was sort of saying, 16:17.466 --> 16:18.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "If I offer you this job, will you take it?" 16:18.833 --> 16:20.866 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I'm like, I'll take anything. 16:20.866 --> 16:22.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I'll make coffee, I'll do anything. 16:22.733 --> 16:27.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And it was a Friday and that Monday, no, no, no. 16:29.100 --> 16:31.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% She called me on a Friday, and she said, 16:31.266 --> 16:33.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "We'd like to offer you this job." 16:33.600 --> 16:35.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And I had this moment of (gasps), oh. 16:38.833 --> 16:39.666 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% And I said, 16:41.166 --> 16:43.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% "Would you give me the weekend to think about it?" 16:43.700 --> 16:47.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And I could tell she was not happy 16:47.133 --> 16:51.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and that weekend, I really thought about it. 16:51.366 --> 16:54.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and I realized, it wasn't ready to give up music. 16:54.933 --> 16:56.400 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% [SMITH] To give up, right, yeah. 16:56.400 --> 16:58.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] And it's not like I had some plan. 16:58.366 --> 16:59.400 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% It's not like I had-- 16:59.400 --> 17:00.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% [SMITH] Yeah, but you knew. 17:00.966 --> 17:02.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] I just knew that I wasn't ready to... 17:03.666 --> 17:07.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I just wanted to keep playing music somehow 17:07.766 --> 17:11.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and I wasn't ready to completely abandon it as I knew it. 17:11.500 --> 17:13.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And that Monday, I called her back 17:13.000 --> 17:15.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and I said, I'm so sorry, I can't accept the job. 17:15.466 --> 17:17.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% She was not happy, but then, 17:17.933 --> 17:20.166 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% it's as if, the way things go-- 17:20.166 --> 17:22.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] Right, fate intervenes, yeah. 17:22.033 --> 17:23.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] Yeah, and then I met a person 17:23.900 --> 17:25.600 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% who introduced me to a person, 17:25.600 --> 17:28.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% who introduced me to a person, and yada, yada, yada. 17:28.066 --> 17:29.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% [SMITH] It all worked out. 17:29.266 --> 17:30.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] It just, things changed. 17:30.966 --> 17:32.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] And you were playing at that point 17:32.433 --> 17:34.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% what we would know or would've known at the time 17:34.233 --> 17:35.966 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% as folk music, sort of? 17:35.966 --> 17:37.733 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Some folk, some country. 17:37.733 --> 17:38.566 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% [CARPENTER] To me, 17:40.100 --> 17:43.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I wasn't, I am a singer-songwriter. 17:43.200 --> 17:45.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] Without regard to genre-- [CARPENTER] Exactly. 17:45.200 --> 17:47.133 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% [SMITH] You don't label yourself, this, that, or the other. 17:47.133 --> 17:51.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] Yeah, never have and when I found my... 17:51.166 --> 17:56.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And so, just ever so briefly, the gentlemen at The Birchmere 17:57.333 --> 18:02.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% who was hiring me to open shows got a call, 18:03.633 --> 18:06.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% or was putting on a showcase for some Nashville artists 18:06.066 --> 18:08.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% who were coming up to DC at The Birchmere, 18:08.800 --> 18:12.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and they were just having a phone call about the logistics. 18:12.800 --> 18:15.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And in the process of the phone call, he said, 18:15.500 --> 18:18.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "So, what else is going on in your world?" 18:18.633 --> 18:23.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And Gary mentioned my name, and said, 18:23.133 --> 18:26.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% 'cause he knew this, I had just made a tape 18:26.200 --> 18:29.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that I was carrying around in my back pocket and-- 18:29.733 --> 18:31.333 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% [SMITH] Isn't it amazing? 18:31.333 --> 18:33.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] Yeah, and this gentlemen, 18:33.766 --> 18:35.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% this scout from Columbia, 18:35.266 --> 18:37.500 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% guy named Larry Hamby said, 18:37.500 --> 18:40.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% "How do I get ahold of this tape? I'd like to hear it." 18:40.533 --> 18:41.733 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% And-- 18:41.733 --> 18:43.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] It's something as simple as that. 18:43.366 --> 18:44.800 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% [CARPENTER] As simple as that. [SMITH] The kindness of one person-- 18:44.800 --> 18:46.300 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] Exactly. [SMITH] And you find that. 18:46.300 --> 18:47.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Did you grow up with a lot of music in your house, 18:47.733 --> 18:48.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% like you have sisters, right? [CARPENTER] Yes. 18:48.933 --> 18:50.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] And records on in the house. 18:50.500 --> 18:52.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] And my father was a total jazz buff. 18:52.833 --> 18:55.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% My mother was a classical music aficionado 18:55.800 --> 18:58.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% so we had music blasting in the house all the time. 18:58.166 --> 19:02.900 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% - You're kin to the Chapins by some-- Is it some, like distant? 19:02.900 --> 19:03.900 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% [CARPENTER] Who knows? 19:03.900 --> 19:05.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Many, many, many years ago. 19:05.466 --> 19:07.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] The lore is that you and Tom and Harry Chapin 19:07.966 --> 19:09.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% are somehow connected, somehow, somehow, somehow. 19:09.366 --> 19:10.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] Well, many, many years ago 19:10.633 --> 19:12.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% at Kerrville Folk Festival, 19:12.966 --> 19:17.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I met Tom Chapin and we decided 19:17.100 --> 19:19.166 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% that we must be related. 19:19.166 --> 19:20.400 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% (audience laughing) 19:20.400 --> 19:23.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] So, like all important truths, 19:23.033 --> 19:24.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% it's more asserted than proven, right? 19:24.900 --> 19:27.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% That's it, it's an asserted relationship. 19:27.366 --> 19:28.866 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% What do you think about... 19:28.866 --> 19:30.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You don't wanna yourself folk or country, 19:30.733 --> 19:33.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% but if you think about the Grammy Awards that you've won. 19:33.033 --> 19:34.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [CARPENTER] Well, if you could just-- 19:34.133 --> 19:35.666 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% [SMITH] Yeah, please. 19:35.666 --> 19:39.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] Just, so I got signed by this gentlemen, 19:39.633 --> 19:44.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Larry Hamby, to the Nashville Columbia label. 19:44.633 --> 19:46.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] The Nashville, slice of it. 19:46.133 --> 19:48.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] The Nashville office. [SMITH] Right, yeah. 19:48.866 --> 19:52.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] And the reason why I think that happened 19:52.933 --> 19:55.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% is that that was a time, it was the late '80s 19:55.466 --> 19:59.333 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% when country music was, 20:00.666 --> 20:03.966 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% it was like this wide open place, 20:03.966 --> 20:05.433 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% and there were people. 20:05.433 --> 20:09.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% That was the time when Lyle Lovett, Steve Earle, 20:09.366 --> 20:13.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Rodney Crowell, Rosanne Cash, Nanci Griffith. 20:16.000 --> 20:20.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% These extraordinary singer-songwriter artists, 20:20.733 --> 20:24.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% who, in my mind, what they all have in common, 20:24.533 --> 20:28.400 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% is they have story songs, they tell the stories 20:28.400 --> 20:30.200 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% and that's what you've been saying. 20:30.200 --> 20:35.200 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% And so, somehow, it was, 20:36.133 --> 20:37.800 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% they thought maybe-- 20:37.800 --> 20:39.266 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% [SMITH] They just put you in-- [CARPENTER] Maybe I could be there. 20:39.266 --> 20:40.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] In the same category. [CARPENTER] So, I think, 20:40.566 --> 20:44.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that is what I've always had in common with them 20:45.700 --> 20:47.266 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% in the sense that I've tried to tell stories with my music. 20:48.433 --> 20:52.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And whether I neatly fit the profile or not, 20:52.300 --> 20:55.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I think that's what allowed me to sort of find a niche. 20:55.166 --> 20:57.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] So, think about what Nashville country 20:57.300 --> 20:59.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% or country broadly has become through the years later. 20:59.933 --> 21:01.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I mean-- [CARPENTER] It's very different. 21:01.400 --> 21:03.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] You and Florida Georgia Line 21:03.766 --> 21:05.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% don't have a lot in common. 21:05.000 --> 21:06.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% [CARPENTER] No, no we don't. 21:06.266 --> 21:07.800 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% [SMITH] And even if you go back 10 or 15 years, 21:07.800 --> 21:09.800 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% you and what we're referred to contemptuously, 21:09.800 --> 21:12.666 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% I don't think they saw you fairly as the "hat acts." 21:12.666 --> 21:15.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% You and Garth Brooks didn't have a lot in common. 21:15.033 --> 21:17.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Country has become something else. 21:17.100 --> 21:18.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Is there a place, still, I hope there is. 21:18.966 --> 21:20.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% The answer must be yes, you're here, 21:20.266 --> 21:22.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% you're still making records and touring. 21:22.133 --> 21:24.266 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% Is there a place for story songs? 21:24.266 --> 21:25.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] Oh, absolutely. [SMITH] For those... 21:25.466 --> 21:28.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And how are we to think about that in terms 21:28.366 --> 21:29.866 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% of how the world has evolved? 21:29.866 --> 21:32.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Well, first of all, I think this could be a conversation 21:32.800 --> 21:34.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that we could talk for hours about. 21:34.566 --> 21:36.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] Hours about, it's right, yeah. 21:36.033 --> 21:39.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - But the delivery system for music is so different now 21:39.700 --> 21:42.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and the way people get their music is so different now, 21:42.633 --> 21:44.633 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% and it's not confined 21:44.633 --> 21:49.633 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% to what is on the radio. 21:49.633 --> 21:51.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] It's been democratized, hasn't it? 21:51.100 --> 21:54.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] The compartmentalization of radio, 21:54.333 --> 21:55.466 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% it's so different. 21:56.866 --> 22:00.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% So, you can explore, actually, what it feels like to me 22:00.500 --> 22:04.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% in a certain way, is when I grew up, 22:04.366 --> 22:06.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I remember being 10 years old, 22:06.266 --> 22:09.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and having a transistor radio, living in New Jersey 22:09.533 --> 22:13.133 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and listening to 77 WABC. 22:13.133 --> 22:14.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] Oh, I remember that, yeah. 22:14.600 --> 22:16.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] Cousin Brucie. [SMITH] Cousin Brucie. 22:16.100 --> 22:19.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] And you could hear Penny Lane, Motown, 22:19.533 --> 22:23.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% the Rolling Stones all in an hour, the same hour. 22:23.933 --> 22:28.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% So, that compartmentalization wasn't in play, 22:30.400 --> 22:32.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% so you could be exposed to so many different things. 22:32.566 --> 22:35.333 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% That's, to me, kind of what life 22:35.333 --> 22:37.400 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% is like now in a wonderful way. 22:37.400 --> 22:38.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - And the streaming services allow you 22:38.933 --> 22:40.200 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% to get access to music. 22:40.200 --> 22:41.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It's, essentially, you don't need 22:41.466 --> 22:43.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% a big record company budget behind you-- 22:43.233 --> 22:44.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] That's right. [SMITH] Or big promotion budget 22:44.600 --> 22:46.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and satellite radio among other things. 22:46.233 --> 22:47.433 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% [CARPENTER] That's right. 22:47.433 --> 22:48.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] Now has these narrow verticals. 22:48.933 --> 22:53.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [CARPENTER] And, to me, the most profound difference 22:53.200 --> 22:57.033 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% is that as an artist, 22:57.033 --> 23:00.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% you can hang blankets in your bedroom, 23:00.900 --> 23:05.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and create an environment where you can make, 23:05.833 --> 23:09.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% you can use your laptop to be your recording studio. 23:09.166 --> 23:10.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] The technology allows that, right. 23:10.300 --> 23:13.133 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - The gatekeepers are gone, 23:13.133 --> 23:17.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and that, to me, is the most exciting thing about our time. 23:17.633 --> 23:18.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% [SMITH] But to come back to 23:18.966 --> 23:20.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% where we started this conversation, 23:20.466 --> 23:21.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% with about a minute or two left, 23:21.966 --> 23:25.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% the Ethan Johns production of "Sometimes Just the Sky" 23:25.166 --> 23:27.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% is not you in your bedroom with blankets up 23:27.366 --> 23:28.900 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% on the wall and a laptop, 23:28.900 --> 23:31.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% you've actually gone old school on us in many ways 23:31.400 --> 23:33.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% which I think is one of the more refreshing things about you 23:33.500 --> 23:38.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% is that times changed, planets realign, you are you. 23:38.400 --> 23:40.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Everybody else has changed, the world has changed, 23:40.466 --> 23:41.933 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% you're still you. 23:41.933 --> 23:45.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And that's why it's so great to encounter you now 23:45.533 --> 23:49.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% because it feels like you haven't allowed fashion or fad 23:49.500 --> 23:51.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to turn you into somebody you're not. 23:51.233 --> 23:52.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Well, thank you so much. 23:52.966 --> 23:54.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] And so, as you go, you look out now, 23:54.833 --> 23:57.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% you still are enjoying this, 23:57.100 --> 23:59.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% you still feel as motivated, energized, 23:59.033 --> 24:00.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% none of these is different than it was. 24:00.600 --> 24:04.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - It's even more, it's even sweeter. 24:04.566 --> 24:08.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And I would say that after 30 some years 24:08.000 --> 24:11.133 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% of making records, touring, 24:11.133 --> 24:14.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I know how fortunate I am to be able to still do this, 24:14.933 --> 24:19.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to still be able to find an audience. 24:20.933 --> 24:24.666 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And it's not something I would ever take for granted 24:24.666 --> 24:26.166 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% because I know it's rare. 24:26.166 --> 24:28.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] The economics of it still work out to do this. 24:28.166 --> 24:29.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% [CARPENTER] They still work out, 24:29.633 --> 24:34.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and you have to love what you do. 24:34.333 --> 24:38.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And I've never felt more in love with songwriting. 24:38.800 --> 24:42.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I've never felt more in love and in need 24:42.633 --> 24:47.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% to feel that connection that happens in a live setting. 24:49.700 --> 24:54.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% The thing that I love to say, to thank the audience for, 24:56.100 --> 25:00.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and it's absolutely the thing I feel most strongly about 25:01.566 --> 25:05.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% is to thank them for being there, for supporting live music 25:06.800 --> 25:10.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% because we can get any song, any book, 25:11.600 --> 25:13.233 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% any work of art, any poem, 25:13.233 --> 25:15.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% anything from that tracking device, 25:15.933 --> 25:19.300 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% but it's always going to be between us and that screen, 25:19.300 --> 25:21.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and there's never going to be a substitute 25:21.533 --> 25:23.033 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% for being together, 25:23.033 --> 25:26.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and the energy and the sense of being on a journey together 25:26.233 --> 25:31.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that a live performance of some kind of art gives you. 25:31.233 --> 25:33.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And we've never needed that more. 25:33.266 --> 25:34.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% [SMITH] Well, they don't need to come see you 25:34.733 --> 25:37.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% but they do and God knows why they come see you. 25:37.033 --> 25:39.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% So, Mary Chapin Carpenter, what a pleasure it is to see you 25:39.900 --> 25:40.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and to be with you. [CARPENTER] Thank you so much. 25:40.866 --> 25:42.200 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% [SMITH] Thank you so much. 25:42.200 --> 25:43.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Good luck with everything going forward. 25:43.433 --> 25:44.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Give her a big hand, Mary Chapin Carpenter. 25:44.900 --> 25:47.433 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% (audience applauding) 25:47.433 --> 25:49.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [SMITH] We'd love to have you join us in the studio. 25:49.866 --> 25:53.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Visit our website at klru.org/overheard 25:53.933 --> 25:56.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to find invitations to interviews, 25:56.133 --> 25:58.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Q&As with our audience and guests, 25:58.166 --> 26:01.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and an archive of past episodes. 26:01.000 --> 26:04.633 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% - It's a challenge, but I've been very fortunate 26:04.633 --> 26:09.633 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% in my life to travel with wonderful people, 26:11.200 --> 26:13.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and that makes a huge difference, think about it. 26:13.733 --> 26:16.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Just, you're in a tiny space with people 26:16.100 --> 26:17.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and you have to get along. 26:17.633 --> 26:22.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% So, I've been really fortunate to travel with great folks, 26:24.033 --> 26:26.400 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Respectful, mutually supportive. 26:27.800 --> 26:29.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% [NARRATOR] Funding for Overheard with Evan Smith 26:29.066 --> 26:31.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% is provided in part by Hillco Partners, 26:31.900 --> 26:34.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% a Texas government affairs consultancy, 26:34.333 --> 26:37.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the Alice Kleberg Reynolds Foundation, 26:37.366 --> 26:41.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Claire and Carl Stuart, and by Entergy. 26:42.100 --> 26:44.600 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60% (soft music)