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[AUDIENCE MEMBER] Hi, I'm Brook.

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I'm a student at the university.

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My question for you is, 
how do you think the U.S.

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should approach 
problematic alliances?

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[SUSAN RICE] Like Turkey?

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Yeah.

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Well, we have a few now.

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That's one. Hungary is another.

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But before I answer 
the direct question

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I just want to say how 
important our alliances are.

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Our NATO alliance our 
Pacific allies, are a force

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multiplier for our leadership 
and strength in the world.

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And I think one of the 
most important things

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we ought to be doing is 
reinforcing those alliances

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and the importance of them 
rather than denigrating them.

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And meanwhile, uplifting 
our adversaries.

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So, but Turkey and some of

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our less democratic allies 
pose a particular problem.

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And the challenges

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you don't want to 
jettison those alliances.

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But you also can't

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overlook the bad behavior.

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So in Turkey's case, there's a 
lot of abuses of human rights

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it's obviously the 
intervention in Syria,

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it's getting in bed

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with Russians on their 
air defense systems.

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And we have that 
challenge to perhaps

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not the quite same degree 
in the Obama administration.

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And the way we tried 
to manage it was,

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as difficult as it was,

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a lot of presidential 
engagement with Erdon.

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And President Obama spent 
a lot of time in person

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and on the phone with him, 
not because they were besties,

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but because we knew that, 
that was arguably the best way

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to prevent some of 
the worst excesses.

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[EVAN SMITH] Is President 
Erdon persuadable,

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in your experience?

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[RICE] Yes. Then.

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And persuadable is maybe 
not the right term.

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You could, you could 
shave the rough edges.

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[SMITH] Okay.

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[RICE] You could mitigate--

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[SMITH] Yeah.

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[RICE] --the worst outcomes, 
and that's frankly in part

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plus our deterrent effect, 
how we made it impossible

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for many years for Turkey 
to invade northern Syria.

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[SMITH] Yeah.

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[RICE] It's not like 
they didn't want to.

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It's that they knew 
they'd better not--

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[SMITH] You held them off.

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[RICE] --mess with the U.S.

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[SMITH] Right.

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[RICE] Or rupture 
that relationship.

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President Trump sent a 
very different signal.

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And we've seen what happens. 
[SMITH] Thank you so much for--

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[RICE] Thank you.

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[SMITH] Commissioner.

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[AUDIENCE MEMBER] 
Welcome back to Austin!

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And thank you for continuing 
to come to Texas Tribune Fest!

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[RICE] Thank you!

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[AUDIENCE MEMBER] 
That is always a joy--

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[SMITH] This is a hashtag ad,

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I didn't actually tell 
her to do that, but okay.

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[AUDIENCE MEMBER] But 
my question is this,

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you have served 
at a cabinet level

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and I'm just wondering, 
aside from a president,

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who ought to be taking the lead

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on climate change policies?

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'Cause so many 
different divisions

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and offices can 
claim a piece of it,

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but somebody needs 
to take the lead.

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Who do you think that out to be?

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[RICE] Well, it depends. Right?

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Internationally, it should 
be the State Department,

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and the Secretary of State. 
And John Kerry, you know,

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took that role very seriously, 
and was passionate about it.

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And it helped lead to the 
Paris Climate Agreement.

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The diplomacy was run

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out of State and 
the White House.

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President Obama was very much 
engaged. We were all engaged.

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But when it comes 
to domestic side,

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then you need EPA, 
you need Interior,

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you need a variety 
of agencies involved.

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But in the Obama administration, 
the EPA administrator

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was really the point person, 
and very effective at it.

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We had two and they 
were both excellent.

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[SMITH] Yup.

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[RICE] So, but what 
you really need

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is a demand signal 
from the president.

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To all elements--

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[SMITH] Sets the tone 
at the top, Right, yeah.

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[RICE] That this is a priority.

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And you have to 
take it seriously.

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[SMITH] And the inverse 
of that would be saying

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we're going to withdraw 
from the Paris Accords.

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[RICE] Sorta 
something like that.

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[SMITH] Yeah.

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(audience laughter)

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[AUDIENCE MEMBER] Thank you.

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[SMITH] That's a signal of 
sort from the top, as well.

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[RICE] And the energy 
department you know

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we don't care about, you know, 
renewables, only oil and gas.

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[SMITH] Ma'am.

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[RICE] Coal. Yes.

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[AUDIENCE MEMBER] You've 
been an influential advocate

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for the people of Sudan. 
And if I recall correctly,

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you were present at the South 
Sudanese independence day.

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[RICE] I was.

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[AUDIENCE MEMBER] I'm 
wondering now with hindsight

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what your views are,

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on South Sudan as it tries 
to emerge from this conflict,

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and what the Obama 
administration

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might have done differently. 
And I'd also be interested

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in your views on Sudan

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and its future following 
this year's ouster.

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[SMITH] This is the kind 
of question you get.

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[RICE] That's good!

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[SMITH] Right, you like that?

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[RICE] That's good. I write 
actually a lot about Sudan

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and South Sudan in "Tough Love."

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Because it is a sort of 
through line going back

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to my time working on Africa,

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as well as in the 
Obama administration.

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I'm very saddened 
and disappointed

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by what's evolved in South 
Sudan since independence.

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It, for those of you who 
don't follow this carefully,

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you know, it's basically 
a civil conflict.

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And very corrupt, 
venal leadership,

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in the government

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and very corrupt 
venal leadership

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in the opposition 
fighting the government.

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And what has been a real

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moment of promise in 
2011 has been squandered.

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And the people of South 
Sudan have suffered so long,

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are really as bad or worse off 
then they were even before.

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So it's a huge tragedy 
and I think it was right

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for the people of South 
Sudan to have the opportunity

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to vote on a referendum 
for independence.

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They voted 98.6% 
for independence.

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But then they got stuck with 
some really bad leaders,

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and they hadn't been 
able to change that.

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And I think U.S. policy, 
and I do write rather

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critically of our 
approach, not just there

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but where I think 
we've made mistakes,

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and where we've gotten it 
right across the board.

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But in South Sudan, 
and I take a fair share

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of responsibility 
for this, I think

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we were late to push for 
broad-based sanctions

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against the government 
of South Sudan,

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and the leadership 
of South Sudan.

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And there are various 
reasons for that

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which I get into which I 
won't bore everybody with

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but I would have, in retrospect, 
think we would have perhaps

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been able to use our 
influence more effectively

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had we resorted to those 
tougher measures sooner.

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But, we've now done it and 
it's still hasn't worked.

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So, it's really hard to tell.

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With retrospect to Sudan itself,

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this is the government 
in Khartoum.

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You know, the ouster of Bashir 
and the change of government

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driven by real popular sentiment 
was an amazing achievement.

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[AUDIENCE MEMBER] Extraordinary.

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[RICE] And again, what comes 
of it is still to be seen.

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We're in this 
transitional phase.

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But I think the people of 
Sudan deserve enormous credit.

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For, in effect, you 
know bringing about

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a change through 
largely peaceful means.

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They, some of the 
civilian protestors 
were certainly harmed.

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But they did not use violence 
to achieve their objective.

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And there is now hope.

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[AUDIENCE MEMBER] Thank you.

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[RICE] Thank you for 
asking. I appreciate that.

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[SMITH] Steve, your time?

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Do we have time for one more?

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I'm very sorry if we don't 
get to your question. Sir.

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[AUDIENCE MEMBER] Oh, 
is this the last one?

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[RICE] Apparently.

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[SMITH] You get the last one.

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[AUDIENCE MEMBER] Ambassador 
Rice, are you concerned

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that there's been an 
exodus of professional

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foreign service officers 
from the State Department?

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[RICE] Deeply.

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[SMITH] It's an easy 
short answer, right?

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[RICE] Deeply, deeply concerned!

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and--

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[SMITH] Can you rebuild that?

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[RICE] With a lot of time.

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And a lot of effort.

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I mean, we've had, 
so we've lost people

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at the very senior levels 
who have been told,

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in effect, that 
they're not welcome.

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The most experienced. 
We have deficits now

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in terms of recruitment. 
And now we have

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the president of 
the United States,

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very directly and personally, 
attacking and denigrating

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foreign service officers. 
And the Secretary of State--

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[SMITH] Declining to 
stand up for this.

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[RICE] Refusing, to 
stand up for them.

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[SMITH] Right.

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[RICE] And, on the one hand, 
that's devastating for morale,

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and it's going to accelerate, 
I fear, the exodus.

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On the other hand, I 
think what I'm hearing

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from my former colleagues is 
they are foreign service proud.

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There's hashtag F-S Proud.

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Because what they have 
been able to show the world

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and the country is how 
dedicated and professional

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and you know faithful 
to their oath

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under the constitution 
they actually are.

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[SMITH] If there's 
a silver lining

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over the last couple weeks

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it's that Marie Yovanovitch 
and Bill Taylor,

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and these other folks 
from the State Department

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defying directives not to 
do this have demonstrated

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what public service 
looks like, right?

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[RICE] I think, absolutely.

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I don't think the American 
people understand how smart

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and committed and, you know,

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under the radar 
screen these people

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are trying to fly everyday 
doing our business for us.

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[SMITH] Right.

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[RICE] And they don't get the

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praise and support 
and the respect,

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that our service 
men and women do.

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But they are putting themselves 
in harms way everyday.

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As we just discussed 
as when you look at

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you know, our losses in 
Libia or in East Africa.

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These people are putting 
their lives on the line.

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[SMITH] Literally on the 
line for us, that's right.

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[RICE] And they do great work.

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[SMITH] Ambassador, thank you 
so much, for your time today!

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[RICE] Thank you.

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[SMITH] Thank you all!

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We'll see you again.

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(applause)