WEBVTT 00:00.200 --> 00:03.437 >>> FUNDING FOR "OVERHEAD" WITH EVAN SMITH IS PROVIDED IN PART 00:03.437 --> 00:04.438 BY M.F.I. 00:04.438 --> 00:08.041 FOUNDATION, IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE WITHIN OUR 00:08.041 --> 00:09.576 COMMUNITY. 00:09.576 --> 00:12.412 AND FROM THE TEXAS BOARD OF LEGAL SPECIALIZATION, 00:12.412 --> 00:15.048 BOARD CERTIFIED ATTORNEYS IN YOUR COMMUNITY. 00:15.048 --> 00:18.519 EXPERIENCED, RESPECTED, AND TESTED. 00:18.519 --> 00:22.856 ALSO BY HILLCO PARTNERS, A TEXAS GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS CONSULTANCY. 00:22.856 --> 00:26.727 AND BY THE ALICE KLEBERG REYNOLDS FOUNDATION. 00:26.727 --> 00:28.762 AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU. 00:28.762 --> 00:30.664 THANK YOU. 00:30.664 --> 00:31.665 >> I'M EVAN SMITH. 00:31.665 --> 00:34.434 SHE'S A ROCK 'N' ROLL ICON WHO SPENT 30 YEARS AS A BASSIST, 00:34.434 --> 00:37.337 GUITARIST, AND VOCALIST IN THE HALL OF FAME-WORTHY ALTERNATIVE 00:37.337 --> 00:38.872 BAND, SONIC YOUTH. 00:38.872 --> 00:42.042 HER MEMOIR, "GIRL IN A BAND," HAS JUST BEEN PUBLISHED. 00:42.042 --> 00:44.611 SHE'S KIM GORDON, THIS IS "OVERHEARD." 00:44.611 --> 00:45.612 [APPLAUSE]. 00:45.612 --> 00:47.748 >> ACTUALLY, THERE ARE NOT TWO SIDES TO EVERY ISSUE. 00:47.748 --> 00:49.750 >> SO I GUESS WE CAN'T FIRE HIM NOW. 00:49.750 --> 00:51.752 >> I GUESS WE CAN'T FIRE HIM NOW. 00:51.752 --> 00:54.454 THE NIGHT THAT I WIN THE EMMY. 00:54.454 --> 00:58.292 >> BEING ON THE SUPREME COURT WAS AN IMPROBABLE DREAM. 00:58.292 --> 01:00.360 >> IT'S HARD WORK AND IT'S CONTROVERSIAL. 01:00.360 --> 01:02.362 >> WITHOUT INFORMATION, THERE IS NO FREEDOM. 01:02.362 --> 01:04.598 AND IT'S JOURNALISTS WHO PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION. 01:04.598 --> 01:11.772 >> WINDOW ROLLS DOWN AND THIS GUY SAYS, HEY, HE GOES TO 11:00. 01:11.772 --> 01:14.007 [LAUGHTER]. 01:16.343 --> 01:17.344 >> KIM GORDON, WELCOME. 01:17.344 --> 01:18.345 >> THANK YOU. 01:18.345 --> 01:20.314 >> CONGRATULATIONS ON THIS BOOK. 01:20.314 --> 01:22.316 I'M SURE IT'S GOING TO BE A BIG HIT. 01:22.316 --> 01:24.017 IT MUST HAVE BEEN FUN TO WRITE. 01:24.017 --> 01:25.085 >> PARTS OF IT WERE FUN. 01:25.085 --> 01:26.086 >> YEAH. 01:26.086 --> 01:27.321 >> PARTS WERE BORING. 01:27.321 --> 01:28.322 >> BORING? 01:28.322 --> 01:30.324 PARTS OF IT WERE BORING TO WRITE? 01:30.324 --> 01:31.325 >> YEAH. 01:31.325 --> 01:33.327 >> TO GO BACK THROUGH ALL THOSE YEARS? 01:33.327 --> 01:35.295 >> WELL, THERE'S JUST THIS CERTAIN NUTS AND BOLTS OF 01:35.295 --> 01:36.296 WRITING --. 01:36.296 --> 01:37.297 >> RIGHT. 01:37.297 --> 01:39.299 >> WHERE YOU JUST HAVE TO EXPLAIN THINGS OR TRY AND GET A 01:39.299 --> 01:43.737 LOT OF INFORMATION IN THAT IT'S NOT PARTICULARLY -- YOU KNOW, 01:43.737 --> 01:44.838 IT'S CHALLENGING. 01:44.838 --> 01:45.839 >> RIGHT. 01:45.839 --> 01:48.742 DID YOU WRITE IT FOR YOURSELF OR DID YOU WRITE IT FOR US? 01:48.742 --> 01:50.510 >> BOTH. 01:50.510 --> 01:51.611 >> BOTH? 01:51.611 --> 01:53.213 YEAH. 01:53.213 --> 01:58.986 >> YEAH, I MEAN, I GUESS I HAD IN MIND THE KIND OF BOOK I'D 01:58.986 --> 02:00.187 WANT TO READ. 02:00.187 --> 02:01.188 >> RIGHT. 02:01.188 --> 02:03.457 SO IN THAT RESPECT, YOU WROTE IT FOR YOU. 02:03.457 --> 02:05.792 BUT I ALSO WONDER IF IT FELT TO YOU LIKE YOU HAD THINGS YOU 02:05.792 --> 02:08.762 NEEDED TO GET OFF YOUR CHEST OR THINGS YOU NEEDED TO GET OUT. 02:08.762 --> 02:11.098 I DON'T KNOW YOU, BUT I FEEL LIKE HAVING WATCHED YOU PERFORM 02:11.098 --> 02:13.100 ALL THESE YEARS AND UNDERSTANDING A LITTLE BIT FROM 02:13.100 --> 02:16.136 A DISTANCE WHO YOU ARE, I FEEL LIKE I KNOW YOU ENOUGH TO THINK 02:16.136 --> 02:20.007 THAT YOU'RE NOT THE KIND OF PERSON WHO IS EAGER TO TELL ALL 02:20.007 --> 02:22.976 OR EAGER TO OPEN UP THAT CHEST AND GET -- YOU KNOW, 02:22.976 --> 02:24.978 TAKE A BUNCH OF STUFF OUT AND SHOW IT TO US. 02:24.978 --> 02:25.979 >> YEAH. 02:25.979 --> 02:27.981 >> SO THAT WAS AN INTERESTING QUESTION I HAD FOR YOU. 02:27.981 --> 02:29.750 WHAT MADE YOU DO THIS? 02:29.750 --> 02:32.152 >> I HAD A LOT OF TIME ON MY HANDS. 02:32.152 --> 02:33.153 [LAUGHTER]. 02:33.153 --> 02:34.154 >> OH, IS THAT RIGHT? 02:34.154 --> 02:35.155 YEAH. 02:35.155 --> 02:37.124 >> NO, I KNOW PEOPLE WERE STARTING TO INQUIRE, 02:37.124 --> 02:39.126 DIFFERENT PUBLISHERS OR EDITORS --. 02:39.126 --> 02:40.127 >> YEAH. 02:40.127 --> 02:45.732 >> AND I -- YOU KNOW, WRITING FOR ME IS THE WAY I FIGURE OUT 02:45.732 --> 02:47.734 WHAT I'M THINKING OR FEELING ABOUT SOMETHING. 02:47.734 --> 02:50.670 >> AND YOU HAVE DONE WRITING IN THE PAST, ESSAYS AND --. 02:50.670 --> 02:52.506 >> YEAH, MORE -- YEAH. 02:52.506 --> 02:54.608 ESSAYS AND SHORT PIECES. 02:54.608 --> 02:56.376 SOME THINGS ABOUT L.A. 02:56.376 --> 02:57.344 >> RIGHT. 02:57.344 --> 02:59.046 >> SO, I DON'T KNOW. 02:59.046 --> 03:03.583 IT JUST SEEMED LIKE IT WAS A GOOD TIME. 03:03.583 --> 03:07.921 IF I WAS GOING TO WRITE A MEMOIR THAT MAYBE I SHOULD DO IT NOW. 03:07.921 --> 03:08.922 >> RIGHT. 03:08.922 --> 03:10.924 IF YOU'RE GOING TO UNBURDEN YOURSELF, THIS IS THE TIME. 03:10.924 --> 03:13.193 >> YEAH, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHEN SOMETHING TRAUMATIC HAPPENS IN 03:13.193 --> 03:17.364 YOUR LIFE, THEN IT DOES SET YOU UP THINKING ABOUT YOUR WHOLE 03:17.364 --> 03:22.102 LIFE, LIKE HOW DID I GET HERE AND WHO AM I. 03:22.102 --> 03:25.405 >> SO IF THE MARRIAGE HADN'T ENDED AND IF THE BAND HADN'T 03:25.405 --> 03:27.407 ENDED, WE MIGHT NOT HAVE HAD THE BOOK? 03:27.407 --> 03:28.408 >> NO. 03:28.408 --> 03:29.409 >> YEAH. 03:29.409 --> 03:30.410 >> PROBABLY NOT. 03:30.410 --> 03:32.412 >> SO THIS IS THE -- UNFORTUNATELY, 03:32.412 --> 03:34.414 WE HAD TO HAVE THAT TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN, 03:34.414 --> 03:36.416 BUT I'M ACTUALLY GLAD THAT WE ENDED UP WITH THIS IN ANY CASE. 03:36.416 --> 03:38.752 YOUR AFFECT IN THIS BOOK IS FLAT. 03:38.752 --> 03:40.921 THE STORIES ARE TOLD, NOT WITHOUT EMOTION, 03:40.921 --> 03:42.923 BUT THEY'RE TOLD KIND OF MATTER-OF-FACTLY, 03:42.923 --> 03:46.059 AS IF YOU'RE JUST SORT OF GOING BACK THROUGH AND CATALOGING AND 03:46.059 --> 03:48.061 TELLING US THE CHRONOLOGY OF THINGS. 03:48.061 --> 03:50.197 DID THE TONE OF THE BOOK COME TO YOU NATURALLY? 03:50.197 --> 03:52.199 DID YOU WORK OR THINK CAREFULLY ABOUT THIS? 03:52.199 --> 03:55.302 BECAUSE I THINK IT'S UNLIKE A LOT OF MEMOIRS IN THAT IT'S JUST 03:55.302 --> 03:56.503 PRESENTED AS IS. 03:56.503 --> 04:00.207 IT'S NOT PRESENTED WITH ANY FANFARE OR ANY HAVING TO PUFF UP 04:00.207 --> 04:02.309 THE LANGUAGE OR THE STORYTELLING TO MAKE IT INTERESTING. 04:02.309 --> 04:04.311 IT'S JUST HERE'S THE STORY, THAT'S IT. 04:04.311 --> 04:05.312 >> RIGHT. 04:05.312 --> 04:08.048 WELL, I -- I'M KIND OF A MINIMALIST, I GUESS. 04:08.048 --> 04:09.049 >> YEAH. 04:09.049 --> 04:14.121 >> AND, LIKE, YOU KNOW, HAVE A LOT OF SUBTEXT IN THINGS. 04:14.121 --> 04:18.358 BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO ROMANTICIZE IT. 04:18.358 --> 04:20.360 I MEAN, YOU KNOW, SOME THINGS ARE --. 04:20.360 --> 04:22.863 >> WELL, IT'S DEFINITELY NOT ROMANTICIZED, THAT'S FOR SURE. 04:22.863 --> 04:25.799 >> AND, I DON'T KNOW, I LIKE TO BE SUCCINCT. 04:25.799 --> 04:29.436 I'M NOT, LIKE, A SUPER WORDSMITH OR ANYTHING. 04:29.436 --> 04:36.176 SO I KIND OF FELT LIKE I WENT MORE FOR PUNCH AND SUCCINCTNESS 04:36.176 --> 04:39.579 AND KIND OF A DRAMA IN THE SPACE AROUND THE WORDS. 04:39.579 --> 04:40.580 >> RIGHT. 04:40.580 --> 04:42.582 WELL, THE ASSUMPTION THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WRITE MEMOIRS 04:42.582 --> 04:44.985 MAKE IS THAT YOU WANT TO HEAR FROM THEM AND AGAIN AND AGAIN 04:44.985 --> 04:45.986 AND MORE AND MORE. 04:45.986 --> 04:47.988 AND THE BOOKS CAN BE OVERWHELMING. 04:47.988 --> 04:49.990 BUT THE THING ABOUT THIS IS IT'S KIND OF SPARE, 04:49.990 --> 04:52.859 AND IN THAT RESPECT, IT'S A MUCH EASIER BOOK TO DIGEST. 04:52.859 --> 04:55.996 >> YEAH, WELL I FOUND IN MOST MEMOIRS I'VE READ, 04:55.996 --> 04:59.065 EVEN THE ONES I LIKED, I PRETTY MUCH LOSE IT, YOU KNOW, 04:59.065 --> 05:01.067 TWO-THIRDS OF THE WAY THROUGH OR SOMETHING. 05:01.067 --> 05:02.068 >> RIGHT. 05:02.068 --> 05:04.070 >> LIKE THE KEITH RICHARDS BOOK OR --. 05:04.070 --> 05:05.071 >> RIGHT. 05:05.071 --> 05:06.072 >> YOU KNOW, MANY. 05:06.072 --> 05:08.074 >> NOT TO PICK ON ANYBODY, PARTICULARLY. 05:08.074 --> 05:09.075 >> NO, YEAH. 05:09.075 --> 05:11.044 >> BUT PICK ON HIM, THAT'S FINE. 05:11.044 --> 05:12.045 YEAH. 05:12.045 --> 05:13.046 >> I LOVE KEITH. 05:13.046 --> 05:15.982 BUT, NO, IT WAS -- SO I WAS REALLY AWARE OF I DIDN'T WANT IT 05:15.982 --> 05:16.983 TO BE BORING. 05:16.983 --> 05:17.984 >> RIGHT. 05:17.984 --> 05:20.554 NOW, "GIRL IN A BAND," WE'LL COME TO LATER THE ORIGIN OF THAT 05:20.554 --> 05:21.555 PHRASE. 05:21.555 --> 05:26.293 IT'S PART OF A LYRIC OF A SONG FROM AN ALBUM OF SONIC YOUTH'S, 05:26.293 --> 05:28.695 BUT IT'S "GIRL IN A BAND." IT'S NOT "GIRL IN A MARRIAGE, 05:28.695 --> 05:31.064 " IT'S NOT "GIRL IN A GALLERY," IT'S "GIRL IN A BAND." THE 05:31.064 --> 05:35.435 FOCUS, AT LEAST WE ARE TO TAKE FROM THE TITLE DELIBERATELY 05:35.435 --> 05:39.472 CHOSEN, IS THAT IT'S ON YOUR CAREER IN MUSIC. 05:39.472 --> 05:41.474 THE OTHER STUFF IS ESSENTIALLY THE FRAME AROUND IT, 05:41.474 --> 05:42.576 IS THAT RIGHT? 05:42.576 --> 05:48.014 >> WELL, I MEAN, IT'S REALLY -- THE TITLE WAS SORT OF MEANT 05:48.014 --> 05:49.015 IRONICALLY. 05:49.015 --> 05:53.687 IN A WAY, ONE, IT'S THE QUESTION THAT EVERY FEMALE MUSICIAN HATES 05:53.687 --> 05:56.022 BEING ASKED AND GETS TIRED OF HEARING. 05:56.022 --> 05:59.993 AND THEN ALSO JUST THAT I HAVE DONE A LOT OF OTHER THINGS AND I 05:59.993 --> 06:02.062 DON'T ACTUALLY THINK OF MYSELF AS A MUSICIAN. 06:02.062 --> 06:03.263 >> YOU NO LONGER DO? 06:03.263 --> 06:04.364 >> WELL, I NEVER REALLY DID. 06:04.364 --> 06:05.365 [LAUGHTER]. 06:05.365 --> 06:06.366 >> THAT'S INTERESTING. 06:06.366 --> 06:08.335 SO YOU SPENT ALL THOSE YEARS, THE MOST PUBLIC-FACING PART OF 06:08.335 --> 06:12.806 YOUR CAREER WAS IN THIS BAND, AND DURING THAT TIME IT DIDN'T 06:12.806 --> 06:18.044 SEEM TO YOU OR FEEL TO YOU THAT WE THOUGHT OF YOU THAT WAY OR 06:18.044 --> 06:20.513 SHOULD THINK OF YOU THAT WAY? 06:20.513 --> 06:24.017 >> WELL, IT'S NOT HOW I PERSONALLY IDENTIFY WITH MUSIC. 06:24.017 --> 06:28.388 I MEAN, I DON'T THINK, LIKE, PEOPLE IN PUNK ROCK BANDS 06:28.388 --> 06:30.390 THOUGHT OF THEMSELVES AS MUSICIANS. 06:30.390 --> 06:33.126 I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE THEY DID IN A I'M A MUSICIAN --. 06:33.126 --> 06:34.127 >> IN A LITERAL SENSE. 06:34.127 --> 06:35.128 >> -- COME HOME WITH ME WAY. 06:35.128 --> 06:36.129 [LAUGHTER]. 06:36.129 --> 06:37.130 >> OH, OH. 06:37.130 --> 06:39.532 THAT WENT SOMEPLACE I DIDN'T EXPECT IT TO GO. 06:39.532 --> 06:41.001 OKAY. 06:41.001 --> 06:42.002 ALL RIGHT. 06:42.002 --> 06:43.003 [LAUGHTER]. 06:43.003 --> 06:47.741 >> NO, BUT I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I THINK PUNK ROCK, 06:47.741 --> 06:50.377 WHEN PUNK ROCK HAPPENED, A LOT OF PEOPLE GOT INVOLVED WITH 06:50.377 --> 06:51.378 PLAYING MUSIC. 06:51.378 --> 06:52.379 >> YEAH. 06:52.379 --> 06:55.315 >> I MEAN, I THINK VIV ALBERTINE TALKS ABOUT THIS IN HER BOOK, 06:55.315 --> 06:56.950 ALTHOUGH I HAVEN'T READ IT. 06:56.950 --> 06:59.953 BUT, YOU KNOW, ABOUT SUDDENLY YOU ARE, LIKE, 06:59.953 --> 07:03.623 KIND OF THROWN INTO THIS SITUATION. 07:03.623 --> 07:04.924 YOU KNOW, YOU WERE DRAWN IN --. 07:04.924 --> 07:05.925 >> RIGHT. 07:05.925 --> 07:09.095 >> -- TO THIS, LIKE, EXCITING TIME AND WHAT WAS HAPPENING. 07:09.095 --> 07:13.400 AND A LOT OF PEOPLE BECAME INVOLVED WITH BANDS THAT -- AND 07:13.400 --> 07:14.534 IT TOOK THEM SOMEWHERE AND --. 07:14.534 --> 07:15.535 >> YEAH. 07:15.535 --> 07:17.504 >> THEY DIDN'T START OUT AS MUSICIANS. 07:17.504 --> 07:18.505 >> DIDN'T THINK OF THAT. 07:18.505 --> 07:20.507 AND THE REALITY IS, YOU STARTED OUT MORE IN ART. 07:20.507 --> 07:21.508 >> YES, EXACTLY. 07:21.508 --> 07:22.509 >> RIGHT? 07:22.509 --> 07:24.511 YOU WENT TO ART SCHOOL AND YOU'RE PROBABLY BETTER DEFINED 07:24.511 --> 07:26.513 THESE DAYS, MAYBE THEN, MAYBE FOREVER, 07:26.513 --> 07:28.515 AS AN ARTIST MORE THAN AS A MUSICIAN, RIGHT? 07:28.515 --> 07:29.516 >> YEAH. 07:29.516 --> 07:31.518 I MEAN, I REALIZE PEOPLE KNOW ME HAS A MUSICIAN IN SONIC YOUTH 07:31.518 --> 07:35.355 AND DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE OTHER PART OF MY PRACTICE, 07:35.355 --> 07:36.790 OUR PRACTICE. 07:36.790 --> 07:40.860 BUT, I DON'T KNOW, I JUST ALWAYS, I GUESS, 07:40.860 --> 07:43.930 FELT A BIT OF AN OUTSIDER IN THE MUSIC SCENE. 07:43.930 --> 07:44.931 >> YEAH. 07:44.931 --> 07:46.366 >> AS KIND OF A VOYEUR OR --. 07:46.366 --> 07:48.435 >> WELL, IT WAS SUCCESSFUL IF THAT WAS WHAT WORKED FOR YOU, 07:48.435 --> 07:49.436 RIGHT? 07:49.436 --> 07:50.437 THAT'S GOOD. 07:50.437 --> 07:52.405 THE THING ABOUT THIS BOOK THAT I REALLY APPRECIATE, AGAIN, 07:52.405 --> 07:54.574 TO THE POINT THAT IT'S ABOUT A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS. 07:54.574 --> 07:58.378 THE SENSE OF PLACE IN THIS BOOK IN AT LEAST TWO DISTINCT WAYS 07:58.378 --> 08:00.747 REALLY WORKED SO WELL FOR ME AS A READER. 08:00.747 --> 08:01.881 THE FIRST WAS L.A., THE L.A. 08:01.881 --> 08:02.882 OF YOUR UPBRINGING. 08:02.882 --> 08:04.884 THE FAMILY STUFF WAS FASCINATING. 08:04.884 --> 08:08.788 GREAT GRANDMOTHER WHO SOLD PATTERNS UP AND DOWN THE COAST, 08:08.788 --> 08:09.789 RIGHT? 08:09.789 --> 08:12.525 YOUR GRANDMOTHER, YOUR PARENTS, YOUR DAD AT UCLA. 08:12.525 --> 08:14.194 YOU AT THE UCLA LAB SCHOOL. 08:14.194 --> 08:16.262 THE STUFF WITH YOUR BROTHER, WHICH IS SO MOVING AND 08:16.262 --> 08:18.965 INTERESTING AND ULTIMATELY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTANDING YOUR 08:18.965 --> 08:19.966 STORY. 08:19.966 --> 08:20.967 BUT L.A. 08:20.967 --> 08:22.969 AS A CHARACTER IN THIS BOOK IS REALLY GREAT. 08:22.969 --> 08:24.971 CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF L.A. 08:24.971 --> 08:25.972 TO YOU? 08:25.972 --> 08:29.309 >> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I TRIED TO THINK OF WAYS NOT TO WRITE 08:29.309 --> 08:33.346 ABOUT MYSELF OR -- YEAH, I WANTED IT TO BE A PORTRAIT OF 08:33.346 --> 08:34.347 L.A. 08:34.347 --> 08:37.016 AT A CERTAIN TIME, THE '60S AND '70s. 08:37.016 --> 08:38.651 AND, I DON'T KNOW. 08:38.651 --> 08:42.889 I JUST THINK THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN'T GET OFF 08:42.889 --> 08:47.594 THE INTERNET OR YOU CAN'T GET A SENSE OF THE CONTEXT OR -- YOU 08:47.594 --> 08:50.864 KNOW, I THINK THAT'S WHY MEMOIRS AND BOOKS ARE SO IMPORTANT. 08:53.133 --> 08:55.335 BUT IT'S SUCH A STRONG FEELING ABOUT L.A. 08:55.335 --> 08:59.039 DURING THAT TIME THAT I JUST CARRY IT AROUND STILL. 08:59.039 --> 09:00.040 >> RIGHT. 09:00.040 --> 09:03.176 AND IT WAS CONSEQUENTIAL IN TERMS OF HOW IT AND HOW WHAT YOU 09:03.176 --> 09:06.146 SAW THERE AND DID THERE INFLUENCED YOUR ART AND YOUR 09:06.146 --> 09:07.380 MUSIC LATER, RIGHT? 09:07.380 --> 09:10.116 IT WAS -- IT WASN'T JUST IT HAPPENED TO BE L.A., IT COULD 09:10.116 --> 09:11.084 HAVE BEEN MINNEAPOLIS. 09:11.084 --> 09:13.086 IT WAS ACTUALLY IMPORTANT THAT IT WAS L.A. 09:13.086 --> 09:14.087 AND YOU TOOK A LOT FROM THAT. 09:14.087 --> 09:15.088 >> YEAH, SURE. 09:15.088 --> 09:17.590 BESIDES THE GROWING UP STUFF, I WAS INFLUENCED BY -- A LOT BY 09:17.590 --> 09:19.859 THIS ARTIST/ARCHITECT, JOHN KNIGHT, 09:19.859 --> 09:23.163 WHO WAS A -- WHO IS A CONCEPTUAL ARTIST. 09:23.163 --> 09:28.401 AND IT WAS INTERESTING. 09:28.401 --> 09:32.772 A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, JUST LOOKING AT THE CITY THROUGH -- IN THAT 09:32.772 --> 09:35.175 WAY AND LOOKING FOR A SUBJECT MATTER IN SUBURBIA. 09:37.510 --> 09:38.511 >> YEAH. 09:38.511 --> 09:43.450 >> AND TAKING THAT TO NEW YORK WAS CONFUSING. 09:43.450 --> 09:44.717 BUT IT WAS INTERESTING. 09:44.717 --> 09:46.719 >> BUT IT WAS INTERESTING, RIGHT. 09:46.719 --> 09:49.489 AND THEN NEW YORK, OF COURSE, IS THE OTHER PLACE IN THIS BOOK 09:49.489 --> 09:51.491 THAT IS SUCH A RESONATE CHARACTER. 09:51.491 --> 09:54.561 AND WHAT I LOVED ABOUT YOUR NEW YORK STORIES WERE -- YOU 09:54.561 --> 09:58.031 ACTUALLY INSPIRED THIS THOUGHT, IT'S THE CHOCK-FULL-OF-NUTS NEW 09:58.031 --> 10:00.033 YORK, NOT THE STARBUCKS NEW YORK. 10:00.033 --> 10:01.034 >> RIGHT. 10:01.034 --> 10:02.035 >> RIGHT? 10:02.035 --> 10:05.839 THE ERA OF NEW YORK THAT YOU WRITE ABOUT IS A PRE-GIULIANI, 10:05.839 --> 10:09.342 PRE-CLEANED UP NEW YORK, PRE EVERYTHING THAT WE NOW, 10:09.342 --> 10:11.010 DISNEYLAND KIND OF NEW YORK. 10:11.010 --> 10:14.113 IT WAS THE OLD ROUGH AND TUMBLE AND MORE INTERESTING NEW YORK, 10:14.113 --> 10:15.114 RIGHT? 10:15.114 --> 10:16.316 >> YEAH. 10:16.316 --> 10:18.518 DEFINITELY. 10:18.518 --> 10:23.690 IT'S -- YEAH, 42ND STREET, TIMES SQUARE WAS -- STILL HAD THIS, 10:23.690 --> 10:29.028 SORT OF LIKE THAT SHOW, B MOVIE. 10:29.028 --> 10:31.030 >> HOOKERS AND THE DRUGS, RIGHT? 10:31.030 --> 10:33.032 THAT WAS WHEN NEW YORK WAS NEW YORK, RIGHT? 10:33.032 --> 10:35.034 >> YEAH, BEFORE DISNEYLAND MOVED IN. 10:35.034 --> 10:36.035 >> RIGHT. 10:36.035 --> 10:38.037 BUT ALSO THE MUSIC SCENE IN NEW YORK AND THE CLUB SCENE IN NEW 10:38.037 --> 10:40.039 YORK, AND WHICH WAS IMPORTANT TO YOU ALL GETTING GOING AS A BAND. 10:44.878 --> 10:46.880 I WAS REALLY INTERESTED IN THE DISTINCTION YOU MADE. 10:46.880 --> 10:49.449 I SWEAR I HAD NOT THOUGHT OF IT THIS WAY OR HEARD THIS. 10:49.449 --> 10:53.319 NO WAVE AS A GENERE OF MUSIC? 10:53.319 --> 10:54.320 >> YEAH. 10:54.320 --> 10:56.322 I MEAN, IT'S HARD TO DESCRIBE NO WAVE, 10:56.322 --> 11:01.261 LIKE BANDS LIKE TEENAGE JESUS AND THE JERKS AND DNA AND MARS 11:01.261 --> 11:06.533 AND SUICIDE AND -- BUT IT WAS A VERY DISSONANT, 11:06.533 --> 11:09.168 KIND OF DECONSTRUCTED ROCK SOUND. 11:09.168 --> 11:10.170 >> YEAH. 11:10.170 --> 11:12.171 >> IT WASN'T -- THERE WAS -- YOU KNOW, 11:12.171 --> 11:13.172 A LOT OF IT WAS REALLY DENSE. 11:13.172 --> 11:20.914 AND IT WAS VERY -- ALMOST LIKE ABSTRACT EXPRESSIONISM IN MUSIC. 11:20.914 --> 11:22.615 >> YEAH. 11:22.615 --> 11:23.616 >> WITH VOCALS. 11:23.616 --> 11:25.618 >> THERE'S THAT ART INFLUENCE AGAIN, RIGHT? 11:25.618 --> 11:26.619 >> YEAH. 11:26.619 --> 11:28.621 A LOT OF THE BANDS, ACTUALLY, WERE, I THINK, 11:28.621 --> 11:29.622 ARTISTS WHO MOVED TO NEW YORK. 11:29.622 --> 11:32.358 AND THEN THERE WERE PEOPLE LIKE GLENN BRANCA AND RHYS CHATHAM, 11:32.358 --> 11:35.528 WHO WERE IN BANDS AND THEN STARTED DOING THESE, SORT OF, 11:35.528 --> 11:38.264 LITTLE MINI ORCHESTRA BANDS --. 11:38.264 --> 11:39.265 >> YEAH. 11:39.265 --> 11:43.236 >> BASED ON MINIMALIST COMPOSER NOTIONS OF OVERTONES. 11:43.236 --> 11:48.975 LIKE GLENN HAD, YOU KNOW, FIVE GUITARS ALL TUNED TO A CERTAIN 11:48.975 --> 11:51.277 TUNING, WHICH HAS INFLUENCED US, EVENTUALLY. 11:51.277 --> 11:52.278 >> YEAH. 11:52.278 --> 11:53.279 >> YEAH. 11:53.279 --> 11:55.281 >> AND SO THE BAND -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO WAY TO TAKE 30 YEARS 11:55.281 --> 11:57.283 OF A BAND AND DISTILL IT INTO A COUPLE OF MINUTES. 11:57.283 --> 12:00.887 AND EVERYONE WHO SEES THIS, WHO KNOWS YOU OR KNOWS THE BAND WILL 12:00.887 --> 12:03.723 SAY OH I, YOU KNOW, GOO OR DAYDREAM. 12:03.723 --> 12:06.359 DIFFERENT PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT THEY ACCESSED OR 12:06.359 --> 12:07.360 LOVED. 12:07.360 --> 12:09.963 I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT HOW THE WORLD CHANGED IN THOSE 30 YEARS. 12:09.963 --> 12:12.465 YOU STRADDLED TWO DIFFERENT ERAS. 12:12.465 --> 12:15.068 YOU KNOW, THE OLD WAY OF DOING BUSINESS IN A LITERAL SENSE, 12:15.068 --> 12:17.770 THE SELLING AND DISTRIBUTION OF MUSIC, 12:17.770 --> 12:20.306 THE RELATIONSHIP WITH LABELS, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF, 12:20.306 --> 12:23.443 AND ALSO TOURING AND THAT WHOLE ENVIRONMENT ON THE ONE HAND. 12:23.443 --> 12:25.912 AND THEN THE MORE RECENT PERIOD OF SONIC YOUTH, 12:25.912 --> 12:29.716 BEFORE THE BAND BROKE UP, DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION, 12:29.716 --> 12:31.884 PEOPLE ACCESSING MUSIC ONLINE FOR FREE. 12:31.884 --> 12:33.886 THE WHOLE ECONOMICS OF IT HAD BEEN UPTURNED. 12:33.886 --> 12:36.656 CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR VIEW OF HOW THE WORLD THAT 12:36.656 --> 12:40.393 YOU WERE IN AS A BAND CHANGED IN THAT TIME? 12:40.393 --> 12:42.362 >> WELL, I DON'T KNOW. 12:42.362 --> 12:47.367 LIKE, I MEAN, LIKE OUR ATTITUDE IN THE BEGINNING WAS NEVER EVEN 12:47.367 --> 12:49.736 THOUGHT ABOUT BEING ON A MAJOR LABEL, FOR ONE THING. 12:49.736 --> 12:51.738 IT WAS BABY STEP, YOU KNOW, GETTING A GIG AT CBGB'S, 12:51.738 --> 12:55.008 GETTING A BETTER SLOT AT CBGB'S. 12:55.008 --> 12:59.212 >> BUT THERE WAS NO LONG-RANGE PLAN? 12:59.212 --> 13:01.014 >> NO LONG-RANGE PLAN. 13:01.014 --> 13:06.519 AND IT WAS -- YOU KNOW, IT JUST KIND OF GROWING OUR AUDIENCE 13:06.519 --> 13:10.823 AND, YOU KNOW, WE WERE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR BETTER DISTRIBUTION. 13:10.823 --> 13:14.427 AND WE DID -- YOU KNOW, WE LEFT HOMESTEAD FOR SST AND THEN BLAST 13:14.427 --> 13:16.429 FIRST WAS ALWAYS IN THE PICTURE. 13:16.429 --> 13:21.434 AND WE DID MAKE MOST OF -- I DON'T KNOW IF WE MADE MOST OF 13:21.434 --> 13:25.571 OUR INCOME FROM TOURING OR NOT, BUT BECAUSE WE ACTUALLY HAD AN 13:25.571 --> 13:27.573 ENGLISH COMPANY AND AN AMERICAN COMPANY. 13:27.573 --> 13:32.645 SO WE DID GET MONEY FROM BOTH SIDES. 13:32.645 --> 13:33.646 >> YEAH. 13:33.646 --> 13:37.417 >> BUT I THINK WE PROBABLY MADE A FAIR AMOUNT OF MONEY FROM 13:37.417 --> 13:40.787 TOURING, WHICH IS STILL THE WAY MOST PEOPLE MAKE MONEY. 13:40.787 --> 13:41.754 >> RIGHT. 13:41.754 --> 13:42.755 THAT'S THE TENSION. 13:42.755 --> 13:44.757 ARE YOU A TOURING BAND PRIMARILY THAT ALSO RECORDS? 13:44.757 --> 13:46.759 OR ARE YOU A BAND THAT MAKES ALBUMS AND THEN TOURS TO SUPPORT 13:46.759 --> 13:47.760 THE ALBUMS, RIGHT? 13:47.760 --> 13:48.761 YOU CAN BE ONE OR THE OTHER. 13:48.761 --> 13:49.762 POTENTIALLY. 13:49.762 --> 13:53.032 >> YEAH, IT'S -- I DON'T KNOW. 13:53.032 --> 13:57.036 LIKE, I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW BANDS ACTUALLY SURVIVE RIGHT 13:57.036 --> 13:58.037 NOW. 13:58.037 --> 14:00.039 SMALL BANDS, YOU KNOW, I HAVE NO IDEA. 14:00.039 --> 14:02.175 >> ESPECIALLY IN A TIME WHEN SO MUCH MUSIC IS BEING CONSUMED 14:02.175 --> 14:04.377 THROUGH SPOTIFY AND OTHER SERVICES THAT ALLOW YOU TO 14:04.377 --> 14:05.378 STREAM IT. 14:05.378 --> 14:07.413 EVEN IF YOU DON'T GET TO KEEP IT, IT'S ESSENTIALLY THE SAME. 14:07.413 --> 14:11.350 PROBABLY LESS MONEY -- IT WOULD FEEL LIKE LESS MONEY, FEEL LIKE, 14:11.350 --> 14:13.353 LESS MONEY IS CHANGING HANDS NOW. 14:13.353 --> 14:14.353 >> YEAH. 14:14.353 --> 14:16.355 YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S VERY AMBIGUOUS. 14:16.355 --> 14:18.991 LIKE, I NEVER REALLY GOT THE SENSE THAT WE WERE MAKING ANY 14:18.991 --> 14:21.961 MONEY FROM RECORD SALES. 14:21.961 --> 14:22.962 >> ANYWAY. 14:22.962 --> 14:23.963 >> YEAH. 14:23.963 --> 14:25.965 >> SO MAYBE NOTHING TO LOSE, RIGHT? 14:25.965 --> 14:30.403 >> YEAH, ALTHOUGH WE ALWAYS HAD THIS BACK CATALOG THAT WE COULD, 14:30.403 --> 14:32.739 YOU KNOW, KEEP PUTTING BACK INTO PRINT, SO --. 14:32.739 --> 14:33.840 >> YEAH. 14:33.840 --> 14:35.842 WE WERE TALKING ABOUT AIMEE MANN EARLIER BEFORE WE CAME OUT. 14:35.842 --> 14:38.711 AIMEE MANN IS ONE OF THE PEOPLE TODAY, SHE'S NOT ALONE IN THIS, 14:38.711 --> 14:42.048 WHO ARE ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, RESISTING THIS TURNING 14:42.048 --> 14:45.551 EVERYTHING OVER TO THE ELECTRONIC END OF THINGS AND 14:45.551 --> 14:47.553 ALLOWING MUSIC TO BE, ESSENTIALLY, 14:47.553 --> 14:49.555 TAKEN WITHOUT BEING COMPENSATED FOR IT. 14:49.555 --> 14:53.092 ALL THE SONIC YOUTH RECORDS, FROM MY CURSORY EXAMINATION, 14:53.092 --> 14:54.660 ARE ALL AVAILABLE ON SPOTIFY. 14:54.660 --> 14:56.662 YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GET ACCESS TO THIS STUFF. 14:56.662 --> 14:58.564 YOU HAVE NO BEEF WITH THAT? 14:58.564 --> 15:02.502 >> I DON'T REALLY PAY ATTENTION TO IT. 15:02.502 --> 15:06.439 I MEAN, I -- I DON'T KNOW. 15:06.439 --> 15:08.808 I DON'T KNOW, REALLY. 15:08.808 --> 15:11.244 I TRUST OUR MANAGER'S GOT US THE BEST DEAL HE COULD. 15:11.244 --> 15:13.346 >> HONESTLY NOT HAVING AN OPINION ABOUT IT IS A PERFECTLY 15:13.346 --> 15:14.347 GOOD ANSWER. 15:14.347 --> 15:15.348 >> I REALLY DON'T. 15:15.348 --> 15:17.350 YOU KNOW, I JUST DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO IT. 15:17.350 --> 15:19.352 I JUST FIGURE WE'RE JUST NOT MAKING ANY MONEY. 15:19.352 --> 15:20.353 [LAUGHTER]. 15:20.353 --> 15:21.354 >> RIGHT. 15:21.354 --> 15:23.956 >> I MEAN, I JUST -- MY BAR IS SET PRETTY LOW. 15:23.956 --> 15:24.957 >> RIGHT. 15:24.957 --> 15:26.959 YOU'RE PRETTY ZEN ABOUT THE WHOLE THING. 15:26.959 --> 15:28.961 >> YEAH, BUT I, YOU KNOW, NOW I HAVE THIS DUO CALLED BODY/HEAD 15:28.961 --> 15:33.366 WITH BILL NACE. 15:33.366 --> 15:34.367 >> BILL NACE, YEAH. 15:34.367 --> 15:41.007 >> AND THERE ARE ONLY TWO OF US, SO EVEN IF WE HAVE A SOUND 15:41.007 --> 15:45.445 PERSON -- LIKE, YOU CAN MAKE, YOU KNOW, 15:45.445 --> 15:48.815 I CAN ACTUALLY GO OUT AND MAKE AS MUCH MONEY OR COME BACK WITH 15:48.815 --> 15:50.817 AS MUCH MONEY AS I DID AT THE END OF, LIKE, 15:50.817 --> 15:52.919 A MONTH-LONG SONIC YOUTH TOUR. 15:52.919 --> 15:54.921 >> DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING TODAY. 15:54.921 --> 15:57.723 >> YEAH, BECAUSE THERE AREN'T ALL THE EXPENSES. 15:57.723 --> 15:59.725 YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST LIKE ALL THE OVERHEAD --. 15:59.725 --> 16:00.726 >> WELL, NO OVERHEAD, RIGHT? 16:00.726 --> 16:02.728 >> YOU MAKE A LOT OF MONEY BUT THEN YOU JUST HAVE ALL THESE 16:02.728 --> 16:03.729 EXPENSES. 16:03.729 --> 16:05.731 >> ARE YOU STILL ENJOYING DOING IT, OUT PERFORMING? 16:05.731 --> 16:06.732 >> YEAH, YEAH. 16:06.732 --> 16:09.135 ESPECIALLY IF I DON'T HAVE TO PLUG IN MY OWN EFFECT BOXES AND 16:09.135 --> 16:10.503 GET DOWN ON MY KNEES. 16:10.503 --> 16:11.504 [LAUGHTER]. 16:11.504 --> 16:14.073 >> LET ME COME BACK TO THE BOOK AND TO THE TITLE. 16:14.073 --> 16:18.177 AGAIN, WE SAID "GIRL IN A BAND" IS -- THE BASIS FOR IT IS A 16:18.177 --> 16:20.913 LYRIC, HAVING "SACRED TRICKSTER" IS THE SONG, IS THAT RIGHT? 16:20.913 --> 16:24.750 AND THE QUESTION IS ASKED, WHAT'S IT LIKE TO BE A GIRL IN A 16:24.750 --> 16:25.751 BAND? 16:25.751 --> 16:27.753 I'M GOING TO WALK UP TO THE EDGE HERE, DANGEROUSLY, 16:27.753 --> 16:28.754 OF MANSPLAINING. 16:28.754 --> 16:30.756 I THINK OF IT MORE AS MAN-SPLORING, ACTUALLY, 16:30.756 --> 16:31.757 ASKING THE QUESTION. 16:31.757 --> 16:33.059 YOU KNOW, THIS QUESTION --. 16:33.059 --> 16:34.060 [LAUGHTER]. 16:34.060 --> 16:35.061 >> YOU'RE A GENIUS. 16:35.061 --> 16:37.063 >> GET READY, GO AHEAD, GO AHEAD. 16:37.063 --> 16:38.064 GO AHEAD, SIT BACK. 16:38.064 --> 16:41.033 WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS ACTUALLY NOT AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION, 16:41.033 --> 16:43.035 BUT I WANT TO UNDERSTAND IF YOUR EXPERIENCE, 16:43.035 --> 16:45.037 WHICH YOU WRITE ABOUT QUITE, I THINK, 16:45.037 --> 16:48.774 QUITE MOVINGLY AND COMPELLINGLY IN THIS BOOK, IS IT UNIVERSAL? 16:48.774 --> 16:51.177 SO IF I HAD GEORGIA HUBLEY FROM YO LA TENGA UP HERE, 16:51.177 --> 16:54.146 WOULD SHE HAVE THE SAME EXPERIENCE, IN THIS RESPECT, 16:54.146 --> 16:55.414 AS YOU HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT? 16:55.414 --> 16:58.150 OR IF I HAD CARRIE BROWNSTEIN HERE WHO IS IN A BAND OF ALL 16:58.150 --> 16:59.485 WOMEN. 16:59.485 --> 17:01.454 IS THE EXPERIENCE THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, 17:01.454 --> 17:02.455 WHICH IS A LEGITIMATE TOPIC. 17:02.455 --> 17:04.457 YOU RAISED IT AND I THINK IT'S A GOOD TOPIC AND IT OUGHT TO BE 17:04.457 --> 17:05.558 DISCUSSED CANDIDLY AND FRANKLY. 17:05.558 --> 17:06.792 IS IT A UNIVERSAL EXPERIENCE? 17:06.792 --> 17:08.527 >> I THINK IT IS. 17:08.527 --> 17:11.797 I MEAN, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO PLAY ROCK BANDS 17:11.797 --> 17:17.803 OR -- I MEAN, I DON'T THINK ANYONE SAYS WHAT'S IT LIKE TO BE 17:20.373 --> 17:22.875 A FEMALE POP SINGER, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? 17:22.875 --> 17:23.876 >> RIGHT. 17:23.876 --> 17:26.212 AND NO ONE SAYS WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE A MAN IN A BAND OR A BOY 17:26.212 --> 17:27.213 IN A BAND. 17:27.213 --> 17:28.214 >> WELL, YEAH. 17:28.214 --> 17:29.215 THAT'S TRUE. 17:29.215 --> 17:31.217 >> I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER HEARD ANYBODY ASK THAT QUESTION. 17:31.217 --> 17:32.218 >> YEAH, YEAH. 17:32.218 --> 17:33.219 I'VE ASKED THAT, BUT --. 17:33.219 --> 17:34.220 >> YOU HAVE? 17:34.220 --> 17:35.221 [LAUGHTER]. 17:35.221 --> 17:37.223 >> WELL, WHAT'S YOUR PARTICULAR INSIGHT INTO THAT? 17:37.223 --> 17:39.225 >> YOU KNOW, THAT'S KIND OF HOW I GOT INVOLVED WITH PLAYING 17:39.225 --> 17:40.226 MUSIC. 17:40.226 --> 17:42.228 I WAS WRITING ARTICLES ABOUT THAT MALE BONDING. 17:42.228 --> 17:43.229 >> YEAH, RIGHT. 17:43.229 --> 17:46.132 >> I DON'T HAVE ANY INSIGHT. 17:46.132 --> 17:50.536 ALTHOUGH, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL STILL MORE PARALLEL PLAY. 17:50.536 --> 17:57.610 YOU KNOW, IT'S COMMUNICATING, PLAYING SIDE-BY-SIDE OR, 17:57.610 --> 17:58.611 YOU KNOW. 17:58.611 --> 18:01.681 AND SO IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN GOING OUT BOWLING TOGETHER. 18:01.681 --> 18:02.682 >> RIGHT. 18:02.682 --> 18:06.319 EXCEPT THE EXPERIENCE ONE INTUITS FROM THIS THAT THE 18:06.319 --> 18:10.456 EXPERIENCE OF BEING A WOMAN IN A BAND LIKE SONIC YOUTH AND BEING 18:10.456 --> 18:13.326 A MAN IN A BAND LIKE SONIC YOUTH IS NOT EQUIVALENT, RIGHT? 18:13.326 --> 18:14.327 >> YEAH, SURE. 18:14.327 --> 18:15.528 >> RIGHT. 18:15.528 --> 18:20.299 >> I THINK WOMEN ARE MORE COMMUNICATORS. 18:20.299 --> 18:25.004 LIKE, I'VE BEEN IN BANDS WITH GIRLS, LIKE FREE KITTEN AND --. 18:25.004 --> 18:26.072 >> YEP. 18:26.072 --> 18:30.910 >> AND IT'S NOT JUST THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES, 18:30.910 --> 18:34.547 IT IS MORE THAT I THINK WOMEN LIKE TO TALK. 18:34.547 --> 18:36.549 I MEAN, ASK LEE OR KENNY ABOUT THIS. 18:36.549 --> 18:39.719 YOU KNOW, THEY TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING AND THEY TALK IT ALL 18:39.719 --> 18:45.224 OUT, WHICH I THINK MEN OR BOYS IN BANDS DON'T --. 18:45.224 --> 18:46.225 >> LESS INCLINED TO DO? 18:46.225 --> 18:47.226 >> YEAH. 18:47.226 --> 18:48.227 >> RIGHT? 18:48.227 --> 18:50.229 WELL, LET ME CONTINUE TO WALK UP TO THE EDGE OF GOING INTO AN 18:50.229 --> 18:52.231 ABYSS AND ASK ONE MORE QUESTION ON THIS SUBJECT. 18:52.231 --> 18:53.232 >> YEAH. 18:53.232 --> 18:56.602 >> SO IN 1994, YOU HAD A CHILD. 18:56.602 --> 19:00.239 NO ONE WOULD ASK THURSTON WHAT'S IT LIKE TO BE A DAD AND BE IN A 19:00.239 --> 19:01.240 BAND. 19:01.240 --> 19:02.241 >> RIGHT. 19:02.241 --> 19:04.243 >> BUT EVERYBODY FEELS COMPELLED TO ASK A WOMAN, 19:04.243 --> 19:06.245 WHO HAS A CHILD AND TOURS, WHAT'S IT LIKE TO BE A ROCK 'N' 19:06.245 --> 19:07.246 ROLL MOM. 19:07.246 --> 19:08.214 >> YEAH. 19:08.214 --> 19:10.216 >> IS THIS EVEN A TOPIC WORTH EXPLORING? 19:10.216 --> 19:12.284 SHOULD PEOPLE BE THINKING ABOUT YOU AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU IN THIS 19:12.284 --> 19:13.819 SITUATION IN TERMS LIKE THIS? 19:13.819 --> 19:21.027 >> WELL, I THINK SO, BUT I DO THINK A LOT OF MEN GET -- HAVE 19:21.027 --> 19:22.028 RESENTMENT. 19:22.028 --> 19:24.030 NO ONE THINKS ABOUT HOW THEY FEEL. 19:24.030 --> 19:26.032 >> DO YOU THINK MEN ARE VICTIMS IN THIS CASE? 19:26.032 --> 19:27.033 [LAUGHTER]. 19:27.033 --> 19:28.267 >> THAT'S A NEW ONE. 19:28.267 --> 19:29.502 I HADN'T HEARD THAT ONE. 19:29.502 --> 19:30.970 >> A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW. 19:30.970 --> 19:33.906 NO, I MEAN, IT'S HARD TO GO AWAY AND LEAVE YOUR FAMILY. 19:33.906 --> 19:34.907 >> RIGHT. 19:34.907 --> 19:36.909 BUT YOUR DAUGHTER, BY ALL ACCOUNTS, 19:36.909 --> 19:39.345 SEEMS TO BE REMARKABLE AND HAS GROWN UP IN A WAY THAT WOULD 19:39.345 --> 19:43.816 SUGGEST THE KIND OF PARENTING THAT SHE GOT WAS TOTALLY 19:43.816 --> 19:46.018 APPROPRIATE TO THE JOB. 19:46.018 --> 19:48.187 AND I'M THINKING, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, 19:48.187 --> 19:51.424 I WOULD THINK IF I WERE ON THE ROAD AS MUCH AS THE BAND, 19:51.424 --> 19:53.426 OR A BAND, IS ON THE ROAD IN THAT TIME, 19:53.426 --> 19:54.427 IT WOULD BE REALLY HARD. 19:54.427 --> 19:55.428 >> YEAH, NO. 19:55.428 --> 19:57.430 >> I'M EMPATHETIC PARENT-TO-PARENT, RIGHT? 19:57.430 --> 20:00.733 >> YEAH, NO, IT WAS HARD BECAUSE EVEN IF YOU BRING SOMEONE ALONG 20:00.733 --> 20:06.539 TO HELP TAKE CARE, YOU STILL HAVE TO -- IT'S HARD TO EKE OUT 20:06.539 --> 20:08.908 TIME FOR YOURSELF --. 20:08.908 --> 20:09.909 >> YEP. 20:09.909 --> 20:11.911 >> LIKE ON THE DAY OFF, EVERYONE HAS A DAY OFF BUT YOU BECAUSE 20:11.911 --> 20:12.912 THEN YOU'RE WITH --. 20:12.912 --> 20:14.413 >> RIGHT. 20:14.413 --> 20:16.415 >> -- YOUR CHILD, WHO YOU WANT TO BE WITH, 20:16.415 --> 20:17.650 BUT YOU'RE REALLY TIRED. 20:17.650 --> 20:18.651 >> OF COURSE. 20:18.651 --> 20:19.652 YEAH. 20:19.652 --> 20:26.725 >> AND, YEAH, THERE'S JUST A LOT TO WORRY AND THINK ABOUT THAT 20:26.725 --> 20:28.794 YOU CARRY ALONG WITH YOU THAN ON TOUR --. 20:28.794 --> 20:30.796 >> SHE'S AT THE ART INSTITUTE IN CHICAGO NOW? 20:30.796 --> 20:31.797 >> UH-HUH. 20:31.797 --> 20:32.798 >> YEAH? 20:32.798 --> 20:34.366 SHE'S A CHIP OFF THE OLD BLOCK. 20:34.366 --> 20:36.368 ART SCHOOL, ART SCHOOL, RIGHT? 20:36.368 --> 20:40.506 >> YEAH, SHE'S -- I THINK SHE'S GOING TO HAVE A MUCH MORE 20:40.506 --> 20:42.942 STRAIGHTFORWARD CAREER PATH. 20:42.942 --> 20:44.243 >> WHAT DOES SHE WANT TO DO? 20:44.243 --> 20:45.244 >> BE A PAINTER. 20:45.244 --> 20:46.245 >> YEAH? 20:46.245 --> 20:47.246 >> YEAH. 20:47.246 --> 20:48.214 >> PRETTY GOOD. 20:48.214 --> 20:49.215 >> YEAH. 20:49.215 --> 20:51.217 '94 WAS SIGNIFICANT IN THIS BOOK BECAUSE YOU TALK ABOUT IT IN TWO 20:51.217 --> 20:52.218 DIFFERENT WAYS. 20:52.218 --> 20:54.220 COCO WAS BORN AND ALSO KURT COBAIN DIED. 20:54.220 --> 20:56.455 HE IS ALSO A REALLY INTERESTING CHARACTER IN THIS BOOK. 20:56.455 --> 21:00.025 AND THE STORY OF KURT COBAIN AND NIRVANA IS TOLD HERE, 21:00.025 --> 21:03.395 IN A VERY PERSONAL WAY BY YOU, DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I'VE READ 21:03.395 --> 21:04.396 BEFORE. 21:04.396 --> 21:06.398 WHAT DID YOU SEE IN HIM AND THEM? 21:06.398 --> 21:08.467 WHAT GAVE YOU A SENSE THAT THEY WERE GOING TO BE SOMETHING? 21:11.170 --> 21:13.806 >> WELL, THEY HAD THESE GREAT SONGS, FOR ONE THING, 21:13.806 --> 21:18.778 THAT WERE ALMOST LIKE -- I EVEN THINK OF THEM AS, LIKE, 21:18.778 --> 21:22.715 SCULPTURAL IN THEIR SORT OF MINIMAL ASPECT OF, LIKE, 21:22.715 --> 21:24.016 THE RHYTHM SECTION. 21:24.016 --> 21:26.018 AND, BUT, I DON'T KNOW. 21:26.018 --> 21:32.424 JUST THAT KURT, HE WASN'T PERFORMING IN THE SENSE OF 21:32.424 --> 21:34.593 ENTERTAINMENT, YOU KNOW, OR HIS IDEA OF ENTERTAINMENT. 21:34.593 --> 21:40.599 YOU KNOW, HE WAS JUST TAKING IT AS FAR AS HE COULD. 21:43.035 --> 21:44.036 >> YEAH. 21:44.036 --> 21:45.037 >> LIVE PERFORMANCE. 21:45.037 --> 21:47.673 AND IF HE FELT FRUSTRATED OR ANGRY, 21:47.673 --> 21:49.742 HE DIDN'T REALLY HAVE A FILTER FOR THAT. 21:49.742 --> 21:50.876 >> YEAH. 21:50.876 --> 21:52.845 >> FRANKLY, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS THINKING. 21:52.845 --> 21:56.282 BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SEE SOMEBODY HURL THEMSELVES ON A 21:56.282 --> 21:59.518 DRUM KIT, LIKE THAT'S NOT JUST --. 21:59.518 --> 22:00.519 >> THAT'S A TELL. 22:00.519 --> 22:02.655 >> THAT'S NOT PETE TOWNSHEND SMASHING A GUITAR. 22:02.655 --> 22:03.656 >> RIGHT. 22:03.656 --> 22:04.657 >> YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? 22:04.657 --> 22:05.658 IT'S --. 22:05.658 --> 22:07.993 >> WELL, IF HE WERE HERE AND I ASKED HIM A VERSION OF THE 22:07.993 --> 22:12.565 QUESTION I ASKED YOU, ARE YOU DOING IT FOR US OR ARE YOU DOING 22:12.565 --> 22:13.566 IT FOR YOU? 22:13.566 --> 22:15.534 HE'S DOING IT FOR HIM. 22:15.534 --> 22:19.805 >> BUT I ALSO THINK, YOU KNOW, LIKE MAYBE HE HAD THIS IDEA OF 22:19.805 --> 22:23.909 ROCK AS BEING UNCOMPROMISING, IN A WAY, AND PERFORMING LIVE, 22:23.909 --> 22:30.015 LIKE IT'S NOT JUST PUTTING ON A SHOW AND, YOU KNOW, 22:30.015 --> 22:31.016 PLAYING THIS SONG. 22:31.016 --> 22:33.018 IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT PLAYING THE SONGS. 22:33.018 --> 22:34.019 >> YEAH. 22:34.019 --> 22:35.020 CAN UNDERSTAND THAT? 22:35.020 --> 22:36.021 THAT FEELS FAMILIAR TO YOU? 22:36.021 --> 22:38.023 >> YEAH, THAT FEELS FAMILIAR TO ME. 22:38.023 --> 22:40.025 >> SO TO KIND OF COME BACK FULL CIRCLE, 22:40.025 --> 22:41.994 LAST YEAR NIRVANA WAS INDUCTED INTO THE ROCK 'N' ROLL HALL OF 22:41.994 --> 22:42.995 FAME. 22:42.995 --> 22:44.997 AND KRIST NOVOSELIC AND DAVE GROHL PLAYED, 22:44.997 --> 22:46.999 BUT YOU ALSO WERE PART OF THE BAND. 22:46.999 --> 22:49.001 IT WAS YOU AND ST. VINCENT, JOAN JETT, AND LANA DEL REY. 22:49.001 --> 22:50.002 SEE WHAT I DID THERE? 22:50.002 --> 22:51.003 I KNOW YOU DON'T LIKE HER. 22:51.003 --> 22:52.004 [LAUGHTER]. 22:52.004 --> 22:53.005 >> IT WAS --. 22:53.005 --> 22:55.007 >> YOU'RE TAKING ME OUT OF CONTEXT. 22:55.007 --> 22:56.709 >> I AM, I AM, I AM, SORRY. 22:56.709 --> 22:57.710 AND LORDE. 22:57.710 --> 23:00.179 AND THAT MUST HAVE BEEN -- FOR YOU THAT MUST HAVE BEEN KIND OF 23:00.179 --> 23:02.114 A FUN AND AMAZING THING TO DO. 23:02.114 --> 23:03.115 >> YEAH, IT WAS. 23:03.115 --> 23:05.784 I MEAN, IT WAS KIND OF THRILLING AND SCARY. 23:08.654 --> 23:10.956 YEAH, I DON'T FEEL LIKE I EVER HAVE TO GO TO ONE OF THOSE EVER 23:10.956 --> 23:11.957 AGAIN. 23:11.957 --> 23:12.958 [LAUGHTER]. 23:12.958 --> 23:14.093 >> ON THAT SUBJECT, LET'S --. 23:14.093 --> 23:15.094 >> FIVE HOURS. 23:15.094 --> 23:17.096 >> LET'S SPEAK ABOUT THAT FOR A SECOND. 23:17.096 --> 23:20.366 WHAT ON EARTH IS WRONG WITH THE WORLD THAT SONIC YOUTH IS NOT IN 23:20.366 --> 23:21.367 THE ROCK 'N' ROLL HALL OF FAME? 23:21.367 --> 23:23.435 THIS FEELS LIKE THE SNUB OF SNUBS. 23:23.435 --> 23:24.436 >> WELL, I DON'T KNOW. 23:24.436 --> 23:28.641 I JUST DON'T THINK WE WERE -- SOLD ENOUGH RECORDS. 23:28.641 --> 23:30.676 I MEAN, I DON'T THINK WE'RE THAT POPULAR. 23:30.676 --> 23:31.911 >> REALLY? 23:31.911 --> 23:34.680 SO NSYNC WILL BE IN THE HALL OF FAME HERE AT SOME POINT? 23:34.680 --> 23:36.715 IS THIS ALL ABOUT THAT? 23:36.715 --> 23:37.716 REALLY? 23:37.716 --> 23:38.717 >> I THINK SO. 23:38.717 --> 23:39.718 >> WELL, DOWN WITH THAT. 23:39.718 --> 23:42.221 I, FOR ONE, THINK IT'S GREAT. 23:42.221 --> 23:44.623 YOU DON'T CARE, PARTICULARLY? 23:44.623 --> 23:50.596 >> I MEAN, I -- YOU KNOW, IT'S FLATTERING TO BE NOMINATED. 23:50.596 --> 23:51.597 >> RIGHT. 23:51.597 --> 23:52.598 [LAUGHTER]. 23:52.598 --> 23:53.599 >> RIGHT. 23:53.599 --> 23:58.404 >> BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF OLD GUYS THERE AT THIS -- 23:58.404 --> 23:59.571 LIKE REALLY OLD. 23:59.571 --> 24:02.408 AND --. 24:02.408 --> 24:05.144 >> MAYBE WE SHOULD WAIT A WHILE. 24:05.144 --> 24:09.815 >> YOU KNOW, MAYBE IN 20 YEARS WE'LL BE INDUCTED OR SOMETHING. 24:09.815 --> 24:10.816 >> YEAH. 24:10.816 --> 24:11.817 SO WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT. 24:11.817 --> 24:12.818 I WANT TO CLEAR UP SOMETHING. 24:12.818 --> 24:15.487 SO THE BAND BROKE UP IN 2011. 24:15.487 --> 24:16.488 >> UH-HUH. 24:16.488 --> 24:20.159 >> AND THERE WAS A DISCUSSION BY YOUR FORMER HUSBAND THAT THIS 24:20.159 --> 24:21.393 WAS A HIATUS. 24:21.393 --> 24:26.298 HE SAID A COUPLE OF TIMES, OR IT WAS SAID THIS WAS A HIATUS. 24:26.298 --> 24:28.767 I DON'T GET THE SENSE THAT YOU'RE ON HIATUS. 24:28.767 --> 24:29.768 >> NO. 24:29.768 --> 24:31.770 I DON'T KNOW WHEN HE SAID THAT BUT --. 24:31.770 --> 24:33.872 >> IT'S OVER. 24:33.872 --> 24:38.243 >> YEAH, I MEAN, WE DID SOMETHING FOR 30 YEARS. 24:38.243 --> 24:41.580 IT'S GOOD TO MOVE ON AND DO SOMETHING ELSE. 24:41.580 --> 24:42.581 >> YEAH. 24:42.581 --> 24:44.583 YOU DON'T FEEL ANY -- THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE A REUNION SHOW 24:44.583 --> 24:46.585 HERE AT SOME POINT AND WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE SURPRISED. 24:46.585 --> 24:47.586 IT'S DONE. 24:47.586 --> 24:48.554 >> YEAH. 24:48.554 --> 24:50.556 >> SO WHAT WE HAVE OF SONIC YOUTH'S WORK WE SHOULD JUST 24:50.556 --> 24:51.724 ENJOY AND THAT'S IT. 24:51.724 --> 24:54.293 AND YOU'RE ENJOYING THIS NEW WITH BILL NACE, 24:54.293 --> 24:56.295 THE STUFF THAT YOU'RE DOING, AND THE ART STUFF THAT YOU'RE DOING. 24:56.295 --> 24:57.896 THIS IS SATISFYING YOU? 24:57.896 --> 24:58.897 >> OH, YEAH. 24:58.897 --> 25:00.899 >> ANYTHING ELSE YOU'RE DOING COMING UP YOU WANT TO TELL US 25:00.899 --> 25:01.900 ABOUT? 25:01.900 --> 25:04.069 OR IS IT JUST GOING TO BE -- THIS STUFF IS CERTAINLY PLENTY? 25:04.069 --> 25:05.571 >> YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. 25:05.571 --> 25:08.707 DOING SOME MOVIE SCORING OR A MOVIE. 25:08.707 --> 25:09.808 >> WELL, THAT'S PRETTY FUN. 25:09.808 --> 25:11.110 DONE THAT BEFORE? 25:11.110 --> 25:12.111 >> YEAH. 25:12.111 --> 25:13.112 SOMEWHAT. 25:13.112 --> 25:15.914 I MEAN, NEVER ON MY OWN BUT THE BAND DID SOME. 25:15.914 --> 25:16.915 >> GREAT. 25:16.915 --> 25:17.916 WELL, CONGRATULATIONS ON THIS. 25:17.916 --> 25:20.586 THIS IS -- I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT THIS BOOK IS NOT GOING TO BE A 25:20.586 --> 25:21.553 BESTSELLER. 25:21.553 --> 25:23.555 AND, IN ANY CASE, IT'S WONDERFUL TO GET A LITTLE BIT MORE INSIGHT 25:23.555 --> 25:25.557 INTO WHAT WE'VE WATCHED FROM A DISTANCE ALL THESE YEARS. 25:25.557 --> 25:26.558 >> THANKS. 25:26.558 --> 25:28.560 >> SO KIM GORDON, THANK YOU SO MUCH. 25:28.560 --> 25:31.096 >> THANKS FOR HAVING ME. 25:31.096 --> 25:32.097 [APPLAUSE]. 25:32.097 --> 25:35.434 >> WE'D LOVE TO HAVE YOU JOIN US IN THE STUDIO. 25:35.434 --> 25:37.970 VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT KLRU.ORG/OVERHEARD TO FIND 25:37.970 --> 25:41.073 INVITATIONS TO INTERVIEWS, Q&AS WITH OUR AUDIENCE AND GUESTS, 25:41.073 --> 25:44.209 AND AN ARCHIVE OF PAST EPISODES. 25:44.209 --> 25:46.211 >> THE NO WAVE BANDS WERE INSPIRING, 25:46.211 --> 25:49.915 LIKE DNA AND MARS AND ALAN VEGA IN SUICIDE, 25:49.915 --> 25:54.453 BECAUSE HE WAS SO CONFRONTATIONAL AND KIND OF 25:54.453 --> 25:55.788 SCARY WITH THE AUDIENCE. 25:55.788 --> 25:56.789 >> YEP. 25:56.789 --> 26:02.795 >> AND THEN, YOU KNOW, EARLIER THINGS LIKE THE YARDBIRDS. 26:11.537 --> 26:14.807 >> FUNDING FOR "OVERHEARD" WITH EVAN SMITH IS PROVIDED IN PART 26:14.807 --> 26:20.813 BY M.F.I. 26:42.434 --> 26:44.436 FOUNDATION, IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE WITHIN OUR 26:44.436 --> 26:45.437 COMMUNITY. 26:45.437 --> 26:47.439 AND FROM THE TEXAS BOARD OF LEGAL SPECIALIZATION, 26:47.439 --> 26:49.441 BOARD CERTIFIED ATTORNEYS IN YOUR COMMUNITY. 26:49.441 --> 26:51.443 EXPERIENCED, RESPECTED, AND TESTED. 26:51.443 --> 26:53.445 ALSO BY HILLCO PARTNERS, TEXAS GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS CONSULTANCY 26:53.445 --> 26:55.447 AND ITS GLOBAL HEALTH CARE CONSULTING BUSINESS UNIT, 26:55.447 --> 26:56.415 HILLCO HEALTH. 26:56.415 --> 26:58.417 AND BY THE ALICE KLEBERG REYNOLDS FOUNDATION. 26:58.417 --> 26:59.418 AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU. 26:59.418 --> 27:01.420 THANK YOU.