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[AUDIENCE MEMBER] What so far,

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and I realize it's rather short

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into your interviews and tour,

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so far has been the 
most interesting

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and unexpected 
question you've had?

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Either from an audience 
or from an interviewer.

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[SUSAN PAGE] So let me talk 
about the most interesting thing

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I've found on this 
book tour, if I may,

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and that is that everybody 
has a Barbara Bush story.

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And you know, maybe 
it's because I've spent.

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I was in Washington.

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I did some events in Washington,

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and now I've been 
in Texas for a week.

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But like anybody here ever 
actually meet Barbara Bush?

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So like a fair number of people.

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And so all through Texas, 
people would stand up

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and tell me these amazing 
stories about Barbara Bush.

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And in Washington.

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I did a book event in 
Washington last week

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and a man stood up 
in the Q and A part

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and said that he was 
Barbara Bush's nephew

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and that Barbara 
Bush when she was,

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like I think she must 
have been like 90,

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came to his grandmother's--

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he's a grand nephew maybe.

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I'm not sure, nephew 
or grand nephew.

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[EVAN SMITH] Kin.

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[PAGE] related, okay? 
[SMITH] Yeah, yeah.

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[PAGE] That she came to 
his grandmother's funeral

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and this is when she is in 
fact in failing health herself.

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And she said to him,

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"This is the most 
joyous time of my life."

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And he said, "Why?"

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And she said, "Because 
soon, I'll see Robin again."

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[SMITH] Yeah.

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[PAGE] Which is, I mean, whew.

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[SMITH] But it goes 
back to what she said

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that really the 
loss of her daughter

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never really ceased to be a 
factor in her life, right?

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[PAGE] Yeah. 
[SMITH] Yeah.

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[PAGE] It was so.

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I think it did two things.

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I think it made her invulnerable 
to criticism, in a way.

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It made her more brusque.

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Like she just wasn't gonna 
put up with prattle anymore

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because why?

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You know, she had survived the 
worst thing that could happen

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and nothing could hurt her 
as badly as that hurt her.

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But it also made her 
more empathetic inside.

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It made her more, you know,

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she'd had a privileged life 
and so had George Bush.

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And here was something, the 
worst thing had happened

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and nothing, not their money, 
not their social position,

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not their friends could 
do anything about it.

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And I think that was a 
lesson she took to heart.

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[SMITH] Amazing.

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Sir?

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[AUDIENCE MEMBER] You talk 
about how she and George met.

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[PAGE] Yeah.

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Yes.

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You know, they met 
at a Christmas dance.

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They were both in prep school.

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They came back to suburban 
New York for the holidays.

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This is in 1941.

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And they both end up at 
the Greenwich Country Club

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for a high school dance.

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And George Bush 
says to a friend,

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"Do you know that 
girl across the room?"

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And his friend did.

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And he was going 
to introduce her

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or introduce them to each other.

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And it was almost 
love at first sight.

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They were almost never 
not together after that.

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And when I interviewed 
him in the final interview

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he did during his life,

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I said, "Do you remember 
what caught your eye

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"at the Christmas dance?"

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And he said, "She 
was so beautiful."

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[SMITH] That's great.

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Now, you make reference in here

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to her having dropped 
out of college

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to marry the first 
boy she ever kissed.

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That is a true story.

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[PAGE] So also, I wanted to see

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her high school records, right?

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When someone's alive,

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you have to get their 
permission to do that.

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So I ask her to 
give me permission.

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She wrote a funny letter

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to the place where they 
were held in South Carolina.

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She had gone to a finishing 
school in South Carolina.

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She said, "I'm afraid 
she'll be disappointed,

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"but please let Susan Page 
see my high school records."

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And they're hilarious 
because for one thing,

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it has her IQ on them.

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Now, who puts-- 
[SMITH] Who does that?

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[PAGE] Like I don't think we 
do this anymore, let's hope,

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but her IQ was 120 which 
is like pretty high

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and her grades were terrible.

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She got in her whole 
high school career,

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she got exactly one A and it 
was in physical education.

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(audience laughing)

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[SMITH] It's amazing.

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Sir?

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[AUDIENCE MEMBER] Did she 
enjoy being First Lady?

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[PAGE] Yes, she did.

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And you know, she enjoyed it.

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She enjoyed, I think, 
various aspects of it.

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She liked helping her husband.

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She was very engaged in 
the events of the day

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including the negotiations 
during the Cold War

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which, I think, that wasn't 
recognized, her role in that.

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She also enjoyed--

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she saw it as a big 
platform to help people

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and she told her staff that 
she wanted to do something

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every day to help somebody else.

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So she had, especially 
on the issue of literacy,

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she has just a killer schedule

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of events like no First 
Lady has ever had.

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Many times in smaller places.

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You know, she traveled a 
lot to do literacy events.

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One of the literacy activists 
that she worked with a lot

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told me that she did this 
even when she was suffering

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from the worst of 
Graves' disease,

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which really affected her eyes,

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made her eyes very sensitive, 
made her see double.

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This is something she never 
talked about publicly.

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And that they would 
go to these events

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and there would just be

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every single person would want 
their picture taken with her.

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It'd be flashbulb, after 
flashbulb, after flashbulb.

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This was before there 
were cell phones.

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And that by the time they 
got back to the plane,

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she would be in agony.

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Her eyes would just be in 
agony from all the flashbulbs

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and she would put cold 
compresses on her eyes

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for the flight 
back to Washington.

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But that she never complained 
and she never mentioned it.

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She never said to somebody, 
"Please don't take my picture.

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"My eyes are killing me."

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And I think that is 
part of her effort

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00:05:23,733 --> 00:05:26,000
to like make a difference 
in people's lives

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which was definitely something 
that meant something to her.

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[SMITH] Critically 
important to her, yeah.

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[PAGE] Just one more thing.

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Evan mentioned there was a time

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when she was very 
depressed in 1976.

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00:05:37,366 --> 00:05:39,533
Contemplated suicide.

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00:05:39,533 --> 00:05:41,933
And she said the 
thing that helped her

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00:05:41,933 --> 00:05:43,800
come out of this dark period

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00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,333
was she went and 
volunteered at a hospice.

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00:05:47,333 --> 00:05:49,533
And that I think the theory is

153
00:05:49,533 --> 00:05:51,666
she didn't articulate 
it this way to me,

154
00:05:51,666 --> 00:05:54,333
but I think the theory is 
if you enter a bad patch,

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00:05:54,333 --> 00:05:57,366
find somebody who has a 
worse one and help them

156
00:05:57,366 --> 00:05:58,433
and it'll help you too.

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[SMITH] That's amazing.

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Ma'am?

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[AUDIENCE MEMBER] I 
think you might have

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00:06:01,900 --> 00:06:03,333
just gotten into it.

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00:06:03,333 --> 00:06:04,266
I was gonna ask how you 
learned about her depression.

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00:06:04,266 --> 00:06:05,900
Was it through other interviews?

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00:06:05,900 --> 00:06:07,666
[SMITH] Did she talk 
about it openly to you?

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[PAGE] So yes.

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In fact, she mentioned.

166
00:06:09,766 --> 00:06:11,066
This is interesting.

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00:06:11,066 --> 00:06:14,100
She wrote this 
best-selling memoir in 1994

168
00:06:14,100 --> 00:06:15,866
and in it, she has 
a very short passage

169
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that said, "And I 
was very depressed

170
00:06:17,700 --> 00:06:18,733
"and contemplated suicide,

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00:06:18,733 --> 00:06:19,900
"blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."

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00:06:19,900 --> 00:06:20,833
Right? Like it's 
just tucked in there.

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00:06:20,833 --> 00:06:22,266
[SMITH] Then move on, right.

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00:06:22,266 --> 00:06:23,800
[PAGE] It got 
almost no attention.

175
00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:25,566
I couldn't find anyone 
who picked up on it.

176
00:06:25,566 --> 00:06:27,000
So when she talked 
to me about it,

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00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,866
it wasn't the first 
time she disclosed it,

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00:06:28,866 --> 00:06:30,366
but I think it 
was the first time

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00:06:30,366 --> 00:06:31,900
somebody paid a lot 
of attention to it.

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00:06:31,900 --> 00:06:33,800
And they'd come back.

181
00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,933
The Bushes had moved 
back from China.

182
00:06:35,933 --> 00:06:38,566
He had taken over the 
job heading the CIA.

183
00:06:38,566 --> 00:06:41,033
He could no longer 
share his job with her,

184
00:06:41,033 --> 00:06:43,133
something he had 
done up to then.

185
00:06:43,133 --> 00:06:45,100
She had an empty nest.

186
00:06:45,100 --> 00:06:47,833
Doro had gone away 
to boarding school

187
00:06:47,833 --> 00:06:49,600
and the boys were a little older

188
00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,033
and were either in college 
or out in the world.

189
00:06:53,033 --> 00:06:54,200
She was going through menopause.

190
00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,533
That might have had some effect.

191
00:06:56,533 --> 00:06:59,133
But she entered a really--

192
00:06:59,133 --> 00:07:01,600
she was clearly very depressed

193
00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,333
and she told me that 
she would be driving

194
00:07:05,333 --> 00:07:08,200
and feel this urge 
to plow into a tree

195
00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,066
or to steer the car into 
the path of an oncoming car.

196
00:07:12,066 --> 00:07:14,700
And that she would have to pull 
off to the side of the road

197
00:07:14,700 --> 00:07:17,600
and stop and wait for 
the impulse to pass

198
00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,300
before she could drive on.

199
00:07:19,300 --> 00:07:21,100
So this is someone, I mean,

200
00:07:21,100 --> 00:07:25,400
this really meets the diagnosis 
of a clinical depression.

201
00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,500
But her public image 
was so stoic and strong

202
00:07:28,500 --> 00:07:30,400
that even when I 
went to interview

203
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,333
other people like her brother

204
00:07:32,333 --> 00:07:35,466
with whom she's very 
close about this period,

205
00:07:35,466 --> 00:07:37,366
he said, "Well, it 
wasn't that serious."

206
00:07:37,366 --> 00:07:38,600
It couldn't have 
been that serious

207
00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:40,466
because of course, 
it is so at odds

208
00:07:40,466 --> 00:07:42,566
with the picture we 
have of Barbara Bush.

209
00:07:42,566 --> 00:07:43,400
[SMITH] Amazing.

210
00:07:44,266 --> 00:07:45,200
Last one, sir?

211
00:07:47,033 --> 00:07:50,133
[AUDIENCE MEMBER] What were 
her feelings about Ross Perot?

212
00:07:50,133 --> 00:07:51,766
(laughing)

213
00:07:51,766 --> 00:07:53,866
[PAGE] Well, you know 
that little box that 
had Nancy Reagan.

214
00:07:53,866 --> 00:07:56,166
(audience laughing)

215
00:07:56,166 --> 00:07:58,800
She would have been 
Ross Perot in there too.

216
00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,233
She was, she blamed--

217
00:08:02,233 --> 00:08:04,266
She adored George Bush.

218
00:08:04,266 --> 00:08:06,100
She never thought he 
did anything wrong.

219
00:08:06,100 --> 00:08:10,000
The two reasons she felt that 
he lost his bid for reelection

220
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,833
was unfair news media 
coverage and Ross Perot.

221
00:08:13,833 --> 00:08:15,633
[SMITH] Well, the fact is 
if you look at the math

222
00:08:15,633 --> 00:08:17,266
on the Perot numbers 
in that race,

223
00:08:17,266 --> 00:08:18,633
hard not to believe

224
00:08:18,633 --> 00:08:20,600
that he did cost 
President Bush that race.

225
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,500
[PAGE] It was not 
helpful, that Ross Perot.

226
00:08:22,500 --> 00:08:24,000
Now, you can't rewind 
history, you know?

227
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,933
If this one thing doesn't 
happen, another thing does.

228
00:08:25,933 --> 00:08:29,766
But he was definitely unhelpful.

229
00:08:29,766 --> 00:08:33,533
And they had sort of an odd 
history here in Texas too,

230
00:08:33,533 --> 00:08:36,166
but that was the 
culmination of the--

231
00:08:36,166 --> 00:08:38,300
[SMITH] You know, there was 
that moment in that debate

232
00:08:38,300 --> 00:08:39,566
with Bill Clinton

233
00:08:39,566 --> 00:08:41,866
where President Bush 
looked at his watch

234
00:08:41,866 --> 00:08:43,833
and everybody took 
from that, you know,

235
00:08:43,833 --> 00:08:45,900
he's basically 
telegraphing to us

236
00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:48,000
that he can't wait to leave.

237
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:49,566
You know, his time's up.

238
00:08:49,566 --> 00:08:53,100
I mean, that we forget that 
was an amazing campaign

239
00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:54,600
in so many respects.

240
00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,633
The challenge to President 
Bush by Pat Buchanan,

241
00:08:57,633 --> 00:08:59,733
Ross Perot's involvement 
in that race.

242
00:08:59,733 --> 00:09:01,033
[PAGE] You know, 
and another thing

243
00:09:01,033 --> 00:09:03,200
that I think didn't get--

244
00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,133
wasn't understood 
fully at the time

245
00:09:05,133 --> 00:09:08,533
was Bush's campaign 
chairman in 1992,

246
00:09:08,533 --> 00:09:09,800
Fred Malek, who just 
died last week--

247
00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,100
[SMTIH] Just died 
like two weeks ago

248
00:09:11,100 --> 00:09:12,600
or a week ago, yeah.

249
00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,533
[PAGE] --told me that Bush

250
00:09:16,533 --> 00:09:19,333
had also been diagnosed 
with Graves' disease,

251
00:09:19,333 --> 00:09:21,366
and that they were 
giving him medication

252
00:09:21,366 --> 00:09:23,900
which they were trying 
to carefully regulate.

253
00:09:23,900 --> 00:09:27,366
And Malek and also 
Marlin Fitzwater

254
00:09:27,366 --> 00:09:29,466
who was perhaps 
Bush's closest aide

255
00:09:29,466 --> 00:09:30,400
on the White House staff,

256
00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,066
his White House press secretary,

257
00:09:32,066 --> 00:09:33,866
say that he just 
wasn't the same,

258
00:09:33,866 --> 00:09:35,866
that he didn't have energy,

259
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that he wasn't bold the 
way he had been before.

260
00:09:39,833 --> 00:09:43,233
And they think the impact 
of the Graves' disease

261
00:09:43,233 --> 00:09:45,400
was as big a factor 
as Ross Perot

262
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:46,933
in costing him that election.

263
00:09:46,933 --> 00:09:48,400
[SMITH] See again, something 
we don't actually know.

264
00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,266
Susan, we're so 
happy to see you.

265
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Thank you for 
making time for us.

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[PAGE] Thank you.

267
00:09:52,366 --> 00:09:53,166
[SMITH] Give Susan 
Page a big hand.

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00:09:53,166 --> 00:09:57,933
(audience applauding)