1 00:00:00,633 --> 00:00:02,300 - Okay, sir. 2 00:00:02,300 --> 00:00:03,766 - Thanks so much for being here. 3 00:00:03,766 --> 00:00:06,100 I've been wanting to ask this question for a long time, 4 00:00:06,100 --> 00:00:07,600 and I think you're the person to answer it. 5 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:09,100 - Alright. 6 00:00:09,100 --> 00:00:12,800 - So as reported by The Hill, Wall Street Journal, 7 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,033 Bill Clinton has sent two emails in his whole life. 8 00:00:16,033 --> 00:00:19,866 Hillary Clinton quote does not know how to use a computer 9 00:00:19,866 --> 00:00:21,633 to do email, unquote. 10 00:00:21,633 --> 00:00:24,666 Lindsey Graham has bragged that he has 11 00:00:24,666 --> 00:00:27,466 never sent an email in his life. 12 00:00:27,466 --> 00:00:30,066 This is very unnerving to me. 13 00:00:30,066 --> 00:00:31,500 - [Cara] It should be. 14 00:00:31,500 --> 00:00:34,366 - Especially, a lot of people describe the legislation 15 00:00:34,366 --> 00:00:37,533 around tech as sort of in the Wild West era. 16 00:00:37,533 --> 00:00:39,033 And to me, it sounds like the people that would 17 00:00:39,033 --> 00:00:42,766 be regulating it are regulating cars 18 00:00:42,766 --> 00:00:45,066 and they still use a horse and buggy. 19 00:00:45,066 --> 00:00:46,566 - [Man at Table] Okay. 20 00:00:46,566 --> 00:00:49,133 - So you see real consequences, like you touched on earlier, 21 00:00:49,133 --> 00:00:51,266 like the FBI-Apple debate, where a lot of these guys 22 00:00:51,266 --> 00:00:53,900 were so out of their depth. 23 00:00:53,900 --> 00:00:56,466 I think Lindsey Graham actually came out about a month 24 00:00:56,466 --> 00:00:57,933 and said, "I was wrong." - [Woman] Yes, let me answer. 25 00:00:57,933 --> 00:00:59,200 I think I know your question. 26 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:00,766 - So you want to get to the bottom of this. 27 00:01:00,766 --> 00:01:03,066 - So my question would be, am I being way too cynical? 28 00:01:03,066 --> 00:01:04,500 - [Woman] No. 29 00:01:04,500 --> 00:01:05,966 - And is the only way to change it running for office, 30 00:01:05,966 --> 00:01:07,466 like you're doing? 31 00:01:07,466 --> 00:01:09,533 - Yes, I urge you to run for your Austin city council, 32 00:01:09,533 --> 00:01:10,700 or whatever. 33 00:01:10,700 --> 00:01:12,166 So here's the problem. 34 00:01:12,166 --> 00:01:13,400 Lindsey Graham did say that, and actually I said 35 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,500 something on CNBC about it, like, 36 00:01:15,500 --> 00:01:16,733 "Let's not get invites from someone 37 00:01:16,733 --> 00:01:18,266 "who doesn't know how to turn on a computer." 38 00:01:18,266 --> 00:01:20,866 He was pontificating on the FBI issue. 39 00:01:20,866 --> 00:01:22,133 - [Man at Table] Right. 40 00:01:22,133 --> 00:01:23,400 - And emotionally, it was ridiculous. 41 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:24,633 I was like, you are out of your depth, you need, 42 00:01:24,633 --> 00:01:26,966 it's a very, my whole issue with it was it 43 00:01:26,966 --> 00:01:28,566 was a complicated issue. 44 00:01:28,566 --> 00:01:30,166 And it's very complicated, it's not just 45 00:01:30,166 --> 00:01:32,266 a little complicated, it's quantumly done. 46 00:01:32,266 --> 00:01:33,733 Let's have smart people from government, 47 00:01:33,733 --> 00:01:36,133 and they exist, believe me, in the government space, 48 00:01:36,133 --> 00:01:38,066 and smart people from tech get together and discuss. 49 00:01:38,066 --> 00:01:39,333 It's the same thing. 50 00:01:39,333 --> 00:01:40,866 It's like, why are they talking past each other 51 00:01:40,866 --> 00:01:43,333 in this ridiculous, emotional bull crap, 52 00:01:43,333 --> 00:01:44,633 just essentially? 53 00:01:44,633 --> 00:01:48,566 And so one of the things I think is important is, 54 00:01:48,566 --> 00:01:50,533 there's more and more politicians that do understand 55 00:01:50,533 --> 00:01:52,000 the uses of technology. 56 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:53,066 - Name one, give us a person who we could look to-- 57 00:01:53,066 --> 00:01:54,533 - Jared Polis. 58 00:01:54,533 --> 00:01:55,733 - [Man at Table] Jared Polis, - [Cara] from Colorado. 59 00:01:55,733 --> 00:01:57,600 - [Man] Colorado. - [Cara] There's a lot. 60 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,600 There's not, it's not few, but there's few. 61 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,233 - Darrell Issa from California thinks he knows 62 00:02:01,233 --> 00:02:02,500 everything about technology. 63 00:02:02,500 --> 00:02:03,433 - He does think he knows everything. 64 00:02:03,433 --> 00:02:04,233 I think most of them don't. 65 00:02:04,233 --> 00:02:05,166 Most of them don't. 66 00:02:05,166 --> 00:02:06,100 - You're skeptical of that? 67 00:02:06,100 --> 00:02:07,333 - I'm skeptical of all of them, 68 00:02:07,333 --> 00:02:08,133 because I think the way they talk about it 69 00:02:08,133 --> 00:02:10,333 is kind of ridiculous. 70 00:02:10,333 --> 00:02:11,566 I do think the Obama administration 71 00:02:11,566 --> 00:02:13,733 certainly had, is much more of a tech President 72 00:02:13,733 --> 00:02:14,900 than any other administration. 73 00:02:14,900 --> 00:02:16,100 - Is this not, though, to the question, 74 00:02:16,100 --> 00:02:17,266 and thank you for your question, 75 00:02:17,266 --> 00:02:19,600 is this not a generational affix? 76 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,833 That is to say, when the mulch is overturned, 77 00:02:21,833 --> 00:02:24,066 when the people who are in public office now 78 00:02:24,066 --> 00:02:25,900 move on and we have younger people 79 00:02:25,900 --> 00:02:28,033 come up, automatically they'll be more tech-savvy, 80 00:02:28,033 --> 00:02:29,266 right? 81 00:02:29,266 --> 00:02:30,433 - No, I'm 412 years old and I'm very good 82 00:02:30,433 --> 00:02:31,133 at technology, thank you very much. 83 00:02:31,133 --> 00:02:31,933 It's ridiculous. 84 00:02:31,933 --> 00:02:33,100 It's not an age thing, 85 00:02:33,100 --> 00:02:34,233 it's a question of interest in the future, 86 00:02:34,233 --> 00:02:35,166 you know what I mean? 87 00:02:35,166 --> 00:02:36,566 Anyone of any age could-- 88 00:02:36,566 --> 00:02:37,833 - You don't think Lindsey Graham's successor 89 00:02:37,833 --> 00:02:39,300 will be definition be better able to 90 00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:40,233 answer his question? 91 00:02:40,233 --> 00:02:41,466 - No, because, you know what? 92 00:02:41,466 --> 00:02:42,966 I was just in D.C. and they were at a party 93 00:02:42,966 --> 00:02:44,466 and they think Blackberry is the hottest company. 94 00:02:44,466 --> 00:02:46,133 If you go by Washington D.C, Blackberry should be 95 00:02:46,133 --> 00:02:48,100 the biggest company on the planet, all right? 96 00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:49,400 They all sit there and I'm like, what? 97 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:50,300 - [Man at table] What are you talking about? 98 00:02:50,300 --> 00:02:51,800 - What are you doing? 99 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,900 And so there's reasons they're using Blackberry, 100 00:02:53,900 --> 00:02:55,433 but none of them are good, really. 101 00:02:55,433 --> 00:02:56,733 I mean some of them are, 102 00:02:56,733 --> 00:02:58,033 the security is their big issue, 103 00:02:58,033 --> 00:02:59,533 but still, they love their Blackberries. 104 00:02:59,533 --> 00:03:00,966 So I think one of the issues is, 105 00:03:00,966 --> 00:03:02,666 Hillary Clinton seems to know how to use emails, 106 00:03:02,666 --> 00:03:06,200 obviously, but I agree, there's something gone wrong there 107 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:07,700 in the way the government is set up to deal with 108 00:03:07,700 --> 00:03:09,666 that kind of thing. 109 00:03:09,666 --> 00:03:10,933 And so, you're right. 110 00:03:10,933 --> 00:03:12,166 They don't know how to send emails, 111 00:03:12,166 --> 00:03:14,700 some of them know how to use Twitter, 112 00:03:14,700 --> 00:03:16,100 some of them know how to use Facebook 113 00:03:16,100 --> 00:03:17,300 and things like that, 114 00:03:17,300 --> 00:03:18,833 and they understand the importance. 115 00:03:18,833 --> 00:03:20,266 They're like, let's get a young person to help them. 116 00:03:20,266 --> 00:03:21,600 But if you're a politician in this day and age 117 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,166 and you do not understand digital media, 118 00:03:23,166 --> 00:03:26,400 you really, you should not be making 119 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:27,666 legislation about it. 120 00:03:27,666 --> 00:03:29,566 - Well, especially as it extends to the internet 121 00:03:29,566 --> 00:03:31,200 of things, like you said. 122 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:32,400 - Well that's what's more important. 123 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,100 Let me just make that one single point. 124 00:03:34,100 --> 00:03:36,000 Before it's photo apps, it's social network, 125 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:37,466 it's stuff like that, 126 00:03:37,466 --> 00:03:39,800 the stuff coming down the pike is about food technology, 127 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,200 it's about transportation technology, 128 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,300 it's about finance technology, healthcare technology, 129 00:03:46,300 --> 00:03:48,533 and the government really, you know. 130 00:03:48,533 --> 00:03:50,466 I got in trouble because I said, I think it was 131 00:03:50,466 --> 00:03:52,766 on Meet the Press, they were talking about 132 00:03:52,766 --> 00:03:54,966 the Obama website. 133 00:03:54,966 --> 00:03:56,466 And I said, here's the problem trying to attract 134 00:03:56,466 --> 00:04:00,266 people to Obama care is kids, everyday, use the internet 135 00:04:00,266 --> 00:04:01,466 and it works perfectly. 136 00:04:01,466 --> 00:04:02,800 It never doesn't work. 137 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:03,466 Think about it. 138 00:04:03,466 --> 00:04:04,966 Not very often. 139 00:04:04,966 --> 00:04:06,900 I said, if Tinder can make a million matches a day, 140 00:04:06,900 --> 00:04:08,933 they can get a website going for insurance, 141 00:04:08,933 --> 00:04:10,066 you know what I mean? 142 00:04:10,066 --> 00:04:11,500 And one of these Washington pontificators 143 00:04:11,500 --> 00:04:15,866 was like, are you comparing the Obama website 144 00:04:15,866 --> 00:04:16,800 to Tinder? 145 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:17,966 And I said, no, Tinder works. 146 00:04:17,966 --> 00:04:19,400 - Exactly. 147 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:20,933 - Seriously. 148 00:04:20,933 --> 00:04:21,466 - [Man at table] It's not a very flattering comparison, 149 00:04:21,466 --> 00:04:22,733 right? 150 00:04:22,733 --> 00:04:24,200 - But you know, I was making a bigger point 151 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:25,433 and they just, they really, the more important thing 152 00:04:25,433 --> 00:04:29,666 is the government has to be smart about using 153 00:04:29,666 --> 00:04:31,666 digital technology to help its citizens. 154 00:04:31,666 --> 00:04:34,400 We should be able to vote online, really. 155 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:35,500 - So let's stay with that. 156 00:04:35,500 --> 00:04:36,933 Let's stay with that. 157 00:04:36,933 --> 00:04:38,766 So the President was in Austin for South by Southwest 158 00:04:38,766 --> 00:04:41,366 and one of the things he said was-- 159 00:04:41,366 --> 00:04:42,633 - Mistakes were made. 160 00:04:42,633 --> 00:04:45,566 - Well that we need tech entrepreneurs 161 00:04:45,566 --> 00:04:47,200 to work with government. 162 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,466 But the cultures of those two entities-- 163 00:04:49,466 --> 00:04:50,900 - They do, they fight all the time. 164 00:04:50,900 --> 00:04:52,700 - You know, government is slow and bloated 165 00:04:52,700 --> 00:04:53,900 and risk averse. 166 00:04:53,900 --> 00:04:55,400 - Well, that's a plus. 167 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,066 - And tech is fail fast and sleek and streamlined. 168 00:04:58,066 --> 00:04:59,733 How to you bring tech and government together 169 00:04:59,733 --> 00:05:01,333 and not have a big bump? 170 00:05:01,333 --> 00:05:05,266 - What is nonsensible about the fact if you are someone, 171 00:05:05,266 --> 00:05:07,833 if you're a single mother who needs to get assistance, 172 00:05:07,833 --> 00:05:09,866 do you actually need to go down to an office, 173 00:05:09,866 --> 00:05:11,100 waste-- 174 00:05:11,100 --> 00:05:12,333 - [Man at table] No, I'm with you. 175 00:05:12,333 --> 00:05:13,600 - Why isn't there an app for that? 176 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,833 - Is government situated to be more tech forward? 177 00:05:15,833 --> 00:05:16,366 - Why not? 178 00:05:16,366 --> 00:05:17,166 Why? 179 00:05:17,166 --> 00:05:18,100 That's ridiculous. 180 00:05:18,100 --> 00:05:19,533 They can use a telephone. 181 00:05:19,533 --> 00:05:20,066 - The culture of government, for years and years-- 182 00:05:20,066 --> 00:05:20,733 - Why? 183 00:05:20,733 --> 00:05:21,266 They're stupid? 184 00:05:21,266 --> 00:05:21,800 - Yes. 185 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:22,466 - Why? 186 00:05:22,466 --> 00:05:23,133 No they're not. 187 00:05:23,133 --> 00:05:24,633 They're not. 188 00:05:24,633 --> 00:05:25,566 We abrogate as citizens, if we're allowed to say that. 189 00:05:25,566 --> 00:05:26,866 Like, okay, you can be stupid. 190 00:05:26,866 --> 00:05:28,133 - Well, I don't think we should let them, 191 00:05:28,133 --> 00:05:29,833 but I think it's a hard fit together. 192 00:05:29,833 --> 00:05:30,833 - Why? 193 00:05:30,833 --> 00:05:31,500 Why can't, 194 00:05:31,500 --> 00:05:34,133 we accept that. 195 00:05:34,133 --> 00:05:35,600 It's not true. 196 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:36,833 - [Man at table] You think I'm letting them off the hook? 197 00:05:36,833 --> 00:05:37,766 - You're letting them off the hook. 198 00:05:37,766 --> 00:05:39,166 They have done better with DMV. 199 00:05:39,166 --> 00:05:40,666 Now you can make an appointment online. 200 00:05:40,666 --> 00:05:41,866 Crazy. 201 00:05:41,866 --> 00:05:42,800 - Well, the fact that here in Austin 202 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:43,666 we pay taxes online, right? 203 00:05:43,666 --> 00:05:44,900 - You pay taxes on this. 204 00:05:44,900 --> 00:05:46,166 All the wasted energy that we put into stuff, 205 00:05:46,166 --> 00:05:48,066 we have to demand it of our government to have, 206 00:05:48,066 --> 00:05:50,300 you know, Bloomberg administration did a lot. 207 00:05:50,300 --> 00:05:52,400 A lot of stuff online, a lot of information online. 208 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:53,566 a lot of information online. 209 00:05:53,566 --> 00:05:55,033 - So you think if we're not voting online 210 00:05:55,033 --> 00:05:56,533 or registering to vote online, it's not because we can't. 211 00:05:56,533 --> 00:05:57,733 It's because the people in charge don't want us to. 212 00:05:57,733 --> 00:05:58,966 This is the President's point. 213 00:05:58,966 --> 00:06:00,466 - I think they're not thinking of it. 214 00:06:00,466 --> 00:06:01,700 I think they're not thinking of it strongly enough. 215 00:06:01,700 --> 00:06:02,900 And it doesn't , it's like when we talk about 216 00:06:02,900 --> 00:06:05,833 when media companies had a separate, 217 00:06:05,833 --> 00:06:07,033 I was talking about it with someone else, 218 00:06:07,033 --> 00:06:08,200 had a separate Chief Digital Officer? 219 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:09,400 Do you remember? 220 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:10,933 Whenever they have that, I'm always worried. 221 00:06:10,933 --> 00:06:13,733 I'm like, digital is important to every aspect of any media. 222 00:06:13,733 --> 00:06:14,900 - [Man at table] It's not a modifier. 223 00:06:14,900 --> 00:06:15,833 - So there shouldn't be a separate 224 00:06:15,833 --> 00:06:16,933 digital chief of anything. 225 00:06:16,933 --> 00:06:18,166 - Sir? 226 00:06:18,166 --> 00:06:21,366 - Uh, thank you for your time, Cara. 227 00:06:21,366 --> 00:06:26,300 I was really pleased to hear you state that 228 00:06:26,300 --> 00:06:29,700 the FBI and the government in general 229 00:06:29,700 --> 00:06:32,200 do probably have the ability to-- 230 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:33,500 - [Cara] Oh, they do, 100%. 231 00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:36,000 - To decrypt these phones. 232 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:41,000 And it seemed very clear to me that the real issue is 233 00:06:42,133 --> 00:06:43,866 not can they get access to this phone 234 00:06:43,866 --> 00:06:48,200 but how inexpensive that access is. 235 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:53,200 And personally I feel very concerned if that access 236 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:55,800 is inexpensive. 237 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:57,300 - [Man at table] So the question is? 238 00:06:57,300 --> 00:07:01,733 - And so my question is, is that really the issue? 239 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:10,000 That this boundary can really be expressed 240 00:07:11,166 --> 00:07:14,100 in terms of cost and that we want it to be 241 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:17,400 relatively expensive for the government to get access 242 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,233 to this information so that-- 243 00:07:19,233 --> 00:07:20,566 - I don't know if expense is the issue. 244 00:07:20,566 --> 00:07:23,033 This goes back to our very beginnings. 245 00:07:23,033 --> 00:07:24,900 It's what kind of access do we want the government 246 00:07:24,900 --> 00:07:27,000 to have to our private information 247 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,166 and how should they get it 248 00:07:28,166 --> 00:07:29,400 and how should they go through it. 249 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,333 We don't live in a fascist environment. 250 00:07:31,333 --> 00:07:32,800 We live in a democracy, allegedly, 251 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,000 and so, therefore, they have to use legal means 252 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:37,866 and proper means to get to it. 253 00:07:37,866 --> 00:07:39,866 And it's too bad, 'cause that's they way we're doing it here 254 00:07:39,866 --> 00:07:41,700 and that's why our country's been great. 255 00:07:41,700 --> 00:07:44,533 And so the issue is, you know, listen to me, 256 00:07:44,533 --> 00:07:47,333 this is not an easy business decision for Tim Cook to make. 257 00:07:47,333 --> 00:07:48,833 Let's just be clear. 258 00:07:48,833 --> 00:07:51,400 It is not helpful for them to not give the government-- 259 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:52,600 - Is he losing and business, though, 260 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:53,766 by standing on principle? 261 00:07:53,766 --> 00:07:55,233 - You know, he's making a very good point 262 00:07:55,233 --> 00:07:59,766 is that there's repercussions beyond this one incursion. 263 00:07:59,766 --> 00:08:00,766 - Right, but couldn't you make the argument 264 00:08:00,766 --> 00:08:02,000 that by standing on principle, 265 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:02,966 more people are going yeah, Apple. 266 00:08:02,966 --> 00:08:04,466 - Yes, they have. 267 00:08:04,466 --> 00:08:06,200 But first the stuff was, the minute we have a terrorism 268 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,166 thing, they scare the shit out of, 269 00:08:08,166 --> 00:08:09,566 they love to scare the shit out of us. 270 00:08:09,566 --> 00:08:14,566 And there's dangerous people in this world 271 00:08:15,166 --> 00:08:16,633 It's Trumping. 272 00:08:16,633 --> 00:08:17,866 It's reductive. 273 00:08:17,866 --> 00:08:19,566 They're immigrants, we need to build a wall 274 00:08:19,566 --> 00:08:22,766 for the immigrants to keep America. 275 00:08:22,766 --> 00:08:24,533 Nobody wants the complex reason, 276 00:08:24,533 --> 00:08:26,600 we invaded Afghanistan, we invaded Iraq, 277 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,233 we did this, we don't have enough good intelligence. 278 00:08:29,233 --> 00:08:30,700 It's so complicated, the best thing to say 279 00:08:30,700 --> 00:08:33,800 is that iPhone is the reason we have Isis. 280 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:35,533 Oh, well then, let's open it. 281 00:08:35,533 --> 00:08:38,233 That's their thing. 282 00:08:38,233 --> 00:08:39,500 - But isn't what the government said, 283 00:08:39,500 --> 00:08:40,966 there's no way to win an argument on this, 284 00:08:40,966 --> 00:08:42,200 and I don't want to wage one, 285 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:43,433 but isn't what the government not said, 286 00:08:43,433 --> 00:08:45,033 the reason that we have Isis is the iPhone, 287 00:08:45,033 --> 00:08:47,133 but the way for us to get to Isis-- 288 00:08:47,133 --> 00:08:48,266 - One of the ways. 289 00:08:48,266 --> 00:08:49,600 - And maybe to prevent future attacks 290 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:50,833 is through this iPhone? 291 00:08:50,833 --> 00:08:52,066 - One of the ways. 292 00:08:52,066 --> 00:08:53,400 But you know, Isis was using text. 293 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,066 They use open things. 294 00:08:55,066 --> 00:08:57,800 And by the way, the minute you open this 295 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:58,966 ten other things pop up. 296 00:08:58,966 --> 00:08:59,766 - [Man at table] Well it is definitely 297 00:08:59,766 --> 00:09:00,766 a slippery slope, right? 298 00:09:00,766 --> 00:09:02,000 - Ten other, but guess what, 299 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,400 there's gonna be 90 other amorphous things 300 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,400 that pop up where information goes, 301 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,033 believe me, they have lots of tools. 302 00:09:08,033 --> 00:09:09,566 - As long as I can hack into my daughter's SnapChat 303 00:09:09,566 --> 00:09:10,633 at some point, I'll be fine. 304 00:09:10,633 --> 00:09:12,700 - No you can't. 305 00:09:12,700 --> 00:09:14,066 It's ephemeral. 306 00:09:14,066 --> 00:09:16,633 It's an ephemeral messaging system, allegedly. 307 00:09:16,633 --> 00:09:17,166 No, it is. 308 00:09:17,166 --> 00:09:18,400 - Sir? 309 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:19,633 - Good afternoon. 310 00:09:19,633 --> 00:09:20,933 One of the things we didn't talk about today 311 00:09:20,933 --> 00:09:22,233 that I've enjoyed your commentary on 312 00:09:22,233 --> 00:09:24,800 is gender disparity in American business. 313 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:26,200 Not enough women in charge in the boards 314 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:27,433 and executive levels. 315 00:09:27,433 --> 00:09:29,233 But about two years ago Kevin O'Leary, 316 00:09:29,233 --> 00:09:31,466 the guy from Shark Tank, made some great comments, 317 00:09:31,466 --> 00:09:32,866 and I hope you know the context because you can 318 00:09:32,866 --> 00:09:34,733 probably explain it way better than I could, 319 00:09:34,733 --> 00:09:37,200 made some great comments, but its been two years from that 320 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,333 and I'm wondering if I just missed something 321 00:09:39,333 --> 00:09:43,466 on the top levels of investors about any progress 322 00:09:43,466 --> 00:09:44,733 about getting more women in charge? 323 00:09:44,733 --> 00:09:45,800 - Yeah, where are we on this issue? 324 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:46,666 Apparently not good. 325 00:09:46,666 --> 00:09:47,900 - It's worse. 326 00:09:47,900 --> 00:09:49,833 If you notice, a lot of the new tech companies 327 00:09:49,833 --> 00:09:52,600 are putting out their gender and race reports, 328 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,833 their diversity reports, essentially. 329 00:09:54,833 --> 00:09:56,933 And it's 70% white guys. 330 00:09:56,933 --> 00:09:58,300 70% white guys. 331 00:09:58,300 --> 00:09:59,633 Every one of them. 332 00:09:59,633 --> 00:10:00,433 - [Man at table] Has it really changed? 333 00:10:00,433 --> 00:10:01,633 - It's gotten worse. 334 00:10:01,633 --> 00:10:03,366 Actually, there were more graduates of women 335 00:10:03,366 --> 00:10:07,500 at MIT and other organizations 20 years ago. 336 00:10:07,500 --> 00:10:08,600 And now there's much fewer. 337 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:09,566 And there's all kinds of issue. 338 00:10:09,566 --> 00:10:10,800 - Why, why , why has the-- 339 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:12,966 - Well, it's another complicated issue. 340 00:10:12,966 --> 00:10:16,166 The way we teach math, the way we treat women, 341 00:10:16,166 --> 00:10:20,333 the way we talk about excellence in math and science 342 00:10:20,333 --> 00:10:23,533 and the way we tell girls, there's something that happens 343 00:10:23,533 --> 00:10:24,933 with young girls where they suddenly, 344 00:10:24,933 --> 00:10:27,433 it's not cool to be smart. 345 00:10:27,433 --> 00:10:28,733 That's a societal issue. 346 00:10:28,733 --> 00:10:30,566 Then there's the way, like Maria Klawe 347 00:10:30,566 --> 00:10:33,666 from Harvey Mudd College, she's really fascinating. 348 00:10:33,666 --> 00:10:35,100 We had her on stage. 349 00:10:35,100 --> 00:10:38,433 They're doing a different kind of education. 350 00:10:38,433 --> 00:10:39,933 It's really interesting. 351 00:10:39,933 --> 00:10:41,900 There's always one guy, one, it's always a white guy, 352 00:10:41,900 --> 00:10:46,900 one guy, there's always a guy in computer programming 353 00:10:48,133 --> 00:10:49,100 that messes it up for everyone else, 354 00:10:49,100 --> 00:10:50,066 who's so arrogant and insulting 355 00:10:50,066 --> 00:10:51,533 that nobody wants to be in it. 356 00:10:51,533 --> 00:10:53,766 So instead of just trying to solve the system, 357 00:10:53,766 --> 00:10:54,866 she's focused on that guy. 358 00:10:54,866 --> 00:10:56,466 Like why are you doing this? 359 00:10:56,466 --> 00:10:57,833 Let's change your attitude. 360 00:10:57,833 --> 00:10:59,166 Everyone's gotta be part of it. 361 00:10:59,166 --> 00:11:00,300 It can't just be a woman thing 362 00:11:00,300 --> 00:11:01,233 or a man thing. 363 00:11:01,233 --> 00:11:02,466 It's gotta be a both thing. 364 00:11:02,466 --> 00:11:03,700 - By the way, the media business is no better 365 00:11:03,700 --> 00:11:04,666 than the tech business as this goes, right? 366 00:11:04,666 --> 00:11:05,466 - No. 367 00:11:05,466 --> 00:11:06,700 Well, a little better. 368 00:11:06,700 --> 00:11:07,900 - Well, you look at the big newspapers 369 00:11:07,900 --> 00:11:08,833 around this country, and how many newspapers 370 00:11:08,833 --> 00:11:10,000 can you name run by women? 371 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:10,800 - A lot of women have lost their jobs. 372 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:11,466 Well, there were. 373 00:11:11,466 --> 00:11:12,966 There were. 374 00:11:12,966 --> 00:11:13,900 - You know, here in Texas we have Austin and Houston, 375 00:11:13,900 --> 00:11:16,166 both run by women editors. 376 00:11:16,166 --> 00:11:17,400 - It changes, yeah. 377 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:18,833 - But I look around at the New York Times, 378 00:11:18,833 --> 00:11:20,066 Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, LA Times, 379 00:11:20,066 --> 00:11:22,533 Chicago Tribune, this is my point. 380 00:11:22,533 --> 00:11:24,300 I mean, my question is why are we, 381 00:11:24,300 --> 00:11:25,533 we're no better-- 382 00:11:25,533 --> 00:11:26,933 - It doesn't mean we can't criticize-- 383 00:11:26,933 --> 00:11:27,866 - [Man at table] No, we shouldn't criticize them, right. 384 00:11:27,866 --> 00:11:29,133 - I mean, here's why. 385 00:11:29,133 --> 00:11:30,433 Because tech is supposed to be our most tolerant 386 00:11:30,433 --> 00:11:32,800 and innovative and interesting group 387 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:33,966 in this country. 388 00:11:33,966 --> 00:11:35,733 And it is a very tolerant environment, 389 00:11:35,733 --> 00:11:38,000 and they still don't, it still doesn't happen. 390 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:39,500 And one of the things they tend to do, 391 00:11:39,500 --> 00:11:41,933 and I hate, I know there's scientific evidence of this 392 00:11:41,933 --> 00:11:43,866 and I get the point for the science part, 393 00:11:43,866 --> 00:11:45,466 but unconscious bias. 394 00:11:45,466 --> 00:11:48,133 That's the word they use that gets themselves off the hook. 395 00:11:48,133 --> 00:11:49,833 Oh, I didn't know that there were 10 white guys 396 00:11:49,833 --> 00:11:51,100 on this board. 397 00:11:51,100 --> 00:11:52,400 What, you didn't pick your head up 398 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:53,900 and look and notice all the white guys? 399 00:11:53,900 --> 00:11:55,100 - Do you think Marissa Mayer has been treated fairly 400 00:11:55,100 --> 00:11:55,933 or are the problems she's having-- 401 00:11:55,933 --> 00:11:56,766 - Oh, don't ask me. 402 00:11:56,766 --> 00:11:58,166 - No, I'm gonna ask you. 403 00:11:58,166 --> 00:11:59,466 Or are the problems she's having at Yahoo 404 00:11:59,466 --> 00:12:00,733 problems of her own making? 405 00:12:00,733 --> 00:12:01,833 - Yes. 406 00:12:01,833 --> 00:12:03,066 - [Man at table] Both? 407 00:12:03,066 --> 00:12:03,833 - I think in that case we have to, 408 00:12:03,833 --> 00:12:05,100 yes. 409 00:12:05,100 --> 00:12:06,366 - Both yes, she's been treated unfairly and-- 410 00:12:06,366 --> 00:12:07,866 - I think she has not been treated unfairly. 411 00:12:07,866 --> 00:12:08,700 I think she's not running that company very well. 412 00:12:08,700 --> 00:12:09,933 That's it. 413 00:12:09,933 --> 00:12:10,600 You know, and she's gotta be judged-- 414 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:11,266 - Full stop. 415 00:12:11,266 --> 00:12:12,066 - Full stop. 416 00:12:12,066 --> 00:12:12,933 It's not a gender issue. 417 00:12:12,933 --> 00:12:14,600 Everyone was behind her. 418 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:15,666 She had everybody behind her. 419 00:12:15,666 --> 00:12:17,133 That's a nonissue. 420 00:12:17,133 --> 00:12:21,633 But in any case, this idea of unconscious bias. 421 00:12:21,633 --> 00:12:22,766 It's ridiculous. 422 00:12:22,766 --> 00:12:24,033 It's laziness. 423 00:12:24,033 --> 00:12:25,133 It's pure laziness not to look up and notice 424 00:12:25,133 --> 00:12:26,533 that everybody is like you. 425 00:12:26,533 --> 00:12:28,766 And by the way, there's so much data 426 00:12:28,766 --> 00:12:30,966 and business data that shows a diverse company 427 00:12:30,966 --> 00:12:33,500 is a better company, it is a more profitable company. 428 00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:35,466 You shouldn't have to make that argument-- 429 00:12:35,466 --> 00:12:36,400 - [Man at table] But the argument exists. 430 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:37,633 - They want you to make that. 431 00:12:37,633 --> 00:12:39,966 Let's not make a do the right thing argument, 432 00:12:39,966 --> 00:12:41,200 I'm like, why not? 433 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:42,666 Why not make them do the right thing argument? 434 00:12:42,666 --> 00:12:45,366 Because it is better to have a diverse environment. 435 00:12:45,366 --> 00:12:47,533 You can't have great ideas if you have 436 00:12:47,533 --> 00:12:49,333 the same group of people. 437 00:12:49,333 --> 00:12:51,233 And you can't just pattern match 438 00:12:51,233 --> 00:12:54,433 the Mark Zuckerberg's of the world. 439 00:12:54,433 --> 00:12:57,100 One person was telling me, and it's a very common thing, 440 00:12:57,100 --> 00:12:59,466 it's like, well Cara, if we had a Marsha Zuckerberg 441 00:12:59,466 --> 00:13:01,033 instead of a Mark. 442 00:13:01,033 --> 00:13:04,033 First of all, Mark wouldn't make a great looking lady, 443 00:13:04,033 --> 00:13:06,400 but that's fine, but that's ridiculous. 444 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,733 There's so many women at so many levels 445 00:13:08,733 --> 00:13:11,666 that we celebrate these single founders when, 446 00:13:11,666 --> 00:13:13,400 you know what, Facebook has a lot to do 447 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:14,900 with Sheryl Sandberg. 448 00:13:14,900 --> 00:13:16,900 It has a lot to do with tons of women executives there. 449 00:13:16,900 --> 00:13:18,300 Same thing with Google. 450 00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:19,500 There's all these amazing women executives, 451 00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:22,233 but we just celebrate the two at the top 452 00:13:22,233 --> 00:13:23,866 instead of everybody there. 453 00:13:23,866 --> 00:13:26,600 We like to do that because that's, we're reductive that way. 454 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:27,766 But it hasn't changed. 455 00:13:27,766 --> 00:13:28,533 - [Man in hat] Thank you. 456 00:13:28,533 --> 00:13:29,333 - Sir? 457 00:13:29,333 --> 00:13:32,433 - It hasn't changed. 458 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,033 - First, I wanted to say that I frequently watch 459 00:13:36,033 --> 00:13:39,366 for you and Walt on the, here it's 10 a.m., 460 00:13:39,366 --> 00:13:42,966 11 a.m. slot on CNBC, so please keep doing that. 461 00:13:42,966 --> 00:13:44,533 - Okay, we like that. 462 00:13:44,533 --> 00:13:45,700 - I really appreciate it. 463 00:13:45,700 --> 00:13:47,066 And I also appreciate your story about 464 00:13:47,066 --> 00:13:48,433 downloading a book and basically breaking the internet 465 00:13:48,433 --> 00:13:49,366 at that location. 466 00:13:49,366 --> 00:13:51,000 I was at Purdue when they were, 467 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,266 I was on DARPA net, 468 00:13:52,266 --> 00:13:54,366 I was working at Los Alamos National lab 469 00:13:54,366 --> 00:13:56,166 and I was dating somebody there 470 00:13:56,166 --> 00:13:59,933 and so I was doing the what would now be texting 471 00:13:59,933 --> 00:14:02,833 with telnet, so it reminded me of all those days 472 00:14:02,833 --> 00:14:04,433 and it was fun to hear. 473 00:14:04,433 --> 00:14:05,833 - Let's take your question. 474 00:14:05,833 --> 00:14:08,366 - So my question is predicting between one year 475 00:14:08,366 --> 00:14:12,933 and two years from now, stories will come out that 476 00:14:12,933 --> 00:14:15,233 oh, wow, this encryption thing is a lot more difficult 477 00:14:15,233 --> 00:14:18,066 than we though and the opposite of what people 478 00:14:18,066 --> 00:14:20,933 seem to be saying is true and that is 479 00:14:20,933 --> 00:14:23,200 it's really easy to do strong encryption 480 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:24,766 that can't be broken. 481 00:14:24,766 --> 00:14:27,633 I think it's much easier than is being implied. 482 00:14:27,633 --> 00:14:29,133 - [Man at table] What's your sense of that? 483 00:14:29,133 --> 00:14:30,733 - In less than a year from now or about a year from now 484 00:14:30,733 --> 00:14:32,333 it's gonna be, wow, everybody has this encryption 485 00:14:32,333 --> 00:14:34,166 that's so good and there's apps that you can download 486 00:14:34,166 --> 00:14:36,366 that make it impossible to crack even a super computer. 487 00:14:36,366 --> 00:14:37,566 - Yes, that's what I'm saying. 488 00:14:37,566 --> 00:14:42,233 They keep saying let's get this one. 489 00:14:43,433 --> 00:14:44,366 I'm like, criminals are gonna get guns. 490 00:14:44,366 --> 00:14:45,633 They're just gonna get guns. 491 00:14:45,633 --> 00:14:47,066 And so are people with bad intents. 492 00:14:47,066 --> 00:14:48,300 They're gonna find ways to. 493 00:14:48,300 --> 00:14:49,933 By the way, they use other technologies 494 00:14:49,933 --> 00:14:50,900 that's not encrypted. 495 00:14:50,900 --> 00:14:52,133 They just do. 496 00:14:52,133 --> 00:14:54,633 They're not all computer geniuses, 497 00:14:54,633 --> 00:14:56,900 like you're in a Bond movie of something like that. 498 00:14:56,900 --> 00:14:59,333 I think it goes to the heart of other issues around 499 00:14:59,333 --> 00:15:02,066 inequality, about religious issues. 500 00:15:02,066 --> 00:15:04,200 It's so complicated and we prefer to focus 501 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,133 on one single thing because it's easy. 502 00:15:07,133 --> 00:15:09,400 And you get crying families, believe me, 503 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,100 everyone has sympathy for these families, 504 00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:13,900 but at the same time you also should have sympathy 505 00:15:13,900 --> 00:15:18,900 for rights of privacy which is critical to this country. 506 00:15:20,333 --> 00:15:21,233 - [Man in audience] It seems like it's a kennard to pretend 507 00:15:21,233 --> 00:15:22,633 like that's the reason-- 508 00:15:22,633 --> 00:15:24,133 - But you know what, the government always has done this. 509 00:15:24,133 --> 00:15:25,533 They always overreach. 510 00:15:25,533 --> 00:15:26,766 There's never been a moment where the government 511 00:15:26,766 --> 00:15:28,633 doesn't overreach in our history. 512 00:15:28,633 --> 00:15:30,933 They just do it, and that's why we're here. 513 00:15:30,933 --> 00:15:32,633 And then we push them back 514 00:15:32,633 --> 00:15:35,633 and then they overreach, it's just so common. 515 00:15:35,633 --> 00:15:37,400 And we act like it's different, but it's not. 516 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:38,600 - We have time for one more question. 517 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:39,766 I want to be sure we get this gentleman here 518 00:15:39,766 --> 00:15:40,966 before we go. 519 00:15:40,966 --> 00:15:41,633 Thank you for your good question. 520 00:15:41,633 --> 00:15:43,133 Yes, sir? 521 00:15:43,133 --> 00:15:46,400 - My question has to do with the Calvin and Hobbes moment. 522 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,033 In the last six months or year, have you had 523 00:15:49,033 --> 00:15:50,700 a moment similar to that? 524 00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:52,133 - A VR. 525 00:15:52,133 --> 00:15:53,833 I think some of the VR stuff is really fascinating. 526 00:15:53,833 --> 00:15:55,533 I'm really riveted by it. 527 00:15:55,533 --> 00:15:57,033 I thought, at first-- 528 00:15:57,033 --> 00:15:59,466 - So you have seen so much and kind of have a critical eye 529 00:15:59,466 --> 00:16:00,466 to everything-- 530 00:16:00,466 --> 00:16:01,233 - Two things, two things. 531 00:16:01,233 --> 00:16:02,033 Censors. 532 00:16:02,033 --> 00:16:03,500 Censors everywhere. 533 00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:05,533 There's going to be a day where we're going to have censors 534 00:16:05,533 --> 00:16:06,833 that are gonna be like grains of sand 535 00:16:06,833 --> 00:16:10,200 and we're gonna send them out. 536 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:11,433 - For geo locating purposes? 537 00:16:11,433 --> 00:16:12,366 - Everything, for everything. 538 00:16:12,366 --> 00:16:13,833 Sensors will be on everything. 539 00:16:13,833 --> 00:16:16,733 Like, it will know pollution, it'll know things that we 540 00:16:16,733 --> 00:16:18,500 shouldn't be getting, cancer causing agents. 541 00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:20,866 Like, that's the kind of stuff that's really fantastic. 542 00:16:20,866 --> 00:16:23,333 The second thing is, I've talked about this a million times, 543 00:16:23,333 --> 00:16:24,566 I love my Amazon Echo. 544 00:16:24,566 --> 00:16:27,600 I think it's the first iteration of voice-based 545 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,600 command systems that are really effective. 546 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,600 Now, people at Google and Apple are real snooty. 547 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:34,833 They're like, we have better technology. 548 00:16:34,833 --> 00:16:36,300 I said, well, they have the product that works 549 00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:37,566 in the environment. 550 00:16:37,566 --> 00:16:38,466 So if you want to try something that's cool, 551 00:16:38,466 --> 00:16:39,966 try the Amazon Echo. 552 00:16:39,966 --> 00:16:41,466 It's the first time where I start talking to a device 553 00:16:41,466 --> 00:16:44,633 and it responds in a way that I can see the future. 554 00:16:44,633 --> 00:16:45,633 - It's your other good relationship besides 555 00:16:45,633 --> 00:16:46,866 your phone, right? 556 00:16:46,866 --> 00:16:48,200 - Yes, Barbara and the Amazon Echo. 557 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:49,700 You can't change the Amazon Echo's name. 558 00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:52,133 You either have to call it Alexa, Echo, or Amazon. 559 00:16:52,133 --> 00:16:55,233 And I wrote Jeff Bazos, I'm like, can I call it Phyllis? 560 00:16:55,233 --> 00:16:56,200 Why can't I call it Phyllis? 561 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:57,633 But that's another one. 562 00:16:57,633 --> 00:16:59,100 And then the third one is VR. 563 00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:01,900 I think some of the VR stuff is going to be 564 00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:06,400 astonishing around learning, obviously porn, clearly, 565 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,333 but entertainment, travel, it's just really starting 566 00:17:10,333 --> 00:17:12,900 to get really freakishly fantastic. 567 00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:15,466 Like when you put it on and you're like, whoa, 568 00:17:15,466 --> 00:17:16,933 this is, it's really fun. 569 00:17:16,933 --> 00:17:19,300 The issue is content creation. 570 00:17:19,300 --> 00:17:21,200 I don't think people know how to create content. 571 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:22,700 It's a different kind of content creation. 572 00:17:22,700 --> 00:17:23,866 That'll be the-- 573 00:17:23,866 --> 00:17:24,533 - [Man at table] That's the next thing. 574 00:17:24,533 --> 00:17:25,333 - But I love VR. 575 00:17:25,333 --> 00:17:26,400 I think it's great. 576 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:27,700 - Give Cara Swisher a big hand. 577 00:17:27,700 --> 00:17:29,400 Great to have her here. 578 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:30,200 Thank you all. 579 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:31,133 Great to have you here. 580 00:17:31,133 --> 00:17:32,666 We'll see you again, take care.