1 00:00:01,466 --> 00:00:03,100 - [Narrator] Funding for Overheard with Evan Smith 2 00:00:03,100 --> 00:00:07,066 is provided in part by the Alice Kleberg Reynolds Foundation 3 00:00:07,066 --> 00:00:11,566 and Hillco Partners, a Texas government affairs consultancy 4 00:00:11,566 --> 00:00:16,033 and by KLRU's Producer's Circle, ensuring local programming 5 00:00:16,033 --> 00:00:17,900 that reflects the character and interests 6 00:00:17,900 --> 00:00:21,233 of the greater Austin, Texas community. 7 00:00:21,233 --> 00:00:23,300 - I'm Evan Smith, he's an award winning novelist, 8 00:00:23,300 --> 00:00:26,733 short-story writer, and academic who's 26 works of fiction 9 00:00:26,733 --> 00:00:30,100 over an amazing four decades include, World's End, 10 00:00:30,100 --> 00:00:32,866 Tortilla Curtain, Tooth and Claw, Wild Child, 11 00:00:32,866 --> 00:00:35,333 The Harder They Come, and The Road to Wellville. 12 00:00:35,333 --> 00:00:38,333 His latest, The Terranauts, has just been published. 13 00:00:38,333 --> 00:00:41,333 He's T. C. Boyle, this is Overheard. 14 00:00:42,300 --> 00:00:43,866 Let's be honest, is this about 15 00:00:43,866 --> 00:00:46,566 the ability to learn or is this about the experience 16 00:00:46,566 --> 00:00:48,300 of not having been taught properly? 17 00:00:48,300 --> 00:00:50,433 How have you avoided what has befallen 18 00:00:50,433 --> 00:00:52,066 other nations in Africa? 19 00:00:52,066 --> 00:00:53,366 You could say that he made his own bed, 20 00:00:53,366 --> 00:00:55,333 but you caused him to sleep in it. 21 00:00:55,333 --> 00:00:58,633 You saw a problem and, over time, took it on. 22 00:00:58,633 --> 00:01:01,900 Let's start with the sizzle before we get to the steak. 23 00:01:01,900 --> 00:01:03,066 Are you gonna run for president? 24 00:01:03,066 --> 00:01:05,000 I think I just got an -F. 25 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,433 (applauding) 26 00:01:10,700 --> 00:01:11,933 T. C. Boyle, welcome. 27 00:01:11,933 --> 00:01:12,866 - My pleasure. 28 00:01:12,866 --> 00:01:14,000 - Congratulations on the book. 29 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:15,233 - Thank you so much. 30 00:01:15,233 --> 00:01:17,166 I publish books all the time, every year, 31 00:01:17,166 --> 00:01:19,200 and I go out on the road and every once in a while 32 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:20,800 somebody says, congratulations, 33 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:22,733 and I'm wondering, for what? 34 00:01:22,733 --> 00:01:24,766 It's like going to war when you publish a book. 35 00:01:24,766 --> 00:01:28,466 - No, it's like giving birth, here it is. 36 00:01:28,466 --> 00:01:29,933 It was long awaited. 37 00:01:29,933 --> 00:01:31,466 No, no, the thing about this book that I thought was 38 00:01:31,466 --> 00:01:34,133 especially great was it took me back, truly took me back 39 00:01:34,133 --> 00:01:36,366 to the mid and early 90s, you know. 40 00:01:36,366 --> 00:01:40,266 This is a novel based on real events. 41 00:01:40,266 --> 00:01:43,133 It's based on the experience of Biosphere, 42 00:01:43,133 --> 00:01:46,800 Biosphere 2 in Arizona in the early 90s. 43 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,966 You have really drawn a picture that is similar to, 44 00:01:49,966 --> 00:01:52,066 but, in so many ways, different from the real thing. 45 00:01:52,066 --> 00:01:53,500 - Well, thank you. 46 00:01:53,500 --> 00:01:56,500 When the Biosphere 2 experiment first happened in 47 00:01:56,500 --> 00:02:00,666 91 through 93 northeast of Tucson, I was fascinated by this. 48 00:02:02,066 --> 00:02:04,133 Like most of the public, I clipped out all the articles. 49 00:02:04,133 --> 00:02:06,500 I thought, this is right up my alley because 50 00:02:06,500 --> 00:02:09,800 as you know, Evan, I often write about ecological concerns. 51 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,133 For those who don't know, a friendly Texas billionaire-- 52 00:02:14,133 --> 00:02:15,600 - Ed Bass. 53 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,300 - Ed Bass put up the money to create a new world. 54 00:02:21,466 --> 00:02:25,366 3.15 acres, 3800 species of plants and insects, 55 00:02:26,833 --> 00:02:30,666 four men, four women, to be sealed inside for two years. 56 00:02:30,666 --> 00:02:34,100 This was the first closure of a projected 50 57 00:02:34,100 --> 00:02:36,066 so this would go on for 100 years. 58 00:02:36,066 --> 00:02:39,266 The whole point is, NASA is still after this, by the way, 59 00:02:39,266 --> 00:02:43,166 is could we create another biosphere, other than the one 60 00:02:43,166 --> 00:02:45,900 we live in here, in the event that this one 61 00:02:45,900 --> 00:02:47,800 should collapse, which it sure looks like 62 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,166 it's happening right now-- - Honestly, 63 00:02:49,166 --> 00:02:50,466 it's about 50/50 isn't it? 64 00:02:50,466 --> 00:02:52,700 - Exactly, or a Mars colony, or whatever. 65 00:02:52,700 --> 00:02:55,333 - And the idea was that they would be observed as a 66 00:02:55,333 --> 00:02:58,933 laboratory experiment or a laboratory environment all along. 67 00:02:58,933 --> 00:03:01,733 - Yeah, they were famous. 68 00:03:01,733 --> 00:03:04,466 They were aping the astronauts of NASA. 69 00:03:04,466 --> 00:03:07,666 Now, NASA was congenial with them but this was 70 00:03:07,666 --> 00:03:10,300 a private enterprise, a tremendous chutzpah. 71 00:03:10,300 --> 00:03:13,100 I mean, build a new world? 72 00:03:13,100 --> 00:03:18,066 Also, what the fun of it for me is they had hundreds of 73 00:03:18,066 --> 00:03:22,066 scientists helping to build this thing. 74 00:03:22,066 --> 00:03:25,166 I would think they would put in maybe just one biome. 75 00:03:25,166 --> 00:03:27,266 They did take a section from a Florida Everglades, 76 00:03:27,266 --> 00:03:29,366 for instance, for their marsh. 77 00:03:29,366 --> 00:03:31,533 Instead, they had five biomes. 78 00:03:31,533 --> 00:03:34,133 - You had savanna, you had desert, you had marsh-- 79 00:03:34,133 --> 00:03:34,966 - And ocean. 80 00:03:34,966 --> 00:03:36,133 - Ocean. 81 00:03:36,133 --> 00:03:39,733 - Which with tropical fish, and so on. 82 00:03:39,733 --> 00:03:42,066 It was kind of a mix and match world that they created 83 00:03:42,066 --> 00:03:44,300 and they had galagos in there. 84 00:03:44,300 --> 00:03:47,833 These are the bush babies from Africa, these prosimians, 85 00:03:47,833 --> 00:03:50,600 very cute, this big, they, climbing through the trees 86 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,933 in the rainforest that they built. 87 00:03:52,933 --> 00:03:54,133 Why'd they put them in there? 88 00:03:54,133 --> 00:03:55,566 For fun, for fun. 89 00:03:57,666 --> 00:04:01,233 A fascinating thing is, if it had go on 100 years, 90 00:04:01,233 --> 00:04:03,266 by the way, it didn't, the friendly billionaire 91 00:04:03,266 --> 00:04:05,166 got into a fight with the friendly creator 92 00:04:05,166 --> 00:04:07,333 and bailed out six months into the second-- 93 00:04:07,333 --> 00:04:10,300 - Second time, it always happens. 94 00:04:10,300 --> 00:04:12,700 We have big aspirations and then it ends up not happening. 95 00:04:12,700 --> 00:04:15,700 - Anyway, if it had happened for 100 years, okay, 96 00:04:15,700 --> 00:04:18,166 successively every two years they put in a new crew, 97 00:04:18,166 --> 00:04:21,266 but, imagine what that world would be like. 98 00:04:21,266 --> 00:04:23,633 There are so many unforeseen consequences 99 00:04:23,633 --> 00:04:25,266 when you try to be God. 100 00:04:25,266 --> 00:04:27,233 For instance, it took them a year and a half to 101 00:04:27,233 --> 00:04:29,966 build it and enclose it, and in that time, 102 00:04:29,966 --> 00:04:33,266 some invasive species came in, some volunteers. 103 00:04:33,266 --> 00:04:36,900 They put in three species of cockroach because they're 104 00:04:36,900 --> 00:04:39,500 essential detritivores to this world. 105 00:04:39,500 --> 00:04:42,200 But, the cockroach that some unfortunate people 106 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,466 watching this see under the bathroom sink, 107 00:04:44,466 --> 00:04:46,833 that one got in, too, and, of course, took right over. 108 00:04:46,833 --> 00:04:49,800 - Right, I mean, the law of unforeseen consequences 109 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,600 is in effect here, and sort of the arrogance of assuming, 110 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,333 you used to describe it as playing God, 111 00:04:55,333 --> 00:04:57,100 they were literally in this case. 112 00:04:57,100 --> 00:04:59,000 That's often used not literally. 113 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,600 This is literally creating a world, right? 114 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,033 Playing God. 115 00:05:03,033 --> 00:05:03,866 - Exactly. 116 00:05:05,333 --> 00:05:08,400 I also thought, what if we had 10 friendly billionaires 117 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:09,333 and we built 10 of these-- 118 00:05:09,333 --> 00:05:10,600 - 10 different ones at the 119 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:11,800 same time? - Yeah, and they could be 120 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,400 a mile apart, and they could even try put 121 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,400 the same suite of creatures in each one. 122 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,000 After 100 years it be a totally different world. 123 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,200 They were criticized because it's not real science. 124 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,733 Science, you have a theory and you test it. 125 00:05:23,733 --> 00:05:25,433 This was more theatrical. 126 00:05:25,433 --> 00:05:27,766 It was more like, hey, kids, 127 00:05:28,933 --> 00:05:30,333 [Both] let's put on a show. (laughing) 128 00:05:30,333 --> 00:05:32,366 - And to the point of being theatrical, 129 00:05:32,366 --> 00:05:34,533 it really was as much entertainment as it was science 130 00:05:34,533 --> 00:05:36,900 in that you also had these eight personalities 131 00:05:36,900 --> 00:05:39,833 who were placed in this experience. 132 00:05:39,833 --> 00:05:42,366 Honestly, this was the first reality show. 133 00:05:42,366 --> 00:05:45,833 As I'm reading this book, I'm reminded that this is 134 00:05:45,833 --> 00:05:48,366 really a reality show that was a precursor 135 00:05:48,366 --> 00:05:50,033 to everything that's come. 136 00:05:50,033 --> 00:05:51,800 - It remains, by the way, a tourist attraction. 137 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,300 You can go there, I've been there. 138 00:05:53,300 --> 00:05:55,800 They'll take you through it, it's just not closed. 139 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,766 Absolutely, again, these people were on the front page 140 00:05:58,766 --> 00:06:02,133 of all the newspapers, and magazines, and everything else. 141 00:06:02,133 --> 00:06:05,200 Everything they did, behind the glass wall were tourists 142 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,233 who paid to come and see them-- 143 00:06:07,233 --> 00:06:08,466 - And gawk. 144 00:06:08,466 --> 00:06:10,233 - And gawk, while they were slopping pigs and-- 145 00:06:10,233 --> 00:06:12,866 - The book you've written, instead of Biosphere 2, 146 00:06:12,866 --> 00:06:15,433 it's Ecosphere 2, it's E2. 147 00:06:15,433 --> 00:06:18,133 You have eight people, as was the case back then, 148 00:06:18,133 --> 00:06:22,333 they're all white, in fact, the women are all blonde, right? 149 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:25,533 And to think, again, let's just go back for a moment 150 00:06:25,533 --> 00:06:27,200 to when this really occurred. 151 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,233 Could you imagine getting away with this kind of 152 00:06:29,233 --> 00:06:33,466 a public experiment where the participants are all white? 153 00:06:33,466 --> 00:06:36,400 Today, I mean, this would be a protest, 154 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,533 you'd have this whole cry, right I mean, this is a very 155 00:06:38,533 --> 00:06:39,800 different world. - This is part 156 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:41,333 of why I'm setting this in the past. 157 00:06:41,333 --> 00:06:44,233 To examine that and see what those ironies are all about. 158 00:06:44,233 --> 00:06:45,933 - Also, pre-technology. 159 00:06:45,933 --> 00:06:47,733 - Yeah, they didn't-- - no social media, 160 00:06:47,733 --> 00:06:49,633 no cellphones, none of that stuff. 161 00:06:49,633 --> 00:06:53,166 - The beauty of this is I can take the original history, 162 00:06:53,166 --> 00:06:56,600 all the details I've just given you, or part of this. 163 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:57,900 The Biosphere has wrote books. 164 00:06:57,900 --> 00:06:59,966 There's a whole history of this full of 165 00:06:59,966 --> 00:07:01,400 newspaper articles and so on. 166 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,133 - But, you had a wealth of material to draw on. 167 00:07:03,133 --> 00:07:06,400 - Of course, but then I can project a second closure, 168 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,166 and in mine, it's even more of a big brother sort of 169 00:07:10,166 --> 00:07:13,466 atmosphere, just for the fun of it, so they're not 170 00:07:13,466 --> 00:07:16,066 allowed to communicate with the outside world 171 00:07:16,066 --> 00:07:18,666 except at the visitor's window. 172 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,466 It's like prison, you have a little phone 173 00:07:22,466 --> 00:07:23,866 and there's the window. 174 00:07:23,866 --> 00:07:26,000 They would give a handshake by putting 175 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,900 their hands to the glass. 176 00:07:28,900 --> 00:07:31,700 And, of course, there's a little simulated sex 177 00:07:31,700 --> 00:07:33,966 going on, too, right at that window. 178 00:07:33,966 --> 00:07:38,000 In fact, I didn't realize how sexy this was going to be. 179 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,433 Four men, four women, locked inside-- 180 00:07:40,433 --> 00:07:41,833 - Yeah, how could you have imagined? 181 00:07:41,833 --> 00:07:43,333 - What are they gonna do? (laughing) 182 00:07:43,333 --> 00:07:46,466 - What could you have been thinking about? 183 00:07:46,466 --> 00:07:50,233 What I love, as well, about the story is that it's told 184 00:07:50,233 --> 00:07:53,100 in a series of alternating, or rotating, narratives. 185 00:07:53,100 --> 00:07:56,433 Two of the participants of the eight, and one of the 186 00:07:56,433 --> 00:07:59,333 people who hoped to be a participant but was not chosen 187 00:07:59,333 --> 00:08:02,166 and then ends up working, essentially, on the outside 188 00:08:02,166 --> 00:08:04,366 with the hope of getting into a future one of these. 189 00:08:04,366 --> 00:08:06,566 They're the three narrators. 190 00:08:06,566 --> 00:08:08,766 One of the three, the man, Ramsay Roothoorp, 191 00:08:08,766 --> 00:08:10,300 is actually kind of a horn-dog. 192 00:08:10,300 --> 00:08:12,400 That would be the technical phrase, is that right? 193 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:13,633 - Yeah, that's the typical phrase. 194 00:08:13,633 --> 00:08:15,566 - PBS friendly phrase, yeah, this is a guy 195 00:08:15,566 --> 00:08:17,766 who is a bit of a sex-obsessive. 196 00:08:17,766 --> 00:08:21,400 - Yes, so, you mention having that, or three narrators. 197 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:22,866 I've never done this before. 198 00:08:22,866 --> 00:08:24,733 I'm always trying to do something new at every book. 199 00:08:24,733 --> 00:08:25,900 - Right, mix up the structure. 200 00:08:25,900 --> 00:08:27,133 - Mix up the structure. 201 00:08:27,133 --> 00:08:29,333 So, they talk to you, ultimately first person, 202 00:08:29,333 --> 00:08:31,500 right at you, so it becomes very intimate. 203 00:08:31,500 --> 00:08:34,066 And, of course, as in any group of people 204 00:08:34,066 --> 00:08:38,066 trying to get ahead, they have their conflicts. 205 00:08:38,066 --> 00:08:40,800 The points of view might cover the same territory, 206 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:42,400 but in a different way. 207 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,200 - Yeah, it's got a little Rashomon quality to it, right, 208 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,033 how you tell the story is how you see the story. 209 00:08:46,033 --> 00:08:50,200 - Exactly, exactly, so one of the ones who was excluded, 210 00:08:51,466 --> 00:08:53,433 of the three narrators, we have Dawn Chapman, 211 00:08:53,433 --> 00:08:55,233 she is a very pretty blond. 212 00:08:55,233 --> 00:08:59,333 Again, this is theater, so they want a good-looking woman 213 00:08:59,333 --> 00:09:01,933 who can look good in a swimsuit. 214 00:09:01,933 --> 00:09:04,233 Then there's Ramsay Roothoorp, who you mentioned 215 00:09:04,233 --> 00:09:06,433 is the communications officer. 216 00:09:06,433 --> 00:09:09,366 And the third narrator is a woman who's been excluded. 217 00:09:09,366 --> 00:09:11,833 She was part of the sixteen, but wasn't chosen. 218 00:09:11,833 --> 00:09:14,900 She's Korean, her name is Linda Ryu, and she is now 219 00:09:14,900 --> 00:09:17,466 promised that she'll get in the next time 220 00:09:17,466 --> 00:09:19,366 if she remains as support staff. 221 00:09:19,366 --> 00:09:21,366 All of these people, it's a kind of cult. 222 00:09:21,366 --> 00:09:24,666 They want desperately to be in, and so they will do 223 00:09:24,666 --> 00:09:27,766 whatever mission control tells them to do. 224 00:09:27,766 --> 00:09:30,366 Linda is a little bitter. (laughing) 225 00:09:30,366 --> 00:09:33,200 - I love the characters then, and I also love 226 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:37,533 the concept that you've overlaid, you eluded to Ed Bass's 227 00:09:37,533 --> 00:09:39,000 involvement in the previous. 228 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,266 There is God, the creator, GC, and then there is 229 00:09:42,266 --> 00:09:47,266 God the financier, GF, who are themselves relevant 230 00:09:47,266 --> 00:09:49,733 players in this world that you've created. 231 00:09:49,733 --> 00:09:51,866 Honestly, as you think about this, or as I think about 232 00:09:51,866 --> 00:09:55,033 this book, it's got elements of, as I said, reality shows, 233 00:09:55,033 --> 00:09:57,233 but it also feels a little bit like 1984, it feels 234 00:09:57,233 --> 00:09:59,466 a little bit like The Wizard of Oz. 235 00:09:59,466 --> 00:10:01,066 There's actually elements of stories that are 236 00:10:01,066 --> 00:10:02,900 very familiar to us that you've brought together in this 237 00:10:02,900 --> 00:10:05,933 and I think that it ends up being a very interesting 238 00:10:05,933 --> 00:10:07,966 story as you tell it, and I think people who have read 239 00:10:07,966 --> 00:10:10,166 your books in the past know that you're obsessed with 240 00:10:10,166 --> 00:10:13,233 sub-cultures and you're obsessed also with dominant 241 00:10:13,233 --> 00:10:16,700 institutions and individuals, whether it's a Kellogg, 242 00:10:16,700 --> 00:10:19,100 or Frank Lloyd Wright, or Kinsey, you know, 243 00:10:19,100 --> 00:10:20,566 people you've written about in the past. 244 00:10:20,566 --> 00:10:23,900 You do well writing about that universe. 245 00:10:25,233 --> 00:10:29,000 - I don't trust, as an American who has done and said 246 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,333 whatever he wants his entire life and has been able, 247 00:10:31,333 --> 00:10:34,866 in this great country, to have a life as an artist, 248 00:10:34,866 --> 00:10:38,700 I don't trust the domineering leader who says, 249 00:10:40,100 --> 00:10:42,933 whether it's in fundamentalist religion or in politics, 250 00:10:42,933 --> 00:10:47,466 who says, give yourself over to me and I will guide you. 251 00:10:47,466 --> 00:10:49,066 - I alone can fix it. 252 00:10:49,066 --> 00:10:50,966 That phrase is running through my head. 253 00:10:50,966 --> 00:10:53,533 - Yeah, I wonder why. 254 00:10:53,533 --> 00:10:56,300 - That's actually been a consistent through-line 255 00:10:56,300 --> 00:10:57,833 in a number of your books. 256 00:10:57,833 --> 00:10:59,300 - Again, Evan, you don't know what your themes are 257 00:10:59,300 --> 00:11:00,566 when you start to write. 258 00:11:00,566 --> 00:11:02,000 You can only see this in retrospect. 259 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,500 So, yeah, I mean, I'm fascinated by cults and groups. 260 00:11:05,500 --> 00:11:09,333 A lot of you will remember my novel from 2003, 261 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,300 Drop City, which goes back to the Back-To-The-Earth movement 262 00:11:14,300 --> 00:11:16,400 of the late 60s, hippies. 263 00:11:17,833 --> 00:11:21,333 The whole proposition was this wheel of capitalism 264 00:11:21,333 --> 00:11:24,133 is destroying the world, can we get off it, and go back 265 00:11:24,133 --> 00:11:26,133 to nature, and live simply. 266 00:11:26,133 --> 00:11:28,533 Well, of course, we can't, there's seven billion of us. 267 00:11:28,533 --> 00:11:30,400 - But, in some ways, these two books, Drop City 268 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,800 and this book, are actually married thematically. 269 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,566 I was amazed in going back to look over your career 270 00:11:36,566 --> 00:11:40,233 that really the only one of your works of fiction, 271 00:11:40,233 --> 00:11:42,800 this is the 16th novel, there have also been 10 books 272 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:44,900 of short-stories, the only thing that really has been 273 00:11:44,900 --> 00:11:48,500 translated into an entertainment vehicle that we would 274 00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:51,066 recognize or remember was The Road to Wellville. 275 00:11:51,066 --> 00:11:53,733 - Right, Anthony Hopkins, Bridget Fonda, Matthew Broderick, 276 00:11:53,733 --> 00:11:56,100 Alan Parker, the great Alan Parker directed this film. 277 00:11:56,100 --> 00:11:57,500 - I love the movie, I love everything about it. 278 00:11:57,500 --> 00:12:01,333 I don't participate in films because, well, 279 00:12:01,333 --> 00:12:05,100 the artistic reason is I have to make my life's work, 280 00:12:05,100 --> 00:12:07,566 this is it, it's a distraction. 281 00:12:07,566 --> 00:12:09,466 There's another reason, too. 282 00:12:09,466 --> 00:12:12,700 I couldn't imagine doing anything creative with 283 00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:15,100 somebody else's opinion involved. 284 00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:16,933 - Well, it's your book, but when it becomes a movie, 285 00:12:16,933 --> 00:12:19,200 it really becomes theirs, right, I mean, you have to be able 286 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:20,300 to distance yourself from 287 00:12:20,300 --> 00:12:21,833 that creative process. - I met Alan 288 00:12:21,833 --> 00:12:23,066 when he bought it and we had a dinner, and it was very nice. 289 00:12:23,066 --> 00:12:25,400 I realized, I'm a fan of his, I love his work, 290 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,100 he had made The Commitments just before this. 291 00:12:28,100 --> 00:12:31,100 He's exactly like me, he's pedal to the metal, 292 00:12:31,100 --> 00:12:35,166 this is his project, and I loved what he did. 293 00:12:35,166 --> 00:12:38,266 The Terranauts, this is the first time this has happened, 294 00:12:38,266 --> 00:12:42,433 has been bought for TV by Warner Bros. and Jim Parsons, 295 00:12:44,066 --> 00:12:45,900 the actor, Jim Parsons-- 296 00:12:45,900 --> 00:12:47,233 - They think they wanna make it into a series? 297 00:12:47,233 --> 00:12:48,733 - They will make it into a series. 298 00:12:48,733 --> 00:12:50,233 - See, I wondered about that because as I read this, 299 00:12:50,233 --> 00:12:54,000 actually, my thought was, it seemed like a play 300 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,400 because the setting is effectively stationary, 301 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,333 not literally stationary, but it's effectively stationary, 302 00:12:59,333 --> 00:13:01,066 it's sort of one setting. 303 00:13:01,066 --> 00:13:04,366 I thought it lent itself almost to be 304 00:13:04,366 --> 00:13:05,933 made into a stage play. 305 00:13:05,933 --> 00:13:09,433 - And don't forget, I'm also taking the reality of this 306 00:13:09,433 --> 00:13:12,700 in which they did, the Terranauts, where the Biosphere ends, 307 00:13:12,700 --> 00:13:16,033 did produce plays inside as a way of bonding, 308 00:13:16,033 --> 00:13:18,633 and also to perform for people. 309 00:13:18,633 --> 00:13:21,866 Further, since there are 50 2-year closures, 310 00:13:21,866 --> 00:13:24,900 if this show were to come and be successful, 311 00:13:24,900 --> 00:13:27,200 our great-grandchildren could be watching it still. 312 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:28,800 You know, anything could happen because you have 313 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:30,666 eight new people going in each time. 314 00:13:30,666 --> 00:13:33,333 - Well, again, I come back to, I'm embarrassed to say, 315 00:13:33,333 --> 00:13:35,200 the low-culture reference that came to mind 316 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,200 reading this book was MTV's the Real World. 317 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,366 In some ways where it's like a different cast of characters 318 00:13:40,366 --> 00:13:42,400 every season and a different location, I thought 319 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,333 that's basically Biosphere 2 on MTV. 320 00:13:45,333 --> 00:13:48,300 - I have to confess that while I'm sitting here on TV 321 00:13:48,300 --> 00:13:51,900 with you, the amazing host of an amazing show, 322 00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:53,700 I've never seen any reality TV-- 323 00:13:53,700 --> 00:13:54,666 - Is that right? 324 00:13:54,666 --> 00:13:55,733 God, good for you, oh my gosh. 325 00:13:55,733 --> 00:13:56,833 (audience laughing) 326 00:13:56,833 --> 00:13:58,633 On behalf of America, thank you. 327 00:13:58,633 --> 00:14:00,366 You're not part of the problem. 328 00:14:00,366 --> 00:14:04,200 - As I say, I have inner resources, I know how to read. 329 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,766 I don't need reality TV, in fact, couldn't imagine 330 00:14:06,766 --> 00:14:08,266 watching one second of it-- 331 00:14:08,266 --> 00:14:11,766 - What's remarkable is how you've gotten everything 332 00:14:11,766 --> 00:14:14,733 perfectly, instinctively, without actually having seen it. 333 00:14:14,733 --> 00:14:18,900 I mentioned 16 novels and 10 works of short-fiction. 334 00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:21,500 I wonder which you prefer. 335 00:14:21,500 --> 00:14:23,866 Your novels are not, themselves, the extension of 336 00:14:23,866 --> 00:14:25,333 the short-stories that you write. 337 00:14:25,333 --> 00:14:27,000 You don't start out to write something in miniature 338 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:28,600 and then make it into a full novel, 339 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,166 so you really are picking, essentially, one or the other. 340 00:14:31,166 --> 00:14:33,833 Do you have a preference? 341 00:14:33,833 --> 00:14:36,033 - Each has its joys. 342 00:14:36,033 --> 00:14:38,166 The novel, you know what you're gonna do tomorrow 343 00:14:38,166 --> 00:14:41,433 when you wake up, however, you're locked into it, 344 00:14:41,433 --> 00:14:44,000 so whatever you should tell me, or my friends tell me, 345 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,533 or excites me that's happening technologically, 346 00:14:46,533 --> 00:14:48,033 I can't write about. 347 00:14:48,033 --> 00:14:49,566 With a story, it's the opposite. 348 00:14:49,566 --> 00:14:53,666 Anything that occurs to you, you can just jam up a story. 349 00:14:53,666 --> 00:14:57,066 However, once the story's over, let's say it takes a month 350 00:14:57,066 --> 00:14:59,400 from the initial idea, two weeks of the writing, 351 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,900 a week to polish, then you send it off, 352 00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:03,633 then you're completely bereft. 353 00:15:03,633 --> 00:15:05,066 You don't know what you're gonna do tomorrow 354 00:15:05,066 --> 00:15:07,433 and you have a period where you have no ideas 355 00:15:07,433 --> 00:15:11,366 and you twirl that gun on your desk a lot, you know, 356 00:15:11,366 --> 00:15:13,266 to kinda stimulate yourself. 357 00:15:13,266 --> 00:15:16,366 It's very difficult, but I think one of the reasons 358 00:15:16,366 --> 00:15:18,833 I've been so productive is I've been able to go from 359 00:15:18,833 --> 00:15:20,900 one form to the other, back and forth. 360 00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:22,800 - Well, in fact, you've already gone, as I understand it, 361 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,966 to your next creative output will be a book of stories. 362 00:15:28,133 --> 00:15:29,633 - Yeah, the book of stories for next year, 363 00:15:29,633 --> 00:15:31,500 I delivered it earlier and I'm working on the research 364 00:15:31,500 --> 00:15:32,933 for the next novel. 365 00:15:32,933 --> 00:15:35,300 - I wanna go back to your origins as a writer. 366 00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:38,066 The first thing you published was in fact a short-story, 367 00:15:38,066 --> 00:15:39,533 was it not? 368 00:15:39,533 --> 00:15:40,833 - Yes, and my first book was a collection of stories. 369 00:15:40,833 --> 00:15:42,033 - Talk about that time. 370 00:15:42,033 --> 00:15:44,200 You grew up in Peekskill, New York. 371 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,400 You went to college in the Suny system, an undergraduate, 372 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,833 and then you had a period of time when, 373 00:15:49,833 --> 00:15:52,100 as they say, you were younger and wilder, 374 00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:54,300 right, you had kind of a wild period. 375 00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:55,233 As a musician-- 376 00:15:55,233 --> 00:15:56,466 - Well, shucks, who doesn't? 377 00:15:56,466 --> 00:15:57,700 - Right, everybody had one, I'm not 378 00:15:57,700 --> 00:15:59,600 passing judgement, it's an observation. 379 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,733 But, you eventually went on to the Iowa Writers' Workshop, 380 00:16:02,733 --> 00:16:06,466 got graduate degrees there, and the short-story 381 00:16:06,466 --> 00:16:08,566 that you first wrote and published was actually 382 00:16:08,566 --> 00:16:11,200 instrumental to pointing you on that path, was it not? 383 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:12,700 - It was. 384 00:16:12,700 --> 00:16:15,533 So, I was very lucky early on to get a story published. 385 00:16:15,533 --> 00:16:18,966 And then that gave me the confidence to apply to 386 00:16:18,966 --> 00:16:21,166 the only graduate program I had ever heard of, 387 00:16:21,166 --> 00:16:22,433 the Iowa Writers' Workshop, where all 388 00:16:22,433 --> 00:16:24,933 my heroes had gone, or taught. 389 00:16:26,333 --> 00:16:28,133 By the grace of God, they accepted me, 390 00:16:28,133 --> 00:16:30,066 and I also did my PhD there. 391 00:16:30,066 --> 00:16:31,700 - John Cheever was a professor of yours. 392 00:16:31,700 --> 00:16:34,933 - John Cheever, John Irving, and Vance Bourjaily, 393 00:16:34,933 --> 00:16:37,266 who had been John Irving's teacher in the Workshop. 394 00:16:37,266 --> 00:16:40,000 - It's like the very best possible people 395 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,466 you could learn from, right? 396 00:16:41,466 --> 00:16:44,266 - Yes, Evan, but as you know, when you're an artist, 397 00:16:44,266 --> 00:16:49,100 whether it's in music, or in the literary arts, or painting, 398 00:16:49,100 --> 00:16:50,866 you already know how to do it. 399 00:16:50,866 --> 00:16:55,000 What you need is a guide or coach to say, alright, kid, 400 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,800 you're on the right track, which is essentially what 401 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,633 all three did for me, very generously. 402 00:16:59,633 --> 00:17:04,100 But really, no one can teach you how to do it. 403 00:17:04,100 --> 00:17:07,266 No one really offered suggestions, 404 00:17:07,266 --> 00:17:10,900 they just read it and encouraged me. 405 00:17:10,900 --> 00:17:13,066 - You've gotten better over time in your own mind, right? 406 00:17:13,066 --> 00:17:16,200 The T. C. Boyle of those days in Iowa, who thought he knew 407 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,000 a lot and thought he could do a lot, learned over time 408 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,800 what more he could do and what was 409 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,300 right and wrong with his work. 410 00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:24,466 - I think you grow. 411 00:17:24,466 --> 00:17:26,500 You grow as an artist if you're lucky. 412 00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:30,400 And I have no restrictions, I write in any mode 413 00:17:31,333 --> 00:17:33,166 that occurs to me. 414 00:17:33,166 --> 00:17:37,633 I think that allows me to be very productive. 415 00:17:37,633 --> 00:17:39,966 When I first began writing, in my first 416 00:17:39,966 --> 00:17:42,666 collection of stories, I was much more interested in 417 00:17:42,666 --> 00:17:45,500 humor, design, and language than in character. 418 00:17:45,500 --> 00:17:47,333 I didn't really have much by way of 419 00:17:47,333 --> 00:17:49,033 character in the stories. 420 00:17:49,033 --> 00:17:50,866 My wife would always say, well, you know, 421 00:17:50,866 --> 00:17:53,166 your women characters are really flat, and I would counter 422 00:17:53,166 --> 00:17:55,533 by saying, yeah, well, so are my men. (laughing) 423 00:17:55,533 --> 00:17:57,933 - Yeah, there's an equal opportunity. 424 00:17:57,933 --> 00:18:00,166 - Then I wrote, Water Music, my first novel. 425 00:18:00,166 --> 00:18:03,266 You can't write a novel without creating great characters. 426 00:18:03,266 --> 00:18:04,966 That taught me something. 427 00:18:04,966 --> 00:18:06,933 Cheever taught me something, too, in this, 428 00:18:06,933 --> 00:18:09,666 when I met him, he was sort of on the run, 429 00:18:09,666 --> 00:18:14,366 he was drinking a lot, and he seemed impossibly old to me. 430 00:18:14,366 --> 00:18:16,200 He was 62 at the time. 431 00:18:17,633 --> 00:18:20,266 I had read his stories some years before but they were 432 00:18:20,266 --> 00:18:23,433 more in a conventional mode and I was an experimenter 433 00:18:23,433 --> 00:18:26,866 and he was just this old guy, you know, who cared. 434 00:18:26,866 --> 00:18:29,933 Then, he published his collective stories which I read, 435 00:18:29,933 --> 00:18:31,400 probably every decade, I read through that-- 436 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,500 - You've cited this as actually one of your favorite-- 437 00:18:33,500 --> 00:18:35,433 - It's a touchstone for me. 438 00:18:35,433 --> 00:18:38,966 And he taught me to expand in another direction, 439 00:18:38,966 --> 00:18:40,166 towards realism. 440 00:18:40,166 --> 00:18:42,066 I'd never been interested. 441 00:18:42,066 --> 00:18:45,666 Also, at that time, Ray Carver was living in town 442 00:18:45,666 --> 00:18:47,266 and I became friendly with him, and, of course, 443 00:18:47,266 --> 00:18:50,266 I was under the spell of his magnificent fiction, which is 444 00:18:50,266 --> 00:18:54,866 primarily in a realistic mode, so I adopted that, too. 445 00:18:54,866 --> 00:18:59,000 I can go from a kind of folk-tales, or to surreal stories 446 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:00,700 like the one that you've just mentioned 447 00:19:00,700 --> 00:19:02,600 that's in the New Yorker this week. 448 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,466 And the previous New Yorker story, three months ago, 449 00:19:04,466 --> 00:19:07,533 The Fugitive, is straightforward realism, 450 00:19:07,533 --> 00:19:09,533 and it's about something that's happening 451 00:19:09,533 --> 00:19:11,700 in Santa Barbara, where I live. 452 00:19:11,700 --> 00:19:15,533 A guy has multiple drug-resistant tuberculosis. 453 00:19:15,533 --> 00:19:19,000 He's a transient, he didn't take his meds, 454 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,400 so his body is a furnace for creating new strains of TB 455 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,800 that will kill us all. 456 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,700 He was being pursued as a criminal. 457 00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:29,766 He hadn't committed any crimes. 458 00:19:29,766 --> 00:19:31,300 What are the ethics of that? 459 00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:33,166 Did it mean, do we have the right to lock somebody up 460 00:19:33,166 --> 00:19:34,900 who has not committed a crime because they're 461 00:19:34,900 --> 00:19:36,566 a threat to public health? 462 00:19:36,566 --> 00:19:38,800 I wrote the story to kind of investigate that, 463 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:43,300 but it's in the same book as Are We Not Men, 464 00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:45,233 and another story that hasn't been published yet, 465 00:19:45,233 --> 00:19:49,400 Warrior Jesus, about a cartoonist who creates a superhero. 466 00:19:52,533 --> 00:19:55,500 It's great that I can move from one to the other. 467 00:19:55,500 --> 00:19:57,900 - Where do these ideas for the short-stories 468 00:19:57,900 --> 00:20:00,600 or an idea like the, I mean, I think there's an obvious 469 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,333 basis for this book, and I know that you've said 470 00:20:03,333 --> 00:20:07,233 previously that at the time that Biosphere 1 was going on, 471 00:20:07,233 --> 00:20:09,166 and even Biosphere 2 was going on, you were thinking 472 00:20:09,166 --> 00:20:12,866 to yourself, boy, I should write about this, right. 473 00:20:12,866 --> 00:20:15,166 The idea for this actually goes back to the origin. 474 00:20:15,166 --> 00:20:18,933 - Right, but, like most of the public, I became 475 00:20:18,933 --> 00:20:22,566 disenchanted with this because the hook was 476 00:20:22,566 --> 00:20:24,166 absolute material closure. 477 00:20:24,166 --> 00:20:26,566 They had sealed that thing so that there was 478 00:20:26,566 --> 00:20:30,666 less transference of air from there to the outside world 479 00:20:30,666 --> 00:20:33,200 than even in the space shuttle. 480 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,466 So this is exciting, they can't get out. 481 00:20:35,466 --> 00:20:37,700 In fact, it is true that with the real Biosphere 482 00:20:37,700 --> 00:20:41,266 that somebody put your extra-large pepperoni pizza 483 00:20:41,266 --> 00:20:44,400 outside the airlock to see if they would open it. 484 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:45,900 - Right, tempt them. 485 00:20:45,900 --> 00:20:49,166 - So, 12 days in, and again, I have the real history, 486 00:20:49,166 --> 00:20:50,733 I can tell the story. 487 00:20:50,733 --> 00:20:55,166 One of the Biospherians cut the tip of her finger off-- 488 00:20:55,166 --> 00:20:58,900 - She was working like a rice hulling machine. 489 00:20:58,900 --> 00:21:01,166 - So, one of the eight, of course, has to be an MD, 490 00:21:01,166 --> 00:21:03,700 for obvious reasons, and he sewed it back together 491 00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:06,300 and did his best, but it wasn't looking too good. 492 00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:08,733 It was kinda looking like blood sausage, you know. 493 00:21:08,733 --> 00:21:11,033 So, she held her hand up to the window 494 00:21:11,033 --> 00:21:13,600 and they got the best hand-man in Pima County 495 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:14,966 to come and look at it, he said, you gotta come out 496 00:21:14,966 --> 00:21:17,266 of there or you're gonna lose that. 497 00:21:17,266 --> 00:21:20,400 She came out into our world, 12-days into this, 498 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,766 for five hours only. 499 00:21:22,766 --> 00:21:26,100 They even estimated how many lungs-full of our air 500 00:21:26,100 --> 00:21:30,166 she breathed rather than the inside the Biosphere. 501 00:21:30,166 --> 00:21:32,566 She went back in and she was carrying two bags with her, 502 00:21:32,566 --> 00:21:35,333 two shopping bags, that nobody knows what was in them. 503 00:21:35,333 --> 00:21:39,433 But, still, if it was Mars, they'd be dead. 504 00:21:39,433 --> 00:21:40,966 The public began to lose interest 505 00:21:40,966 --> 00:21:43,066 because they broke closure. 506 00:21:43,066 --> 00:21:47,633 In my telling, of course, now I'm positing a second of 507 00:21:47,633 --> 00:21:51,466 49 more closures, and this crew is determined, 508 00:21:52,900 --> 00:21:55,133 even if somebody should die inside, no matter what, 509 00:21:55,133 --> 00:21:57,700 they're not gonna break that, because that 510 00:21:57,700 --> 00:21:59,433 killed the deal the first time around. 511 00:21:59,433 --> 00:22:02,500 It's wonderful for me to have this real history 512 00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:03,933 and then project. 513 00:22:03,933 --> 00:22:05,433 - In that respect, the real history is the impetus 514 00:22:05,433 --> 00:22:07,900 and it's also the, it's the basis, but I'm saying, 515 00:22:07,900 --> 00:22:09,400 in the case of other things you've written, 516 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,233 or the short-stories, are you collecting ideas as you go? 517 00:22:13,233 --> 00:22:14,966 Do you have a list of things that you wanna 518 00:22:14,966 --> 00:22:16,300 get to eventually-- 519 00:22:16,300 --> 00:22:17,533 - Right now-- 520 00:22:17,533 --> 00:22:19,033 - I wanna understand the creative process. 521 00:22:19,033 --> 00:22:20,266 - Right now, already, just talking with you, Evan, 522 00:22:20,266 --> 00:22:22,333 I have 20 new ideas, I gotta scribble them down 523 00:22:22,333 --> 00:22:24,266 when I go offstage. - I'm mortified. 524 00:22:24,266 --> 00:22:26,133 I can't imagine what those are. 525 00:22:26,133 --> 00:22:28,200 Lame talk-show host asks questions. 526 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:29,233 (laughing) 527 00:22:29,233 --> 00:22:30,733 That's a story. 528 00:22:30,733 --> 00:22:33,800 No, seriously, obviously, every author approaches 529 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,533 these things differently, and I'm just interested in 530 00:22:35,533 --> 00:22:38,400 the creative process where you fit yourself 531 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:39,933 into that. - It's a miracle, 532 00:22:39,933 --> 00:22:43,666 which is why I will do nothing but make fiction until I die. 533 00:22:43,666 --> 00:22:45,166 It's a kind of miracle. 534 00:22:45,166 --> 00:22:48,133 A musician can tell you this, a painter can tell you this. 535 00:22:48,133 --> 00:22:50,933 Once you open up the unconscious, and it's hard to do, 536 00:22:50,933 --> 00:22:52,733 you don't get there every day, you're in some 537 00:22:52,733 --> 00:22:56,500 other world and it makes itself, it just happens. 538 00:22:56,500 --> 00:22:59,866 My ideas come from many sources. 539 00:22:59,866 --> 00:23:02,666 I write an awful lot about ecology and science, 540 00:23:02,666 --> 00:23:05,366 and the new technology, this, Are We Not Men 541 00:23:05,366 --> 00:23:10,333 is about Crispr Cas 9 technology in which we are now able, 542 00:23:10,333 --> 00:23:15,300 quite quickly and easily, to make trans-genic creatures. 543 00:23:15,300 --> 00:23:16,700 Is this a good idea? 544 00:23:16,700 --> 00:23:19,433 Well, I write a story to find out. 545 00:23:19,433 --> 00:23:23,300 Sometimes I would write a story that is autobiographical 546 00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:26,733 in content, very rarely, but once in a while, why not. 547 00:23:26,733 --> 00:23:30,033 So, that, all you have to do is find an incident 548 00:23:30,033 --> 00:23:32,300 and try to see what it means. 549 00:23:32,300 --> 00:23:33,866 - You read a lot of other people's stuff. 550 00:23:33,866 --> 00:23:35,833 You mentioned that you read Cheever, but, of course, 551 00:23:35,833 --> 00:23:39,333 Cheever is another generation, or another era of stuff, 552 00:23:39,333 --> 00:23:40,933 you read a lot of contemporary fiction? 553 00:23:40,933 --> 00:23:43,633 - I do read some contemporary fiction and only when 554 00:23:43,633 --> 00:23:45,266 I'm writing short-stories. 555 00:23:45,266 --> 00:23:47,833 The problem with reading a novel when you're writing a novel 556 00:23:47,833 --> 00:23:50,166 is the voice will creep into your head. 557 00:23:50,166 --> 00:23:51,600 You don't want this. 558 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,266 The hardest thing with a book like this is the middle, 559 00:23:55,266 --> 00:23:59,633 and sustaining the energy, and finding out where it's going. 560 00:23:59,633 --> 00:24:03,033 The voice has to remain consistent and I, 561 00:24:04,233 --> 00:24:05,700 distracted by the voice. 562 00:24:05,700 --> 00:24:08,166 - In some ways, you can't break the lock, right? 563 00:24:08,166 --> 00:24:10,366 It's comparable to this, you have to stay completely 564 00:24:10,366 --> 00:24:11,600 contained and sealed. 565 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,533 - It's like this, I have never written anything 566 00:24:13,533 --> 00:24:15,900 without music playing 'cause it's rhythmic. 567 00:24:15,900 --> 00:24:18,900 Rhythm and reading it aloud is so important to me. 568 00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:22,100 But, the music I'm playing can't have vocals in it 569 00:24:22,100 --> 00:24:24,233 unless they're in a language I don't understand, 570 00:24:24,233 --> 00:24:26,966 like German opera or Italian opera. 571 00:24:26,966 --> 00:24:28,033 - You're a big jazz fan, right? 572 00:24:28,033 --> 00:24:29,400 - A big jazz fan, jazz is fine. 573 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,233 - Coltrane, miles-- - Coltrane, J. S. Bach, 574 00:24:32,233 --> 00:24:34,333 all of this sort, I'm listening to, 575 00:24:34,333 --> 00:24:38,333 but I can't listen to anything with lyrics in English 576 00:24:38,333 --> 00:24:40,466 because it's a distraction. 577 00:24:40,466 --> 00:24:43,066 The same thing obtains for reading another novel when 578 00:24:43,066 --> 00:24:44,466 you're writing a novel. 579 00:24:44,466 --> 00:24:46,233 - Yeah, it'd be like listening to somebody else's 580 00:24:46,233 --> 00:24:47,600 lyrics. - Exactly. 581 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,066 - We have about a minute left. 582 00:24:49,066 --> 00:24:50,733 So you have another novel in the can or coming? 583 00:24:50,733 --> 00:24:54,566 - I do, I'm just starting to do research on it. 584 00:24:54,566 --> 00:24:57,166 I don't wanna tell too much about it, but it's 585 00:24:57,166 --> 00:24:59,433 going to be set in the early 60s. 586 00:24:59,433 --> 00:25:03,133 It has to do with a certain chemical that got widespread 587 00:25:03,133 --> 00:25:06,733 use in that period of the 60s, and I don't wanna 588 00:25:06,733 --> 00:25:09,966 give anything away, so I'll just tell you the initials, LSD. 589 00:25:09,966 --> 00:25:12,100 (audience laughing) 590 00:25:12,100 --> 00:25:13,200 - Well, we only have 30 seconds, 591 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,866 I could guess, but, excellent. 592 00:25:15,866 --> 00:25:18,200 It's a treat to get to see you. 593 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,833 Like I said, I think this book is terrific and if, in fact, 594 00:25:20,833 --> 00:25:23,866 it becomes a television series, I'll be the first to 595 00:25:23,866 --> 00:25:26,433 program my DVR to see it. 596 00:25:26,433 --> 00:25:27,900 - We can only hope, my dear fellow. 597 00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:30,000 - And good luck with the short-story collection, 598 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,233 and that is called? 599 00:25:31,233 --> 00:25:33,500 - It's called the Relive Box after the story 600 00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:34,866 that was in the New Yorker two years ago. 601 00:25:34,866 --> 00:25:36,066 - [Evan] Relive box, and it'll be out soon? 602 00:25:36,066 --> 00:25:38,533 - About a game, gaming, it's about gaming 603 00:25:38,533 --> 00:25:40,033 and what does it mean. 604 00:25:40,033 --> 00:25:41,233 - Very good, well, I wish you continued success with this 605 00:25:41,233 --> 00:25:42,166 and everything else you do. 606 00:25:42,166 --> 00:25:43,266 T. C. Boyle, thank you very much 607 00:25:43,266 --> 00:25:44,100 - Thanks, Evan. 608 00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:45,000 - Great seeing you. 609 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,666 (audience applauding) 610 00:25:46,666 --> 00:25:48,833 we'd love to have you join us in the studio. 611 00:25:48,833 --> 00:25:52,866 Visit our website at KLRU.ORG/OVERHEARD 612 00:25:52,866 --> 00:25:56,233 to find invitations to interviews, Q&As with our audience 613 00:25:56,233 --> 00:26:00,100 and guests, and an archive of past episodes. 614 00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:02,700 - I'm not coming out of a journalistic background so, 615 00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:05,666 I like Tom Wolfe, for instance, who's books I love. 616 00:26:05,666 --> 00:26:09,533 I don't want to reproduce how many spots are on 617 00:26:09,533 --> 00:26:12,733 the dalmatian at the firehouse and how they talk. 618 00:26:12,733 --> 00:26:15,666 I want to have my imagination run free, so I'm using 619 00:26:15,666 --> 00:26:18,400 these real facts to then create an entirely different 620 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,866 set of characters that have nothing to do with them. 621 00:26:20,866 --> 00:26:23,400 - [Narrator] Funding for Overheard with Evan Smith 622 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,366 is provided in part by the Alice Kleberg Reynolds Foundation 623 00:26:27,366 --> 00:26:31,800 and Hillco Partners, a Texas government affairs consultancy 624 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:36,300 and by KLRU's Producer's Circle, ensuring local programming 625 00:26:36,300 --> 00:26:38,466 that reflects the character and interests of the 626 00:26:38,466 --> 00:26:41,300 greater Austin, Texas community. 627 00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:43,966 (dynamic music)