1 00:00:01,466 --> 00:00:02,933 - [Narrator] Funding for Overheard with Evan Smith 2 00:00:02,933 --> 00:00:04,500 is provided in part by the 3 00:00:04,500 --> 00:00:08,600 Alice Kleberg Reynolds Foundation and Hillco Partners, 4 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,033 a Texas government affairs consultancy, and by 5 00:00:12,033 --> 00:00:15,833 KLRU's Producers Circle, ensuring local programming 6 00:00:15,833 --> 00:00:17,700 that reflects the character and interests 7 00:00:17,700 --> 00:00:21,166 of the greater Austin, Texas, community. 8 00:00:21,166 --> 00:00:22,566 - I'm Evan Smith. 9 00:00:22,566 --> 00:00:23,800 He's one of the best-selling children's author's 10 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,633 in history and one of the most prolific. 11 00:00:26,633 --> 00:00:28,733 With more than 300 books to his credit, 12 00:00:28,733 --> 00:00:31,800 including the Goosebumps and Fear Street series. 13 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,500 His latest is Young Scrooge: A Very Scary Christmas Story. 14 00:00:35,500 --> 00:00:39,333 He's R. L. Stine, this is Overheard. 15 00:00:39,333 --> 00:00:40,900 Let's be honest. 16 00:00:40,900 --> 00:00:42,733 Is this about the ability to learn or is this about 17 00:00:42,733 --> 00:00:45,366 the experience of not having been taught properly? 18 00:00:45,366 --> 00:00:46,866 How have you avoided what has 19 00:00:46,866 --> 00:00:49,466 befallen other nations in Africa-- 20 00:00:49,466 --> 00:00:51,000 You could say that he made his own bed, 21 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:52,700 but you caused him to sleep in it. 22 00:00:52,700 --> 00:00:55,933 No, you saw a problem and over time took it on. 23 00:00:55,933 --> 00:00:58,933 Let's start with the sizzle before we get to the steak. 24 00:00:58,933 --> 00:01:00,400 Are you gonna run for president? 25 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:02,000 I think I just got an F from you actually. 26 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,166 (audience applauding) 27 00:01:07,333 --> 00:01:08,566 R. L. Stine, welcome. 28 00:01:08,566 --> 00:01:09,400 - Thank you. 29 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:10,233 - Very nice to meet you. 30 00:01:10,233 --> 00:01:11,700 - So nice to be here. 31 00:01:11,700 --> 00:01:15,933 - I seem to remember the actual Christmas Carol being scary. 32 00:01:15,933 --> 00:01:18,533 Why is it necessary to write a scary version of this? 33 00:01:18,533 --> 00:01:21,066 - I know, and nothing like stealing from the best, right? 34 00:01:21,066 --> 00:01:22,966 - Right, well, but you understand it's like when I hear 35 00:01:22,966 --> 00:01:26,066 that we're gonna do a scary version of A Christmas Carol, 36 00:01:26,066 --> 00:01:28,000 that's like a musical version of Rent. 37 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,200 I thought it was a musical. 38 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,833 - No, you're totally right. 39 00:01:31,833 --> 00:01:33,133 - Why this now? 40 00:01:33,133 --> 00:01:35,000 - I had never written a Christmas book before. 41 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:35,833 - [Evan] Oh is that right? 42 00:01:35,833 --> 00:01:37,300 - Yeah. 43 00:01:37,300 --> 00:01:38,766 - [Evan] In all the books you're written, hundreds of books. 44 00:01:38,766 --> 00:01:40,233 - I thought no, this is inappropriate for Christmas 45 00:01:40,233 --> 00:01:41,500 I thought, and then I realized the most popular 46 00:01:41,500 --> 00:01:43,933 Christmas story ever was a ghost story. 47 00:01:43,933 --> 00:01:44,766 - That's true. 48 00:01:44,766 --> 00:01:46,166 - Yeah. 49 00:01:46,166 --> 00:01:47,433 - Multiple ghosts. 50 00:01:47,433 --> 00:01:49,700 - Then I had this idea, well what if there was 51 00:01:49,700 --> 00:01:51,866 a 12-year-old Scrooge, or what was Scrooge 52 00:01:51,866 --> 00:01:53,300 like when he was 12? 53 00:01:53,300 --> 00:01:54,533 - [Evan] Right. 54 00:01:54,533 --> 00:01:56,433 - And I wrote this book about this kid who's 55 00:01:56,433 --> 00:01:58,433 the meanest kid in school. 56 00:01:58,433 --> 00:02:01,200 - Right, and in fact that's one of the things 57 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:02,733 I found most remarkable about this book 58 00:02:02,733 --> 00:02:06,366 is not the point at which the ghosts materialize, 59 00:02:06,366 --> 00:02:08,900 but the character of this kid at a time when 60 00:02:08,900 --> 00:02:11,133 we talk about bullying in this world. 61 00:02:11,133 --> 00:02:13,800 I hope that people understand this is fiction, right? 62 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,266 - Well I love writing bullies. 63 00:02:16,266 --> 00:02:17,100 - You do? 64 00:02:17,100 --> 00:02:17,933 - Yeah. 65 00:02:17,933 --> 00:02:18,866 - You're pro-bully? 66 00:02:18,866 --> 00:02:20,533 - Yeah, I think I was a bully. 67 00:02:20,533 --> 00:02:21,800 - Do you? 68 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,566 - Yeah, especially to my brother, my kid brother. 69 00:02:24,566 --> 00:02:27,400 I always knew how to make him cry. 70 00:02:30,333 --> 00:02:34,300 - Are there elements in this book of your own experience? 71 00:02:34,300 --> 00:02:37,433 - Well you can't help but do that I think when you write. 72 00:02:37,433 --> 00:02:38,800 Not intentionally. 73 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:40,400 I just like writing bullies. 74 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,300 I think he's a very funny character. 75 00:02:42,300 --> 00:02:44,933 He does horrible things to all the other kids 76 00:02:44,933 --> 00:02:46,266 and he thinks it's funny. 77 00:02:46,266 --> 00:02:48,066 He says they have no sense of humor. 78 00:02:48,066 --> 00:02:50,000 - [Evan] Right, it's all on them, it's their problem. 79 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:50,866 - They're losers. 80 00:02:50,866 --> 00:02:51,833 - [Evan] Right. 81 00:02:51,833 --> 00:02:53,700 - He's just a horrible kid. 82 00:02:53,700 --> 00:02:55,133 My favorite scene in the book, 83 00:02:55,133 --> 00:02:56,600 if you want to talk about the book. 84 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,233 - I wish you would, please. 85 00:02:58,233 --> 00:03:00,300 - Is the principal calls him in 86 00:03:00,300 --> 00:03:03,200 and shows him a film about a horrible 87 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,133 school bully, and then says to him, 88 00:03:07,300 --> 00:03:08,633 his name's Rick Scroogeman. 89 00:03:08,633 --> 00:03:09,666 - [Evan] Rick Scroogeman. 90 00:03:09,666 --> 00:03:11,166 - Yes. 91 00:03:11,166 --> 00:03:12,600 He says, what do you think of that guy in the film? 92 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:13,900 He said, he's awesome. 93 00:03:13,900 --> 00:03:15,166 - Right, he loves him. 94 00:03:15,166 --> 00:03:16,166 It's a role model. 95 00:03:16,166 --> 00:03:17,633 - Yeah, and he's awesome. 96 00:03:17,633 --> 00:03:18,533 - Right. 97 00:03:18,533 --> 00:03:20,300 - So I love that part. 98 00:03:20,300 --> 00:03:22,766 You write things, there are parts you like. 99 00:03:22,766 --> 00:03:25,033 - It's a great book, and let me offer you 100 00:03:25,033 --> 00:03:27,466 a back-handed compliment, for somebody 101 00:03:27,466 --> 00:03:30,333 who produces so many books over a period of years, 102 00:03:30,333 --> 00:03:33,533 just churns them out, they don't read like you're just 103 00:03:33,533 --> 00:03:34,966 checking a box. 104 00:03:34,966 --> 00:03:37,233 They don't read as some authors who produce a lot do, 105 00:03:37,233 --> 00:03:40,166 that they're just basically formulaic, or that no 106 00:03:40,166 --> 00:03:41,600 thought went into it. 107 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,433 Every one of your books individually feels like, 108 00:03:44,433 --> 00:03:46,500 and I know this is your process, that you actually 109 00:03:46,500 --> 00:03:49,500 line out the characters, and you know the ending 110 00:03:49,500 --> 00:03:51,266 always when you sit down and write a book. 111 00:03:51,266 --> 00:03:52,533 - I outline every book. 112 00:03:52,533 --> 00:03:54,400 - You're very explicit about your intentions 113 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:55,966 before you sit down. 114 00:03:55,966 --> 00:03:57,633 Every book feels like time and preparation 115 00:03:57,633 --> 00:03:59,600 went into it, which shouldn't be surprising. 116 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,133 - What a nice compliment, thank you. 117 00:04:01,133 --> 00:04:02,566 - But I'm not sure that most people appreciate that. 118 00:04:02,566 --> 00:04:04,400 - Well I think every author, when you sit down 119 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,666 to write, you don't say, well I'm going to write 120 00:04:06,666 --> 00:04:08,700 a mediocre book today. 121 00:04:08,700 --> 00:04:10,200 - No. 122 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:11,700 - I'm going to knock one out, I've got another one, 123 00:04:11,700 --> 00:04:12,966 let me knock it out. 124 00:04:12,966 --> 00:04:14,200 - Right. 125 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:15,166 - I don't think any author ever does that. 126 00:04:15,166 --> 00:04:16,366 - Where's my paycheck? 127 00:04:16,366 --> 00:04:17,966 - I try to write every book and make it 128 00:04:17,966 --> 00:04:20,933 as good as I can, whatever my talent is. 129 00:04:20,933 --> 00:04:23,100 - At the same time though, I think one difference is, 130 00:04:23,100 --> 00:04:25,200 while nobody sets out to write a mediocre book, 131 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,933 not everybody sits down knowing the fullness 132 00:04:27,933 --> 00:04:29,833 of the story in advance. 133 00:04:29,833 --> 00:04:33,100 - Well I always tell kids this, and kids hate this advice. 134 00:04:33,100 --> 00:04:36,133 Everyone hates to outline, and I think most kids 135 00:04:36,133 --> 00:04:40,866 think if you write a book, you sit down, you start writing. 136 00:04:40,866 --> 00:04:42,333 - [Evan] And it will come out of you, right? 137 00:04:42,333 --> 00:04:44,233 - Yeah, and a lot of kids say, I get bogged down 138 00:04:44,233 --> 00:04:46,266 in the middle, what do I do? 139 00:04:46,266 --> 00:04:48,400 I never quite get to the end. 140 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,666 Then I say well I figure out the end first. 141 00:04:51,666 --> 00:04:52,866 I can always get to the end. 142 00:04:52,866 --> 00:04:54,100 - Isn't that right? 143 00:04:54,100 --> 00:04:54,966 You do, you know the ending first. 144 00:04:54,966 --> 00:04:56,166 - Yes. 145 00:04:56,166 --> 00:04:57,400 - Right, and you in some ways work backwards. 146 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,233 - Then I know how to fool the kids 147 00:04:59,233 --> 00:05:02,466 and keep them from guessing the ending. 148 00:05:03,900 --> 00:05:06,733 The hardest part of a book to write is the middle. 149 00:05:06,733 --> 00:05:08,366 It's impossible, middles. 150 00:05:08,366 --> 00:05:10,166 - [Evan] It's where all books die, or many books die. 151 00:05:10,166 --> 00:05:14,033 - So if you have an outline, if it's all planned, 152 00:05:14,033 --> 00:05:15,666 you don't have to worry about it. 153 00:05:15,666 --> 00:05:17,666 Kids hate this advice. 154 00:05:17,666 --> 00:05:18,900 (audience laughing) 155 00:05:18,900 --> 00:05:20,166 They hate it, no they just hate it. 156 00:05:20,166 --> 00:05:20,966 - Kids hate a lot of advice, right? 157 00:05:20,966 --> 00:05:21,800 - Well yeah. 158 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:22,633 - Newsflash, right? 159 00:05:22,633 --> 00:05:23,900 - Right. 160 00:05:23,900 --> 00:05:25,966 - This is not as far as it goes, no disrespect, 161 00:05:25,966 --> 00:05:30,366 a scary story, but in fact it's in the same vein 162 00:05:30,366 --> 00:05:32,866 as many of your books, and in fact almost all your books. 163 00:05:32,866 --> 00:05:36,566 It has that sort of scary/horror edge to it. 164 00:05:36,566 --> 00:05:37,800 - I added the scary. 165 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:39,066 It's basically a funny book. 166 00:05:39,066 --> 00:05:40,166 - Why horror? 167 00:05:41,700 --> 00:05:44,400 I know that you started out actually as a humor writer. 168 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:45,766 - Writing joke books. 169 00:05:45,766 --> 00:05:48,200 - You eventually moved into doing this. 170 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,166 I'm interested in why horror is so interesting to you 171 00:05:51,166 --> 00:05:54,866 and how over time your notion of what is horror, 172 00:05:54,866 --> 00:05:57,300 and how horror itself is effective 173 00:05:57,300 --> 00:05:58,933 and not effective, has changed. 174 00:05:58,933 --> 00:06:01,700 Because we live in a different world than when you started. 175 00:06:01,700 --> 00:06:02,900 - Yeah, to answer that part first. 176 00:06:02,900 --> 00:06:03,833 - Yeah, sure. 177 00:06:03,833 --> 00:06:05,900 - But our fears don't change. 178 00:06:05,900 --> 00:06:08,133 Only the technology has changed. 179 00:06:08,133 --> 00:06:09,566 - How's that? 180 00:06:09,566 --> 00:06:14,200 - Well for one thing, cell phones have ruined every story. 181 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:15,433 - [Evan] Because? 182 00:06:15,433 --> 00:06:17,866 - They've ruined every plot I have. 183 00:06:17,866 --> 00:06:20,833 A girl is getting frightening phone calls. 184 00:06:20,833 --> 00:06:22,800 Who's calling me, who's doing this? 185 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,666 Now she looks down, oh that's who it is. 186 00:06:25,666 --> 00:06:26,600 - Right. 187 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,166 - Story's ruined, it's over. 188 00:06:28,166 --> 00:06:29,600 - Called I.D. has ruined everything. 189 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,600 - Trapped in a cabin and there's a killer there. 190 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,066 What do we do? 191 00:06:34,066 --> 00:06:37,266 Oh, pick up the phone, call for help, story's over. 192 00:06:37,266 --> 00:06:40,433 (audience laughing) 193 00:06:40,433 --> 00:06:42,033 You have to get rid of the cell phones. 194 00:06:42,033 --> 00:06:45,466 - What I'm thinking though is that kids today, 195 00:06:45,466 --> 00:06:47,766 I have a 16 year old, my youngest is 16. 196 00:06:47,766 --> 00:06:49,633 So if I think about my 16 year old and how 197 00:06:49,633 --> 00:06:52,000 he reacts to scary things, he'll say I'm going 198 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,400 with my friends to see The Purge, or we're going 199 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,733 to see Saw, or something like that, right? 200 00:06:56,733 --> 00:06:58,166 - Saw. 201 00:06:58,166 --> 00:07:01,700 - These movies, and they're totally desensitized. 202 00:07:01,700 --> 00:07:04,266 Kids that age are desensitized to this stuff. 203 00:07:04,266 --> 00:07:06,800 It's harder to scare kids of that age today 204 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,800 than it was say 25 or 30 years ago. 205 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,666 I wonder if that's because technology has sped up 206 00:07:11,666 --> 00:07:15,166 things to the point that 16 is the new 25. 207 00:07:16,233 --> 00:07:17,066 - They see more. 208 00:07:17,066 --> 00:07:17,900 - Right. 209 00:07:17,900 --> 00:07:18,733 - They see more sooner. 210 00:07:18,733 --> 00:07:20,000 - Yeah. 211 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:20,933 Doesn't that make it harder on you, 212 00:07:20,933 --> 00:07:22,166 as you're trying to craft? 213 00:07:22,166 --> 00:07:23,400 - My stuff is all the same, it's the same. 214 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,066 We're all afraid, afraid of the dark, 215 00:07:25,066 --> 00:07:27,600 afraid of being in a strange place, 216 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,233 afraid of finding yourself somewhere 217 00:07:29,233 --> 00:07:30,833 you don't know where it is, afraid that 218 00:07:30,833 --> 00:07:33,200 something is under your bed and is gonna grab 219 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,966 your ankles, that's all the same. 220 00:07:38,300 --> 00:07:40,933 I was a kid in the 50's, and my brother and I 221 00:07:40,933 --> 00:07:44,300 used to go to horror movies, scary movies every Saturday. 222 00:07:44,300 --> 00:07:45,300 - What do you remember? 223 00:07:45,300 --> 00:07:46,566 What horror movies scared you? 224 00:07:46,566 --> 00:07:48,366 - Oh Creature From The Black Lagoon. 225 00:07:48,366 --> 00:07:50,466 It Came From Outer Space. 226 00:07:51,433 --> 00:07:53,900 The Brain That Wouldn't Die. 227 00:07:53,900 --> 00:07:57,000 We saw them all, and I think, like Goosebumps, 228 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,233 that's what Goosebumps is, they're 50's horror stories. 229 00:08:00,233 --> 00:08:02,433 - Just updated, or presented in a more modern way. 230 00:08:02,433 --> 00:08:03,700 - Not even updated that much. 231 00:08:03,700 --> 00:08:04,900 (audience laughing) 232 00:08:04,900 --> 00:08:06,333 - It's basically the same thing. 233 00:08:06,333 --> 00:08:07,966 - It could have been written when I was a kid. 234 00:08:07,966 --> 00:08:09,433 But no one did it. 235 00:08:09,433 --> 00:08:10,833 - But people who do horror as entertainment today 236 00:08:10,833 --> 00:08:12,500 feel the need most definitely, unlike what 237 00:08:12,500 --> 00:08:14,733 you're saying, to come up with all these-- 238 00:08:14,733 --> 00:08:16,200 - Well they want to go farther and farther 239 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,133 but I don't do that because I don't really 240 00:08:19,133 --> 00:08:21,200 want to terrify kids. 241 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,233 See I like books like Young Scrooge that 242 00:08:23,233 --> 00:08:24,900 are basically funny. 243 00:08:26,300 --> 00:08:30,100 My main goal, to be serious, is to get kids to read. 244 00:08:31,333 --> 00:08:32,966 - And this just happens to be the magnet. 245 00:08:32,966 --> 00:08:35,300 It's the plots, the narratives happen to be the magnet. 246 00:08:35,300 --> 00:08:37,233 - It's really motivation. 247 00:08:37,233 --> 00:08:40,033 The books are very easy to read, the chapters 248 00:08:40,033 --> 00:08:43,933 are short, the reading level is fourth or fifth grade. 249 00:08:43,933 --> 00:08:46,233 I learned all about reading level and how to write 250 00:08:46,233 --> 00:08:49,366 to different levels, and I keep it simple, 251 00:08:49,366 --> 00:08:51,666 and the idea, they like scary stuff, 252 00:08:51,666 --> 00:08:53,833 so I do scary stuff, but the main idea 253 00:08:53,833 --> 00:08:55,533 is to get them to read. 254 00:08:55,533 --> 00:08:58,066 When people say to me, I learned to read 255 00:08:58,066 --> 00:09:00,100 on your books, my kid learned to read, 256 00:09:00,100 --> 00:09:01,700 that's just thrilling to me. 257 00:09:01,700 --> 00:09:03,200 - Happiest moment for you. 258 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:04,833 - It is, it's wonderful, and never get tired of hearing it. 259 00:09:04,833 --> 00:09:06,033 - I guess it occurs to me that the people 260 00:09:06,033 --> 00:09:07,866 who are doing horror as entertainment today, 261 00:09:07,866 --> 00:09:09,633 when they say they feel the need to change it up, 262 00:09:09,633 --> 00:09:12,700 they make it more gross, graphic, disgusting. 263 00:09:12,700 --> 00:09:16,066 The more gross, and the more graphic, the better, 264 00:09:16,066 --> 00:09:18,200 and that actually might be a disincentive. 265 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,133 If a kid encounters a book that is ostensibly 266 00:09:20,133 --> 00:09:21,600 for them but it's got the kind of stuff that 267 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,100 legitimately keeps them up at night, then they 268 00:09:24,100 --> 00:09:25,700 might not come back and read the next book. 269 00:09:25,700 --> 00:09:26,533 - Right. 270 00:09:26,533 --> 00:09:27,366 - Right? 271 00:09:27,366 --> 00:09:28,633 - Right. 272 00:09:28,633 --> 00:09:30,833 I think one reason kids like my books 273 00:09:30,833 --> 00:09:33,433 is they know how far they're going to go, 274 00:09:33,433 --> 00:09:35,433 they know they're not going to go too far, 275 00:09:35,433 --> 00:09:38,266 and they're all going to have happy endings, 276 00:09:38,266 --> 00:09:40,333 which is really important. 277 00:09:40,333 --> 00:09:43,700 Once I wrote a Fear Street book with an unhappy ending, 278 00:09:43,700 --> 00:09:47,200 just for fun, just for me, and in the end, 279 00:09:48,500 --> 00:09:52,766 the murderer gets off scot-free, and an innocent girl 280 00:09:52,766 --> 00:09:56,733 is taken off to prison, and that's the end of the book. 281 00:09:56,733 --> 00:09:58,866 That's the only unhappy ending I ever wrote, 282 00:09:58,866 --> 00:10:01,333 and the kids turned on me immediately. 283 00:10:01,333 --> 00:10:02,166 - [Evan] Did they really? 284 00:10:02,166 --> 00:10:03,366 (audience laughing) 285 00:10:03,366 --> 00:10:05,000 - Yeah, and I got letters, immediately. 286 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,333 "Dear R.L. Stine, you moron." 287 00:10:07,333 --> 00:10:08,666 (audience laughing) 288 00:10:08,666 --> 00:10:10,066 "How could you write that?" 289 00:10:10,066 --> 00:10:11,633 "R.L. Stine, you idiot." 290 00:10:11,633 --> 00:10:15,200 "Are you going to write a sequel to finish the story?" 291 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:16,733 - They couldn't believe that was the ending? 292 00:10:16,733 --> 00:10:18,200 - They couldn't take it. 293 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:19,300 I had to write a sequel. 294 00:10:19,300 --> 00:10:20,133 - Is that right? 295 00:10:20,133 --> 00:10:21,566 - Finish the story, yes. 296 00:10:21,566 --> 00:10:24,066 - It seems like any possible plot that exists 297 00:10:24,066 --> 00:10:27,533 out there, I'm not ending your career as we sit here. 298 00:10:27,533 --> 00:10:29,333 - It's pretty much over. 299 00:10:29,333 --> 00:10:30,233 - You're getting close? 300 00:10:30,233 --> 00:10:31,233 (audience laughing) 301 00:10:31,233 --> 00:10:32,066 - Yeah. 302 00:10:32,066 --> 00:10:33,533 (laughing) 303 00:10:33,533 --> 00:10:35,033 - The number, I think it's more than 300 books. 304 00:10:35,033 --> 00:10:39,100 - I know, that's why I look like this, 300 books. 305 00:10:39,100 --> 00:10:42,600 I'm 35 years old, look at me, look at me. 306 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:43,700 - Speaking of horror. 307 00:10:43,700 --> 00:10:45,200 - Yeah. 308 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:46,633 - You've written how many Goosebumps books alone 309 00:10:46,633 --> 00:10:48,366 with various permutations? 310 00:10:48,366 --> 00:10:53,166 - Next year is the 25th anniversary of Goosebumps. 311 00:10:53,166 --> 00:10:54,866 That's a lot of scary stories. 312 00:10:54,866 --> 00:10:55,866 Over 100. 313 00:10:55,866 --> 00:10:56,900 - But it's well over 100, right? 314 00:10:56,900 --> 00:10:57,866 - Oh yeah. 315 00:10:57,866 --> 00:10:59,100 - Have you run out of plots? 316 00:10:59,100 --> 00:10:59,933 - Yes. 317 00:10:59,933 --> 00:11:00,766 - Are you exhausted? 318 00:11:00,766 --> 00:11:01,600 - Oh years ago. 319 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:02,800 - You have? 320 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:03,633 - Look at me, I'm stealing from Dickens. 321 00:11:03,633 --> 00:11:04,700 - Right, exactly. 322 00:11:04,700 --> 00:11:06,666 (audience laughing) 323 00:11:06,666 --> 00:11:08,000 - I'm weighed, yeah I know. 324 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:08,900 - Young Hamlet. 325 00:11:08,900 --> 00:11:10,133 - Young Hamlet. 326 00:11:10,133 --> 00:11:12,766 That, by the way, is my favorite movie title, 327 00:11:12,766 --> 00:11:16,566 for real, of all the movie titles in history, 328 00:11:16,566 --> 00:11:20,600 this movie title is my favorite, Hamlet Two. 329 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,466 (audience laughing) 330 00:11:22,466 --> 00:11:23,666 Did you see that? 331 00:11:23,666 --> 00:11:25,033 - I did not, no I was not aware of that. 332 00:11:25,033 --> 00:11:26,100 - Steve Coogan. 333 00:11:26,100 --> 00:11:27,366 - That's very funny. 334 00:11:27,366 --> 00:11:28,933 - Hamlet Two, a great title. 335 00:11:28,933 --> 00:11:32,100 - So I want to know how you originally decided-- 336 00:11:32,100 --> 00:11:34,500 - I haven't run out of plots. 337 00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:35,766 Somehow not. 338 00:11:35,766 --> 00:11:37,966 I'm real lucky, but you know what? 339 00:11:37,966 --> 00:11:40,033 People always say, every question, 340 00:11:40,033 --> 00:11:42,833 if we ask for questions, someone will say, 341 00:11:42,833 --> 00:11:44,433 where do you get your inspiration? 342 00:11:44,433 --> 00:11:46,966 Where do you get your ideas? 343 00:11:46,966 --> 00:11:49,433 I never try to think of ideas now. 344 00:11:49,433 --> 00:11:52,666 I only think of titles, I don't try to think of ideas. 345 00:11:52,666 --> 00:11:56,066 I was walking my dog in the park and these words 346 00:11:56,066 --> 00:11:59,733 popped into my head, Little Shop Of Hamsters. 347 00:11:59,733 --> 00:12:01,000 (audience laughing) 348 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:02,233 - [Evan] That's a book? 349 00:12:02,233 --> 00:12:04,733 - That's it, great title, great title. 350 00:12:04,733 --> 00:12:07,133 How do I make hamsters scary? 351 00:12:07,133 --> 00:12:10,133 So I'm thinking, do I do a giant hamster? 352 00:12:10,133 --> 00:12:11,800 Do I do 1,000 hamsters? 353 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,300 - So it's literally as simple as something 354 00:12:13,300 --> 00:12:14,900 pops in your head, it's a book? 355 00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:16,366 - Yeah. 356 00:12:16,366 --> 00:12:18,733 Well come on, you know, they don't all lead to books. 357 00:12:18,733 --> 00:12:20,766 Sometimes I'll get an idea, and I can't think 358 00:12:20,766 --> 00:12:23,400 of a good title, and I throw out the idea. 359 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:24,933 - Give me an example of a title you've come up with 360 00:12:24,933 --> 00:12:26,400 that you've not been able to do a book, or has that 361 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,333 never happened? 362 00:12:28,333 --> 00:12:29,666 - [R.L.] I won't remember. 363 00:12:29,666 --> 00:12:31,566 - Right, but it's rare though? 364 00:12:31,566 --> 00:12:32,966 It's the rare time that that's happened? 365 00:12:32,966 --> 00:12:33,800 - Yeah. 366 00:12:35,233 --> 00:12:38,833 Because I pretty much know if a title is a good title. 367 00:12:38,833 --> 00:12:42,466 - Why did you make the transition from humor, to horror? 368 00:12:42,466 --> 00:12:44,633 - Evan this is an embarrassing story. 369 00:12:44,633 --> 00:12:45,566 - Tell it. 370 00:12:45,566 --> 00:12:47,133 - I shouldn't tell it. 371 00:12:47,133 --> 00:12:49,133 - It's PBS, we have all the time in the world, go ahead. 372 00:12:49,133 --> 00:12:51,100 (audience laughing) 373 00:12:51,100 --> 00:12:53,533 - Being scary wasn't my idea. 374 00:12:54,633 --> 00:12:55,866 That's embarrassing. 375 00:12:55,866 --> 00:12:56,700 I didn't think of it. 376 00:12:56,700 --> 00:12:57,666 - [Evan] That's okay. 377 00:12:57,666 --> 00:12:59,166 - I did a humor magazine. 378 00:12:59,166 --> 00:13:01,833 - Called Bananas, I remember this growing up. 379 00:13:01,833 --> 00:13:04,933 - That was my life's dream, to have my own humor magazine. 380 00:13:04,933 --> 00:13:07,100 - It was kind of in the same vein as Mad Magazine, Cracked 381 00:13:07,100 --> 00:13:10,166 Magazine, it was in that era of those humor magazines. 382 00:13:10,166 --> 00:13:13,233 - I wrote the whole thing, I had a great time, for 10 years. 383 00:13:13,233 --> 00:13:14,566 - [Evan] In fact you wrote under a different name, 384 00:13:14,566 --> 00:13:15,900 you were like Jolly Bob Stine? 385 00:13:15,900 --> 00:13:17,100 - I was Jovial. 386 00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:18,933 - Jovial Bob Stine, right, I remember that. 387 00:13:18,933 --> 00:13:20,533 - Not a good name for a horror writer. 388 00:13:20,533 --> 00:13:21,500 I had to change that. 389 00:13:21,500 --> 00:13:22,700 - The Jovial was a problem. 390 00:13:22,700 --> 00:13:23,933 - Yeah, that was bad. 391 00:13:23,933 --> 00:13:26,266 So I'm writing all this funny stuff 392 00:13:26,266 --> 00:13:28,166 and I was writing all kinds of things. 393 00:13:28,166 --> 00:13:31,433 I was writing Bazooka Joe bubble gum jokes, 394 00:13:31,433 --> 00:13:33,933 and Mighty Mouse coloring books, 395 00:13:33,933 --> 00:13:35,433 and writing all this stuff. 396 00:13:35,433 --> 00:13:39,500 I had lunch with an editor, my friend from Scholastic. 397 00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:41,466 She was the editorial director. 398 00:13:41,466 --> 00:13:43,400 She came in to lunch angry, she just had 399 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,333 a fight with another young adult horror writer. 400 00:13:48,433 --> 00:13:51,000 She said I'm never working with him again. 401 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,133 You could write a good horror novel. 402 00:13:53,133 --> 00:13:56,166 Go home, write a book called Blind Date 403 00:13:56,166 --> 00:13:59,633 for teenagers, and I wrote this book Blind Date. 404 00:13:59,633 --> 00:14:01,866 It came out, it was the number-one best seller. 405 00:14:01,866 --> 00:14:02,800 - [Evan] What was the plot? 406 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:04,033 Do you remember the plot? 407 00:14:04,033 --> 00:14:05,266 - Yeah it was this boy Josh who was getting 408 00:14:05,266 --> 00:14:07,800 mysterious phone calls from a girl. 409 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,100 He doesn't know who it is and she keeps saying, 410 00:14:10,100 --> 00:14:11,933 I'm your blind date, Josh. 411 00:14:11,933 --> 00:14:13,266 - And because there's no cell phones, 412 00:14:13,266 --> 00:14:14,566 he can't look at the caller I.D. 413 00:14:14,566 --> 00:14:15,766 - That's right. 414 00:14:15,766 --> 00:14:18,166 I'm your blind date, it was 1986. 415 00:14:18,166 --> 00:14:20,266 I'm your blind date, Josh. 416 00:14:20,266 --> 00:14:23,066 Then he tries to track her down, and he finds 417 00:14:23,066 --> 00:14:25,066 that she's been dead for five years. 418 00:14:25,066 --> 00:14:25,900 - Oh wow. 419 00:14:26,933 --> 00:14:27,866 Good one. 420 00:14:27,866 --> 00:14:28,800 - That was the original plot. 421 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:29,500 - I'm scared now just listening. 422 00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:30,700 - I know. 423 00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:32,233 I've done that plot about 10 times. 424 00:14:32,233 --> 00:14:33,066 - You have. 425 00:14:33,066 --> 00:14:34,600 (laughing) 426 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,066 - Number-One best seller. 427 00:14:36,066 --> 00:14:37,633 I thought wait a minute, what's going on? 428 00:14:37,633 --> 00:14:40,433 Then I wrote a second one, number-one best seller. 429 00:14:40,433 --> 00:14:41,666 - Blind Third Date? 430 00:14:41,666 --> 00:14:43,500 (laughing) 431 00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:44,700 - Yeah, Hamlet Two. 432 00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:45,900 - [Evan] What was that called? 433 00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:46,900 - It was called Twisted. 434 00:14:46,900 --> 00:14:48,100 - [Evan] Twisted, yeah. 435 00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:50,000 - And I said forget the funny stuff. 436 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:51,166 - [Evan] I can do this, and I can make money 437 00:14:51,166 --> 00:14:52,700 at it probably too, right? 438 00:14:52,700 --> 00:14:55,000 - Kids like to be scared, they liked it much better. 439 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,566 - You said as a kid, you and your brother used to 440 00:14:56,566 --> 00:14:57,800 go to horror movies. 441 00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:59,966 I want to go a step to the side of that and ask 442 00:14:59,966 --> 00:15:02,133 how you decided you wanted to write? 443 00:15:02,133 --> 00:15:04,133 Because even if it was humor writing, 444 00:15:04,133 --> 00:15:08,233 the lore is there was a typewriter up in your attic? 445 00:15:08,233 --> 00:15:09,300 - It's pretty much true. 446 00:15:09,300 --> 00:15:10,233 - Tell the story. 447 00:15:10,233 --> 00:15:11,200 - It's pretty much true. 448 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:12,300 - That you discovered. 449 00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:13,533 - I dragged a typewriter into my room. 450 00:15:13,533 --> 00:15:16,266 I have no idea why I liked it so much. 451 00:15:16,266 --> 00:15:18,333 I was a weird kid, I would just stay in my room. 452 00:15:18,333 --> 00:15:19,400 - Hard to imagine. 453 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,833 (audience laughing) 454 00:15:21,833 --> 00:15:24,833 - I'm in Columbus, Ohio, in a nice suburb, quiet. 455 00:15:24,833 --> 00:15:27,066 I had a very nice childhood. 456 00:15:27,066 --> 00:15:29,100 But I'm in my room typing stories, 457 00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:32,433 typing jokes, making little joke books, typing, typing. 458 00:15:32,433 --> 00:15:34,566 - And your parents were not in the business, as they say? 459 00:15:34,566 --> 00:15:38,133 - No my dad was a blue collar worker, we were very poor. 460 00:15:38,133 --> 00:15:40,033 They didn't understand at all. 461 00:15:40,033 --> 00:15:43,866 My mother would be outside my door, and I later realized 462 00:15:43,866 --> 00:15:48,500 this was the worst advice anyone ever gave me in my life. 463 00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:52,033 She would say, stop typing, go outside and play. 464 00:15:52,033 --> 00:15:53,633 (audience laughing) 465 00:15:53,633 --> 00:15:55,066 Horrible advice, right? 466 00:15:55,066 --> 00:15:56,466 - Honestly, she was doing her part. 467 00:15:56,466 --> 00:15:57,966 - Yeah. 468 00:15:57,966 --> 00:15:59,733 She would say go outside, and I would say it's boring 469 00:15:59,733 --> 00:16:01,866 out there, type, type, type. 470 00:16:01,866 --> 00:16:03,133 - Type, type, type. 471 00:16:03,133 --> 00:16:04,666 - Except I only type with one finger. 472 00:16:04,666 --> 00:16:06,166 I never learned how to type. 473 00:16:06,166 --> 00:16:07,000 - Still? 474 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:07,833 - Yeah. 475 00:16:07,833 --> 00:16:09,333 I never learned how. 476 00:16:09,333 --> 00:16:10,266 - You still type all these years later with one finger? 477 00:16:10,266 --> 00:16:11,566 - I'll show you the finger. 478 00:16:11,566 --> 00:16:13,000 (audience laughing) 479 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,233 - Which? 480 00:16:14,233 --> 00:16:15,633 - No, I've written 300 books with this finger, 481 00:16:15,633 --> 00:16:18,766 but look at it, look, it's totally bent. 482 00:16:18,766 --> 00:16:20,133 It's ruined. 483 00:16:20,133 --> 00:16:22,800 - That's a pretty successful finger, honestly. 484 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:24,166 (laughing) 485 00:16:24,166 --> 00:16:26,166 - This is what I sacrificed for my art. 486 00:16:26,166 --> 00:16:27,466 (audience laughing) 487 00:16:27,466 --> 00:16:28,400 The finger is wrecked. 488 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:29,666 - [Evan] Is that it? 489 00:16:29,666 --> 00:16:32,466 - Any way, I don't know, I just knew when I was 490 00:16:32,466 --> 00:16:35,433 nine years old that I wanted to write. 491 00:16:35,433 --> 00:16:37,266 That's all I've ever done. 492 00:16:37,266 --> 00:16:38,333 - Isn't that amazing? 493 00:16:38,333 --> 00:16:39,800 - It is amazing. 494 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:41,000 I'm very lucky. 495 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,633 - Do you read other people's horror writing? 496 00:16:44,633 --> 00:16:45,733 - Yeah I do. 497 00:16:45,733 --> 00:16:47,800 - YA-young adult or kids? 498 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,333 - There isn't that much YA horror, there is some. 499 00:16:50,333 --> 00:16:52,833 - And Goosebumps, just so we're clear on the delineation 500 00:16:52,833 --> 00:16:55,666 here, Goosebumps is for a younger subset, right? 501 00:16:55,666 --> 00:16:57,333 - It's middle grade, it's seven to 12. 502 00:16:57,333 --> 00:16:58,633 - And Fear Street was? 503 00:16:58,633 --> 00:17:01,133 - It's like 10 to 15, really, 12 to 15. 504 00:17:01,133 --> 00:17:02,166 - Is there a difference in writing for those two? 505 00:17:02,166 --> 00:17:03,000 - Oh yeah. 506 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,233 - Talk about that. 507 00:17:04,233 --> 00:17:05,766 - Well one is I get to kill off teenagers. 508 00:17:05,766 --> 00:17:07,200 (audience laughing) 509 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:08,700 Fear Street, I get to kill. 510 00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:09,633 - [Evan] Couldn't kill off teenagers in Goosebumps? 511 00:17:09,633 --> 00:17:10,566 - No one dies in Goosebumps. 512 00:17:10,566 --> 00:17:12,066 No one ever dies in Goosebumps. 513 00:17:12,066 --> 00:17:13,533 - [Evan] That was a decision you made in the beginning? 514 00:17:13,533 --> 00:17:15,333 - If you were a ghost, you were a ghost like 100 years ago. 515 00:17:15,333 --> 00:17:16,866 - Did you consciously make that decision? 516 00:17:16,866 --> 00:17:18,066 - Yeah. 517 00:17:18,066 --> 00:17:18,600 - [Evan] Because that would be too much? 518 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:19,866 - Yeah. 519 00:17:19,866 --> 00:17:22,433 I keep all reality out of Goosebumps. 520 00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:24,900 Parents don't get divorced. 521 00:17:24,900 --> 00:17:27,233 - Am I correct that Fear Street preceded Goosebumps 522 00:17:27,233 --> 00:17:28,533 sequentially, right? 523 00:17:28,533 --> 00:17:29,466 - Yeah it did. 524 00:17:29,466 --> 00:17:30,966 - So Fear Street came first? 525 00:17:30,966 --> 00:17:34,700 - Fear Street came first, and it was teens in terror. 526 00:17:35,900 --> 00:17:38,000 It was doing really well. 527 00:17:41,133 --> 00:17:45,066 My editors came to me and said, why don't we try 528 00:17:45,066 --> 00:17:46,766 a younger series? 529 00:17:46,766 --> 00:17:50,266 Why don't we try a scary series for seven to 12 year olds? 530 00:17:50,266 --> 00:17:51,100 I said no. 531 00:17:51,966 --> 00:17:53,166 - You said no? 532 00:17:53,166 --> 00:17:54,366 - Yeah, that's the kind of businessman I am. 533 00:17:54,366 --> 00:17:55,466 (audience laughing) 534 00:17:55,466 --> 00:17:56,666 I didn't want to do Goosebumps. 535 00:17:56,666 --> 00:17:57,933 - Well you didn't know if it would work. 536 00:17:57,933 --> 00:18:00,500 - I thought it would mess up Fear Street, 537 00:18:00,500 --> 00:18:02,266 the younger audience, and they kept after me, 538 00:18:02,266 --> 00:18:05,966 and kept after me, and finally I said all right 539 00:18:05,966 --> 00:18:09,200 we can try two or three, let's try, if I can 540 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,866 think of a good name for the series. 541 00:18:11,866 --> 00:18:13,600 - Who came up with Goosebumps, you did? 542 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:14,800 - Yeah I did. 543 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:16,733 I'm reading TV Guide, and in those days, 544 00:18:16,733 --> 00:18:19,200 they had all the TV listings in the middle. 545 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:20,800 - In the old days, right. 546 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,100 - And I'm reading through, and there's a little ad 547 00:18:23,100 --> 00:18:26,333 on the bottom, I'm in New York, and it says, 548 00:18:26,333 --> 00:18:28,800 it's goosebumps week on channel 11. 549 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:29,833 - Goosebumps week? 550 00:18:29,833 --> 00:18:30,766 - Yeah. 551 00:18:30,766 --> 00:18:31,866 - And you went, that's it? 552 00:18:31,866 --> 00:18:33,166 - I just started at it. 553 00:18:33,166 --> 00:18:34,000 It's perfect. 554 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:34,833 - You knew it? 555 00:18:34,833 --> 00:18:35,766 - It's perfect. 556 00:18:35,766 --> 00:18:37,233 It's funny and it's scary. 557 00:18:37,233 --> 00:18:39,800 - What I love about how you're describing your work 558 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,733 and the journey you've been on, which doesn't seem 559 00:18:42,733 --> 00:18:44,666 to have taken you to a ton of different, I mean 560 00:18:44,666 --> 00:18:46,666 you've sort of been on one path, is that you don't 561 00:18:46,666 --> 00:18:50,766 get too complicated or caught up in all, oh I'm 562 00:18:50,766 --> 00:18:52,033 agonizing about this or that. 563 00:18:52,033 --> 00:18:54,833 You just basically do it. 564 00:18:54,833 --> 00:18:57,933 Sometimes the simplest approach is the right approach. 565 00:18:57,933 --> 00:19:01,333 - Yeah, that's the only thing I'm good at. 566 00:19:01,333 --> 00:19:02,766 You can ask my wife. 567 00:19:02,766 --> 00:19:04,200 (audience laughing) 568 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,200 Really, it's the only thing that I'm competent at. 569 00:19:09,566 --> 00:19:11,400 I'm always confident when I sit down to write. 570 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:12,700 I know I can do it. 571 00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:14,133 - But if Jonathan Franzen were here, 572 00:19:14,133 --> 00:19:16,800 or a novelist who writes fewer books, 573 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:18,433 and writes them at greater length, 574 00:19:18,433 --> 00:19:19,900 with more complexity in the narratives, 575 00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:21,533 they might say it's the only thing I'm good at also. 576 00:19:21,533 --> 00:19:23,900 But the difference between a Jonathan Franzen 577 00:19:23,900 --> 00:19:26,266 and R.L. Stine, is that R.L. Stine doesn't make it 578 00:19:26,266 --> 00:19:28,066 more complicated than it needs to be. 579 00:19:28,066 --> 00:19:29,766 He knows what the task in front of him is, 580 00:19:29,766 --> 00:19:32,100 he sits down, and he does it. 581 00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:33,666 Doesn't mean that the product is any less valuable 582 00:19:33,666 --> 00:19:35,400 or less embraceable. 583 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,100 - I'm a good commercial writer. 584 00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:39,833 - Relatively straightforward, but not commercial 585 00:19:39,833 --> 00:19:41,233 in the sense, I come back to what I said in the 586 00:19:41,233 --> 00:19:42,966 beginning, these are not books that you're just 587 00:19:42,966 --> 00:19:44,600 churning out of the assembly line. 588 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,700 - Most writers, I'm on panels all the time 589 00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:50,166 with authors, and most writers talk about 590 00:19:50,166 --> 00:19:52,733 how hard it is to write. 591 00:19:52,733 --> 00:19:53,566 - [Evan] Yes, they do, right. 592 00:19:53,566 --> 00:19:54,966 - 90 percent of them. 593 00:19:54,966 --> 00:19:56,100 - That's how you know I'm a writer, 594 00:19:56,100 --> 00:19:57,200 the hardest thing in the world 595 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:58,433 there is for me to do is write. 596 00:19:58,433 --> 00:19:59,900 - It's so hard, I tell the kids to stay out 597 00:19:59,900 --> 00:20:02,733 of the room, I go up in a tower and I write in the dark 598 00:20:02,733 --> 00:20:05,333 with a candle, and it's so hard. 599 00:20:05,333 --> 00:20:08,300 I always said that's ridiculous. 600 00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:10,666 - What scares you after all these years? 601 00:20:10,666 --> 00:20:12,033 - I have no good answer to that question. 602 00:20:12,033 --> 00:20:13,300 - [Evan] Nothing scares you? 603 00:20:13,300 --> 00:20:14,966 - I have normal human scares, but something 604 00:20:14,966 --> 00:20:18,000 missing in my brain when it comes to horror 605 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,166 because when I read a scary Stephen King, terrifying novel 606 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,100 or go to a scary movie, I always laugh. 607 00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:27,166 (audience laughing) 608 00:20:27,166 --> 00:20:28,133 - You think it's funny? 609 00:20:28,133 --> 00:20:29,233 - I think horror is funny. 610 00:20:29,233 --> 00:20:30,700 - Yeah I don't understand that. 611 00:20:30,700 --> 00:20:32,266 - When I write these books it's with punch lines. 612 00:20:32,266 --> 00:20:33,733 - Let me ask the question in a different way. 613 00:20:33,733 --> 00:20:36,833 So there's a hierarchy of things that might 614 00:20:36,833 --> 00:20:38,300 be interesting or scary to you. 615 00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:41,533 So there is audio fear, things that you hear. 616 00:20:41,533 --> 00:20:43,133 Like I actually have a memory when I was a kid 617 00:20:43,133 --> 00:20:46,300 of the first, is it John Carpenter that did the 618 00:20:46,300 --> 00:20:47,366 Halloween movies? 619 00:20:47,366 --> 00:20:48,833 - Yes. 620 00:20:48,833 --> 00:20:51,066 - The music in that movie, I remember for years 621 00:20:51,066 --> 00:20:54,200 and years just absolutely scaring the stuffing out of me. 622 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,833 Just the sound of it, I didn't have to see anything. 623 00:20:56,833 --> 00:20:59,766 Then there's the visual scaring, and then there's 624 00:20:59,766 --> 00:21:04,600 actually scaring that is neither audio, oral nor visual 625 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,500 where it's just a sense, the anticipation of something. 626 00:21:07,500 --> 00:21:10,133 Like so if you go to one of these like Disneyland 627 00:21:10,133 --> 00:21:12,133 or one of these amusement parks, and they've got 628 00:21:12,133 --> 00:21:14,200 these things where the person is going to jump 629 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,333 out at you, in some ways the anticipation, not actually 630 00:21:16,333 --> 00:21:18,500 seeing it or hearing it, but just worrying. 631 00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:20,266 So there are different ways that you can be scared 632 00:21:20,266 --> 00:21:22,366 as a grown up, let alone as a kid. 633 00:21:22,366 --> 00:21:24,200 - When you write, you try to use all of those. 634 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,166 - Which of those is more problematic for you? 635 00:21:26,166 --> 00:21:29,500 - Here's the scariest moment of my life. 636 00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:33,266 A magazine invited me and another guy 637 00:21:33,266 --> 00:21:36,433 to tour the haunted houses that pop up 638 00:21:37,533 --> 00:21:40,033 at Halloween time in New York. 639 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,366 I showed up and there were three different 640 00:21:43,366 --> 00:21:45,866 haunted houses they wanted us to comment on 641 00:21:45,866 --> 00:21:47,666 and go through. 642 00:21:47,666 --> 00:21:50,633 The other guy turned out to be the head 643 00:21:50,633 --> 00:21:52,766 of the Satanist Church. 644 00:21:52,766 --> 00:21:53,800 (audience laughing) 645 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:54,633 - [Evan] The other guy with you? 646 00:21:54,633 --> 00:21:55,900 - Yeah. 647 00:21:55,900 --> 00:21:56,866 - Didn't tell you this beforehand? 648 00:21:56,866 --> 00:21:58,133 - He looked just like the devil. 649 00:21:58,133 --> 00:21:59,466 He had his eyebrows curled like this, 650 00:21:59,466 --> 00:22:02,333 and he had a little goatee, and I thought 651 00:22:02,333 --> 00:22:04,633 here I'm a children's author, this is not 652 00:22:04,633 --> 00:22:05,933 a good thing here. 653 00:22:05,933 --> 00:22:07,433 - [Evan] Right. 654 00:22:07,433 --> 00:22:10,700 - It was the Satanist Church, and we went through 655 00:22:10,700 --> 00:22:14,166 this haunted house, and they had an area where 656 00:22:14,166 --> 00:22:18,333 you push through, and you find yourself in total blackness. 657 00:22:20,466 --> 00:22:22,133 Total darkness. 658 00:22:22,133 --> 00:22:24,666 And you don't know how big the room is, 659 00:22:24,666 --> 00:22:27,166 you don't know what's ahead of you on the floor, 660 00:22:27,166 --> 00:22:28,900 it's being blind. 661 00:22:28,900 --> 00:22:30,333 I was scared to death. 662 00:22:30,333 --> 00:22:32,000 - Well that's anticipation in some ways, right? 663 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,266 - Scared me to death, but also I didn't know what to do. 664 00:22:34,266 --> 00:22:36,466 Could I walk straight, could I keep going? 665 00:22:36,466 --> 00:22:38,000 - And this has never happened to you before? 666 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,233 - No, this was the scariest moment of my life. 667 00:22:41,233 --> 00:22:44,200 The head of the Satanist Church reached out 668 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,433 and took my hand, and guided me through. 669 00:22:47,433 --> 00:22:48,400 - [Evan] Wow. 670 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:49,466 - He was such a nice guy. 671 00:22:49,466 --> 00:22:50,733 (audience laughing) 672 00:22:50,733 --> 00:22:52,466 He was so nice. 673 00:22:52,466 --> 00:22:55,300 - A Kumbaya moment between you and the Satanist, 674 00:22:55,300 --> 00:22:56,533 isn't that great? 675 00:22:56,533 --> 00:23:00,466 - Right, and that was terrifying to me. 676 00:23:00,466 --> 00:23:02,000 - Okay well everybody has their thing. 677 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,266 So I'm wondering, your books have been 678 00:23:03,266 --> 00:23:05,200 translated into I don't know how many languages 679 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,566 and they've been available, all the Goosebumps 680 00:23:06,566 --> 00:23:08,166 books in all kinds of countries. 681 00:23:08,166 --> 00:23:11,466 Do you think culturally that what is scary 682 00:23:11,466 --> 00:23:14,500 works country to country, or culture to culture? 683 00:23:14,500 --> 00:23:15,966 - It seems to. 684 00:23:15,966 --> 00:23:19,133 There's also a great interest, like Goosebumps is hugely 685 00:23:19,133 --> 00:23:22,766 popular in China now, is the new Mandarin translation. 686 00:23:22,766 --> 00:23:24,000 - [Evan] Why do you think that is? 687 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,600 - Because there's real interest in our country. 688 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:26,800 - Yeah. 689 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:27,866 I mean it's as simple as that. 690 00:23:27,866 --> 00:23:29,233 - Yeah. 691 00:23:29,233 --> 00:23:31,366 They just have a real interest, what is it like there? 692 00:23:31,366 --> 00:23:32,600 What are the kids like there? 693 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:33,866 - What's scary in China, is the same as what's 694 00:23:33,866 --> 00:23:35,566 scary here, and does it ever cause you to change 695 00:23:35,566 --> 00:23:38,066 the way that you approach the writing of these books? 696 00:23:38,066 --> 00:23:39,533 - No. 697 00:23:39,533 --> 00:23:40,466 - Knowing that it's going to be read elsewhere. 698 00:23:40,466 --> 00:23:41,666 - I never think about that. 699 00:23:41,666 --> 00:23:43,666 It seems to work cause they like it. 700 00:23:43,666 --> 00:23:46,800 When I was there, I did a five-city book tour in China 701 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,366 which was wonderful. 702 00:23:48,366 --> 00:23:49,866 Oh I had the best time. 703 00:23:49,866 --> 00:23:52,700 The Chinese kids, they were great. 704 00:23:52,700 --> 00:23:56,033 But they all said, why don't you do a story about dragons? 705 00:23:56,033 --> 00:23:58,833 Dragons are actually good in China. 706 00:23:58,833 --> 00:23:59,666 They're good. 707 00:23:59,666 --> 00:24:00,533 - Yeah. 708 00:24:00,533 --> 00:24:01,800 - I didn't know that. 709 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:02,333 - So are you going to a dragon book? 710 00:24:02,333 --> 00:24:03,266 - Maybe. 711 00:24:03,266 --> 00:24:04,366 I haven't thought of one yet. 712 00:24:04,366 --> 00:24:05,566 - We have about a minute left. 713 00:24:05,566 --> 00:24:08,500 I want to ask you about why these books, 714 00:24:08,500 --> 00:24:09,800 it's not that they haven't been at all, 715 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,500 but why they haven't been more prevalent 716 00:24:11,500 --> 00:24:15,233 or more pervasive across other entertainment platforms? 717 00:24:15,233 --> 00:24:19,566 Why am I unable to see Goosebumps the television show, 718 00:24:19,566 --> 00:24:20,700 or Goosebumps the movie? 719 00:24:20,700 --> 00:24:22,166 - It's all on Netflix. 720 00:24:22,166 --> 00:24:24,233 They did four years of Goosebumps TV. 721 00:24:24,233 --> 00:24:25,666 - But you've been doing these books for a lot longer 722 00:24:25,666 --> 00:24:27,666 than four years and there are many more books. 723 00:24:27,666 --> 00:24:29,033 I would have assumed that this was going to be 724 00:24:29,033 --> 00:24:30,800 the franchise to end all franchises. 725 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:32,166 (laughing) 726 00:24:32,166 --> 00:24:33,700 - Well we had the Goosebumps movie last year. 727 00:24:33,700 --> 00:24:35,000 - [Evan] Jack Black was in that, right? 728 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,100 - Jack Black was me. 729 00:24:36,100 --> 00:24:37,366 - [Evan] You were in it. 730 00:24:37,366 --> 00:24:38,900 - Yeah, Jack and I are like twins, right? 731 00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:39,733 - Yes. 732 00:24:39,733 --> 00:24:40,833 (audience laughing) 733 00:24:40,833 --> 00:24:42,066 Indeed. 734 00:24:42,066 --> 00:24:45,300 - No but it took them 20 years to do the movie. 735 00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:46,800 We had movie deals for 20 years. 736 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,333 Finally 20 years later, the movie came out. 737 00:24:49,333 --> 00:24:50,733 - [Evan] What do you think it was that took so long? 738 00:24:50,733 --> 00:24:53,500 - They didn't have a script that they liked. 739 00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:55,366 No one could figure out what to do. 740 00:24:55,366 --> 00:24:56,566 - They should approach it like you approach it. 741 00:24:56,566 --> 00:24:58,166 Just sit down and write it. 742 00:24:58,166 --> 00:24:59,866 - Yes, I have been very lucky though. 743 00:24:59,866 --> 00:25:02,633 I've had I think four TV series. 744 00:25:02,633 --> 00:25:05,866 I've had The Haunting Hour was on for four years. 745 00:25:05,866 --> 00:25:07,000 - You're satisfied that there's been enough 746 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,800 of an extension of these books? 747 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,800 - Well I would like to see more movies. 748 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,333 I haven't had much luck there. 749 00:25:12,333 --> 00:25:15,100 I've had a lot of luck, I just feel I'm very lucky. 750 00:25:15,100 --> 00:25:18,000 How many children's authors have had four TV series 751 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,100 and a movie that's about them? 752 00:25:20,100 --> 00:25:20,933 - Yeah. 753 00:25:20,933 --> 00:25:22,433 (laughing) 754 00:25:22,433 --> 00:25:23,566 And how many children's authors have sold as many 755 00:25:23,566 --> 00:25:24,566 books quite candidly as you have? 756 00:25:24,566 --> 00:25:25,400 Maybe none. 757 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:26,233 - No. 758 00:25:26,233 --> 00:25:27,766 That's just luck. 759 00:25:27,766 --> 00:25:28,966 It really is. 760 00:25:28,966 --> 00:25:30,733 - Well you say it's luck, I say you got into 761 00:25:30,733 --> 00:25:32,566 something that you did exceptionally well, 762 00:25:32,566 --> 00:25:33,966 better than anybody else, and you've made 763 00:25:33,966 --> 00:25:34,900 something of it. 764 00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:36,100 - Thank you. 765 00:25:36,100 --> 00:25:37,366 - You should get the credit for that. 766 00:25:37,366 --> 00:25:38,466 Congratulations on this book, good luck with it, 767 00:25:38,466 --> 00:25:39,700 and everything else you do. 768 00:25:39,700 --> 00:25:41,233 I suspect we're going to be seeing a lot more. 769 00:25:41,233 --> 00:25:42,666 - I hope so. 770 00:25:42,666 --> 00:25:43,666 - Good, R.L. Stine, thank you very much, sir. 771 00:25:43,666 --> 00:25:46,666 (audience applause) 772 00:25:47,833 --> 00:25:49,500 - [Announcer] We would love to have you join us 773 00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:53,533 in the studio, visit our website at klru.org/overheard 774 00:25:53,533 --> 00:25:56,700 to find invitations to interviews, Q&A's with our 775 00:25:56,700 --> 00:26:01,233 audience and guests, and an archive of past episodes. 776 00:26:01,233 --> 00:26:03,833 - Parents in Goosebumps are useless. 777 00:26:03,833 --> 00:26:05,833 (audience laughing) 778 00:26:05,833 --> 00:26:08,800 The parents never believe the kids, ever. 779 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,933 They never believe what's going on. 780 00:26:10,933 --> 00:26:13,533 They're usually totally absent. 781 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,833 The idea of a Goosebumps book is that the kids 782 00:26:17,833 --> 00:26:20,566 have these horrible, terrifying problems 783 00:26:20,566 --> 00:26:23,133 and they have to solve them on their own. 784 00:26:23,133 --> 00:26:25,266 - [Announcer] Funding for Overheard with Evan Smith 785 00:26:25,266 --> 00:26:28,633 is provided in part by the Alice Kleberg Reynolds 786 00:26:28,633 --> 00:26:32,100 Foundation and Hillco Partners, a Texas government 787 00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:36,700 affairs consultancy, and by KLRU's Producer's Circle, 788 00:26:36,700 --> 00:26:39,466 ensuring local programming that reflects the character 789 00:26:39,466 --> 00:26:43,633 and interests of the greater Austin, Texas, community.