1 00:00:01,500 --> 00:00:03,100 - [Voiceover] Funding for Overheard with Evan Smith 2 00:00:03,100 --> 00:00:04,500 is provided in part by 3 00:00:04,500 --> 00:00:06,900 the Alice Kleberg Reynolds Foundation 4 00:00:06,900 --> 00:00:08,933 and Hillco Partners, 5 00:00:08,933 --> 00:00:11,366 a Texas government affairs consultancy. 6 00:00:11,366 --> 00:00:14,333 And by KLRU's Producers circle, 7 00:00:14,333 --> 00:00:16,033 ensuring local programming 8 00:00:16,033 --> 00:00:17,766 that reflects the character and interests 9 00:00:17,766 --> 00:00:21,233 of the greater Austin, Texas community. 10 00:00:21,233 --> 00:00:22,066 - I'm Evan Smith. 11 00:00:22,066 --> 00:00:23,433 He's the breakout star 12 00:00:23,433 --> 00:00:26,000 of the political journalism class of 2016. 13 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,900 A reporter for the Washington Post, 14 00:00:27,900 --> 00:00:29,833 whose dogged coverage of Donald Trump 15 00:00:29,833 --> 00:00:31,600 won him praise from his peers 16 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,166 and legions of fans 17 00:00:33,166 --> 00:00:35,500 and just maybe a Pulitzer. 18 00:00:35,500 --> 00:00:36,866 He is David Fahrenthold. 19 00:00:36,866 --> 00:00:38,366 This is Overheard. 20 00:00:39,300 --> 00:00:40,566 Let's be honest. 21 00:00:40,566 --> 00:00:42,333 Is this about the ability to learn 22 00:00:42,333 --> 00:00:43,700 or is this about the experience 23 00:00:43,700 --> 00:00:45,433 of not having been taught properly? 24 00:00:45,433 --> 00:00:47,466 How have you avoided what has befallen 25 00:00:47,466 --> 00:00:49,200 other nations in Africa 26 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:50,466 One could say that he made his own bed, 27 00:00:50,466 --> 00:00:52,300 but you caused him to sleep in it. 28 00:00:52,300 --> 00:00:56,000 You saw a problem and over time took it on. 29 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,166 Let's start with the sizzle 30 00:00:57,166 --> 00:00:59,033 before we get to the steak. 31 00:00:59,033 --> 00:01:00,366 Are you gonna run for President? 32 00:01:00,366 --> 00:01:02,766 I think I just got an F from you actually. 33 00:01:02,766 --> 00:01:03,866 This is over. 34 00:01:07,633 --> 00:01:08,866 - David Fahrenthold welcome. 35 00:01:08,866 --> 00:01:09,700 - Great to be here 36 00:01:09,700 --> 00:01:12,200 - So a reporter in 2016, 37 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,666 who people like and admire - (laughs) 38 00:01:14,666 --> 00:01:15,766 - You're like half unicorn, 39 00:01:15,766 --> 00:01:17,466 half Bigfoot. - It won't last. 40 00:01:17,466 --> 00:01:19,033 - No it couldn't possibly be. 41 00:01:19,033 --> 00:01:21,466 We're not in a business that people like 42 00:01:21,466 --> 00:01:23,566 or admire very much these days. 43 00:01:23,566 --> 00:01:26,266 We're kind of between child molesters 44 00:01:26,266 --> 00:01:28,966 and IRS investigators, right? 45 00:01:28,966 --> 00:01:30,966 The journalism business has seen better times. 46 00:01:30,966 --> 00:01:32,133 - Right worse than Congress actually 47 00:01:32,133 --> 00:01:32,966 - Right. 48 00:01:32,966 --> 00:01:33,800 What happened? 49 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:35,033 How did we get here? 50 00:01:35,033 --> 00:01:36,066 - How did we get to such a low ebb? 51 00:01:36,066 --> 00:01:37,300 - What did we do wrong? 52 00:01:37,300 --> 00:01:38,866 I thought we were doing the people's work? 53 00:01:38,866 --> 00:01:40,800 - Well there's a lot of us in the business right. 54 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:41,633 Some of us do it well. 55 00:01:41,633 --> 00:01:42,600 Some of us do it poorly. 56 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:43,433 But mostly we're a good foil 57 00:01:43,433 --> 00:01:44,400 for everybody right? 58 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,266 Politicians on both sides see us 59 00:01:46,266 --> 00:01:48,033 as when things aren't going their way 60 00:01:48,033 --> 00:01:49,933 they find it's a convenient way to blame us. 61 00:01:49,933 --> 00:01:50,900 - Right 62 00:01:50,900 --> 00:01:51,900 But the public believes them. 63 00:01:51,900 --> 00:01:53,533 They can blame us all they want 64 00:01:53,533 --> 00:01:56,000 but the public actually seems receptive to this idea. 65 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,666 - Right and also when people read the news 66 00:01:58,666 --> 00:01:59,933 or watch the news the part 67 00:01:59,933 --> 00:02:01,800 that they agree with the regard as just right. 68 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,000 How hard was it to find what was true? 69 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,200 When they don't agree with something 70 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:06,366 then they blame you. - They blame us 71 00:02:06,366 --> 00:02:08,333 The facts are the facts. 72 00:02:08,333 --> 00:02:10,366 - Right if they disagree with the facts they blame us. 73 00:02:10,366 --> 00:02:13,633 - Does it make you less apt to do the work you do? 74 00:02:13,633 --> 00:02:15,466 - No no not at all. 75 00:02:15,466 --> 00:02:17,466 In fact I have to say I'm kind 76 00:02:17,466 --> 00:02:18,433 of a counter example. 77 00:02:18,433 --> 00:02:19,566 This year I've had a really good 78 00:02:19,566 --> 00:02:20,933 relationship with readers, 79 00:02:20,933 --> 00:02:21,933 a really good relationship with the public. 80 00:02:21,933 --> 00:02:23,166 - Right - The abuse has not been 81 00:02:23,166 --> 00:02:24,400 nearly as bad as it has been for other people. 82 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:25,666 - Only from the people you cover. 83 00:02:25,666 --> 00:02:28,166 - Yeah and not even that much from them. 84 00:02:28,166 --> 00:02:29,600 One of the weird things about Trump 85 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,633 is I don't even get abused that much by them. 86 00:02:31,633 --> 00:02:32,900 They just ignored me a lot 87 00:02:32,900 --> 00:02:33,733 - Are you offended? 88 00:02:33,733 --> 00:02:34,666 Wait a minute. 89 00:02:34,666 --> 00:02:35,600 He's attacking other people, 90 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:36,400 why won't he attack me right? 91 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:37,500 - I did not think that. 92 00:02:37,500 --> 00:02:39,333 - (Laughs) You know it's funny. 93 00:02:39,333 --> 00:02:42,366 Throughout a lot of this campaign 94 00:02:42,366 --> 00:02:43,833 Trump would go after individual reporters 95 00:02:43,833 --> 00:02:45,700 by name and - And occasionally the Post 96 00:02:45,700 --> 00:02:46,933 - Occasionally the Post 97 00:02:46,933 --> 00:02:48,533 and he banned us from covering him 98 00:02:48,533 --> 00:02:49,733 for a long time. 99 00:02:49,733 --> 00:02:51,000 But he's never actually tweeted about me. 100 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:52,966 And I blame the fact that my last name 101 00:02:52,966 --> 00:02:54,166 is hard to spell for the fact 102 00:02:54,166 --> 00:02:55,533 that some other people don't abuse me. 103 00:02:55,533 --> 00:02:56,500 (audience laughs) I think they abuse 104 00:02:56,500 --> 00:02:58,033 Congressman Blake Farenthold who 105 00:02:58,033 --> 00:02:59,533 has a slightly easier to spell version of my name. 106 00:02:59,533 --> 00:03:00,866 - He attacked the Congressman that's it 107 00:03:00,866 --> 00:03:02,866 we're gonna go back and look this up right now. 108 00:03:02,866 --> 00:03:03,800 - Maybe they blame him instead. 109 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:04,733 - So you worked for the Post, 110 00:03:04,733 --> 00:03:05,633 you've worked for the post 111 00:03:05,633 --> 00:03:06,833 for 16 years - Yes 112 00:03:06,833 --> 00:03:08,466 - It's been your one employer out of college. 113 00:03:08,466 --> 00:03:09,733 - Right - Right? 114 00:03:09,733 --> 00:03:10,933 - That's right - And you've covered Congress, 115 00:03:10,933 --> 00:03:12,166 you've covered D.C. city government, 116 00:03:12,166 --> 00:03:14,066 you've covered the bureaucracy, 117 00:03:14,066 --> 00:03:15,233 - D.C. police - the environment. 118 00:03:15,233 --> 00:03:16,366 You did all that sort of stuff, right? 119 00:03:16,366 --> 00:03:18,000 You've covered a range of things. 120 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:19,833 But never a presidential before. 121 00:03:19,833 --> 00:03:22,266 - Well I had done a little bit of the 2012 campaign, 122 00:03:22,266 --> 00:03:23,866 in which the highlight 123 00:03:23,866 --> 00:03:25,900 of my 2012 experience was that I found a man 124 00:03:25,900 --> 00:03:27,700 in New Hampshire who took his goat 125 00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:29,633 to meet all the candidates (audience laughs). 126 00:03:29,633 --> 00:03:30,766 - Okay, great - And you remember 127 00:03:30,766 --> 00:03:32,166 John Huntsman then. 128 00:03:32,166 --> 00:03:33,933 John Huntsman spent like a thousand days 129 00:03:33,933 --> 00:03:35,733 in New Hampshire and nobody liked him anyway. 130 00:03:35,733 --> 00:03:36,800 - He put all of his chips on that square. 131 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:37,633 - And nobody liked him 132 00:03:37,633 --> 00:03:38,633 except for the goat guy 133 00:03:38,633 --> 00:03:40,266 and that was because his goat 134 00:03:40,266 --> 00:03:41,566 had bit John Huntsman 135 00:03:41,566 --> 00:03:43,200 and Huntsman was totally cool about it. 136 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:44,466 And that was the one committed 137 00:03:44,466 --> 00:03:45,733 Huntsman voter I met 138 00:03:45,733 --> 00:03:46,666 - This is like the last five minutes 139 00:03:46,666 --> 00:03:48,366 of every local newscast right? 140 00:03:48,366 --> 00:03:50,566 The human interest story 141 00:03:50,566 --> 00:03:51,400 - Right 142 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:52,333 - The goat story 143 00:03:52,333 --> 00:03:53,866 So that was like your only 144 00:03:53,866 --> 00:03:55,133 - Nothing like 2016 145 00:03:55,133 --> 00:03:56,600 - This was really the first big presidential. 146 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,133 How do you get on the Trump beat 147 00:03:58,133 --> 00:03:59,366 if you're at the Post. 148 00:03:59,366 --> 00:04:01,200 You've got a news room full of big stars. 149 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:02,933 I mean this is not, 150 00:04:02,933 --> 00:04:05,133 I look at the Post's work over this campaign 151 00:04:05,133 --> 00:04:06,066 and I think the Post did the best work 152 00:04:06,066 --> 00:04:07,900 of any journalism organization. 153 00:04:07,900 --> 00:04:09,266 No close second 154 00:04:09,266 --> 00:04:11,233 and it was almost to a person, 155 00:04:11,233 --> 00:04:12,633 Dan Balls, Karen Tumulty, 156 00:04:12,633 --> 00:04:14,566 Robert Costa Katie Zezima. 157 00:04:14,566 --> 00:04:16,233 You go down the list, 158 00:04:16,233 --> 00:04:17,433 Rebecca Sinderbrand. 159 00:04:17,433 --> 00:04:19,100 Everybody at the Post did amazing work. 160 00:04:19,100 --> 00:04:20,200 You were one of many. 161 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:21,133 - Yes 162 00:04:21,133 --> 00:04:22,500 - How do you throw elbows 163 00:04:22,500 --> 00:04:24,466 and crowd yourself on to that team? 164 00:04:24,466 --> 00:04:25,633 - Well it kind of happened by accident. 165 00:04:25,633 --> 00:04:27,600 I spent 2015 covering, 166 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,233 I don't like parts of political journalism 167 00:04:29,233 --> 00:04:30,300 where you're one of 100 people 168 00:04:30,300 --> 00:04:31,366 following a candidate around. 169 00:04:31,366 --> 00:04:32,600 I wanted to be the one person 170 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,033 doing the story I was doing. 171 00:04:34,033 --> 00:04:35,800 So that meant covering basically losers last year. 172 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:36,966 So I spent a lot of last year writing 173 00:04:36,966 --> 00:04:38,366 about people who had no chance 174 00:04:38,366 --> 00:04:39,700 because I just thought they were interesting. 175 00:04:39,700 --> 00:04:41,200 So Rick Perry. 176 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:42,433 Actually when I flew to see Rick Perry give a speech, 177 00:04:42,433 --> 00:04:44,266 to start a profile of him, 178 00:04:44,266 --> 00:04:45,866 he dropped out in the middle of the speech 179 00:04:45,866 --> 00:04:47,266 that I saw him give. 180 00:04:47,266 --> 00:04:49,733 - You're like the Sports Illustrated cover curse, right? 181 00:04:49,733 --> 00:04:50,933 - It's like a mummy's curse. 182 00:04:50,933 --> 00:04:52,400 If touch you die. - You're dead. 183 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,700 - So it meant that by the time we got to Iowa, 184 00:04:54,700 --> 00:04:56,333 all the people I had covered, 185 00:04:56,333 --> 00:04:58,100 Santorum, Pataki, Gilmore, 186 00:04:58,100 --> 00:04:59,333 they were all gone. 187 00:04:59,333 --> 00:05:01,366 So they sent me to follow Trump around. 188 00:05:01,366 --> 00:05:02,800 To write a story. 189 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,566 Basically the oh my God - Were they trying to kill him 190 00:05:05,566 --> 00:05:06,400 is that what they were trying to do? 191 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:07,633 - No. 192 00:05:07,633 --> 00:05:08,866 It was supposed to be Donald Trump 193 00:05:08,866 --> 00:05:09,800 may actually win the Iowa caucuses. 194 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:10,766 Religious conservative Iowa, 195 00:05:10,766 --> 00:05:11,700 Donald Trump the three time 196 00:05:11,700 --> 00:05:12,966 married mogul might win. 197 00:05:12,966 --> 00:05:14,100 So they sent me to follow him around 198 00:05:14,100 --> 00:05:15,033 in a caucus state. 199 00:05:15,033 --> 00:05:16,566 And I'm in Waterloo, Iowa 200 00:05:16,566 --> 00:05:18,233 watching Trump give a rally. 201 00:05:18,233 --> 00:05:20,200 And Trump stops the rally in the middle and says, 202 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,133 come on up here people from this local 203 00:05:22,133 --> 00:05:24,000 Waterloo veteran's organization. 204 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:25,366 I'm going to give you a check. 205 00:05:25,366 --> 00:05:26,833 That's something I'd never seen before. 206 00:05:26,833 --> 00:05:28,966 He gives them this giant golf tournament sized check 207 00:05:28,966 --> 00:05:30,200 - Like a novelty check 208 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,800 - Yeah it says Donald J. Trump Foundation 209 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:34,133 on the top Make America Great Again 210 00:05:34,133 --> 00:05:34,966 on the bottom. 211 00:05:34,966 --> 00:05:37,000 It's for $100,000. 212 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:37,966 So he gives them this check 213 00:05:37,966 --> 00:05:38,900 and they say thank you 214 00:05:38,900 --> 00:05:40,166 and he goes back to the rally. 215 00:05:40,166 --> 00:05:41,800 So he's using his charity basically, 216 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,233 as a prop in his political rally. 217 00:05:44,233 --> 00:05:46,100 If you remember a few days earlier, 218 00:05:46,100 --> 00:05:48,166 Trump had held this big fundraiser 219 00:05:48,166 --> 00:05:49,100 for veterans in Iowa - right 220 00:05:49,100 --> 00:05:50,366 - Skipped the Republican debate 221 00:05:50,366 --> 00:05:51,366 - I think he said he had $6 million. 222 00:05:51,366 --> 00:05:53,033 - Said he raised $6 million total 223 00:05:53,033 --> 00:05:54,500 and that $1 million of it was his. 224 00:05:54,500 --> 00:05:56,066 So I see him give this big check to people 225 00:05:56,066 --> 00:05:57,733 and I don't know anything about charities 226 00:05:57,733 --> 00:05:59,366 but I know you can't do that. 227 00:05:59,366 --> 00:06:00,666 - There's a law. 228 00:06:00,666 --> 00:06:02,200 - There's a law that says that non-profits 229 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:03,400 like the Donald J. Trump Foundation 230 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,766 can not get involved in political campaigns. 231 00:06:05,766 --> 00:06:08,900 To me I thought what clearer evidence could there be 232 00:06:08,900 --> 00:06:11,666 that he's using his charity as a prop? 233 00:06:11,666 --> 00:06:12,600 So that was one thing 234 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:13,833 that I was interested in. 235 00:06:13,833 --> 00:06:14,633 The other thing was I saw him give out 236 00:06:14,633 --> 00:06:15,466 these big novelty checks 237 00:06:15,466 --> 00:06:16,700 and then he stopped. 238 00:06:16,700 --> 00:06:17,966 And he'd only given out about $1 million. 239 00:06:17,966 --> 00:06:19,166 And he said he'd raised six. 240 00:06:19,166 --> 00:06:20,366 So where's the rest of the money. 241 00:06:20,366 --> 00:06:21,300 So I came back. 242 00:06:21,300 --> 00:06:22,566 I had no candidates to cover 243 00:06:22,566 --> 00:06:23,866 because all my other candidates were dead 244 00:06:23,866 --> 00:06:25,466 and I thought alright, 245 00:06:25,466 --> 00:06:27,233 why don't I just spend a couple of days 246 00:06:27,233 --> 00:06:28,200 and figure out what happened 247 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:29,366 to the rest of the money. 248 00:06:29,366 --> 00:06:30,600 Figure out if Trump broke the law 249 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:31,533 and figure out what happened to the rets. 250 00:06:31,533 --> 00:06:32,800 - Did you do this on your own 251 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:33,733 or did you go to an editor at the paper 252 00:06:33,733 --> 00:06:34,933 and say I want to chase this? 253 00:06:34,933 --> 00:06:36,100 - This part was basically on my own 254 00:06:36,100 --> 00:06:37,100 because I didn't think I was assigning 255 00:06:37,100 --> 00:06:38,333 myself something for nine months. 256 00:06:38,333 --> 00:06:39,566 I thought I was assigning myself, 257 00:06:39,566 --> 00:06:40,833 - So a skunk work and if then it made, 258 00:06:40,833 --> 00:06:42,966 you go to your bosses 259 00:06:42,966 --> 00:06:44,200 and say look what I've got. 260 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,566 - Yeah and thought there's no way, 261 00:06:46,566 --> 00:06:47,866 I thought I would call the Trump campaign 262 00:06:47,866 --> 00:06:48,800 and they would say oh yeah, 263 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:50,033 here's the rest of the money. 264 00:06:50,033 --> 00:06:51,233 Because who would ever stiff veterans 265 00:06:51,233 --> 00:06:52,966 in the middle of a presidential campaign? 266 00:06:52,966 --> 00:06:54,200 Who would say I've raised $6 million 267 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:55,400 and then not give it out. 268 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:56,533 So of course they must have given it out. 269 00:06:56,533 --> 00:06:57,633 So I started calling them 270 00:06:57,633 --> 00:06:59,166 and calling veteran's groups 271 00:06:59,166 --> 00:07:00,433 to try to figure where the money went 272 00:07:00,433 --> 00:07:01,833 and it wasn't a couple of days. 273 00:07:01,833 --> 00:07:03,466 It wasn't an easy question to answer. 274 00:07:03,466 --> 00:07:05,666 That was February first 275 00:07:05,666 --> 00:07:07,200 that I saw him give the check out. 276 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:08,866 It took me until the end of May 277 00:07:08,866 --> 00:07:09,800 to get them to cough up where 278 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:11,166 the rest of the money was. 279 00:07:11,166 --> 00:07:12,466 - So did the Trump campaign not respond to you 280 00:07:12,466 --> 00:07:13,966 when you made initial calls? 281 00:07:13,966 --> 00:07:15,233 - They responded to me a little bit along the way. 282 00:07:15,233 --> 00:07:18,200 By the beginning of March we knew where 283 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:19,300 about half the money was 284 00:07:19,300 --> 00:07:20,800 but they said okay we're not 285 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:21,866 gonna tell you any more. 286 00:07:21,866 --> 00:07:23,200 And through all this was 287 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:24,633 Trump had said on the stage, 288 00:07:24,633 --> 00:07:25,900 I'm gonna give a million dollars 289 00:07:25,900 --> 00:07:26,900 of my own money, 290 00:07:26,900 --> 00:07:28,133 in addition to this money 291 00:07:28,133 --> 00:07:29,066 I had collected from other people, 292 00:07:29,066 --> 00:07:30,400 one of the six million is mine. 293 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:31,900 Well where was that? 294 00:07:31,900 --> 00:07:33,133 That was the part that I was most concerned about. 295 00:07:33,133 --> 00:07:35,766 That's the money he has the most control over. 296 00:07:35,766 --> 00:07:37,000 I asked questions, 297 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:38,266 I couldn't figure out the answer. 298 00:07:38,266 --> 00:07:40,100 Until something really interesting happened. 299 00:07:40,100 --> 00:07:42,100 At the end of May I get a phone call 300 00:07:42,100 --> 00:07:43,300 from Corey Lewandowski, 301 00:07:43,300 --> 00:07:44,800 who was Trump's campaign manager at the time. 302 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:46,966 And he says Mr. Trump has given out his 303 00:07:46,966 --> 00:07:49,133 million dollars to veterans. 304 00:07:49,133 --> 00:07:50,733 But I can't tell you who he gave it to 305 00:07:50,733 --> 00:07:52,266 or when or how or in what amounts. 306 00:07:52,266 --> 00:07:53,533 It's all secret. 307 00:07:53,533 --> 00:07:54,566 Except for fact that you should just know 308 00:07:54,566 --> 00:07:56,466 absolutely he has given money. 309 00:07:56,466 --> 00:07:57,300 - Take our word for it. 310 00:07:57,300 --> 00:07:58,500 - Take our word for it. 311 00:07:58,500 --> 00:07:59,433 But I didn't want to take their word for it. 312 00:07:59,433 --> 00:08:01,800 This is a huge campaign promise. 313 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,000 I'm not gonna just take their word for it. 314 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:04,500 So I said okay how can I figure this out? 315 00:08:04,500 --> 00:08:06,066 In the old days you just would have 316 00:08:06,066 --> 00:08:08,600 to call all eight zillion veteran's organizations. 317 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,200 You'd never really be sure 318 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:11,033 that he hadn't given it out. 319 00:08:11,033 --> 00:08:12,266 But now there's Twitter. 320 00:08:12,266 --> 00:08:13,500 And there's a way to put out these requests 321 00:08:13,500 --> 00:08:15,700 in a way that a lot of people will see it 322 00:08:15,700 --> 00:08:16,933 and that Trump will see it. 323 00:08:16,933 --> 00:08:19,166 - This is one of the amazing parts. 324 00:08:19,166 --> 00:08:20,766 In some ways your reporting over the course 325 00:08:20,766 --> 00:08:22,133 of the story was as modern 326 00:08:22,133 --> 00:08:24,333 and as tech forward as it could have been 327 00:08:24,333 --> 00:08:27,633 And in some ways it was literally ink on paper 328 00:08:27,633 --> 00:08:28,933 as old school as it could have been. 329 00:08:28,933 --> 00:08:30,400 But the tech forward part was 330 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:31,400 you used social media, 331 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:32,766 Twitter specifically. 332 00:08:32,766 --> 00:08:35,533 To essentially crowdsource the information 333 00:08:35,533 --> 00:08:38,000 that you were trying to get from these guys. 334 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:39,166 - That's right. 335 00:08:39,166 --> 00:08:40,500 So I thought the veterans philanthropy 336 00:08:40,500 --> 00:08:41,933 community is not huge. 337 00:08:41,933 --> 00:08:43,566 So I could tweet to Veterans of Foreign Wars, 338 00:08:43,566 --> 00:08:45,066 Disabled American Veterans, 339 00:08:45,066 --> 00:08:47,966 and other groups that deal with veterans 340 00:08:47,966 --> 00:08:49,466 in a way that not only 341 00:08:49,466 --> 00:08:50,900 the national press corp could see, 342 00:08:50,900 --> 00:08:51,733 because they're all on Twitter. 343 00:08:51,733 --> 00:08:52,933 Trump could see 344 00:08:52,933 --> 00:08:53,866 because I'm putting his handle on the tweet. 345 00:08:53,866 --> 00:08:55,133 And the idea was okay I'm gonna 346 00:08:55,133 --> 00:08:56,666 ask all these people hey did you get any 347 00:08:56,666 --> 00:08:58,100 of this million dollars Donald Trump gave out? 348 00:08:58,100 --> 00:08:59,233 But even if they didn't, 349 00:08:59,233 --> 00:09:00,233 someone else might see it 350 00:09:00,233 --> 00:09:01,033 and say hey you didn't ask us 351 00:09:01,033 --> 00:09:02,433 but we got money. 352 00:09:02,433 --> 00:09:04,233 So maybe you wouldn't find the whole iceberg 353 00:09:04,233 --> 00:09:05,366 but you'd find the tip of the iceberg. 354 00:09:05,366 --> 00:09:06,866 And maybe Trump would see it 355 00:09:06,866 --> 00:09:07,966 and respond in a way 356 00:09:07,966 --> 00:09:09,133 that would give us more details. 357 00:09:09,133 --> 00:09:10,066 - Yeah 358 00:09:10,066 --> 00:09:11,333 - So I spent a day tweeting 359 00:09:11,333 --> 00:09:12,633 and accomplished nothing. 360 00:09:12,633 --> 00:09:13,566 I learned nothing. 361 00:09:13,566 --> 00:09:14,900 The people all responded saying 362 00:09:14,900 --> 00:09:16,166 they hadn't gotten the money. 363 00:09:16,166 --> 00:09:18,500 I thought this is a huge waste of time. 364 00:09:18,500 --> 00:09:19,366 But Trump saw. 365 00:09:19,366 --> 00:09:20,600 And it turned out 366 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:21,866 that actually when Lewandowski told me 367 00:09:21,866 --> 00:09:22,966 that he'd given away his million dollars 368 00:09:22,966 --> 00:09:24,000 that was completely wrong. 369 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:25,233 That was totally false. 370 00:09:25,233 --> 00:09:26,733 The money was still in Trump's pocket. 371 00:09:26,733 --> 00:09:28,333 It was only after my day of tweeting 372 00:09:28,333 --> 00:09:29,266 at all these groups 373 00:09:29,266 --> 00:09:30,766 and looking for the money 374 00:09:30,766 --> 00:09:31,700 that Trump actually did give the million dollars, 375 00:09:31,700 --> 00:09:32,900 all in one fell swoop, 376 00:09:32,900 --> 00:09:35,366 to a group that he'd known for years. 377 00:09:35,366 --> 00:09:36,600 - Now we should say 378 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,133 that although this was the current year 379 00:09:38,133 --> 00:09:39,700 and this wouldn't have been available yet. 380 00:09:39,700 --> 00:09:42,000 In previous years when you're investigating 381 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:43,233 somebody's charitable giving, 382 00:09:43,233 --> 00:09:44,866 which you eventually did do over time, 383 00:09:44,866 --> 00:09:47,600 you would simply have tax returns available. 384 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,466 Tax returns would be a helpful 385 00:09:49,466 --> 00:09:50,633 primary source document. 386 00:09:50,633 --> 00:09:52,133 But in this case we didn't have, 387 00:09:52,133 --> 00:09:53,100 and still don't have, 388 00:09:53,100 --> 00:09:54,333 Trump's tax returns. 389 00:09:54,333 --> 00:09:55,700 - In previous years Clinton , 390 00:09:55,700 --> 00:09:58,633 anybody who'd run for office previously 391 00:09:58,633 --> 00:09:59,933 had released their personal tax returns. 392 00:09:59,933 --> 00:10:01,266 Which would show what they'd given. 393 00:10:01,266 --> 00:10:02,600 - If you were investigating somebody else's 394 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:03,666 charitable giving you would have it 395 00:10:03,666 --> 00:10:04,900 right there on paper. 396 00:10:04,900 --> 00:10:06,133 - It wouldn't be much of an investigation. 397 00:10:06,133 --> 00:10:08,800 - It wouldn't take any time to resolve. 398 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:10,600 - In this case Trump calls me 399 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,600 and says okay I've given this million dollars. 400 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:13,433 - He personally calls you. 401 00:10:13,433 --> 00:10:14,600 - He called. 402 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:15,133 This is the last time I talked to him. 403 00:10:15,133 --> 00:10:15,933 - Stop. 404 00:10:15,933 --> 00:10:16,866 I gotta know about this. 405 00:10:16,866 --> 00:10:18,366 This is actually interesting. 406 00:10:18,366 --> 00:10:19,833 Because he may have you killed at some point. 407 00:10:19,833 --> 00:10:22,800 So I want to ask you while I still can. 408 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,033 So he calls the Post switchboard? 409 00:10:25,033 --> 00:10:25,966 What does he do? 410 00:10:25,966 --> 00:10:27,166 Does he call your cell phone? 411 00:10:27,166 --> 00:10:27,833 - Well no I had been asking all along 412 00:10:27,833 --> 00:10:29,100 to talk to him. 413 00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:30,033 And in the past you could just call him. 414 00:10:30,033 --> 00:10:31,233 Like when I had written stories 415 00:10:31,233 --> 00:10:32,866 about him in the summer of 2015, 416 00:10:32,866 --> 00:10:34,833 you could just call his cell phone and get him. 417 00:10:34,833 --> 00:10:36,433 Now as he rose in the polls 418 00:10:36,433 --> 00:10:37,533 it was harder to get a hold of him. 419 00:10:37,533 --> 00:10:38,800 But I had been asking okay, 420 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:40,433 have him call me. 421 00:10:40,433 --> 00:10:41,400 So he did. 422 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:42,366 This is the last time we talked. 423 00:10:42,366 --> 00:10:43,533 He called me and he said yes 424 00:10:43,533 --> 00:10:45,133 I've given the million dollars away. 425 00:10:45,133 --> 00:10:47,600 Long after Lewandowski said he already had. 426 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,400 I said did you only give it now 427 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:50,966 because I was asking about it? 428 00:10:50,966 --> 00:10:52,700 He said you're a really nasty guy. 429 00:10:52,700 --> 00:10:53,900 You just a nasty guy. 430 00:10:53,900 --> 00:10:55,133 - Just for asking that question? 431 00:10:55,133 --> 00:10:56,133 - Yeah he didn't answer the question. 432 00:10:56,133 --> 00:10:57,433 It was the strangest interview 433 00:10:57,433 --> 00:10:59,633 because then I'm not gonna argue with him 434 00:10:59,633 --> 00:11:01,300 about whether I'm a nasty person, 435 00:11:01,300 --> 00:11:02,300 but I had other questions 436 00:11:02,300 --> 00:11:03,233 that I wanted him to answer. 437 00:11:03,233 --> 00:11:04,433 What happened to the other money 438 00:11:04,433 --> 00:11:05,466 that other donors gave you to give away? 439 00:11:05,466 --> 00:11:06,400 Where is that? 440 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:07,333 - The other five million. 441 00:11:07,333 --> 00:11:08,533 - The other five million. 442 00:11:08,533 --> 00:11:10,066 So I'm not just gonna argue with him 443 00:11:10,066 --> 00:11:11,266 so he would say oh you're a nasty guy, you're terrible. 444 00:11:11,266 --> 00:11:13,500 I would go back and ask a factual question. 445 00:11:13,500 --> 00:11:14,866 He would reset. 446 00:11:14,866 --> 00:11:16,333 He would give some factual answer 447 00:11:16,333 --> 00:11:18,500 which would then devolve into more insults of me 448 00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:19,800 and then we'd go back again. 449 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:21,033 So the strangest interview. 450 00:11:21,033 --> 00:11:22,600 - But that was the last time I talked to him. 451 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,033 We talked then, 452 00:11:24,033 --> 00:11:25,233 I wrote the story. 453 00:11:25,233 --> 00:11:26,166 - So at what point did you decide 454 00:11:26,166 --> 00:11:27,933 to expand your focus from 455 00:11:27,933 --> 00:11:29,233 that specific $6 million 456 00:11:29,233 --> 00:11:31,566 to all charitable giving by Donald Trump? 457 00:11:31,566 --> 00:11:32,833 - It was after that. 458 00:11:32,833 --> 00:11:35,566 So Trump after he called me, 459 00:11:35,566 --> 00:11:37,166 he had this angry press conference 460 00:11:37,166 --> 00:11:38,400 at Trump Tower where he described giving 461 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:39,400 away the rest of the money 462 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:40,366 that people had entrusted him 463 00:11:40,366 --> 00:11:41,666 just for the veterans thing. 464 00:11:41,666 --> 00:11:42,566 Remember he called the media a piece of work 465 00:11:42,566 --> 00:11:43,966 and insulted people. 466 00:11:43,966 --> 00:11:46,100 Then Marty Barron, 467 00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:47,600 our executive editor said 468 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,700 why don't you look at all his charitable giving. 469 00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:52,466 Basically if he's willing to play 470 00:11:52,466 --> 00:11:54,400 fast and loose with money for veterans 471 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,866 in the middle of a Republican presidential primary, 472 00:11:56,866 --> 00:11:58,600 has he been keeping his promises before 473 00:11:58,600 --> 00:11:59,966 when basically nobody was looking? 474 00:11:59,966 --> 00:12:00,966 - Right 475 00:12:00,966 --> 00:12:01,766 and at that point you broke out 476 00:12:01,766 --> 00:12:02,900 the big chief tablet. 477 00:12:02,900 --> 00:12:03,866 We actually wondered what was it? 478 00:12:03,866 --> 00:12:05,666 Is it a notepad? 479 00:12:05,666 --> 00:12:07,666 Was it a notebook? 480 00:12:07,666 --> 00:12:10,933 Because the museum ought to have your, 481 00:12:10,933 --> 00:12:13,266 whatever this thing was that you wrote on. 482 00:12:13,266 --> 00:12:14,100 - It was a legal pad. 483 00:12:14,100 --> 00:12:16,100 So I though okay now, 484 00:12:16,100 --> 00:12:17,400 the question then became 485 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,133 Trump over his lifetime had promised to give 486 00:12:19,133 --> 00:12:20,500 tens of millions of dollars away. 487 00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:22,766 He has this weird dichotomy where he's 488 00:12:22,766 --> 00:12:24,266 always telling you how rich he is. 489 00:12:24,266 --> 00:12:25,533 He's so rich he doesn't need more money. 490 00:12:25,533 --> 00:12:26,666 He's so rich. 491 00:12:26,666 --> 00:12:27,766 Like that's the first word 492 00:12:27,766 --> 00:12:29,000 of "The Art of the Deal." 493 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:30,866 I'm so rich I couldn't use any more money. 494 00:12:30,866 --> 00:12:32,400 But yet he's always hustling for more money. 495 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:33,600 He's trying to sell you steaks or classes, 496 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,933 - The gold plated Make America Great hats 497 00:12:36,933 --> 00:12:38,333 for Christmas - Right 498 00:12:38,333 --> 00:12:38,966 - I got an email probably today about that. 499 00:12:38,966 --> 00:12:40,100 - Right 500 00:12:40,100 --> 00:12:41,166 - So he's always like this guy 501 00:12:41,166 --> 00:12:42,300 who says I don't need more money 502 00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:43,233 but he's always hustling for your money. 503 00:12:43,233 --> 00:12:44,466 Well how does he suqre that? 504 00:12:44,466 --> 00:12:45,266 It's always well it's for charity. 505 00:12:45,266 --> 00:12:46,200 Trump University, 506 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:47,100 the profit's going to charity 507 00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:48,066 - Charity 508 00:12:48,066 --> 00:12:49,266 - Trump Water, going to charity. 509 00:12:49,266 --> 00:12:50,100 He told Howard Stern all the money 510 00:12:50,100 --> 00:12:50,933 for the Apprentice, 511 00:12:50,933 --> 00:12:51,766 $2.5 million a year, 512 00:12:51,766 --> 00:12:54,000 was going to charity. 513 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:54,833 - But no proof of that. 514 00:12:54,833 --> 00:12:55,800 - No proof of that. 515 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:57,100 So let's try to find again, 516 00:12:57,100 --> 00:12:58,266 the tip of the iceberg. 517 00:12:58,266 --> 00:12:59,400 So Trump wouldn't help me at all 518 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:00,533 and I thought well why don't I 519 00:13:00,533 --> 00:13:01,900 just make a list of the charities 520 00:13:01,900 --> 00:13:03,166 I think are most likely to have 521 00:13:03,166 --> 00:13:04,566 gotten money out of Trump's own pocket. 522 00:13:04,566 --> 00:13:05,400 I'll just call them. 523 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,633 I'll go down the list 524 00:13:07,633 --> 00:13:10,233 - How long was the initial list? 525 00:13:10,233 --> 00:13:12,366 - The initial list was a couple of hundred. 526 00:13:12,366 --> 00:13:14,066 When I wrote it down it was a couple hundred. 527 00:13:14,066 --> 00:13:15,733 And then I kept expanding it. 528 00:13:15,733 --> 00:13:17,033 Thinking maybe he would call 529 00:13:17,033 --> 00:13:18,300 and volunteer and tell me something 530 00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:19,533 or maybe somebody else would know something. 531 00:13:19,533 --> 00:13:21,266 So I started writing it down on a legal pad 532 00:13:21,266 --> 00:13:23,100 and taking pictures of it, 533 00:13:23,100 --> 00:13:24,066 putting it on Twitter. 534 00:13:24,066 --> 00:13:25,066 - Putting it on Twitter 535 00:13:25,066 --> 00:13:26,200 - The idea being that you can get 536 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:27,400 a lot more information into a picture 537 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:28,666 than you can into a tweet - Yeah 538 00:13:28,666 --> 00:13:30,433 - I wrote out the ones where they said never, 539 00:13:30,433 --> 00:13:32,466 he'd never given them money in one color ink. 540 00:13:32,466 --> 00:13:34,166 So you could see visually, 541 00:13:34,166 --> 00:13:35,800 how hard I'm trying 542 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:37,566 and how many places had said no 543 00:13:37,566 --> 00:13:38,400 we've never gotten his money. 544 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:39,466 - Right. 545 00:13:39,466 --> 00:13:41,100 And did the organizations you called 546 00:13:41,100 --> 00:13:43,600 respond in most cases quickly or at all? 547 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,366 Were some reluctant to cross Trump? 548 00:13:46,366 --> 00:13:47,300 What was the story there? 549 00:13:47,300 --> 00:13:48,466 - Almost everybody responded. 550 00:13:48,466 --> 00:13:49,633 So it started to grow 551 00:13:49,633 --> 00:13:50,966 and people started coming to me with things 552 00:13:50,966 --> 00:13:53,500 that I didn't even know I was looking for. 553 00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:56,366 I started out not really knowing what was legal 554 00:13:56,366 --> 00:13:57,833 and illegal in the world of charity. 555 00:13:57,833 --> 00:13:59,533 And also not really understanding 556 00:13:59,533 --> 00:14:01,033 - This was not your area of expertise before. 557 00:14:01,033 --> 00:14:02,266 It is now. 558 00:14:02,266 --> 00:14:03,400 - To the degree that I had an area of expertise 559 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,900 no this was definitely not it. 560 00:14:07,333 --> 00:14:11,000 Just as an example of how this all turned so fast. 561 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:12,266 I get a call one day, 562 00:14:12,266 --> 00:14:13,866 after I'd been out there doing 563 00:14:13,866 --> 00:14:15,100 this stuff for a while, 564 00:14:15,100 --> 00:14:16,166 from somebody in the Palm Beach area code. 565 00:14:16,166 --> 00:14:17,366 Somebody I don't know. 566 00:14:17,366 --> 00:14:19,000 Trump owns the Mar A Lago club in Palm Beach. 567 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,466 The person says havi art Trump. 568 00:14:21,466 --> 00:14:23,766 H-A-V-I art Trump. 569 00:14:23,766 --> 00:14:25,933 Okay that sounds like nonsense. 570 00:14:25,933 --> 00:14:26,866 Almost all the time you get 571 00:14:26,866 --> 00:14:28,833 a tip like that it's useless. 572 00:14:28,833 --> 00:14:30,700 But this was the perfect situation. 573 00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:32,433 I googled that and immediately found 574 00:14:32,433 --> 00:14:34,000 a portrait of Trump. 575 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,666 - This is the famous six foot portrait? 576 00:14:35,666 --> 00:14:36,700 - This is another portrait. 577 00:14:36,700 --> 00:14:37,633 - A second portrait. 578 00:14:37,633 --> 00:14:38,900 - This is the second portrait. 579 00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:40,233 The six foot portrait we knew about already. 580 00:14:40,233 --> 00:14:41,700 That's the one he paid $20,000 for 581 00:14:41,700 --> 00:14:42,633 out of his charity. 582 00:14:42,633 --> 00:14:43,366 - Out of foundation money. 583 00:14:43,366 --> 00:14:44,300 - Right. 584 00:14:44,300 --> 00:14:45,300 I still never found that one. 585 00:14:45,300 --> 00:14:47,100 As a brief aside on that. 586 00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:48,600 I think you'll enjoy this. 587 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,733 I get a picture of the six foot tall portrait. 588 00:14:50,733 --> 00:14:52,866 This was painted by a speed painter in five minutes. 589 00:14:52,866 --> 00:14:54,366 Trump paid $20,000 for it. 590 00:14:54,366 --> 00:14:57,066 It's a picture of Trump's face. 591 00:14:57,066 --> 00:14:58,966 It's sort of his normal skin tone 592 00:14:58,966 --> 00:15:01,300 but done in kind of a neony sort of way. 593 00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:02,533 We get a picture of it 594 00:15:02,533 --> 00:15:03,800 but we couldn't get the rights to use it. 595 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:04,933 So I'm thinking okay I'll put this 596 00:15:04,933 --> 00:15:06,100 into Google image search 597 00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:08,500 and it'll show me another place. 598 00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:09,933 Maybe it's hanging on the wall 599 00:15:09,933 --> 00:15:11,200 in the background of somebody's prom picture or something. 600 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:12,900 I put this picture of Trump's face 601 00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:14,133 into the Google image search. 602 00:15:14,133 --> 00:15:15,466 This is not a lie, 603 00:15:15,466 --> 00:15:16,700 this is absolutely true, 604 00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:18,733 Google says I think this is an orange. 605 00:15:18,733 --> 00:15:23,000 (audience laughs) and it shows me pictures 606 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:23,933 of Oranges, 607 00:15:23,933 --> 00:15:24,933 pictures of Orange Julius, 608 00:15:24,933 --> 00:15:26,833 orange juice. 609 00:15:26,833 --> 00:15:28,133 Anyway. 610 00:15:28,133 --> 00:15:29,333 - Literally can not make it up. 611 00:15:29,333 --> 00:15:30,600 - No. 612 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,133 So now this person calls and tells me 613 00:15:33,133 --> 00:15:34,833 so now we know about this second portrait. 614 00:15:34,833 --> 00:15:36,233 A $10,000 portrait that Trump 615 00:15:36,233 --> 00:15:37,466 had also bought in 2014 616 00:15:37,466 --> 00:15:38,833 with money meant for charity. 617 00:15:38,833 --> 00:15:40,600 So from the tip from the Google search 618 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:41,866 I call the charity and confirm it. 619 00:15:41,866 --> 00:15:43,900 I get a picture of that new portrait. 620 00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:44,833 - That one you can get. 621 00:15:44,833 --> 00:15:46,033 - I do have the rights to. 622 00:15:46,033 --> 00:15:48,666 I post it online at like 10:00 a.m. one day. 623 00:15:48,666 --> 00:15:51,800 So the tax rules say Trump can't just take 624 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,433 that picture and hang it on the wall of his house. 625 00:15:54,433 --> 00:15:56,800 He can't hang it on the wall of his club. 626 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,533 It has to serve some charitable purpose. 627 00:15:58,533 --> 00:15:59,833 So I ask the Trump people where is it? 628 00:15:59,833 --> 00:16:01,133 What's it doing? 629 00:16:01,133 --> 00:16:02,433 Is it on the wall of a children's hospital? 630 00:16:02,433 --> 00:16:03,600 What's it doing? 631 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:04,700 No response. 632 00:16:04,700 --> 00:16:05,900 So I put this out at 10:00 a.m. 633 00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:09,233 And by five o'clock that night, 634 00:16:09,233 --> 00:16:10,500 at that point I don't know where it is. 635 00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:11,433 It could be burned, 636 00:16:11,433 --> 00:16:12,700 It could be buried in a hole. 637 00:16:12,700 --> 00:16:14,066 It could be hanging on a wall in Trump Tower. 638 00:16:14,066 --> 00:16:16,233 Five o'clock that night I get an email 639 00:16:16,233 --> 00:16:17,466 from somebody who is a Twitter follower 640 00:16:17,466 --> 00:16:18,733 of mine in Atlanta. 641 00:16:18,733 --> 00:16:20,600 Stay at home mother Alison Aguilar. 642 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,166 She had gone to the Trip Advisor page 643 00:16:23,166 --> 00:16:24,933 for Trump's golf course at Doral 644 00:16:24,933 --> 00:16:27,433 where you can put in user generated photos 645 00:16:27,433 --> 00:16:29,333 so there's like 500 photos 646 00:16:29,333 --> 00:16:31,866 of people's hotel bathrooms, the 18th green. 647 00:16:31,866 --> 00:16:34,166 She's been scanning them 20 at a time 648 00:16:34,166 --> 00:16:35,400 and she spots this portrait. 649 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:36,766 - At the golf club. 650 00:16:36,766 --> 00:16:38,033 - At the golf club. 651 00:16:38,033 --> 00:16:40,266 Okay so now we know from the Trip Advisor picture 652 00:16:40,266 --> 00:16:42,500 it was at the golf club in February of 2016. 653 00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:44,166 But where is it now? 654 00:16:44,166 --> 00:16:45,866 So at 6:00 I tweet that out. 655 00:16:45,866 --> 00:16:46,700 Look we found this picture. 656 00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:48,133 We know where it was. 657 00:16:48,133 --> 00:16:49,666 There's a guy named Enrique Acevedo 658 00:16:49,666 --> 00:16:51,166 who is an anchor at Univision. 659 00:16:51,166 --> 00:16:52,700 He does the 11:30 to midnight newscast 660 00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:54,566 at Univision whose studios are 661 00:16:54,566 --> 00:16:55,633 in Doral, Florida. 662 00:16:55,633 --> 00:16:56,633 Close to this club. 663 00:16:56,633 --> 00:16:58,266 He sees my tweet. 664 00:16:58,266 --> 00:17:00,000 He remembers that it's four blocks away. 665 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:01,500 He makes a reservation for that night. 666 00:17:01,500 --> 00:17:02,766 And he uses points. 667 00:17:02,766 --> 00:17:03,966 He doesn't want to give Donald Trump 668 00:17:03,966 --> 00:17:06,200 any of his money but he uses points. 669 00:17:08,333 --> 00:17:10,533 So he goes over to the club checks in 670 00:17:10,533 --> 00:17:12,333 and starts wandering the halls 671 00:17:12,333 --> 00:17:13,666 and convinces the cleaning folks 672 00:17:13,666 --> 00:17:15,166 to let him into the sports bar 673 00:17:15,166 --> 00:17:17,133 and bang there it is on the wall. 674 00:17:17,133 --> 00:17:18,933 So we went from 10:00 a.m. who knows 675 00:17:18,933 --> 00:17:19,766 where in the world it is 676 00:17:19,766 --> 00:17:21,300 to 12:30 at night. 677 00:17:21,300 --> 00:17:22,500 - This modern world of journalism 678 00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:23,433 - It's amazing. 679 00:17:23,433 --> 00:17:24,366 It would have taken me 10 years 680 00:17:24,366 --> 00:17:25,500 to find that thing on my own. 681 00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:27,066 - Investigative journalism is not dead. 682 00:17:27,066 --> 00:17:28,533 Period, paragraph. 683 00:17:28,533 --> 00:17:29,600 You're proving that 684 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:30,533 and you're proving it in a way 685 00:17:30,533 --> 00:17:31,666 that combines the modern 686 00:17:31,666 --> 00:17:33,233 and the old school, right? 687 00:17:33,233 --> 00:17:34,066 - I think so. 688 00:17:34,066 --> 00:17:35,300 And people enjoyed it. 689 00:17:35,300 --> 00:17:36,166 That was the thing that people liked about it. 690 00:17:36,166 --> 00:17:37,400 It was a scavenger hunt. 691 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,166 There was something tangible to look for. 692 00:17:39,166 --> 00:17:40,900 And also it was easier to tell the story 693 00:17:40,900 --> 00:17:42,733 of misuse of charity money 694 00:17:42,733 --> 00:17:44,466 when you have something like that. 695 00:17:44,466 --> 00:17:46,900 Of course it's illegal to buy a portrait 696 00:17:46,900 --> 00:17:48,133 of yourself and hang it on the wall. 697 00:17:48,133 --> 00:17:49,400 - In the end we all in the media business 698 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,000 and people are closely following this campaign 699 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:52,933 knew what you were doing, 700 00:17:52,933 --> 00:17:53,766 paid attention, 701 00:17:53,766 --> 00:17:55,033 admired it. 702 00:17:55,033 --> 00:17:57,466 The public did not seem to believe 703 00:17:57,466 --> 00:17:58,700 that the Trump Foundation, 704 00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:00,233 whatever it was or was not doing, 705 00:18:00,233 --> 00:18:02,066 was a relevant data point 706 00:18:02,066 --> 00:18:03,866 in the outcome of this campaign. 707 00:18:03,866 --> 00:18:05,533 - Well I think you can't assume by the fact 708 00:18:05,533 --> 00:18:07,600 that Trump won that people didn't care. 709 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,666 I think people did care about that. 710 00:18:09,666 --> 00:18:11,100 - In the end they didn't care 711 00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:12,566 as much about that as other things. 712 00:18:12,566 --> 00:18:14,933 - Yeah that's right. 713 00:18:14,933 --> 00:18:16,166 That's fine. 714 00:18:16,166 --> 00:18:17,900 You don't do this to try to beat Trump. 715 00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:18,833 You do this - Of course 716 00:18:18,833 --> 00:18:20,166 - so people can be informed. 717 00:18:20,166 --> 00:18:22,700 I think you're dependent always in the media 718 00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:25,166 on other media picking stuff like this up, 719 00:18:25,166 --> 00:18:26,100 the candidate, 720 00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:27,333 the candidate's surrogates. 721 00:18:27,333 --> 00:18:30,166 The Trump Foundation got some kind of lift 722 00:18:30,166 --> 00:18:31,633 from the campaign. 723 00:18:31,633 --> 00:18:32,966 President Obama mentioned it once on the trail. 724 00:18:32,966 --> 00:18:34,666 The six foot portrait to mock Trump. 725 00:18:34,666 --> 00:18:36,066 I did a lot of TV. 726 00:18:36,066 --> 00:18:37,200 There was some pick up on other media 727 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:38,033 - Yeah 728 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:40,633 - I could only do so much. 729 00:18:40,633 --> 00:18:42,033 I can only sort of put it out there so much 730 00:18:42,033 --> 00:18:43,566 and if people are interested it'll go on its own. 731 00:18:43,566 --> 00:18:44,500 - Let me ask you a question. 732 00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:45,600 Why didn't you investigate 733 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,666 the Clinton Foundation as closely? 734 00:18:48,666 --> 00:18:51,133 - Because it was another person's job at the Post. 735 00:18:51,133 --> 00:18:51,966 - So somebody else did it. 736 00:18:51,966 --> 00:18:53,166 - Right 737 00:18:53,166 --> 00:18:54,400 - It's not that you didn't necessarily think 738 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,166 this is a worthy topic of investigation but 739 00:18:56,166 --> 00:18:58,366 - I had done some Clinton Foundation stuff back in 2015 740 00:18:58,366 --> 00:19:00,900 but at that point it had been sort of bifurcated. 741 00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:01,900 - And also the Clinton Foundation 742 00:19:01,900 --> 00:19:03,166 and the Trump Foundation, 743 00:19:03,166 --> 00:19:04,766 my sort of distanced reading of the two, 744 00:19:04,766 --> 00:19:05,833 different situations. 745 00:19:05,833 --> 00:19:07,366 - Yeah. 746 00:19:07,366 --> 00:19:10,133 The Clinton Foundation is a public charity so it's big. 747 00:19:10,133 --> 00:19:12,033 It's designed to take in money from people 748 00:19:12,033 --> 00:19:12,866 other than the Clintons. 749 00:19:12,866 --> 00:19:13,800 It does a lot of things. 750 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,066 It employs a lot of people. 751 00:19:15,066 --> 00:19:16,066 - No problem knowing where that money went. 752 00:19:16,066 --> 00:19:17,000 - Right, exactly. 753 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:17,933 It employs a lot of people, 754 00:19:17,933 --> 00:19:19,233 it does direct charitable work. 755 00:19:19,233 --> 00:19:20,366 There it's a question of 756 00:19:20,366 --> 00:19:21,766 the moral responsibility of power, right? 757 00:19:21,766 --> 00:19:22,600 - Right 758 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:23,533 - Clinton has power. 759 00:19:23,533 --> 00:19:24,466 Did she use that power when 760 00:19:24,466 --> 00:19:25,600 she was Secretary of State 761 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:26,800 in a way that benefited her charity? 762 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:28,333 For Trump, it's a really small organization, 763 00:19:28,333 --> 00:19:29,266 the foundation. 764 00:19:29,266 --> 00:19:30,200 It doesn't employ anybody. 765 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,100 It's a question of the moral 766 00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:33,366 responsibility of wealth. 767 00:19:33,366 --> 00:19:34,300 Does Trump feel, 768 00:19:34,300 --> 00:19:35,500 the fact that he's wealthy, 769 00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:36,800 does he feel a moral responsibility 770 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:38,800 to help people who are less fortunate than him? 771 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,266 And what you see is he actually tried, 772 00:19:40,266 --> 00:19:42,666 he knew that people expected he would feel 773 00:19:42,666 --> 00:19:43,900 that moral responsibility, 774 00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:45,133 but he tried to do as much as he could 775 00:19:45,133 --> 00:19:46,833 to sort of shirk it or to have an illusion 776 00:19:46,833 --> 00:19:47,766 that he was fulfilling it. 777 00:19:47,766 --> 00:19:49,000 - Well he talked about it 778 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:49,933 and the question is did he actually 779 00:19:49,933 --> 00:19:51,200 back up what he talked about? 780 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:52,400 - Right even though in the Trump Foundation, 781 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:53,633 he used other people's money to do that, 782 00:19:53,633 --> 00:19:54,700 in a way that people thought they were 783 00:19:54,700 --> 00:19:55,633 getting money from Trump. 784 00:19:55,633 --> 00:19:57,100 - Most years of reporting 785 00:19:57,100 --> 00:19:58,633 and on a campaign, 786 00:19:58,633 --> 00:19:59,866 you do the Trump Foundation story 787 00:19:59,866 --> 00:20:02,366 which happens over time that's enough. 788 00:20:02,366 --> 00:20:03,733 You also broke the Billy Bush 789 00:20:03,733 --> 00:20:05,300 Access Hollywood tape story. 790 00:20:05,300 --> 00:20:06,666 - Yes 791 00:20:06,666 --> 00:20:07,833 - That was your story. 792 00:20:07,833 --> 00:20:08,666 - Yes 793 00:20:08,666 --> 00:20:09,900 - You wrote that story 794 00:20:09,900 --> 00:20:11,333 and on the day you wrote that story 795 00:20:11,333 --> 00:20:13,733 that was the most concurrently read 796 00:20:13,733 --> 00:20:15,166 story in the history 797 00:20:15,166 --> 00:20:17,233 of the Washington Post website. 798 00:20:17,233 --> 00:20:18,866 - The champion story before this 799 00:20:18,866 --> 00:20:20,600 had been a story about a lady in Borundi 800 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,066 who had faked her own death 801 00:20:22,066 --> 00:20:23,566 and showed up to scare people at her own funeral. 802 00:20:23,566 --> 00:20:27,533 (audience laughs) It's a pretty good story. 803 00:20:27,533 --> 00:20:29,333 So that had been the most total views 804 00:20:29,333 --> 00:20:30,600 and the most concurrent views, 805 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,133 meaning the most people reading it at one time. 806 00:20:32,133 --> 00:20:32,966 - Right 807 00:20:32,966 --> 00:20:34,366 - So I should say, 808 00:20:34,366 --> 00:20:35,766 the number of people reading a story at one time, 809 00:20:35,766 --> 00:20:37,566 we have that on a big chart in the newsroom 810 00:20:37,566 --> 00:20:38,866 and 20,000 people reading a story 811 00:20:38,866 --> 00:20:39,933 at one time is huge. 812 00:20:39,933 --> 00:20:40,766 - Is generally a lot 813 00:20:40,766 --> 00:20:42,200 - Right 814 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:42,900 - How many people were reading this story at one time 815 00:20:42,900 --> 00:20:43,600 - Over 100,000. 816 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:44,300 - At one time. 817 00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:45,600 - At one time. 818 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:46,433 The little dial we have to measure it 819 00:20:46,433 --> 00:20:47,400 was literally spinning 820 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,466 and the traffic servers broke 821 00:20:49,466 --> 00:20:51,166 because there was so much traffic. 822 00:20:51,166 --> 00:20:52,800 - And that was a story 823 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,500 that within a very short space 824 00:20:55,500 --> 00:20:57,266 of time after you published that story, 825 00:20:57,266 --> 00:20:59,600 I think NBC published a version 826 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:00,800 of the same story or the video 827 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,066 - Right 828 00:21:02,066 --> 00:21:04,100 - It had been of course in their property prior 829 00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:06,033 and they had declined to publish it at that point 830 00:21:06,033 --> 00:21:06,866 You published it 831 00:21:06,866 --> 00:21:07,700 and then they went ahead 832 00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:09,166 and they published it. 833 00:21:09,166 --> 00:21:10,400 So it no longer became your story as an exclusive 834 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:11,233 but you were first. 835 00:21:11,233 --> 00:21:12,233 - We were first. 836 00:21:12,233 --> 00:21:15,200 We got the story about 11:00 a.m. 837 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,700 We go the tape about 11:00 a.m. on a Friday. 838 00:21:17,700 --> 00:21:19,400 It was not something that I had been looking for. 839 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:20,666 I'd been doing this charity stuff. 840 00:21:20,666 --> 00:21:22,200 - Without asking you to reveal anything, 841 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:23,033 you got a tip. 842 00:21:23,033 --> 00:21:23,966 - Right. 843 00:21:23,966 --> 00:21:24,700 - That's what happens, right? 844 00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:25,533 Why you? 845 00:21:26,866 --> 00:21:28,000 You were the Trump Foundation guy. 846 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,500 - I was much better known then 847 00:21:29,500 --> 00:21:30,733 than I had been before. 848 00:21:30,733 --> 00:21:32,466 You don't look a gift horse in the mouth. 849 00:21:32,466 --> 00:21:34,433 - Speaking of charity, right? 850 00:21:34,433 --> 00:21:36,033 - Right. 851 00:21:36,033 --> 00:21:37,866 So we knew, the video, 852 00:21:38,966 --> 00:21:42,033 once it came in it was obvious. 853 00:21:42,033 --> 00:21:43,300 It's a five minute video. 854 00:21:43,300 --> 00:21:44,433 The first two minutes were Trump 855 00:21:44,433 --> 00:21:45,633 and Billy Bush were on the bus. 856 00:21:45,633 --> 00:21:46,466 You can hear them 857 00:21:46,466 --> 00:21:47,733 but you can't see them. 858 00:21:47,733 --> 00:21:49,966 That was the part that we cared about. 859 00:21:49,966 --> 00:21:53,900 We had a couple of questions right off the bat. 860 00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:56,466 At 11:00 a.m. we get it. 861 00:21:56,466 --> 00:21:57,433 Our video people tell me, 862 00:21:57,433 --> 00:21:58,433 look we're gonna cut this 863 00:21:58,433 --> 00:21:59,400 and make it into a video. 864 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:00,400 We're going to subtitle it 865 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:01,400 so you tell what they're saying. 866 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:02,566 We need til 3:30. 867 00:22:02,566 --> 00:22:03,800 3:30 in the afternoon. 868 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,100 That's the soonest we could have it done. 869 00:22:05,100 --> 00:22:06,066 So that's the time frame we had. 870 00:22:06,066 --> 00:22:07,500 So we had to call NBC to see 871 00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:08,900 if they were gonna sue us 872 00:22:08,900 --> 00:22:10,600 because it was their video. 873 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:11,900 Or if they were gonna say it was a hoax. 874 00:22:11,900 --> 00:22:13,133 And then we went to Trump to see 875 00:22:13,133 --> 00:22:14,900 is he gonna say it's a hoax 876 00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:16,633 because as I said you can hear them 877 00:22:16,633 --> 00:22:17,800 you can't see them. 878 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,033 You can't see Trump's mouth moving 879 00:22:19,033 --> 00:22:22,333 so will they say oh that's not really him. 880 00:22:22,333 --> 00:22:25,000 We sent the Trump people first a transcript 881 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,033 of the offending part of the video 882 00:22:28,033 --> 00:22:30,900 and the said well it doesn't sound like Mr. Trump. 883 00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:32,833 Can you send us the full video. 884 00:22:32,833 --> 00:22:34,166 There was some debate among the editors 885 00:22:34,166 --> 00:22:35,500 and they decided yes send them the video. 886 00:22:35,500 --> 00:22:37,666 That was a little after 3:30 887 00:22:37,666 --> 00:22:40,200 and we were gonna publish it at four. 888 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,866 At four o'clock as someone's walking over, 889 00:22:42,866 --> 00:22:44,633 this is how lame the stop the presses 890 00:22:44,633 --> 00:22:46,800 moments are in digital journalism. 891 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:47,733 There's no presses, 892 00:22:47,733 --> 00:22:48,700 there's no big button to hit. 893 00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:50,200 There's someone walking over 894 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:51,600 to her desk to hit the button to publish it 895 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,100 and the Trump people called 896 00:22:53,100 --> 00:22:54,933 so I told her to stop. 897 00:22:54,933 --> 00:22:57,166 They said we're gonna send you a statement. 898 00:22:57,166 --> 00:22:58,400 Basically it's him. 899 00:22:58,400 --> 00:22:59,933 He said that it's just locker room talk, 900 00:22:59,933 --> 00:23:01,266 you remember he said I apologize. 901 00:23:01,266 --> 00:23:02,433 - Yeah right, right. 902 00:23:02,433 --> 00:23:03,233 - I apologize if anybody was offended. 903 00:23:03,233 --> 00:23:04,100 Which surprised me. 904 00:23:04,100 --> 00:23:05,200 I had had so little luck 905 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,033 from the Trump Campaign 906 00:23:06,033 --> 00:23:07,300 responding to anything 907 00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:08,733 that I had asked them about the foundation. 908 00:23:08,733 --> 00:23:09,966 I was surprised they would admit to this. 909 00:23:09,966 --> 00:23:11,066 But they did. 910 00:23:11,066 --> 00:23:12,833 - It's just stunning to me 911 00:23:12,833 --> 00:23:14,433 that they didn't try to delay 912 00:23:14,433 --> 00:23:16,466 or just not answer in the way 913 00:23:16,466 --> 00:23:18,466 that they had prior. 914 00:23:18,466 --> 00:23:20,166 They could have basically anything 915 00:23:20,166 --> 00:23:21,566 to keep you from publishing. 916 00:23:21,566 --> 00:23:23,533 Would you have published if he hadn't responded? 917 00:23:23,533 --> 00:23:24,466 Obviously you were about to. 918 00:23:24,466 --> 00:23:25,300 - We were about to. 919 00:23:25,300 --> 00:23:26,233 - You were about to. 920 00:23:26,233 --> 00:23:27,166 It didn't make a difference. 921 00:23:27,166 --> 00:23:28,433 - No That was not my call 922 00:23:28,433 --> 00:23:29,633 but the lawyers and editors had decided 923 00:23:29,633 --> 00:23:30,566 that we had done everything we could 924 00:23:30,566 --> 00:23:31,800 to make sure they knew about it 925 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:32,500 and given them a chance to respond 926 00:23:32,500 --> 00:23:33,333 and they hadn't. 927 00:23:33,333 --> 00:23:34,733 - Again I'll observe. 928 00:23:34,733 --> 00:23:36,166 Among the many things that were different 929 00:23:36,166 --> 00:23:37,266 about this campaign than 930 00:23:37,266 --> 00:23:38,633 any previous campaign in our lives 931 00:23:38,633 --> 00:23:39,966 and we may never have this again. 932 00:23:39,966 --> 00:23:41,833 This kind of a story hits, 933 00:23:41,833 --> 00:23:43,866 it changes temporarily, 934 00:23:43,866 --> 00:23:45,200 the trajectory of the campaign. 935 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:46,300 - It does. 936 00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:47,166 - And then ultimately it does not 937 00:23:47,166 --> 00:23:48,833 change the outcome. 938 00:23:48,833 --> 00:23:50,900 - And at the time I had thought 939 00:23:50,900 --> 00:23:52,966 that its legacy would be, 940 00:23:54,433 --> 00:23:56,466 Trump had gotten away with so much 941 00:23:56,466 --> 00:23:57,433 that he'd done before 942 00:23:57,433 --> 00:23:58,400 because it was so public. 943 00:23:58,400 --> 00:23:59,366 All the Howard Stern stuff. 944 00:23:59,366 --> 00:24:00,500 Imagine if Mitt Romney had said 945 00:24:00,500 --> 00:24:01,866 one-tenth the stuff 946 00:24:01,866 --> 00:24:03,066 that Trump had said on Howard Stern. 947 00:24:03,066 --> 00:24:04,233 We would have tarred and feathered him right? 948 00:24:04,233 --> 00:24:05,800 But now Trump says it in public, 949 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:06,800 he's playing this character, 950 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:07,733 it seems like it's okay. 951 00:24:07,733 --> 00:24:08,666 Well this was private, right 952 00:24:08,666 --> 00:24:09,500 and it was not just talk. 953 00:24:09,500 --> 00:24:10,400 It was him describing, 954 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:11,800 this is how I act, 955 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,266 this is what I do to women. 956 00:24:14,266 --> 00:24:15,800 Then it set off this sort of 957 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,166 inter-Republican fighting. 958 00:24:17,166 --> 00:24:18,566 I thought that was going to be the legacy. 959 00:24:18,566 --> 00:24:19,833 Remember Paul Ryan pulled back 960 00:24:19,833 --> 00:24:21,033 and Trump attacked him. 961 00:24:21,033 --> 00:24:21,966 - Well people said Mike Pence may 962 00:24:21,966 --> 00:24:22,900 drop off the ticket right? 963 00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:23,833 Ultimately it didn't happen. 964 00:24:23,833 --> 00:24:26,566 - At some point in October, 965 00:24:26,566 --> 00:24:30,500 after that but before the Comey letter. 966 00:24:30,500 --> 00:24:31,833 When it seemed like this was the biggest thing 967 00:24:31,833 --> 00:24:33,366 that had happened on the campaign. 968 00:24:33,366 --> 00:24:36,066 I was interviewed by this German journalist 969 00:24:36,066 --> 00:24:37,166 who at the time wanted 970 00:24:37,166 --> 00:24:38,600 to find out about this story. 971 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,500 He asked me in this very German way, 972 00:24:40,500 --> 00:24:43,166 do you think that this is the peak of your life? 973 00:24:43,166 --> 00:24:47,600 (audience laughs) It will never get any better? 974 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,000 I was like fine. 975 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,900 That's better than writing about Jim Gilmore. 976 00:24:51,900 --> 00:24:53,533 But the Comey letter. 977 00:24:53,533 --> 00:24:55,233 You have a lot of factors here. 978 00:24:55,233 --> 00:24:57,166 I've heard people say the Comey letter was, 979 00:24:57,166 --> 00:24:58,600 I heard Nate Silver the Comey letter 980 00:24:58,600 --> 00:24:59,633 swung the race in a way. 981 00:24:59,633 --> 00:25:01,766 And that's not fake news. 982 00:25:01,766 --> 00:25:02,666 - We're never gonna know 983 00:25:02,666 --> 00:25:03,500 - Right. 984 00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:04,333 - We're never gonna know 985 00:25:04,333 --> 00:25:05,166 - Right 986 00:25:05,166 --> 00:25:06,100 - We're out of time. 987 00:25:06,100 --> 00:25:07,500 Was this the peak of your life? 988 00:25:07,500 --> 00:25:08,700 I should ask you the (audience laughs) same question. 989 00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:09,733 I'm afraid that the German reporter 990 00:25:09,733 --> 00:25:11,933 took my last question. 991 00:25:11,933 --> 00:25:14,200 It's a good time to be doing this work. 992 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:15,300 - It's a great time to be doing this work. 993 00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:17,533 We're now entering this era 994 00:25:17,533 --> 00:25:19,533 where I couldn't tell you what's gonna happen. 995 00:25:19,533 --> 00:25:20,766 It's completely uncertain 996 00:25:20,766 --> 00:25:23,566 but it's a great time in American journalism. 997 00:25:23,566 --> 00:25:25,233 I feel like I understand how to cover Trump. 998 00:25:25,233 --> 00:25:26,133 A lot of other people do. 999 00:25:26,133 --> 00:25:27,600 - Yeah 1000 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:28,533 - There's a lot of people doing great work now. 1001 00:25:28,533 --> 00:25:29,766 I don't know what's coming next 1002 00:25:29,766 --> 00:25:31,000 but I know that we at least are prepared. 1003 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:31,566 - Are you still on the Trump beat? 1004 00:25:31,566 --> 00:25:32,833 - Yes 1005 00:25:32,833 --> 00:25:33,500 - And you'll stay on the Trump beat? 1006 00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:34,700 - Of course. 1007 00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:36,033 - On behalf of America thank you. 1008 00:25:36,033 --> 00:25:37,200 - David Fahrenthold thank you very much 1009 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,633 (audience applauds) 1010 00:25:39,633 --> 00:25:41,100 Great job. 1011 00:25:41,100 --> 00:25:41,933 Thank you. 1012 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:44,033 - [Voiceover] We'd love to have you 1013 00:25:44,033 --> 00:25:45,633 join us in the studio. 1014 00:25:45,633 --> 00:25:49,266 Visit our website at klru.org/overheard 1015 00:25:49,266 --> 00:25:51,433 to find invitations to interviews, 1016 00:25:51,433 --> 00:25:53,233 Q&As with our audience and guests 1017 00:25:53,233 --> 00:25:55,900 and an archive of past episodes. 1018 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,000 - With Bezos he's somebody who'd 1019 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,166 never owned a newspaper before. 1020 00:26:00,166 --> 00:26:01,533 We knew Don Graham, 1021 00:26:01,533 --> 00:26:04,100 our beloved former publisher had chosen him 1022 00:26:04,100 --> 00:26:05,500 so he must have been good. 1023 00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:06,433 But he's done things like 1024 00:26:06,433 --> 00:26:07,500 when Jason Rezaian our reporter, 1025 00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:08,933 was imprisoned in Iran, 1026 00:26:08,933 --> 00:26:11,666 when the Iranians finally let him go, 1027 00:26:11,666 --> 00:26:13,633 Bezos went over there to get him. 1028 00:26:13,633 --> 00:26:15,100 Got him on his private jet 1029 00:26:15,100 --> 00:26:17,633 and said where do you want to go? 1030 00:26:17,633 --> 00:26:18,566 And Rezaian was like, 1031 00:26:18,566 --> 00:26:19,766 I want to go to Key West. 1032 00:26:19,766 --> 00:26:20,566 So they flew him straight to Key West 1033 00:26:20,566 --> 00:26:22,166 from the Army hospital. 1034 00:26:22,166 --> 00:26:24,900 - [Voiceover] Funding for Overheard with Evan Smith 1035 00:26:24,900 --> 00:26:26,333 is provided in part by the 1036 00:26:26,333 --> 00:26:28,833 Alice Kleberg Reynolds Foundation 1037 00:26:28,833 --> 00:26:30,400 and Hillco Partners, 1038 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,266 a Texas government affairs consultancy 1039 00:26:33,266 --> 00:26:36,300 and by KLRU's producers circle 1040 00:26:36,300 --> 00:26:37,766 ensuring local programming 1041 00:26:37,766 --> 00:26:39,233 that reflects the character 1042 00:26:39,233 --> 00:26:43,233 and interests of the greater Austin, Texas community