WEBVTT 00:01.301 --> 00:01.901 >> FUNDING FOR OVERHEARD WITH 00:01.901 --> 00:03.503 EVAN SMITH IS PROVIDED IN PART 00:03.503 --> 00:06.706 BY MFI FOUNDATION, IMPROVING THE 00:06.706 --> 00:07.907 QUALITY OF LIFE WITHIN OUR 00:07.907 --> 00:08.508 COMMUNITY. 00:08.508 --> 00:10.043 AND FROM THE TEXAS BOARD OF 00:10.043 --> 00:12.145 LEGAL SPECIALIZATION, BOARD 00:12.145 --> 00:14.047 CERTIFIED ATTORNEYS IN YOUR 00:14.047 --> 00:14.948 COMMUNITY. 00:14.948 --> 00:16.249 EXPERIENCED, RESPECTED AND 00:16.249 --> 00:17.350 TESTED. 00:17.350 --> 00:19.753 ALSO BY HILCO PARTNERS, TEXAS 00:19.753 --> 00:21.755 GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS CONSULTANCY, 00:21.755 --> 00:23.857 AND ITS GLOBAL HEALTHCARE 00:23.857 --> 00:25.759 CONSULTING BUSINESS UNIT, HILCO 00:25.759 --> 00:26.559 HEALTH. 00:26.559 --> 00:29.863 AND BY THE ALICE KLEBERG 00:29.863 --> 00:32.065 REYNOLDS FOUNDATION, AND VIEWERS 00:32.065 --> 00:32.665 LIKE YOU. 00:32.665 --> 00:32.966 THANK YOU. 00:32.966 --> 00:34.668 >> I'M EVAN SMITH. 00:34.668 --> 00:35.969 THEY'RE VETERAN POLITICAL 00:35.969 --> 00:37.671 REPORTERS WHO HAVE MASTERED THE 00:37.671 --> 00:38.672 ART OF THE SCOOP-FILLED 00:38.672 --> 00:41.074 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN. 00:41.074 --> 00:45.178 THEIR BEST TELLING TOME "GAME 00:45.178 --> 00:47.480 CHANGE," THEIR FOLLOW-UP ON THE 00:47.480 --> 00:50.884 2012 RACE, "DOUBLE DOWN" IS NOW 00:50.884 --> 00:51.584 IN STORES. 00:51.584 --> 00:54.587 THEY'RE JOHN HEILEMANN AND MARK 00:54.587 --> 00:56.990 HALPERIN, THIS IS OVERHEARD. 00:56.990 --> 00:58.291 >> I GUESS WE CAN'T FIRE HIM 00:58.291 --> 00:58.792 NOW. 00:58.792 --> 01:00.493 >> I GUESS WE CAN'T FIRE HIM 01:00.493 --> 01:02.095 NOW. 01:02.095 --> 01:03.697 IT WOULD BE NICE THAT I WIN AN 01:03.697 --> 01:04.297 EMMY. 01:04.297 --> 01:05.799 BEING ON THE SUPREME COURT WAS 01:05.799 --> 01:07.801 AN IMPROBABLE DREAM. 01:07.801 --> 01:08.902 IT'S HARD WORK, AND IT'S 01:08.902 --> 01:11.838 CONTROVERSIAL. 01:11.838 --> 01:13.340 >> IT'S JOURNALISTS WHO PROVIDE 01:13.340 --> 01:13.940 THAT. 01:13.940 --> 01:15.642 >> WINDOW ROLLS DOWN AND A GUY 01:15.642 --> 01:20.347 SAYS, HEY, HE GOES TILL 11:00. 01:20.347 --> 01:25.752 [LAUGHTER]. 01:25.752 --> 01:27.454 >> MARK, JOHN, WELCOME. 01:27.454 --> 01:28.755 >> GREAT TO BE HERE. 01:28.755 --> 01:29.856 >> NICE TO 01:29.856 --> 01:32.659 HAVE YOU BACK. 01:32.659 --> 01:34.260 CONGRATULATIONS. 01:34.260 --> 01:36.262 NO. 3 ON THE HARD SELLER BEST 01:36.262 --> 01:40.367 DEBUT, NO. 1 eBOOK IN AMERICA. 01:40.367 --> 01:40.967 >> VICTORY. 01:40.967 --> 01:41.968 GREAT SUCCESS. 01:41.968 --> 01:42.369 >> THANK YOU. 01:42.369 --> 01:44.070 >> THIS IS A FANTASTIC BOOK IN 01:44.070 --> 01:45.472 WHICH WE LEARN SO MUCH MORE THAN 01:45.472 --> 01:47.674 WE THOUGHT WE KNEW AT THE TIME, 01:47.674 --> 01:48.875 JUST LIKE THE LAST ONE. 01:48.875 --> 01:50.076 SOMETHING I GUESS WE DID KNOW AT 01:50.076 --> 01:52.379 THE TIME, BUT IS REINFORCED AS I 01:52.379 --> 01:54.381 READ THE BOOK, JOHN, IS THIS IS 01:54.381 --> 01:56.583 AN ELECTION BETWEEN TWO FLAWED 01:56.583 --> 01:58.585 CANDIDATES. I GUESS EVERY 01:58.585 --> 02:00.286 ELECTION, TO SOME DEGREE, IS AN 02:00.286 --> 02:02.088 ELECTION BETWEEN TWO FLAWED 02:02.088 --> 02:03.690 CANDIDATES, BUT IT REALLY SEEMED 02:03.690 --> 02:05.792 IN THIS CASE THAT EITHER OF 02:05.792 --> 02:08.795 THESE GUYS COULD HAVE LOST THIS 02:08.795 --> 02:14.034 RACE. 02:14.034 --> 02:15.035 >> PRESIDENT OBAMA'S LEAD WAS 02:15.035 --> 02:17.237 SMALL BUT DURABLE THROUGHOUT. 02:17.237 --> 02:18.938 GOVERNOR ROMNEY IS A FASCINATING 02:18.938 --> 02:20.240 CHARACTER THAT COMES THROUGH IN 02:20.240 --> 02:20.940 THIS BOOK. 02:20.940 --> 02:23.243 REALLY, THE PICTURE OF ROMNEY SO 02:23.243 --> 02:26.046 MUCH AT ODDS WITH WHAT SO MANY 02:26.046 --> 02:27.947 PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY DEMOCRATS AND 02:27.947 --> 02:28.848 ESPECIALLY IN THE WHITE HOUSE, 02:28.848 --> 02:30.950 THOUGHT OF ROMNEY. 02:30.950 --> 02:36.856 HE'S REALLY AMBIVALENCE 02:36.856 --> 02:39.259 INCARNATE THROUGHOUT THE BOOK. 02:39.259 --> 02:41.261 47%, WHEN HE'S CHALLENGED, HE 02:41.261 --> 02:43.863 DOESN'T HAVE THE WILL OF THE 02:43.863 --> 02:45.665 RESOLVE AND THE ENERGY TO GO OUT 02:45.665 --> 02:47.467 AND CONFRONT THOSE CHALLENGES, 02:47.467 --> 02:49.169 HE'S ALMOST PASSIVE ABOUT IT 02:49.169 --> 02:50.770 WHEN HE'S HIT IN THESE MOMENTS 02:50.770 --> 02:51.471 WHEN HE REALLY SHOULD BE 02:51.471 --> 02:53.473 MARSHALLING ALL OF HIS FORCES. 02:53.473 --> 02:54.674 IT'S KIND OF AN AMAZING PICTURE 02:54.674 --> 02:56.476 IN SOME WAY BECAUSE IT'S NOT AT 02:56.476 --> 02:57.977 ALL WHAT MOST PEOPLE THOUGHT. 02:57.977 --> 03:00.680 >> THE CONFIDENCE HE MAY LACK IN 03:00.680 --> 03:01.981 HIMSELF IS MET BY THE CONFIDENCE 03:01.981 --> 03:03.883 OTHERS LACK IN HIM ALL 03:03.883 --> 03:05.785 THROUGHOUT HIS NOMINATIONS, EVEN 03:05.785 --> 03:07.287 WHEN IT SEEMS INEVITABLE, 03:07.287 --> 03:08.788 THERE'S STILL AN EFFORT BY SOME 03:08.788 --> 03:10.924 PEOPLE TO GO FIND SOMEBODY ELSE. 03:10.924 --> 03:12.425 THEY THINK, WHETHER IT'S DONORS 03:12.425 --> 03:14.327 OR POLITICAL PROFESSIONALS, HE 03:14.327 --> 03:15.829 MAY NOT REALLY BE UP TO THE 03:15.829 --> 03:16.429 TASK. 03:16.429 --> 03:17.731 >> WHAT'S INTERESTING TO US, THE 03:17.731 --> 03:19.332 GROUP THAT WAS LOOKING FOR 03:19.332 --> 03:20.433 SOMEONE ELSE FOR THE MOST PART 03:20.433 --> 03:22.035 WOULD BE PEOPLE THAT WOULD BE 03:22.035 --> 03:25.438 CHARTER MEMBERS OF THE MITT 03:25.438 --> 03:27.040 ROMNEY FAN CLUB. 03:27.040 --> 03:27.340 >> RIGHT. 03:27.340 --> 03:29.442 >> HE DID SERVE ONLY ONE TERM AS 03:29.442 --> 03:30.944 GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS. 03:30.944 --> 03:33.146 BASED ON HIS RESUME AND HIS 03:33.146 --> 03:33.947 BEARING, YOU WOULD THINK THAT 03:33.947 --> 03:35.949 OTHER ELITE RICH PEOPLE WOULD BE 03:35.949 --> 03:36.649 ALL FOR HIM. 03:36.649 --> 03:38.551 WE WRITE ABOUT A GROUP OF 03:38.551 --> 03:45.258 MILLIONAIRES AND BILLIONAIRES 03:45.258 --> 03:47.560 TRY TO GET CHRIS CHRISTIE IN THE 03:47.560 --> 03:50.163 RUNNING. 03:50.163 --> 03:52.465 MITT ROMNEY IS IN A WAR WITH 03:52.465 --> 03:53.466 RICK SANTORUM. 03:53.466 --> 03:55.568 WE'RE EITHER GOING TO GET RICK 03:55.568 --> 03:57.971 SANTORUM AS THEIR NOMINEE OR A 03:57.971 --> 04:00.473 VERY WEAK MITT ROMNEY AND THEY 04:00.473 --> 04:01.975 THINK CAN WE GET SOMEONE ELSE 04:01.975 --> 04:02.275 IN. 04:02.275 --> 04:04.678 THAT GROUP INCLUDED HAILEY 04:04.678 --> 04:07.580 BARBER, IT INCLUDED JOHN 04:07.580 --> 04:08.882 BOEHNER, THE SPEAKER OF THE 04:08.882 --> 04:10.617 HOUSE, AND IT INCLUDED PAUL 04:10.617 --> 04:13.720 RYAN, WHO JUST A FEW MONTHS 04:13.720 --> 04:17.123 LATER WOULD BECOME MITT ROMNEY'S 04:17.123 --> 04:17.924 RUNNING MATE. 04:17.924 --> 04:18.324 >> RIGHT. 04:18.324 --> 04:20.627 >> THESE OVERTURES, JOHN, THAT 04:20.627 --> 04:22.529 MARK IS REFERRING TO, WE HEARD A 04:22.529 --> 04:25.131 LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT OUT IN THE 04:25.131 --> 04:27.934 GEN POP, THE CHRISTIE APPROACH 04:27.934 --> 04:31.538 TO THESE FOLKS WAS REMARKABLE 04:31.538 --> 04:33.139 BECAUSE AS MUCH AS WE THOUGHT 04:33.139 --> 04:34.941 CHRIS CHRISTIE KIND OF LOOKED AT 04:34.941 --> 04:36.843 THE RACE, YOU SPEND A LOT OF 04:36.843 --> 04:38.845 TIME REFERRING TO AS HAMLET OF 04:38.845 --> 04:42.248 DRUM SWACKET. 04:42.248 --> 04:44.751 HE'S WATCHING UP TO THE -- HE'S 04:44.751 --> 04:46.152 WALKING UP TO THE EDGE OF BEING 04:46.152 --> 04:49.656 MARIO PLOMO IN THIS RACE, 04:49.656 --> 04:51.458 ULTIMATELY DECIDES NOT TO RUN. 04:51.458 --> 04:52.959 BUT CHRIS CHRISTIE WAS LOOKING 04:52.959 --> 04:55.662 AT THIS FAIRLY LATE INTO IT. 04:55.662 --> 04:56.863 >> MUCH MORE CLOSER THAN ANYBODY 04:56.863 --> 04:57.964 THOUGHT AND MUCH MORE CLOSER 04:57.964 --> 04:59.666 THAN HE EVER ADMITTED UNTIL THE 04:59.666 --> 05:01.468 DAY HE ANNOUNCED HE WASN'T GOING 05:01.468 --> 05:02.268 TO DO IT. 05:02.268 --> 05:03.670 UP UNTIL THAT MOMENT, HE KEPT 05:03.670 --> 05:05.271 SAYING NOTHING'S CHANGED, 05:05.271 --> 05:06.673 NOTHING'S CHANGED, IN FACT, IN 05:06.673 --> 05:08.375 PRIVATE, HE'S ON THE PHONE WITH 05:08.375 --> 05:09.876 GEORGE W. BUSH, HE'S ON THE 05:09.876 --> 05:11.878 PHONE WITH BARBARA BUSH, HE'S 05:11.878 --> 05:13.580 MEETING WITH DONORS, THE FOUNDER 05:13.580 --> 05:15.382 OF HOME DEPOT, HE'S MEETING AT 05:15.382 --> 05:17.984 HIS HOUSE WITH CARL ROWE TO GO 05:17.984 --> 05:19.085 THROUGH THE STEPS OF WHAT IT 05:19.085 --> 05:19.586 WOULD TAKE. 05:19.586 --> 05:21.588 HE'S DOING A LOT OF STUFF, GOING 05:21.588 --> 05:24.090 PUBLICLY TO THE REAGAN LIBRARY 05:24.090 --> 05:26.192 AND GETTING SPEECH THERAPY, HE'S 05:26.192 --> 05:27.994 DOING A LOT OF RECON FOR A GUY 05:27.994 --> 05:31.097 THAT SAYS HE'S NOT AT ALL 05:31.097 --> 05:31.998 GETTING IN THE RACE. 05:31.998 --> 05:33.700 AND THEN HE SAYS HE'S GOING TO 05:33.700 --> 05:34.901 DECIDE THIS WEEKEND. 05:34.901 --> 05:36.102 AND THEN AT THE END OF THE 05:36.102 --> 05:38.104 WEEKEND, HE STILL HASN'T MADE UP 05:38.104 --> 05:38.605 HIS MIND. 05:38.605 --> 05:40.407 HE STILL NEEDS ONE MORE DAY WITH 05:40.407 --> 05:42.108 HIS MIND TO TELL HIM, MAYBE THIS 05:42.108 --> 05:43.610 COULD WORK, AND HIS GUT THAT 05:43.610 --> 05:45.111 TELLS HIM, I'M NOT SURE I'M 05:45.111 --> 05:46.413 READY FOR THIS. 05:46.413 --> 05:48.114 >> THE FACT THAT HE'S 05:48.114 --> 05:53.319 CONSIDERING IT IS BORN OF ANGST, 05:53.319 --> 05:55.021 MY FAVORITE THING OF THE ENTIRE 05:55.021 --> 05:56.222 BOOK, AS I'VE SHARED WITH YOU, 05:56.222 --> 05:58.725 WHEN GOVERNOR CHRIS CHRISTIE 05:58.725 --> 06:02.429 DECIDES NOT TO RUN, HE BRINGS 06:02.429 --> 06:06.032 THE ROMNEYS TO HIS HOUSE TO TELL 06:06.032 --> 06:09.369 THEM HE'S GIVING THEM HIS PRIZED 06:09.369 --> 06:11.471 ENDORSEMENT IN THE RACE. 06:11.471 --> 06:13.773 GOVERNOR CHRIS CHRISTIE SAYS I 06:13.773 --> 06:15.275 DO KNOW HOW BIG THIS IS. 06:15.275 --> 06:16.676 AND I THOUGHT THIS GUY, I HOPE 06:16.676 --> 06:18.378 THIS GUY RUNS, TO SEE THIS GUY 06:18.378 --> 06:19.879 AND RICK PERRY, FOR INSTANCE, IN 06:19.879 --> 06:21.781 A RACE TOGETHER KNOCKING HEADS 06:21.781 --> 06:23.283 WOULD BE SOMETHING ELSE. 06:23.283 --> 06:25.185 >> WELL, PART OF WHAT THE TIMING 06:25.185 --> 06:27.287 OF GOVERNOR CHRIS CHRISTIE 06:27.287 --> 06:28.688 INTENSE CONSIDERATION OF THIS 06:28.688 --> 06:30.090 WAS AROUND THE TIME 06:30.090 --> 06:31.191 GOVERNOR PERRY GOT IN. 06:31.191 --> 06:32.992 HE DIDN'T THINK MUCH OF 06:32.992 --> 06:34.394 GOVERNOR PERRY AND HE THOUGHT 06:34.394 --> 06:35.695 ROMNEY WOULD PROBABLY BE THE 06:35.695 --> 06:37.397 NOMINEE, BUT THE FACT THAT 06:37.397 --> 06:41.001 GOVERNOR PERRY WAS BEING THOUGHT 06:41.001 --> 06:44.304 OF AS SUCH A SERIOUS CANDIDATE 06:44.304 --> 06:45.805 REALLY GOT UNDER HIS SKIN. 06:45.805 --> 06:49.009 HE THOUGHT IF THIS IS GOING TO 06:49.009 --> 06:50.810 BE THE BIG DOG IN THIS RACE, 06:50.810 --> 06:51.911 MAYBE I SHOULD RUN. 06:51.911 --> 06:53.513 IF A GROUP OF PEOPLE, NOT VERY 06:53.513 --> 06:55.515 BIG, BUT, YOU KNOW, RECOGNIZABLE 06:55.515 --> 06:57.017 WHO THINK SOME DAY I'M GOING TO 06:57.017 --> 06:58.218 RUN FOR PRESIDENT, AND THE 06:58.218 --> 07:00.320 QUESTION THEY ALWAYS FACE IS, IS 07:00.320 --> 07:01.421 THIS MY TIME? 07:01.421 --> 07:04.824 CAN I WAIT FOUR MORE YEARS? 07:04.824 --> 07:07.227 IN THIS CASE, CHRIS CHRISTIE 07:07.227 --> 07:09.863 DECIDES HE COULD WAIT FOUR MORE 07:09.863 --> 07:10.363 YEARS. 07:10.363 --> 07:11.464 >> : I THINK JOHN IS CORRECT, 07:11.464 --> 07:13.667 WHEN YOU GET INTO THE RACE AT 07:13.667 --> 07:15.268 THAT POINT, PRESIDENT OBAMA IS 07:15.268 --> 07:17.771 THE PRESUMPTIVE FAVORITE. 07:17.771 --> 07:19.072 THE STATE OF THE ECONOMY, THE 07:19.072 --> 07:20.373 UNEMPLOYMENT RATE, AND SO MANY 07:20.373 --> 07:21.875 OTHER THINGS COMING OUT OF THE 07:21.875 --> 07:25.879 DEBT CEILING DEBACLE OF 2011. 07:25.879 --> 07:28.181 HE WAS THE BEATABLE INCUMBENT, 07:28.181 --> 07:30.083 RIGHT? 07:30.083 --> 07:30.984 >> ABSOLUTELY BEATABLE. 07:30.984 --> 07:32.385 AND IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE 07:32.385 --> 07:33.787 PRESIDENT FACED IN TERM OF THE 07:33.787 --> 07:35.188 WRONG TRACK PEOPLE THINKING OF 07:35.188 --> 07:36.890 THE COUNTRY, HE'S ON THE WRONG 07:36.890 --> 07:38.391 TRACK, THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE, 07:38.391 --> 07:40.093 THINGS GOT A LITTLE BIT BETTER, 07:40.093 --> 07:41.294 THE PERCEPTIONS AND THE 07:41.294 --> 07:42.595 STATISTICS GOT A LITTLE BIT 07:42.595 --> 07:43.797 BETTER TOWARDS THE ECONOMY 07:43.797 --> 07:44.898 TOWARDS THE END. 07:44.898 --> 07:47.600 BUT TO THE END OF 2012, I THINK 07:47.600 --> 07:48.702 IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT A 07:48.702 --> 07:51.404 STRONGER CANDIDATE WOULD HAVE AT 07:51.404 --> 07:52.906 LEAST MADE IT A HIGHLY 07:52.906 --> 07:56.609 COMPETITIVE RACE, MAYBE TAKING 07:56.609 --> 07:59.512 TRADITIONAL STATES, VIRGINIA. 07:59.512 --> 08:00.814 >> HAD YOU MADE THIS A CAMPAIGN 08:00.814 --> 08:04.918 LITIGATED ABOUT THAT AS OPPOSED 08:04.918 --> 08:08.221 TO ANOTHER SUBJECT. 08:08.221 --> 08:09.856 JOHN, WE'RE USED TO THE 08:09.856 --> 08:12.058 PRESIDENT'S SIGNATURE PHRASE, A 08:12.058 --> 08:13.259 PHRASE THAT'S BEEN ASSOCIATED 08:13.259 --> 08:15.362 WITH HIM, "I GOT THIS." THE 08:15.362 --> 08:16.963 PRESIDENT'S COOL UNDER FIRE. 08:16.963 --> 08:18.465 THERE WERE MANY MOMENTS, NOT 08:18.465 --> 08:20.166 JUST THAT FIRST DEBATE IN 08:20.166 --> 08:23.570 DENVER, WHERE THE PRESIDENT 08:23.570 --> 08:25.171 DIDN'T SEEM TO HAVE VERY MUCH OF 08:25.171 --> 08:27.173 ANYTHING AS A CAMPAIGNER, WE 08:27.173 --> 08:30.276 WERE USED TO THE 2008 OBAMA. 08:30.276 --> 08:32.479 THE 2012 OBAMA WAS MUCH LESS 08:32.479 --> 08:32.779 CONFIDENT. 08:32.779 --> 08:33.780 >> I THINK THAT'S TRUE. 08:33.780 --> 08:35.482 THERE WERE TWO BIG MOMENTS, 08:35.482 --> 08:37.584 PUTTING ASIDE THE DEBATES YOU 08:37.584 --> 08:40.387 TALKED A MINUTE AGO WHEN HE WAS 08:40.387 --> 08:42.088 AT HIS MOST VULNERABLE, YOU 08:42.088 --> 08:43.490 KNOW, THE PRESIDENT'S GOING 08:43.490 --> 08:45.191 THROUGH THIS SERIES OF MEETINGS 08:45.191 --> 08:47.093 WITH HIS SENIOR ADVISERS, AND 08:47.093 --> 08:48.795 THEY REALLY ARE KIND OF AMAZING. 08:48.795 --> 08:50.397 WE DETAILED THEM MEETING BY 08:50.397 --> 08:51.798 MEETING, BECAUSE THEY ARE IN A 08:51.798 --> 08:54.801 LOT OF WAYS -- ONE PERSON IN THE 08:54.801 --> 08:56.603 MEETING DESCRIBES THEM WHERE THE 08:56.603 --> 08:57.704 PRESIDENT IS JUST JUST LAYING 08:57.704 --> 09:00.507 OUT STRATEGIES AND TACTICS, 09:00.507 --> 09:02.609 GOING THROUGH, REMAKES THIS LONG 09:02.609 --> 09:04.411 LIST OF REGRETS IN OFFICE, THIS 09:04.411 --> 09:06.312 IS A GUY WHO'S SEARCHING, HE'S 09:06.312 --> 09:07.514 NEVER REALLY SUFFERED ANYTHING 09:07.514 --> 09:12.352 LIKE THESE KIND OF SETBACKS. 09:12.352 --> 09:15.655 HE'S REALLY TRYING TO FIGURE OUT 09:15.655 --> 09:18.458 WHAT HAVE I DONE, VERY UNCERTAIN 09:18.458 --> 09:19.259 OF HIS FOOTING. 09:19.259 --> 09:20.560 AND AT THAT TIME, THE REST OF 09:20.560 --> 09:22.062 THE CAMPAIGN, EVEN WHEN THEY'RE 09:22.062 --> 09:30.970 KIND OF AN -- ANNIHILATING ON 09:30.970 --> 09:32.672 NEGATIVE ADDS. 09:32.672 --> 09:34.274 >> EVEN ONE OF THOSE THINGS, 09:34.274 --> 09:35.575 VERY FRUSTRATED WITH THAT. 09:35.575 --> 09:37.077 >> THE REALITY, JOHN, HE HAS 09:37.077 --> 09:38.878 BEEN A CONTRADICTION IN A LOT OF 09:38.878 --> 09:39.279 WAYS. 09:39.279 --> 09:41.281 HE SAYS I WANT TO RUN A POSITIVE 09:41.281 --> 09:42.682 CAMPAIGN, BUT HE RAN THE MOST 09:42.682 --> 09:45.285 NEGATIVE ADS IN 2008 I GUESS 09:45.285 --> 09:48.188 IT'S SAID OF ANY CANDIDATE EVER, 09:48.188 --> 09:50.490 AND IN 2012, THEY TRIED TO TAKE 09:50.490 --> 09:52.692 OUT, AND I GUESS ULTIMATELY TOOK 09:52.692 --> 09:55.895 OUT, ROMNEY OUT OF THE REALM OF 09:55.895 --> 09:57.297 PLAUSIBILITY AS HE WAS THE 09:57.297 --> 09:58.798 MASTER OF NEGATIVE CAMPAIGN. 09:58.798 --> 10:00.500 SO FOR ALL OF HIS TALK OF NOT 10:00.500 --> 10:02.102 BEING COMFORTABLE WITH IT, IT 10:02.102 --> 10:04.104 WAS A SUCCESSFUL TACTIC. 10:04.104 --> 10:06.206 >> YOU'RE RIGHT, IN 2008, HE RAN 10:06.206 --> 10:08.708 TONS AND TONS OF NEGATIVE ADS 10:08.708 --> 10:09.743 BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE 10:09.743 --> 10:11.244 RATIO, AS MUCH NEGATIVE AS THERE 10:11.244 --> 10:13.747 WAS IN 2008, THERE WAS ALSO THIS 10:13.747 --> 10:16.449 WHOLE POSITIVE ASPIRATIONAL 10:16.449 --> 10:17.450 SIDE. 10:17.450 --> 10:19.352 >> TEAR DOWN MITT ROMNEY. 10:19.352 --> 10:20.854 A MEASURE, MARK, THAT YOU 10:20.854 --> 10:22.355 REVEALED IN THE BOOK, IN FACT, 10:22.355 --> 10:24.257 WHEN THE BOOK WAS FIRST IN 10:24.257 --> 10:26.159 PEOPLE'S HANDS, MAYBE A LITTLE 10:26.159 --> 10:27.861 BIT EARLIER THAN YOU-ALL 10:27.861 --> 10:29.262 INTENDED FOR IT TO BE, AND THERE 10:29.262 --> 10:30.864 WAS NEWS FROM THE BOOK, IT WAS 10:30.864 --> 10:32.265 RELATED TO EXACTLY WHAT SORT OF 10:32.265 --> 10:33.967 A SITUATION THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN 10:33.967 --> 10:37.370 THOUGHT THEY WERE IN THAT BILL 10:37.370 --> 10:38.471 DAILY, THEN THE CHIEF OF STAFF, 10:38.471 --> 10:40.974 AND SOME OF THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN 10:40.974 --> 10:43.076 STAFF APPARENTLY POLLED SWAPPING 10:43.076 --> 10:45.178 OUT JOE BIDEN FOR HILARY CLINTON 10:45.178 --> 10:47.681 AS A RUNNING MATE IN 2012 MIGHT 10:47.681 --> 10:49.382 BE A DESIRABLE IDEA, BUT IT 10:49.382 --> 10:50.784 MIGHT BE A NECESSARY THING TO 10:50.784 --> 10:54.287 PULL THE PRESIDENT OVER THE LINE 10:54.287 --> 10:55.789 SO UNCERTAIN WERE THEY ABOUT 10:55.789 --> 10:58.191 THIS ELECTION. 10:58.191 --> 10:59.392 >> THEY COULDN'T ASSUME THAT IT 10:59.392 --> 11:00.994 WOULD LEAD TO A WEAKENED 11:00.994 --> 11:02.896 REPUBLICAN NOMINEE. 11:02.896 --> 11:03.296 >> YEAH. 11:03.296 --> 11:04.798 >> AND THE PRESIDENT FELT 11:04.798 --> 11:08.401 OBLIGATED TO LOOK AT EVERYTHING. 11:08.401 --> 11:09.836 BILL DAILY, WHO WAS THEN THE 11:09.836 --> 11:11.938 CHIEF OF STAFF, HAS KNOWN JOE 11:11.938 --> 11:15.141 BIDEN FOR A COUPLE OF DECADES, 11:15.141 --> 11:17.944 THEY'RE VERY CLOSE, BILL DAILY 11:17.944 --> 11:19.446 WAS THE LEADER IN SAYING WE OWE 11:19.446 --> 11:20.547 IT TO THE PRESIDENT TO LOOK AT 11:20.547 --> 11:20.747 THIS. 11:20.747 --> 11:22.248 THEY KNEW THERE WOULD BE A 11:22.248 --> 11:24.451 DOWNSIDE, YOU REPLACE A RUNNING 11:24.451 --> 11:25.652 MATE IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT, 11:25.652 --> 11:27.053 IT'S GOING TO APPEAR WEAK AND 11:27.053 --> 11:28.755 MAYBE PANICKY, BUT IF 11:28.755 --> 11:31.057 HILARY CLINTON WILL BOOST US IN 11:31.057 --> 11:32.859 SOME WAY IN THE POLLS, WE'VE GOT 11:32.859 --> 11:34.060 TO LOOK AT IT. 11:34.060 --> 11:35.362 WE SAY IN THE BOOK IN THIS 11:35.362 --> 11:36.763 POLITICAL TEAM IT WAS BETTER TO 11:36.763 --> 11:41.568 BE HARDHEADED THAN SOFTHEARTED. 11:41.568 --> 11:45.271 AND IF IT EVER CAME OUT, AS IT 11:45.271 --> 11:48.174 DID WHEN OUR BOOK CAME OUT, THAT 11:48.174 --> 11:50.076 BIDEN'S FEELINGS WOULD BE HURT. 11:50.076 --> 11:51.978 PEOPLE DON'T VOTE FOR THE BOTTOM 11:51.978 --> 11:53.580 OF THE TICKET, AND WHATEVER 11:53.580 --> 11:56.483 POPULARITY, HILARY CLINTON 11:56.483 --> 11:57.884 DIDN'T BOOST IT THAT MUCH. 11:57.884 --> 11:58.885 >> JUST THE FACT THAT THEY 11:58.885 --> 12:00.387 CONSIDERED IT, PUT MONEY ON IT. 12:00.387 --> 12:02.088 >> IT SHOWS YOU, A, HOW 12:02.088 --> 12:04.090 DESPERATE THEY ARE, AND, B, 12:04.090 --> 12:05.392 AGAIN, HOW KIND OF CUT-THROAT 12:05.392 --> 12:07.394 THEY ARE, TAKE TO THE PRESIDENT 12:07.394 --> 12:09.429 THE NOTION MAYBE WE'VE GOT TO 12:09.429 --> 12:11.831 REPLACE YOUR FRIEND JOE BIDEN 12:11.831 --> 12:16.336 WHO YOU'VE BASICALLY ALREADY 12:16.336 --> 12:17.537 PROMISED YOU'RE GOING TO RUN 12:17.537 --> 12:17.937 WITH. 12:17.937 --> 12:19.439 >> HOW DID SOMETHING LIKE THAT 12:19.439 --> 12:21.041 NOT GET OUT AT THE TIME? 12:21.041 --> 12:22.442 THIS BOOK CONTAINS SO MANY 12:22.442 --> 12:23.843 THINGS, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE 12:23.843 --> 12:25.245 BOOK IN A FEW MINUTES. 12:25.245 --> 12:26.846 BUT THERE WERE SO MANY THINGS IN 12:26.846 --> 12:28.048 THIS BOOK, AND THIS WAS AT THE 12:28.048 --> 12:30.450 TOP OF THE PYRAMID, TO THINK IN 12:30.450 --> 12:32.252 THIS WORLD WHERE THERE ARE NO 12:32.252 --> 12:34.054 SECRETS, WHERE EVERYBODY LEAKS, 12:34.054 --> 12:35.655 THERE ARE A THOUSAND WAYS TO 12:35.655 --> 12:37.757 LEARN SOMETHING THAT NEVER 12:37.757 --> 12:39.259 EXISTED BEFORE, HOW DOES 12:39.259 --> 12:40.560 SOMETHING NOT GET OUT? 12:40.560 --> 12:42.562 >> WELL, IN THAT CASE, YOU WILL 12:42.562 --> 12:44.164 RECALL, EVAN, THERE WAS A RUMOR 12:44.164 --> 12:44.664 ABOUT IT. 12:44.664 --> 12:46.566 PEOPLE WILL GO ON CABLE AND 12:46.566 --> 12:47.967 SPECULATE, THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD 12:47.967 --> 12:49.169 IDEA, MAYBE IT'S ON THE TABLE. 12:49.169 --> 12:50.770 AND THE WHITE HOUSE DENIED IT UP 12:50.770 --> 12:52.872 AND DOWN, WHICH, OF COURSE, ONLY 12:52.872 --> 12:54.274 MADE US MORE INTERESTED IN 12:54.274 --> 12:55.475 TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER OR 12:55.475 --> 12:56.476 NOT THERE WAS SOMETHING THERE. 12:56.476 --> 12:59.679 IT WAS A PRETTY CLOSELY GUARDED 12:59.679 --> 13:02.082 SECRET WITHIN A VERY SMALL GROUP 13:02.082 --> 13:02.882 OF PEOPLE. 13:02.882 --> 13:04.484 THIS WAS LIKE ONLY A HANDFUL OF 13:04.484 --> 13:06.686 PEOPLE WHO KNEW ABOUT IT BECAUSE 13:06.686 --> 13:07.887 IT WAS SO SENSITIVE. 13:07.887 --> 13:09.222 >> NOW A COMPARABLE EXAMPLE ON 13:09.222 --> 13:11.925 THE OTHER SIDE WOULD ACTUALLY BE 13:11.925 --> 13:13.126 THE VICE PRESIDENTIAL 13:13.126 --> 13:15.829 DELIBERATIONS ON THE OTHER SIDE. 13:15.829 --> 13:19.933 YOU ALL PROVIDE AN EXTRAORDINARY 13:19.933 --> 13:21.334 AMOUNT OF DETAIL ON THE VETTING 13:21.334 --> 13:22.836 OF CANDIDATES, FIRST THE LIST OF 13:22.836 --> 13:24.637 11, THEN DOWN TO THE LIST OF 13:24.637 --> 13:24.938 FIVE. 13:24.938 --> 13:26.940 THIS IDEA THAT IT WAS CALLED 13:26.940 --> 13:28.241 PROJECT GOLDFISH AFTER THE SNACK 13:28.241 --> 13:30.243 CRACKERS, AND THEN EACH OF THE 13:30.243 --> 13:32.045 FIVE FINALISTS FOR THE VICE 13:32.045 --> 13:33.747 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINATION 13:33.747 --> 13:37.150 ALONGSIDE ROMNEY ALL HAD CODE 13:37.150 --> 13:37.851 NAMES. 13:37.851 --> 13:39.152 >> THEY WERE TERRIFIC, REALLY 13:39.152 --> 13:40.854 KIND OF GREAT, ALMOST OBVIOUS, 13:40.854 --> 13:45.058 WINCE, KIND OF CODE NAMES. 13:45.058 --> 13:51.965 PAUL RYAN WAS FISHCONSIN. 13:51.965 --> 13:53.466 >> THEY HAD A CODE NAME FOR YOU, 13:53.466 --> 13:55.168 TOO. 13:55.168 --> 13:56.770 >> I'M NOW UNDONE FOR THE 13:56.770 --> 13:59.472 REMAINDER OF THIS INTERVIEW. 13:59.472 --> 14:01.074 >> THE BEST ONE WAS 14:01.074 --> 14:07.981 CHRIS CHRISTIE WAS PUFFER FISH. 14:07.981 --> 14:08.982 >> THIS IS AFTER WE FIND OUT 14:08.982 --> 14:10.817 EARLIER IN THE BOOK THAT THE 14:10.817 --> 14:12.619 NICKNAME FOR CHRIS CHRISTIE IS 14:12.619 --> 14:13.620 BIG BOY. 14:13.620 --> 14:16.423 BUSH 43'S NICKNAME OF 14:16.423 --> 14:19.225 CHRIS CHRISTIE IS BIG BOY. 14:19.225 --> 14:20.226 THEN THEY HAVE THE VICE 14:20.226 --> 14:24.831 PRESIDENTIAL SWEEPSTAKES AND HIS 14:24.831 --> 14:26.833 CODE NAME IS PUFFER FISH. 14:26.833 --> 14:27.434 KIND OF GREAT. 14:27.434 --> 14:29.436 YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS STUFF UP. 14:29.436 --> 14:31.237 >> VICE PRESIDENTIAL SELECTION 14:31.237 --> 14:33.239 PROCESS IS ALWAYS INTERESTING, 14:33.239 --> 14:37.544 AND IT'S ANOTHER CASE EVERY 14:37.544 --> 14:40.046 POLITICAL REPORTER IN THE 14:40.046 --> 14:41.948 COUNTRY IS TRYING TO BREAK THIS. 14:41.948 --> 14:43.750 IMAGINE IF SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE 14:43.750 --> 14:45.352 REPORTED IN THE CAMPAIGN THAT 14:45.352 --> 14:48.355 CHRIS CHRISTIE'S NICKNAME WAS 14:48.355 --> 14:49.055 PUFFER FISH. 14:49.055 --> 14:50.457 THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN QUITE A 14:50.457 --> 14:50.857 THING. 14:50.857 --> 14:52.359 >> THE VETTING OF CHRIS CHRISTIE 14:52.359 --> 14:54.361 AS A POTENTIAL NOMINEE WHICH 14:54.361 --> 14:56.763 THEY DID AND DID NOT GET ACCESS 14:56.763 --> 14:59.265 TO, I WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO 14:59.265 --> 15:00.166 READ ABOUT THAT. 15:00.166 --> 15:04.170 ROB PORTMAN'S DECISION TO BE 15:04.170 --> 15:05.372 VETTED, EVEN THOUGH HE WAS 15:05.372 --> 15:06.473 CONCERNED ABOUT THE IMPACT ON 15:06.473 --> 15:08.575 HIS SON WHO AT THE TIME WAS NOT 15:08.575 --> 15:10.577 KNOWN NATIONALLY TO BE GAY, ONLY 15:10.577 --> 15:12.879 ON HIS COLLEGE CAMPUS AND 15:12.879 --> 15:13.380 FAMILY. 15:13.380 --> 15:16.483 AND ROB PORTMAN'S DECISION TO 15:16.483 --> 15:19.586 SWITCH HIS POSITION ON SAME-SEX 15:19.586 --> 15:20.987 MARRIAGE BECAUSE OF HIS SON. 15:20.987 --> 15:22.188 >> GREAT HUMAN STORY. 15:22.188 --> 15:25.291 >> ALL ON THE VICE PRESIDENTIAL 15:25.291 --> 15:27.394 STUFF IS NEW STUFF THAT YOU 15:27.394 --> 15:28.595 WOULD HAVE IMAGINED IN THIS 15:28.595 --> 15:30.697 WORLD WOULD HAVE COME OUT. 15:30.697 --> 15:32.198 >> WE HAVE ENJOYED IN BOTH OF 15:32.198 --> 15:36.703 OUR BOOKS FOCUSING ON VICE 15:36.703 --> 15:38.405 PRESIDENTIAL VETTING. 15:38.405 --> 15:39.906 THEY'RE ALL EXAMPLES OF THE SAME 15:39.906 --> 15:41.608 THINGS, IN BOTH -- THE SAME 15:41.608 --> 15:43.209 PHENOMENON, WHICH IS THAT WE 15:43.209 --> 15:45.211 HAVE THIS INCREDIBLY SPED UP 15:45.211 --> 15:48.114 MEDIA ECOLOGY THAT WE LIVE IN 15:48.114 --> 15:50.417 WHERE THE METABOLISM IN THE 15:50.417 --> 15:52.018 MEDIA MOVES SO FAST. 15:52.018 --> 15:54.521 PEOPLE FOCUS ON SUCH A VERY 15:54.521 --> 15:57.524 BRIEF AMOUNT OF TIME, ONE OF THE 15:57.524 --> 15:58.625 THINGS THAT WE BRING REALLY IS 15:58.625 --> 15:59.526 JUST TIME. 15:59.526 --> 16:00.627 >> AND IT'S THE SAME FOCUS, 16:00.627 --> 16:01.227 RIGHT? 16:01.227 --> 16:03.430 >> WE HAVE TIME, SUSTAINED 16:03.430 --> 16:06.232 FOCUS, INTERVIEWS, MANY OF THEM 16:06.232 --> 16:07.534 DONE AFTER ELECTION DAY. 16:07.534 --> 16:08.735 THERE'S NOBODY ON THE WORLD 16:08.735 --> 16:11.271 TODAY WHO'S ON TWITTER, ON 16:11.271 --> 16:13.573 NEWSPAPER, ON TELEVISION IS 16:13.573 --> 16:15.075 GOING BACK AND ASKING PEOPLE 16:15.075 --> 16:17.877 ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED SIX MONTHS 16:17.877 --> 16:18.378 AGO. 16:18.378 --> 16:20.480 >> WE GO BACK, IT'S SIX MONTHS 16:20.480 --> 16:21.781 LATER, WE'RE STILL TALKING TO 16:21.781 --> 16:23.183 PEOPLE ABOUT THESE THINGS, OVER 16:23.183 --> 16:24.484 AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. IT'S 16:24.484 --> 16:26.486 REALLY JUST A MATTER OF AS MUCH 16:26.486 --> 16:29.889 AS PERSPIRATION AS IT IS 16:29.889 --> 16:31.191 ANYTHING ELSE, JUST HAVING THE 16:31.191 --> 16:31.691 TIME. 16:31.691 --> 16:32.992 >> AT THE SAME TIME, PEOPLE ARE 16:32.992 --> 16:33.993 ON TO YOU NOW. 16:33.993 --> 16:36.596 FOUR YEARS AGO BEFORE "GAME 16:36.596 --> 16:38.398 CHANGE," THE KIND OF BOOK YOU 16:38.398 --> 16:39.699 WROTE ULTIMATELY HAD BEEN 16:39.699 --> 16:41.601 WRITTEN IN SOME WAYS BEFORE. 16:41.601 --> 16:43.003 THERE WAS THE CLASSIC NEWSWEEK 16:43.003 --> 16:44.504 "LET'S REPORT THE CAMPAIGN," BUT 16:44.504 --> 16:46.206 NOT ACTUALLY REPORT IT UNTIL 16:46.206 --> 16:47.207 AFTER THE FACT, THAT'S THE 16:47.207 --> 16:48.108 AGREEMENT, AND THEN THEY COME 16:48.108 --> 16:49.009 OUT WITH THIS THING. 16:49.009 --> 16:50.610 BUT "GAME CHANGE" WAS SORT OF 16:50.610 --> 16:52.912 THE VERY BEST AND THE MOST 16:52.912 --> 16:55.715 SUCCESSFUL OF THOSE. 16:55.715 --> 16:57.317 IS IT HARDER FOR YOU, PEOPLE WHO 16:57.317 --> 16:58.918 SAW THE LAST BOOK, WERE THERE 16:58.918 --> 17:00.620 PEOPLE MORE RELUCTANT TO TALK TO 17:00.620 --> 17:01.421 YOU? 17:01.421 --> 17:03.623 TALK ABOUT THIS TIME VERSUS LAST 17:03.623 --> 17:04.024 TIME. 17:04.024 --> 17:05.025 >> IT WAS ALMOST EXACTLY THE 17:05.025 --> 17:06.626 SAME IN TERMS OF HOW HARD IT 17:06.626 --> 17:07.127 WAS. 17:07.127 --> 17:07.727 >> YEAH. 17:07.727 --> 17:09.062 >> WIDESPREAD EXTENSIVE 17:09.062 --> 17:11.564 COOPERATION FROM PEOPLE IN BOTH 17:11.564 --> 17:12.065 PARTIES. 17:12.065 --> 17:12.465 >> : RIGHT. 17:12.465 --> 17:13.767 >> THE THINGS THAT CAUSED PEOPLE 17:13.767 --> 17:15.769 TO COOPERATE WITH US THE FIRST 17:15.769 --> 17:17.070 TIME WERE ALL STILL THE CASE, 17:17.070 --> 17:18.371 INCLUDING OR LONG-STANDING 17:18.371 --> 17:20.373 PROFESSIONAL RELATIONSHIPS WITH 17:20.373 --> 17:21.975 PEOPLE IN BOTH PARTIES. 17:21.975 --> 17:22.375 >> YEP. 17:22.375 --> 17:25.879 >> AND A RESPECT FOR THEIR TIME 17:25.879 --> 17:27.881 AND FOR WHAT THEY DID IN PUTTING 17:27.881 --> 17:29.282 THEIR HEART AND SOUL INTO 17:29.282 --> 17:30.784 WHATEVER CAMPAIGN THEY WORKED ON 17:30.784 --> 17:32.786 OR FOR THE CANDIDATES' CAMPAIGNS 17:32.786 --> 17:33.186 THEY RAN. 17:33.186 --> 17:34.988 WE HAD VERY FEW PEOPLE DECLINE 17:34.988 --> 17:35.989 TO PARTICIPATE. 17:35.989 --> 17:37.090 >> OF COURSE, THAT'S THE UP 17:37.090 --> 17:37.290 VERSION. 17:37.290 --> 17:39.192 THE MORE CYNICAL VERSION IS 17:39.192 --> 17:40.894 PEOPLE WANT THEIR VERSION OF THE 17:40.894 --> 17:41.494 STORY OUT THERE. 17:41.494 --> 17:42.796 SO IN SOME RESPECT, THEY'RE 17:42.796 --> 17:48.802 MOTIVATED TO TELL THEIR VERSION 17:48.802 --> 17:49.903 OF THE STORY. 17:49.903 --> 17:51.104 >> HONESTLY, THE QUESTIONS OF 17:51.104 --> 17:53.106 THE MOTIVATIONS OF WHY PEOPLE 17:53.106 --> 17:55.308 TALK TO US, IT'S ALMOST BESIDE 17:55.308 --> 17:57.110 THE POINT. 17:57.110 --> 17:59.112 IN JOURNALISM, WHATEVER 17:59.112 --> 18:01.314 JOURNALISM YOU DO, DAILY, 18:01.314 --> 18:04.017 MONTHLY, WEEKLY, BROADCAST, 18:04.017 --> 18:05.318 ELECTRONIC, WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS 18:05.318 --> 18:07.520 SORTING AMONG ALL KINDS OF 18:07.520 --> 18:09.155 MOTIVATIONS. 18:09.155 --> 18:10.256 THAT'S WHAT YOU DO. 18:10.256 --> 18:11.358 THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ABOUT. 18:11.358 --> 18:13.059 THAT'S WHAT OUR JOB IS. 18:13.059 --> 18:13.159 >> RIGHT. 18:13.159 --> 18:14.260 >> IT'S TRYING TO FIGURE OUT 18:14.260 --> 18:15.061 WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED, 18:15.061 --> 18:17.464 REGARDLESS OF WHAT PEOPLE'S 18:17.464 --> 18:18.665 MOTIVATIONS FOR TELLING YOU. 18:18.665 --> 18:20.066 IF THEY TELL YOU SOMETHING, IT'S 18:20.066 --> 18:22.168 TRUE; IF THEY TELL YOU SOMETHING 18:22.168 --> 18:23.570 IS FALSE, IT'S FALSE. 18:23.570 --> 18:24.771 AND OUR JOB IS TO FIGURE THAT 18:24.771 --> 18:25.171 OUT. 18:25.171 --> 18:26.973 >> THE VOLUME OF THE INTERVIEWS 18:26.973 --> 18:29.175 ARE OBVIOUSLY QUANTITATIVELY 18:29.175 --> 18:31.878 DIFFERENT THAN WHAT JOURNALISMS 18:31.878 --> 18:33.279 ARE ABLE TO DO THESE DAYS. 18:33.279 --> 18:36.182 IF YOU ARE INTERVIEWING SOMEBODY 18:36.182 --> 18:37.183 EIGHT TIMES, AFTER A SENSE 18:37.183 --> 18:39.486 YOU'RE GOING TO GET A SENSE IF 18:39.486 --> 18:42.989 WHETHER THEIR STORY MATCHES UP. 18:42.989 --> 18:44.991 THAT QUANTITY OF INTERVIEWS JUST 18:44.991 --> 18:45.892 MAKES THAT POSSIBLE. 18:45.892 --> 18:47.694 >> WHAT IS THE TAKE-AWAY FROM 18:47.694 --> 18:48.194 THIS BOOK? 18:48.194 --> 18:49.295 SO IF SOMEBODY WHO IS COMING TO 18:49.295 --> 18:50.897 THIS BOOK, THEY PAID SOME 18:50.897 --> 18:52.298 ATTENTION TO THE CAMPAIGN BUT 18:52.298 --> 18:55.301 THEY NOW WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT 18:55.301 --> 18:57.303 THE LESSON OF THIS CAMPAIGN IS 18:57.303 --> 18:58.605 THROUGH THE LENS OF YOUR BOOK. 18:58.605 --> 19:00.907 >> WELL, BOILING IT DOWN TO ONE 19:00.907 --> 19:02.809 IS HARD, IT'S KIND OF THE SAME 19:02.809 --> 19:04.711 LESSON AS LAST ONE, WHICH 19:04.711 --> 19:06.112 RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT IS AN 19:06.112 --> 19:08.014 EXTRAORDINARY HUMAN ENDEAVOR 19:08.014 --> 19:09.049 THAT REQUIRES A LOT OF SKILL AND 19:09.049 --> 19:10.850 A GOOD MEASURE OF LUCK. 19:10.850 --> 19:11.151 >> SAME. 19:11.151 --> 19:12.352 DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT? 19:12.352 --> 19:13.753 >> I WOULD SAY THE MAIN LESSON 19:13.753 --> 19:16.456 OF THIS BOOK -- THERE'S TWO. 19:16.456 --> 19:16.856 >> YES. 19:16.856 --> 19:18.758 >> ONE IS THAT -- LET THE RECORD 19:18.758 --> 19:21.361 SHOW I RESTRICTED MYSELF TO ONE. 19:21.361 --> 19:22.062 >> YOU DID. 19:22.062 --> 19:25.765 >> ONE IS THAT YOU REALLY OUGHT 19:25.765 --> 19:26.466 TO GET SLEEP. 19:26.466 --> 19:28.468 SLEEP IS CRUCIAL. 19:28.468 --> 19:30.170 ALMOST EVERY BIG MISTAKE -- I 19:30.170 --> 19:30.770 THINK IN LIFE. 19:30.770 --> 19:34.374 EVERY BIG MISTAKE MADE IN THE 19:34.374 --> 19:38.778 BOOK IS MADE BY A CANDIDATE IS 19:38.778 --> 19:40.080 BECAUSE THEY'RE OVERTIRED. 19:40.080 --> 19:41.981 THE OTHER IS GOLF. 19:41.981 --> 19:43.483 WE HAD NO IDEA, BUT THERE ARE 19:43.483 --> 19:46.386 APPARENTLY, LIKE, 13 PIVOTAL 19:46.386 --> 19:47.787 GOLF SCENES IN THE BOOK. 19:47.787 --> 19:49.389 WE DIDN'T KNOW WE WERE WRITING A 19:49.389 --> 19:51.091 BOOK ABOUT GOLF, BUT WE WERE. 19:51.091 --> 19:52.592 >> LET ME ASK YOU TO ROLL 19:52.592 --> 19:53.993 FORWARD, YOU HAVE LIVES AS 19:53.993 --> 19:56.596 EXPERT POLITICAL REPORTERS, 19:56.596 --> 19:58.698 COMMENTATORS, YOU PAY ATTENTION 19:58.698 --> 19:59.699 TO THIS STUFF ALL THE TIME. 19:59.699 --> 20:01.801 YOU DIDN'T STOP PAYING ATTENTION 20:01.801 --> 20:03.103 WHEN THE BOOK REPORTING WAS 20:03.103 --> 20:05.305 DONE. THE PRESIDENT IS IN A 20:05.305 --> 20:06.506 WORLD OF HURT RIGHT NOW. 20:06.506 --> 20:08.008 IF THE ELECTION HAD BEEN IN 20:08.008 --> 20:10.243 2013, AS OPPOSED TO 2012, YOU 20:10.243 --> 20:11.745 CAN ALWAYS PLAY THIS GAME, MUCH 20:11.745 --> 20:13.446 MORE CHALLENGING SITUATION FOR 20:13.446 --> 20:13.747 HIM? 20:13.747 --> 20:15.749 HE HAD NOT A VERY GOOD YEAR FOR 20:15.749 --> 20:17.751 A GUY WHO WON ELECTION A YEAR 20:17.751 --> 20:18.351 AGO. 20:18.351 --> 20:19.152 >> TAKE IT BACK TO THE BOOK, 20:19.152 --> 20:20.754 BECAUSE THAT'S MY ANALYSIS. HE 20:20.754 --> 20:22.055 RAN IN A WAY BASICALLY SAYING 20:22.055 --> 20:23.757 THE LAST YEAR OF HIS FIRST TERM 20:23.757 --> 20:25.258 WAS GOING TO BE DEVOTED NOT TO 20:25.258 --> 20:26.359 GETTING ANYTHING DONE, BECAUSE 20:26.359 --> 20:27.761 HE DIDN'T THINK HE COULD WITH 20:27.761 --> 20:30.363 THE REPUBLICANS, BUT TO TRY TO 20:30.363 --> 20:32.065 WIN THE ELECTION, GET A NEW 20:32.065 --> 20:34.567 MANDATE, AND GET THINGS THROUGH. 20:34.567 --> 20:36.670 HE DID IT ALIENATING THE 20:36.670 --> 20:38.171 BUSINESS COMMUNITY AND HE DID IT 20:38.171 --> 20:39.572 IN A WAY THAT DIDN'T LEAVE HIM 20:39.572 --> 20:40.974 THAT CLOSE TO DEMOCRATS IN 20:40.974 --> 20:41.274 CONGRESS. 20:41.274 --> 20:43.176 SO HE STARTS THE TERM IN A VERY 20:43.176 --> 20:43.877 WEAK POSITION. 20:43.877 --> 20:45.478 AND I'VE BEEN SAYING FOR A 20:45.478 --> 20:48.682 WHILE, IF HE CAN'T WRITE THE 20:48.682 --> 20:50.183 SHIP THIS YEAR, THE NOTION THAT 20:50.183 --> 20:51.985 REAL WIN BACK CONTROL OF THE 20:51.985 --> 20:52.986 HOUSE TO THE DEMOCRATS, I THINK, 20:52.986 --> 20:54.688 IS PRETTY LUDICROUS, AND THAT 20:54.688 --> 20:56.589 MEANS HE MAY HAVE A FOUR-YEAR 20:56.589 --> 20:58.892 TERM WHERE NOTHING GETS DONE. 20:58.892 --> 21:00.393 >> THAT'S THE DISCUSSION RIGHT 21:00.393 --> 21:02.896 NOW, THE HEALTHCARE.GOV 21:02.896 --> 21:04.397 SITUATION, AND WE'RE NOT OUT OF 21:04.397 --> 21:06.099 IT, BUT BASICALLY ROLLING OUT OF 21:06.099 --> 21:08.001 IT, HE MAY BE A LAME DUCK NOW 21:08.001 --> 21:09.836 AND UNABLE TO GET ANY BIG -- 21:09.836 --> 21:11.438 LOOK WHAT IT'S DOING TO HIS 21:11.438 --> 21:17.744 JUDICIAL NOMINEES AS WE SIT 21:17.744 --> 21:18.044 HERE. 21:18.044 --> 21:18.745 >> THE ONE THING THAT THE WHITE 21:18.745 --> 21:22.349 HOUSE HOLDS ON TO IS THE BEAT OF 21:22.349 --> 21:24.651 THE NEWS CYCLE. SIX WEEKS AGO 21:24.651 --> 21:25.552 REPUBLICANS WENT AFTER THE 21:25.552 --> 21:31.257 SHUTDOWN, AND IT WAS JUST OVER. 21:31.257 --> 21:33.360 THE HEALTHCARE THING HIT IN A 21:33.360 --> 21:34.060 BIG WAY. 21:34.060 --> 21:35.762 NOW OBAMA HAD DEEMED IT 21:35.762 --> 21:37.163 IMPOSSIBLE, THIS WILL HAVE A 21:37.163 --> 21:40.467 SHORTER HALF-LIFE THAN WE THINK, 21:40.467 --> 21:42.168 ESPECIALLY IF THEY CAN GET THE 21:42.168 --> 21:43.570 PROBLEM FIXED WITH HEALTHCARE. 21:43.570 --> 21:44.971 THE COMBINATION OF THE 21:44.971 --> 21:46.172 HEALTHCARE WEBSITE AND THE 21:46.172 --> 21:47.374 THINGS THAT ARE ATTACHED TO 21:47.374 --> 21:49.876 THAT, THE SYSTEMIC ISSUES AROUND 21:49.876 --> 21:51.978 THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM, IF THOSE 21:51.978 --> 21:53.680 THINGS GET FIXED IN A RELATIVELY 21:53.680 --> 21:55.782 TIMELY WAY, I THINK HE CAN STILL 21:55.782 --> 21:56.182 RECOVER. 21:56.182 --> 21:58.184 IF THEY CAN'T, HE'LL BE DONE, 21:58.184 --> 21:59.386 BECAUSE HIS CREDIBILITY NOW IS 21:59.386 --> 22:00.587 SO MUCH AT STAKE. 22:00.587 --> 22:02.889 >> I THINK DOING HEALTHCARE IN A 22:02.889 --> 22:04.591 PARTISAN WAY IS GOING TO GO DOWN 22:04.591 --> 22:07.494 IN HISTORY AS SOMEWHAT AN ERROR 22:07.494 --> 22:11.731 AND MAYBE A GIGANTIC ERROR. 22:11.731 --> 22:13.633 THEY SUGAR-COATED THAT THERE'S 22:13.633 --> 22:15.135 GOING TO BE LOSERS UNDER THIS 22:15.135 --> 22:15.735 REFORM. 22:15.735 --> 22:17.237 >> THERE HAS TO BE. 22:17.237 --> 22:18.838 >> AND AS MORE PEOPLE SEE THEIR 22:18.838 --> 22:20.340 HEALTHCARE CHANGE OR THEIR 22:20.340 --> 22:22.642 PREMIUMS GO UP OR THE OVERALL 22:22.642 --> 22:24.944 COST IN TERMS OF HOW THEIR 22:24.944 --> 22:26.246 HEALTHCARE SPENDING GOES, I 22:26.246 --> 22:29.149 THINK HE'S GOING TO FACE A 22:29.149 --> 22:32.452 NITPICKING BY HIS OPPONENTS THAT 22:32.452 --> 22:33.653 IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT 22:33.653 --> 22:35.055 TO MAKE THIS SEEM IN THE 22:35.055 --> 22:36.756 SHORT-TERM LIKE A WINNER OF THE 22:36.756 --> 22:37.157 COUNTRY. 22:37.157 --> 22:38.858 >> YOU GUYS WILL END HERE. 22:38.858 --> 22:41.261 DOES IT LEECH INTO 2016? SO 22:41.261 --> 22:42.962 HILARY CLINTON LEAVES THE 22:42.962 --> 22:44.364 ADMINISTRATION AT THE END OF THE 22:44.364 --> 22:45.965 FIRST TERM, SHE'S CHILLING, BUT 22:45.965 --> 22:47.167 OBVIOUSLY SHE'S LOOKING REALLY 22:47.167 --> 22:48.668 HARD BY ALL ACCOUNTS AT RUNNING 22:48.668 --> 22:50.570 IN THE NEXT ELECTION. AND UNTIL 22:50.570 --> 22:52.472 THESE PROBLEMS, THE ASSUMPTION 22:52.472 --> 22:54.174 WAS THAT, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER 22:54.174 --> 22:55.675 HAPPENED IN THE OBAMA 22:55.675 --> 22:59.379 ADMINISTRATION MIGHT NOT REALLY 22:59.379 --> 23:01.681 LAND AT HER FEET. 23:01.681 --> 23:03.383 DOES THAT CALCULATION, JOHN, NOW 23:03.383 --> 23:03.983 CHANGE? 23:03.983 --> 23:04.884 >> WELL, I THINK YES. 23:04.884 --> 23:05.385 CERTAINLY. 23:05.385 --> 23:06.586 I MEAN, SHE'S GOING TO BE 23:06.586 --> 23:08.388 RUNNING -- IF SHE RUNS, AND IF 23:08.388 --> 23:10.724 SHE BECOMES THE DEMOCRATIC 23:10.724 --> 23:12.125 NOMINEE, THE DIFFICULTY, 23:12.125 --> 23:15.528 HISTORIC DIFFICULTIES OF WINNING 23:15.528 --> 23:17.130 A THIRD CONSECUTIVE TERMS FOR 23:17.130 --> 23:18.732 THE IN-POWER PARTY ARE, YOU 23:18.732 --> 23:20.433 KNOW, HIGH BAR. 23:20.433 --> 23:20.633 >> RIGHT. 23:20.633 --> 23:21.835 >> AND RIGHT NOW, PUT ASIDE 23:21.835 --> 23:23.436 HEALTHCARE, RIGHT NOW, THE 23:23.436 --> 23:26.339 ECONOMY'S GOTTEN A LITTLE 23:26.339 --> 23:27.140 BITTER, BUT THE OVERALL EIGHT 23:27.140 --> 23:28.341 YEARS OF OBAMA MAY NOT BE A 23:28.341 --> 23:29.542 PERIOD THAT ANYONE WILL EVER 23:29.542 --> 23:31.144 LOOK BACK ON AS HAVING BEEN A 23:31.144 --> 23:32.245 PERIOD OF STRONG ECONOMIC 23:32.245 --> 23:33.546 GROWTH. UNEMPLOYMENT IS STILL 23:33.546 --> 23:34.948 ACTUALLY QUITE HIGH. 23:34.948 --> 23:39.052 AND HE -- SHE WAS A MEMBER OF 23:39.052 --> 23:39.953 HIS ADMINISTRATION. 23:39.953 --> 23:42.055 THERE'S STILL, SHE'S -- HER MAIN 23:42.055 --> 23:44.457 THING -- HER LAST JOB WOULD HAVE 23:44.457 --> 23:47.761 BEEN SECRETARY OF STATE FOR 23:47.761 --> 23:51.965 BARACK OBAMA, AND SHE'S GOING TO 23:51.965 --> 23:54.467 BE HAVING TO DEAL WITH THAT. 23:54.467 --> 23:54.868 >> AGREE? 23:54.868 --> 23:55.769 >> I DO. 23:55.769 --> 23:57.871 THE THIRD PARTY IS A TOUGH 23:57.871 --> 23:58.171 THING. 23:58.171 --> 23:59.372 ONE OF THE THINGS THE PRESIDENT 23:59.372 --> 24:01.775 HAS NEVER SOLVED IS WHAT IS THE 24:01.775 --> 24:03.176 OBAMA THEORY ABOUT THE CASE OF 24:03.176 --> 24:03.476 THE ECONOMY. 24:03.476 --> 24:05.979 AND THE ECONOMIC STATISTICS, 24:05.979 --> 24:09.015 UNLESS THERE'S SOME CHANGES, 24:09.015 --> 24:10.517 WILL NOT BE GOOD. 24:10.517 --> 24:12.218 >> FAIRLY LIMPING ALONG. 24:12.218 --> 24:14.020 >> I THINK PEOPLE WANT TO SEE A 24:14.020 --> 24:15.422 PRESIDENT IN THIS AGE WITH SO 24:15.422 --> 24:17.624 MUCH UNCERTAINTY IN ECONOMY, 24:17.624 --> 24:19.526 THAT'S HIS PLAN, THAT'S HIS 24:19.526 --> 24:21.127 THESIS ABOUT HOW THE AMERICAN 24:21.127 --> 24:21.928 ECONOMY SHOULD WORK. 24:21.928 --> 24:23.129 I DON'T THINK HE'S MADE THAT 24:23.129 --> 24:24.531 CASE IN A WAY THAT I COULD 24:24.531 --> 24:26.933 ENUNCIATE, I THINK MOST VOTERS 24:26.933 --> 24:27.834 WOULD FEEL THE SAME WAY. 24:27.834 --> 24:29.436 I THINK THAT'S A DANGER FOR HIM. 24:29.436 --> 24:31.338 AS WELL AS A DANGER FOR THE NEXT 24:31.338 --> 24:33.740 DEMOCRAT. BUT IF THEY'VE GOT A 24:33.740 --> 24:36.242 BETTER WAY TO ENUNCIATE IT, THEN 24:36.242 --> 24:37.644 MAYBE THEY HAVE A CHANCE. 24:37.644 --> 24:39.346 >> ONE BIG THING IN HER FAVOR 24:39.346 --> 24:40.947 WHICH THE REPUBLICAN HAVE DONE 24:40.947 --> 24:42.749 NOTHING, NOTHING, IN THE LAST 12 24:42.749 --> 24:44.351 MONTHS TO CURE THE FUNDAMENTAL 24:44.351 --> 24:47.053 STRUCTURAL PROBLEMS THEY HAVE 24:47.053 --> 24:51.458 WITH WINNING A NATIONAL 24:51.458 --> 24:53.460 ELECTION. 24:53.460 --> 24:53.860 >> YEAH. 24:53.860 --> 24:55.261 >> THEY'VE NOT MOVED THE BALL 24:55.261 --> 24:56.963 FORWARD 1 INCH SINCE ELECTION 24:56.963 --> 24:59.866 DAY OF 2012, AND IF THEY ARE AT 24:59.866 --> 25:01.768 STATUS QUO FROM ELECTION DAY 25:01.768 --> 25:05.972 2012, THEY WILL LOSE BIGGER THAN 25:05.972 --> 25:08.575 THEY LOST IN 2012, BECAUSE 25:08.575 --> 25:10.777 THEY'RE JUST STRUCTURALLY 25:10.777 --> 25:12.879 BEDEVILED RIGHT NOW. 25:12.879 --> 25:15.982 >> THE HUNT FOR PUFFER FISH, 25:15.982 --> 25:17.684 WHAT'S THE NAME OF THE BOOK 25:17.684 --> 25:18.785 GOING TO BE? 25:18.785 --> 25:23.490 >> AS YOU STAY IN THE TELEVISION 25:23.490 --> 25:24.891 WORLD, STAY TUNED. 25:24.891 --> 25:26.393 >> THANK YOU, BOTH, FOR COMING 25:26.393 --> 25:26.893 BACK. 25:26.893 --> 25:29.396 GREAT TO SEE YOU BOTH, 25:29.396 --> 25:31.197 PERSONALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY. 25:31.197 --> 25:33.600 JOHN HEILEMANN, JOHN HALPERIN, 25:33.600 --> 25:34.801 THANKS VERY MUCH. 25:34.801 --> 25:35.402 >> THANK YOU. 25:35.402 --> 25:36.403 >> THANK YOU. 25:36.403 --> 25:38.805 >> WE'D LOVE TO HAVE YOU JOIN US 25:38.805 --> 25:40.206 IN THE STUDIO. 25:40.206 --> 25:42.108 VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT 25:42.108 --> 25:45.011 KLRU.ORG/OVERHEARD TO FIND 25:45.011 --> 25:48.615 INVITATIONS TO INTERVIEWS, Q AND 25:48.615 --> 25:52.619 AS OF PAST GUESTS AND AN ARCHIVE 25:52.619 --> 25:56.523 OF PAST EPISODE. 25:56.523 --> 25:58.425 >> CHRIS CHRISTIE PURSUES THE 25:58.425 --> 26:01.728 GUY BRANDISHING AN ICE CREAM 26:01.728 --> 26:04.030 CONE HECKLING HIM, NOT 26:04.030 --> 26:04.931 NECESSARILY THE MOST 26:04.931 --> 26:12.272 PRESIDENTIAL ACT EVER COMMITTED. 26:12.272 --> 26:14.474 >> FUNDING FOR OVERHEARD WITH 26:14.474 --> 26:16.276 EVAN SMITH IS PROVIDED IN PART 26:16.276 --> 26:18.778 BY MFI FOUNDATION, IMPROVING THE 26:18.778 --> 26:19.779 QUALITY OF LIFE WITHIN OUR 26:19.779 --> 26:21.081 COMMUNITY, AND FROM THE TEXAS 26:21.081 --> 26:23.283 BOARD OF LEGAL SPECIALIZATION, 26:23.283 --> 26:25.285 BOARD CERTIFIED ATTORNEYS IN 26:25.285 --> 26:26.086 YOUR COMMUNITY. 26:26.086 --> 26:27.787 EXPERIENCED, RESPECTED AND 26:27.787 --> 26:28.888 TESTED. 26:28.888 --> 26:31.691 ALSO, BY HILCO PARTNERS, TEXAS 26:31.691 --> 26:33.393 GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS CONSULTANCY 26:33.393 --> 26:35.695 AND IT'S GLOBAL HEALTH CARE 26:35.695 --> 26:37.697 CONSULTING BUSINESS UNIT, HILCO 26:37.697 --> 26:40.200 HEALTH, AND BY THE ALICE KLEBERG 26:40.200 --> 26:42.702 REYNOLDS FOUNDATION AND VIEWERS 26:42.702 --> 26:43.403 LIKE YOU. 26:43.403 --> 27:09.462 THANK YOU. 27:09.462 --> 27:11.064 >> NEXT TIME ON OVERHEARD, THE 27:11.064 --> 27:13.867 COAUTHORS OF "DOUBLE DOWN" JOHN 27:13.867 --> 27:17.871 HEILEMANN AND MARK HALPERIN. 27:17.871 --> 27:18.772 >> IF THEY TELL YOU SOMETHING 27:18.772 --> 27:19.773 IT'S TRUE, IT'S TRUE. 27:19.773 --> 27:20.974 IF THEY TOLD YOU SOMETHING WAS 27:20.974 --> 27:21.975 FALSE, IT'S FALSE. 27:21.975 --> 27:23.376 THE THINGS THAT CAUSED PEOPLE TO 27:23.376 --> 27:24.978 COOPERATE WITH US THE FIRST TIME 27:24.978 --> 27:27.180 IS STILL THE CASE, INCLUDING OUR 27:27.180 --> 27:28.381 LONG-STANDING PROFESSIONAL 27:28.381 --> 27:30.884 RELATIONSHIPS IN BOTH PARTIES, 27:30.884 --> 27:32.085 NOT JUST IN THE OBAMA AND ROMNEY 27:32.085 --> 27:37.290 WORLD.