1 00:00:01,466 --> 00:00:02,833 [Announcer] Funding for Overheard with Evan Smith 2 00:00:02,833 --> 00:00:05,466 is provided in part by Hillco Partners, 3 00:00:05,466 --> 00:00:08,266 A Texas Government Affairs Consultancy. 4 00:00:08,266 --> 00:00:10,766 And by Claire and Carl Stuart. 5 00:00:12,866 --> 00:00:14,500 - I'm Evan Smith, he's a critically acclaimed 6 00:00:14,500 --> 00:00:17,333 academy award nominated director and screenwriter 7 00:00:17,333 --> 00:00:20,566 who's credits include Boyhood, Dazed and Confused, 8 00:00:20,566 --> 00:00:22,333 Bernie, and Slacker. 9 00:00:22,333 --> 00:00:24,933 His latest film is Last Flag Flying, 10 00:00:24,933 --> 00:00:27,500 he's Richard Linklater, this is Overheard. 11 00:00:27,500 --> 00:00:29,033 (soft music) (audience applause) 12 00:00:29,033 --> 00:00:31,400 Let's be honest, is this about the ability to learn 13 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,100 or is this about the experience 14 00:00:33,100 --> 00:00:34,966 of not having been taught properly? 15 00:00:34,966 --> 00:00:36,933 How have you avoided what has befallen 16 00:00:36,933 --> 00:00:38,433 other nations in Africa-- 17 00:00:38,433 --> 00:00:40,733 You could say that he'd made his own bed, 18 00:00:40,733 --> 00:00:42,233 but you caused him to sleep in it. 19 00:00:42,233 --> 00:00:45,366 You saw a problem and over time took it on and-- 20 00:00:45,366 --> 00:00:48,333 Let's start with the sizzle before we get to the steak. 21 00:00:48,333 --> 00:00:49,833 Are you gonna run for president? 22 00:00:49,833 --> 00:00:52,366 I think I just got an F from you, actually. 23 00:00:52,366 --> 00:00:53,466 This is Overheard. 24 00:00:53,466 --> 00:00:56,466 (audience applause) 25 00:00:58,033 --> 00:00:59,600 Richard Linklater, welcome. 26 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,166 - Thanks for having me. 27 00:01:01,166 --> 00:01:02,400 - Good to see you, welcome back to another episode 28 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,800 of the Richard Linklater fanboy half hour. 29 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:06,100 - Yeah, okay. 30 00:01:06,100 --> 00:01:07,566 (laughing) 31 00:01:07,566 --> 00:01:08,833 - This is a great film. 32 00:01:08,833 --> 00:01:10,100 - Oh thank you. 33 00:01:10,100 --> 00:01:11,366 - Please take this the way that I intend it, 34 00:01:11,366 --> 00:01:13,100 I keep waiting for you to shank one. 35 00:01:13,100 --> 00:01:14,500 I keep thinking at some point, 36 00:01:14,500 --> 00:01:16,366 he'll make a movie that doesn't work. 37 00:01:16,366 --> 00:01:18,333 Do you feel as good, I mean I loved this movie, 38 00:01:18,333 --> 00:01:20,700 from your perspective do you think this movie worked 39 00:01:20,700 --> 00:01:22,033 as you wanted it to? 40 00:01:22,033 --> 00:01:22,833 - Yeah. 41 00:01:22,833 --> 00:01:24,066 Yeah absolutely. 42 00:01:24,066 --> 00:01:25,700 - Does it always turn out that way? 43 00:01:25,700 --> 00:01:26,600 - Kind of. 44 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:27,433 - Yeah? 45 00:01:27,433 --> 00:01:28,600 (audience laughter) 46 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:29,400 Okay, good night everybody, thank you. 47 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:30,866 (audience laughter) 48 00:01:30,866 --> 00:01:32,833 - You're always dealing with a lot of things 49 00:01:32,833 --> 00:01:34,166 you can't totally control, 50 00:01:34,166 --> 00:01:37,266 but to my, from my perspective, if I just, you know, 51 00:01:37,266 --> 00:01:38,500 you do your best you work really hard, 52 00:01:38,500 --> 00:01:41,533 try to make everything work and collaborate 53 00:01:41,533 --> 00:01:45,266 and yeah I haven't done a movie where I like, 54 00:01:45,266 --> 00:01:47,133 there was some fundamental flaw that to me 55 00:01:47,133 --> 00:01:49,666 made the movie not work. 56 00:01:49,666 --> 00:01:51,933 I mean people have ones they don't like 57 00:01:51,933 --> 00:01:53,866 or maybe characters don't speak to them. 58 00:01:53,866 --> 00:01:55,133 - Or like less. 59 00:01:55,133 --> 00:01:57,833 - Or whatever, but I always feel like-- 60 00:01:57,833 --> 00:02:00,300 - Generally, and so this one, 61 00:02:00,300 --> 00:02:02,300 so this is, I have a theory, we've discussed this before. 62 00:02:02,300 --> 00:02:05,066 That you're always in a one for me one for them 63 00:02:05,066 --> 00:02:07,566 one for me one for them mode with your films. 64 00:02:07,566 --> 00:02:08,766 I know you don't agree with this. 65 00:02:08,766 --> 00:02:10,200 I look at a movie like this and I think 66 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:11,133 - At all. - This is a big 67 00:02:11,133 --> 00:02:12,733 consumer facing film. 68 00:02:12,733 --> 00:02:14,466 You have made big films and small films, 69 00:02:14,466 --> 00:02:15,933 you've made films that were more for 70 00:02:15,933 --> 00:02:19,266 a film lover audience and more for a general consumption. 71 00:02:19,266 --> 00:02:20,600 I looked at this and I thought 72 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:22,800 this is a general consumption film. 73 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,933 - I think it could be, but it has kind of 74 00:02:25,933 --> 00:02:28,433 I don't know, it feels like just the next film. 75 00:02:28,433 --> 00:02:30,933 It's another film I tried ten years to get made 76 00:02:30,933 --> 00:02:32,466 and I wrote the script so long ago. 77 00:02:32,466 --> 00:02:34,466 - That's the story you tried ten years to make this film? 78 00:02:34,466 --> 00:02:37,366 - Yeah this was, I had a script in '05, '06, 79 00:02:37,366 --> 00:02:39,666 because it deals with the Iraq war. 80 00:02:39,666 --> 00:02:43,200 I think the world, my industry and the world in general 81 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,166 didn't want to see that subject matter. 82 00:02:46,166 --> 00:02:50,200 Hopefully they're ready to examine that now a little more. 83 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,266 But yeah it was a long way. 84 00:02:52,266 --> 00:02:53,766 - But in part this film is based on, 85 00:02:53,766 --> 00:02:56,733 is it not based on the novel by Darryl Ponsican? 86 00:02:56,733 --> 00:02:58,966 - Yeah, yeah, Darryl Ponicsan. 87 00:02:58,966 --> 00:03:00,633 - Ponicsan, pardon me, Ponicsan. 88 00:03:00,633 --> 00:03:02,566 - Yeah, he wrote a book in 1970 called 89 00:03:02,566 --> 00:03:04,033 The Last Detail. 90 00:03:04,033 --> 00:03:05,266 - Right, which then became a Jack Nicholson film. 91 00:03:05,266 --> 00:03:08,500 - Right, and then this book is many years later 92 00:03:08,500 --> 00:03:12,300 he kind of reactivated those three characters 93 00:03:12,300 --> 00:03:13,933 and wrote this book. 94 00:03:13,933 --> 00:03:15,566 It was never gonna be a sequel, 95 00:03:15,566 --> 00:03:17,733 you know the movie, because we couldn't get those guys, 96 00:03:17,733 --> 00:03:19,800 Otis Young had died, you know things like that. 97 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,533 But together we adapted it kind of 98 00:03:22,533 --> 00:03:25,633 away from them specifically, add a Vietnam backstory, 99 00:03:25,633 --> 00:03:27,500 so it's really a-- 100 00:03:27,500 --> 00:03:28,933 - It doesn't play as a sequel to anything 101 00:03:28,933 --> 00:03:30,900 it plays as a movie that stands on its own. 102 00:03:30,900 --> 00:03:33,133 - Yeah, right, but that's kind of it's DNA. 103 00:03:33,133 --> 00:03:34,600 I mean, if you know that film, 104 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,966 film people know that film but I think the general public 105 00:03:37,966 --> 00:03:39,466 not so much. 106 00:03:39,466 --> 00:03:41,033 - So let's do the story, so the story is three guys 107 00:03:41,033 --> 00:03:42,233 who served together in Vietnam, 108 00:03:42,233 --> 00:03:43,766 the catalyst for this is Steve Carell 109 00:03:43,766 --> 00:03:46,633 who's character goes and finds the other two. 110 00:03:46,633 --> 00:03:50,866 - Looks them up literally the stranger walking into a bar. 111 00:03:50,866 --> 00:03:52,466 - And the bar owner happens to be one of the two. 112 00:03:52,466 --> 00:03:55,133 - His old buddy, who once he realizes who he is 113 00:03:55,133 --> 00:03:56,600 is like oh, you know. 114 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,133 - [Evan] He remembers Doc. 115 00:03:58,133 --> 00:03:59,666 - He was Doc, the younger guy, he was a Navy guy. 116 00:03:59,666 --> 00:04:02,333 They were two Marines and then they go look up Mueller 117 00:04:02,333 --> 00:04:03,833 the third guy. 118 00:04:03,833 --> 00:04:05,266 - Right, so the bar owner is played by Bryan Cranston 119 00:04:05,266 --> 00:04:07,533 and then the third guy, Mueller, who is now a preacher 120 00:04:07,533 --> 00:04:10,000 but he was kind of a wild guy back in the day 121 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:11,433 is played by Laurence Fishburne. 122 00:04:11,433 --> 00:04:12,433 - Yeah, could you get farther apart 123 00:04:12,433 --> 00:04:14,566 than a bar owner and a preacher. 124 00:04:14,566 --> 00:04:16,666 But they were hellraisers back in the day 125 00:04:16,666 --> 00:04:18,600 and they all went through something, obviously, in Vietnam. 126 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,300 - So the Vietnam story itself turns out to be 127 00:04:21,300 --> 00:04:23,433 a little bit more complicated than what it at first 128 00:04:23,433 --> 00:04:25,966 appears to be and Steve Carell has come to see them 129 00:04:25,966 --> 00:04:30,300 because his own child, Larry Jr. has gone to Iraq, 130 00:04:30,300 --> 00:04:31,900 this is set in 2003. 131 00:04:31,900 --> 00:04:33,366 - Yeah the first year of the war. 132 00:04:33,366 --> 00:04:34,633 - First year of the war, and he's killed in the war, 133 00:04:34,633 --> 00:04:36,166 and he's gonna, and the body of his son 134 00:04:36,166 --> 00:04:38,200 is gonna come back and Steve Carell wants these two 135 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:42,466 Vietnam mates of his to accompany him to receive the body. 136 00:04:42,466 --> 00:04:44,100 - And he doesn't tell them that up front, 137 00:04:44,100 --> 00:04:45,500 you know he's there under mysterious, 138 00:04:45,500 --> 00:04:48,266 it takes him a while to even admit that. 139 00:04:48,266 --> 00:04:49,666 But he doesn't even know, probably, 140 00:04:49,666 --> 00:04:51,733 why he's looked these guys up. 141 00:04:51,733 --> 00:04:53,433 - Right, so their story together turns out to be 142 00:04:53,433 --> 00:04:55,166 a little bit different than what you see. 143 00:04:55,166 --> 00:04:56,633 And it turns out that the circumstances, 144 00:04:56,633 --> 00:04:59,366 without going into it, the circumstances of the son's death 145 00:04:59,366 --> 00:05:01,666 are also not as they appear to be. 146 00:05:01,666 --> 00:05:05,133 - Yeah, yeah, they've been told, not the full story 147 00:05:05,133 --> 00:05:06,533 not the full truth. 148 00:05:06,533 --> 00:05:08,666 As war has a way of doing that, doesn't it? 149 00:05:08,666 --> 00:05:11,200 Not only during, but before, you know 150 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,566 in the run up to war, we're not told. 151 00:05:13,566 --> 00:05:15,733 - Think about the Iraq war as a great example of that, 152 00:05:15,733 --> 00:05:18,000 right, all the reporting on the Iraq war, 153 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:19,566 messages from people in political office 154 00:05:19,566 --> 00:05:20,733 about what we were doing. 155 00:05:20,733 --> 00:05:22,366 - All suspect, yeah, yeah. 156 00:05:22,366 --> 00:05:24,966 And you know, Vietnam too I guess. 157 00:05:24,966 --> 00:05:27,000 If you, you know, Gulf of Tonkin, 158 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:28,800 you know there's a lot of misinformation out there. 159 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,666 - This subject interested you specifically why? 160 00:05:32,666 --> 00:05:34,233 - I love these three characters but I think 161 00:05:34,233 --> 00:05:36,300 I grew up during the Vietnam era, you know, 162 00:05:36,300 --> 00:05:39,366 every night on TV, you know, this many soldiers died. 163 00:05:39,366 --> 00:05:42,000 You know it's always just the backdrop of my whole life 164 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,500 up to the time I was about 14. 165 00:05:45,933 --> 00:05:48,966 Watching the run up to the Iraq war was really painful, 166 00:05:48,966 --> 00:05:52,200 you know, I mean I remember reading all the same reporting 167 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,700 and go this doesn't make any sense logically, 168 00:05:55,700 --> 00:05:57,966 we know even their neighbors aren't afraid of them. 169 00:05:57,966 --> 00:06:00,666 But if this is true then maybe there is a problem. 170 00:06:00,666 --> 00:06:03,366 It was just such, and just to find out it was just 171 00:06:03,366 --> 00:06:06,666 all misinformation and then you look at the cost. 172 00:06:06,666 --> 00:06:11,266 Look at every time I see a vet walking on a prosthetic leg 173 00:06:11,266 --> 00:06:13,566 or has their arm, it just kind of, 174 00:06:13,566 --> 00:06:15,000 I get a little angry, you know? 175 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,200 I just think that was a very avoidable war. 176 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,200 And I think the culture kind of 177 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,300 came around to that eventually. 178 00:06:21,300 --> 00:06:24,100 But in the leadup, that's what was so frustrating. 179 00:06:24,100 --> 00:06:25,633 To me personally, it was like, 180 00:06:25,633 --> 00:06:28,966 oh if you're not, the way the dialogue gets kind of hijacked 181 00:06:28,966 --> 00:06:31,733 by you know, warmonger mentality. 182 00:06:33,733 --> 00:06:36,866 It's like if you weren't for the war, you were unpatriotic. 183 00:06:36,866 --> 00:06:38,400 Instead of like, can we just look at this 184 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,466 and like analyze it, do we have our best people on this? 185 00:06:41,466 --> 00:06:42,966 Is this war really necessary? 186 00:06:42,966 --> 00:06:44,433 - Well one of the things about this film honestly, 187 00:06:44,433 --> 00:06:47,233 and the timing of it is that we're in a national 188 00:06:47,233 --> 00:06:49,433 conversation about what is and is not 189 00:06:49,433 --> 00:06:51,200 patriotism at the moment, right? 190 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,100 And so the timing of this film against that backdrop 191 00:06:54,100 --> 00:06:56,366 is kind of uncanny. 192 00:06:56,366 --> 00:06:57,900 - Yeah, we've seen this, it bubbles up 193 00:06:57,900 --> 00:06:59,466 fairly regularly, you know. 194 00:06:59,466 --> 00:07:03,233 Who owns the flag, what is patriotism. 195 00:07:03,233 --> 00:07:04,900 You know it's usually it's a good way 196 00:07:04,900 --> 00:07:08,266 to shut down protests, is to question their 197 00:07:08,266 --> 00:07:11,133 you know, their patriotism or just you know. 198 00:07:11,133 --> 00:07:12,366 - But even the flag is a symbol. 199 00:07:12,366 --> 00:07:14,666 I've heard you tell the story of as a kid 200 00:07:14,666 --> 00:07:17,466 being chosen to be the one to raise the flag at school. 201 00:07:17,466 --> 00:07:19,700 And having to learn about all the procedures. 202 00:07:19,700 --> 00:07:20,633 Talk about that. 203 00:07:20,633 --> 00:07:22,233 - Yeah, I was very proud there. 204 00:07:22,233 --> 00:07:23,633 I'd get to get out of class a little early 205 00:07:23,633 --> 00:07:25,033 and you know, take it down. 206 00:07:25,033 --> 00:07:26,566 I had to get there early and put it up 207 00:07:26,566 --> 00:07:28,633 and if it started to rain I could jump out of class 208 00:07:28,633 --> 00:07:30,333 because the flag couldn't get wet. 209 00:07:30,333 --> 00:07:31,633 And now you're driving down the highway, 210 00:07:31,633 --> 00:07:34,100 there's these huge flags just in the rain. 211 00:07:34,100 --> 00:07:35,366 - [Evan] Car dealers, you're right. 212 00:07:35,366 --> 00:07:36,833 - You know, no one cares about that. 213 00:07:36,833 --> 00:07:38,466 But way back then, what days to fly it at half mast, 214 00:07:38,466 --> 00:07:39,966 when J Edgar Hoover died, 215 00:07:39,966 --> 00:07:42,366 you know maybe we should fly it at half mast. 216 00:07:42,366 --> 00:07:43,833 - Right, but there was also a period of time 217 00:07:43,833 --> 00:07:45,666 where the flag was treated as this sacred symbol 218 00:07:45,666 --> 00:07:47,866 and then all of a sudden it became running shorts. 219 00:07:47,866 --> 00:07:52,133 - Yeah, by the early 70s, yeah, shoes and you know, 220 00:07:52,133 --> 00:07:54,233 you could kind of wear the flag that was kind of cool. 221 00:07:54,233 --> 00:07:56,733 But ironic I guess, but. 222 00:07:56,733 --> 00:07:58,166 - We now seem to be back in a place 223 00:07:58,166 --> 00:08:00,633 where the flag as symbol, people are actually 224 00:08:00,633 --> 00:08:02,333 objecting to the more casual use of it 225 00:08:02,333 --> 00:08:03,866 and so we're back to that. 226 00:08:03,866 --> 00:08:05,666 - Yeah we're back to kind of that blind patriotic-- 227 00:08:05,666 --> 00:08:06,900 - To an earlier time. 228 00:08:06,900 --> 00:08:08,100 The other thing about this film I must say 229 00:08:08,100 --> 00:08:09,766 that I thought sitting there watching it, 230 00:08:09,766 --> 00:08:12,733 uncanny timing was this movie is coming 231 00:08:12,733 --> 00:08:14,800 and you couldn't have known this. 232 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,933 You had the four service members in Niger 233 00:08:16,933 --> 00:08:18,733 who were killed, and the conversation around 234 00:08:18,733 --> 00:08:21,533 specifically this brave young man who was killed, 235 00:08:21,533 --> 00:08:26,266 La David Johnson and his body or the conversation 236 00:08:26,266 --> 00:08:28,433 I should say about his death between the president 237 00:08:28,433 --> 00:08:30,333 and his widow, with the congresswoman in the car 238 00:08:30,333 --> 00:08:31,866 and then subsequently the chief of staff 239 00:08:31,866 --> 00:08:35,000 talking about, I mean that is really, 240 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,133 basically, this movie. 241 00:08:37,133 --> 00:08:38,066 - I know, we were making a movie 242 00:08:38,066 --> 00:08:39,466 that we thought was showing you 243 00:08:39,466 --> 00:08:40,733 what they don't want you to see 244 00:08:40,733 --> 00:08:43,366 or really think about, the behind the scenes. 245 00:08:43,366 --> 00:08:45,300 Well yeah there's a death over there 246 00:08:45,300 --> 00:08:48,266 there's a body transported, the family greets it, 247 00:08:48,266 --> 00:08:50,100 there's a burial, it's all that stuff. 248 00:08:50,100 --> 00:08:51,433 - And there are questions about what happened. 249 00:08:51,433 --> 00:08:52,833 - Yeah, same thing. 250 00:08:52,833 --> 00:08:55,000 Can you see the body? No, you can't. 251 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,866 The poor widow's going, I don't even 252 00:08:56,866 --> 00:08:59,800 know if that's him in there. 253 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:01,100 - And then it turns out you say, 254 00:09:01,100 --> 00:09:02,066 no in fact, if you want to see it, 255 00:09:02,066 --> 00:09:03,600 we advise you not to see it, 256 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,033 but you can see it. 257 00:09:05,033 --> 00:09:07,066 And in this movie indeed, same thing happens. 258 00:09:07,066 --> 00:09:09,433 - Yeah, same mysterious death under, 259 00:09:09,433 --> 00:09:12,100 you know they're saying it's one thing 260 00:09:12,100 --> 00:09:13,766 it's something else. 261 00:09:15,066 --> 00:09:16,200 - I mean it was eerie. 262 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:17,433 - It's PR spin. - Considering the news. 263 00:09:17,433 --> 00:09:18,666 - Yeah, like I said, we thought it was 264 00:09:18,666 --> 00:09:21,800 behind the scenes and here the General Kelly's 265 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,700 kind of walking you through the Dover Air Force base. 266 00:09:24,700 --> 00:09:27,366 That whole experience, yeah it's 267 00:09:32,233 --> 00:09:33,433 it's creepy. 268 00:09:33,433 --> 00:09:34,633 - How much of what we saw in the, 269 00:09:34,633 --> 00:09:36,933 so there is a section of this film 270 00:09:36,933 --> 00:09:39,933 where they go finally to retrieve the body. 271 00:09:39,933 --> 00:09:41,933 So the portion that we saw, 272 00:09:41,933 --> 00:09:45,700 the official you know, go see the coffin 273 00:09:45,700 --> 00:09:47,133 and all that sort of stuff. 274 00:09:47,133 --> 00:09:49,866 How much is that literally, did you research that 275 00:09:49,866 --> 00:09:50,800 so that it's like mirror-- 276 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,033 - Yeah, we had military advisors 277 00:09:52,033 --> 00:09:53,666 we had guys who had been on those kind of 278 00:09:53,666 --> 00:09:56,733 mortuary escort details and you just try to get 279 00:09:56,733 --> 00:09:59,000 all that right, and you know, me 280 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:00,533 because I don't have a military background, 281 00:10:00,533 --> 00:10:03,966 I mean my dad was in the Navy, Korean war, 282 00:10:03,966 --> 00:10:06,300 but he didn't talk about it that much. 283 00:10:06,300 --> 00:10:10,333 And I was the era they had just quit the draft so 284 00:10:10,333 --> 00:10:13,400 guys my age we were like, war was in the rear view mirror. 285 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,833 And it wasn't really a thing. 286 00:10:17,466 --> 00:10:19,533 We were just kind of free from that. 287 00:10:19,533 --> 00:10:21,200 - I wondered about that as I thought about this film. 288 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:22,966 You said your dad was in the Navy. 289 00:10:22,966 --> 00:10:25,333 - Everybody's dad had a hitch in the military. 290 00:10:25,333 --> 00:10:26,733 - Steve Carell's dad was in World War II 291 00:10:26,733 --> 00:10:27,733 was he not, right? 292 00:10:27,733 --> 00:10:29,233 - Yeah. 293 00:10:29,233 --> 00:10:31,100 - And Laurence Fishburne, well he made Apocalypse Now. 294 00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:33,700 - Yeah, he's in a lot of military movies. 295 00:10:33,700 --> 00:10:35,966 - In some ways, it's the most authentic. 296 00:10:35,966 --> 00:10:37,166 - Laurence even says, I served. 297 00:10:37,166 --> 00:10:40,700 I wasn't in the military but I kind of was. 298 00:10:42,166 --> 00:10:44,766 - A lot of people today don't have the experience 299 00:10:44,766 --> 00:10:47,200 of having a connection to the military. 300 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:48,733 I come back to John Kelly again 301 00:10:48,733 --> 00:10:50,600 in the briefing room on that day when he did that 302 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,666 and he said I'm only gonna call on people who know somebody 303 00:10:52,666 --> 00:10:54,233 or have a connection to the military and it really, 304 00:10:54,233 --> 00:10:56,300 this generation of people there are not that many 305 00:10:56,300 --> 00:10:57,833 with a connection. 306 00:10:57,833 --> 00:11:01,400 - Big disconnect, you know, post doing away with the draft 307 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,800 big disconnect between, yeah. 308 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,000 It's like there's a class, like a warrior class has emerged. 309 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:10,533 - I want to talk about the people in the film. 310 00:11:10,533 --> 00:11:12,166 So you've not worked with Carell before. 311 00:11:12,166 --> 00:11:13,400 - No, none of these guys. 312 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:14,766 - Not worked with Bryan Cranston, 313 00:11:14,766 --> 00:11:15,966 not worked with Fishburne, although you're 314 00:11:15,966 --> 00:11:17,500 making another film with Fishburne? 315 00:11:17,500 --> 00:11:19,000 - He's in my latest film, I shot a film this summer 316 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,666 that he has a part in, yeah. - That will be out next year. 317 00:11:22,666 --> 00:11:25,066 I think of Carell as a particular personality 318 00:11:25,066 --> 00:11:27,500 mostly from The Office but from the persona 319 00:11:27,500 --> 00:11:28,733 that he's developed. 320 00:11:28,733 --> 00:11:30,900 I think of Fishburne in a certain way, 321 00:11:30,900 --> 00:11:32,666 and I think of Bryan Cranston in a certain way. 322 00:11:32,666 --> 00:11:35,000 And I felt like each was playing against type weirdly 323 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:35,933 in this film. 324 00:11:35,933 --> 00:11:37,400 - Something a little different. 325 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,100 - Like Bryan Cranston is kind of the coarse wild guy. 326 00:11:40,100 --> 00:11:41,133 - Yeah, he's insane. 327 00:11:41,133 --> 00:11:42,733 (audience laughter) 328 00:11:42,733 --> 00:11:44,833 - Is not Walter White, he's not 329 00:11:44,833 --> 00:11:46,466 the Bryan Cranston we've seen 330 00:11:46,466 --> 00:11:47,766 and I think same with the other guys. 331 00:11:47,766 --> 00:11:48,733 - He's so funny. 332 00:11:48,733 --> 00:11:49,566 Bryan's really hilarious. 333 00:11:49,566 --> 00:11:51,066 - God, he's rally funny. 334 00:11:51,066 --> 00:11:53,666 - If I were to ask you which of my cast members did stand up 335 00:11:53,666 --> 00:11:56,833 in the 80s, you would probably say Carell, right? 336 00:11:56,833 --> 00:11:58,066 He's the funny guy. 337 00:11:58,066 --> 00:11:59,933 Not true, Carell never did stand up. 338 00:11:59,933 --> 00:12:00,800 - [Evan] It was Cranston? 339 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:01,800 - Cranston. 340 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,133 When he was just beginning he had 341 00:12:04,133 --> 00:12:06,233 he did stand up. 342 00:12:06,233 --> 00:12:07,700 - Well he was genuinely funny in this movie 343 00:12:07,700 --> 00:12:09,833 and I think the three of them separately and together 344 00:12:09,833 --> 00:12:11,100 worked extremely well. 345 00:12:11,100 --> 00:12:13,000 - Yeah and they really really respected 346 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:14,233 and loved one another. 347 00:12:14,233 --> 00:12:16,500 Each one when I was in the run up to the movie 348 00:12:16,500 --> 00:12:18,566 they were like, they really were looking forward 349 00:12:18,566 --> 00:12:19,933 to working with the other two. 350 00:12:19,933 --> 00:12:21,066 Lot of respect there. 351 00:12:21,066 --> 00:12:22,000 - [Evan] And the respect that they shared 352 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:23,533 was evident I think in this. 353 00:12:23,533 --> 00:12:25,300 - They really bonded, which was important for the movie. 354 00:12:25,300 --> 00:12:27,266 - The kid who is in the film who was serving 355 00:12:27,266 --> 00:12:30,166 in the Iraq war with the son. 356 00:12:30,166 --> 00:12:31,600 - Quinton Johnson. 357 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:33,033 - His name is Quinton Johnson, who served with the son 358 00:12:33,033 --> 00:12:36,566 of Steve Carell, the character who was killed. 359 00:12:36,566 --> 00:12:37,733 Wasn't everybody-- 360 00:12:37,733 --> 00:12:38,933 - Yeah, I have worked with him before. 361 00:12:38,933 --> 00:12:41,900 - He was, and boy he was also just terrific. 362 00:12:41,900 --> 00:12:43,366 - He's a wonderful actor, you know, 363 00:12:43,366 --> 00:12:47,066 he's starring on Broadway right now in Hamilton. 364 00:12:47,066 --> 00:12:48,566 - [Evan] I did not know that, is that right, seriously? 365 00:12:48,566 --> 00:12:49,866 - He's big time. 366 00:12:49,866 --> 00:12:54,066 He was at University of Texas Theater, you know. 367 00:12:54,066 --> 00:12:55,100 Musical Theater Major. 368 00:12:55,100 --> 00:12:56,933 - UT Austin, kid made good. 369 00:12:56,933 --> 00:12:58,933 - Yeah, he was the McConaughey out of that one. 370 00:12:58,933 --> 00:13:02,066 - But I thought his, he was memorable though 371 00:13:02,066 --> 00:13:03,700 in your last film and he's certainly memorable in this. 372 00:13:03,700 --> 00:13:06,633 The two others I wanted to just note. 373 00:13:06,633 --> 00:13:08,300 Cicely Tyson is in this movie. 374 00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:10,766 - Yeah, 92 year old Cicely. 375 00:13:10,766 --> 00:13:14,233 - And it's one scene, Ms. Tyson's in this one scene, 376 00:13:14,233 --> 00:13:17,100 it's a pivotal scene in terms of the narrative of the film 377 00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:19,000 but I kept sitting there watching it going, 378 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,066 that's not actually Cicely Tyson. 379 00:13:22,066 --> 00:13:23,433 So how did that happen? 380 00:13:23,433 --> 00:13:25,100 Did you go looking for her? 381 00:13:25,100 --> 00:13:26,933 - Well ultimately yeah, I was just kind of, 382 00:13:26,933 --> 00:13:29,533 it's a funny story, how does someone end up in your movie. 383 00:13:29,533 --> 00:13:32,400 I was just, it wasn't really written for an African American 384 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,000 woman but I was kind of day dreaming the movie 385 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,433 I was just kind of, we were starting to rehearse 386 00:13:37,433 --> 00:13:39,400 that part wasn't for a long time 387 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,066 but it was time to you know, start thinking about casting 388 00:13:43,066 --> 00:13:44,733 and I was just imagining the scene 389 00:13:44,733 --> 00:13:46,233 and the door opens and the door opened 390 00:13:46,233 --> 00:13:48,033 and it was Cicely Tyson's face. 391 00:13:48,033 --> 00:13:49,566 - In your head? 392 00:13:49,566 --> 00:13:52,600 - Yeah, and I said oh something's telling me something. 393 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,433 I said oh wow, so I talked to Laurence 394 00:13:55,433 --> 00:13:57,100 because he had worked with her a couple times 395 00:13:57,100 --> 00:13:59,500 and he said oh just go, you know, look her up. 396 00:13:59,500 --> 00:14:00,400 - [Evan] Just ask, right. 397 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:01,466 - I'm like, really? 398 00:14:01,466 --> 00:14:03,900 You can just, yeah it's like. 399 00:14:03,900 --> 00:14:05,466 You know ninety-whatever year. 400 00:14:05,466 --> 00:14:06,700 They don't get a lot of offers, but-- 401 00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:08,766 (audience laughter) 402 00:14:08,766 --> 00:14:11,166 I thought she might want to work with the people, 403 00:14:11,166 --> 00:14:12,400 you never know. 404 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:13,866 So I kind of floated the script to her 405 00:14:13,866 --> 00:14:16,166 and sure enough, I went and had breakfast with her. 406 00:14:16,166 --> 00:14:17,500 - And she was good with it, yeah? 407 00:14:17,500 --> 00:14:18,766 - Yeah, yeah, she's great. 408 00:14:18,766 --> 00:14:19,933 - Had she been familiar with your, 409 00:14:19,933 --> 00:14:21,400 I bet she's a big Dazed and Confused fan. 410 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,000 - Yeah, big Dazed and Confused fan. 411 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,766 (audience laughter) 412 00:14:25,766 --> 00:14:27,866 No she was really really sweet 413 00:14:27,866 --> 00:14:29,733 and really with it. 414 00:14:29,733 --> 00:14:30,933 - You proved the point though that 415 00:14:30,933 --> 00:14:32,566 you get nothing in this life without asking. 416 00:14:32,566 --> 00:14:34,066 You know one day, it pops into your head 417 00:14:34,066 --> 00:14:35,300 I want Cicely Tyson in the doorway. 418 00:14:35,300 --> 00:14:36,433 - I think earlier I would have thought 419 00:14:36,433 --> 00:14:37,366 that wasn't an option but it's like, 420 00:14:37,366 --> 00:14:39,233 well yeah, what is some of the, 421 00:14:39,233 --> 00:14:42,166 everybody actor or artist just wants to practice their art. 422 00:14:42,166 --> 00:14:44,300 Sure enough, she's very political 423 00:14:44,300 --> 00:14:46,400 she's got a lot of causes she's very involved in. 424 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,233 But she wants to work, and in fact she called me up with, 425 00:14:49,233 --> 00:14:52,100 as a few months ago she had a project she was getting 426 00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:53,733 off the ground interested in if I was, 427 00:14:53,733 --> 00:14:55,233 you know she's hustling, she's out there. 428 00:14:55,233 --> 00:14:56,466 - Like everybody else. 429 00:14:56,466 --> 00:14:58,600 - Just hustling got that next thing going. 430 00:14:58,600 --> 00:14:59,733 (audience laughter) 431 00:14:59,733 --> 00:15:01,000 - Cicely Tyson hustling is the thing 432 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,466 I'm gonna take away from this conversation. 433 00:15:02,466 --> 00:15:04,866 - There's a lesson there. 434 00:15:04,866 --> 00:15:07,833 - The other person is the one I actually did not know 435 00:15:07,833 --> 00:15:09,066 and I went and looked up his name 436 00:15:09,066 --> 00:15:10,000 because I thought he was so good, 437 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,233 his name is Yul Vazquez, right? 438 00:15:11,233 --> 00:15:13,933 And he plays the marine commander or officer. 439 00:15:13,933 --> 00:15:14,766 - Colonel. - Colonel. 440 00:15:14,766 --> 00:15:15,966 - Yeah, Colonel Willits. 441 00:15:15,966 --> 00:15:18,033 - Who is at the, is at Dover, right? 442 00:15:18,033 --> 00:15:20,300 To greet the families of the fallen. 443 00:15:20,300 --> 00:15:23,433 And I just thought he was absolutely, he was fantastic. 444 00:15:23,433 --> 00:15:24,300 - Oh yeah, he's intense. 445 00:15:24,300 --> 00:15:25,466 - Where'd you find him? 446 00:15:25,466 --> 00:15:26,833 - He's a Cuban American actor I knew from 447 00:15:26,833 --> 00:15:28,900 primarily New York theater circles. 448 00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:30,200 I'd seen him in a number of plays. 449 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,900 He's in a lot of movies, he was at a reading 450 00:15:32,900 --> 00:15:34,666 a couple years ago, Ethan Hawke and I were just doing 451 00:15:34,666 --> 00:15:37,466 a reading of a script we're working on and he was there 452 00:15:37,466 --> 00:15:38,900 and I got to talking to him. 453 00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:41,400 This guy's intense, you know, I just really liked him. 454 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:42,633 He was funny-- 455 00:15:42,633 --> 00:15:43,800 - Well he was extremely intense in this part. 456 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:44,733 - Very funny, really great actor, 457 00:15:44,733 --> 00:15:46,233 intense, all these things. 458 00:15:46,233 --> 00:15:47,966 So again, you go to cast, and like who could play, 459 00:15:47,966 --> 00:15:51,433 I said you know, I'll call up old Yul see if he wants to 460 00:15:51,433 --> 00:15:53,766 play that part and he had worked with Cranston 461 00:15:53,766 --> 00:15:55,833 on other things so it was great 462 00:15:55,833 --> 00:15:56,966 because they're kind of, 463 00:15:56,966 --> 00:15:58,466 they've got each others' number in this. 464 00:15:58,466 --> 00:16:02,100 So that was fun that they renewed their old, you know. 465 00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:03,600 Rivalry or whatever it was. 466 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,566 - So this interested me, come back to this question 467 00:16:05,566 --> 00:16:06,666 of the timing of this. 468 00:16:06,666 --> 00:16:08,000 I walked away from this thinking 469 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,666 this was a deeply political film. 470 00:16:09,666 --> 00:16:12,866 But I don't know you to be a political filmmaker over time. 471 00:16:12,866 --> 00:16:14,533 I can't think of another film that you've done 472 00:16:14,533 --> 00:16:17,366 that either, intentionally or not, 473 00:16:18,433 --> 00:16:20,100 may be perceived as political. 474 00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:21,966 Do you view it that way? 475 00:16:21,966 --> 00:16:24,733 - Yeah, I think we're definitely in a political landscape. 476 00:16:24,733 --> 00:16:26,200 I mean there's nothing more political 477 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,500 than taking a country to war, right? 478 00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:31,900 And that's the world this is in. 479 00:16:31,900 --> 00:16:34,400 So I think it's a minefield of politics 480 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,666 and these issues of patriotism. 481 00:16:37,666 --> 00:16:40,800 But I think it acknowledged the political 482 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,566 nature of it but then as a storyteller here, 483 00:16:43,566 --> 00:16:45,700 I was just thinking I want to really honor 484 00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:47,833 my characters' points of view. 485 00:16:47,833 --> 00:16:49,566 I want to, you know, I have my own politics 486 00:16:49,566 --> 00:16:51,533 we all do, but-- 487 00:16:51,533 --> 00:16:53,500 - Do you leave those off the screen? 488 00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:55,400 - You can't completely, but I like 489 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,933 the subject matter to me hit the. 490 00:16:58,933 --> 00:17:00,600 The question I was asking, can you be anti-war 491 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,800 and still love your country and love your flag 492 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,166 and be patriotic. 493 00:17:05,166 --> 00:17:07,366 And I think the answer's yes. 494 00:17:07,366 --> 00:17:09,866 So to me that movie, and honor those who 495 00:17:09,866 --> 00:17:12,533 put their lives on the line for their country. 496 00:17:12,533 --> 00:17:14,633 Just, you know, the unfortunate fact 497 00:17:14,633 --> 00:17:16,366 that it's often not reciprocated. 498 00:17:16,366 --> 00:17:19,566 That gift that thing they're sacrificing for their country 499 00:17:19,566 --> 00:17:24,533 is not reciprocated you know, from the top of the command 500 00:17:24,533 --> 00:17:27,700 on down when you hear Donald Rumsfeld 501 00:17:27,700 --> 00:17:30,800 is using a signature machine to send the letters 502 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,233 to the gold star families, instead of, 503 00:17:33,233 --> 00:17:37,133 he doesn't have time himself to sign the letters. 504 00:17:37,133 --> 00:17:39,266 That kind of, you know, that tells you all you need to know 505 00:17:39,266 --> 00:17:41,066 about how they view-- 506 00:17:41,066 --> 00:17:42,333 - Well these characters though, in the film, 507 00:17:42,333 --> 00:17:45,633 I think very, I think in a really appropriate way 508 00:17:45,633 --> 00:17:48,500 convey their ambivalence. 509 00:17:48,500 --> 00:17:52,433 The Bryan Cranston character particularly, you know, 510 00:17:52,433 --> 00:17:54,800 is this rascaly guy. 511 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,133 He says at one point, you know, we'd go again 512 00:17:57,133 --> 00:17:58,233 if we were asked to go. 513 00:17:58,233 --> 00:18:00,633 If we could go, right? 514 00:18:00,633 --> 00:18:02,900 Men make wars and wars make men is what he says. 515 00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:04,166 It has this-- - He says that kind of 516 00:18:04,166 --> 00:18:06,233 like in a sad way, you know, 517 00:18:06,233 --> 00:18:07,700 this will never end way. 518 00:18:07,700 --> 00:18:10,333 - But it's true, he acknowledges what a conflict 519 00:18:10,333 --> 00:18:13,133 you have within yourself about this experience of serving. 520 00:18:13,133 --> 00:18:14,566 - And I don't think it's a contradiction, 521 00:18:14,566 --> 00:18:16,500 like those could be the best years of his life 522 00:18:16,500 --> 00:18:20,500 when he felt the most alive and you know, 523 00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:21,766 he just felt that brotherhood, 524 00:18:21,766 --> 00:18:23,466 that connection, his life had a purpose. 525 00:18:23,466 --> 00:18:27,033 And now as a self-medicating PTSD survivor, 526 00:18:28,433 --> 00:18:31,000 whatever long-term, you know he runs 527 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:32,433 a bar and everything, and he would. 528 00:18:32,433 --> 00:18:33,900 Those were the best years, but he can also be 529 00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:36,733 extremely critical of this war and the last one. 530 00:18:36,733 --> 00:18:38,800 He's kind of earned the right, you know? 531 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:40,133 I think no one complains more about the military 532 00:18:40,133 --> 00:18:42,500 than the military themselves. 533 00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:44,400 They're in it, you know? 534 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:45,833 They're stuck in this big bureaucracy, 535 00:18:45,833 --> 00:18:47,100 everyone's a little screwed over 536 00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:50,533 but that doesn't alter their commitment. 537 00:18:50,533 --> 00:18:51,700 - I want to, on this question, 538 00:18:51,700 --> 00:18:53,400 we have a certain number of minutes left, 539 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,166 I want to pivot a little bit to a broader 540 00:18:55,166 --> 00:18:56,366 conversation about you. 541 00:18:56,366 --> 00:18:57,833 So you're in your fourth decade making films. 542 00:18:57,833 --> 00:18:58,866 - I guess so. 543 00:18:58,866 --> 00:18:59,933 80s, 90s. 544 00:18:59,933 --> 00:19:00,833 - For our consumption. 545 00:19:00,833 --> 00:19:02,033 - Yeah. 546 00:19:02,033 --> 00:19:03,766 - On this question of earning the right, 547 00:19:03,766 --> 00:19:06,000 you've earned the right at this point, 548 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,933 partly because the amount of time you've been doing this 549 00:19:07,933 --> 00:19:10,066 and partly because of the success of your films 550 00:19:10,066 --> 00:19:12,000 to work with the people you want to work with. 551 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,000 And I'm as interested in the people we don't see 552 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,200 as the people we do. 553 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,766 You have a crew of folks, a literal crew, 554 00:19:17,766 --> 00:19:20,566 who you return to maybe not every film, 555 00:19:20,566 --> 00:19:23,466 but repeatedly from the editor Sandra Adair-- 556 00:19:23,466 --> 00:19:25,000 - Yeah, we're in our 25th year. 557 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,466 - All the way down, 558 00:19:26,466 --> 00:19:27,833 and I just wondered if you could talk about that. 559 00:19:27,833 --> 00:19:29,500 You know, you get comfortable with certain people 560 00:19:29,500 --> 00:19:31,466 as you get older, doing the kind of work that you do. 561 00:19:31,466 --> 00:19:33,000 And it extends into casting 562 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,833 of course you've got people in the Linklater company 563 00:19:34,833 --> 00:19:36,466 who appear in your films a lot. 564 00:19:36,466 --> 00:19:37,700 - Well, you'd hope so. 565 00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:41,333 That's the, if I had one regret in this 566 00:19:41,333 --> 00:19:44,900 life in film it's that there's so many great people 567 00:19:44,900 --> 00:19:47,366 that you don't, like a cast, someone you work with, 568 00:19:47,366 --> 00:19:49,633 and it's just great and they don't find their way 569 00:19:49,633 --> 00:19:51,133 back in another movie. 570 00:19:51,133 --> 00:19:53,266 Because they're not right or they're not the right age 571 00:19:53,266 --> 00:19:54,533 or whatever. - Can you give me an example 572 00:19:54,533 --> 00:19:55,566 of somebody who would fit in that category? 573 00:19:55,566 --> 00:19:56,800 Somebody-- 574 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,233 - Oh there's so many, a lot of the Dazed cast. 575 00:19:58,233 --> 00:19:59,433 I wouldn't have thought I wouldn't have worked with again. 576 00:19:59,433 --> 00:20:00,966 I mean I thought I would have worked with 577 00:20:00,966 --> 00:20:02,233 and I'm surprised I haven't. 578 00:20:02,233 --> 00:20:03,466 - Right, some you have and some you haven't. 579 00:20:03,466 --> 00:20:04,900 - Yeah, and it just, it's kind of like, 580 00:20:04,900 --> 00:20:07,266 and that goes with so many. 581 00:20:07,266 --> 00:20:10,333 But it's wonderful when it does work out, 582 00:20:10,333 --> 00:20:13,433 when they are you know, right for something. 583 00:20:13,433 --> 00:20:15,000 And the same with crew, you kind of 584 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,866 catch a groove, maybe a little decade plus 585 00:20:17,866 --> 00:20:20,333 with some people and then you know 586 00:20:20,333 --> 00:20:21,266 some people's lives change, 587 00:20:21,266 --> 00:20:22,766 they move, they have, you know. 588 00:20:22,766 --> 00:20:24,800 Priorities shift and you know so you're kinda 589 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:26,566 ships slowly passing. 590 00:20:27,966 --> 00:20:32,233 Some people collaborate well for long periods of time 591 00:20:32,233 --> 00:20:33,400 sometimes you're one. 592 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:34,833 It's a pretty freelancey business 593 00:20:34,833 --> 00:20:37,900 but I do value the long term. 594 00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:39,766 - Well one of the things that I imagine must be true 595 00:20:39,766 --> 00:20:41,333 is that as a creative person 596 00:20:41,333 --> 00:20:44,766 you've got a lot of focus you have to devote 597 00:20:44,766 --> 00:20:46,766 to realizing your vision 598 00:20:46,766 --> 00:20:48,666 and how great it is to have people over here 599 00:20:48,666 --> 00:20:52,433 who you can trust to do all the other stuff. 600 00:20:52,433 --> 00:20:54,233 And often that only happens if you work with them over time 601 00:20:54,233 --> 00:20:55,500 right, where you just know how I work, 602 00:20:55,500 --> 00:20:57,433 I know how you work, we do this well together 603 00:20:57,433 --> 00:20:58,866 and that's it. 604 00:20:58,866 --> 00:21:01,633 - We were able to, these, Last Flag Flying, 605 00:21:01,633 --> 00:21:04,566 and the new one Where'd You Go Bernadette, 606 00:21:04,566 --> 00:21:07,233 the same department heads, the same people we were 607 00:21:07,233 --> 00:21:09,433 able to just take that into-- 608 00:21:09,433 --> 00:21:10,833 - [Evan] Just pick them up. 609 00:21:10,833 --> 00:21:13,300 - Yeah, and I have incredible trust with them 610 00:21:13,300 --> 00:21:15,133 you know, Bruce Curtis my production designer, 611 00:21:15,133 --> 00:21:17,666 Shane Kelly my DP, Sandra the editor, 612 00:21:17,666 --> 00:21:19,866 Kari Perkins costume director, 613 00:21:19,866 --> 00:21:21,566 Ginger Sledge producer. 614 00:21:21,566 --> 00:21:23,233 - How long have you worked with Ginger Sledge, 615 00:21:23,233 --> 00:21:24,833 I mean that goes back, that's got to go back-- 616 00:21:24,833 --> 00:21:27,400 - Over twenty years now. 617 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:28,766 Different capacities. 618 00:21:28,766 --> 00:21:29,766 - Is the studio relationship also at this point 619 00:21:29,766 --> 00:21:31,433 stable from your perspective? 620 00:21:31,433 --> 00:21:32,633 Do you feel like something has happened 621 00:21:32,633 --> 00:21:34,566 where that has leveled out a little bit? 622 00:21:34,566 --> 00:21:36,466 - No, the financing thing's always a bit 623 00:21:36,466 --> 00:21:38,500 catch a sketch kind of. 624 00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:40,366 I'm very lucky right now to have done 625 00:21:40,366 --> 00:21:42,633 my last few films with Annapurna. 626 00:21:42,633 --> 00:21:43,900 - [Evan] Annapurna, right. 627 00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:46,166 - And Amazon Studios, with Last Flag. 628 00:21:46,166 --> 00:21:47,733 And they give you just enough, 629 00:21:47,733 --> 00:21:49,000 it's still we're kind of low budget 630 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,166 by their standards but just enough of a budget 631 00:21:52,166 --> 00:21:55,566 and a schedule to get it done properly 632 00:21:55,566 --> 00:21:56,566 where I had movies in the past, 633 00:21:56,566 --> 00:21:57,866 I would say like Bernie. 634 00:21:57,866 --> 00:22:00,166 We didn't quite have the budget and the schedule. 635 00:22:00,166 --> 00:22:01,733 I mean we made it work, 636 00:22:01,733 --> 00:22:03,600 but it's the difference between shooting a film 637 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,766 in 30 days versus 22 days. 638 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:07,633 I like 30. 639 00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:10,566 - If anybody's listening. 640 00:22:10,566 --> 00:22:11,933 - Yeah, it's a little nicer, but when you have, 641 00:22:11,933 --> 00:22:15,166 when you're meeting producers on your set 642 00:22:15,166 --> 00:22:18,200 for the first time who've invested 50 grand 643 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,800 in the movie and you have 30 whatever producers. 644 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,600 And that was a thrown together, 645 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,200 but you just do what you have to do to get it made. 646 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:26,900 - I think all of us though would sit out here 647 00:22:26,900 --> 00:22:30,066 thinking well Boyhood was this phenomenon. 648 00:22:30,066 --> 00:22:32,500 And it had all these academy award nominations 649 00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:34,400 and it had this, you know, everyone kept talking 650 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:35,900 about what an amazing thing it was. 651 00:22:35,900 --> 00:22:38,233 And you'd think, finally, as a consequence of that 652 00:22:38,233 --> 00:22:40,600 that I'm gonna get the latitude to do whatever I want 653 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,000 with whatever money I want, on whatever schedule I want. 654 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,933 And that's the romantic ideal. 655 00:22:44,933 --> 00:22:48,700 - Yeah, but it, it definitely helps. 656 00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:51,833 You know, definitely I think you always have a, 657 00:22:51,833 --> 00:22:55,166 there's a temperature to yourself in the industry 658 00:22:55,166 --> 00:22:58,233 and I was happy to, you know, after that 659 00:22:58,233 --> 00:23:01,766 I've gotten three additional movies made that were all 660 00:23:01,766 --> 00:23:04,566 kind of difficult to make so I'm-- 661 00:23:04,566 --> 00:23:06,366 - So maybe it did have a positive aspect to it. 662 00:23:06,366 --> 00:23:08,166 - Yeah, it definitely doesn't hurt. 663 00:23:08,166 --> 00:23:09,766 - What can you say about this new movie? 664 00:23:09,766 --> 00:23:11,466 What are you willing to say about the new movie? 665 00:23:11,466 --> 00:23:12,300 - Oh that we're editing now? 666 00:23:12,300 --> 00:23:13,133 - Yeah. 667 00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:17,600 - This was kind of a mid-life movie, 668 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,666 you know with these guys, middle-aged. 669 00:23:20,666 --> 00:23:22,400 And I've done that kind of much more 670 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:23,700 from a female perspective. 671 00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:27,533 It's Cate Blanchett, Kristen Wiig, and-- 672 00:23:27,533 --> 00:23:29,000 - Again, people you've not worked with before. 673 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,233 - No, no, but I'm very blessed to. 674 00:23:32,233 --> 00:23:35,400 So yeah, it's a woman's movie. Mid-life. 675 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:36,500 - So you're still enjoying doing this? 676 00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:38,133 - Yeah, are you kidding? 677 00:23:38,133 --> 00:23:39,900 It's fun, yeah, I can't think of any, 678 00:23:39,900 --> 00:23:41,666 I haven't figured out anything else to do. 679 00:23:41,666 --> 00:23:42,500 - Well but, you know-- 680 00:23:42,500 --> 00:23:44,000 (audience laughter) 681 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,600 But I do think about the challenges over the years 682 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,133 that you and other filmmakers go through 683 00:23:49,133 --> 00:23:50,600 and the fact that the environment has changed, 684 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,266 studios have changed, distribution has changed, 685 00:23:52,266 --> 00:23:53,766 I mean you mentioned the Amazon Studios piece, 686 00:23:53,766 --> 00:23:56,733 I did notice that Amazon was part of this last one 687 00:23:56,733 --> 00:23:58,533 like you said, it's part of the next one as well. 688 00:23:58,533 --> 00:24:00,966 The introduction of those players onto the scene, 689 00:24:00,966 --> 00:24:02,166 - It's great. 690 00:24:02,166 --> 00:24:03,366 - It actually creates this whole other-- 691 00:24:03,366 --> 00:24:05,433 - Yeah, no, it's a good time, I look around, 692 00:24:05,433 --> 00:24:07,466 filmmaker friends I would run into 693 00:24:07,466 --> 00:24:08,600 maybe seven, eight years ago, 694 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:09,733 we look at each other we go, 695 00:24:09,733 --> 00:24:12,066 is it, it's like, it's horrible. 696 00:24:12,066 --> 00:24:14,633 You know like no one's funding the kind of films we make. 697 00:24:14,633 --> 00:24:17,800 And it was tough and now, I go, can we just acknowledge 698 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,800 this is the good time, because it's not gonna last. 699 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,633 It didn't seem like it was the good time. 700 00:24:21,633 --> 00:24:24,533 - It's kind of like a life in crime or something. 701 00:24:24,533 --> 00:24:27,400 You catch a streak and then at some point you get busted 702 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:28,600 and you have to go away for a while. 703 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,200 And you come back, get the crew together, 704 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,466 and do some more jobs. 705 00:24:33,466 --> 00:24:36,600 - But that's on the front end, right? 706 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,133 But I actually, of course, was thinking 707 00:24:38,133 --> 00:24:40,000 as much about the back end where all of a sudden now 708 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,866 there are so many more places for us on demand to see films. 709 00:24:43,866 --> 00:24:45,500 - Well studios are making, technically, 710 00:24:45,500 --> 00:24:47,800 less films, they're just huge. 711 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,233 But it leaves a lot of room and there's a lot of people 712 00:24:50,233 --> 00:24:51,733 filling that. 713 00:24:51,733 --> 00:24:53,000 - Is that something you have any interest in doing 714 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,600 if they came to you and said we want you to make 715 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,166 a superhero movie, would you do it? 716 00:24:56,166 --> 00:24:57,466 - No, every now and then, believe it or not, 717 00:24:57,466 --> 00:24:59,933 something floats my way but I never, I don't-- 718 00:24:59,933 --> 00:25:03,233 - It hasn't even appealed to you just a little bit? 719 00:25:03,233 --> 00:25:05,433 - No, no, I got too many things I'm trying. 720 00:25:05,433 --> 00:25:07,833 I'm probably not the right, I've passed on a lot of movies 721 00:25:07,833 --> 00:25:11,266 that I just, I go I'm not the right person. 722 00:25:11,266 --> 00:25:13,566 But the things that have come to me outside myself, 723 00:25:13,566 --> 00:25:16,133 you know I write a lot of original screenplays and stuff 724 00:25:16,133 --> 00:25:19,966 but the ones that I'm adapting a book or something, 725 00:25:19,966 --> 00:25:21,533 you know, you want to feel you're the, 726 00:25:21,533 --> 00:25:23,466 you have a sensibility, like you're the only one. 727 00:25:23,466 --> 00:25:26,066 Like I can tell this story in a way no one else can. 728 00:25:26,066 --> 00:25:28,333 You got to feel that way. 729 00:25:28,333 --> 00:25:29,533 - Self-awareness is a good thing. 730 00:25:29,533 --> 00:25:31,166 - And then if I go, well I think someone else 731 00:25:31,166 --> 00:25:32,933 can tell this better than I can? 732 00:25:32,933 --> 00:25:33,866 - Pass. 733 00:25:33,866 --> 00:25:35,366 - Yeah, then what're you doing? 734 00:25:35,366 --> 00:25:38,600 And I feel that way about almost, so many things. 735 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,700 So but, the ones that get me get me. 736 00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:43,166 Those are the ones I want to try-- 737 00:25:43,166 --> 00:25:44,533 - It's exciting to get to talk about this stuff with you 738 00:25:44,533 --> 00:25:45,933 whenever we get a chance to. 739 00:25:45,933 --> 00:25:48,466 I appreciate you coming over and thank you 740 00:25:48,466 --> 00:25:49,500 and congratulations on the film. 741 00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:51,000 - Oh thank you, Evan. 742 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,366 - Alright, Rick Linklater, good, thanks very much. 743 00:25:52,366 --> 00:25:55,066 (audience applause) 744 00:25:55,066 --> 00:25:56,733 - [Announcer] We'd love to have you join us in the studio. 745 00:25:56,733 --> 00:26:00,900 Visit our website at KLRU.org/overheard to find 746 00:26:02,100 --> 00:26:03,800 invitations to interviews, Q and As 747 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,400 with our audience and guests, 748 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,533 and an archive of past episodes. 749 00:26:08,533 --> 00:26:11,766 - I feel lucky that I haven't been that restless within it. 750 00:26:11,766 --> 00:26:13,200 But I've always been really happy, 751 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,066 I was just happy to move to Austin. 752 00:26:16,066 --> 00:26:17,366 That's all I wanted. 753 00:26:17,366 --> 00:26:18,900 Happy that the film studies doing, 754 00:26:18,900 --> 00:26:20,400 happy to get to make my next film, 755 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,033 I just keep it really simple. 756 00:26:23,033 --> 00:26:24,500 - [Evan] Uncomplicated. 757 00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:27,700 - Yeah, yeah, not get overly ambitious or complicate things. 758 00:26:27,700 --> 00:26:29,400 One film after the other. 759 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,733 - [Announcer] Funding for Overheard with Evan Smith 760 00:26:31,733 --> 00:26:34,466 is provided in part by Hillco Partners, 761 00:26:34,466 --> 00:26:37,566 a Texas government Affairs Consultancy. 762 00:26:37,566 --> 00:26:40,066 And by Claire and Carl Stuart.