WEBVTT 00:01.500 --> 00:03.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - [Announcer] Funding for Overheard with Evan Smith 00:03.000 --> 00:05.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% is provided in part by the Alice Kleberg Reynolds 00:05.833 --> 00:07.300 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% Foundation. 00:07.300 --> 00:11.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And Hillco Partners, a Texas government affairs consultancy. 00:11.333 --> 00:14.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And by KLRU's Producers Circle, 00:14.466 --> 00:16.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% ensuring local programming that reflects 00:16.366 --> 00:17.900 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% the character and interests 00:17.900 --> 00:21.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% of the Greater Austin, Texas community. 00:21.200 --> 00:23.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - I'm Evan Smith, he's America's Police Chief, 00:23.733 --> 00:26.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% the longtime and now former top cop in Dallas, 00:26.800 --> 00:29.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% thrust into the national spotlight on one of the force's 00:29.766 --> 00:32.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and the city's most tragic days. 00:32.266 --> 00:35.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% His memoir, Called to Rise: A Life in Faithful Service 00:35.566 --> 00:39.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% to the Community That Made Me, has just been published. 00:39.000 --> 00:42.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% He's David O. Brown, this is Overheard. 00:42.766 --> 00:45.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Let's be honest, is this about the ability to learn 00:45.800 --> 00:47.300 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% or is this about the experience 00:47.300 --> 00:48.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% of not having been taught properly? 00:48.966 --> 00:52.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% How have you avoided what has befallen other nations 00:52.033 --> 00:53.266 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% in Africa? 00:53.266 --> 00:54.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You can say that he'd made his own bed, 00:54.533 --> 00:55.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but you caused him to sleep in it. 00:55.966 --> 00:59.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You saw a problem and over time took it on. 00:59.633 --> 01:02.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Let's start with the sizzle before we get to the steak, 01:02.500 --> 01:03.733 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% are you gonna run for President? 01:03.733 --> 01:06.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I think I just got an F from you. 01:06.333 --> 01:07.600 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% This is Overheard. 01:07.600 --> 01:10.266 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% (audience applause) 01:10.266 --> 01:11.600 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Chief Brown, welcome. 01:11.600 --> 01:12.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Thank you. - Thank you for being here, 01:12.700 --> 01:14.233 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and congratulations on the book. 01:14.233 --> 01:16.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I have to say, I kinda wish you didn't have to write it. 01:16.233 --> 01:18.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Right, I wish the events that propelled this book 01:18.233 --> 01:19.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to exist hadn't happened. 01:19.966 --> 01:21.400 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% Although, 01:21.400 --> 01:23.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% it's such an interesting story that you tell 01:23.200 --> 01:26.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% not just of July 7th of 2016 but your own 01:26.866 --> 01:29.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% life, and I think that actually for a lot of us, 01:29.000 --> 01:32.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% finding out about you as the backdrop for this book 01:32.733 --> 01:34.233 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% is worth the read. 01:34.233 --> 01:36.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Yes, and I've been an extremely private person, 01:36.566 --> 01:38.500 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% even though a public figure 01:38.500 --> 01:42.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% for various reasons but this book reveals my thoughts, 01:42.433 --> 01:44.600 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% my life, how it applied-- 01:44.600 --> 01:48.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Story behind the story. - Purpose, meaning, yeah. 01:48.633 --> 01:50.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - The events, I should say, of July 7th, 01:50.200 --> 01:52.366 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% obviously people are aware of them in the abstract, 01:52.366 --> 01:54.533 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% or maybe in specific if they paid attention to the news 01:54.533 --> 01:55.900 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% of that day and after it. 01:55.900 --> 01:58.100 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% Let's set this scene for that and talk about that 01:58.100 --> 01:59.666 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% a little bit before we talk about you. 01:59.666 --> 02:02.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% So, 2016 was a particularly brutal year in this country 02:02.633 --> 02:05.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% in terms of the relationship between the police 02:05.900 --> 02:07.300 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% and citizens. 02:07.300 --> 02:09.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% You had 64 police officers, I believe, shot, 02:09.833 --> 02:12.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% you said in the book, and 21 ambushed. 02:12.533 --> 02:13.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Yes. - And a thousand, 02:13.833 --> 02:17.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% almost a thousand people killed by the police. 02:17.233 --> 02:19.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Yes. - Also, last year. 02:19.933 --> 02:23.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Yes, and it reached a fever pitch in July after-- 02:23.533 --> 02:25.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Just to the run-up to this-- 02:25.933 --> 02:29.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Yes, for the shootings in Baton Rouge, Louisiana 02:29.833 --> 02:30.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and the shootings in Minnesota. 02:30.766 --> 02:32.133 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Alton Sterling in Louisiana, 02:32.133 --> 02:33.733 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Philando Castile in Minnesota. 02:33.733 --> 02:36.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Those both happened over the July 4th-- 02:36.033 --> 02:37.033 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% - Weekend. - Weekend. 02:37.033 --> 02:38.233 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% - Yes. 02:38.233 --> 02:39.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - So that's really the immediate backdrop 02:39.666 --> 02:41.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to what happened on July 7th in Dallas 02:41.800 --> 02:44.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% because those two killings prompt protests, 02:44.900 --> 02:47.366 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% rallies, all across the country. 02:47.366 --> 02:49.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Including one in Dallas and the Dallas one 02:49.600 --> 02:51.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% was really at the same time happening, 02:51.266 --> 02:52.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% similar events happening in other places. 02:52.800 --> 02:56.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Yes, and we felt that this was a critical point 02:56.933 --> 02:58.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% in police/community relationships 02:58.866 --> 03:01.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and that this protest was really important to manage well. 03:01.766 --> 03:04.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Do you have any reason to fear that things would go 03:04.033 --> 03:05.566 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% off the rails on that day? 03:05.566 --> 03:08.300 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Going into that day, knowing that people's tensions were 03:08.300 --> 03:09.500 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% at a high point, 03:09.500 --> 03:12.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% knowing everything that had preceded this, 03:12.000 --> 03:13.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% did you go into this day thinking, 03:13.533 --> 03:17.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "We really have to plan for this ending badly?" 03:18.566 --> 03:20.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - No, actually it was just the opposite. 03:20.133 --> 03:23.866 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% We had met with the planners of the protest 03:23.866 --> 03:28.133 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% weeks before when we knew the July 4th weekend 03:28.133 --> 03:31.300 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% prompted this idea of a national protest day. 03:31.300 --> 03:33.733 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And so we met with them, we were 03:33.733 --> 03:35.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% in undercover capacity in their planning meetings, 03:35.933 --> 03:38.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% we were hearing what they were planning to do, 03:38.333 --> 03:40.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% they were planning to have a peaceful protest 03:40.200 --> 03:42.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and they intentionally wanted to be peaceful 03:42.366 --> 03:44.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% because they wanted the country to hear 03:44.733 --> 03:48.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% their concerns and not be distracted by violence, 03:48.133 --> 03:49.566 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% or property damage or whatever. 03:49.566 --> 03:52.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% So we knew that they were gonna have speakers, 03:52.500 --> 03:54.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% have a pretty stationary event in a park downtown, 03:54.933 --> 03:56.300 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% and then disperse. 03:56.300 --> 03:58.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% That was the plan and it was going to plan. 03:58.333 --> 04:00.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - And Dallas also, let's say, not just any city 04:00.666 --> 04:01.733 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% in this country, right? 04:01.733 --> 04:03.233 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% It is the 04:03.233 --> 04:05.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the 9th largest city in the entire country, 04:05.000 --> 04:08.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% it has a long history of issues around race. 04:08.500 --> 04:09.733 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - Yes, it does. 04:09.733 --> 04:11.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - And so, Dallas as a particular backdrop 04:11.900 --> 04:13.366 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% is an element of this story, 04:13.366 --> 04:15.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and maybe a greater burden for this city 04:15.133 --> 04:16.333 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% to show its best face. 04:16.333 --> 04:17.833 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - I agree. 04:17.833 --> 04:21.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And we were intentional in our ways of managing this crowd. 04:21.366 --> 04:24.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% We were making sure that the best of Dallas 04:24.033 --> 04:24.966 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% was gonna be-- 04:24.966 --> 04:25.766 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% - On display. - Display. 04:25.766 --> 04:27.666 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - So the gentleman who 04:27.666 --> 04:29.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% killed these police officers. 04:29.100 --> 04:33.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Five officers ultimately died as a result of this day. 04:33.466 --> 04:35.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Micah Johnson was an Army veteran, African American, 04:35.933 --> 04:39.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and he very specifically said, we came to know, 04:39.833 --> 04:41.566 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% that he was targeting 04:42.766 --> 04:44.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the police, and white police, specifically, 04:44.966 --> 04:48.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% as a result of these incidents that have happened elsewhere. 04:48.133 --> 04:50.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Yes, we learned that later at the time 04:50.433 --> 04:52.166 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% when we negotiated with him. 04:52.166 --> 04:53.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% People think this was a long, drawn-out event. 04:53.833 --> 04:55.200 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And it was to a certain extent, 04:55.200 --> 04:57.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but the shootout was just a few minutes, 04:57.333 --> 05:01.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% then we spent the time after the suspect gets cornered, 05:01.166 --> 05:02.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% three and a half hours to try to bring it 05:02.500 --> 05:04.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to a peaceful conclusion, 05:04.033 --> 05:06.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% even though there had been the most extreme violence 05:06.566 --> 05:07.966 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% you could imagine, 05:07.966 --> 05:09.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% we still wanted to give him an opportunity 05:09.400 --> 05:10.633 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% to give up peacefully 05:10.633 --> 05:12.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and that opportunity just didn't exist. 05:12.000 --> 05:13.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Yeah, and so, ultimately, as we now know 05:13.466 --> 05:16.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% from watching the events on that day, 05:16.100 --> 05:17.366 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% you had a robot 05:18.733 --> 05:20.666 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% with a bomb on it. 05:20.666 --> 05:21.600 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - A pound of C-4. 05:21.600 --> 05:23.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Right, that you sent in, 05:23.100 --> 05:26.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and that's ultimately how you resolved the situation. 05:26.400 --> 05:29.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% He was killed and situation was brought to a close 05:29.833 --> 05:31.066 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% and that was it. 05:31.066 --> 05:32.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It could have been a lot worse and in fact, 05:32.266 --> 05:34.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% he talked about having intentions for it 05:34.100 --> 05:35.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to have been a lot worse. 05:35.033 --> 05:36.300 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% In fact, at one point he said 05:36.300 --> 05:38.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% there were bombs all over Dallas, right? 05:38.233 --> 05:42.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Not just his intent to create the most damage he could 05:42.333 --> 05:43.766 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% to people. 05:43.766 --> 05:46.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% He wanted to divide us around race. 05:46.800 --> 05:48.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% He particularly wanted to target white cops, 05:48.900 --> 05:51.400 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% so that we could be more divided, 05:51.400 --> 05:55.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% in this area of white cops versus communities of color. 05:55.200 --> 05:56.666 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% This was more than just, 05:56.666 --> 05:58.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the violence which was bad enough, 05:58.533 --> 06:00.566 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% but he wanted to spark something 06:00.566 --> 06:02.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that would divide our city, divide our country even more. 06:02.900 --> 06:04.433 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% - Right. 06:04.433 --> 06:07.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% What allowed this situation not to be worse than it was? 06:07.333 --> 06:10.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I mean, that's a strange question, I'm sure. 06:10.666 --> 06:12.166 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% What happened? 06:12.166 --> 06:14.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% What was the decision point or what were the elements 06:14.466 --> 06:16.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that allowed the situation to be contained 06:16.133 --> 06:17.300 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% from your perspective? 06:17.300 --> 06:19.100 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - I had the, 06:19.100 --> 06:20.366 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% the belief that 06:21.700 --> 06:24.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% whatever would happen, divided or we'd come together, 06:24.433 --> 06:28.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% rested on how we talked to the public 06:28.333 --> 06:31.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and the world when we were being, 06:31.800 --> 06:33.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% having press conferences. - So the aftermath of this. 06:33.733 --> 06:35.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% How you talked about the events of that day 06:35.300 --> 06:36.566 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% and what it meant, 06:36.566 --> 06:39.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% what it signified about what had happened prior, 06:39.000 --> 06:41.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and what it would mean going forward. 06:41.800 --> 06:45.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - I actually got a question from a media person 06:45.866 --> 06:48.000 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% about what this meant. 06:48.000 --> 06:50.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And specifically, I answered the question 06:50.766 --> 06:53.300 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% in a more broad term, not just speaking to that reporter, 06:53.300 --> 06:54.733 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% or to Dallas. 06:54.733 --> 06:57.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I was speaking to the country and the answer was, 06:57.333 --> 07:00.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% "We're not gonna let a coward change our democracy," 07:00.533 --> 07:04.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that we're not going to now be more divided 07:04.166 --> 07:06.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% because this person does this. 07:06.033 --> 07:09.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And this is an opportunity for us to challenge 07:09.066 --> 07:11.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% each other to do better but also to come together 07:11.600 --> 07:13.066 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% on common goals. 07:13.066 --> 07:14.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Right, you're not under the illusion of course, Chief, 07:14.700 --> 07:18.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that this situation was going to cause the race to relations 07:18.166 --> 07:20.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% in this country to suddenly repair or the relationship 07:20.966 --> 07:22.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% between the police and communities of color 07:22.866 --> 07:25.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% to suddenly repair because this is an ongoing situation. 07:25.133 --> 07:28.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% It's been ongoing in the year since, I'm sad to say. 07:28.366 --> 07:31.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% You're probably acknowledged that we're not any better 07:31.100 --> 07:33.233 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% really than we were before. 07:33.233 --> 07:34.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - I'm naive so I'm gonna first check 07:34.800 --> 07:37.400 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% the box of a naive person. 07:37.400 --> 07:40.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Because I left school my senior year here at UT Austin 07:40.333 --> 07:42.333 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to become a police officer 07:42.333 --> 07:43.633 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% to save the world. 07:43.633 --> 07:47.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I am that naive to believe that we can 07:47.600 --> 07:51.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% take the worst of circumstances and be the beneficiaries 07:51.433 --> 07:52.966 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% of the greatest hope. 07:52.966 --> 07:54.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - You still choose to believe that there's a solution there. 07:54.766 --> 07:55.700 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% That there's a fix there. 07:55.700 --> 07:56.733 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% - Yes. 07:56.733 --> 07:57.566 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% I insist on it. 07:57.566 --> 07:58.433 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - You insist on it. 07:58.433 --> 07:59.366 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% - Yeah. - Do you believe 07:59.366 --> 08:01.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that the police have a beef 08:01.966 --> 08:04.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% with the communities they serve? 08:04.766 --> 08:06.366 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% I want you to 08:06.366 --> 08:08.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% speak truth here about what's goin' on. 08:08.766 --> 08:10.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Why do we have this problem between law enforcement 08:10.766 --> 08:12.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and communities of color? 08:12.066 --> 08:15.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You grew up in a community in Dallas 08:15.033 --> 08:16.733 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% that has been, 08:16.733 --> 08:18.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% you know, you understand from the community side 08:18.833 --> 08:20.900 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% of this conversation, right? 08:20.900 --> 08:23.600 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - So, let me be plainspoken. 08:23.600 --> 08:24.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I've been black a long time. 08:24.933 --> 08:27.066 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% (audience laughs) 08:27.066 --> 08:28.300 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - I will fact check that. 08:28.300 --> 08:29.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Okay. (laughs) (audience laughs) 08:29.566 --> 08:31.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Confirmed. - So, I've been stereotyped 08:31.533 --> 08:32.866 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% as a black man. 08:32.866 --> 08:34.133 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% And I hate it. 08:34.133 --> 08:35.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I hate that if a black person does something, 08:35.800 --> 08:38.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% all blacks can be cast as what that person did 08:38.733 --> 08:40.000 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% in a negative light. 08:40.000 --> 08:43.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And I've been a cop all of my adult life. 08:43.400 --> 08:45.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And I hate it when a cop does something 08:45.966 --> 08:48.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and it cast the whole lot of policing in a bad-- 08:48.700 --> 08:50.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - There's a stereotyping of that as well. 08:50.866 --> 08:53.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Stereotyping divides us further. 08:53.133 --> 08:56.166 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% It's not a solution to stereotype and there are some cops 08:56.166 --> 08:58.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that don't deserve to wear the uniform. 08:58.500 --> 08:59.833 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Without question. 08:59.833 --> 09:01.900 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% But explain to me how five cops 09:01.900 --> 09:04.366 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% can give the ultimate sacrifice, 09:04.366 --> 09:05.866 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% run toward gunfires, 09:05.866 --> 09:08.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% kill protestors who had just been protesting them 09:08.933 --> 09:12.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% between bullets and their bodies 09:12.266 --> 09:16.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and be racist and cast in the same light 09:16.333 --> 09:18.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% as the one or 2% of cops that don't need to be 09:18.866 --> 09:21.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% in the uniform as the same as I as a black man 09:21.800 --> 09:25.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% will be cast in a stereotypical way in other negative tones. 09:25.900 --> 09:28.333 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% - But is the negative critique of the Police Chief 09:28.333 --> 09:30.466 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% or is the negative critique of the communities 09:30.466 --> 09:34.600 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% that the police serves in any way legitimate? 09:34.600 --> 09:37.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - There are individual instances 09:37.966 --> 09:39.866 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% of cops behaving badly. 09:41.033 --> 09:44.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And there are people in the community, 09:44.200 --> 09:46.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% patricularly communities of color behaving badly. 09:46.566 --> 09:47.766 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% - Right. 09:47.766 --> 09:49.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - But you can't cast the whole lot. 09:49.233 --> 09:51.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - A few bad cops or a certain number of bad cops 09:51.200 --> 09:53.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% are not the police in the main. 09:53.266 --> 09:54.500 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% - Right. 09:54.500 --> 09:55.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - And a few bad actors in these communities 09:55.833 --> 09:58.266 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% are not the black communities, say, in the main. 09:58.266 --> 10:01.266 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% The problem is that we tend to simplistically associate 10:01.266 --> 10:04.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% the bad actors on both sides with the institution. 10:04.933 --> 10:06.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - With broad strokes. - Broad strokes. 10:06.833 --> 10:08.666 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - With no solutions in between. 10:08.666 --> 10:10.533 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - How do you change it? 10:10.533 --> 10:14.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - I go back to how our democracy was formed. 10:14.333 --> 10:16.266 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% Particularly the local democracy changes, 10:16.266 --> 10:18.233 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% more significantly, our lives. 10:18.233 --> 10:21.333 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% So what I mean by that real quickly is 10:21.333 --> 10:23.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% protesting alone has never significantly changed anything 10:23.700 --> 10:25.200 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% in our country. 10:25.200 --> 10:27.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% The Civil Rights movement is the closest example. 10:27.033 --> 10:30.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% 50 years ago, young people began protesting. 10:30.300 --> 10:33.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And then they challenged in the courts, 10:33.733 --> 10:34.900 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% the laws. 10:34.900 --> 10:37.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% The divider segregated by equal laws. 10:37.800 --> 10:40.300 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And then they ran for government 10:40.300 --> 10:41.800 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and got elected and served. 10:41.800 --> 10:43.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% John Lewis got elected and served in government, 10:43.733 --> 10:45.333 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% after protesting. 10:45.333 --> 10:46.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% They wanted the Voting Rights Act 10:46.600 --> 10:48.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% so they can have the right to vote. 10:48.000 --> 10:51.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% So they could then, particularly at the local level, 10:51.066 --> 10:55.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% have an impact on city council, city managers, mayors. 10:55.166 --> 10:59.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% So that they could then be represented in government. 10:59.033 --> 11:00.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% That their point of view could be represented. 11:00.833 --> 11:02.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - But you understand that in communities like Dallas, 11:02.400 --> 11:05.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Austin, Houston, San Francisco, Chicago, pick a city, 11:05.466 --> 11:08.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% people believe that coming out and showing 11:08.200 --> 11:10.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that they have a problem with the way things are, 11:10.233 --> 11:12.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% whatever that issue may be, 11:12.066 --> 11:13.700 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% whatever the community may be, 11:13.700 --> 11:15.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% they believe that having their voices heard 11:15.466 --> 11:17.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% is an essential component, 11:17.000 --> 11:19.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% maybe the first pebble in the path of our democracy. 11:19.633 --> 11:20.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You're not saying they shouldn't do that. 11:20.900 --> 11:22.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - No, I'm saying let's contrast that 11:22.566 --> 11:25.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% with the last city council election in Dallas, 11:25.400 --> 11:27.000 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% just a few weeks ago. 11:27.000 --> 11:29.600 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% 6% turnout. - Right. 11:29.600 --> 11:32.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Which means 94% of the people at the local level, 11:32.766 --> 11:34.233 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% stayed at home. 11:34.233 --> 11:37.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And when you protest and have that kind of participation 11:37.433 --> 11:38.833 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% in our local democracy, 11:38.833 --> 11:40.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% you cannot expect any significance. 11:40.733 --> 11:42.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Ultimately it doesn't matter if you don't do 11:42.700 --> 11:44.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% what is necessary to make change happen. 11:44.866 --> 11:46.133 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% - Yes. 11:46.133 --> 11:48.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - And that's where that comes from. 11:48.266 --> 11:50.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Do you expect that we're gonna have situations like Dallas 11:50.366 --> 11:51.866 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% going forward? 11:51.866 --> 11:53.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I mean, it feels like, how can you say no, right? 11:53.533 --> 11:56.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - We take a step forward and then another viral video 11:56.100 --> 11:58.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% comes out and we take two steps back. 11:58.233 --> 12:00.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And so it's been a most challenging time, 12:00.400 --> 12:03.666 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and we right now don't know how reform is gonna go forward 12:03.666 --> 12:06.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% from the federal aspects of how the justice department 12:06.333 --> 12:08.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% would put forth a consent decree. 12:08.666 --> 12:09.500 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% So we don't know that. 12:09.500 --> 12:10.933 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% What it's gonna take, 12:10.933 --> 12:13.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and I'm gonna repeat this again, 12:13.100 --> 12:14.633 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% is 12:14.633 --> 12:16.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% putting some skin in the game at the local democracy level, 12:16.900 --> 12:18.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% a municipal government, 12:18.100 --> 12:20.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that's where the police chiefs are hired, 12:20.133 --> 12:23.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that's where the mayors and the city council write policy, 12:23.366 --> 12:25.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% change training for police officers. 12:25.266 --> 12:28.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% They can actually reform through engage participation 12:28.500 --> 12:29.733 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% in the local government. 12:29.733 --> 12:30.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - So if you don't like what's going on 12:30.666 --> 12:31.900 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% you gotta change it, that's it. 12:31.900 --> 12:33.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Yeah, put some skin in the game. 12:33.333 --> 12:35.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I quit school my senior year, became a police officer. 12:35.200 --> 12:36.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% That is not the only thing you can do 12:36.633 --> 12:38.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% is become a police officer. 12:38.000 --> 12:39.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - But that's an example, I mean you're an example 12:39.133 --> 12:40.633 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% of somebody who said, 12:40.633 --> 12:43.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% "I can't just sit back and watch a situation unfold 12:43.366 --> 12:44.600 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% "that I'm not happy with. 12:44.600 --> 12:45.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "I've gotta put myself in the middle of it 12:45.866 --> 12:48.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "and try to be a positive changer." 12:48.133 --> 12:49.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Yes, after you finish protesting, 12:49.833 --> 12:53.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% put that protest sign down and put an application in. 12:53.200 --> 12:54.900 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Be the change you wanna see. 12:54.900 --> 12:56.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - You were chief for six years, maybe a little bit more. 12:56.900 --> 12:58.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You were on the force for more than 33 years. 12:58.966 --> 13:00.300 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% - Yes. 13:00.300 --> 13:01.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - You know how the police department, 13:01.900 --> 13:03.266 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% how police forces work. 13:03.266 --> 13:04.666 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Are there things practically over and above 13:04.666 --> 13:06.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% what we're talking about at a high level, 13:06.033 --> 13:08.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% or are there on the ground, granular things 13:08.300 --> 13:11.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that forces can do to ensure that the relationship 13:11.500 --> 13:13.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% between themselves and the community 13:13.000 --> 13:14.166 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% is better and healthier? 13:14.166 --> 13:15.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Some aspect of community policing. 13:15.700 --> 13:17.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Is there technology that can be used, 13:17.266 --> 13:19.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% whether it's body cameras or dashboard cameras 13:19.166 --> 13:21.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% the kinds of things that have come into common usage 13:21.766 --> 13:24.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% or we're all kind of familiar enough with them? 13:24.633 --> 13:27.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% More that forces now looking back over your shoulder, 13:27.200 --> 13:28.900 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% can be doing or should be doing? 13:28.900 --> 13:30.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Yes, all of the above, check all the boxes. 13:30.966 --> 13:34.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Here's the best example that I can give. 13:34.000 --> 13:36.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% There are cops that I used to get assigned with, 13:36.200 --> 13:37.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that today other cops get assigned with, 13:37.933 --> 13:39.200 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% you don't wanna ride with them. 13:39.200 --> 13:41.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% 'Cause when they get to a scene with you, 13:41.066 --> 13:42.666 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% they're gonna cause problems. 13:42.666 --> 13:44.033 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% They're gonna have you in Internal Affairs, writing letters, 13:44.033 --> 13:46.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% they're gonna put your career on the line. 13:46.133 --> 13:47.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% When you go to a call and they're in the call with you, 13:47.366 --> 13:48.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% "Hey, hey, you stay in the car, 13:48.766 --> 13:50.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "I'll go handle this, when I get back, 13:50.466 --> 13:51.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% "let's go to the next call." 13:51.766 --> 13:54.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Cops know the cops that shouldn't be cops. 13:54.166 --> 13:55.900 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% There's a small percentage. 13:55.900 --> 13:57.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And the risks are, the reason why I'm saying this, 13:57.633 --> 14:00.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the risks are this small percentage can hijack 14:00.266 --> 14:01.733 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% the internal organization. 14:01.733 --> 14:03.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Why can't you get those bad cops out? 14:03.166 --> 14:04.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - That's the question that has to be answered 14:04.666 --> 14:06.366 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% by police leadership. 14:06.366 --> 14:10.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I've terminated over 60 cops as police chief 14:10.133 --> 14:12.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% during the six years I was there. 14:12.166 --> 14:14.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% And that casts you 14:14.100 --> 14:17.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% being portrayed as not being supportive of a police-- 14:17.100 --> 14:19.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Enemy of the cops. - Yes. 14:19.733 --> 14:21.133 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Is the police union the issue? 14:21.133 --> 14:23.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Sometimes it's the culture, not the union. 14:23.500 --> 14:25.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Union is the reflection of the culture 14:25.033 --> 14:26.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% where people pay dues and expect to be represented. 14:26.633 --> 14:29.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I'm not against unions but per se, 14:29.333 --> 14:32.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% but police leadership have to put their careers on the line 14:32.400 --> 14:35.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and challenge the police and culture to get the one or 2%. 14:35.633 --> 14:39.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% You owe it to the 98% who are doing the job the right way, 14:39.133 --> 14:40.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to get the one or 2% out of policing. 14:40.566 --> 14:42.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - In some ways, public education is having a voice 14:42.533 --> 14:44.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% in this conversation as well, right? 14:44.033 --> 14:45.666 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% You have a 10-year system at the higher ed level, 14:45.666 --> 14:47.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% or in the case of public ed, you've got unions 14:47.933 --> 14:49.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that are very protective of their folks 14:49.500 --> 14:51.433 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% and understandably so. 14:51.433 --> 14:53.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% But there are bad teachers who are probably 14:53.200 --> 14:55.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% you know, in schools, people know who the bad teachers are 14:55.566 --> 14:57.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% in the same way that enforcers people know 14:57.300 --> 14:58.533 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% who the bad cops are. 14:58.533 --> 14:59.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Great segue for this next point. 14:59.966 --> 15:03.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It's a good point for me to make. 15:03.166 --> 15:04.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% The whole time I was chief, I wish my cops 15:04.766 --> 15:07.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% would throw a hundred mile and hour fastball, 15:07.266 --> 15:08.566 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% or a (mumbles) ball. 15:08.566 --> 15:11.133 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Because they're not compensated 15:11.133 --> 15:13.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% for the task we expect them to do. 15:13.400 --> 15:15.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% We expect them to be perfect, 15:15.100 --> 15:16.000 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% not make mistakes, 15:16.000 --> 15:17.500 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% particularly on video, 15:17.500 --> 15:19.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and we expect them to risk their lives for us, 15:19.766 --> 15:23.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but we pay them nominal types of compensation. 15:23.600 --> 15:25.433 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% While sports entertainment, 15:25.433 --> 15:28.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% if you can throw a fastball, throw a football, 15:28.833 --> 15:30.200 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% dunk a basketball-- 15:30.200 --> 15:31.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Or you look like Brad Pitt. 15:31.633 --> 15:36.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - You are extremely compensated to the most perverted way. 15:36.066 --> 15:37.066 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% - Right. 15:37.066 --> 15:39.700 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - And we do get what we pay for. 15:39.700 --> 15:40.966 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% We get what we pay for. 15:40.966 --> 15:42.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - So this is out of balance, you think. 15:42.200 --> 15:44.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Yes, not just policing and fire departments, 15:44.400 --> 15:46.033 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% but teachers as well. 15:46.033 --> 15:49.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% We need to think about compensating 15:49.533 --> 15:52.666 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% the foundations of our society. 15:52.666 --> 15:54.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% How we teach our young people, 15:54.466 --> 15:56.400 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% how we protect ourselves, 15:56.400 --> 15:57.700 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% need to be compensated. 15:57.700 --> 15:59.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% We need to pay our cops, pay our firefighters, 15:59.400 --> 16:01.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% pay our teachers much more money than we do. 16:01.033 --> 16:02.500 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Why'd you wanna be a cop? 16:02.500 --> 16:04.266 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% You've said it a couple times, as we know from the book, 16:04.266 --> 16:06.833 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that you dropped out of college 16:06.833 --> 16:08.033 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% to go be a cop. 16:08.033 --> 16:09.800 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Yes, I was a senior in 1983 16:09.800 --> 16:12.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% when the crack cocaine epidemic hit my neighborhood, 16:12.000 --> 16:13.433 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% hit all inner cities, 16:13.433 --> 16:14.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I grew up poor. - You're living in Oak Cliff. 16:14.700 --> 16:16.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Oak Cliff in Dallas, a neighborhood in Dallas. 16:16.266 --> 16:18.700 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% - You grew up mostly in Dallas and so you saw 16:18.700 --> 16:21.400 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% your community, the community you grew up in, 16:21.400 --> 16:24.233 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% suffering from this drug epidemic. 16:25.633 --> 16:27.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And you said, "I gotta come home and do something about it." 16:27.066 --> 16:29.133 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Yes, I gotta come home. 16:29.133 --> 16:31.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% My dad and mom broke the news to him, 16:31.700 --> 16:33.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% my dad was very frustrated with the decision. 16:33.433 --> 16:34.800 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - I was so fascinated by this. 16:34.800 --> 16:36.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% This is an early actor in the book. 16:36.600 --> 16:39.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Your dad says to you, "Why do you wanna be a cop?" 16:39.700 --> 16:42.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% His exact quote was, "Cops mistreat people 16:42.233 --> 16:43.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "in the community." - Yes. 16:43.800 --> 16:47.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - This is 1982, 83, this is 30 x years ago. 16:47.300 --> 16:48.700 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Your dad says this to you. 16:48.700 --> 16:50.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% It's the same conversation that probably dads 16:50.100 --> 16:51.333 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% are having with kids who decide 16:51.333 --> 16:53.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to be cops today. - Today, yes. 16:53.066 --> 16:54.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Right, it's the exact same conversation. 16:54.366 --> 16:55.566 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60% - Yes, it is. 16:55.566 --> 16:57.166 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% And my dad grew up, he's born 1940. 16:57.166 --> 16:59.366 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% He grew up in the Jim Crow South segregation. 16:59.366 --> 17:02.266 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% He was probably more likely than not, 17:02.266 --> 17:06.133 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% not respected by police during that timeframe. 17:06.133 --> 17:07.366 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - That's his frame of reference. 17:07.366 --> 17:09.366 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - That's his world view. 17:09.366 --> 17:10.666 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% But I'm stubborn. 17:10.666 --> 17:12.266 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% I'm stubborn. 17:12.266 --> 17:14.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I'm worried about their safety livin' in the neighborhood, 17:14.166 --> 17:16.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% while the crack cocaine epidemic is increasingly 17:16.033 --> 17:17.100 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% more violent. 17:20.000 --> 17:22.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I can't concentrate at school anyway. 17:22.000 --> 17:24.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And so I go down and put an application in. 17:24.400 --> 17:26.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And I don't take no for an answer. 17:26.300 --> 17:30.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% They hired me, and my first beat was my own neighborhood. 17:30.233 --> 17:32.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - And you were always a boy scout. 17:32.366 --> 17:34.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% In essence, not a literal boy scout, but you know, 17:34.133 --> 17:35.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% as we now know that term to mean, 17:35.800 --> 17:37.233 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% growing up as a kid. 17:37.233 --> 17:38.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - I earned these nerdy glasses right here, yeah, yeah. 17:38.966 --> 17:40.233 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% (audience laughter) 17:40.233 --> 17:41.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Let me say, here we go, right here! 17:41.266 --> 17:44.200 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (Chief laughs) 17:44.200 --> 17:47.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You were always on the right side of things, 17:47.133 --> 17:48.566 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% you played sports, 17:48.566 --> 17:50.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% you tried to stay on the right side of the line, right? 17:50.700 --> 17:53.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I'm interested in an anecdote where 17:53.300 --> 17:55.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% somebody gives you a joint. 17:55.000 --> 17:56.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I think this was in San Francisco. 17:56.500 --> 17:58.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - It was in San Francisco. 17:58.766 --> 18:00.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Somebody gives you a joint and you try a joint 18:00.766 --> 18:02.600 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% for the first time. 18:02.600 --> 18:04.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And then you decided, "Okay, I don't like this," 18:04.233 --> 18:06.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and then the opportunity comes up later, 18:06.300 --> 18:08.300 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% and you say, "Thank God, 18:10.666 --> 18:12.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "if I had made the wrong choice, my whole life 18:12.366 --> 18:13.866 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% "would have been different." 18:13.866 --> 18:15.266 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - I wouldn't have been able to be hired as a police officer 18:15.266 --> 18:17.766 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% if I was a drug user. 18:17.766 --> 18:21.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I'm 13 years old when I make this choice. 18:21.033 --> 18:25.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% But for a few years later, that being a crack pipe 18:25.200 --> 18:30.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% was the first experimentation is addiction for a lifetime. 18:30.100 --> 18:31.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I always said but for the grace of God, go I-- 18:31.833 --> 18:33.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - It's a different story. 18:33.100 --> 18:34.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Well, and even then, I wanna get to this. 18:34.600 --> 18:35.433 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% So 18:35.433 --> 18:36.900 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% your son 18:36.900 --> 18:37.733 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% dies, 18:38.833 --> 18:41.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and you take pills to sleep. - Yup. 18:41.966 --> 18:44.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - And then you think about continuing to take pills 18:44.500 --> 18:47.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to help you with your grief and your sleep 18:47.333 --> 18:49.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and everything else, and you look at the pills and you say, 18:49.933 --> 18:51.333 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% "If I take pills the second time, 18:51.333 --> 18:53.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% "I'm gonna take them everyday," 18:53.000 --> 18:55.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and you push the pills aside. 18:55.000 --> 18:57.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Because you have such extraordinary discipline 18:57.566 --> 18:59.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and so much of what's in this book is you 18:59.733 --> 19:02.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% having this ongoing conversation with yourself 19:02.366 --> 19:04.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% about who do I wanna be, how do I wanna be, 19:04.733 --> 19:06.433 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% how do I want my life constructed 19:06.433 --> 19:10.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and pushing all the things that could derail you off. 19:10.333 --> 19:12.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - When I was in kindergarten, my mother saw this in me. 19:12.500 --> 19:14.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% She called me a old soul. (audience laughs softly) 19:14.800 --> 19:16.033 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% A old soul. 19:16.033 --> 19:19.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I loved being around my great grandmother. 19:19.766 --> 19:20.633 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% - Mabel. 19:20.633 --> 19:22.166 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - Yes, Mabel Henderson. 19:22.166 --> 19:24.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I love being around older people 20 years, 30 years 19:24.833 --> 19:26.333 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% older than me. 19:26.333 --> 19:28.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% My whole life, I've never liked the same kind of music 19:28.500 --> 19:29.966 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% my peers liked. 19:29.966 --> 19:32.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I've always liked the music my parents listened to. 19:32.400 --> 19:35.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% My mother just consistently called me a old soul. 19:35.000 --> 19:37.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And that caused me to be more reflective. 19:37.566 --> 19:39.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% That nature I have caused me to be a bit more reflective 19:39.633 --> 19:41.133 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% in decision making. 19:41.133 --> 19:43.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Now, Chief, you know that at the time that this incident 19:43.366 --> 19:46.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% in Dallas happened on July 7th, this horrible day, 19:46.400 --> 19:47.666 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% we came to learn things. 19:47.666 --> 19:48.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% As you say you're a private person. 19:48.766 --> 19:50.200 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - [Chief] Yes. 19:50.200 --> 19:52.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - We came to learn things about you that we did not know. 19:52.733 --> 19:56.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Your brother died, your son died, your first partner died. 19:58.033 --> 20:00.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You actually have had to personally deal 20:00.633 --> 20:03.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% with an extraordinary high number of terrible things 20:03.966 --> 20:05.366 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% in your own life. 20:07.133 --> 20:08.533 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% How have you dealt with that? 20:08.533 --> 20:09.700 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% How do you deal with it? 20:09.700 --> 20:10.900 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% And in some ways, 20:10.900 --> 20:13.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% did it better prepare you for this last 20:13.833 --> 20:15.400 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% trip around the track as chief, 20:15.400 --> 20:17.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% this horrible day in the aftermath of it? 20:17.000 --> 20:19.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Only upon reflection does it make sense 20:19.000 --> 20:21.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that this was preparing me to deal with five officers 20:21.766 --> 20:24.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% being killed and to speak to an officer, 20:24.933 --> 20:28.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% department and speak to the country in a calm voice 20:28.366 --> 20:30.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and bring people together and divide. 20:30.500 --> 20:32.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% While I was going through all of that tragedy, 20:32.933 --> 20:34.533 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% it made no sense to me. 20:34.533 --> 20:35.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Actually, the first tragic moment 20:35.933 --> 20:38.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% was my first police partner who was killed 20:38.600 --> 20:39.900 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% in the line of duty. 20:39.900 --> 20:41.300 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I wanted to quit the department, 20:41.300 --> 20:43.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I wanted to quit my faith, I'm a Christian, 20:43.166 --> 20:45.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% not same with the gospel, I wanted to quit, 20:45.200 --> 20:47.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and I went to a prayer meeting to confront God 20:47.400 --> 20:49.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% about why bad things happen to good people, 20:49.666 --> 20:51.333 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% and to say so long. 20:51.333 --> 20:53.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% That this faith is not worthwhile. 20:53.600 --> 20:54.433 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% And 20:55.900 --> 20:58.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% this prayer meeting was a small group of women mostly. 20:58.066 --> 21:00.666 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% And they prayed for me 21:00.666 --> 21:03.300 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% and kept me in my faith, 21:03.300 --> 21:05.166 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% kept me on the job. 21:05.166 --> 21:06.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It's the only reason why I'm here today 21:06.433 --> 21:08.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% is because of God's good grace (mumbles). 21:08.966 --> 21:10.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It's the only reason why I was able to go through 21:10.833 --> 21:12.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% tragedy after tragedy after tragedy. 21:12.966 --> 21:15.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And when the most tragic things happens to other people, 21:15.833 --> 21:19.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I'm able to rise to the occasion only through my faith. 21:19.700 --> 21:21.233 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Your brother was killed by-- 21:21.233 --> 21:22.266 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% - Drug dealers. - Drug dealers. 21:22.266 --> 21:23.600 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% - Yes. 21:23.600 --> 21:25.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Your son had behavioral health issues. 21:25.166 --> 21:26.166 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - Bi-polar. 21:26.166 --> 21:27.266 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - He killed-- 21:29.433 --> 21:31.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - A police officer in a suburban city, 21:31.466 --> 21:32.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and was subsequently killed. 21:32.933 --> 21:34.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - And then he was killed by police. 21:34.166 --> 21:35.233 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% - Yes. 21:35.233 --> 21:36.600 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% He was 28 years old, 21:36.600 --> 21:40.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% adult bi-polar, had no signs of bi-polar. 21:40.466 --> 21:42.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% The only gun I had in the house was the gun 21:42.600 --> 21:44.400 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% that the city issued me. 21:44.400 --> 21:45.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% He had not been acclimated to guns. 21:45.866 --> 21:47.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% We didn't hunt or anything like that 21:47.700 --> 21:49.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% so he had not been interested. 21:49.266 --> 21:52.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Adult bi-polar, untreated, and this episode happened. 21:52.133 --> 21:54.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - And so in some ways I kinda bring this forward 21:54.266 --> 21:57.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to Micah Johnson and the events of July 7th 21:57.733 --> 21:59.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% because he also had serious behavioral, 21:59.800 --> 22:03.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I mean, clearly, he had serious behavioral health issues. 22:03.166 --> 22:06.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And I wonder if from your own experience, 22:06.266 --> 22:09.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% with a son, an adult son who tragically died 22:09.000 --> 22:11.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% but who had these behavioral health issues, 22:11.100 --> 22:13.266 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% may be similar in some respects to Micah Johnson. 22:13.266 --> 22:17.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% If that gave you a different way to think about 22:17.133 --> 22:19.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that day in the moment and the ultimate way 22:19.900 --> 22:22.333 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to resolve the situation. 22:22.333 --> 22:25.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - I had been developed through tragedy and empathy 22:25.800 --> 22:27.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that's just hard to explain for people. 22:27.533 --> 22:28.933 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% It's beyond empathy. 22:28.933 --> 22:33.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I can really see a kid struggling with mental health 22:33.333 --> 22:37.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% or drug addiction differently and appreciate 22:37.133 --> 22:39.133 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that person needs services. 22:39.133 --> 22:41.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Or before my tragedy, I would have said, 22:41.633 --> 22:42.733 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that's somebody else's problem. 22:42.733 --> 22:45.300 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% I would have had sympathy, maybe. 22:45.300 --> 22:48.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% But not as if it's something I need to do 22:48.266 --> 22:49.833 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% to help resolve that. 22:49.833 --> 22:51.100 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% - Do you think the police forces around this country 22:51.100 --> 22:53.933 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% generally speaking, have adequate training 22:53.933 --> 22:56.300 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% in dealing with people with behavioral health? 22:56.300 --> 22:58.933 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% Because of course many people who are involved in 22:58.933 --> 23:00.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% criminal activity are not people 23:00.633 --> 23:03.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% with behavioral health issues but a great number are. 23:03.766 --> 23:05.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Right, and in some ways having that frame of reference 23:05.733 --> 23:08.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% for that maybe as a better strategy. 23:08.333 --> 23:11.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Our prisons in many parts of this country 23:11.333 --> 23:12.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% are our largest mental health providers. 23:12.700 --> 23:14.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - They're effectively psych wards, right? 23:14.300 --> 23:15.600 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - Yes, they are. 23:15.600 --> 23:16.966 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% Up to a third. 23:16.966 --> 23:21.066 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% Up to a third are mental health providing issues 23:21.066 --> 23:24.333 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% that police cannot resolve with handcuffs. 23:24.333 --> 23:26.566 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% You can't arrest your way out of mental health, 23:26.566 --> 23:28.433 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% poor mental health policies and funding. 23:28.433 --> 23:29.400 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% You can't. 23:29.400 --> 23:30.833 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% It's impossible to have-- 23:30.833 --> 23:33.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% The cops, the burden of police officers in this country 23:33.400 --> 23:35.133 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% is way too much. 23:35.133 --> 23:37.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Do you make this case to elected officials? 23:37.900 --> 23:39.333 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% - I do. 23:39.333 --> 23:40.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - You're no longer the chief, you retired as chief 23:40.166 --> 23:41.566 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% in October of 2016. 23:41.566 --> 23:43.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You're now essentially on the circuit. 23:43.433 --> 23:45.666 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% By which I mean in part, you're advocating for a lot 23:45.666 --> 23:46.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% of these issues we're talking about. 23:46.700 --> 23:48.033 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - I serve on the board 23:48.033 --> 23:50.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% of mental health institute. - Out of Dallas. 23:50.066 --> 23:51.300 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - Yes, out of Dallas. 23:51.300 --> 23:52.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And we advocated at the legislature this year 23:52.666 --> 23:54.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and got the funding that we asked for, 23:54.266 --> 23:55.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% thank you Governor Abbott for signing that! 23:55.900 --> 23:57.433 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - To argue that 23:57.433 --> 23:58.733 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% when you think about 23:58.733 --> 24:01.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the criminal justice portfolio of issues, 24:01.200 --> 24:02.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% you've got to put mental health in there, 24:02.833 --> 24:04.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% if not at the very top. - Yes. 24:04.533 --> 24:05.700 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Because these are issues, 24:05.700 --> 24:08.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% they're related, unbelievably related. 24:08.166 --> 24:10.500 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - And it's intersected with 24:10.500 --> 24:11.433 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% drug abuse. 24:13.833 --> 24:17.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% People who are addicted to drugs often are self-medicating 24:17.066 --> 24:18.500 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% a mental illness. 24:20.300 --> 24:23.500 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% Just go to a mental health facility and try to get medicine. 24:23.500 --> 24:24.700 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% It's embarrassing, 24:24.700 --> 24:26.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% what we've put out there to help people. 24:26.900 --> 24:28.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - So, Chief, we have a minute left. 24:28.400 --> 24:30.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% So you retired as Police Chief in October of 2016. 24:30.200 --> 24:31.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You thought this was the moment for you to depart 24:31.900 --> 24:34.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% after 33 years on the force and six years as Chief. 24:34.333 --> 24:35.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And so you're now out in the world. 24:35.566 --> 24:37.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You have any thoughts that you wanna get back 24:37.566 --> 24:39.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% into the public space in any way? 24:39.066 --> 24:40.300 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% Because the bet, 24:40.300 --> 24:42.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% as you said yourself in the very beginning, 24:42.133 --> 24:43.466 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% at the end of the day, 24:43.466 --> 24:46.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% you have to be the change. - Yes. 24:46.366 --> 24:49.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - So where are you in this conversation going forward? 24:49.333 --> 24:51.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Well, I've been asked this question before, 24:51.233 --> 24:53.800 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% "Are you considering politics?" 24:54.833 --> 24:56.233 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Here's my answer. 24:56.233 --> 24:58.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% "I don't know if politics will consider me." 24:58.233 --> 24:59.166 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And here's why I say that. 24:59.166 --> 25:00.300 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - But you're not foreclosing. 25:00.300 --> 25:02.066 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - No, I'm just saying, 25:02.066 --> 25:03.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% if you give me a million dollars for my campaign, 25:03.833 --> 25:06.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I may not vote the way you want me to vote. 25:06.133 --> 25:07.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% If a person in a different party says 25:07.733 --> 25:10.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% something I agree with, I'm gonna support them. 25:10.566 --> 25:11.833 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% So my partner would kick me out 25:11.833 --> 25:13.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and I wouldn't have any money to run for office. 25:13.233 --> 25:14.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% (audience laughter) So it's not that 25:14.233 --> 25:16.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% what I consider politics. 25:16.100 --> 25:17.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I don't know if politics will consider me. 25:17.600 --> 25:20.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Right, what you just described is actually the antidote 25:20.166 --> 25:22.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to the poison though. - Hmm. 25:22.566 --> 25:24.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Somebody who is willing to say, "I'm not gonna, 25:24.633 --> 25:27.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "it's the country over party idea." 25:27.600 --> 25:29.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Yes, sir. - So that might be you. 25:29.700 --> 25:31.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Okay, Evan, we gotta talk more after. 25:31.400 --> 25:34.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% (audience laughter) - Okay, very good. 25:34.266 --> 25:37.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Chief, TV likes nothing more than a cliffhanger. 25:37.533 --> 25:38.700 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (Chief laughs) 25:38.700 --> 25:39.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I think we just provided one. 25:39.933 --> 25:41.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Chief Brown, thank you so much for being here. 25:41.466 --> 25:43.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Congratulations on your book, thank you for everything! 25:43.466 --> 25:47.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% (audience applause) 25:47.100 --> 25:48.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - [Announcer] We'd love to have you join us 25:48.300 --> 25:49.533 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% in this studio. 25:49.533 --> 25:53.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Visit our website at KLRU.org/Overheard 25:53.500 --> 25:57.000 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% to find invitations to interviews, Q&As with our audience, 25:57.000 --> 26:00.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and guests and an archive of past episodes. 26:00.733 --> 26:03.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - When we journey the mass incarceration issue 26:03.433 --> 26:05.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% back in the 80s and 90s in that war on drugs, 26:05.866 --> 26:07.800 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% our crime rates were 26:07.800 --> 26:10.266 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% 10 times as high as they are now. 26:10.266 --> 26:13.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And we're actually much safer when we can 26:14.533 --> 26:15.866 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% make distinctions between people 26:15.866 --> 26:19.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% who need mental health care, drug treatment, 26:19.333 --> 26:21.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to make their bed space for the violent people 26:21.766 --> 26:23.300 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% that need to be in jail. 26:23.300 --> 26:25.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - [Announcer] Funding for Overheard with Evan Smith 26:25.600 --> 26:27.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% is provided in part by 26:27.100 --> 26:29.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the Alice Kleberg Reynolds Foundation 26:29.500 --> 26:34.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and Hillco Partners, a Texas government affairs consultancy. 26:34.000 --> 26:36.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And by KLRU's Producers Circle, 26:36.933 --> 26:38.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% ensuring local programming that reflects 26:38.933 --> 26:40.600 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% the character and interests 26:40.600 --> 26:43.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% of the Greater Austin, Texas community.