WEBVTT 00:01.466 --> 00:02.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - [Narrator] Funding for Overheard with Evan Smith 00:02.733 --> 00:05.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% is provided in part by Hillco Partners, 00:05.766 --> 00:08.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% a Texas Government Affairs consultancy, 00:08.433 --> 00:10.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and by Claire and Carl Stuart. 00:13.066 --> 00:14.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - I'm Evan Smith, he's the publisher of 00:14.866 --> 00:17.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% The Federalist, a conservative online magazine, 00:17.566 --> 00:19.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and the host of its popular podcast, 00:19.466 --> 00:21.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% the Federalist Radio Hour. 00:21.266 --> 00:23.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% He's Ben Domenech, this is Overheard. 00:23.366 --> 00:24.966 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% [Montage Opener] 00:24.966 --> 00:27.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Let's be honest, is this about the ability 00:27.133 --> 00:29.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to learn, or is this about the experience 00:29.333 --> 00:31.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% of not having been taught properly? 00:31.066 --> 00:33.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% How have you avoided what has befallen 00:33.233 --> 00:34.833 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% other nations in Africa... 00:34.833 --> 00:36.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You could say that he made his own bed, 00:36.100 --> 00:38.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but you caused him to sleep in it. 00:38.000 --> 00:39.833 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% You know, you saw a problem, and 00:39.833 --> 00:41.400 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% over time, took it on... 00:41.400 --> 00:44.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Let's start with the sizzle before we get to the steak. 00:44.600 --> 00:45.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Are you going to run for president? 00:45.900 --> 00:48.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I think I just got an F from you actually. 00:48.400 --> 00:49.566 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% [Upbeat Music] 00:54.233 --> 00:55.500 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Ben Domenech, welcome. 00:55.500 --> 00:56.933 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - Good to be with you. 00:56.933 --> 00:58.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Thank you for being here. - Happy to be here. 00:58.166 --> 00:59.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - We spend a lot of time, in the era 00:59.466 --> 01:01.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% of Donald Trump, asking the broad question, 01:01.733 --> 01:03.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% "Is Donald Trump good for the media business?" 01:03.833 --> 01:06.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Let me be specific and ask you, if Donald Trump 01:06.500 --> 01:08.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% is good for the conservative media business? 01:08.933 --> 01:10.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - You know, he's a challenge for the 01:10.033 --> 01:11.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% conservative media business. 01:11.100 --> 01:12.300 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - Why is that? 01:12.300 --> 01:13.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Maybe cause he's not a conservative? 01:13.466 --> 01:14.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - That has something to do with it. 01:14.200 --> 01:15.033 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% - Right. 01:15.033 --> 01:16.466 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (laughter) 01:16.466 --> 01:18.733 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% - The reality is that, over the course of the past 01:18.733 --> 01:21.033 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% half century or so, the conservative media 01:21.033 --> 01:23.566 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% business and its flagship, National Review Magazine 01:23.566 --> 01:26.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% founded by William F. Buckley, had a particular view 01:26.400 --> 01:29.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% of conservatism that they advocated for. 01:29.133 --> 01:30.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% A view which actually won. 01:30.766 --> 01:32.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% They were originally founded as a magazine 01:32.233 --> 01:34.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that criticized Eisenhower, that was 01:34.933 --> 01:37.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% very critical at various points of Richard Nixon, 01:37.033 --> 01:39.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% but then saw their fulfillment in Ronald Reagan. 01:39.700 --> 01:42.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Ronald Reagan was the apex, right? 01:42.000 --> 01:43.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Everything that they really wanted to see 01:43.300 --> 01:45.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% in a candidate, someone who rejected 01:45.333 --> 01:49.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% the Kissingerian, Nixonian view of the world, 01:49.100 --> 01:52.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% who believed that the cold war was something to be won. 01:52.033 --> 01:56.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% In the wake of that, you had this zombie Reaganism, 01:57.533 --> 01:59.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% according to a lot of different conservative thinkers, 01:59.333 --> 02:01.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% which is basically seeing the world 02:01.666 --> 02:06.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% in the same 1980s frame that allowed for fusionism 02:06.166 --> 02:08.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% of social conservatism and fiscal conservatism, 02:08.200 --> 02:11.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% hawkish foreign policy to dictate the direction 02:11.833 --> 02:13.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% for the Republican Party. 02:13.000 --> 02:15.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% A fusionism that really maintained itself 02:15.633 --> 02:17.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% all the way through the George W. Bush years 02:17.200 --> 02:19.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% with Islamic terrorism and that force 02:19.766 --> 02:23.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% as the substitute for the cold war and the Soviets. 02:25.100 --> 02:27.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% That fusionism though, was really decaying, 02:27.966 --> 02:30.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and it was something that Donald Trump exploited, 02:30.600 --> 02:32.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to great degree, because it turned out 02:32.333 --> 02:35.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% at the end of the day that the cohort, 02:35.066 --> 02:36.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% the coalition of the right 02:36.766 --> 02:41.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% was not this Buckleyesque, Reaganesque free trade, 02:41.166 --> 02:44.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% importance of maintaining global power, 02:44.200 --> 02:46.800 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% of supporting our various allies 02:46.800 --> 02:48.533 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% in all sorts of different ways. 02:48.533 --> 02:50.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% That that was something that actually was not 02:50.166 --> 02:52.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the animating focus of so many people who 02:52.533 --> 02:54.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% made up the Republican base. 02:54.766 --> 02:56.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Donald Trump exploited that to great degree 02:56.500 --> 03:00.333 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% and in part because the Republican Party deluded themselves 03:00.333 --> 03:02.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% into thinking that the war, the conflict 03:02.533 --> 03:05.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% within their ranks was between 03:05.033 --> 03:09.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% moderates, establishment, Chamber of Commerce Republicans, 03:09.100 --> 03:12.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and conservative Constitutionalists ideologues- 03:12.166 --> 03:13.166 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - Right, movement types. 03:13.166 --> 03:15.333 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - Ted Cruz and the like. 03:15.333 --> 03:16.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Ted Cruz ran for President believing 03:16.833 --> 03:18.333 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that conservatives were angry, 03:18.333 --> 03:19.833 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and what he'd actually discover 03:19.833 --> 03:21.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and what Donald Trump already knew 03:21.566 --> 03:23.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% was that everyone was angry. 03:23.066 --> 03:25.466 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% - Yeah, I'm tempted to trot out the old adage 03:25.466 --> 03:27.833 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% that you can't beat somebody with nobody. 03:27.833 --> 03:32.533 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% Trump showed up and the conservative movement in the main 03:32.533 --> 03:35.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% did not really field an adequate candidate 03:35.233 --> 03:38.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% or any candidate to carry the anti-Trump banner, 03:38.100 --> 03:39.566 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% but you do point out Cruz. 03:39.566 --> 03:43.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% The fact is, you can't get more movement-y than Ted Cruz. 03:43.633 --> 03:45.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It's not that the conservative wing 03:45.700 --> 03:47.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% of the Republican Party or the movement conservatives 03:47.833 --> 03:49.366 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% didn't show up for the game. 03:49.366 --> 03:51.600 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% They just got beat, right? 03:51.600 --> 03:54.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Ideas don't run for President, people do. 03:54.466 --> 03:57.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% People have flaws that can be exploited. 03:57.766 --> 03:59.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Let's spend a little bit of time. 03:59.066 --> 04:00.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I don't want you to go all Al Franken on me, 04:00.800 --> 04:03.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but let's talk about Cruz' flaws. 04:03.633 --> 04:08.266 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Well, I think Ted Cruz is a brilliant individual. 04:08.266 --> 04:10.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% He's an extremely smart person. 04:10.466 --> 04:13.300 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% But I also think that he is someone who does not necessarily 04:13.300 --> 04:16.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% have the gift for the common touch, 04:16.166 --> 04:17.433 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% the ability to connect- 04:17.433 --> 04:19.700 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (laughter) 04:19.700 --> 04:21.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - You don't say, you don't think at Princeton 04:21.466 --> 04:23.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% or Harvard, he learned how to be a common person? 04:23.700 --> 04:27.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - There's an anecdote about Richard Nixon 04:29.300 --> 04:30.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% pulling over on the side of the road, 04:30.766 --> 04:33.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% running up to a police officer who's lying on the ground 04:33.566 --> 04:36.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% after a car wreck that he had been sort of affected by 04:36.566 --> 04:38.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and Nixon runs up to him, puts out his hand, 04:38.400 --> 04:42.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% shakes his hand and says, "Well do you enjoy your job?" 04:42.466 --> 04:44.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Richard Nixon was someone afflicted by- 04:44.700 --> 04:46.900 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - Empathy deficit. 04:46.900 --> 04:49.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Exactly, an inability to connect with common people. 04:49.833 --> 04:53.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I actually think that Ted is a guy who's very smart, 04:53.833 --> 04:57.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and I think that he will probably become someone, 04:57.966 --> 05:00.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% a figure along the lines of Jesse Helms in the Senate. 05:00.633 --> 05:01.666 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Ultimately, someone who- 05:01.666 --> 05:02.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - You mean that as a compliment? 05:02.933 --> 05:05.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Well, I mean that in terms of someone 05:05.433 --> 05:08.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% who will have an out-sized impact on the body. 05:08.433 --> 05:11.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - So I wanna understand Trump not as a contrast to Cruz 05:11.233 --> 05:14.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% or anybody else, but Trump in his own way. 05:16.000 --> 05:17.666 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% What is he about really? 05:17.666 --> 05:19.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Did we see in the campaign the real Trump? 05:19.933 --> 05:24.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Did we see a reality show version of the real guy, 05:24.933 --> 05:28.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% essentially a hyped up entertainment celebrity 05:28.466 --> 05:30.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% masquerading as a real person? 05:30.266 --> 05:32.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I've wondered over the last since whatever it is, 05:32.900 --> 05:35.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% June of 2015 when he descended that escalator 05:35.033 --> 05:36.766 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% and talked about Mexican rapists. 05:36.766 --> 05:39.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% From that day forward, I've wondered 05:39.900 --> 05:41.833 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% who's the real Trump? 05:41.833 --> 05:43.033 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% What is the real Trump? 05:43.033 --> 05:45.300 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Do you have a sense? 05:45.300 --> 05:48.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - The real Trump is a man who is a traitor to his class 05:48.033 --> 05:49.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% because he has a chip on his shoulder 05:49.633 --> 05:51.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% because he felt that he was never accepted 05:51.800 --> 05:53.366 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% by the New York elite. 05:53.366 --> 05:54.833 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% There's an alternate history 05:54.833 --> 05:57.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that you could actually consider within this realm. 05:57.633 --> 06:00.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% The easy way to look at it is actually to look at the 06:00.700 --> 06:03.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% attempt by Donald Trump to buy an NFL franchise. 06:03.533 --> 06:05.500 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% He tried very hard to do that. 06:05.500 --> 06:06.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% He was rejected by the owners, 06:06.766 --> 06:08.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% they have the ability to do that. 06:08.033 --> 06:11.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% His response to that was to buy a USFL franchise 06:11.533 --> 06:14.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and then sue the NFL to try to force them 06:14.666 --> 06:16.433 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to essentially let him in. 06:16.433 --> 06:18.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% He won that case but because everyone on the jury 06:18.533 --> 06:20.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% thought that he was a very rich man, 06:20.033 --> 06:23.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% they awarded him one dollar plus interest in payment. 06:23.833 --> 06:26.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% There is an alternate universe in Earth Two 06:26.433 --> 06:28.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% or what have you, Evan, where Donald Trump 06:28.433 --> 06:30.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% gets that franchise, is accepted by the broader 06:30.600 --> 06:32.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% immediate landscape and New York elite, 06:32.433 --> 06:33.900 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and never runs for President 06:33.900 --> 06:36.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% because he has something else to take away his time. 06:36.900 --> 06:39.166 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I view Trump as someone who 06:40.533 --> 06:44.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% is a very canny exploiter of cultural trends. 06:44.633 --> 06:46.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% That is what I believe he has done 06:46.200 --> 06:47.733 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% throughout his entire career. 06:47.733 --> 06:50.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I think that he did that in this most recent election. 06:50.800 --> 06:54.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% He picked certain things as cultural signifiers to people. 06:56.333 --> 06:57.566 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% He embraced them. 06:57.566 --> 06:59.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I think more important than anything else, 06:59.766 --> 07:03.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% what he actually did was he changed something significant 07:03.766 --> 07:06.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% about the way that politicians relate to the media. 07:06.733 --> 07:08.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% If you go back a couple of years ago, 07:08.000 --> 07:09.566 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I remember this interview 07:09.566 --> 07:12.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that Marco Rubio gave to BuzzFeed. 07:13.666 --> 07:14.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% He went into the BuzzFeed offices, 07:14.866 --> 07:17.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% obviously this is Marco Rubio post-2012, 07:17.433 --> 07:20.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% setting up his, oh I'm the new hip thing. 07:20.900 --> 07:22.366 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - Nascent. 07:22.366 --> 07:24.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - I have opinions about rap, talk to me about that, 07:24.500 --> 07:25.433 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% that sort of thing. 07:25.433 --> 07:27.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I can connect with the children. 07:27.000 --> 07:28.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - I'm the young candidate. 07:28.466 --> 07:29.666 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Yesterday's gone, tomorrow is going, (crosstalk). 07:29.666 --> 07:32.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Exactly, he goes into the BuzzFeed offices 07:32.466 --> 07:34.300 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and within a few questions of the beginning 07:34.300 --> 07:37.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% of the interview, they start asking him questions 07:37.600 --> 07:40.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% about Christianity and creationism and evolution 07:40.766 --> 07:43.233 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and all these other things. 07:43.233 --> 07:45.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Rubio being the polite guy that he is, 07:45.433 --> 07:48.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% is sort of trying to be nice about things. 07:48.366 --> 07:49.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% They're trying to get him to say things 07:49.833 --> 07:52.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that basically dis his supporters. 07:52.133 --> 07:54.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I remember sending that around to a group of friends 07:54.166 --> 07:56.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and having a comment from someone that said, 07:56.733 --> 08:01.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% you know, I wish that his response to this would have been 08:01.033 --> 08:03.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% yes, I believe in a god who created the world, 08:03.633 --> 08:06.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% was born of a virgin, and died for my sins. 08:06.366 --> 08:08.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Do you have a problem with that? 08:08.633 --> 08:10.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% That's the kind of thing that I think conservatives 08:10.633 --> 08:13.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% wanted to see, they want to see the rejection 08:13.133 --> 08:15.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% of the premise of the question, 08:15.000 --> 08:16.233 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% that just sort of says, 08:16.233 --> 08:17.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I should feel bad about believing 08:17.900 --> 08:19.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% what traditional Christians believe about these things. 08:19.966 --> 08:21.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Who prevented the conservative movement 08:21.933 --> 08:24.266 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% from fielding such a candidate in the last election? 08:24.266 --> 08:27.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I seem to remember a guy named Rubio, actually, 08:27.000 --> 08:28.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% might have been him, but there were 08:28.400 --> 08:29.633 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% a bunch of other people in there. 08:29.633 --> 08:32.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Again, you go down the list of the 17 who ran. 08:32.233 --> 08:34.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Let's stipulate Trump is not a traditional conservative, 08:34.233 --> 08:35.666 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% or maybe even a Republican. 08:35.666 --> 08:37.133 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% - Yes. 08:37.133 --> 08:38.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - But of the other 16, there are a bunch in there 08:38.433 --> 08:39.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% who seem like they could have been that person. 08:39.933 --> 08:42.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - There's a connective thread that runs through the past 08:42.433 --> 08:46.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% several elections that I think we didn't fully appreciate. 08:46.700 --> 08:48.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Pat Buchanan runs for President in '92, 08:48.600 --> 08:50.700 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% he runs for President in '96. 08:50.700 --> 08:54.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% You have the surprising success of Mike Huckabee in 2008. 08:56.233 --> 08:59.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% You have the surprising success of Rick Santorum in 2012. 08:59.466 --> 09:02.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% What they had all in common was a populist economic message 09:02.066 --> 09:04.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that broke with Republican orthodoxy on trade, 09:04.833 --> 09:06.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% on a number of other issues related to that, 09:06.533 --> 09:10.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% on unions, but what distracted us about them, of course, 09:10.500 --> 09:12.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% is that they were all Bible-believing 09:12.033 --> 09:14.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Christians, Catholics, evangelicals. 09:14.400 --> 09:17.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% So the questions they got asked on the trail 09:17.000 --> 09:20.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% typically turned very quickly to abortion, birth control, 09:20.366 --> 09:22.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% all these other sort of cultural issues. 09:22.666 --> 09:24.733 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% But I think what we did was we underestimated 09:24.733 --> 09:28.166 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% the power and the appeal of their protectionist, 09:28.166 --> 09:31.000 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% pro-union, anti-free trade message 09:32.366 --> 09:33.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% within this Republican (crosstalk). 09:33.766 --> 09:35.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - That was really the gas in the engine. 09:35.566 --> 09:36.400 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - Exactly. 09:36.400 --> 09:37.833 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - It turns out. 09:37.833 --> 09:40.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - What Trump did was basically he embraced that message 09:40.966 --> 09:42.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% because it's not really all that different from- 09:42.666 --> 09:43.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Did he do that consciously? 09:43.933 --> 09:45.200 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% I mean honestly, I'm hearing you say this 09:45.200 --> 09:47.000 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% and I'm thinking that's pretty smart. 09:47.000 --> 09:48.833 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% It's pretty canny and pretty savvy 09:48.833 --> 09:51.033 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% in a way that he's not been given adequate credit for. 09:51.033 --> 09:53.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - I will just say, that is probably the thing 09:53.033 --> 09:54.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% he's been the most consistent on. 09:54.733 --> 09:56.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% If you go back and you read what he was saying in the 1980s, 09:56.833 --> 09:58.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% he was still saying that same thing. 09:58.333 --> 10:00.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - And of course, who else is carrying that flag 10:00.100 --> 10:02.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and running down the field, Steve Bannon. 10:02.033 --> 10:02.966 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% - Yes. 10:02.966 --> 10:04.366 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - So Steve Bannon comes aboard 10:04.366 --> 10:07.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and Steve Bannon is affirming with his presence 10:07.500 --> 10:10.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and his words and deeds, the same economic nationalism 10:10.100 --> 10:11.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% message that Trump is himself 10:11.766 --> 10:13.600 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% out there carrying the flag for. 10:13.600 --> 10:15.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% It's a match made in heaven. 10:15.100 --> 10:18.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Yeah, I mean, look, I do not agree with this message. 10:18.200 --> 10:21.133 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I'm as absolutist on free trade 10:21.133 --> 10:23.300 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% as I think you'd find anybody, 10:23.300 --> 10:26.666 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% but I am also of the opinion that the case for free trade 10:26.666 --> 10:29.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% has been something that Republican politicians 10:29.533 --> 10:32.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% have failed to make with their own base for decades. 10:32.966 --> 10:34.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It's one that I think really caught up 10:34.366 --> 10:35.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% with them in this election. 10:35.633 --> 10:38.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% The truth is, if you look at Bannon 10:38.166 --> 10:40.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and if you look at this connective tissue, 10:40.900 --> 10:42.166 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% there are a lot of things 10:42.166 --> 10:43.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% he has in common with Pat Buchanan. 10:43.466 --> 10:47.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It turned out that that thread of populist 10:47.100 --> 10:51.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% pro-union, anti-free trade sort of things 10:51.300 --> 10:52.900 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% really had a lot of power. 10:52.900 --> 10:55.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I remember being in Cleveland and expecting 10:55.066 --> 10:56.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that there would be all sorts of protests. 10:56.433 --> 10:59.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I was at the convention in 2008 11:00.266 --> 11:02.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and got tear gassed along with some of 11:02.466 --> 11:05.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% the anti-globalist protestors 11:05.033 --> 11:06.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that were outside of that convention. 11:06.800 --> 11:08.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I expected something along those lines. 11:08.500 --> 11:10.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - But it turns out that the protests against globalism 11:10.733 --> 11:11.733 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% were in the hall. 11:11.733 --> 11:13.333 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Exactly, that's the thing. 11:13.333 --> 11:16.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% What was so notable was the unions weren't there. 11:16.166 --> 11:18.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% There was no real powerful (crosstalk). 11:18.366 --> 11:20.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Let me ask you about this idea of globalism. 11:20.233 --> 11:23.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Globalism is often viewed as a code word for anti-Semitism. 11:23.466 --> 11:27.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% So when Breitbart writes about economic nationalism- 11:27.866 --> 11:29.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - It puts those little globes. 11:29.033 --> 11:30.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - They put little globes around the name. 11:30.566 --> 11:32.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You know, they write about Gary Cohn 11:32.300 --> 11:34.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and they write about other people in the administration 11:34.000 --> 11:36.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% in a way that causes people, fairly or unfairly, 11:36.100 --> 11:39.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% to think that it's a short walk from economic nationalism 11:39.100 --> 11:41.500 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to globalism to anti-Semitism. 11:41.500 --> 11:42.766 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Is that a fair knock? 11:42.766 --> 11:44.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - I don't think it's a fair knock 11:44.100 --> 11:46.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but I also understand why people would see it. 11:46.066 --> 11:47.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I certainly don't know the people 11:47.566 --> 11:49.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% who are writing those pieces well enough 11:49.100 --> 11:52.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% to tell whether they actually hold those views or not. 11:52.833 --> 11:54.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% The fact is, that the revolt against globalism 11:54.766 --> 11:56.733 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% is not unique to America. 11:56.733 --> 11:58.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It's something that we see in Brexit. 11:58.333 --> 11:59.833 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% It's something that we see in Spain right now 11:59.833 --> 12:02.166 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% in the Catalonian sort of difficulties. 12:02.166 --> 12:04.066 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% It's something that we've seen in the backlash 12:04.066 --> 12:06.733 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% against the kind of EU project 12:06.733 --> 12:10.600 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% that has led to a significant degree of stability. 12:10.600 --> 12:13.300 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% It's a little impolitic but the fact is that the EU 12:13.300 --> 12:15.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% is about allowing Germany to run Europe 12:15.900 --> 12:18.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% without actually fighting a war (crosstalk). 12:18.166 --> 12:21.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - But Ben, is it realistic though to expect 12:21.500 --> 12:22.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that in a world that's increasingly global 12:22.966 --> 12:24.766 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% and increasingly inter-connected, 12:24.766 --> 12:27.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% where borders are coming down not going up, 12:27.133 --> 12:30.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that we're now going to retreat like an old Italian town 12:30.866 --> 12:34.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% behind high walls with people atop and boiling oil 12:34.400 --> 12:36.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that they're going to pour on the invading hordes. 12:36.800 --> 12:39.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% We're turning into San Gimignano (crosstalk). 12:39.466 --> 12:40.400 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I mean, we're really are. 12:40.400 --> 12:41.366 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% It sounds like what we're doing 12:41.366 --> 12:43.800 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% is going back to a time long ago 12:43.800 --> 12:45.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% when the world was a different place 12:45.133 --> 12:48.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and we were a different piece of that puzzle. 12:48.466 --> 12:51.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% That's the pushback often against this view. 12:51.666 --> 12:53.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - The most powerful motivation I think 12:53.866 --> 12:56.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% in American life is nostalgia. 12:56.266 --> 12:58.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% The truth is that nostalgia fools you. 12:58.900 --> 13:00.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You forget the fact that you know, 13:00.466 --> 13:03.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% even if you had this sort of false sense of stability, 13:03.000 --> 13:05.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% when you were a child in the 50s or 60s 13:05.633 --> 13:08.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and there was this trust in great institutions 13:08.800 --> 13:10.166 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and corporations, et cetera. 13:10.166 --> 13:11.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You forget the fact that your parents 13:11.633 --> 13:14.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% had to save money for a year to buy a refrigerator. 13:14.966 --> 13:17.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% We live in a time now where you cannot 13:17.866 --> 13:18.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% unring that globalist bell. 13:18.966 --> 13:20.333 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Or honestly, it's fake, 13:20.333 --> 13:22.666 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I refer to this as a restoration hardware problem. 13:22.666 --> 13:25.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% We're all nostalgic for a time that never existed, right. 13:25.433 --> 13:26.866 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - This is true, but think- 13:26.866 --> 13:29.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - But that fake nostalgia actually is nonetheless fueling 13:29.500 --> 13:31.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% these decisions that we make politically. 13:31.333 --> 13:32.533 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - But think about the experience 13:32.533 --> 13:34.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% of someone in America today. 13:34.033 --> 13:37.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% We have more working-age males in America 13:38.800 --> 13:40.666 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% who are out of the workforce 13:40.666 --> 13:42.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% then at any time since the end of the Great Depression. 13:42.700 --> 13:45.200 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Okay, these are people who have 13:45.200 --> 13:48.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% more than anything else, gotten onto the disability system 13:48.166 --> 13:49.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% as a substitute for unemployment. 13:49.666 --> 13:53.666 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% They are subsisting on essentially $1200 a month, 13:53.666 --> 13:56.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% which gives you the ability to self-medicate 13:56.400 --> 14:00.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% with either alcohol or opioids or something else. 14:00.100 --> 14:02.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You sit on a couch and you watch TV, 14:02.433 --> 14:04.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and this golden-haired man comes on. 14:04.500 --> 14:07.300 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% He tells you it's not your fault that your life sucks. 14:07.300 --> 14:09.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It's not your fault that you're sitting there 14:09.066 --> 14:10.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and you're viewing all these celebrities 14:10.266 --> 14:11.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% whose lives you can never aspire to. 14:11.866 --> 14:13.200 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% It's the fault of immigrants, 14:13.200 --> 14:14.833 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% it's the fault of politicians, 14:14.833 --> 14:18.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% it's the fault of bad trade deals and wars based on lies. 14:18.566 --> 14:21.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% He says, that's okay, I can fix it. 14:21.766 --> 14:25.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I alone can fix it, okay, and you listen. 14:25.900 --> 14:27.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - I want to walk over from economic nationalism 14:27.733 --> 14:30.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to white nationalism, because to the degree 14:30.366 --> 14:32.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that economic nationalism has been a narrative thread 14:32.400 --> 14:35.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% of the last nine months, so in a more recent sense 14:35.466 --> 14:37.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% has white nationalism been. 14:37.066 --> 14:40.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Do you think that the country has suddenly become racist, 14:40.600 --> 14:42.666 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% or that elements of the country have become racist, 14:42.666 --> 14:44.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% you know, as the knock, 14:44.100 --> 14:47.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% or that it was always there sub rosa, 14:47.166 --> 14:50.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and that Donald Trump through his actions and words 14:50.233 --> 14:53.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% has given license for those who believe things 14:53.000 --> 14:55.300 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that were not said out loud, to now say them out loud 14:55.300 --> 14:57.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and so we're more aware of it? 14:57.100 --> 14:59.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - I think as, first off let me just say, 14:59.933 --> 15:03.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I'm Puerto Rican and I've written in public 15:03.333 --> 15:06.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% for quite some time, and if you are Hispanic 15:06.366 --> 15:08.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% or you have any Hispanic tendencies, 15:08.133 --> 15:10.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% then you are very familiar with the racists on the right. 15:10.966 --> 15:13.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% So I knew about Richard Spencer and all these other folks 15:13.566 --> 15:17.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% 10 years ago, because that was when they were writing about 15:17.466 --> 15:20.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% me and my family and the Hispanic employees that I have 15:20.100 --> 15:22.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% in ways that were nasty and awful. 15:22.833 --> 15:25.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I think we just frankly pay a lot more attention to it now. 15:25.233 --> 15:26.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I think they were always there. 15:26.633 --> 15:28.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It's just that before we never connected it 15:28.500 --> 15:30.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% to a broader movement that was having an impact 15:30.800 --> 15:32.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% on the way that we lived, 15:32.100 --> 15:33.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% or certainly who was in the White House. 15:33.533 --> 15:35.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I think that instead, now people are saying, 15:35.333 --> 15:38.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% well this is of the same, or this is the same piece. 15:38.433 --> 15:40.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% The danger of course there, is the fact is 15:40.933 --> 15:42.666 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that Donald Trump has more than 15:42.666 --> 15:44.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% 60 million people who voted for him. 15:44.566 --> 15:46.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Those people are not white supremacists. 15:46.466 --> 15:47.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% They are not all white supremacists, 15:47.666 --> 15:49.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% they are not all white nationalists. 15:49.166 --> 15:50.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% They did not vote for him for that reason. 15:50.933 --> 15:52.300 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% White college-educated women 15:52.300 --> 15:54.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% did not vote for him for that reason. 15:54.066 --> 15:58.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% The fact is that he won votes from more black Americans 15:58.600 --> 16:00.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and more Hispanic Americans than Mitt Romney did, 16:00.933 --> 16:02.200 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% but he didn't do that 16:02.200 --> 16:04.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% because of the appeal of white nationalism. 16:04.033 --> 16:07.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I think the fact is that these people were always there, 16:07.033 --> 16:08.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% but now we're connecting them 16:08.766 --> 16:10.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% with a broader trend in American society, 16:10.700 --> 16:12.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% which is very dangerous, and which I think 16:12.933 --> 16:15.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% deserves the kind of criticism that it's getting. 16:15.933 --> 16:18.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% But then it's leading us to make the false conclusion 16:18.800 --> 16:20.166 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that those people are connected 16:20.166 --> 16:22.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% with the rest of the President's base 16:22.066 --> 16:23.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% in a way that I think unfortunately, 16:23.700 --> 16:25.666 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% smears a lot of Americans. 16:25.666 --> 16:27.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - It's a subset, but it's a subset over here. 16:27.666 --> 16:29.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It's not co-mingled with (crosstalk). 16:29.733 --> 16:31.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - It's an extremist subset. 16:31.066 --> 16:32.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I mean, I connected him to Pat Buchanan 16:32.733 --> 16:35.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and certainly there's a subset of anti-Semites 16:35.200 --> 16:36.433 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% who supported Pat Buchanan. 16:36.433 --> 16:37.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - You remember the old Molly Ivins line 16:37.633 --> 16:39.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% about the Buchanan speech in '92, 16:39.500 --> 16:41.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% it was better in the original German, remember that? 16:41.566 --> 16:43.500 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - I do remember that line. 16:43.500 --> 16:46.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I do remember that line, but I would also urge you 16:46.333 --> 16:48.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to go back and watch that speech again. 16:48.200 --> 16:52.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Because I would suggest to you that what he is actually 16:52.400 --> 16:54.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% sort of saying is something that played out 16:54.600 --> 16:57.166 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% over the next two decades. 16:57.166 --> 17:00.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - It was the lead up, the run up to the culture war 17:00.700 --> 17:02.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% which was then the run up to this. 17:02.200 --> 17:05.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Yes, and what both he and Huckabee to a degree, 17:05.366 --> 17:08.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% but Santorum certainly, argued through their whole careers 17:08.600 --> 17:11.133 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% was we are on the slippery slope 17:11.133 --> 17:14.866 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% that is going to lead us to a point where America rejects 17:14.866 --> 17:18.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Christianity and the founding and our history 17:18.133 --> 17:20.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and views them all as being affected by 17:20.700 --> 17:23.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% an original sin of racism and bigotry 17:23.100 --> 17:24.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and all of these other things. 17:24.633 --> 17:27.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% That's going to lead people to try to destroy the past, 17:27.166 --> 17:30.266 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% knock down monuments, and rip up the Constitution. 17:30.266 --> 17:33.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Basically, that's the subset of what they've been arguing. 17:33.233 --> 17:34.333 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - And like hey. 17:34.333 --> 17:35.833 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - And they feel vindicated now. 17:35.833 --> 17:36.966 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% They feel vindicated. 17:36.966 --> 17:38.366 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% - On the subject of race, 17:38.366 --> 17:40.333 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% a question very much of the moment, 17:40.333 --> 17:42.766 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% is Colin Kaepernick is a son of a bitch? 17:42.766 --> 17:46.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - (laughs) No, I think he has a very nice family. 17:46.033 --> 17:48.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Well, you know, Mrs. Kaepernick objected enormously 17:48.600 --> 17:50.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to the President's characterization. 17:50.533 --> 17:51.800 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - I will just say- 17:51.800 --> 17:53.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Because everyone's on Twitter, she tweeted it. 17:53.400 --> 17:56.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - I actually like Colin Kaepernick. 17:56.000 --> 17:57.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I paid a lot of attention to him coming out 17:57.600 --> 17:59.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% because I actually wanted my own home team, 17:59.966 --> 18:02.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the Washington R-Words, to draft him. 18:02.033 --> 18:06.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% But I think that the truth is, when I look at Kaepernick, 18:06.433 --> 18:10.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I see a guy who I think has made an error of judgment. 18:10.800 --> 18:15.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% The reason is that I think that his expression of protest 18:15.433 --> 18:17.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% sends a message that he doesn't intend it to send. 18:17.833 --> 18:21.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I think that he wants to protest because of what he sees 18:21.033 --> 18:24.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% as a problem of police action and violence 18:26.733 --> 18:29.166 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and danger to black Americans. 18:29.166 --> 18:30.833 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Are you sympathetic to that? 18:30.833 --> 18:31.766 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - I am sympathetic. 18:31.766 --> 18:32.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - You're a criminal justice guy. 18:32.933 --> 18:35.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% This is of particular interest, yeah. 18:35.933 --> 18:39.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - I think the truth is that the cops we have, 18:39.466 --> 18:41.200 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I think try to do a good job 18:41.200 --> 18:43.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% but many of them are not trained 18:43.000 --> 18:44.433 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to the degree they need to be. 18:44.433 --> 18:46.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% They certainly do not practice with their weapons 18:46.133 --> 18:47.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to the degree they need to be, 18:47.633 --> 18:50.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and are way too quick to pull I think on a lot of people, 18:50.933 --> 18:53.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that otherwise might survive if they behaved 18:53.633 --> 18:56.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% with more of an approach to 18:56.000 --> 18:58.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% trying to de-escalate a situation. 18:58.133 --> 19:01.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I also think frankly, we have far too many laws. 19:01.033 --> 19:04.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% There's too much opportunity for a cop 19:05.566 --> 19:07.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to come in conflict with someone today. 19:07.866 --> 19:09.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I think particularly of the situation 19:09.466 --> 19:11.300 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% in Baltimore with Freddie Gray. 19:11.300 --> 19:15.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I happen to carry a knife typically in my pocket. 19:15.233 --> 19:16.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Well it's good because here in Texas now, 19:16.700 --> 19:20.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% as of September 1st, you can open-carry knives. 19:20.800 --> 19:23.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Just take it out, just put it on the table. 19:23.466 --> 19:24.666 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - It's in my bag unfortunately 19:24.666 --> 19:28.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% because I didn't expect to have this out but 19:30.766 --> 19:32.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I was very upset to learn that frankly, 19:32.666 --> 19:34.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that the type of knife that I carry 19:34.766 --> 19:36.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% was very close to the same type of knife 19:36.533 --> 19:38.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that Freddie Gray carried. 19:38.066 --> 19:40.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% He should not have even been arrested for carrying that. 19:40.100 --> 19:41.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It was actually legal for him to carry. 19:41.500 --> 19:43.400 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% But because it was carried- 19:43.400 --> 19:44.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - So you're sympathetic in a general sense 19:44.800 --> 19:47.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% to the Kaepernick argument that (crosstalk). 19:47.433 --> 19:50.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - The problem is, and I think particularly 19:50.466 --> 19:55.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% you can look at Martin Luther King's speech on this. 19:55.100 --> 19:58.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% MLK's speech did not criticize America 19:58.966 --> 20:00.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% for its founding or for its principles. 20:00.733 --> 20:04.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% What it said is, America is great. 20:04.366 --> 20:06.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I would like to be included in that 20:06.266 --> 20:08.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and I have not been to this point. 20:08.066 --> 20:09.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I think that is a much more convincing, 20:09.933 --> 20:11.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and if you look back at most civil rights leaders, 20:11.633 --> 20:13.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the ones who've been most successful, 20:13.166 --> 20:16.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% have been the ones who don't say America is a bad place, 20:16.366 --> 20:19.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% it's terrible, that you need to feel guilty about it, 20:19.733 --> 20:21.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% et cetera, and there's nothing that can be done 20:21.800 --> 20:23.300 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% to really assuage that. 20:23.300 --> 20:26.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Instead they say, we want to be fully included in it. 20:26.333 --> 20:28.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I think that's something that Kaepernick 20:28.233 --> 20:29.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% could have done in a lot of different ways. 20:29.833 --> 20:32.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Instead, it reads to so many different NFL fans 20:32.333 --> 20:33.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% who don't pay attention to what he says 20:33.600 --> 20:35.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% or what he does off the field. 20:35.966 --> 20:37.233 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% They just look at it and say, 20:37.233 --> 20:38.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% why does this guy hate my country? 20:38.766 --> 20:40.666 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% - Well there is of course this additional question 20:40.666 --> 20:43.533 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% of conservatives being in favor of small government 20:43.533 --> 20:46.166 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% and leaving business alone. 20:46.166 --> 20:48.966 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% The President deciding that because of the offense 20:48.966 --> 20:50.366 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% he's taken at Colin Kaepernick, 20:50.366 --> 20:52.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% saying on Twitter and elsewhere, 20:52.033 --> 20:55.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I think that the NFL owners should fire players 20:55.100 --> 20:58.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% who take a knee, and who dishonor our flag, 20:58.366 --> 21:00.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and I think that this person should be fired. 21:00.266 --> 21:02.000 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% In the same way that a couple weeks ago, 21:02.000 --> 21:04.800 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% we had an ESPN on-air personality 21:04.800 --> 21:09.000 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% who made comments that were disparaging of the President, 21:09.000 --> 21:10.366 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% in response to comments that he made 21:10.366 --> 21:13.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% disparaging of her race, she believed. 21:13.400 --> 21:15.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% The Press Secretary for the White House, 21:15.200 --> 21:16.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Sarah Huckabee Sanders, came out and said, 21:16.933 --> 21:19.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% we believe that ESPN should fire this person. 21:19.133 --> 21:22.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Is there a conflict, you're a small government conservative. 21:22.400 --> 21:23.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Do you want the President and the White House 21:23.933 --> 21:26.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% dictating to private businesses who they can employ? 21:26.566 --> 21:28.066 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - Of course not. 21:28.066 --> 21:29.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - The First Amendment gives you the right to be wrong 21:29.833 --> 21:31.366 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% or to be a jackass, doesn't it. 21:31.366 --> 21:32.933 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - Of course it does. 21:32.933 --> 21:36.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I will just say I'm not a big fan of Jemele Hill, 21:36.500 --> 21:40.000 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% not because of what she said about the President 21:40.000 --> 21:41.966 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% in her view being a white supremacist, 21:41.966 --> 21:45.566 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% but simply that her hour is down 20% in the ratings. 21:45.566 --> 21:48.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% That's I think the bigger problem for ESPN. 21:48.200 --> 21:49.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - In the end, it's all about the ratings. 21:49.600 --> 21:51.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% To that point, let me take a short walk 21:51.333 --> 21:53.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% over to the President's own ratings. 21:53.033 --> 21:54.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% There's a Washington Post/ABC News poll 21:54.866 --> 21:56.766 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% out this very day that has the President 21:56.766 --> 22:00.866 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% at 39% approval, which is the lowest point in 71 years 22:00.866 --> 22:04.733 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% for a President at this point in his presidency. 22:04.733 --> 22:06.033 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% And yet. 22:06.033 --> 22:07.633 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - And yet. 22:07.633 --> 22:09.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - And yet, there's absolutely no sign 22:09.633 --> 22:12.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that the base that elected him is deserting him in droves. 22:12.400 --> 22:15.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% There's no sign that the members of Congress, 22:15.633 --> 22:16.733 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% particularly of his party, 22:16.733 --> 22:19.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% are in any way empowered to thwart him. 22:19.766 --> 22:24.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% In fact, if anything, they seem to be cowering. 22:24.400 --> 22:25.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% He's making deals with Chuck and Nancy. 22:25.900 --> 22:27.900 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Yes, well he likes Chuck. 22:27.900 --> 22:29.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% They're from the boroughs. - America's fun couple. 22:29.766 --> 22:31.200 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - He gave Chuck money for years. 22:31.200 --> 22:33.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - Right, they're from the crappy boroughs, in fact, right. 22:33.900 --> 22:35.233 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% It's even better, and as someone 22:35.233 --> 22:39.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% who is from a crappy borough, I can say that. 22:40.300 --> 22:42.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I'm a self-hating crappy borough native. 22:42.766 --> 22:43.966 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (laughter) 22:43.966 --> 22:45.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% No, no, but the point is, I mean really, 22:45.466 --> 22:48.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% what's remarkable is the polls are as bad as they are, 22:48.000 --> 22:51.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and everyone's mad at him and up in his grill, 22:51.000 --> 22:52.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and he's just blithely doing his thing. 22:52.900 --> 22:54.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - You know, the funny thing is, Evan, 22:54.433 --> 22:55.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and I don't know that this was actually his rating 22:55.533 --> 22:56.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% in the Washington Post/ABC poll, 22:56.933 --> 22:59.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but his rating in a number of other polls 22:59.333 --> 23:02.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% on election day was 39%, in terms of his own approval. 23:02.866 --> 23:05.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - So maybe that's the low end of his base. 23:05.100 --> 23:06.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - So here's the thing that I think 23:06.900 --> 23:09.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% is very interesting about this moment. 23:09.066 --> 23:11.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Imagine if the Russia investigation had not 23:11.733 --> 23:16.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% created a toxic environment for Donald Trump from day one. 23:16.000 --> 23:17.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, they come into the White House 23:17.900 --> 23:19.166 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% and they had told him, 23:19.166 --> 23:20.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% they know according to multiple reports, 23:20.466 --> 23:24.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% they said, you will have a repeal bill by Easter, 23:24.433 --> 23:26.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% you will have a tax bill by August, 23:26.833 --> 23:29.166 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% and you will have an infrastructure bill by Christmas. 23:29.166 --> 23:30.400 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% That's what they said to him. 23:30.400 --> 23:31.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Donald Trump has no experience in politics, 23:31.866 --> 23:33.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% this is new to him 23:33.100 --> 23:34.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% he says okay, fine. - He believes it, 23:34.366 --> 23:35.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% He's like, great. - He believes it. 23:35.300 --> 23:36.566 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And then August rolls around, 23:36.566 --> 23:38.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% he's got nothing, okay, and he says, 23:38.066 --> 23:41.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I trusted you, I gave you, I said I would sign anything 23:41.600 --> 23:43.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% you pass, and you haven't passed it. 23:43.966 --> 23:46.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% So now, here's what's going to happen. 23:46.133 --> 23:48.300 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I'm going to start dealing with the other side. 23:48.300 --> 23:52.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% He has the ability to reach to Chuck Schumer in particular 23:52.833 --> 23:56.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and say, I will give you this in exchange for this. 23:56.333 --> 23:58.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I know there will be enough feckless Republicans 23:58.700 --> 24:01.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% who just come along with me because I am their party, 24:01.166 --> 24:04.133 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% and they still have this illusion that I'm the leader of it. 24:04.133 --> 24:05.300 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (laughter) 24:05.300 --> 24:06.766 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% To go along with it. 24:06.766 --> 24:09.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Here's the very interesting thing that he could do. 24:09.733 --> 24:10.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I wrote a piece back in May 24:10.966 --> 24:11.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% saying that Trump needed to pivot 24:11.933 --> 24:13.733 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to working with the Democrats 24:13.733 --> 24:17.900 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% in order to forestall an impeachment election, effectively. 24:18.933 --> 24:19.766 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% Here's the type- 24:19.766 --> 24:21.300 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - Let me stop you. 24:21.300 --> 24:22.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Impeachment election in the sense that if you don't work 24:22.766 --> 24:23.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% with Democrats, you're going to get nothing done. 24:23.933 --> 24:24.866 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% - Yes. 24:24.866 --> 24:25.800 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - 2018's going to come around, 24:25.800 --> 24:26.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Democrats take back the House, 24:26.966 --> 24:28.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and the pre-condition to impeachment 24:28.666 --> 24:30.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% is the Democrats taking back the House. 24:30.200 --> 24:33.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% So you hold off the possibility by virtue of accomplishments 24:33.000 --> 24:34.233 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that the Democrats take it back. 24:34.233 --> 24:37.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Imagine that tomorrow Donald Trump proposes 24:37.533 --> 24:40.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to the folks on Capitol Hill, 24:40.466 --> 24:44.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I will pass, I will sign a minimum wage increase 24:46.466 --> 24:50.766 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% in exchange for work requirements for every welfare policy. 24:50.766 --> 24:53.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% How do Republicans vote against that? 24:53.700 --> 24:55.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - [Together] How do Democrats vote against that? 24:55.533 --> 24:56.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - I'm thinking how do Democrats vote against that. 24:56.933 --> 24:58.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - That's the thing, what you end up with is, 24:58.666 --> 25:01.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Donald Trump, he's basically with Democrats 25:01.566 --> 25:02.500 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% on the minimum wage. 25:02.500 --> 25:03.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% He said all sorts of things 25:03.966 --> 25:05.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% about raising the minimum wage over his career. 25:05.500 --> 25:07.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% He is the only Republican you could effectively have 25:07.066 --> 25:09.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% in that job that would say, sure, 15 bucks. 25:09.900 --> 25:11.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - This gets back, we're just about out of time, 25:11.766 --> 25:14.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% this gets back to this idea that he's somehow figured out 25:14.000 --> 25:16.100 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% that the Buchanan/Santorum/Huckabee version 25:16.100 --> 25:18.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% of economic nationalism was the right course to pursue. 25:18.433 --> 25:20.366 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% This gives Trump a ton of credit. 25:20.366 --> 25:23.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% If Trump is smart enough to figure this out, 25:23.666 --> 25:25.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% then maybe he's smart enough to get re-elected 25:25.133 --> 25:27.600 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% or hold off being removed. 25:27.600 --> 25:31.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - He uses the country's tribalism to his benefit 25:31.066 --> 25:33.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% over and over and over again. 25:33.100 --> 25:34.333 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% - It's amazing. 25:34.333 --> 25:36.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% - Because he has the capability to sort of 25:36.200 --> 25:38.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% look at these things and not behave 25:38.500 --> 25:40.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% like the polite politician, 25:40.066 --> 25:42.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% instead to just wrap his arms around these things. 25:42.600 --> 25:44.133 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - Well, we're done. 25:44.133 --> 25:46.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% We're going to wrap our arms around the end of our show. 25:46.133 --> 25:47.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Ben Domenech, so much fun to talk to you 25:47.766 --> 25:49.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and learn so much, thank you very much. 25:49.400 --> 25:50.333 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% - Great to be here. 25:50.333 --> 25:51.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% - Ben Domenech, thank you. 25:51.066 --> 25:53.733 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (applause) 25:53.733 --> 25:55.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% We'd love to have you join us in the studio. 25:55.800 --> 26:00.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Visit our website at klru.org/overheard 26:00.166 --> 26:02.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to find invitations to interviews, 26:02.233 --> 26:04.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Q and As with our audience and guests, 26:04.400 --> 26:07.366 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and an archive of past episodes. 26:07.366 --> 26:09.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - I will concede that I'm an emphatic supporter 26:09.733 --> 26:12.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% of significant reform to our educational system. 26:12.966 --> 26:14.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I think it's actually the biggest problem 26:14.300 --> 26:15.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that we've had in the United States 26:15.733 --> 26:17.433 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% for the past decade and a half, 26:17.433 --> 26:19.200 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and perhaps even beyond that. 26:19.200 --> 26:21.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% We have not devoted the kind, 26:21.266 --> 26:23.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I actually think that one of the biggest travesties 26:23.500 --> 26:26.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% of the Bush administration was No Child Left Behind. 26:26.833 --> 26:29.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I think it did not work the way they intended it to work. 26:29.700 --> 26:31.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% - [Narrator] Funding for Overheard with Evan Smith 26:31.700 --> 26:34.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% is provided in part by Hillco Partners, 26:34.766 --> 26:37.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% a Texas Government Affairs consultancy, 26:37.333 --> 26:39.833 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and by Claire and Carl Stuart.