1 00:00:01,466 --> 00:00:02,900 - [Narrator] Funding for Overheard with Evan Smith 2 00:00:02,900 --> 00:00:05,933 is provided in part by Hillco Partners, 3 00:00:05,933 --> 00:00:08,766 a Texas government affairs consultancy, 4 00:00:08,766 --> 00:00:11,400 the Alice Kleberg Reynolds Foundation, 5 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,266 Claire and Carl Stuart, and by Entergy. 6 00:00:16,633 --> 00:00:18,133 [EVAN SMITH] I'm Evan Smith, she's a chart-topping, 7 00:00:18,133 --> 00:00:20,300 Grammy Award-winning singer-songwriter 8 00:00:20,300 --> 00:00:22,633 who sold many millions of records worldwide 9 00:00:23,766 --> 00:00:25,633 over an amazing 30-plus-year career. 10 00:00:25,633 --> 00:00:28,233 Her latest is "Sometimes Just the Sky." 11 00:00:28,233 --> 00:00:30,033 She's Mary Chapin Carpenter. 12 00:00:30,033 --> 00:00:31,000 This is Overheard. 13 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,433 Let's be honest, this about the ability to learn 14 00:00:35,433 --> 00:00:38,466 or this about the experience of not having to talk properly. 15 00:00:38,466 --> 00:00:41,700 Now, have you avoided what has befallen on the nations 16 00:00:41,700 --> 00:00:42,666 in Africa and... 17 00:00:42,666 --> 00:00:44,166 To say that you'd made us on bed 18 00:00:44,166 --> 00:00:45,733 but you caused him to sleep and... 19 00:00:45,733 --> 00:00:49,233 You'd saw a problem and over time took it on and... 20 00:00:49,233 --> 00:00:52,133 Let's talk with the sizzle before we get to the steak. 21 00:00:52,133 --> 00:00:53,433 Are you gonna run for president? 22 00:00:53,433 --> 00:00:55,333 I think I just got an F from you, excellent. 23 00:00:55,333 --> 00:00:56,833 This is Overheard. 24 00:00:56,833 --> 00:00:59,966 (audience applauding) 25 00:01:04,100 --> 00:01:05,900 [SMITH] Mary Chapin Carpenter, welcome. 26 00:01:06,766 --> 00:01:07,966 It's so good to be with you. 27 00:01:07,966 --> 00:01:09,200 [MARY CHAPIN CARPENTER] So glad to be here. 28 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:10,133 [SMITH] So, we've caught you on tour, 29 00:01:10,133 --> 00:01:11,333 you're in the middle of a tour 30 00:01:11,333 --> 00:01:13,266 supporting your last, latest record. 31 00:01:13,266 --> 00:01:14,533 [CARPENTER] Yes. [SMITH] Which came out 32 00:01:14,533 --> 00:01:15,933 about six months, seven months go as we sit here 33 00:01:15,933 --> 00:01:17,366 called Sometimes Just the Sky. 34 00:01:17,366 --> 00:01:20,566 There's a Patty Smyth connection to the name of this album. 35 00:01:20,566 --> 00:01:21,400 Talk about that. 36 00:01:22,866 --> 00:01:24,966 - Well, you know how it is when you've got some time 37 00:01:24,966 --> 00:01:27,733 on your hands and you pull out that tracking device 38 00:01:27,733 --> 00:01:29,533 out of your back pocket, 39 00:01:29,533 --> 00:01:31,033 and you start going down some rabbit holes 40 00:01:31,033 --> 00:01:33,533 and as I've been sharing with friends 41 00:01:33,533 --> 00:01:36,400 and the audiences that we've been playing to, 42 00:01:38,100 --> 00:01:39,866 there's some days that you just, 43 00:01:39,866 --> 00:01:41,633 you look up and eight hours have passed, 44 00:01:41,633 --> 00:01:43,366 and you have nothing to show for it. 45 00:01:43,366 --> 00:01:47,066 And in other days where you magically 46 00:01:47,066 --> 00:01:49,533 have stumbled on something. 47 00:01:49,533 --> 00:01:51,566 You have no idea how you got there, 48 00:01:51,566 --> 00:01:53,100 but one day, that's what happened to me. 49 00:01:53,100 --> 00:01:56,966 I found this beautiful interview with Patty Smyth. 50 00:01:56,966 --> 00:02:00,433 And she was talking to a group of young people. 51 00:02:01,933 --> 00:02:05,033 But the way I, when I read this interview, 52 00:02:05,033 --> 00:02:06,333 the way I would feel about it 53 00:02:06,333 --> 00:02:09,566 and tell anyone, I think it would resonate 54 00:02:09,566 --> 00:02:12,466 with anyone in any season of their life 55 00:02:15,066 --> 00:02:17,600 certainly because she's so eloquent and she's wise. 56 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,333 [SMITH] Well, she's Patty Smyth. [CARPENTER] She's Patty Smyth. 57 00:02:19,333 --> 00:02:20,266 [SMITH] Right. 58 00:02:20,266 --> 00:02:21,933 [CARPENTER] She's amazing. 59 00:02:21,933 --> 00:02:25,866 She was trying to lift up these young folks, 60 00:02:25,866 --> 00:02:28,366 talk about her work and her life. 61 00:02:28,366 --> 00:02:31,066 And I'm paraphrasing wildly, of course. 62 00:02:31,066 --> 00:02:34,233 But she was saying to them 63 00:02:34,233 --> 00:02:36,233 that if there's something in your life 64 00:02:36,233 --> 00:02:37,600 that you're passionate about, 65 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:42,600 that you can't imagine being without, 66 00:02:43,466 --> 00:02:46,566 or you can't imagine not being. 67 00:02:46,566 --> 00:02:49,633 And going forward, she said, 68 00:02:49,633 --> 00:02:52,700 "Claim it, don't apologize. 69 00:02:52,700 --> 00:02:55,400 "Chase it with every fiber your being. 70 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,733 "Know that that's what you're meant to do it in life, 71 00:03:00,733 --> 00:03:03,500 "that's it's okay, that it's possible 72 00:03:03,500 --> 00:03:05,533 "to believe in destiny, perhaps." 73 00:03:05,533 --> 00:03:08,800 And, she was saying that if you do that, 74 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,766 if you do claim something, 75 00:03:10,766 --> 00:03:15,500 you have to be prepared to encounter loss, 76 00:03:15,500 --> 00:03:19,066 rejection, fear. 77 00:03:19,066 --> 00:03:22,966 Those days when you don't have any self-confidence. 78 00:03:22,966 --> 00:03:25,633 She was saying, "Life is hard. 79 00:03:25,633 --> 00:03:27,700 "It can be so hard, but at the same time, 80 00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:32,700 "it's so beautiful, and it's so worth claiming." 81 00:03:33,433 --> 00:03:34,166 And she was saying, 82 00:03:35,433 --> 00:03:38,033 "Sometimes, it's as simple 83 00:03:38,033 --> 00:03:40,766 "as having a cup of tea with your mother, 84 00:03:40,766 --> 00:03:44,066 "having a talk with an old friend." 85 00:03:44,066 --> 00:03:45,466 And then, she said, "You know, 86 00:03:45,466 --> 00:03:48,233 "Sometimes, just the sky." 87 00:03:48,233 --> 00:03:49,666 [CARPENTER] And that was-- [SMITH] So you heard that 88 00:03:49,666 --> 00:03:51,166 and you thought. [CARPENTER] That was this phrase-- 89 00:03:51,166 --> 00:03:52,600 [SMITH] That's it, right. [CARPENTER] And I could not 90 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,133 get over the simplicity 91 00:03:54,133 --> 00:03:56,100 and the beauty and for me, 92 00:03:56,100 --> 00:03:58,600 just the particular meaning of that, 93 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,133 and that's where the song came from. 94 00:04:01,133 --> 00:04:03,300 - A lot of us in the receiving end of music 95 00:04:03,300 --> 00:04:06,133 or books or anything, don't understand 96 00:04:06,133 --> 00:04:08,066 that there's always a story 97 00:04:08,066 --> 00:04:09,400 right behind something like that. 98 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:10,733 [CARPENTER] I think so. 99 00:04:10,733 --> 00:04:12,433 And you know, inspiration can come 100 00:04:12,433 --> 00:04:14,433 from so many different places. 101 00:04:14,433 --> 00:04:16,000 You just have to be open to it. 102 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,833 It can come from reading that interview 103 00:04:19,833 --> 00:04:22,000 or it can come from just driving down the road 104 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,433 and ruminating and something just comes to you. 105 00:04:24,433 --> 00:04:25,933 [SMITH] It's a very elegant phrase, and again, 106 00:04:25,933 --> 00:04:27,633 I love the idea that Patty Smyth, somehow is involved. 107 00:04:27,633 --> 00:04:29,266 In any story, I'm happy to have Patty Smyth. 108 00:04:29,266 --> 00:04:30,533 [CARPENTER] That's great, that's great. 109 00:04:30,533 --> 00:04:31,733 - Sometimes, Mary Chapin, sometimes, 110 00:04:31,733 --> 00:04:33,833 the inspiration comes from yourself. 111 00:04:33,833 --> 00:04:36,300 [CARPENTER] Sure. [SMITH] This record is actually 112 00:04:36,300 --> 00:04:39,900 a record of, except for the one original song, 113 00:04:39,900 --> 00:04:41,366 "Sometimes Just the Sky," [CARPENTER] Right. 114 00:04:41,366 --> 00:04:44,233 - It is 12 songs that you had recorded before, 115 00:04:44,233 --> 00:04:47,333 one per studio album. [CARPENTER] Existing album, yup. 116 00:04:47,333 --> 00:04:49,366 [SMITH] So, 12 studio albums, you'd pick one song 117 00:04:49,366 --> 00:04:51,900 from each album, not the obvious song, not the big hit-- 118 00:04:51,900 --> 00:04:54,233 [CARPENTER] Right. [SMITH] And you did a reimagining 119 00:04:54,233 --> 00:04:55,666 of those songs. [CARPENTER] That's it. 120 00:04:55,666 --> 00:04:57,066 [SMITH] You basically covered yourself on this record. 121 00:04:57,066 --> 00:04:57,966 [CARPENTER] That's right. [SMITH] Right. 122 00:04:57,966 --> 00:05:00,500 And I had some criteria. 123 00:05:00,500 --> 00:05:02,466 I didn't want to... 124 00:05:04,500 --> 00:05:06,233 Well, I took of the table any song 125 00:05:06,233 --> 00:05:10,100 that I had already revisited, reimagined 126 00:05:11,866 --> 00:05:13,700 on my orchestral record. 127 00:05:13,700 --> 00:05:15,833 So, that took a whole lot of songs away. 128 00:05:15,833 --> 00:05:20,366 And then, I didn't have a whole lot of desire 129 00:05:21,500 --> 00:05:24,633 to reimagine, 130 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:27,533 shall we say, the hits. You know. 131 00:05:28,733 --> 00:05:31,200 I just felt like they stood where they stood 132 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:32,700 and that's fine. 133 00:05:32,700 --> 00:05:34,133 [SMITH] If someone's...those of us who remember those songs 134 00:05:34,133 --> 00:05:36,333 at the moment that they became hits, 135 00:05:36,333 --> 00:05:37,566 it would be a little strange for us 136 00:05:37,566 --> 00:05:38,766 to hear a different version of it. 137 00:05:38,766 --> 00:05:40,633 [CARPENTER] Well, I just wanted to dive deep. 138 00:05:40,633 --> 00:05:42,933 [SMITH] Right. [CARPENTER] The format for this record 139 00:05:42,933 --> 00:05:46,533 was to take these existing songs and the new song. 140 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,666 I worked with a new producer, new to me, 141 00:05:51,666 --> 00:05:54,633 the great Ethan Johns in England, 142 00:05:54,633 --> 00:05:57,233 with a group of musicians who had never, 143 00:05:57,233 --> 00:05:58,833 who weren't familiar with the music. 144 00:05:58,833 --> 00:06:00,166 [SMITH] So, they'd come into this stuff for the first time. 145 00:06:00,166 --> 00:06:02,000 [CARPENTER] Exactly, pretty cold to it. 146 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:06,300 And certainly, my feeling about it was 147 00:06:06,300 --> 00:06:08,500 that they were so open-hearted 148 00:06:08,500 --> 00:06:11,166 about what they gave to those sessions, 149 00:06:11,166 --> 00:06:13,500 but it was as if it was brand new. 150 00:06:13,500 --> 00:06:17,233 I would sit in the studio, we'd all gather around 151 00:06:17,233 --> 00:06:21,966 and Ethan's way of recording is completely old school, 152 00:06:23,166 --> 00:06:26,000 as well as, not having any isolation booths. 153 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:27,666 Even the drums were in the room. 154 00:06:27,666 --> 00:06:30,933 And it's Ethan's gifts for micing things 155 00:06:30,933 --> 00:06:34,566 that allow people to have a sense of being a part 156 00:06:34,566 --> 00:06:36,100 but all being together. [SMITH] Yup. 157 00:06:36,100 --> 00:06:40,133 [CARPENTER] And I would play the song for everybody 158 00:06:40,133 --> 00:06:43,833 and then, we would just start out on our journey. 159 00:06:43,833 --> 00:06:45,066 [SMITH] Yup, and this is different 160 00:06:45,066 --> 00:06:46,900 than you've recorded stuff previously. 161 00:06:46,900 --> 00:06:50,366 [CARPENTER] Well, it was similar, but in a sense 162 00:06:50,366 --> 00:06:54,833 that I've been lucky enough to do it old school 163 00:06:54,833 --> 00:06:58,866 as opposed to emailing tracks to people. 164 00:06:58,866 --> 00:07:01,900 I've been lucky enough to have enough of a budget 165 00:07:01,900 --> 00:07:03,566 to be able to do it all together. 166 00:07:03,566 --> 00:07:05,066 [SMITH] Again, like the titles of songs, 167 00:07:05,066 --> 00:07:07,700 we don't think about the story behind the process 168 00:07:07,700 --> 00:07:09,100 of making a record, 169 00:07:09,100 --> 00:07:10,333 and you just told me something very interesting. 170 00:07:10,333 --> 00:07:11,533 I didn't know that this record was done 171 00:07:11,533 --> 00:07:12,833 with all the musicians in the room. 172 00:07:12,833 --> 00:07:14,800 [CARPENTER] Yes. [SMITH] Ordinarily, these songs 173 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,733 or songs like these are put together. 174 00:07:16,733 --> 00:07:18,333 [CARPENTER] Well-- [SMITH] Right, they assemble 175 00:07:18,333 --> 00:07:19,700 the tracks. 176 00:07:19,700 --> 00:07:20,900 [CARPENTER] It's certainly, that's one way, 177 00:07:20,900 --> 00:07:22,966 but in the way I've been, 178 00:07:24,133 --> 00:07:25,666 the way I've done it in the past, 179 00:07:25,666 --> 00:07:27,566 and the way that many people still do it, 180 00:07:27,566 --> 00:07:31,833 is to be in the studio, and to kind of, 181 00:07:31,833 --> 00:07:33,533 track it all at once, 182 00:07:33,533 --> 00:07:37,000 wait until later to do overdubs. 183 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:38,233 [SMITH] Right. 184 00:07:38,233 --> 00:07:41,066 [CARPENTER] But you are in separate rooms. 185 00:07:41,066 --> 00:07:42,266 [SMITH] Yeah, right, and that-- 186 00:07:42,266 --> 00:07:44,000 [CARPENTER] And that's a technical-- 187 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:45,433 There's a technical reason for that. 188 00:07:45,433 --> 00:07:46,700 [SMITH] I love this. 189 00:07:46,700 --> 00:07:47,933 So, you made very specific choices, 190 00:07:47,933 --> 00:07:49,166 as you said about the songs to cover. 191 00:07:49,166 --> 00:07:49,966 [CARPENTER] Yeah. [SMITH] Is there a, 192 00:07:49,966 --> 00:07:51,500 generally speaking, 193 00:07:51,500 --> 00:07:53,366 I've always wanted to understand this better, 194 00:07:53,366 --> 00:07:56,300 when you think about covering another song, 195 00:07:56,300 --> 00:07:58,733 someone else's song or your own song, 196 00:07:58,733 --> 00:08:02,633 the criteria for what makes a song worth covering 197 00:08:02,633 --> 00:08:04,100 or able to be covered. 198 00:08:04,100 --> 00:08:08,366 [CARPENTER] I will give you what I think is the only example 199 00:08:08,366 --> 00:08:10,233 I could give you from my own experience. 200 00:08:10,233 --> 00:08:11,733 - [SMITH] Yeah. 201 00:08:11,733 --> 00:08:15,833 - So, I sing the song by Lucinda Williams called-- 202 00:08:15,833 --> 00:08:16,766 [SMITH] I'm so glad you... 203 00:08:16,766 --> 00:08:18,000 I wanna know the story of this. 204 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,466 [CARPENTER] "Passionate Kisses." [SMITH] Right. 205 00:08:19,466 --> 00:08:21,366 And you recorded it five years after she did, right? 206 00:08:21,366 --> 00:08:22,900 Or four, five years? 207 00:08:22,900 --> 00:08:24,366 [CARPENTER] I'm not exactly sure what the timeline is, 208 00:08:24,366 --> 00:08:29,300 but, I, it was her rough trade record, 209 00:08:30,466 --> 00:08:33,933 and it was the early, early, or late '80s 210 00:08:33,933 --> 00:08:35,266 or early '90s. 211 00:08:35,266 --> 00:08:36,766 [SMITH] Yeah, I looked it up. [CARPENTER] Okay. 212 00:08:36,766 --> 00:08:38,833 [SMITH] Her record was 1988 and your record was 1993. 213 00:08:38,833 --> 00:08:41,233 [CARPENTER] Okay so, in the early nineties, 214 00:08:41,233 --> 00:08:44,033 and I forget what year, I'm gonna say '91 or '92, 215 00:08:45,033 --> 00:08:47,466 I was lucky enough to be invited 216 00:08:47,466 --> 00:08:51,166 to be on a tour with Rosanne Cash and Lucinda Williams 217 00:08:51,166 --> 00:08:52,566 to Australia. [SMITH] Wow. 218 00:08:52,566 --> 00:08:56,033 [CARPENTER] And it was just us three 219 00:08:56,033 --> 00:08:58,733 and we toured around Australia 220 00:08:58,733 --> 00:09:01,566 and it was in the round every night. 221 00:09:01,566 --> 00:09:03,800 Our guitar pool, is you know. 222 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,300 [SMITH] Yup. 223 00:09:05,300 --> 00:09:08,066 [CARPENTER] People refer to it, swapping songs and stories 224 00:09:08,066 --> 00:09:09,533 all at the same time. 225 00:09:09,533 --> 00:09:12,233 Lucinda would play all her great songs 226 00:09:12,233 --> 00:09:15,366 that I knew and loved from that record, Rosanne as well. 227 00:09:15,366 --> 00:09:17,900 I was a puppy-- 228 00:09:17,900 --> 00:09:19,900 [SMITH] Oh, could you imagine with those two, right? 229 00:09:19,900 --> 00:09:22,200 [CARPENTER] It was just, I couldn't get enough of it 230 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:23,633 and I have lots of stories about it 231 00:09:23,633 --> 00:09:25,100 but I'll just cut to the chase. 232 00:09:25,100 --> 00:09:27,866 Said I loved "Passionate Kisses" 233 00:09:27,866 --> 00:09:29,966 and I loved singed along with it. 234 00:09:32,300 --> 00:09:35,200 Every night, Lucinda would, we'd walk off the stage 235 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:39,500 and I would just, you know, just embrace her, 236 00:09:39,500 --> 00:09:44,400 slobber all over her and tell her how much I love that song. 237 00:09:45,566 --> 00:09:47,233 And I think, finally, by the end of that tour, 238 00:09:47,233 --> 00:09:48,966 she just got so sick of me. 239 00:09:48,966 --> 00:09:50,766 (audience laughing) 240 00:09:50,766 --> 00:09:52,400 [SMITH] Fangirling her, right? [CARPENTER] Fangirling her, 241 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:53,833 and she said, "Oh, for God's sake, 242 00:09:53,833 --> 00:09:56,233 "just record the song, why don't you?" 243 00:09:56,233 --> 00:09:59,500 So, I felt that I needed and I felt 244 00:09:59,500 --> 00:10:02,133 that I got her blessing to do so. 245 00:10:02,133 --> 00:10:04,700 And so, I recorded that song 246 00:10:04,700 --> 00:10:09,466 and I was on Columbia at the time 247 00:10:09,466 --> 00:10:12,466 and I turned in that record 248 00:10:13,333 --> 00:10:15,966 and they didn't hear that song 249 00:10:15,966 --> 00:10:19,200 as a single and they didn't hear a lot of the songs 250 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,700 on that record as a single. 251 00:10:21,700 --> 00:10:23,333 [SMITH] Man, the record business. 252 00:10:23,333 --> 00:10:24,566 [CARPENTER] But, you know, that happens. 253 00:10:24,566 --> 00:10:29,266 And it's not for me to sit there and condemn it 254 00:10:29,266 --> 00:10:30,733 or criticize it. 255 00:10:30,733 --> 00:10:33,033 It's just, there's so many different components 256 00:10:33,033 --> 00:10:34,333 that go into it. 257 00:10:34,333 --> 00:10:37,966 That said, we were on the road at that time 258 00:10:37,966 --> 00:10:40,833 and the way it worked, what seem to, 259 00:10:40,833 --> 00:10:43,166 the way it was setup is that the record labels 260 00:10:43,166 --> 00:10:46,166 would have reps all over the country 261 00:10:46,166 --> 00:10:48,966 and wherever in, you know, 262 00:10:48,966 --> 00:10:50,466 checking in with you, 263 00:10:50,466 --> 00:10:53,333 and showing up at your gigs and so forth and so on. 264 00:10:53,333 --> 00:10:57,200 And I started, I was playing "Passionate Kisses" 265 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:01,300 in those shows it would go over so well, 266 00:11:01,300 --> 00:11:04,533 and the reps started to report back 267 00:11:04,533 --> 00:11:08,833 to the home office that, 268 00:11:08,833 --> 00:11:12,033 "You guys, should think about releasing that as a single." 269 00:11:12,033 --> 00:11:15,033 And it took that kind of momentum. 270 00:11:15,033 --> 00:11:16,533 [SMITH] To the ground up. [CARPENTER] Correct. 271 00:11:16,533 --> 00:11:19,966 For them to, sort of, go, "Oh, okay." 272 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,033 That's sort of how it happened. 273 00:11:23,033 --> 00:11:23,966 - And then it ended up being... 274 00:11:23,966 --> 00:11:25,433 I still think, if you ask people 275 00:11:25,433 --> 00:11:28,933 about your extraordinary body of work and career, 276 00:11:28,933 --> 00:11:32,233 that has to come up in the top three or four songs, 277 00:11:32,233 --> 00:11:34,633 if people think about. [CARPENTER] What I was gonna say and-- 278 00:11:34,633 --> 00:11:35,900 [SMITH] 'Cause I had to remind myself 279 00:11:35,900 --> 00:11:37,933 that it was Lucinda's song that you covered 280 00:11:37,933 --> 00:11:39,800 and not your song that she covered. 281 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,066 [CARPENTER] Oh, God. 282 00:11:41,066 --> 00:11:42,566 [SMITH] I honestly associate that song, 283 00:11:43,333 --> 00:11:44,866 in some ways, with you. 284 00:11:44,866 --> 00:11:46,666 [CARPENTER] Well so, to get back to your original question 285 00:11:46,666 --> 00:11:49,633 about, how do you decide, 286 00:11:49,633 --> 00:11:51,133 especially, like for myself, 287 00:11:51,133 --> 00:11:54,266 I have always been the purveyor of my own songs, 288 00:11:54,266 --> 00:11:58,700 and it's, maybe, two or three songs in my career 289 00:11:58,700 --> 00:11:59,533 that I've... 290 00:12:00,466 --> 00:12:03,900 outside songs that I've done. 291 00:12:03,900 --> 00:12:08,400 For me, it was the sense that "Passionate Kisses"... 292 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,766 First of all, over the years, I've played it with a, 293 00:12:13,233 --> 00:12:15,566 raise the roof rock band. 294 00:12:15,566 --> 00:12:18,433 I've played down slowed down, stripped back 295 00:12:18,433 --> 00:12:19,833 as a tender, 296 00:12:22,433 --> 00:12:24,066 bittersweet kind of thing. 297 00:12:25,066 --> 00:12:28,066 Not an anthemic kind of thing. 298 00:12:29,266 --> 00:12:32,000 And however I've presented it to me, 299 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:36,500 it represents a perfect vessel of songcraft. 300 00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:41,266 It speaks to the most basic, to the most human emotion 301 00:12:41,266 --> 00:12:44,166 in all of us, which is to love and to be loved. 302 00:12:44,166 --> 00:12:47,733 And in the most simple language. 303 00:12:48,666 --> 00:12:49,933 [SMITH] It's everything music 304 00:12:49,933 --> 00:12:51,200 is about in a lot of ways, right? 305 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:52,966 [CARPENTER] Yeah, and it's like... 306 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,633 I like to say that for the three and a half minutes or so 307 00:12:57,633 --> 00:13:00,866 that I get to inhabit that song, 308 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:03,733 it feels like the perfect song. 309 00:13:03,733 --> 00:13:06,866 - Am I remembering correctly that she won an award-- 310 00:13:06,866 --> 00:13:08,400 [CARPENTER] She won a Grammy. [SMITH] She won a Grammy 311 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,633 for having written that song that you recorded 312 00:13:11,633 --> 00:13:14,733 and...I think it's a wonderful story. 313 00:13:14,733 --> 00:13:15,966 It just tells me everything about. 314 00:13:15,966 --> 00:13:17,300 [CARPENTER] I may have this wrong 315 00:13:17,300 --> 00:13:18,466 and she may kill me for saying this, 316 00:13:19,633 --> 00:13:21,700 but I remember, I don't think she came 317 00:13:21,700 --> 00:13:23,266 to that particular Grammy ceremony 318 00:13:23,266 --> 00:13:25,933 because she was unhappy with her hair. 319 00:13:25,933 --> 00:13:27,400 (audience laughing) 320 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,266 [SMITH] You know what, it happens, right? 321 00:13:30,266 --> 00:13:31,233 [CARPENTER] It happens to all of us. 322 00:13:31,233 --> 00:13:32,366 [SMITH] It happens. 323 00:13:32,366 --> 00:13:33,500 - I wanna talk about you. 324 00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:34,700 We don't have an infinite amount of time 325 00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:35,933 but I wanna take some time, 326 00:13:35,933 --> 00:13:38,133 'cause I think your story is so great. 327 00:13:38,133 --> 00:13:41,433 So, I love... 328 00:13:41,433 --> 00:13:43,900 So, born in Princeton, New Jersey, 329 00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:45,400 went to school in Princeton, New Jersey 330 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,900 and Watertown, Connecticut, went to Brown University, 331 00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:50,433 then moved to Washington, DC. 332 00:13:50,433 --> 00:13:53,100 The classic country music origin story. 333 00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:54,400 (audience laughing) Right? 334 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,566 Who among has not gone to boarding school 335 00:13:56,566 --> 00:13:58,733 and Ivy League schools and come out on the other side 336 00:13:58,733 --> 00:14:00,966 and thought, country music, what a career. 337 00:14:00,966 --> 00:14:03,700 I'm just interested in how that happened. 338 00:14:03,700 --> 00:14:06,333 The input became then this unusual output. 339 00:14:06,333 --> 00:14:09,266 - The way I've put... 340 00:14:09,266 --> 00:14:12,600 It is an interesting circuitous route. 341 00:14:13,833 --> 00:14:16,500 I was living in Washington, DC, 342 00:14:16,500 --> 00:14:21,500 playing bars and clubs, and there's this iconic club 343 00:14:22,966 --> 00:14:25,266 called The Birchmere, just outside of Washington, DC. 344 00:14:25,266 --> 00:14:28,600 And the wonderful owner of The Birchmere, Gary, 345 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:32,900 was kind enough to allow me to open shows for people. 346 00:14:32,900 --> 00:14:34,333 And-- 347 00:14:34,333 --> 00:14:35,166 [SMITH] You were like literally just out of school 348 00:14:35,166 --> 00:14:36,700 at this point, right? 349 00:14:36,700 --> 00:14:37,933 [CARPENTER] Oh well, I mean I was-- [SMITH] Couple of years. 350 00:14:37,933 --> 00:14:38,866 [CARPENTER] Yeah, couple of years. 351 00:14:38,866 --> 00:14:41,100 I was just doing temp work and-- 352 00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:42,600 [SMITH] Mid '80s. 353 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:43,566 [CARPENTER] I was trying to figure what I was really going 354 00:14:43,566 --> 00:14:44,833 to do with my life. 355 00:14:44,833 --> 00:14:45,800 I mean, that's the truth. 356 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,200 I-- 357 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:48,366 [SMITH] You were an American Civilizations major 358 00:14:48,366 --> 00:14:49,600 when you had it at Brown, right? 359 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:50,833 [CARPENTER] That's right, that's right. 360 00:14:50,833 --> 00:14:52,333 [SMITH] This was not, again, academically, 361 00:14:52,333 --> 00:14:53,866 or anything else, did not point you in this direction. 362 00:14:53,866 --> 00:14:56,066 [CARPENTER] Yeah, no, I was living in group houses in DC 363 00:14:56,066 --> 00:14:59,666 and just trying to make my rent and try if... 364 00:14:59,666 --> 00:15:01,333 I was going to do something else, 365 00:15:01,333 --> 00:15:04,433 I just hadn't figured it out yet. 366 00:15:04,433 --> 00:15:08,600 And I do remember coming to a point in my life 367 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,500 where I just didn't want to haul my 368 00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:15,800 cruddy sound system 369 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,033 up another flight of stairs to another bar. 370 00:15:19,033 --> 00:15:21,100 And I reached this point where I just said, 371 00:15:21,100 --> 00:15:23,500 you know what, I think it's time for me 372 00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:25,466 to just find that real job. 373 00:15:25,466 --> 00:15:26,866 [SMITH] Get out of this, right? [CARPENTER] Yeah. 374 00:15:26,866 --> 00:15:29,566 And I remember, this is in the day, 375 00:15:29,566 --> 00:15:31,600 again, such a different time now, 376 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:36,600 but scanning the classifieds and looking for anything 377 00:15:38,066 --> 00:15:40,133 that would take a Liberal Arts major, just anything. 378 00:15:40,133 --> 00:15:42,133 (audience laughing) 379 00:15:42,133 --> 00:15:44,133 I interviewed for a consulting firm 380 00:15:44,133 --> 00:15:46,733 in downtown K Street, DC, 381 00:15:46,733 --> 00:15:50,700 and as a researcher, 'cause what else was I going to? 382 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,033 [SMITH] You can be Kellyanne Conway today. 383 00:15:53,033 --> 00:15:55,366 [CARPENTER] Oh Jesus. (audience laughing) 384 00:15:58,433 --> 00:15:59,666 [SMITH] It's a good line for... 385 00:15:59,666 --> 00:16:00,633 It's a good line for PBS, actually. 386 00:16:02,533 --> 00:16:04,033 Couldn't turn out differently. 387 00:16:04,033 --> 00:16:05,333 [CARPENTER] I wish I had come back for that but... 388 00:16:05,333 --> 00:16:07,233 (audience laughing) 389 00:16:07,233 --> 00:16:12,233 But I remember interviewing, consulting firm, 390 00:16:13,666 --> 00:16:15,033 the woman, it's as if she couldn't come right out 391 00:16:15,033 --> 00:16:16,266 and say, "I'll hire you," 392 00:16:16,266 --> 00:16:17,466 but she was sort of saying, 393 00:16:17,466 --> 00:16:18,833 "If I offer you this job, will you take it?" 394 00:16:18,833 --> 00:16:20,866 I'm like, I'll take anything. 395 00:16:20,866 --> 00:16:22,733 I'll make coffee, I'll do anything. 396 00:16:22,733 --> 00:16:27,733 And it was a Friday and that Monday, no, no, no. 397 00:16:29,100 --> 00:16:31,266 She called me on a Friday, and she said, 398 00:16:31,266 --> 00:16:33,600 "We'd like to offer you this job." 399 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,633 And I had this moment of (gasps), oh. 400 00:16:38,833 --> 00:16:39,666 And I said, 401 00:16:41,166 --> 00:16:43,700 "Would you give me the weekend to think about it?" 402 00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:47,133 And I could tell she was not happy 403 00:16:47,133 --> 00:16:51,366 and that weekend, I really thought about it. 404 00:16:51,366 --> 00:16:54,933 and I realized, it wasn't ready to give up music. 405 00:16:54,933 --> 00:16:56,400 [SMITH] To give up, right, yeah. 406 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,366 [CARPENTER] And it's not like I had some plan. 407 00:16:58,366 --> 00:16:59,400 It's not like I had-- 408 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:00,966 [SMITH] Yeah, but you knew. 409 00:17:00,966 --> 00:17:02,466 [CARPENTER] I just knew that I wasn't ready to... 410 00:17:03,666 --> 00:17:07,766 I just wanted to keep playing music somehow 411 00:17:07,766 --> 00:17:11,500 and I wasn't ready to completely abandon it as I knew it. 412 00:17:11,500 --> 00:17:13,000 And that Monday, I called her back 413 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,466 and I said, I'm so sorry, I can't accept the job. 414 00:17:15,466 --> 00:17:17,933 She was not happy, but then, 415 00:17:17,933 --> 00:17:20,166 it's as if, the way things go-- 416 00:17:20,166 --> 00:17:22,033 [SMITH] Right, fate intervenes, yeah. 417 00:17:22,033 --> 00:17:23,900 [CARPENTER] Yeah, and then I met a person 418 00:17:23,900 --> 00:17:25,600 who introduced me to a person, 419 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,066 who introduced me to a person, and yada, yada, yada. 420 00:17:28,066 --> 00:17:29,266 [SMITH] It all worked out. 421 00:17:29,266 --> 00:17:30,966 [CARPENTER] It just, things changed. 422 00:17:30,966 --> 00:17:32,433 [SMITH] And you were playing at that point 423 00:17:32,433 --> 00:17:34,233 what we would know or would've known at the time 424 00:17:34,233 --> 00:17:35,966 as folk music, sort of? 425 00:17:35,966 --> 00:17:37,733 Some folk, some country. 426 00:17:37,733 --> 00:17:38,566 [CARPENTER] To me, 427 00:17:40,100 --> 00:17:43,200 I wasn't, I am a singer-songwriter. 428 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,200 [SMITH] Without regard to genre-- [CARPENTER] Exactly. 429 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,133 [SMITH] You don't label yourself, this, that, or the other. 430 00:17:47,133 --> 00:17:51,166 [CARPENTER] Yeah, never have and when I found my... 431 00:17:51,166 --> 00:17:56,166 And so, just ever so briefly, the gentlemen at The Birchmere 432 00:17:57,333 --> 00:18:02,200 who was hiring me to open shows got a call, 433 00:18:03,633 --> 00:18:06,066 or was putting on a showcase for some Nashville artists 434 00:18:06,066 --> 00:18:08,800 who were coming up to DC at The Birchmere, 435 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,800 and they were just having a phone call about the logistics. 436 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,500 And in the process of the phone call, he said, 437 00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:18,633 "So, what else is going on in your world?" 438 00:18:18,633 --> 00:18:23,133 And Gary mentioned my name, and said, 439 00:18:23,133 --> 00:18:26,200 'cause he knew this, I had just made a tape 440 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,733 that I was carrying around in my back pocket and-- 441 00:18:29,733 --> 00:18:31,333 [SMITH] Isn't it amazing? 442 00:18:31,333 --> 00:18:33,766 [CARPENTER] Yeah, and this gentlemen, 443 00:18:33,766 --> 00:18:35,266 this scout from Columbia, 444 00:18:35,266 --> 00:18:37,500 guy named Larry Hamby said, 445 00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:40,533 "How do I get ahold of this tape? I'd like to hear it." 446 00:18:40,533 --> 00:18:41,733 And-- 447 00:18:41,733 --> 00:18:43,366 [SMITH] It's something as simple as that. 448 00:18:43,366 --> 00:18:44,800 [CARPENTER] As simple as that. [SMITH] The kindness of one person-- 449 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:46,300 [CARPENTER] Exactly. [SMITH] And you find that. 450 00:18:46,300 --> 00:18:47,733 Did you grow up with a lot of music in your house, 451 00:18:47,733 --> 00:18:48,933 like you have sisters, right? [CARPENTER] Yes. 452 00:18:48,933 --> 00:18:50,500 [SMITH] And records on in the house. 453 00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:52,833 [CARPENTER] And my father was a total jazz buff. 454 00:18:52,833 --> 00:18:55,800 My mother was a classical music aficionado 455 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,166 so we had music blasting in the house all the time. 456 00:18:58,166 --> 00:19:02,900 - You're kin to the Chapins by some-- Is it some, like distant? 457 00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:03,900 [CARPENTER] Who knows? 458 00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:05,466 Many, many, many years ago. 459 00:19:05,466 --> 00:19:07,966 [SMITH] The lore is that you and Tom and Harry Chapin 460 00:19:07,966 --> 00:19:09,366 are somehow connected, somehow, somehow, somehow. 461 00:19:09,366 --> 00:19:10,633 [CARPENTER] Well, many, many years ago 462 00:19:10,633 --> 00:19:12,100 at Kerrville Folk Festival, 463 00:19:12,966 --> 00:19:17,100 I met Tom Chapin and we decided 464 00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:19,166 that we must be related. 465 00:19:19,166 --> 00:19:20,400 (audience laughing) 466 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,033 [SMITH] So, like all important truths, 467 00:19:23,033 --> 00:19:24,900 it's more asserted than proven, right? 468 00:19:24,900 --> 00:19:27,366 That's it, it's an asserted relationship. 469 00:19:27,366 --> 00:19:28,866 What do you think about... 470 00:19:28,866 --> 00:19:30,733 You don't wanna yourself folk or country, 471 00:19:30,733 --> 00:19:33,033 but if you think about the Grammy Awards that you've won. 472 00:19:33,033 --> 00:19:34,133 [CARPENTER] Well, if you could just-- 473 00:19:34,133 --> 00:19:35,666 [SMITH] Yeah, please. 474 00:19:35,666 --> 00:19:39,633 [CARPENTER] Just, so I got signed by this gentlemen, 475 00:19:39,633 --> 00:19:44,633 Larry Hamby, to the Nashville Columbia label. 476 00:19:44,633 --> 00:19:46,133 [SMITH] The Nashville, slice of it. 477 00:19:46,133 --> 00:19:48,866 [CARPENTER] The Nashville office. [SMITH] Right, yeah. 478 00:19:48,866 --> 00:19:52,933 [CARPENTER] And the reason why I think that happened 479 00:19:52,933 --> 00:19:55,466 is that that was a time, it was the late '80s 480 00:19:55,466 --> 00:19:59,333 when country music was, 481 00:20:00,666 --> 00:20:03,966 it was like this wide open place, 482 00:20:03,966 --> 00:20:05,433 and there were people. 483 00:20:05,433 --> 00:20:09,366 That was the time when Lyle Lovett, Steve Earle, 484 00:20:09,366 --> 00:20:13,833 Rodney Crowell, Rosanne Cash, Nanci Griffith. 485 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,733 These extraordinary singer-songwriter artists, 486 00:20:20,733 --> 00:20:24,533 who, in my mind, what they all have in common, 487 00:20:24,533 --> 00:20:28,400 is they have story songs, they tell the stories 488 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,200 and that's what you've been saying. 489 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:35,200 And so, somehow, it was, 490 00:20:36,133 --> 00:20:37,800 they thought maybe-- 491 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,266 [SMITH] They just put you in-- [CARPENTER] Maybe I could be there. 492 00:20:39,266 --> 00:20:40,566 [SMITH] In the same category. [CARPENTER] So, I think, 493 00:20:40,566 --> 00:20:44,233 that is what I've always had in common with them 494 00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:47,266 in the sense that I've tried to tell stories with my music. 495 00:20:48,433 --> 00:20:52,300 And whether I neatly fit the profile or not, 496 00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:55,166 I think that's what allowed me to sort of find a niche. 497 00:20:55,166 --> 00:20:57,300 [SMITH] So, think about what Nashville country 498 00:20:57,300 --> 00:20:59,933 or country broadly has become through the years later. 499 00:20:59,933 --> 00:21:01,400 I mean-- [CARPENTER] It's very different. 500 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,766 [SMITH] You and Florida Georgia Line 501 00:21:03,766 --> 00:21:05,000 don't have a lot in common. 502 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,266 [CARPENTER] No, no we don't. 503 00:21:06,266 --> 00:21:07,800 [SMITH] And even if you go back 10 or 15 years, 504 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,800 you and what we're referred to contemptuously, 505 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,666 I don't think they saw you fairly as the "hat acts." 506 00:21:12,666 --> 00:21:15,033 You and Garth Brooks didn't have a lot in common. 507 00:21:15,033 --> 00:21:17,100 Country has become something else. 508 00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:18,966 Is there a place, still, I hope there is. 509 00:21:18,966 --> 00:21:20,266 The answer must be yes, you're here, 510 00:21:20,266 --> 00:21:22,133 you're still making records and touring. 511 00:21:22,133 --> 00:21:24,266 Is there a place for story songs? 512 00:21:24,266 --> 00:21:25,466 [CARPENTER] Oh, absolutely. [SMITH] For those... 513 00:21:25,466 --> 00:21:28,366 And how are we to think about that in terms 514 00:21:28,366 --> 00:21:29,866 of how the world has evolved? 515 00:21:29,866 --> 00:21:32,800 - Well, first of all, I think this could be a conversation 516 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,566 that we could talk for hours about. 517 00:21:34,566 --> 00:21:36,033 [SMITH] Hours about, it's right, yeah. 518 00:21:36,033 --> 00:21:39,700 - But the delivery system for music is so different now 519 00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:42,633 and the way people get their music is so different now, 520 00:21:42,633 --> 00:21:44,633 and it's not confined 521 00:21:44,633 --> 00:21:49,633 to what is on the radio. 522 00:21:49,633 --> 00:21:51,100 [SMITH] It's been democratized, hasn't it? 523 00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:54,333 [CARPENTER] The compartmentalization of radio, 524 00:21:54,333 --> 00:21:55,466 it's so different. 525 00:21:56,866 --> 00:22:00,500 So, you can explore, actually, what it feels like to me 526 00:22:00,500 --> 00:22:04,366 in a certain way, is when I grew up, 527 00:22:04,366 --> 00:22:06,266 I remember being 10 years old, 528 00:22:06,266 --> 00:22:09,533 and having a transistor radio, living in New Jersey 529 00:22:09,533 --> 00:22:13,133 and listening to 77 WABC. 530 00:22:13,133 --> 00:22:14,600 [SMITH] Oh, I remember that, yeah. 531 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,100 [CARPENTER] Cousin Brucie. [SMITH] Cousin Brucie. 532 00:22:16,100 --> 00:22:19,533 [CARPENTER] And you could hear Penny Lane, Motown, 533 00:22:19,533 --> 00:22:23,933 the Rolling Stones all in an hour, the same hour. 534 00:22:23,933 --> 00:22:28,933 So, that compartmentalization wasn't in play, 535 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,566 so you could be exposed to so many different things. 536 00:22:32,566 --> 00:22:35,333 That's, to me, kind of what life 537 00:22:35,333 --> 00:22:37,400 is like now in a wonderful way. 538 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:38,933 - And the streaming services allow you 539 00:22:38,933 --> 00:22:40,200 to get access to music. 540 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,466 It's, essentially, you don't need 541 00:22:41,466 --> 00:22:43,233 a big record company budget behind you-- 542 00:22:43,233 --> 00:22:44,600 [CARPENTER] That's right. [SMITH] Or big promotion budget 543 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,233 and satellite radio among other things. 544 00:22:46,233 --> 00:22:47,433 [CARPENTER] That's right. 545 00:22:47,433 --> 00:22:48,933 [SMITH] Now has these narrow verticals. 546 00:22:48,933 --> 00:22:53,200 [CARPENTER] And, to me, the most profound difference 547 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,033 is that as an artist, 548 00:22:57,033 --> 00:23:00,900 you can hang blankets in your bedroom, 549 00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:05,833 and create an environment where you can make, 550 00:23:05,833 --> 00:23:09,166 you can use your laptop to be your recording studio. 551 00:23:09,166 --> 00:23:10,300 [SMITH] The technology allows that, right. 552 00:23:10,300 --> 00:23:13,133 - The gatekeepers are gone, 553 00:23:13,133 --> 00:23:17,633 and that, to me, is the most exciting thing about our time. 554 00:23:17,633 --> 00:23:18,966 [SMITH] But to come back to 555 00:23:18,966 --> 00:23:20,466 where we started this conversation, 556 00:23:20,466 --> 00:23:21,966 with about a minute or two left, 557 00:23:21,966 --> 00:23:25,166 the Ethan Johns production of "Sometimes Just the Sky" 558 00:23:25,166 --> 00:23:27,366 is not you in your bedroom with blankets up 559 00:23:27,366 --> 00:23:28,900 on the wall and a laptop, 560 00:23:28,900 --> 00:23:31,400 you've actually gone old school on us in many ways 561 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,500 which I think is one of the more refreshing things about you 562 00:23:33,500 --> 00:23:38,400 is that times changed, planets realign, you are you. 563 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,466 Everybody else has changed, the world has changed, 564 00:23:40,466 --> 00:23:41,933 you're still you. 565 00:23:41,933 --> 00:23:45,533 And that's why it's so great to encounter you now 566 00:23:45,533 --> 00:23:49,500 because it feels like you haven't allowed fashion or fad 567 00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:51,233 to turn you into somebody you're not. 568 00:23:51,233 --> 00:23:52,966 - Well, thank you so much. 569 00:23:52,966 --> 00:23:54,833 [SMITH] And so, as you go, you look out now, 570 00:23:54,833 --> 00:23:57,100 you still are enjoying this, 571 00:23:57,100 --> 00:23:59,033 you still feel as motivated, energized, 572 00:23:59,033 --> 00:24:00,600 none of these is different than it was. 573 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,566 - It's even more, it's even sweeter. 574 00:24:04,566 --> 00:24:08,000 And I would say that after 30 some years 575 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,133 of making records, touring, 576 00:24:11,133 --> 00:24:14,933 I know how fortunate I am to be able to still do this, 577 00:24:14,933 --> 00:24:19,533 to still be able to find an audience. 578 00:24:20,933 --> 00:24:24,666 And it's not something I would ever take for granted 579 00:24:24,666 --> 00:24:26,166 because I know it's rare. 580 00:24:26,166 --> 00:24:28,166 [SMITH] The economics of it still work out to do this. 581 00:24:28,166 --> 00:24:29,633 [CARPENTER] They still work out, 582 00:24:29,633 --> 00:24:34,333 and you have to love what you do. 583 00:24:34,333 --> 00:24:38,800 And I've never felt more in love with songwriting. 584 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,633 I've never felt more in love and in need 585 00:24:42,633 --> 00:24:47,633 to feel that connection that happens in a live setting. 586 00:24:49,700 --> 00:24:54,700 The thing that I love to say, to thank the audience for, 587 00:24:56,100 --> 00:25:00,200 and it's absolutely the thing I feel most strongly about 588 00:25:01,566 --> 00:25:05,633 is to thank them for being there, for supporting live music 589 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,733 because we can get any song, any book, 590 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,233 any work of art, any poem, 591 00:25:13,233 --> 00:25:15,933 anything from that tracking device, 592 00:25:15,933 --> 00:25:19,300 but it's always going to be between us and that screen, 593 00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:21,533 and there's never going to be a substitute 594 00:25:21,533 --> 00:25:23,033 for being together, 595 00:25:23,033 --> 00:25:26,233 and the energy and the sense of being on a journey together 596 00:25:26,233 --> 00:25:31,233 that a live performance of some kind of art gives you. 597 00:25:31,233 --> 00:25:33,266 And we've never needed that more. 598 00:25:33,266 --> 00:25:34,733 [SMITH] Well, they don't need to come see you 599 00:25:34,733 --> 00:25:37,033 but they do and God knows why they come see you. 600 00:25:37,033 --> 00:25:39,900 So, Mary Chapin Carpenter, what a pleasure it is to see you 601 00:25:39,900 --> 00:25:40,866 and to be with you. [CARPENTER] Thank you so much. 602 00:25:40,866 --> 00:25:42,200 [SMITH] Thank you so much. 603 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:43,433 Good luck with everything going forward. 604 00:25:43,433 --> 00:25:44,900 Give her a big hand, Mary Chapin Carpenter. 605 00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:47,433 (audience applauding) 606 00:25:47,433 --> 00:25:49,866 [SMITH] We'd love to have you join us in the studio. 607 00:25:49,866 --> 00:25:53,933 Visit our website at klru.org/overheard 608 00:25:53,933 --> 00:25:56,133 to find invitations to interviews, 609 00:25:56,133 --> 00:25:58,166 Q&As with our audience and guests, 610 00:25:58,166 --> 00:26:01,000 and an archive of past episodes. 611 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,633 - It's a challenge, but I've been very fortunate 612 00:26:04,633 --> 00:26:09,633 in my life to travel with wonderful people, 613 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,733 and that makes a huge difference, think about it. 614 00:26:13,733 --> 00:26:16,100 Just, you're in a tiny space with people 615 00:26:16,100 --> 00:26:17,633 and you have to get along. 616 00:26:17,633 --> 00:26:22,633 So, I've been really fortunate to travel with great folks, 617 00:26:24,033 --> 00:26:26,400 Respectful, mutually supportive. 618 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,066 [NARRATOR] Funding for Overheard with Evan Smith 619 00:26:29,066 --> 00:26:31,900 is provided in part by Hillco Partners, 620 00:26:31,900 --> 00:26:34,333 a Texas government affairs consultancy, 621 00:26:34,333 --> 00:26:37,366 the Alice Kleberg Reynolds Foundation, 622 00:26:37,366 --> 00:26:41,233 Claire and Carl Stuart, and by Entergy. 623 00:26:42,100 --> 00:26:44,600 (soft music)