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[FEMALE ANNOUNCER] Funding 
for Overheard with Evan Smith

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is provided in part by

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HillCo Partners, a Texas 
government affairs consultancy,

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the Alice Kleberg 
Reynolds Foundation,

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Claire and Carl Stuart,

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and by Entergy.

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[EVAN SMITH] I'm Evan Smith.

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She's a prolific, 
Grammy award-winning 
singer, songwriter,

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activist, and 
entrepreneur whose memoir

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"No Walls and the Recurring 
Dream" has just been published.

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She's Ani DiFranco. 
This is Overheard.

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(gentle instrumental music)

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[SMITH] Let's be honest, is 
this about the ability to learn

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or is this about the experience

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of not having been 
taught properly?

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How have have you 
avoided what has befallen

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other nations in 
Africa and Asia?

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And you could say that 
he'd made his own bed,

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but you caused him 
to sleep in it.

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You know, you saw a problem 
and over time took it on.

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(people laughing)

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Let's start with the sizzle

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before we get to the steak.

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Are you gonna run for president?

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I think I just got an 
F from you, actually.

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This is Overheard.

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(audience applauding)

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[SMITH] Ani DiFranco, welcome.

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[ANI DIFRANCO] Thank you.

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[SMITH] Congratulations 
on the book.

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[DIFRANCO] Thanks very much.

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[SMITH] As we sit here, 
it's newly a best seller.

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[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

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[SMITH] Isn't that amazing?

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[DIFRANCO] That is amazing.

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I'm amazed.

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[SMITH] On the best seller 
list with Michelle Obama.

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[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

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[SMITH] Anna 
Quindlen, Jill Biden.

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[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

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[SMITH] Right, well just, 
take a picture, right?

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[DIFRANCO] Yeah, 
that, yeah, yeah.

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[SMITH] Capture that moment.

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[DIFRANCO] I should.

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[SMITH] Why did you 
decide to write a book?

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I thought, Ani 
DiFranco has a memoir,

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haven't we heard her story,

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(laughing)

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over 19 records, 20 records.

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Isn't every record 
sort of a memoir?

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Isn't it sort of your story?

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[DIFRANCO] Well, not exactly.

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I mean, those are 
songs, you know.

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I definitely draw 
from my experience,

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but, you know,

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it's storytelling.

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[SMITH] It's right for us

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to see some of you 
in those songs.

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[DIFRANCO] Yes, yes 
indeed, but it's not

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as literal as that is.

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[SMITH] Right, yeah.

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[DIFRANCO] That's for sure.

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[SMITH] What was the 
catalyst for this book?

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Why decide to do this now?

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[DIFRANCO] Honestly, 
I have a couple kids,

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and, this road doggin'

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doesn't mesh well with momming,

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and, you know.

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[SMITH] Right.

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[DIFRANCO] So I needed 
to change it up.

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I needed to think 
of some way to work

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and not always be gone.

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[SMITH] Right, so it's 
a practical decision.

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[DIFRANCO] Yeah, yeah.

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[SMITH] On your part.

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[DIFRANCO] Kind of a 
decision that started with,

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you know, being a mom.

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[SMITH] Right.

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[DIFRANCO] And also, just 
needing a writing challenge

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after hundreds of 
songs, you know--

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[SMITH] Talk about that.

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I assume that writing 
songs is hard, right,

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a challenge in its own way.

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[DIFRANCO] Sure, yeah.

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[SMITH] But this was much more

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of a challenge in the long form.

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[DIFRANCO] Yeah, for me, I 
never did this before, you know.

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I mean have, I have 
a groove with songs

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and I know how it works, 
or how it works for me.

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And this was scary.

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This was, it fit the 
bill for a challenge.

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There were many, and 
in terms of writing,

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it's just such a 
different process.

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I mean it couldn't 
be more different.

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It's funny to me they're 
both writing, you know,

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'cause songs are like,

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an event, you know,

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it's something 
just comes through,

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you align yourself,

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and something comes through.

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And this was like 
whittling, you know.

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It was just like 
sitting there for years,

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just not really 
sure in any moment,

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if I'm on track or off track,

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or can I do this, or, yeah.

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[SMITH] How much of 
this had you kept,

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in one form or another,

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on paper, or somewhere, before,

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or did you basically 
start with a blank slate

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and say I'm gonna tell my story,

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and have to go back 
and essentially rebuild 
and reconstruct?

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[DIFRANCO] Tabula rasa.

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[SMITH] Seriously?

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[DIFRANCO] I just, 
yeah, and of course,

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the first hurdle is memory.

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[SMITH] Right.

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[DIFRANCO] You know?

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[SMITH] Yeah.

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It's so funny when I 
started this project,

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everyone I knew was like,

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oh, I could never 
write a memoir,

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I don't remember anything.

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It's like (stammering).

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[SMITH] Same.

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[DIFRANCO] Same.

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[SMITH] We're all 
getting older, right?

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[DIFRANCO] Yeah, seriously.

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[SMITH] Many years have passed.

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[DIFRANCO] Yeah, so that 
in itself was an endeavor.

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[SMITH] Right.

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[DIFRANCO] You know, just 
trying to find things,

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and then, oh, there's another 
thing under that thing,

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and right, you know, and yeah,

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trying to put yourself back in 
a whole other life and time.

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[SMITH] Did you go back, 
Ani, and talk to the people

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who you ran with in those days

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to try to get them 
to tell you stories,

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or to fact-check you, 
or to help you, maybe,

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remember things yourself?

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[DIFRANCO] I thought 
that I was gonna.

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That was my plan.

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[SMITH] But you didn't do it?

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[DIFRANCO] Not really.

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[SMITH] 'Cause it's remarkable,

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the stories that you 
tell are very detailed.

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They seem to be very 
present in your mind.

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If it was hard for 
you to access them,

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it doesn't show up in the pages.

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[DIFRANCO] Oh, sweet.

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[SMITH] Yeah.

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[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

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(audience laughing)

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I gotcha fooled.

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[SMITH] Yeah, okay, good, well.

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[DIFRANCO] No, I mean, 
I do have a, you know,

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I mean, my memory works like 
I know a lot of people's

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where it's, you don't remember

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the facts and the figures,

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but you remember moments, 
scenes, you know, feelings,

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and even dialogue. I 
have a memory for words

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because of my life and 
songwriting, memorizing singing.

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So, I have sort of a 
photographic sonographic memory.

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[SMITH] Yeah.

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[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

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[SMITH] Yeah, well, very helpful

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in a moment like 
this, certainly.

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So the no walls in 
the title refers to,

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the home you grew up 
in, at least partly,

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which literally had no walls,

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except for the walls 
on the outside.

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[DIFRANCO] Yeah, 
yeah, well, yep,

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this project is 
way more literal,

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so I thought I'd start 
super literal, yeah,

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there were, my parents, my 
mother was an architect,

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and my father an engineer,

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and they designed the 
house I grew up in,

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which was a carriage house,

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and they, yeah, they, 
they, there were no walls.

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There was one room 
on the first floor,

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and one room on 
the second floor.

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I mean, there was a bathroom 
with walls around it,

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but that was it.

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[SMITH] And that was it.

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[DIFRANCO] Otherwise, 
we were right there

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in each other's faces.

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Very intimate.

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[SMITH] Your parents were

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extraordinarily 
accomplished people.

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They met at MIT. Right?

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[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

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[SMITH] This is in 
north Buffalo, New York,

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so western New York.

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[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

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[SMITH] And I 
actually, you know,

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we had the conversation

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before we came out 
here about Buffalo.

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Buffalo's such a great place.

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It's such an interesting place.

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It's such a, it's very 
alive in your mind, right?

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[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

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[SMITH] It comes across, really,

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in an interesting 
way in this book.

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[DIFRANCO] It's nice 
to hear you say that.

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Yeah, it's a city with history.

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[SMITH] Yeah.

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[DIFRANCO] You know, so, 
I always find the places

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with longer histories 
to be interesting.

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[SMITH] Yeah.

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[DIFRANCO] You know, 
you can just feel it.

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And a lot of 
characters, a lot of,

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yeah, it's a working class city.

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There's a lot of 
immigrant populations,

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and, yeah, it's an 
interesting place.

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[SMITH] Would your 
story be different

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if it were set somewhere else,

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if you had grown 
up someplace else?

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[DIFRANCO] I'm sure.

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[SMITH] Yeah.

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[DIFRANCO] I mean, I always,

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the first thing I always 
ask somebody I meet

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is where are you from?

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'Cause there's something 
very deep about that.

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[SMITH] Well, we're 
all from someplace,

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and our lives are shaped 
by where we came from.

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[DIFRANCO] Indeed.

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[SMITH] And by who raised us.

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[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

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[SMITH] And again, 
back to your parents,

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your parents are very 
important characters

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in this story.

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[DIFRANCO] Yeah, they, I mean,

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they're very important 
characters in my life.

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Even though my family, kind of,

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dissipated, early on in my life,

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my mother's, and father's, 
effect was pretty profound.

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I mean, I think I got my shtick 
from my mother, completely.

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[SMITH] Yeah, yeah.

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[DIFRANCO] You know?

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[SMITH] Talk about her, what 
do you remember about her?

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[DIFRANCO] I mean she's 
not musical, per se,

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but super creative and engaging,

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and, you know, she's 
the crazy hat lady

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at the party, you know, and uh--

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[SMITH] Very independent, 
kinda goes her own way.

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[DIFRANCO] Independent.

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[SMITH] Which is obviously,

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and we'll talk about 
this in a second,

248
00:07:39,666 --> 00:07:41,000
but independence is really 
the narrative through line

249
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:42,633
of this book and of 
your story, isn't it?

250
00:07:42,633 --> 00:07:44,266
[DIFRANCO] True, yeah.

251
00:07:44,266 --> 00:07:46,300
[SMITH] Right, taking control 
of yourself and your life.

252
00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:48,233
Your love of music also

253
00:07:48,233 --> 00:07:50,166
happened as a kid 
growing up in Buffalo.

254
00:07:50,166 --> 00:07:51,133
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

255
00:07:51,133 --> 00:07:52,566
[SMITH] Right?

256
00:07:52,566 --> 00:07:53,833
[DIFRANCO] Yeah, I needed 
an outlet, you know,

257
00:07:53,833 --> 00:07:58,633
troubled family, 
stress to the system,

258
00:07:58,633 --> 00:08:03,033
so, like any kid, any 
human, I needed an outlet.

259
00:08:03,033 --> 00:08:03,966
[SMITH] Yeah.

260
00:08:03,966 --> 00:08:04,900
[DIFRANCO] So in the beginning,

261
00:08:04,900 --> 00:08:07,133
I was dancing, I was painting,

262
00:08:07,133 --> 00:08:11,000
I was anything I could, you 
know, express myself with.

263
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,166
But music, won.

264
00:08:13,166 --> 00:08:14,400
[SMITH] What kind of music,

265
00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,000
before you were 
playing yourself,

266
00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,100
interested you, when 
you listened to music?

267
00:08:19,033 --> 00:08:20,533
[DIFRANCO] Well--

268
00:08:20,533 --> 00:08:21,466
[SMITH] 'Cause I know you've 
had many influences over time,

269
00:08:21,466 --> 00:08:23,366
Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger.

270
00:08:23,366 --> 00:08:24,300
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

271
00:08:24,300 --> 00:08:25,033
[SMITH] Joan Armatrading.

272
00:08:25,033 --> 00:08:26,233
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

273
00:08:26,233 --> 00:08:27,433
[SMITH] There were a 
lot of people whose work

274
00:08:27,433 --> 00:08:28,233
is obviously evident 
in your own work later,

275
00:08:28,233 --> 00:08:29,700
who influenced you,

276
00:08:29,700 --> 00:08:31,200
but what did you like 
when you were growing up--

277
00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,033
[DIFRANCO] Yeah, early on, 
the only recorded music

278
00:08:34,033 --> 00:08:36,233
that I heard was my 
father's records,

279
00:08:36,233 --> 00:08:38,966
and he was an Italian immigrant,

280
00:08:38,966 --> 00:08:42,200
and he loved all 
things American.

281
00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,100
So his records were, I mean,

282
00:08:45,100 --> 00:08:47,400
Aaron Copland, John Fahey.

283
00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:48,966
[SMITH] I mean, 
classically American stuff.

284
00:08:48,966 --> 00:08:49,966
[DIFRANCO] Yes, yeah.

285
00:08:49,966 --> 00:08:51,100
[SMITH] Right?

286
00:08:51,100 --> 00:08:52,833
[DIFRANCO] Yes, 
celebratorily American.

287
00:08:52,833 --> 00:08:55,533
You know, Americana, 
before it was cool.

288
00:08:55,533 --> 00:09:00,500
Yeah, John Fahey, you 
know, the guitarist,

289
00:09:00,500 --> 00:09:05,400
that kind of, uh, you know, 
alcoholic, uh, character,

290
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,400
who made these instrumental 
acoustic guitar records.

291
00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,833
I think his playing 
had a deep, subliminal,

292
00:09:12,833 --> 00:09:14,966
effect very early on for me.

293
00:09:14,966 --> 00:09:16,300
There were Blue Note Records,

294
00:09:16,300 --> 00:09:19,600
there were Smithsonian 
Recordings, you know.

295
00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,300
[SMITH] So you took 
lessons, again I'm thinking

296
00:09:21,300 --> 00:09:24,533
it's like from the book, 
it's like nine, 10, right?

297
00:09:24,533 --> 00:09:25,733
[DIFRANCO] Yeah, yeah.

298
00:09:25,733 --> 00:09:27,233
[SMITH] But then 
not long after that,

299
00:09:27,233 --> 00:09:30,066
you, and I believe it was the 
person who was your teacher,

300
00:09:30,066 --> 00:09:33,833
you go out and start to 
perform with that person.

301
00:09:33,833 --> 00:09:34,766
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

302
00:09:34,766 --> 00:09:36,200
[SMITH] What was that like?

303
00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:37,000
So you're performing, 
probably out on the street,

304
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,633
at 13, 12, 13, 14?

305
00:09:38,633 --> 00:09:40,100
[DIFRANCO] Yep.

306
00:09:40,100 --> 00:09:42,733
On the street even, you know, 
coffee houses, even, bars.

307
00:09:42,733 --> 00:09:45,266
He just took me under his wing.

308
00:09:45,266 --> 00:09:46,633
His name was Michael Meldrum,

309
00:09:46,633 --> 00:09:50,833
and he was a troubadour 
about Buffalo, and, um--

310
00:09:50,833 --> 00:09:52,566
[SMITH] He ends up being a 
pretty significant character

311
00:09:52,566 --> 00:09:53,566
in your story, right?

312
00:09:53,566 --> 00:09:54,800
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

313
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:55,966
[SMITH] I mean, 
but for that time,

314
00:09:55,966 --> 00:09:57,433
this might have turned 
out differently.

315
00:09:57,433 --> 00:10:00,933
[DIFRANCO] Yeah, he really, 
sort of, gifted me with my path,

316
00:10:00,933 --> 00:10:04,966
you know, he introduced me 
to the job of folk singer.

317
00:10:04,966 --> 00:10:08,133
[SMITH] Yeah, so I'm thinking 
about the time of all this.

318
00:10:08,133 --> 00:10:09,800
So you're 48 now?

319
00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:11,033
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

320
00:10:11,033 --> 00:10:12,900
[SMITH] So go back 
to when you were 14,

321
00:10:12,900 --> 00:10:14,733
so we're talking 
about the mid-1980s,

322
00:10:14,733 --> 00:10:18,633
the concept of the singer 
songwriter, and of folk music,

323
00:10:18,633 --> 00:10:20,333
it had kind of come and gone,

324
00:10:20,333 --> 00:10:23,200
and had not really come 
back, in that respect--

325
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:24,766
[DIFRANCO] Yeah, it 
was way out of fashion.

326
00:10:24,766 --> 00:10:26,000
(laughing)

327
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,466
[SMITH] Right, it was 
way out of fashion.

328
00:10:27,466 --> 00:10:28,800
So, it's interesting to me that 
that's what interested you,

329
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,000
you gravitated toward,

330
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,566
and you were able to 
make a life doing that,

331
00:10:31,566 --> 00:10:34,133
because it was not 
a certainty that

332
00:10:34,133 --> 00:10:36,166
that would be something 
that would work out, right?

333
00:10:36,166 --> 00:10:39,433
[DIFRANCO] No, and it's funny, 
just to even, for you to ask,

334
00:10:39,433 --> 00:10:42,766
like what music did I, 
you know, listen to,

335
00:10:42,766 --> 00:10:46,500
as in, you know, 
recordings, like consume.

336
00:10:46,500 --> 00:10:48,833
And so, yeah for me,

337
00:10:48,833 --> 00:10:50,966
there was my father's 
records really early on,

338
00:10:50,966 --> 00:10:54,400
but as soon as Michael came 
into my life at the age of nine,

339
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,100
music was, not something you 
buy, it's something you do.

340
00:10:58,100 --> 00:10:59,400
[SMITH] You make.

341
00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:00,333
[DIFRANCO] Something 
you make, together.

342
00:11:00,333 --> 00:11:01,866
[SMITH] Yeah.

343
00:11:01,866 --> 00:11:04,033
[DIFRANCO] Yeah, and I'm so 
grateful for that experience

344
00:11:04,033 --> 00:11:05,266
coming really early on.

345
00:11:05,266 --> 00:11:08,200
Music is a thing you do 
when you get together.

346
00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:09,033
[SMITH] Right.

347
00:11:09,033 --> 00:11:10,566
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

348
00:11:10,566 --> 00:11:14,933
[SMITH] I wanna jump ahead to, 
your first record is in 1990?

349
00:11:14,933 --> 00:11:16,433
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

350
00:11:16,433 --> 00:11:17,866
[SMITH] So you're 18 years old 
when this record comes out?

351
00:11:17,866 --> 00:11:19,400
[DIFRANCO] Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

352
00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:20,900
[SMITH] And not long after that,

353
00:11:20,900 --> 00:11:23,433
you make the decision that 
the music business needs

354
00:11:23,433 --> 00:11:25,533
to be overthrown, or disrupted.

355
00:11:25,533 --> 00:11:26,366
(laughing)

356
00:11:26,366 --> 00:11:27,533
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

357
00:11:27,533 --> 00:11:28,333
[SMITH] And you 
start Righteous Babe,

358
00:11:28,333 --> 00:11:29,700
which is your own label,

359
00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:32,000
which persists to 
this day as a home

360
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,033
for a lot of musicians like you.

361
00:11:34,033 --> 00:11:35,533
[DIFRANCO] Still kickin'.

362
00:11:35,533 --> 00:11:38,300
[SMITH] Still kickin' and, 
again, like folk music,

363
00:11:38,300 --> 00:11:39,766
or like being a 
singer-songwriter,

364
00:11:39,766 --> 00:11:42,700
you were a little bit 
out ahead of the fashion.

365
00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:44,300
The disruption of 
the music business

366
00:11:44,300 --> 00:11:46,400
had not really 
begun at that point.

367
00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:47,633
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

368
00:11:47,633 --> 00:11:48,833
[SMITH] You were out 
ahead of everybody else

369
00:11:48,833 --> 00:11:49,633
in rebelling against 
the old order.

370
00:11:49,633 --> 00:11:51,100
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

371
00:11:51,100 --> 00:11:52,366
[SMITH] Can you talk a little 
bit about your mindset,

372
00:11:52,366 --> 00:11:54,566
what drove you to take 
control, and to do that

373
00:11:54,566 --> 00:11:56,066
because it was not, again,

374
00:11:56,066 --> 00:11:57,633
no guarantee of 
succeeding at that.

375
00:11:57,633 --> 00:12:00,233
[DIFRANCO] Yeah, yeah, I talk 
about it a little in the book.

376
00:12:00,233 --> 00:12:01,633
[SMITH] Right.

377
00:12:01,633 --> 00:12:05,300
[DIFRANCO] I think that my goal,

378
00:12:05,300 --> 00:12:08,600
was to connect, you 
know, with people,

379
00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,333
and songs were a way

380
00:12:12,333 --> 00:12:17,300
of opening myself and making 
myself completely vulnerable.

381
00:12:17,300 --> 00:12:19,400
And then when somebody 
would join me there,

382
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,933
you know, and share 
that moment with me,

383
00:12:21,933 --> 00:12:24,933
that was so fulfilling to me.

384
00:12:24,933 --> 00:12:26,466
That's what I was searching for.

385
00:12:26,466 --> 00:12:29,933
So, that I just, I think, 
you know, it's not that I,

386
00:12:29,933 --> 00:12:31,933
the thought about all this,

387
00:12:31,933 --> 00:12:34,566
I just felt fulfilled.

388
00:12:34,566 --> 00:12:35,700
[SMITH] Yeah.

389
00:12:35,700 --> 00:12:37,366
[DIFRANCO] Even playing 
for five people,

390
00:12:37,366 --> 00:12:41,500
if, you know, if they would 
really go there with me,

391
00:12:41,500 --> 00:12:42,833
that was all I needed.

392
00:12:42,833 --> 00:12:45,433
So when people started to come,

393
00:12:45,433 --> 00:12:49,633
you know, labels, you 
know, come with interest.

394
00:12:49,633 --> 00:12:51,600
[SMITH] Any success, they're 
right on top of you, right?

395
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:52,900
[DIFRANCO] Yep.

396
00:12:52,900 --> 00:12:54,133
[SMITH] They wanna have 
a piece of that, right.

397
00:12:54,133 --> 00:12:55,866
[DIFRANCO] Yep, they, 
you know, sort of,

398
00:12:55,866 --> 00:12:57,300
word started getting out,

399
00:12:57,300 --> 00:13:00,900
people started getting 
interested in maybe signing me

400
00:13:00,900 --> 00:13:02,733
when I was really young,

401
00:13:02,733 --> 00:13:05,433
and, I don't know, 
for some reason,

402
00:13:05,433 --> 00:13:06,666
as a young person,

403
00:13:06,666 --> 00:13:08,766
well, first of all, I 
was very idealistic,

404
00:13:08,766 --> 00:13:12,566
and not impressed with the 
sort of capitalist credo,

405
00:13:12,566 --> 00:13:16,466
you know, and not sure that,

406
00:13:16,466 --> 00:13:19,700
that partnering with 
profit-motivated people

407
00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:21,933
was right for my mission.

408
00:13:21,933 --> 00:13:22,766
[SMITH] Yeah.

409
00:13:22,766 --> 00:13:24,300
[DIFRANCO] You know.

410
00:13:24,300 --> 00:13:27,333
And also, once again, 
what I was trying to do,

411
00:13:27,333 --> 00:13:29,200
I was doing.

412
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,800
And I didn't, I just 
didn't have that longing

413
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,866
that maybe a lot of 
other young people do,

414
00:13:36,866 --> 00:13:38,633
for the fame and the fortune.

415
00:13:38,633 --> 00:13:42,500
I just wanted somebody to 
be my friend, right now.

416
00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:43,666
[SMITH] But I 
appreciate the fact

417
00:13:43,666 --> 00:13:44,600
that you were able to resist,

418
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:45,533
at a relatively young age,

419
00:13:45,533 --> 00:13:47,333
the temptation to give up

420
00:13:47,333 --> 00:13:49,500
that independence 
and that control,

421
00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:53,366
to chase dollars or to 
chase being a celebrity.

422
00:13:53,366 --> 00:13:56,333
The music and the mission, 
as you just defined it,

423
00:13:56,333 --> 00:13:58,033
of your art was more 
important to you

424
00:13:58,033 --> 00:13:59,466
than any conventional success.

425
00:13:59,466 --> 00:14:01,300
And so you just 
held that at bay.

426
00:14:01,300 --> 00:14:02,533
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

427
00:14:02,533 --> 00:14:04,033
[SMITH] But you didn't 
just hold it at bay,

428
00:14:04,033 --> 00:14:06,100
you said I'm gonna create 
my own means to do this.

429
00:14:06,100 --> 00:14:08,833
Now, we skipped over the 
part of your personal story

430
00:14:08,833 --> 00:14:11,566
where you are emancipated 
at a young age.

431
00:14:11,566 --> 00:14:13,000
Your family leaves Buffalo,

432
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,666
moves to Connecticut, right?

433
00:14:14,666 --> 00:14:16,100
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

434
00:14:16,100 --> 00:14:17,733
[SMITH] You move back to 
Buffalo, and around this time

435
00:14:17,733 --> 00:14:20,133
you declare yourself 
an emancipated minor.

436
00:14:20,133 --> 00:14:21,066
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

437
00:14:21,066 --> 00:14:22,466
[SMITH] You have always said

438
00:14:22,466 --> 00:14:24,333
I'm gonna do this 
myself, haven't you?

439
00:14:24,333 --> 00:14:25,300
That's the thing.

440
00:14:25,300 --> 00:14:26,533
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

441
00:14:26,533 --> 00:14:27,966
[SMITH] Again, that's 
the narrative thread

442
00:14:27,966 --> 00:14:29,200
through this whole

443
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:30,833
story is I'm gonna 
take responsibility.

444
00:14:30,833 --> 00:14:32,933
I'm not gonna let anybody tell 
me how I have to do things.

445
00:14:32,933 --> 00:14:34,266
I'm gonna do this myself.

446
00:14:34,266 --> 00:14:35,200
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

447
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:36,733
[SMITH] It's very consistent.

448
00:14:36,733 --> 00:14:39,633
[DIFRANCO] Yeah, and also 
just practical, you know,

449
00:14:39,633 --> 00:14:41,733
my family was kind of a mess,

450
00:14:41,733 --> 00:14:43,000
and then I'm living with my mom,

451
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,733
and then my mom takes 
a job in Connecticut,

452
00:14:45,733 --> 00:14:47,733
and living in rural 
Connecticut, you know,

453
00:14:47,733 --> 00:14:49,233
but by this time I'm 15.

454
00:14:49,233 --> 00:14:52,333
I got gigs, I got friends, 
I got things to do.

455
00:14:52,333 --> 00:14:54,300
[SMITH] You're going 
back, that's it. Yeah.

456
00:14:54,300 --> 00:14:55,533
(people laughing)

457
00:14:55,533 --> 00:14:57,266
[DIFRANCO] So yeah, I 
just went out on my,

458
00:14:57,266 --> 00:14:58,733
'cause that, you know,

459
00:14:58,733 --> 00:15:00,966
that was my life that I 
had already begun to build.

460
00:15:00,966 --> 00:15:03,833
[SMITH] So from emancipated 
minor to emancipated musician,

461
00:15:03,833 --> 00:15:04,933
effectively, right?

462
00:15:04,933 --> 00:15:06,766
I'm gonna do this myself.

463
00:15:06,766 --> 00:15:08,266
[DIFRANCO] Yeah, yeah.

464
00:15:08,266 --> 00:15:10,733
[SMITH] So what was wrong, 
or what is wrong still,

465
00:15:10,733 --> 00:15:12,333
because here we are 
all these years later.

466
00:15:12,333 --> 00:15:14,366
I mean, Righteous Babe has been,

467
00:15:14,366 --> 00:15:15,966
it's almost 30, going 
on 30 years, right?

468
00:15:15,966 --> 00:15:17,333
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

469
00:15:17,333 --> 00:15:19,200
[SMITH] What's wrong 
with the music business?

470
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:20,500
At a high level,

471
00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:22,933
what is wrong with 
the conventional way

472
00:15:22,933 --> 00:15:24,933
that people make 
records, market records,

473
00:15:24,933 --> 00:15:27,333
sell records, distribute 
records, tour and travel,

474
00:15:27,333 --> 00:15:28,233
what's wrong with it?

475
00:15:28,233 --> 00:15:29,633
[DIFRANCO] Ah--

476
00:15:29,633 --> 00:15:31,200
[SMITH] No one is 
more of an advocate

477
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:32,933
for upturning the 
old order than you,

478
00:15:32,933 --> 00:15:34,166
so tell me what the case is.

479
00:15:34,166 --> 00:15:34,966
[DIFRANCO] I mean, 
I think what's wrong

480
00:15:34,966 --> 00:15:36,533
with the music business

481
00:15:36,533 --> 00:15:38,866
is kinda what's wrong 
with any big business.

482
00:15:38,866 --> 00:15:42,433
In that the bottom 
line is on top--

483
00:15:42,433 --> 00:15:43,366
[SMITH] Right, drives 
every decision, right.

484
00:15:43,366 --> 00:15:44,633
[DIFRANCO] Of the priority list.

485
00:15:44,633 --> 00:15:46,600
And bigger is better.

486
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,966
And exponential growth,

487
00:15:48,966 --> 00:15:53,000
which I think of as cancer,

488
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:54,633
is thought of as the goal.

489
00:15:54,633 --> 00:15:56,633
[SMITH] Right, growing 
for the sake of growing.

490
00:15:56,633 --> 00:15:59,033
[DIFRANCO] Growing for the 
sake of growing, you know.

491
00:15:59,033 --> 00:16:02,200
Sustainability is, I 
think, what should be

492
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,566
in the forefront of 
the priority list,

493
00:16:05,566 --> 00:16:08,366
and that can be also, 
in terms of an artist,

494
00:16:08,366 --> 00:16:10,433
sustainability for their soul,

495
00:16:10,433 --> 00:16:13,233
and their self, and 
their life, you know,

496
00:16:13,233 --> 00:16:16,000
just the way that the 
industry typically operates,

497
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,666
I think is not conducive to 
art and artists, and yeah.

498
00:16:20,666 --> 00:16:21,700
[SMITH] One of the 
things, though,

499
00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:23,233
that I think about as I go back

500
00:16:23,233 --> 00:16:25,033
to the days, early days, of 
Righteous Babe, is that the

501
00:16:25,033 --> 00:16:27,333
means of production were 
not really in your hands.

502
00:16:27,333 --> 00:16:29,966
Technology was not 
as easily available.

503
00:16:29,966 --> 00:16:31,533
It was not as affordable.

504
00:16:31,533 --> 00:16:34,533
Now, anybody, can 
be their own label,

505
00:16:34,533 --> 00:16:37,533
their own distributor, right, 
that's one of the great things

506
00:16:37,533 --> 00:16:40,433
about the world now is that 
it is truly a DIY world.

507
00:16:40,433 --> 00:16:43,166
It was not when you did it, 
even though you did DIY, right.

508
00:16:43,166 --> 00:16:44,100
[DIFRANCO] Right.

509
00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:45,033
[SMITH] But it's DIY now.

510
00:16:45,033 --> 00:16:46,166
[DIFRANCO] Yeah, I mean, I think

511
00:16:46,166 --> 00:16:47,900
one of the interesting 
aspects of my

512
00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:52,866
story is that, you know, and 
my independent deconstruction

513
00:16:52,866 --> 00:16:55,333
and reconstruction of 
the music industry,

514
00:16:55,333 --> 00:16:56,933
was that it was pre-internet.

515
00:16:56,933 --> 00:16:58,400
[SMITH] Right.

516
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,100
[DIFRANCO] So I just like that 
factoid, because it proves

517
00:17:01,100 --> 00:17:04,433
that even this incredibly 
powerful tool that has opened a

518
00:17:04,433 --> 00:17:07,466
lot of, you know, new 
possibilities for people,

519
00:17:07,466 --> 00:17:08,733
is not necessary.

520
00:17:08,733 --> 00:17:10,766
[SMITH] Right. So let 
me ask you about that.

521
00:17:10,766 --> 00:17:12,933
So, had the opportunity to 
talk to a lot of people on this

522
00:17:12,933 --> 00:17:16,933
show about streaming services, 
the Spotifys of the world,

523
00:17:16,933 --> 00:17:20,266
and whether that's a positive 
or a negative in terms of

524
00:17:20,266 --> 00:17:24,233
creating an audience, a market 
some would say, but really

525
00:17:24,233 --> 00:17:25,633
we're talking about an audience.

526
00:17:25,633 --> 00:17:28,833
The fact that those 
services provide a means for

527
00:17:28,833 --> 00:17:32,966
discovery. I might 
not be thinking about 
buying your music,

528
00:17:32,966 --> 00:17:35,766
but then I might 
actually encounter 
your music through some

529
00:17:35,766 --> 00:17:37,966
weird means on one of those 
services and go, oh wait a

530
00:17:37,966 --> 00:17:40,166
minute, now I'm totally into 
Ani DiFranco again I'm gonna go

531
00:17:40,166 --> 00:17:41,633
buy all these records.

532
00:17:41,633 --> 00:17:43,866
Do you believe that there 
is some good in that,

533
00:17:43,866 --> 00:17:45,900
in that access, 
in that discovery,

534
00:17:45,900 --> 00:17:49,066
and that ultimately it 
creates more of an audience

535
00:17:49,066 --> 00:17:50,600
and more of a market, 
rather than less?

536
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,233
Or do you think that they're 
stealing your product from you?

537
00:17:53,233 --> 00:17:55,433
[DIFRANCO] Well, you know 
I think it's probably

538
00:17:55,433 --> 00:17:56,766
like the rest of the world,

539
00:17:56,766 --> 00:17:58,333
it's both positive and negative,

540
00:17:58,333 --> 00:17:59,566
you know, everything.

541
00:17:59,566 --> 00:18:02,266
There are upsides, 
there are downsides.

542
00:18:02,266 --> 00:18:05,400
So I don't dwell too much 
on is it good or bad,

543
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,966
it just is, you know, this--

544
00:18:07,966 --> 00:18:09,900
[SMITH] But you 
have to give them,

545
00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:11,833
you have to say 
grace over their--

546
00:18:11,833 --> 00:18:13,066
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

547
00:18:13,066 --> 00:18:14,500
[SMITH] Carrying you 
out to the world.

548
00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:17,666
[DIFRANCO] Yeah, and I 
think for me, it's possible

549
00:18:17,666 --> 00:18:19,700
because it's just 
more of the same.

550
00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:23,966
It's more of focus 
on your purpose,

551
00:18:23,966 --> 00:18:27,033
and your job, that 
you have to do,

552
00:18:27,033 --> 00:18:29,566
that only you know, 
whatever that is,

553
00:18:29,566 --> 00:18:32,233
and the universe, and if 
you are on the right path,

554
00:18:32,233 --> 00:18:33,866
the universe will hold you.

555
00:18:33,866 --> 00:18:38,600
And actually, for me, my bread 
and butter has always been

556
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,166
live performance.

557
00:18:40,166 --> 00:18:41,400
[SMITH] Right.

558
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:42,633
[DIFRANCO] I don't 
think I ever really

559
00:18:42,633 --> 00:18:44,700
sold as many records 
as people might think.

560
00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:47,633
You know, I'm indie girl 
U.S.A. and whoa what a success,

561
00:18:47,633 --> 00:18:52,600
but the literal sales figures 
in terms of my album is not

562
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,633
nearly what major label artists.

563
00:18:55,633 --> 00:18:58,900
[SMITH] Well, you know, some 
musicians are basically,

564
00:18:58,900 --> 00:19:01,833
they exist to make 
records and to tour

565
00:19:01,833 --> 00:19:03,133
in support of those records,

566
00:19:03,133 --> 00:19:05,600
and some are touring 
musicians, performers,

567
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:07,766
who make records essentially 
in the negative space.

568
00:19:07,766 --> 00:19:09,000
You're more--

569
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:10,466
[DIFRANCO] As sort of 
droppings along the way.

570
00:19:10,466 --> 00:19:11,133
[SMITH] Well you're more 
the latter, right, probably.

571
00:19:11,133 --> 00:19:12,366
[DIFRANCO] Yes.

572
00:19:12,366 --> 00:19:13,733
[SMITH] You've always 
been a touring musician,

573
00:19:13,733 --> 00:19:15,200
you've always been a 
performer first and foremost.

574
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,633
That's where your fan 
base gets to encounter you

575
00:19:17,633 --> 00:19:19,800
and engage with you and that's 
how you like it, actually.

576
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:21,066
[DIFRANCO] Yeah, yeah.

577
00:19:21,066 --> 00:19:22,700
[SMITH] One of the 
things I think also,

578
00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:23,966
again back to this idea of

579
00:19:23,966 --> 00:19:25,900
you being out ahead 
of everybody else is

580
00:19:25,900 --> 00:19:29,266
you were a political artist,

581
00:19:29,266 --> 00:19:32,400
or an artist who spoke 
her mind, spoke out

582
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,300
about the injustice, or the 
inequities of the world,

583
00:19:36,300 --> 00:19:38,033
way before that was in fashion.

584
00:19:38,033 --> 00:19:38,966
[DIFRANCO] Yeah.

585
00:19:38,966 --> 00:19:40,733
[SMITH] Now everybody's woke.

586
00:19:40,733 --> 00:19:42,166
But you were there first.

587
00:19:42,166 --> 00:19:43,400
[DIFRANCO] I hope so.

588
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:44,800
[SMITH] Yeah, but 
you were there,

589
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,466
you were there much earlier 
than everybody else.

590
00:19:46,466 --> 00:19:48,233
That seems to be a part 
of your personality.

591
00:19:48,233 --> 00:19:50,966
[DIFRANCO] Yeah, yeah, 
and a part of my history,

592
00:19:50,966 --> 00:19:53,133
my parents both 
very progressive.

593
00:19:53,133 --> 00:19:55,033
My mother, just straight up

594
00:19:55,033 --> 00:19:58,966
activist, herself. And--

595
00:19:58,966 --> 00:20:00,466
[SMITH] Aren't you a 
straight up activist, though,

596
00:20:00,466 --> 00:20:03,100
haven't you been a straight up 
activist your entire career?

597
00:20:03,100 --> 00:20:04,566
[DIFRANCO] Yes, I would 
like to think so, yeah.

598
00:20:04,566 --> 00:20:09,566
But so, me and my idealism,

599
00:20:09,566 --> 00:20:14,566
and my political lens 
that I see through,

600
00:20:14,566 --> 00:20:18,966
I end up in the folk 
circuit at folk festivals.

601
00:20:18,966 --> 00:20:21,133
And though it was 
very out of fashion,

602
00:20:21,133 --> 00:20:26,100
and kind of a dying scene, 
you know, in the '80s.

603
00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:29,133
For me it, you know,

604
00:20:29,133 --> 00:20:34,133
the coolest part 
about that scene was

605
00:20:34,133 --> 00:20:39,133
the social consciousness, 
the political awareness,

606
00:20:39,133 --> 00:20:43,800
the giving-essness.

607
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,633
That was always what really 
appealed to me about the whole

608
00:20:47,633 --> 00:20:49,800
genre and community,

609
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,366
the underground world 
of the folk singer.

610
00:20:52,366 --> 00:20:54,766
I thought the politics were 
the coolest part and it's funny

611
00:20:54,766 --> 00:20:59,500
because, yeah, in the '80s and 
'90s, people were moving away

612
00:20:59,500 --> 00:21:02,533
from the idea of the folk 
singer, which has a political

613
00:21:02,533 --> 00:21:05,533
connotation into 
singer-songwriter.

614
00:21:05,533 --> 00:21:08,066
We wanna be on the 
radio, too, you know.

615
00:21:08,066 --> 00:21:09,266
[SMITH] Right.

616
00:21:09,266 --> 00:21:10,433
[DIFRANCO] But for 
me, it was like, nah,

617
00:21:10,433 --> 00:21:12,100
I wanna hang out 
with the old lefties.

618
00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:15,000
[SMITH] But in terms of 
the political activism,

619
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,333
and being an old leftie, 
you're hanging with the old

620
00:21:17,333 --> 00:21:19,966
lefties, the road has really 
risen to meet you, hasn't it?

621
00:21:19,966 --> 00:21:22,333
The world that 
we're in right now,

622
00:21:22,333 --> 00:21:24,233
not entirely for good reasons,

623
00:21:24,233 --> 00:21:28,166
has activated and animated 
artists of all kinds to speak

624
00:21:28,166 --> 00:21:31,500
out and speak up and that's 
now a fundamental component of

625
00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:33,000
all art.

626
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,266
[DIFRANCO] I do feel much 
more receptivity around me,

627
00:21:37,266 --> 00:21:40,366
yeah, in these last few years.

628
00:21:40,366 --> 00:21:43,100
All kinds of people 
activating, like you say,

629
00:21:43,100 --> 00:21:44,333
and it's very encouraging.

630
00:21:44,333 --> 00:21:47,133
[SMITH] I think, we 
have a few minutes left,

631
00:21:47,133 --> 00:21:48,833
I think about your activism,

632
00:21:48,833 --> 00:21:51,100
particularly on behalf of women,

633
00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:53,633
on behalf of 
reproductive health,

634
00:21:53,633 --> 00:21:55,300
on behalf of specific issues

635
00:21:55,300 --> 00:21:56,533
that you've been associated with

636
00:21:56,533 --> 00:21:59,300
that have kind of blown 
up before our eyes.

637
00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:03,066
Here we sit in a week in 
which the State of Alabama

638
00:22:03,066 --> 00:22:07,200
has effectively, and I 
think without question,

639
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,333
unconstitutionally, 
outlawed abortion.

640
00:22:10,333 --> 00:22:12,800
We are all these years 
after Roe vs. Wade,

641
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,233
we are still having 
these fights.

642
00:22:14,233 --> 00:22:15,666
[DIFRANCO] We are.

643
00:22:15,666 --> 00:22:16,900
[SMITH] We are still 
having this conversation,

644
00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:18,733
and it's extraordinary 
to me to think about it,

645
00:22:18,733 --> 00:22:20,133
but maybe it shouldn't 
be that extraordinary,

646
00:22:20,133 --> 00:22:21,333
and I thought to myself,

647
00:22:21,333 --> 00:22:23,266
I'm gonna get to talk 
to you this week,

648
00:22:23,266 --> 00:22:25,366
and I had to ask you about

649
00:22:25,366 --> 00:22:27,433
what you're seeing 
play out nationally

650
00:22:27,433 --> 00:22:30,033
because I know how strongly 
you feel about this.

651
00:22:30,033 --> 00:22:32,133
[DIFRANCO] Yeah, I 
mean, it's terrifying.

652
00:22:32,133 --> 00:22:34,033
It's just terrifying.

653
00:22:34,033 --> 00:22:36,800
The effects on women's 
lives are profound,

654
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,633
and very destructive.

655
00:22:40,633 --> 00:22:44,466
So, you know, back to the 
fight, back to the struggle.

656
00:22:44,466 --> 00:22:49,466
I mean, honestly, it's so 
overwhelming in a lot of ways.

657
00:22:49,466 --> 00:22:51,433
I know I'm not alone 
in that, you know,

658
00:22:51,433 --> 00:22:56,266
this feeling of we 
are losing everything

659
00:22:56,266 --> 00:22:58,133
that we've ever fought for,

660
00:22:58,133 --> 00:23:02,900
in terms of our rights 
in this country.

661
00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:06,866
You know, the only thing I 
can sort of do in this moment

662
00:23:06,866 --> 00:23:11,766
is sort of turn sometimes 
away from the huge monster

663
00:23:11,766 --> 00:23:16,733
that is gobbling, you know, 
our beautiful, free country,

664
00:23:16,733 --> 00:23:20,633
and turn my focus instead 
to the people all around me

665
00:23:20,633 --> 00:23:24,066
who are doing amazing work 
in so many different arenas,

666
00:23:24,066 --> 00:23:27,633
and say, "How can I help you? 
How can I help you," you know?

667
00:23:27,633 --> 00:23:31,633
How can we support each other, 
make each other stronger

668
00:23:31,633 --> 00:23:34,966
because fighting that 
thing is just enough

669
00:23:34,966 --> 00:23:37,200
to make us all curl in a ball.

670
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:38,433
[SMITH] You've been 
doing this for so long,

671
00:23:38,433 --> 00:23:43,266
clearly something, 
Ani, has given way,

672
00:23:43,266 --> 00:23:44,466
that this is where we are.

673
00:23:44,466 --> 00:23:48,700
Something has materially 
occurred or changed.

674
00:23:48,700 --> 00:23:51,500
Do you have any sense of 
what that is, or why it is?

675
00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:54,333
Is this just a case of 
people being given permission

676
00:23:54,333 --> 00:23:56,466
to say the quiet part out loud?

677
00:23:56,466 --> 00:23:57,966
Like, what's going on?

678
00:23:57,966 --> 00:24:00,800
Because it's not just this 
issue, or this set of issues.

679
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,433
It's issues of race, it's 
issues of inequality.

680
00:24:05,433 --> 00:24:08,933
It's a pretty tentative 
moment right now

681
00:24:08,933 --> 00:24:10,400
in all of our lives, isn't it?

682
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,566
[DIFRANCO] Yeah. Well, 
it's been there all along,

683
00:24:12,566 --> 00:24:16,733
the racism, the misogyny, the 
classism, the heterosexism,

684
00:24:16,733 --> 00:24:21,500
it's just-- So, coming 
out into the light,

685
00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:24,666
I hope, though it 
is very painful,

686
00:24:24,666 --> 00:24:26,566
I hope that will be useful.

687
00:24:26,566 --> 00:24:29,533
It will be easier for 
more of us to address it,

688
00:24:29,533 --> 00:24:33,400
to see it, to not 
be able to deny it.

689
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,133
And I have to believe, you know,

690
00:24:37,133 --> 00:24:40,866
and some days it's hard 
and I make myself believe,

691
00:24:40,866 --> 00:24:42,066
that what we're seeing

692
00:24:42,066 --> 00:24:44,700
in this sort of top down 
political regression

693
00:24:44,700 --> 00:24:47,966
is the shadow side 
of an awakening

694
00:24:47,966 --> 00:24:49,933
that is happening 
from the ground up.

695
00:24:49,933 --> 00:24:51,200
[SMITH] Yeah.

696
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,900
[DIFRANCO] And it is the 
push back of the people

697
00:24:54,900 --> 00:24:57,033
who have held power 
for a long time,

698
00:24:57,033 --> 00:24:58,900
having to share, you know.

699
00:24:58,900 --> 00:25:03,900
But I do believe there is an 
awakening that is happening.

700
00:25:03,900 --> 00:25:06,233
I got kids, I look 
through their eyes

701
00:25:06,233 --> 00:25:10,133
and I see a better, 
more woke world,

702
00:25:10,133 --> 00:25:12,366
and I think that that will be

703
00:25:12,366 --> 00:25:15,033
the more lasting 
effect of this moment,

704
00:25:15,033 --> 00:25:17,233
if we can survive 
the destruction--

705
00:25:17,233 --> 00:25:18,166
[SMITH] Silver lining.

706
00:25:18,166 --> 00:25:18,966
[DIFRANCO] Of the push back.

707
00:25:18,966 --> 00:25:19,766
[SMITH] Silver lining.

708
00:25:19,766 --> 00:25:21,300
You working on a record?

709
00:25:21,300 --> 00:25:22,400
[DIFRANCO] I am.

710
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:23,933
[SMITH] How soon?

711
00:25:23,933 --> 00:25:25,933
[DIFRANCO] Well, I'm doing a 
little music tour next month

712
00:25:25,933 --> 00:25:28,633
and then afterwards I'm gonna 
go in the studio and record.

713
00:25:28,633 --> 00:25:32,433
I managed to eek out a few songs 
while working on that book,

714
00:25:32,433 --> 00:25:33,666
not as many as usual,

715
00:25:33,666 --> 00:25:37,533
but I'm starting to 
crawl back to my guitar.

716
00:25:37,533 --> 00:25:40,166
Hello, remember me?

717
00:25:40,166 --> 00:25:42,066
[DIFRANCO] Okay, 
well, we're waiting.

718
00:25:42,066 --> 00:25:43,433
[DIFRANCO] Sweet.

719
00:25:43,433 --> 00:25:44,633
[SMITH] All right, 
congratulations on the book

720
00:25:44,633 --> 00:25:45,800
and everything 
else you're doing.

721
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:46,600
Ani DiFranco, thank 
you very much.

722
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:47,500
[DIFRANCO] Thank you.

723
00:25:47,500 --> 00:25:52,433
(loud applause)

724
00:25:52,433 --> 00:25:54,133
[SMITH] We'd love to have 
you join us in the studio.

725
00:25:54,133 --> 00:25:58,200
Visit our website at 
KLRU.org/Overheard

726
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,433
to find invitations 
to interviews,

727
00:26:00,433 --> 00:26:02,433
Q&As with our 
audience and guests,

728
00:26:02,433 --> 00:26:05,266
and an archive of past episodes.

729
00:26:05,266 --> 00:26:08,933
[DIFRANCO] Your kids 
know who you are.

730
00:26:08,933 --> 00:26:10,733
They know how you feel.

731
00:26:10,733 --> 00:26:14,433
They know what matters to you.

732
00:26:14,433 --> 00:26:16,400
I feel like my kids 
see through me.

733
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,066
I couldn't hide if 
I tried, you know?

734
00:26:19,066 --> 00:26:23,233
So, for me, it just 
feels like, you know,

735
00:26:23,233 --> 00:26:27,400
just the daily 
process of being real.

736
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,866
[ANNOUNCER] Funding for 
Overheard with Evan Smith

737
00:26:29,866 --> 00:26:31,633
is provided in part by

738
00:26:31,633 --> 00:26:35,733
HillCo Partners, a Texas 
government affairs consultancy,

739
00:26:35,733 --> 00:26:38,366
the Alice Kleberg 
Reynolds Foundation,

740
00:26:38,366 --> 00:26:40,433
Claire and Carl Stuart,

741
00:26:40,433 --> 00:26:42,266
and by Entergy.

742
00:26:43,733 --> 00:26:45,900
(soft chimes)