1 00:00:01,466 --> 00:00:02,866 [FEMALE NARRATOR] Funding for "Overheard with Evan Smith" 2 00:00:02,866 --> 00:00:04,733 is provided in part by 3 00:00:04,733 --> 00:00:06,200 Hillco Partners, 4 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,166 a Texas government affairs consultancy, 5 00:00:09,166 --> 00:00:11,200 Claire and Carl Stuart, 6 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,900 and by Laura and John Beckworth, 7 00:00:13,900 --> 00:00:16,533 The Hobby Family Foundation. 8 00:00:16,533 --> 00:00:18,000 [EVAN SMITH] I'm Evan Smith. 9 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,100 He's a four-time Grammy Award-winning blues musician 10 00:00:20,100 --> 00:00:22,700 whose latest album is "Oklahoma." 11 00:00:22,700 --> 00:00:24,133 He's Keb' Mo'. 12 00:00:24,133 --> 00:00:25,566 This is "Overheard." 13 00:00:25,566 --> 00:00:26,433 (upbeat electronic music) (audience applauds) 14 00:00:26,433 --> 00:00:27,700 Let's be honest. 15 00:00:27,700 --> 00:00:29,466 Is this about the ability to learn, 16 00:00:29,466 --> 00:00:31,033 or is this about the experience 17 00:00:31,033 --> 00:00:32,566 of not having been taught properly? 18 00:00:32,566 --> 00:00:34,066 How have you avoided 19 00:00:34,066 --> 00:00:36,566 what has befallen other nations in Africa? 20 00:00:36,566 --> 00:00:38,200 You could say that he made his own bed, 21 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:39,766 but you caused him to sleep in it. 22 00:00:39,766 --> 00:00:43,200 You know, you saw a problem and, over time, took it on. 23 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,166 Let's start with the sizzle before we get to the steak. 24 00:00:46,166 --> 00:00:47,466 Are you gonna run for president? 25 00:00:47,466 --> 00:00:49,033 I think I just got an F from you, actually. 26 00:00:49,033 --> 00:00:50,966 (audience laughs) This is "Overheard." 27 00:00:50,966 --> 00:00:55,933 (audience applauds) 28 00:00:56,833 --> 00:00:57,966 [SMITH] Keb' Mo', welcome. 29 00:00:57,966 --> 00:00:58,933 [KEB' MO'] Thank you, Evan. 30 00:00:58,933 --> 00:00:59,900 [SMITH] Good to be with you. 31 00:00:59,900 --> 00:01:01,200 [MO'] It's good to be here. 32 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:02,600 [SMITH] May I say, I don't believe 33 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,400 I've had a two-apostrophe guest in 17 years? 34 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:06,000 (laughs) 35 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:07,233 First time for everything, right? 36 00:01:07,233 --> 00:01:08,400 [MO'] Yes. 37 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,100 [SMITH] For the record, it's Kevin Moore. 38 00:01:11,100 --> 00:01:13,133 [MO'] Yes, that's my birth name. 39 00:01:13,133 --> 00:01:14,066 [SMITH] Birth name is Kevin Moore. 40 00:01:14,066 --> 00:01:16,033 [MO'] Kevin Roosevelt Moore. 41 00:01:16,033 --> 00:01:17,333 [SMITH] Kevin Roosevelt Moore. 42 00:01:17,333 --> 00:01:19,933 We have a former drummer of yours 43 00:01:19,933 --> 00:01:23,666 to thank for christening you or coining Keb' Mo', right? 44 00:01:23,666 --> 00:01:24,500 [MO'] Yes. 45 00:01:24,500 --> 00:01:25,433 [SMITH] Tell that story. 46 00:01:25,433 --> 00:01:27,300 [MO'] Well, there was a band 47 00:01:27,300 --> 00:01:30,633 called The Billy Mitchell Trio, 48 00:01:30,633 --> 00:01:33,400 and Quentin Dennard was the drummer in that band. 49 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,933 They played at a club called the Nucleus Nuance 50 00:01:35,933 --> 00:01:39,833 in L.A., durin' the late '80s and '90s. 51 00:01:39,833 --> 00:01:43,700 They didn't have a guitar player because it was a jazz trio. 52 00:01:43,700 --> 00:01:47,333 So I would go in and play for free. 53 00:01:47,333 --> 00:01:51,633 My job was to play along with the band. 54 00:01:51,633 --> 00:01:52,933 It wasn't really a job, 55 00:01:52,933 --> 00:01:54,366 It was just kinda, I would just come in-- 56 00:01:54,366 --> 00:01:56,400 [SMITH] It was a gig. [MO'] Whenever I felt like it. 57 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,000 And I would play the blues. 58 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,700 When it was blues time, I was on. 59 00:02:02,700 --> 00:02:06,566 So then, they'd go, "Keb' Mo', all right!" 60 00:02:06,566 --> 00:02:08,400 So with Kevin, you can't go like, 61 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:10,100 "Kevin Moore and the blues." 62 00:02:10,100 --> 00:02:11,566 (laughs) 63 00:02:11,566 --> 00:02:13,433 [SMITH] Kevin Moore is not much of a blues name. 64 00:02:13,433 --> 00:02:14,700 It's more like an accountant. 65 00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:15,700 [MO'] Yes. [SMITH] Right, I get that. 66 00:02:15,700 --> 00:02:16,833 (audience laughs) 67 00:02:16,833 --> 00:02:17,933 So, Keb' Mo', that's it. [MO'] Keb' Mo'. 68 00:02:17,933 --> 00:02:19,166 [SMITH] And it stuck. [MO'] Yeah. 69 00:02:19,166 --> 00:02:20,100 [SMITH] Let's start about Los Angeles. 70 00:02:20,100 --> 00:02:21,333 I wanna start, actually, 71 00:02:21,333 --> 00:02:23,366 in the reverse order I would ordinarily start. 72 00:02:23,366 --> 00:02:24,800 I'd want to talk about the record first, 73 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:26,266 and we'll get to the record, eventually. 74 00:02:26,266 --> 00:02:28,733 But I wanna talk about the origin story here of Keb' Mo'. 75 00:02:28,733 --> 00:02:30,900 So you grew up in Los Angeles? 76 00:02:30,900 --> 00:02:32,800 [MO'] Los Angeles, in the City of Compton. 77 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:34,900 [SMITH] City of Compton. 78 00:02:34,900 --> 00:02:37,233 Your parents, actually, were not from Los Angeles. 79 00:02:37,233 --> 00:02:38,733 They were from the Deep South, right? 80 00:02:38,733 --> 00:02:39,800 [MO'] Yes, they were from, 81 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,133 my mother was from Hooks, Texas, 82 00:02:42,133 --> 00:02:45,400 and my father was from Heflin, Louisiana. 83 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,700 [SMITH] Yeah, do you remember listening to music as a kid, 84 00:02:47,700 --> 00:02:48,933 in the house or? 85 00:02:48,933 --> 00:02:50,400 [MO'] We had some records in the house. 86 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,100 I remember like, the first record we had, 87 00:02:53,100 --> 00:02:54,400 not the first record we had, 88 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,400 but the record that I would listen to a lot 89 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,666 was not what you think the record I'd be listening to. 90 00:02:59,666 --> 00:03:02,133 I listened to Johnny Mathis' "Greatest Hits." 91 00:03:02,133 --> 00:03:03,066 [SMITH] Well, nothing wrong. 92 00:03:03,066 --> 00:03:05,466 (audience laughs and applauds) 93 00:03:05,466 --> 00:03:07,533 If we agree on nothing else, 94 00:03:07,533 --> 00:03:09,500 let's agree, nothing wrong with Johnny Mathis, right? 95 00:03:09,500 --> 00:03:10,966 [MO'] Johnny Mathis' "Greatest Hits" was a great album. 96 00:03:10,966 --> 00:03:12,200 [SMITH] That's a great record. 97 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,366 [MO'] It stayed on the charts forever, 98 00:03:14,366 --> 00:03:17,600 not unlike "Tapestry" or "Dark Side of the Moon." 99 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:22,200 It was a great record with great songs and great production. 100 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,700 So that was part of my introduction into music. 101 00:03:24,700 --> 00:03:27,000 [SMITH] Did you know from an early age 102 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:28,933 that this is what you wanted to do? 103 00:03:28,933 --> 00:03:30,633 Did you think, I wanna? 104 00:03:30,633 --> 00:03:32,933 I know there are a lot of stories about you as a young kid, 105 00:03:32,933 --> 00:03:34,433 you know, going to get your first guitar. 106 00:03:34,433 --> 00:03:35,833 I've heard, in fact, you interviewed on the subject 107 00:03:35,833 --> 00:03:37,266 of buying your first acoustic guitar 108 00:03:37,266 --> 00:03:38,733 and then, buying your first electric guitar, 109 00:03:38,733 --> 00:03:40,000 I think in a pawn shop, right? 110 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:40,800 [MO'] Yes. [SMITH] In Compton, right? 111 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:42,033 I've heard that story. 112 00:03:42,033 --> 00:03:43,600 I know that you kinda kicked around 113 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,333 and played at a young age with some other people. 114 00:03:46,333 --> 00:03:48,333 But I wonder what got you to think, 115 00:03:48,333 --> 00:03:49,800 this is something I wanna do? 116 00:03:51,066 --> 00:03:54,600 [MO'] Hmm, that's a long decision. 117 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,200 Because I wasn't one of these guys 118 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,233 that was like, "That's what I'm gonna do!" 119 00:03:59,233 --> 00:04:01,033 [SMITH] Yeah, you didn't have a moment of revelation, 120 00:04:01,033 --> 00:04:01,966 right, and that was it. 121 00:04:01,966 --> 00:04:04,000 [MO'] But it was in my late 30s. 122 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:05,533 (audience murmurs) [SMITH] In your late 30s? 123 00:04:05,533 --> 00:04:07,666 [MO'] When the actual moment of revelation came. 124 00:04:07,666 --> 00:04:09,300 [SMITH] Right, so you were just doing this 125 00:04:09,300 --> 00:04:10,533 for the time being. 126 00:04:10,533 --> 00:04:11,733 [MO'] I started out, 127 00:04:11,733 --> 00:04:14,366 and I was always coaxed into playing music. 128 00:04:14,366 --> 00:04:15,833 [SMITH] Coaxed, really? 129 00:04:15,833 --> 00:04:18,000 [MO'] Yeah, invited, so to speak. 130 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,233 "Hey, you wanna come play?" 131 00:04:20,233 --> 00:04:21,933 My first experience was playing the trumpet 132 00:04:21,933 --> 00:04:26,133 in the fifth grade at General Rosecrans Elementary School. 133 00:04:26,133 --> 00:04:29,333 My mother said, "Do you wanna try for the band at school? 134 00:04:29,333 --> 00:04:30,166 "You wanna play music?" 135 00:04:30,166 --> 00:04:31,300 I said, "No." 136 00:04:31,300 --> 00:04:32,433 (audience chuckles) And I said, 137 00:04:32,433 --> 00:04:33,366 she looked and she, 138 00:04:33,366 --> 00:04:34,566 you didn't say no to my mother. 139 00:04:34,566 --> 00:04:35,300 [SMITH] Right. (audience laughs) 140 00:04:35,300 --> 00:04:36,133 I'm not asking. 141 00:04:36,133 --> 00:04:37,400 I'm telling, right? 142 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,366 [MO'] She says, she says, she says, "Oh! 143 00:04:39,366 --> 00:04:40,800 "Well, you gonna play something." 144 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,633 (laughs) 145 00:04:44,633 --> 00:04:46,900 [SMITH] Your mother was everybody's mother, I have to say. 146 00:04:46,900 --> 00:04:48,166 We've all had a version of that story. 147 00:04:48,166 --> 00:04:49,433 [MO'] So I went. 148 00:04:49,433 --> 00:04:52,466 They tried me out, and I ended up on the trumpet. 149 00:04:52,466 --> 00:04:55,900 The following year we moved, and I went to a new school. 150 00:04:55,900 --> 00:04:58,333 They kicked me out of the band 151 00:04:58,333 --> 00:05:00,366 'cause my grades weren't good enough. 152 00:05:00,366 --> 00:05:01,833 They were good at the other school, 153 00:05:01,833 --> 00:05:05,500 but the next school was kinda like, different deal. 154 00:05:05,500 --> 00:05:08,233 So I got kicked out of the band. 155 00:05:08,233 --> 00:05:10,366 So then, we moved again. 156 00:05:10,366 --> 00:05:14,066 And that's the house that we stayed in for the next, 157 00:05:14,066 --> 00:05:15,266 that house is, 158 00:05:15,266 --> 00:05:16,600 I still, I own that house right now. 159 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:17,833 [SMITH] Still? [MO'] Yeah, that house, 160 00:05:17,833 --> 00:05:20,966 I bought that house when I was in Compton. 161 00:05:20,966 --> 00:05:23,533 So we stayed there, 162 00:05:23,533 --> 00:05:28,533 and on that block was Chuck Count T. 163 00:05:28,533 --> 00:05:31,333 He had a steel band, 164 00:05:31,333 --> 00:05:33,000 playing music from Trinidad, calypso music. 165 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:34,533 [SMITH] Calypso music, right, yeah. 166 00:05:34,533 --> 00:05:37,333 [MO'] And his son, Carlos, who is still my good buddy today, 167 00:05:37,333 --> 00:05:39,600 who lives in the neighborhood, 168 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:40,533 he says, "Hey, come down. 169 00:05:40,533 --> 00:05:42,166 "I wanna show you these drums." 170 00:05:42,166 --> 00:05:44,566 Meanwhile, I just got kicked out of the band. 171 00:05:44,566 --> 00:05:46,200 He started playin' these drums, 172 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,800 and he said, "Look at this," he says. 173 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,633 He played somethin'," da da da da da da da da. 174 00:05:50,633 --> 00:05:51,833 And I just played it right after, 175 00:05:51,833 --> 00:05:54,300 daga daga daga daga daga. (laughs) 176 00:05:54,300 --> 00:05:59,066 And so, I guess his dad got wind of that I could, 177 00:05:59,066 --> 00:06:00,600 you know, could do that. 178 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:01,800 [SMITH] We need you to come play with us, right? 179 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:03,000 Yeah! [MO'] Yeah, so next thing, 180 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:04,400 I'm in there, playin' a steel band now. 181 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:05,866 [SMITH] Right, it's interesting to me, you know, 182 00:06:05,866 --> 00:06:08,733 Johnny Mathis, and the steel band, calypso music. 183 00:06:08,733 --> 00:06:10,800 Over time you've played blues. 184 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,333 You've played what I think of really, 185 00:06:12,333 --> 00:06:14,433 as almost something like rock 'n' roll. 186 00:06:14,433 --> 00:06:19,000 You've had jazz, elements of jazz in your music, over time. 187 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,066 It's really hard to put you in a bucket 188 00:06:21,066 --> 00:06:22,633 or one category, right? 189 00:06:22,633 --> 00:06:24,933 That you're this kind, I mean, I called you a blues musician 190 00:06:24,933 --> 00:06:27,033 in the introduction to our conversation today. 191 00:06:27,033 --> 00:06:28,433 That's true, but not accurate. 192 00:06:28,433 --> 00:06:30,033 Really, you're a lot more than just-- 193 00:06:30,033 --> 00:06:31,166 [MO'] Well, there's not really such thing 194 00:06:31,166 --> 00:06:32,633 as a blues musician-- 195 00:06:32,633 --> 00:06:33,866 [SMITH] Right. [MO'] --or jazz musician. 196 00:06:33,866 --> 00:06:35,100 [SMITH] How do you talk about yourself, 197 00:06:35,100 --> 00:06:36,033 or how do you want people to think 198 00:06:36,033 --> 00:06:36,833 about the work that you do? 199 00:06:36,833 --> 00:06:38,266 [MO'] I'm a musician, 200 00:06:38,266 --> 00:06:40,066 but I don't think of myself as a master musician. 201 00:06:40,066 --> 00:06:42,500 I know music. 202 00:06:42,500 --> 00:06:46,533 I'm not a virtuoso on any particular instrument, 203 00:06:46,533 --> 00:06:47,500 but I know music. 204 00:06:47,500 --> 00:06:48,466 I know how it's built. 205 00:06:48,466 --> 00:06:49,733 I know the theory. 206 00:06:49,733 --> 00:06:51,833 I know the math of it. 207 00:06:51,833 --> 00:06:55,900 I have a reasonable amount of dexterity on a guitar 208 00:06:55,900 --> 00:06:59,700 and a banjo, or a mandolin, things like that. 209 00:06:59,700 --> 00:07:01,100 [SMITH] Right, you're being very modest. 210 00:07:01,100 --> 00:07:03,000 You have more than a reasonable amount of dexterity. 211 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:04,433 (laughs) 212 00:07:04,433 --> 00:07:07,633 [MO'] Clearly, you haven't heard Tommy Emmanuel. (chuckles) 213 00:07:07,633 --> 00:07:09,500 [SMITH] Well look, I think that if you go back, 214 00:07:09,500 --> 00:07:11,533 [MO'] (chuckles) [SMITH] As we sit here now, 215 00:07:11,533 --> 00:07:14,766 25 years since your first record, 216 00:07:14,766 --> 00:07:16,766 we go back and listen to that record today. 217 00:07:16,766 --> 00:07:20,766 There is more than just a reasonable amount of dexterity. 218 00:07:20,766 --> 00:07:22,200 And that was then, right? 219 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,366 Over time, obviously, you're a different musician 220 00:07:24,366 --> 00:07:27,033 than you were back then. 221 00:07:27,033 --> 00:07:29,033 [MO'] What I love is songwriting. 222 00:07:29,033 --> 00:07:31,400 You know, I think the songwriting factor, 223 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:32,600 all that leads up to there. 224 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,433 Like I say, I was always coaxed into things. 225 00:07:35,433 --> 00:07:36,866 I could tell you story after story, 226 00:07:36,866 --> 00:07:41,366 but just know that I wasn't the impetus for the 227 00:07:43,033 --> 00:07:44,866 goin' in there, you know. 228 00:07:44,866 --> 00:07:46,633 But I loved music. 229 00:07:46,633 --> 00:07:47,833 I always loved music. 230 00:07:47,833 --> 00:07:49,333 I'm really thankful for those people 231 00:07:49,333 --> 00:07:52,333 who did invite and coax me into musical situations 232 00:07:52,333 --> 00:07:54,333 because I wouldn't be standing here now without them. 233 00:07:54,333 --> 00:07:57,300 [SMITH] Well, no success is your success. 234 00:07:57,300 --> 00:07:58,233 It's everyone's success. 235 00:07:58,233 --> 00:07:59,166 All of us feel that way, right? 236 00:07:59,166 --> 00:08:00,533 Everybody contributed to it. 237 00:08:00,533 --> 00:08:03,366 [MO'] Yeah, so I played the steel drums, 238 00:08:03,366 --> 00:08:06,166 and then in high school, I played French horn. 239 00:08:06,166 --> 00:08:09,166 So I was in the Compton Community Youth or Compton. 240 00:08:09,166 --> 00:08:10,966 Actually, when I was in Compton, we had, 241 00:08:10,966 --> 00:08:13,466 there was a symphony in Compton. 242 00:08:13,466 --> 00:08:15,500 It was a junior symphony in the 60s, in Compton, 243 00:08:15,500 --> 00:08:19,033 and I was in it, playin' the French horn. 244 00:08:19,033 --> 00:08:21,566 'Cause I was very first French horn at the high school, 245 00:08:21,566 --> 00:08:22,766 and the first French horn person 246 00:08:22,766 --> 00:08:24,733 got to go play in the orchestra. 247 00:08:24,733 --> 00:08:27,066 [SMITH] It's amazing, French horn. 248 00:08:27,066 --> 00:08:28,333 [MO'] Yeah (chuckles) [SMITH] Probably all over 249 00:08:28,333 --> 00:08:29,500 the country, there are kids who are thinking, 250 00:08:29,500 --> 00:08:30,733 I'm playing the French horn in school. 251 00:08:30,733 --> 00:08:31,933 This is going to amount to nothing. 252 00:08:31,933 --> 00:08:33,933 This is like being a math major. 253 00:08:33,933 --> 00:08:35,300 [MO'] Yeah, and it didn't amount to much, 254 00:08:35,300 --> 00:08:36,866 but I was in the band. 255 00:08:36,866 --> 00:08:38,266 It wasn't about the-- [SMITH] Well, if you're around 256 00:08:38,266 --> 00:08:39,500 the stuff, that's what happens, right? 257 00:08:39,500 --> 00:08:41,700 [MO'] It's about being in the band. 258 00:08:41,700 --> 00:08:43,433 I met these two guys, 259 00:08:43,433 --> 00:08:46,600 and they were in the band, playing French horn. 260 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:47,533 I was hangin' with them. 261 00:08:47,533 --> 00:08:48,766 They said, "Why don't you come? 262 00:08:48,766 --> 00:08:50,000 "They may need another French horn player. 263 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:50,966 "Why don't you play it?" 264 00:08:50,966 --> 00:08:51,900 It was not glamorous. 265 00:08:51,900 --> 00:08:52,833 French horn was not glamorous. 266 00:08:52,833 --> 00:08:53,766 [SMITH] Yeah, I can imagine. 267 00:08:53,766 --> 00:08:54,733 It's not glamorous, right, yeah. 268 00:08:54,733 --> 00:08:56,200 It's the French horn. 269 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,800 [MO'] I hadn't been playing trumpet for years, and that was. 270 00:08:58,800 --> 00:08:59,900 The teacher said, "Okay, here! 271 00:08:59,900 --> 00:09:01,133 "It's the French horn. 272 00:09:01,133 --> 00:09:02,100 "Get in line!" (audience chuckles) 273 00:09:02,100 --> 00:09:03,200 And I was in the marching band. 274 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:04,900 [SMITH] That's pretty great. 275 00:09:04,900 --> 00:09:06,900 [MO'] (laughs) [SMITH] What was your way, 276 00:09:06,900 --> 00:09:09,100 Keb', into the business, into the music business? 277 00:09:09,100 --> 00:09:11,000 You started out not actually as a performer. 278 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,366 You started out working in the business, 279 00:09:12,366 --> 00:09:14,366 but not performing, right? 280 00:09:14,366 --> 00:09:15,766 [MO'] I was performing. 281 00:09:15,766 --> 00:09:18,233 The steel band had gigs. 282 00:09:18,233 --> 00:09:19,366 [SMITH] But I'm talking about the real, 283 00:09:19,366 --> 00:09:20,733 like honest-to-goodness music business, 284 00:09:20,733 --> 00:09:21,933 recording business, right. 285 00:09:21,933 --> 00:09:25,300 [MO'] Oh, that started in Dallas, Texas, 286 00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:27,833 when I was in a play called "Spunk" 287 00:09:27,833 --> 00:09:32,300 at the Dallas Repertory Theater. 288 00:09:32,300 --> 00:09:36,200 I was a guitar man in that thing. 289 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:40,200 I was playing acoustic, you know, 290 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,700 country blues part and singing. 291 00:09:42,700 --> 00:09:45,733 A woman came up and asked if I had anything to sell. 292 00:09:45,733 --> 00:09:47,033 Her name was Vicky. 293 00:09:47,033 --> 00:09:49,200 She said, "Do you have anything to sell?" 294 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:50,433 I said, "No." 295 00:09:50,433 --> 00:09:51,900 She said, "Why don't you have anything to sell? 296 00:09:51,900 --> 00:09:53,566 "What do you mean, you don't have anything to sell?" 297 00:09:53,566 --> 00:09:57,533 She just like, just reamed my you-know-what 298 00:09:57,533 --> 00:09:59,066 about not having anything to sell. 299 00:09:59,066 --> 00:10:00,733 So I got somethin' to sell. 300 00:10:00,733 --> 00:10:02,366 I took some of my tapes that I had brought with me, 301 00:10:02,366 --> 00:10:03,833 and I put them together-- [SMITH] Put it together. 302 00:10:03,833 --> 00:10:07,466 [MO'] --and went to a studio in Dallas. 303 00:10:07,466 --> 00:10:10,200 Had 'em run off a hundred cassettes. 304 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,400 I had a guy draw up a little character of me. 305 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,266 I went to Kinkos, put it on a piece of paper, 306 00:10:15,266 --> 00:10:16,500 (audience laughs) put it in there, 307 00:10:16,500 --> 00:10:17,733 folded it up and put it in there, 308 00:10:17,733 --> 00:10:19,000 cut it just right and then-- 309 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,233 [SMITH] Total DIY deal, right, yeah. 310 00:10:20,233 --> 00:10:21,700 [MO'] I did a hundred of those-- 311 00:10:21,700 --> 00:10:22,866 [SMITH] Hundred of those-- [MO'] and put 'em up. 312 00:10:22,866 --> 00:10:23,800 [SMITH] and started selling them. 313 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:24,466 [MO'] And I sold all of them. 314 00:10:24,466 --> 00:10:25,700 I made $1,000! 315 00:10:25,700 --> 00:10:27,233 [SMITH] Did you? (audience laughs) 316 00:10:27,233 --> 00:10:28,700 You probably never thought in a million years, right? 317 00:10:28,700 --> 00:10:30,433 [MO'] And that's the point when I was in the music business! 318 00:10:30,433 --> 00:10:33,100 (laughs) (audience applauds) 319 00:10:33,100 --> 00:10:35,100 [SMITH] $1,000 is real money, right? 320 00:10:35,100 --> 00:10:37,166 [MO'] That's right. [SMITH] That's real money. 321 00:10:37,166 --> 00:10:40,466 So you've just had your first studio album, 322 00:10:40,466 --> 00:10:44,033 solo studio album come out in the summer of 2019, 323 00:10:44,033 --> 00:10:45,833 in five years, right? 324 00:10:45,833 --> 00:10:48,666 First studio album in five years, right, "Oklahoma"? 325 00:10:48,666 --> 00:10:52,033 [MO'] No, I have a solo one called "Blues Americana." 326 00:10:52,033 --> 00:10:53,233 [SMITH] But that was 2014. 327 00:10:53,233 --> 00:10:54,200 [MO'] Oh yeah, yeah, you're right. 328 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:55,466 [SMITH] So it's five years. 329 00:10:55,466 --> 00:10:56,300 [MO'] You're better at math than I am. 330 00:10:56,300 --> 00:10:57,833 (audience laughs) 331 00:10:57,833 --> 00:10:59,166 [SMITH] There's a lotta things you can do that I can't do, 332 00:10:59,166 --> 00:11:00,966 beginning with the French horn. 333 00:11:00,966 --> 00:11:03,533 But I know that it's been five years since the last record, 334 00:11:03,533 --> 00:11:05,266 and I think people were waiting around to see what this was. 335 00:11:05,266 --> 00:11:06,733 This is a really pretty terrific record, 336 00:11:06,733 --> 00:11:09,000 this record "Oklahoma." [MO'] Oh, thank you so much. 337 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:10,200 [SMITH] There are so many songs on it. 338 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:11,333 I mentioned to you, before we came out here, 339 00:11:11,333 --> 00:11:13,300 that when I've listened to the record, 340 00:11:13,300 --> 00:11:14,533 they've stuck in my head. 341 00:11:14,533 --> 00:11:16,500 I find myself thinking about the songs 342 00:11:16,500 --> 00:11:18,066 when I'm not listening to it. 343 00:11:18,066 --> 00:11:19,233 Would you talk a little bit 344 00:11:19,233 --> 00:11:20,466 about how this record came to pass? 345 00:11:20,466 --> 00:11:22,233 I mean, there are a lot of interesting stories 346 00:11:22,233 --> 00:11:23,500 about this record. 347 00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:24,433 One thing is that it's dedicated to your mom. 348 00:11:24,433 --> 00:11:25,466 Your mom passed away last year-- 349 00:11:25,466 --> 00:11:26,900 [MO'] Yeah. [SMITH] --right? 350 00:11:26,900 --> 00:11:28,600 It's got personal aspects to it, I understand. 351 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,133 But talk about this record and why it's called "Oklahoma." 352 00:11:32,133 --> 00:11:33,833 [MO'] Okay well, it started out, 353 00:11:33,833 --> 00:11:35,400 I called my friend Colin Linden. 354 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:37,033 I said, "Man, I'm tired. 355 00:11:37,033 --> 00:11:38,300 "Come help me make this record." 356 00:11:38,300 --> 00:11:40,166 "Come, you know, help me." 357 00:11:40,166 --> 00:11:42,333 So he coproduced with me. 358 00:11:42,333 --> 00:11:43,633 I sent him the songs. 359 00:11:43,633 --> 00:11:45,533 I went through all my computer 360 00:11:45,533 --> 00:11:47,633 and looked at all these things that I had written. 361 00:11:47,633 --> 00:11:49,066 I said, "Aw." 362 00:11:49,066 --> 00:11:50,200 I'm thinking, I'm gonna have to write 363 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,666 a whole album in two weeks. 364 00:11:52,666 --> 00:11:54,366 Colin calls me back. 365 00:11:54,366 --> 00:11:55,766 He says, "I don't know, man. 366 00:11:55,766 --> 00:11:57,400 "I think you got a record here." 367 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:58,366 You know? 368 00:11:58,366 --> 00:11:59,900 [SMITH] That's how this works 369 00:11:59,900 --> 00:12:01,400 for those of us who are not in this line of work. 370 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,433 You have a file on your computer where you just keep things 371 00:12:04,433 --> 00:12:05,900 that you're working on, ideas. 372 00:12:05,900 --> 00:12:07,766 [MO'] Throughout the year, there'll be writing sessions. 373 00:12:07,766 --> 00:12:08,800 You work with these people, everything. 374 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:10,133 [SMITH] So you don't just write 375 00:12:10,133 --> 00:12:11,100 when you have an album coming out. 376 00:12:11,100 --> 00:12:12,333 You just write when you write, 377 00:12:12,333 --> 00:12:13,133 and you just save it. [MO'] All the time, 378 00:12:13,133 --> 00:12:14,400 you always write. 379 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:15,600 You're always writin', and then you have it. 380 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:16,566 [SMITH] You're puttin' it in a pipeline-- 381 00:12:16,566 --> 00:12:17,733 [MO'] Mm-hmm. [SMITH] --right? 382 00:12:17,733 --> 00:12:18,966 [MO'] So the story about "Oklahoma," to me, 383 00:12:18,966 --> 00:12:20,433 is the most interesting thing about the album. 384 00:12:20,433 --> 00:12:22,433 Why is it called "Oklahoma"? 385 00:12:22,433 --> 00:12:26,866 So it was originally gonna be called "This Is My Home." 386 00:12:28,166 --> 00:12:31,633 But "Oklahoma" came up. 387 00:12:31,633 --> 00:12:34,733 The way it happened is, I had this idea, this riff, 388 00:12:34,733 --> 00:12:37,566 goin' dang dang dang adanga adanga da blanga da blanga. 389 00:12:37,566 --> 00:12:38,833 I'm just playin' it over and over 390 00:12:38,833 --> 00:12:41,066 about two weeks around Christmas time. 391 00:12:41,066 --> 00:12:42,033 I'm goin', "I like playing this. 392 00:12:42,033 --> 00:12:44,066 "It just feels good to play it. 393 00:12:44,066 --> 00:12:45,700 "I know it needs a hook." 394 00:12:45,700 --> 00:12:47,133 I'm goin', "Okay." 395 00:12:47,133 --> 00:12:48,066 I was in L.A. at my sister's house. 396 00:12:48,066 --> 00:12:49,066 I'm goin', 397 00:12:49,066 --> 00:12:51,266 ♪ Oklahoma ♪ 398 00:12:52,933 --> 00:12:54,400 I was like, "Oh that's crap!" 399 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:55,666 (laughs) 400 00:12:55,666 --> 00:12:57,233 [SMITH] You have no connection personally 401 00:12:57,233 --> 00:12:58,366 to the state of Oklahoma, right? 402 00:12:58,366 --> 00:13:00,233 [MO'] Yeah, I do have. 403 00:13:00,233 --> 00:13:01,433 I'll get to that. [SMITH] Okay. 404 00:13:01,433 --> 00:13:04,300 I thought the fact that it was "Oklahoma" 405 00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:07,000 was kind of this odd thing for that reason. 406 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,433 [MO'] I'll get into that. 407 00:13:08,433 --> 00:13:09,233 [SMITH] Okay, good. [MO'] I'll get into that. 408 00:13:09,233 --> 00:13:12,966 So I got this idea. 409 00:13:12,966 --> 00:13:14,466 New Year's Day, I have a party. 410 00:13:14,466 --> 00:13:15,766 My wife and I have a party at the house every year, 411 00:13:15,766 --> 00:13:17,200 and we invite everybody over. 412 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,466 We got food, liquor, music, everything. 413 00:13:20,466 --> 00:13:21,933 Everybody just comes over. 414 00:13:21,933 --> 00:13:24,433 Bring anybody you want and, you know, like that. 415 00:13:26,966 --> 00:13:29,300 My drummer, Marcus Finnie, when I do have a band, 416 00:13:29,300 --> 00:13:32,366 he says, "I want you to meet this lady, Dara Tucker. 417 00:13:32,366 --> 00:13:33,966 "You should write with her." 418 00:13:33,966 --> 00:13:35,466 You know what I mean? 419 00:13:35,466 --> 00:13:38,033 And I'm goin', "Okay, now that I got this record, 420 00:13:38,033 --> 00:13:40,400 "I don't have any songs." 421 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,533 So, I give it to her, and she comes over like the next day. 422 00:13:43,533 --> 00:13:45,900 I say, "Where are you from?" 423 00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:49,466 She says, "Oklahoma." (audience chuckles) 424 00:13:49,466 --> 00:13:51,433 Bing! (chuckles) [SMITH] Right, 425 00:13:51,433 --> 00:13:52,666 that's divine intervention. 426 00:13:52,666 --> 00:13:56,500 [MO'] So I've got an idea now, "Oklahoma." 427 00:13:56,500 --> 00:13:57,333 What about this? 428 00:13:57,333 --> 00:13:59,200 Let's just work on this. 429 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:00,900 I explained to her that I didn't have much of a connection. 430 00:14:00,900 --> 00:14:02,966 So we on the Wikipedia (audience chuckles) 431 00:14:02,966 --> 00:14:06,200 and started lookin' at stuff and thinkin' about, 432 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,333 what's happenin' in Oklahoma? 433 00:14:08,333 --> 00:14:09,766 I knew, 434 00:14:09,766 --> 00:14:12,033 I had been to Oklahoma and seen a tornado. 435 00:14:12,033 --> 00:14:14,433 Aftermath now of a tornado, that's a big one. 436 00:14:14,433 --> 00:14:16,233 I went there with Kenny Wayne Shepherd. 437 00:14:16,233 --> 00:14:17,766 We did a benefit. [SMITH] Did a benefit concert. 438 00:14:17,766 --> 00:14:18,666 I remember that, right. [MO'] Kenny Wayne Shepherd, 439 00:14:18,666 --> 00:14:20,000 Robert Randolph. 440 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,100 Like I said, we did a benefit. 441 00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:24,266 So I got to go look at this. 442 00:14:24,266 --> 00:14:29,233 I was like, "Oh, a tornado is no joke." (chuckles) 443 00:14:29,233 --> 00:14:30,966 That thing grinds like a meat grinder, 444 00:14:30,966 --> 00:14:32,166 but it's not meat. 445 00:14:32,166 --> 00:14:34,466 It's wood and steel and just all this stuff. 446 00:14:34,466 --> 00:14:35,400 [SMITH] Destruction left's so bad. 447 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:36,600 [MO'] It's so bad, definitely. 448 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,133 Also, I became friends with Garth Brooks 449 00:14:39,133 --> 00:14:42,000 and Vince Gill, guys from Oklahoma. 450 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,900 I started meetin' all these people from Oklahoma. 451 00:14:43,900 --> 00:14:45,200 I started really lookin' at the people 452 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:46,666 that are from Oklahoma. 453 00:14:46,666 --> 00:14:49,500 Even my favorite guitar player that I grew up with, 454 00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:51,733 David T. Walker, was born in Oklahoma, 455 00:14:51,733 --> 00:14:53,766 Timmy B. Schmit from the Eagles. 456 00:14:53,766 --> 00:14:56,800 Oklahoma is a state of great things. 457 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,733 [SMITH] So you have a connection to Oklahoma-ish. 458 00:14:58,733 --> 00:15:00,300 [MO'] It's a connection, but I kinda like 459 00:15:00,300 --> 00:15:03,166 had to dig and build it. [SMITH] Right, I'm a little worried 460 00:15:03,166 --> 00:15:05,233 you wrote the song based on what you read on Wikipedia. 461 00:15:05,233 --> 00:15:06,700 (audience laughs) This is actually, 462 00:15:06,700 --> 00:15:08,633 this has stuck with me. [MO'] No, no I know people. 463 00:15:08,633 --> 00:15:11,700 And the people were in the area, I'm thinkin' like. 464 00:15:11,700 --> 00:15:13,400 Garth Brooks is like, and Vince Gill, 465 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,566 those are some of the most down-to-earth, 466 00:15:17,566 --> 00:15:20,533 shameless, good people I've ever met. 467 00:15:20,533 --> 00:15:22,800 You know, Oklahoma, you know? 468 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,633 So I go, 469 00:15:25,633 --> 00:15:27,166 we write the song. 470 00:15:27,166 --> 00:15:30,300 And there's also, The Gap Band is from Oklahoma too, 471 00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:31,966 just so you know that. 472 00:15:31,966 --> 00:15:35,266 ♪ You dropped a bomb on me baby ♪ 473 00:15:35,266 --> 00:15:36,966 (laughs) So there's all that good stuff. 474 00:15:36,966 --> 00:15:38,066 [SMITH] There's good things in Oklahoma. 475 00:15:38,066 --> 00:15:39,533 I agree. [MO'] Uncle Charlie's 476 00:15:39,533 --> 00:15:40,633 from Oklahoma. [SMITH] I get it. 477 00:15:40,633 --> 00:15:41,866 I get it. [MO'] Uncle Charlie. 478 00:15:41,866 --> 00:15:43,066 [SMITH] So this is a record that actually, 479 00:15:43,066 --> 00:15:45,466 I don't think of you as a political-- 480 00:15:45,466 --> 00:15:46,700 [MO'] Oh, I'm political. 481 00:15:46,700 --> 00:15:47,633 - But I don't think of you as a political-- 482 00:15:47,633 --> 00:15:48,900 But you're not an expressly. 483 00:15:48,900 --> 00:15:49,966 Oh look, you're not Ani DiFranco, right? 484 00:15:49,966 --> 00:15:51,500 You're not a political artist 485 00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:53,000 in the sense of that you wear your politics on your sleeve-- 486 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:54,800 [MO'] No, I hide it. [SMITH] You hide it. 487 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,866 But you know, but there is a, 488 00:15:56,866 --> 00:15:59,400 I detected, I thought, a subtle 489 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,233 but unmistakable political vibe on this record. 490 00:16:03,233 --> 00:16:04,733 [MO'] Yeah. [SMITH] A little bit 491 00:16:04,733 --> 00:16:06,900 about the environment, a little bit about feminism 492 00:16:06,900 --> 00:16:09,200 and the place of women in society today. 493 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,100 You have a great collaboration on this record 494 00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:12,866 with Rosanne Cash-- [MO'] Rosanne Cash. 495 00:16:12,866 --> 00:16:14,400 [SMITH] --a song called "Put A Woman In Charge," right? 496 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,833 It's a really interesting and good song. 497 00:16:16,833 --> 00:16:18,900 And there's actually a discussion 498 00:16:18,900 --> 00:16:20,900 of immigration-- [MO'] Immigration, yeah. 499 00:16:20,900 --> 00:16:22,133 [SMITH] And the fact that you said, 500 00:16:22,133 --> 00:16:23,366 which I did not know until you said it, 501 00:16:23,366 --> 00:16:25,533 that you had intended the record to be called 502 00:16:25,533 --> 00:16:26,733 "This Is"-- [MO'] "My Home." 503 00:16:26,733 --> 00:16:29,066 [SMITH] "This Is My Home." 504 00:16:29,066 --> 00:16:31,333 You actually have a perspective on what's happening 505 00:16:31,333 --> 00:16:32,700 now, out in the world-- [MO'] Yeah. 506 00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:34,266 [SMITH] --about immigration as a subject. 507 00:16:34,266 --> 00:16:36,400 I think it's subtly visible. 508 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:37,566 Talk about that. 509 00:16:37,566 --> 00:16:38,366 I think that's really interesting. 510 00:16:38,366 --> 00:16:39,766 [MO'] That's right. 511 00:16:39,766 --> 00:16:41,833 I put the subject of immigration as a love story, 512 00:16:41,833 --> 00:16:44,033 not as a talk about people who come here, 513 00:16:44,033 --> 00:16:46,700 not goin' right at the issue. 514 00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:49,033 I wanted to humanize immigration, in a sense. 515 00:16:49,033 --> 00:16:50,366 [SMITH] But you get there, though. 516 00:16:50,366 --> 00:16:51,833 I think you walk away from it-- 517 00:16:51,833 --> 00:16:54,200 [MO'] Even in "Oklahoma," there's a big political thing 518 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,200 in there too that everybody misses. 519 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:58,933 [SMITH] Well, help us, give us the Easter egg. 520 00:16:58,933 --> 00:17:00,433 Show us the Easter egg in the song. 521 00:17:00,433 --> 00:17:01,933 [MO'] It's the bridge where I go like, 522 00:17:01,933 --> 00:17:05,400 "And over on Greenwood, Archer and Pine." 523 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,000 In the '20s, 524 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,933 one of the biggest race riots 525 00:17:11,933 --> 00:17:14,000 in Oklahoma, 526 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,766 back then, it was called Black Wall Street. 527 00:17:16,766 --> 00:17:19,466 And there was this community in Wall Street 528 00:17:19,466 --> 00:17:23,266 where these ex-slaves, you know, African Americans 529 00:17:23,266 --> 00:17:24,900 had figured out how to do business. 530 00:17:24,900 --> 00:17:26,533 They had a community. 531 00:17:26,533 --> 00:17:28,766 Probably a lot of it was because of segregation. 532 00:17:28,766 --> 00:17:30,800 And like people, you had to have your own stuff. 533 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,366 But word has it that a dollar would go 534 00:17:33,366 --> 00:17:35,466 around the community 30 times. 535 00:17:36,666 --> 00:17:40,233 And the community became very prosperous. 536 00:17:40,233 --> 00:17:42,633 And then on the other side of the tracks, 537 00:17:42,633 --> 00:17:45,700 in another part of Tulsa, Oklahoma, 538 00:17:45,700 --> 00:17:48,066 you think about racial tension back then. 539 00:17:48,066 --> 00:17:49,200 This is the '20s. 540 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:50,900 So... 541 00:17:52,566 --> 00:17:55,733 Some black men got accused of, 542 00:17:55,733 --> 00:17:59,366 you know, usually the thing of inappropriately 543 00:17:59,366 --> 00:18:01,200 something with a white woman. [SMITH] Right. 544 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,833 [MO'] They got wind of it, and it was already probably hot. 545 00:18:04,833 --> 00:18:08,633 And the white community literally came over 546 00:18:08,633 --> 00:18:11,333 and burnt and bombed the place down. 547 00:18:11,333 --> 00:18:13,666 [SMITH] Wow, so that's the reference. 548 00:18:13,666 --> 00:18:14,933 [MO'] Yeah, and it's like. 549 00:18:14,933 --> 00:18:19,033 It was squashed down in history for a few years, 550 00:18:19,033 --> 00:18:20,400 not in any history books. 551 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,433 It was very quiet, but it was the biggest 552 00:18:23,433 --> 00:18:24,966 race riot there ever was. 553 00:18:24,966 --> 00:18:26,766 [SMITH] Well, this record, whether you are interested 554 00:18:26,766 --> 00:18:28,100 in the politics of it or not, 555 00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:30,833 is a really great record to listen to. 556 00:18:30,833 --> 00:18:32,300 I wish you a lot of success with it. 557 00:18:32,300 --> 00:18:35,233 Can I completely pivot away from music for a second 558 00:18:35,233 --> 00:18:38,133 and ask you about your love of hats? 559 00:18:38,133 --> 00:18:39,533 (audience chuckles) [MO'] Yeah, man. 560 00:18:39,533 --> 00:18:41,466 Well, back in-- [SMITH] That's a nice hat. 561 00:18:41,466 --> 00:18:42,700 I like that hat. 562 00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:46,600 [MO'] I started goin' bald in, um, 563 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,700 1970. 564 00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:50,666 [SMITH] Is that right? [MO'] Yeah, 565 00:18:50,666 --> 00:18:52,933 and I went bald very slowly. 566 00:18:52,933 --> 00:18:54,600 [SMITH] I was about to say, you have been successful 567 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:55,966 in the getting bald department. 568 00:18:55,966 --> 00:18:57,133 [MO'] Yeah, no. 569 00:18:57,133 --> 00:18:58,366 [SMITH] You are successfully bald now. 570 00:18:58,366 --> 00:18:59,633 [MO'] But it was like really slow. 571 00:18:59,633 --> 00:19:03,633 I mean, I had hair 'til my mid-30s and late 40s, 572 00:19:03,633 --> 00:19:06,133 not late, my 40s. 573 00:19:06,133 --> 00:19:07,633 And it gradually, it finally just got. 574 00:19:07,633 --> 00:19:10,166 I just kept lower, cuttin' it lower and lower and lower. 575 00:19:10,166 --> 00:19:11,233 Finally got to the point where I was, 576 00:19:11,233 --> 00:19:13,200 "Oh, this is ridiculous, dude." 577 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:14,400 Just shave it all off. 578 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,733 And then, it looks like this now. 579 00:19:16,733 --> 00:19:18,000 (audience chuckles) [SMITH] Great, yeah. 580 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:18,933 (audience applauds) 581 00:19:18,933 --> 00:19:20,933 [MO'] I just need somethin', 582 00:19:20,933 --> 00:19:22,400 I just need somethin' to block out the light 583 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,500 from my head, shinin'. (audience laughs) 584 00:19:25,500 --> 00:19:27,833 [SMITH] But you said to me again, before we came out today, 585 00:19:27,833 --> 00:19:28,966 this kinda really caught my ear. 586 00:19:28,966 --> 00:19:30,166 I wanted to ask you about this. 587 00:19:30,166 --> 00:19:32,433 You said, "Buying a hat is an arduous task." 588 00:19:32,433 --> 00:19:33,266 [MO'] Yes. 589 00:19:34,466 --> 00:19:35,700 [SMITH] We could do 30 minutes on this. 590 00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:37,166 Why don't you do a shorter version of it? 591 00:19:37,166 --> 00:19:39,733 [MO'] Well, my friend, Colin Linden, he always says. 592 00:19:39,733 --> 00:19:42,133 He's very, you know, manly like I am, 593 00:19:42,133 --> 00:19:43,733 you know, on the top of the head. 594 00:19:43,733 --> 00:19:45,633 [SMITH] Quite bald. [MO'] He says, 595 00:19:45,633 --> 00:19:50,266 "A hat is not a toy." (audience laughs) 596 00:19:50,266 --> 00:19:54,066 So I mean, when you go lookin' for your hat, 597 00:19:54,066 --> 00:19:56,233 this becomes your haircut. 598 00:19:56,233 --> 00:19:57,166 [SMITH] Right well, that's interesting. 599 00:19:57,166 --> 00:19:58,666 [MO'] This is like, you know. 600 00:19:58,666 --> 00:20:01,800 This becomes your, 601 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,133 you know, either you can wear this. 602 00:20:04,133 --> 00:20:05,500 This is cool too. 603 00:20:05,500 --> 00:20:06,866 Or you can wear this. 604 00:20:06,866 --> 00:20:09,100 But this is like a haircut now. 605 00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:11,633 If you've ever had a bad haircut, you know-- 606 00:20:11,633 --> 00:20:13,566 [SMITH] You know what it's like. [MO'] Yeah. (chuckles) 607 00:20:13,566 --> 00:20:15,400 [SMITH] Sometimes, the answer to a bad haircut 608 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:16,366 is a hat, actually. 609 00:20:16,366 --> 00:20:17,300 [MO'] Yeah. (chuckles) 610 00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:18,533 [SMITH] As the case may be. 611 00:20:18,533 --> 00:20:19,600 [MO'] Just wait and just see 'em. 612 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:20,833 So it's like that. 613 00:20:20,833 --> 00:20:23,133 So buyin' a hat the right shape, brim. 614 00:20:23,133 --> 00:20:24,600 [SMITH] Well, it's become a signature piece 615 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:25,533 of your own style. 616 00:20:25,533 --> 00:20:26,766 We don't associate you 617 00:20:26,766 --> 00:20:29,133 with anything other than having a fine hat on. 618 00:20:29,133 --> 00:20:31,300 [MO'] And you can't find 'em, 619 00:20:31,300 --> 00:20:32,466 I can't find a bunch of hats 620 00:20:32,466 --> 00:20:34,900 'cause I have a really long head, too. 621 00:20:34,900 --> 00:20:36,166 Because there's some of 'em, they said, 622 00:20:36,166 --> 00:20:37,966 "Here come Kevin with the ol' football head." 623 00:20:37,966 --> 00:20:40,466 (audience laughs) 624 00:20:40,466 --> 00:20:41,433 [SMITH] I wouldn't have made the 625 00:20:41,433 --> 00:20:42,700 football head reference myself, 626 00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:44,766 but now I'm not gonna be able, not be able to-- 627 00:20:44,766 --> 00:20:47,166 [MO'] (laughs) [SMITH] Let's talk about 628 00:20:47,166 --> 00:20:50,200 a couple of things on you as we wrap here. 629 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,900 The first thing is, you are no longer livin' in Los Angeles, 630 00:20:52,900 --> 00:20:53,966 right, full-time? 631 00:20:53,966 --> 00:20:56,066 You have-- [MO'] I have a house in, 632 00:20:56,066 --> 00:20:57,333 not full-time but part-time, 633 00:20:57,333 --> 00:20:58,866 'cause I have a house in Compton. 634 00:20:58,866 --> 00:21:00,166 [SMITH] But you're living primarily in Tennessee? 635 00:21:00,166 --> 00:21:01,433 [MO'] Tennessee. Franklin, Tennessee. 636 00:21:01,433 --> 00:21:02,400 [SMITH] Why did you decide to move? 637 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:03,933 This is again, you know. 638 00:21:03,933 --> 00:21:05,800 It's not the Deep South in the sense that your parents were. 639 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,100 But it's the South though. [MO'] Well, my wife 640 00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:09,566 is from Wisconsin. 641 00:21:09,566 --> 00:21:11,466 We have a 12-year-old son. 642 00:21:11,466 --> 00:21:14,466 I was, um, 643 00:21:14,466 --> 00:21:17,366 She didn't like the attitude of Los Angeles, whatever. 644 00:21:17,366 --> 00:21:19,266 She didn't like somethin', somethin' she didn't like. 645 00:21:19,266 --> 00:21:20,833 She's, "Well, it's too crowded," whatever. 646 00:21:20,833 --> 00:21:23,700 And she tells me one day with teary eyes, she goes, 647 00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:25,833 "I don't wanna raise my son here." 648 00:21:25,833 --> 00:21:27,933 (audience chuckles) 649 00:21:27,933 --> 00:21:31,333 And I went, oh snap. (laughs) 650 00:21:31,333 --> 00:21:32,133 Okay, honey. 651 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:34,900 [SMITH] 'Cause you've been in that situation. 652 00:21:34,900 --> 00:21:36,366 [MO'] I know. [SMITH] Where are we goin'? 653 00:21:36,366 --> 00:21:39,433 [MO'] I saw the movin' trucks, comin'. (chuckles) 654 00:21:39,433 --> 00:21:42,433 [SMITH] But you're in Franklin, Tennessee. 655 00:21:42,433 --> 00:21:45,233 [MO'] Yeah. [SMITH] But does being in Tennessee, 656 00:21:45,233 --> 00:21:47,800 which is obviously a rich musical tradition 657 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,066 in the state of Tennessee. [MO'] Well, there was 658 00:21:49,066 --> 00:21:51,433 nowhere else for us to go 'cause of Nashville. 659 00:21:51,433 --> 00:21:55,366 [SMITH] How does it affect your thinking about music, 660 00:21:55,366 --> 00:21:58,633 about your own performance or your own collaborations? 661 00:21:58,633 --> 00:21:59,833 [MO'] It was like a fresh start. 662 00:21:59,833 --> 00:22:00,766 [SMITH] It was. [MO'] It didn't change 663 00:22:00,766 --> 00:22:01,966 my work style. 664 00:22:01,966 --> 00:22:03,300 It didn't change who I was, anything. 665 00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:05,933 But I found a whole fresh 666 00:22:05,933 --> 00:22:08,433 bunch of writers to collaborate with, 667 00:22:08,433 --> 00:22:10,133 musicians to collaborate with 668 00:22:10,133 --> 00:22:15,100 and a fresh perspective in doin' it there. 669 00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:17,766 It was like I just moved to a new school. 670 00:22:17,766 --> 00:22:19,566 [SMITH] So the work product, will we see, 671 00:22:19,566 --> 00:22:22,066 will we see a different work product as a result of there 672 00:22:22,066 --> 00:22:23,833 than we would have, had you not left the West Coast? 673 00:22:23,833 --> 00:22:25,300 [MO'] Yes, I believe so. 674 00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:27,300 But I don't see it as much different 675 00:22:27,300 --> 00:22:32,300 because I was already rooted in country and R&B and blues. 676 00:22:32,300 --> 00:22:33,800 Nothin' really changed. 677 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,600 [SMITH] The physical location is not going to affect that. 678 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,433 [MO'] No, but the people around. 679 00:22:37,433 --> 00:22:39,766 But also, you can always find a really good 680 00:22:39,766 --> 00:22:42,200 pedal steel player in Nashville. 681 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:43,500 [SMITH] Well, it's a little easier to find it there. 682 00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:44,833 [MO'] You can find great mandolin players. 683 00:22:44,833 --> 00:22:47,566 You can find guys that are really masterful. 684 00:22:47,566 --> 00:22:50,933 I mean, the musicianship and the songwriting skill 685 00:22:50,933 --> 00:22:53,200 is just masterful. [SMITH] Right, they have 686 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,033 reasonable dexterity-- [MO'] Yes. (chuckles) 687 00:22:55,033 --> 00:22:56,933 [SMITH] as you like to say, (audience chuckles) 688 00:22:56,933 --> 00:22:59,033 in Nashville. 689 00:22:59,033 --> 00:23:00,600 So you're on the road, touring. 690 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:01,566 You tour a lot, right? 691 00:23:01,566 --> 00:23:03,600 You're on the road all the time. 692 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:04,733 [MO'] Yeah, I do. 693 00:23:04,733 --> 00:23:06,233 [SMITH] And you enjoy it. 694 00:23:06,233 --> 00:23:07,733 This is one of the things that I always ask musicians. 695 00:23:07,733 --> 00:23:10,800 Do you prefer recording, or do you prefer touring? 696 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:11,833 [MO'] It's all the same thing. 697 00:23:11,833 --> 00:23:13,733 [SMITH] It's all the same thing. 698 00:23:13,733 --> 00:23:15,266 Two sides of the same coin, isn't it? 699 00:23:15,266 --> 00:23:16,833 [MO'] Yes. [SMITH] Right. 700 00:23:16,833 --> 00:23:18,533 Do you tour to support records, 701 00:23:18,533 --> 00:23:20,833 or do you make records so you have something to tour? 702 00:23:20,833 --> 00:23:22,500 [MO'] It's all the same thing. 703 00:23:22,500 --> 00:23:23,800 [SMITH] Again, the same thing. 704 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,633 It's not one side or another side. 705 00:23:25,633 --> 00:23:28,833 [MO'] You tour to support the record. 706 00:23:28,833 --> 00:23:31,000 You make the record to support the tour. 707 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,433 You play the music to connect to the people 708 00:23:33,433 --> 00:23:35,900 that will come to the-- [SMITH] Well, fortunately, 709 00:23:35,900 --> 00:23:37,133 you have something to sell now. 710 00:23:37,133 --> 00:23:38,400 You don't have to go to Kinkos anymore 711 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:39,933 and fold up paper, right? (laughs) 712 00:23:39,933 --> 00:23:41,166 You've already got a product. 713 00:23:41,166 --> 00:23:43,266 [MO'] I would do it though. (chuckles) 714 00:23:43,266 --> 00:23:44,666 (audience laughs) [SMITH] I get a sense. 715 00:23:44,666 --> 00:23:47,833 The gleam in your eye, reporting that you made $1,000 716 00:23:47,833 --> 00:23:51,066 tells me that if you had to go back to Kinkos again-- 717 00:23:51,066 --> 00:23:53,233 [MO'] The thing is, I wanted to, after a long time, 718 00:23:53,233 --> 00:23:55,466 'cause I had a record in 1980 called "Rainmaker" 719 00:23:55,466 --> 00:23:58,100 by Kevin Moore, the accountant Kevin Moore. 720 00:23:58,100 --> 00:24:00,633 [SMITH] Yeah, right. (audience laughs) 721 00:24:00,633 --> 00:24:02,533 That was a harrowing experience of like, 722 00:24:02,533 --> 00:24:04,600 gettin' kicked out of the record business. 723 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,633 I knew that if I wanted to be in the record business, 724 00:24:07,633 --> 00:24:09,233 I had to go in on my own. 725 00:24:09,233 --> 00:24:10,733 I didn't go ask for a record deal. 726 00:24:10,733 --> 00:24:14,500 Because when they said no, it would've crushed me. 727 00:24:14,500 --> 00:24:16,633 I'm a sensitive guy. 728 00:24:16,633 --> 00:24:18,333 I'm not a big, strong, tough guy. 729 00:24:18,333 --> 00:24:19,800 [SMITH] You'd rather have your control, also, 730 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:20,933 of your own deal, right? 731 00:24:20,933 --> 00:24:22,500 [MO'] My own destiny. 732 00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:25,800 I want to determine, 733 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,400 I, not want to, but I 734 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,766 decided to decide what was gonna happen for me. 735 00:24:33,766 --> 00:24:35,033 It wasn't about numbers. 736 00:24:35,033 --> 00:24:37,866 It wasn't about how many people I could reach, 737 00:24:37,866 --> 00:24:39,133 how much money I could make. 738 00:24:39,133 --> 00:24:41,200 It was about, this is where next, 739 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,033 that aha moment that you asked about earlier 740 00:24:44,033 --> 00:24:45,500 in the interview. 741 00:24:45,500 --> 00:24:47,333 That was the aha moment when I'm goin', 742 00:24:47,333 --> 00:24:50,266 "Okay, now you're 39, sucker." 743 00:24:50,266 --> 00:24:51,633 And so, there's no goin' back on that. 744 00:24:51,633 --> 00:24:53,833 [SMITH] That's great. [MO'] You know, so it was like, 745 00:24:53,833 --> 00:24:56,133 I could've quit and done somethin' else, right then. 746 00:24:56,133 --> 00:24:57,800 [SMITH] Yeah well, thank God you didn't. 747 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,633 [MO'] I decided to keep goin'. 748 00:24:59,633 --> 00:25:00,700 [SMITH] It's a great story. 749 00:25:00,700 --> 00:25:02,233 You're a very charming guy. 750 00:25:02,233 --> 00:25:04,666 It's nice to see people who deserve to succeed, succeed. 751 00:25:04,666 --> 00:25:06,800 [MO'] Well, thank you. [SMITH] You've had a great career. 752 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,033 Let's hope that you continue to. 753 00:25:08,033 --> 00:25:09,566 You have a Christmas record coming out? 754 00:25:09,566 --> 00:25:11,600 [MO'] Yes, I do. [SMITH] What was the, 755 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:12,766 we have like 30 seconds. 756 00:25:12,766 --> 00:25:14,533 What's the short version of that story? 757 00:25:14,533 --> 00:25:17,200 [MO'] It's a Christmas record, and it's, 758 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,900 the title is "Moonlight, Mistletoe And You." 759 00:25:19,900 --> 00:25:22,433 (audience chuckles) 760 00:25:22,433 --> 00:25:24,133 [SMITH] New songs? [MO'] Yeah, new songs, 761 00:25:24,133 --> 00:25:26,500 classic songs, you know. 762 00:25:26,500 --> 00:25:29,800 And it, I love it. 763 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,066 There's this one non-Christmas song on there. 764 00:25:32,066 --> 00:25:34,133 [SMITH] How great. [MO'] It's just, 765 00:25:34,133 --> 00:25:35,600 I can't wait for the Christmas tour 766 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,000 because I got this record now. 767 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,166 [SMITH] Okay good. [MO'] Listen to the song, 768 00:25:38,166 --> 00:25:42,466 "Christmas Is Annoying." (audience laughs) 769 00:25:42,466 --> 00:25:46,000 [SMITH] Christmas may be annoying, but you are not. 770 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,766 Keb' Mo', thank you so much, really enjoyed it. 771 00:25:47,766 --> 00:25:48,600 Give him a hand. (audience applauds) 772 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,800 Keb' Mo', thank you. 773 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,400 We'd love to have you join us in the studio. 774 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,466 Visit our website at klru.org/overheard 775 00:25:58,466 --> 00:26:00,700 to find invitations to interviews, 776 00:26:00,700 --> 00:26:02,700 Q&As with our audience and guests 777 00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:05,333 and an archive of past episodes. 778 00:26:05,333 --> 00:26:06,233 (upbeat band music) [MO'] Some people 779 00:26:06,233 --> 00:26:08,000 will practice all day. 780 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,433 Some people will practice once a week. 781 00:26:10,433 --> 00:26:14,166 Some people will practice for 15 or 10 minutes a day. 782 00:26:14,166 --> 00:26:16,600 For me, I was not one of the, 783 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,633 I was the 10 minute a day, maybe one hour. 784 00:26:20,633 --> 00:26:22,600 Maybe one day, I played all day. 785 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,066 I was very inconsistent. 786 00:26:24,066 --> 00:26:25,966 But I was consistent in the fact that I kept going, 787 00:26:25,966 --> 00:26:27,466 and I never gave up. 788 00:26:27,466 --> 00:26:29,500 [ANNOUNCER] Funding for Overheard with Evan Smith 789 00:26:29,500 --> 00:26:31,300 is provided in part by 790 00:26:31,300 --> 00:26:35,400 Hillco Partners, a Texas government affairs consultancy, 791 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,666 Claire and Carl Stuart, 792 00:26:37,666 --> 00:26:40,466 and by Laura and John Beckworth, 793 00:26:40,466 --> 00:26:42,733 The Hobby Family Foundation. 794 00:26:42,733 --> 00:26:45,900 (tinkling electronic music)