>> FUNDING FOR OVERHEARD

WITH EVAN SMITH IS PROVIDED

IN PART BY THE MATTSSON

MCHALE FOUNDATION IN SUPPORT

OF PUBLIC TELEVISION.

ALSO BY MFI FOUNDATION,

IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF

LIFE WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY.

AND FROM THE TEXAS BOARD OF

LEGAL SPECIALIZATION, BOARD

CERTIFIED ATTORNEYS IN YOUR

COMMUNITY.

EXPERIENCED, RESPECTED AND

TESTED.

ALSO BY HILLCO PARTNERS,

TEXAS GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS

CONSULTANCY, AND ITS GLOBAL

HEALTH CARE CONSULTING

BUSINESS UNIT, HILLCO

HEALTH.

AND BY THE ALICE KLEBERG

REYNOLDS FOUNDATION AND

VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> I'M EVAN SMITH.

HE'S A BEST SELLING,

CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED AUTHOR

OH HAS BEEN WRITING ABOUT

THE MEDIA BUSINESS FOR 25

YEARS, LAST 11 FOR THE "NEW

YORK TIMES".

HE'S DAVID CARR.

THIS IS OVERHEARD.

>> DAVID CARR, WELCOME.

>> NICE TO BE HERE.

>> ALWAYS NICE TO SEE YOU.

LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR

PAPER, THE "NEW YORK TIMES".

MANY OF US READ IT HERE AND

ELSEWHERE.

NEWS THE LAST COUPLE OF

WEEKS, YOU HAD SOME

DEPARTURES FROM PEOPLE WHO

HAD BEEN IN THE PAPER FOR A

LONG TIME, NAMES WE KNEW,

LEFT.

HOW ARE THE MOODS AROUND THE

OFFICE?

WHAT'S THE STATE OF THINGS

THERE?

>> I THINK PEOPLE SPEND FAR

TOO MUCH TIME WORRYING ABOUT

THE MOOD OF THE "NEW YORK

TIMES" AND NOT ENOUGH TIME

SORT OF LOOKING AT THE

PRODUCT.

WE ALL WOULD LIKE TO THINK

THAT WE'RE ABSOLUTELY

ESSENTIAL TO WHAT HAPPENS

THERE.

AND IF WE LOSE SOMEBODY AS

TALENTED AND AS GOOD AS JOHN

GEDDIS, OUR MANAGING EDITOR

AND JOHN LANDON WHO PLAYED A

SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN THE

JASON BLAIR INCIDENT, ALL OF

A SUDDEN THE WHEELS ARE

GOING TO FLY OFF THE CART.

NEVER HAPPENS.

NEWSPAPER IS -- IT'S AN

ORGANIC PROCESS THAT EMERGES

FROM THE SPACE BETWEEN

PEOPLE.

AND THE "NEW YORK TIMES", AS

I LEARNED QUICKLY WHEN I GOT

THERE, IS CERTAINLY -- DOES

NOT DEPEND ON ANY SINGLE

PERSON TO BE WHAT IT IS.

I'VE EXPERIENCE WHERE HAD --

I'VE BEEN UP AGAINST -- THEY

DON'T GENERALLY HAND ME

DEADLINE MATTERS, BUT A

COUPLE OF TIMES I'VE BEEN IN

TIGHT CORNERS AND REALLY UP

AGAINST IMPOSSIBLE ODDS IN

TERMS OF GETTING THE COPY

AND MAKING SURE IT'S

EFFICACIOUS AND HAVE PEOPLE

COME AND PICK ME UP.

>> THERE ARE ALWAYS NEW

PEOPLE WHO CAN DO THAT SORT

OF THING.

>> I WOULD READ IT IN THE

MORNING AND THINK IT'S HARD

TO BELIEVE THAT I WAS

INVOLVED ACTUALLY.

[LAUGHTER]

>> DON'T YOU THINK THE

REASON THAT WE'VE GOTTEN TO

PAY SUCH CLOSE ATTENTION TO

THINGS LIKE WHAT JUST

HAPPENED AT THE TIMES OR THE

DECISION BY TIME WARNER TO

SPIN OFF THE TIME MAGAZINE

GROUP IS BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN

REELING THESE MANY YEARS,

FIVE YEARS, 10 YEARS, MEDIA

BUSINESS HAS BEEN IN A STATE

OF GREAT FLUX AND WE'RE ALL

CURIOUS TO SEE HOW IT SHAKES

OUT.

WE CAN'T QUITE TELL YOU HOW

IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> YEAH.

I WOULD BE CAREFUL ABOUT

CONFLATING THOSE TWO THINGS.

YOU HAVE TIME WARNER, WHICH

IS STEVE ROSS TOOK AND BUILT

UP A BEHEMOTH OVER THE TERMS

OF MANY, MANY YEARS AND IT

TURNED INTO THE LARGEST

MEDIA COMPANY IN THE WORLD

AND WE'VE WATCHED IT THROW

OFF PARTS AGAIN AND AGAIN.

THE FACT THAT THE LAST PART

TO GO, TO BE STUNNED, IS THE

GROUP OF MAGAZINES THAT

BEARS ITS NAME.

>> YOU THINK THAT'S

SIGNIFICANT.

>> YEAH, IN MANHATTAN MEDIA.

AND THE ADJUSTMENTS THAT WE

MADE, IF YOU THINK OF JILL

ABRAM SON, WHO I KNOW YOU

KNOW.

>> BEEN ON THE SHOW.

>> SHE'S A NEWSMAN TO HER

CORE.

I THINK SHE'S GOT THE

CONFIDENCE OF THE ROOM

MOSTLY BECAUSE OF THE PAPER

SHE MAKES.

SHE'S BEEN A GREAT REPORTER.

SHE'S BEEN A GOOD EDITOR.

AND IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT

MAKING WHAT I WOULD SEE AS

SOME ADJUSTMENTS ON THE COST

SIDE, I THINK IT'S REALLY

HEALTHY TO BE UP TO THE TOP

AND LOOK AROUND.

THINK OF HOW HEALTHY THE

"NEW YORK TIMES" IS

STRUCTURED, WHICH IS IT'S

THE TOP OF A MOUNTAIN AT THE

TOP OF A MOUNTAIN

PROFESSIONALLY.

SO IT GATHERS ALL THESE

PEOPLE.

AND SO -- THERE'S THIS

TREMENDOUS PRESSURE AND AT A

CERTAIN POINT SOMETHING HAS

GOT TO GIVE SO YOU END UP

WITH A REAL THICK LAYER ON

TOP HERE BECAUSE NO ONE EVER

WANTS TO GO ANYWHERE.

AND SO NOBODY ENDS UP EVER

THROWN OVERBOARD OR URGED TO

MOVE ON.

IF YOU'RE HER AND -- I DON'T

KNOW.

IT'S KIND OF NAUGHTY TO TALK

ABOUT, BUT IT IS OVERHEARD.

>> IT IS.

[LAUGHTER]

AND WHEN YOU SAY GNAWTY I

BECOME ALL EARS AT THAT VERY

MOMENT.

>> BUT LET'S SAY THAT YOU'RE

RUNNING A LARGE ORGANIZATION

OF 1200 PEOPLE AND YOU GET

SIX, SEVEN YEARS TO HANG ON

TO THIS FLAMING BATON AND GO

AS FAR AS YOU WANT.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE SOME

STRATEGIC COST ADJUSTMENTS,

WHY NOT MAKE THEM AT THE TOP

TO START SO YOU CAN GET YOUR

GUYS IN, IN POSITION, AND

THEN HAVE -- THAT'S YOUR

GAME THAT YOU'RE GOING TO

RIDE WITH FOR AWHILE.

SO IF SHE EVER DOES HAVE TO

COME BACK TO THE ROOM AND

LOOK FOR ANY OTHER CUTS, WE

WON'T BE SAYING TO HER, AS

WE WOULD, WHAT ABOUT ALL

THESE FAT CATS MAKING ALL

THIS MONEY?

ABOUT WHAT ABOUT ALL THESE

BOSSES THAT YOU HAVE RUNNING

AROUND?

I THINK THE OPTICS ARE GOOD

FOR HER.

I'M NOT -- THAT'S JUST MY

OPINION, BUT IF IT WAS MY

STORE TO RUN, I DON'T THINK

I WOULD DO IT MUCH DIFFERENT

THAN SHE DID, EVEN THOUGH

THE FOLKS THAT WE HAD

REALLY, REALLY TALENTED

FOLKS.

>> LET ME TURN THIS AROUND

AND ASK YOU A BROADER

QUESTION, WHICH HAS THE

TIMES BEEN ABLE TO WEATHER

THE CHANGES TO THE MEDIA

BUSINESS BETTER THAN, IN

YOUR OPINION, OTHER

NEWSPAPERS AT ITS LEVEL OR

DOWN THE FOOD CHAIN SOME OF

THE REGIONAL AND STATE

PAPERS, THE BIG ONES.

ARE THE TIMES LESS

VULNERABLE TO THOSE CHANGES?

>> WHAT I SAY IS IT'S LESS

IMPORTANT THAN WHAT OUR

PAPER DOES.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, I GET

HAMBURGERS FOR MY FAMILY BY

WORKING FOR THE "NEW YORK

TIMES".

SO OF COURSE I'M GOING TO

SAY EVERYTHING IS HUNKY-DORY

AND GREAT.

I WOULD POINT TO SOME

SPECIFIC STRUCTURAL ISSUES

AND SORT OF -- YOU KNOW, IF

YOU LOOK BACK A COUPLE OF

YEARS AGO, WE OWED

$250 MILLION TO A MEXICAN

BILLIONAIRE.

PROBABLY NOT A GREAT GUY TO

OWE MONEY TOO.

JUST IN TERMS OF YOUR

CAPITAL STRUCTURE AND STUFF.

WE WERE -- SO HE LENT US

THAT MONEY, GREAT GUY, THANK

YOU, AT USURIOUS RATES AND

WE PAID THAT LOAN OFF EARLY.

WE HAVE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE

FACED SIGNIFICANT SECULAR,

MEANING BROAD INDUSTRIAL

CHANGES AND CYCLICAL MEANING

WHATEVER IS GOING ON WITH

THE ECONOMY.

HEAD WINDS IN TERMS OF

ADVERTISING AND LARGE PRINT

ENTERPRISES GENERALLY

MANEUVER BY PUSHING TWO

PEDALS.

ONE IS THE AD SIDE, THE

BUSINESS SIDE.

AND THE OTHER SIDE IS THE

CONSUMER SIDE, THE

CIRCULATION SIDE.

WE DECIDED TWO YEARS AGO

THIS WEEK TO TURN TOWARD THE

CONSUMERS AND SAY HOW'S

ABOUT SHOWING US SOME SUGAR?

HOW'S ABOUT YOU GET INVOLVED

HERE A LITTLE BIT?

WE HAVE 40 MILLION UNIQUES

ON THE WEB AND MANY PEOPLE

SAID WE WOULD DISAPPEAR FROM

THE ECOSYSTEM.

THAT THE FACT THAT THE WALL

WAS LEAKY WOULD MAKE US A

LAUGHING STOCK.

NOW WE HAVE OVER 240,000

DIGITAL CONSUMERS AND

HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF

DOLLARS IN REVENUE AND FOR

THE FIRST TIME IN OUR

HISTORY NOW CIRCULATION

REVENUES OUT RANK

ADVERTISING REVENUES, WHICH

IS A VERY SIGNAL MOMENT.

>> GETTING THE LAST LAUGH.

I KNOW THEY'VE TIGHTENED UP

THE POROUSNESS OR CLOSED UP

SOME OF THE POROUSNESS OF

THE PAY WALL WITHIN THE LAST

FEW MONTHS, BUT BY AND LARGE

WHAT THEY PUT INTO EFFECT

HAS WORKED.

>> I THINK PEOPLE HAVE BEEN

REALLY SURPRISED BY THE

LEVEL OF HOW WELL IT'S

WORKED.

AND IT'S BEEN GREAT FOR ME

PERSONALLY BECAUSE WHEN I

WAS AT SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST

TWO YEARS AGO ON THIS DATE,

IT WAS ALL THE THEOLOGIANS

RANTING AND THE RELIGIOUS

BELIEF AND THE SPIRITUAL

POWER OF FREE AND FOR ME

IT'S BEEN JUST A JOY TO

WATCH THAT THEY WERE WRONG

AND WE WERE RIGHT.

[LAUGHTER] AND THAT THAT

MAGIC BUNCH OF FREE READERS

THAT'S NOT GOING TO PAY

ANYTHING, THAT WILL NOT DRAW

MUCH IN TERMS OF

ADVERTISING, IS SOMEHOW

GOING TO TAKE TO YOU SOME

SAFE AND HAPPY PROMISED

LAND.

DIDN'T HAPPEN.

PART OF -- TO YOUR QUESTION,

I SHOULD ACTUALLY ANSWER IT.

I SEE THE NEWSPAPER BUSINESS

IN TWO SEGMENTS.

LARGE NATIONAL BRANDS, WALL

STREET JOURNAL, "NEW YORK

TIMES", FT GUARDIAN,

INTERNATIONAL BRANDS, DOING

PRETTY WELL BECAUSE IF

YOU'RE AN ENGLISH LANGUAGE

PAPER, THE SECOND AND THIRD

WORLD, IN ADDITION TO THE

FIRST WORLD, IS HATCHING

CUSTOMERS FOR YOU

EVERYWHERE.

AND BECAUSE YOU DON'T NEED A

TRUCK OR A PRINTING PRESS TO

GET WITH THEM, YOU CAN START

ACCESSING THOSE PEOPLE.

THE OTHER PART OF THE

BUSINESS DOING VERY WELL IS

IF YOU'RE THE KIND OF PAPER

WHERE PEOPLE WILL TEAR OUT A

PICTURE OF YOUR KID PLAYING

THIRD BASE FOR THE LOCAL

LITTLE LEAGUE TEAM AND

PUTTING IT ON THE

REFRIGERATOR, THE WEBSITE'S

NEVER GOING TO DO THAT FOR

YOU.

THE PHRASE I SAW YOUR KID IN

THE PAPER, THAT'S REALLY

MEANINGFUL.

AND THE COMMUNITY PAPERS

THAT HAVE A VERY CLOSE

RELATIONSHIP WITH THEIR

CUSTOMER AGREE IT'S A VAST

MIDDLE.

>> IT IS A VAST MIDDLE.

>> IT'S WHERE AMERICA STORES

ITS REPORTING HORSE POWERS.

>> WAS ANY OF THIS

PREVENTABLE, DAVID?

YOU'VE BEEN WRITING ABOUT IT

FOR A LONG TIME.

YOU'VE LOOKED AT IT FROM

ALMOST EVERY ANGLE.

AND YOU PROBABLY FORMULATED

AN OPINION ABOUT WHETHER

SOME OF THE THINGS THAT GOT

SOME OF THE PAPERS IN THE

VAST MIDDLE INTO TROUBLE

OVER THESE YEARS WERE BEYOND

THEIR CONTROL OR WHETHER IN

HINDSIGHT THEY COULD HAVE

PREVENTED THEM.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> IN RETROSPECT NOTHING

CHANGED, NOTHING CHANGED,

NOTHING CHANGED.

BOOM, EVERYTHING CHANGED.

AND THE LAST FIVE YEARS THE

NEWSPAPER BUSINESS HAS

SHRUNK BY HALF.

WE'VE LOST A LOT OF

REPORTERS, A LOT OF DAILIES.

AND WHEN NEWSPAPERS IN MID

SIZE MARKETS HAD THOSE

MONOPOLIES AND WERE LOOKING

FOR PLACES TO STOP ALL THE

MONEY THAT THEY WERE MAKING,

ONE OF THE THINGS THEY

PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN

DOING IS PUTTING MONEY INTO

TRANSFORMATION.

AND IT'S HARD WHEN YOU'RE --

WHEN YOU'RE GOING IN REVERSE

TO CHANGE THE WHEELS ON THE

CAR.

SO THERE WERE PEOPLE THAT

WERE SORT OF FORWARD

THINKING, BUT IT DIDN'T WORK

OUT FOR THEM.

THINK OF THE AMOUNT OF

INVESTMENT AND TIME THAT THE

WASHINGTON POST PUT IN THE

DIGITAL MATTERS.

AND HERE WE ARE LO THESE

MANY YEARS LATER AND I THINK

WE COULD AGREE THAT THEY

HAVEN'T REALLY ACCOMPLISHED

THAT MUCH.

>> NOT MUCH FARTHER AHEAD.

WHAT WAS THE BOOM?

YOU SAID NOTHING, NOTHING,

NOTHING, BOOM.

WHAT WAS THE BOOM?

DEFINE THE BOOM.

WHAT WAS THE PRECIPITATING

EVENT?

>> NEWSPAPERS MAKE THEIR --

WE MAKE OUR LIVING OFF OF --

SORT OF A NEWSPAPER STORY IS

WE'RE ON THE UNIVERSITY OF

TEXAS CAMPUS RIGHT NOW.

THOSE KIDS DON'T CARE ABOUT

NEWSPAPERS OTHER THAN THEIR

COLLEGE PAPER, WHICH IS AN

AMAZING ONE, GREAT ONE.

BUT THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT

OUR BUSINESS.

AND WE DON'T GENERALLY CATER

TO THEM IN THE OLDEN DAYS,

WHICH WEREN'T THAT LONG AGO.

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IS THEY

WOULD LEAVE COLLEGE, THEY

WOULD GET JOBS, THEY WOULD

REPRODUCE, THEY WOULD GO TO

IKEA.

THEY WOULD HAVE TO -- THEY

WOULD HAVE TO FIGURE OUT

WHERE TO SEND JOHNNIE TO

SCHOOL.

THEN WE WOULD GRAB 'EM

BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE

INFORMATIONAL NEEDS, THEY

WOULD HAVE MARKETING NEEDS.

NOW THEY GRADUATE, DO THEY

GET A JOB?

DO THEY GET MARRIED?

DO THEY HAVE A NEED FOR --

THERE'S PROBABLY A BLOG

ABOUT THE SCHOOL THAT THEIR

KID'S GOING TO GO TO AND

THEY PROBABLY ALREADY HAVE A

DIRECT MARKETING

RELATIONSHIP.

IKEA PROBABLY NODES WHAT

THEIR ZIP CODE IS AND HOW

THEY LIKE THEIR COFFEE

TABLES.

>> IKEA HAS CUT YOU OUT OF

THE SITUATION BY GOING

DIRECTLY TO THE CUSTOMER.

>> EVERY TIME I SEE A

SWEDISH PERSON I WANT TO

CHOKE 'EM [LAUGHTER]

>> VERY UPLIFTING THOUGHT.

YOU SPOKE AT IOWA STATE

UNIVERSITY IN THE LAST

COUPLE OF WEEKS.

>> YES, I DO.

>> YOU TALKED ABOUT THE

EXISTENTIAL SORT OF CRISES

THAT KIDS COMING OUT OF

SCHOOL FACE.

THEY GO OUT OF A WORLD

THAT'S VASTLY DIFFERENT FOR

THEIR GENERATION, LET ALONE

OUR GENERATION ENCOUNTERED.

IT'S DIFFERENT FROM EVERY

ANGLE.

HOWEVER YOU LOOK AT IT THE

WORLD HAS CHANGED.

>> I ENVY THEM.

>> YOU DO?

TELL ME WHY.

>> MY DAUGHTER IS IN OUR

BUSINESS AND SHE WORKS FOR

AN OUTFIT CALLED VICE, WHICH

IS A BROOKLYN BASED

MULTIMEDIA COMPANY.

AND SHE MADE THIS VIDEO

ABOUT THESE LITTLE

MICROORGANISMS THAT ARE

CALLED TARTAGRADES AND THEY

CAN SURVIVE IN OUTER SPACE

BECAUSE THEY CAN PULL

THEMSELVES INTO A BALL AND

SURVIVE IN EXTREMES OF

TEMPERATURE AND PRESSURE.

AND SHE FOUND THIS REALLY

POETIC, BEAUTIFUL, NATURAL.

IT WAS AN AMAZING STORY

TELLER.

AND SHE SENT ME THE VIDEO

AND, YOU KNOW, I DID WHAT

ALL DADS DO, WHICH IS HONEY,

THAT'S ADORABLE.

YOU'RE JUST THE BEST.

I'M SO PROUD OF YOU.

YOU MADE THIS GREAT VIDEO.

AND SHE PUT IT UP THE NEXT

DAY AND SAID I GOT

10 MILLION HITS ON YOUTUBE.

AND IT'S JUST LIKE, THINGS

ARE REALLY DIFFERENCE.

>> THIS IS A LITTLE

DIFFERENT.

[LAUGHTER].

>> THE AUDIENCE IS

UNLIMITED.

>> SO I THINK IN THAT

FRICTION FREE ATMOSPHERE

WHERE YOU ARE IN THE

EXCELLENCE OF YOUR CONTACT

ACHIEVE A BOUNDLESS SORT OF

RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR

AUDIENCE -- PLUS THINK OF

WHAT'S JUST EVEN IN MY

BACKPACK RIGHT NOW IN TERMS

OF REPORTING FIREPOWER.

IF I WAS GOING TO DO A STORY

ABOUT YOU, I HAVE ALL KNOWN

THOUGHT ABOUT YOU ONE CLICK

AWAY.

AND IF YOU SAID SOMETHING

INCONSISTENT, EVEN THOUGH

YOU NEVER DO, EVAN --

>> WHY WOULD I DO THAT?

>> OF COURSE NOT.

I WOULD BE ABLE TO CALL YOU

OUT ON THE SPOT.

IF I GOT DONE INTERVIEWING

YOU AND DID A PIECE -- I

JUST DID A PIECE ON ONE OF

THE GUYS THAT MADE SOUTH

PARK, MATT STONE.

I GOT DONE TALKING TO THEM

AND SAID DO YOU MIND MAKING

A LITTLE VIDEO.

WE MADE A LITTLE iPHONE

VIDEO THAT WENT UP.

THINK OF SOURCING.

WHEN I FIRST CAME IN TO THE

ROOM, IF YOU HAD A PHONE

NUMBER THEY COULD PICK IT

UP.

YOU COULD DOORSTEP THEM,

JUMP OUT OF THE BUSHES, I'M

HERE!

BUT THINK OF NOW YOU CAN

FIGURE OUT THE NOMENCLATURE

OF THEIR EMAIL.

YOU CAN FIND THEM ON LINKED

IN.

YOU'RE EVERYWHERE.

YOU'RE LIKE JASON IN A

HOCKEY MASK.

YOU JUST KEEP POPPING UP AND

POPPING UP.

>> AND THE LAYER THAT USED

TO PROTECT THEM HAVE REALLY

BEEN OBLITERATED BY OUR

INSTANT ACCESS TO THEM

THROUGH MANY OF THE FORMS

AND TECHNOLOGY YOU'RE

TALKING ABOUT.

>> AND YOU DEVELOP A MUCH

MORE INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP.

IF YOU'RE TRYING TO GET TO

SOMEBODY YOU MIGHT CC THE

FLACK, THE PR PERSON --

>> JUST TO GO THROUGH THE

FRONT DOOR.

>> BUT YOU'RE REALLY TALKING

TO THE WOMAN OR THE MAN YOU

WANT TO TALK TO.

>> DIRECTLY.

SO CRAFT HAS CHANGED IN MANY

OF THE WAYS YOU'RE TALKING

ABOUT.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT TWO

OTHER WAYS THAT I THINK OUR

WORLD HAS CHANGED AS IT

RELATES TO THE STATE OF THE

NEWSPAPER.

ONE IS THAT TWITTER IN

PARTICULAR, BUT SOCIAL MEDIA

GENERALLY HAVE CREATED AN

ENTIRELY DIFFERENT CHANNEL

FOR THE CONVERSATION ABOUT

WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE WORLD

TO TAKE PLACE.

PART OF IT IS A REFERRAL

CHANNEL, BUT PART OF IT IS A

REPORTING CHANNEL REALLY.

I KNOW YOU'RE A BIG TWITTER

AFICIONADO.

TWITTER IS LIKE THE

ASSOCIATED PRESS WIRE OF THE

CURRENT GENERATION, THE

CURRENT MEDIA CONSUMER

GENERATION BECAUSE WE FIND

OUT SO MUCH ON SOCIAL MEDIA

AND IT MIGHT CAUSE US TO GO

BACK TO NEWS SITES LIKE THE

"NEW YORK TIMES" OR WHATEVER

ELSE, BUT WE LEARN STUFF NOW

THROUGH A TOTALLY DIFFERENT

CHANNEL THAT DIDN'T EXIST

JUST A SHORT TIME AGO.

THAT SEEMS SIGNIFICANT.

>> IT'S REALLY SIGNIFICANT.

I MEAN, I -- I'M ALWAYS

CAREFUL NOT TO OVEREMPHASIZE

ITS SIGNIFICANCE BECAUSE

TWITTER IS KIND OF LIKE A

COASTAL SORT OF HOT HOUSE.

THOSE OF US IN THE MEDIA

LOVE THE TWITTER BECAUSE IT

HAS THIS DENSITY OF

INFORMATION BECAUSE PEOPLE

ARE ON IT AGAIN AND AGAIN.

BUT AS SOMEBODY IN THE

BUSINESS, THE ABILITY TO

KEEP AN EYE ON MY

COMPETITORS, TO STAY IN

NARRATIVE WITH PEOPLE, I

RESPECT OVER AND OVER.

THINK OF WHEN RSS FIRST CAME

IN AND OH, HERE IT IS, THE

10 STORIES I WANT TO BE

TRACKING.

NOW THINK OF THAT RSS AS

REALTIME ALWAYS ON, CURE

RATED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU OR

PEOPLE LIKE ME.

AND PEOPLE -- PEOPLE

UNFAMILIAR WITH TWITTER

DON'T REALIZE THAT THE

LENGTHS THAT IT CARRIES,

YEAH, YOU CAN PUT A LOT OF

INFORMATION ON 140

INFORMATION, BUT YOU CAN

POINT TOWARD VERY IMPORTANT

THINGS.

AND IF I FOLLOW PEOPLE I

FEEL LIKE I'M IN REALTIME

NARRATIVE AT THAT ABSOLUTE

MOMENT.

IT'S NOT PERFECT.

I STILL GET THE DAILY PAPER

AND IT'S PARTLY BECAUSE ALL

DAY LONG STUFF IS WHIZZING

BY AND IT'S GREAT.

I CAN CATCH UP ON THE NEWS

AT STARBUCKS AND WHAT'S

BOUNCING AT THAT INSTANCE.

THE NEXT DAY I ALWAYS GO,

WHAT WAS THAT?

>> WHAT HAPPENED?

>> WHAT HAPPENED?

AND SO WITH THE TIMES OR THE

WALL STREET JOURNAL, THEY'RE

DECIDING ON THE HIERARCHY OF

THESE ARE THE SIX OR SEVEN

MOST IMPORTANT STORIES.

>> WE SAY ARE THE MOST

IMPORTANT.

>> ARE THEY? PROBABLY NOT.

BUT I'M WILLING TO SAY OKAY?

YOU GUYS HAVE DECIDED WHAT'S

IMPORTANT.

AND IN THAT SENSE I THINK

WHEN YOU COME FROM MAGAZINES

YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING

IS GIVING PEOPLE, PUTTING A

FRAME AROUND EVENTS THAT

ADDS MEANING TO IT.

AND I DO THINK THAT DAILY

PAPER HAS MOVED MORE AND

MORE ADD ITS BEST TOWARD

HELPING YOU MAKE SENSE OF

THIS CONSTANT ALWAYS ON.

WHEN I FIRST GOT TO THE "NEW

YORK TIMES" I WOULD WATCH

THEM CHOOSE THOSE SIX OR

SEVEN STORIES.

I WOULD GO TO THE PAGE ONE

MEETING.

AGAIN, NOT CONSULTED, JUST

SITTING THERE.

POTTED PLANT BASICALLY.

[LAUGHTER]

AND I WOULD WATCH THE

STORIES SORT OF PIVOT AND

CHANGE AROUND THEM.

I WOULD SAY THIS IS

LUDICROUS THAT THEY'RE

TALKING ABOUT THESE AS IF

THEY'RE STATIC.

I'VE COME AROUND ON THAT.

I STILL GET THE JOURNAL AT

HOME.

I STILL GET --

>> THE COMBINATION OF THE

TRADITIONAL PAPER AND THE

CONSTANTLY INFLUX OF

REALTIME STUFF IS NOT A

BINARY CHOICE, IT'S

ADDITIVE, A AND B IN TERMS

OF YOU UNDERSTANDING WHAT'S

OUT THERE.

>> YEAH.

THERE'S A CHALLENGE THAT

GOES WITH IT, WHICH IS AM I

SO BUSY -- THIS ENDLESS

CYCLE OF PRODUCING AND

CONSUMING MEDIA LIKE NOT

THAT LONG AGO I WROTE

SOMETHING FOR A MAGAZINE

ABOUT NEAL YOUNG AND IT WAS

SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE 5,000

WORDS.

I THOUGHT I HAVEN'T HAD A

THOUGHT THAT WAS LONGER THAN

10 WORDS IN A LONG TIME.

[LAUGHTER]

AND JUST THE CURSOR IS JUST

LIKE BEEP, BEEP, BEEP.

LOOKING AT ME.

>> BUT YOU GOT IT DONE.

>> I SWEATED IT.

AND WHAT I THINK REPORTERS

CONFRONT -- I TALKED EARLIER

ABOUT HOW GREAT IT IS.

BUT THE POINT AT WHICH YOU

EITHER STOP PRODUCING MEDIA

AND START CONSUMING IT OR

STOP CONSUMING IT AND

PRODUCE IT, THINK OF SOUTH

BY SOUTHWEST AND BEING IN

THE MIDDLE OF THAT MALL

STROM.

BY THE END OF THIS WEEK THAT

PERSON THAT WILL KNOW THE

LEAST ABOUT SOUTH BY

SOUTHWEST WILL BE ME.

I'M IN THE THICK OF IT.

I HAVE NO IDEA.

>> HARD TO HAVE PERSPECTIVE

ON IT.

>> YOU HAVE TO PULL BACK A

LITTLE BIT.

I THINK IF YOU'RE A DIGITAL

NATIVE -- I'M OLDER THAN

DIRT, SO I'M LIKE AN

ADOPTER.

BUT IF YOU THINK OF SOMEONE

I WORK WITH LIKE BRYAN OR

AMY, WHERE THE NIGHT WHEN

OSAMA BIN LADEN WAS KILLED,

EARLY ON THERE WAS THIS

INDICATION THAT THERE WAS A

TWEET OUT OF ABAD ABAD THAT

GOT THINGS ROLLING AND I

THOUGHT OH MY GOSH, THIS WAS

A MEDIA STORY.

AND FOR A DAILY NEWSPAPER

REPORTER, YOU WANT TO SWIM

TOWARD WHATEVER HEAT THERE

IS.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> AND IN SEARCH OF THE

ELUSIVE MEDIA ANGLE.

SO I START LOOKING ON THE

WEB AND PRINTING THIS OUT

AND GATHERING THIS IN, AND

JUST ABOUT THE TIME I'M

GOING TO FILE WE HAVE A

MEDIA SITE AT THE "NEW YORK

TIMES" CALLED MEDIA DECODER.

I'M LIKE SOMEBODY SHOULD

WRITE A BLOG POST ABOUT

THIS.

I OPEN IT UP, MY COLLEAGUE

BRYAN HAS 900 WORDS ALREADY

THERE.

AND WHAT HE WAS DOING,

TYPING, PULLING IN, SEEING,

PULLING IN.

AND THAT IS NOT REALLY BAKED

INTO ME.

>> A TALL MICROORGANISM OF

SOMEBODY OF HIS SORT IS A

DIFFERENT THING.

>> FOR AWHILE I COULDN'T

WRITE A COLUMN UNTIL UNLESS

I HAD A FOLDER THE SIZE OF A

HAM SANDWICH WITH ALL MY

IMPORTANT PAPERS ALL MARKED

UP WITH YELLOW STICKIES.

AND BROTHER, THAT ISN'T

GOING TO GET IT.

IT ISN'T GOING TO WORK.

>> YOUR INDIVIDUAL BRAND IS

QUITE POWERFUL.

AND NOT LONG AGO INDIVIDUAL

BRANDS PROBABLY DISCOURAGED

THEIR REPORTERS FROM

STEPPING OUT AS INDIVIDUAL

BRANDS.

THE INSTITUTIONAL BRAND

ALWAYS SUPERCEDED THE

INDIVIDUAL BRAND.

IT NOW SEEMS THAT THE

INDIVIDUAL BRAND AT YOURS AT

PAPERS ARE THE ROCKET

BOOSTER THAT CARRY THE

INSTITUTIONAL BRAND ALONG.

THAT FEELS LIKE A PRETTY

SIGNIFICANT CHANGE TO ME.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT IT?

>> I WORKED REAL HARD ON

FITTING IN AT THE "NEW YORK

TIMES" BEFORE I WORKED ON

STICKING OUT.

AND BY FITTING IN I MEAN NOT

ENDING UP ON THE CORRECTIONS

PAGE, NOT GETTING IN A BUNCH

OF JACKPOTS.

NOT BEING KNOWN AS A BAD

COLLEAGUE.

I DO THINK THAT INDIVIDUAL

BRANDS, THAT MORE AND MORE

YOU SEE IN MEDIA COMPANIES,

AS YOU SAY, THEY BECOME

FEDERATIONS OF DIFFERENT

BRANDS.

BUT THINK IF I JUST WALKED

OUT THERE WITH THE TIP CUP.

YOU KNOW, I'M NOT MAUREEN

DOWD, I'M NOT FRANK RICH.

I'M LIKE A TIER UNDERNEATH

THAT.

AND IT'S GOOD THAT I DO

VIDEO AND I BLOG AND -- BUT

IF MY LAST NAME WAS NOT "NEW

YORK TIMES", I WONDER HOW

FANCY THAT BRAND S I THINK

PART OF THE REASON THAT MY

BRAND WORKS, THAT I HAVE A

BRAND AT ALL IS THAT GUY IS

REALLY WEIRD.

I CAN'T BELIEVE HE WORKS AT

THE "NEW YORK TIMES".

[LAUGHTER]

>>

SO THESE TWO THINGS

TOGETHER, IF YOU PULL ONE OR

THE OTHER AWAY, I THINK I'M

JUST --

>> DAVID CARR OF THE "NEW

YORK TIMES" TRUMPS DAVID

CARR WAS DENVER POST.

>> OR DAVID CARR OF

DAVIDCARR.COM.

>> WELL, WE APPRECIATE WHO

YOU ARE.

WE APPRECIATE YOU COMING AND

SITTING WITH US.

>> A PLEASURE.

>> THANK YOU.

DAVID CARR [APPLAUSE]

>> WE'D LOVE TO HAVE YOU

JOIN US IN THE STUDIO.

VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT

KLRU.ORG/OVERHEARD TO FIND

INVITATIONS TO INTERVIEWS, Q

AND AS WITH OUR AUDIENCE AND

GUESTS AN AN ARCHIVE OF PAST

EPISODES.

>> I WRITE ABOUT NEWSPAPERS

AND THEY'RE KIND OF BORING.

I MEAN, IT'S A BUNCH OF

WHITE PEOPLE IN CUBES

TYPING.

IT'S NOT LIKE -- I DON'T

KNOW.

IT'S NOT ARGO, I'VE JUST GOT

TO SAY.

>> FUNDING FOR OVERHEARD

WITH EVAN SMITH IS PROVIDED

IN PART BY THE MATTSSON

MCHALE FOUNDATION IN SUPPORT

OF PUBLIC TELEVISION.

ALSO BY MFI FOUNDATION,

IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF

LIFE WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY.

AND FROM THE TEXAS BOARD OF

LEGAL SPECIALIZATION, BOARD

CERTIFIED ATTORNEYS IN YOUR

COMMUNITY.

EXPERIENCED, RESPECTED AND

TESTED.

ALSO BY HILLCO PARTNERS,

TEXAS GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS

CONSULTANCY AND IT'S GLOBAL

HEALTH CARE CONSULTING

BUSINESS UNIT, HILLCO

HEALTH.

AND BY THE ALICE KLEBERG

REYNOLDS FOUNDATION, AND

VIEWERS LIKE YOU, THANK YOU.

>> THIS WEEK ON OVERHEARD,

"NEW YORK TIMES" COLUMNIST

DAVID CARR.

>> IF YOU'RE THE KIND OF

PAPER WHERE PEOPLE WILL TEAR

OUT A PICTURE OF THEIR KID

PLAYING THIRD BASE FOR THE

LOCAL LITTLE LEAGUE TEAM AND

PUT IT ON THE REFRIGERATOR,

THE WEBSITE IS NEVER GOING

ON DO THAT FOR YOU.

I THINK PART OF THE REASON

THAT MY BRAND WORKS, THAT I

HAVE A BRAND AT ALL, IS LIKE

THAT GUY'S REALLY WEIRD.

I CAN'T BELIEVE HE WORKS AT

THE "NEW YORK TIMES".