>>> FUNDING FOR "OVERHEAD" WITH
EVAN SMITH IS PROVIDED IN PART

BY M.F.I.

FOUNDATION, IMPROVING THE
QUALITY OF LIFE WITHIN OUR

COMMUNITY.

AND FROM THE TEXAS BOARD
OF LEGAL SPECIALIZATION,

BOARD CERTIFIED ATTORNEYS
IN YOUR COMMUNITY.

EXPERIENCED,
RESPECTED, AND TESTED.

ALSO BY HILLCO PARTNERS, A TEXAS
GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS CONSULTANCY.

AND BY THE ALICE KLEBERG
REYNOLDS FOUNDATION.

AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> I'M EVAN SMITH.

SHE'S A ROCK 'N' ROLL ICON WHO
SPENT 30 YEARS AS A BASSIST,

GUITARIST, AND VOCALIST IN THE
HALL OF FAME-WORTHY ALTERNATIVE

BAND, SONIC YOUTH.

HER MEMOIR, "GIRL IN A BAND,"
HAS JUST BEEN PUBLISHED.

SHE'S KIM GORDON, THIS IS
"OVERHEARD."

[APPLAUSE].

>> ACTUALLY, THERE ARE NOT
TWO SIDES TO EVERY ISSUE.

>> SO I GUESS WE
CAN'T FIRE HIM NOW.

>> I GUESS WE
CAN'T FIRE HIM NOW.

THE NIGHT THAT I WIN THE EMMY.

>> BEING ON THE SUPREME COURT
WAS AN IMPROBABLE DREAM.

>> IT'S HARD WORK AND
IT'S CONTROVERSIAL.

>> WITHOUT INFORMATION,
THERE IS NO FREEDOM.

AND IT'S JOURNALISTS WHO
PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION.

>> WINDOW ROLLS DOWN AND THIS
GUY SAYS, HEY, HE GOES TO 11:00.

[LAUGHTER].

>> KIM GORDON, WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> CONGRATULATIONS ON THIS BOOK.

I'M SURE IT'S GOING
TO BE A BIG HIT.

IT MUST HAVE BEEN FUN TO WRITE.

>> PARTS OF IT WERE FUN.

>> YEAH.

>> PARTS WERE BORING.

>> BORING?

PARTS OF IT WERE
BORING TO WRITE?

>> YEAH.

>> TO GO BACK THROUGH
ALL THOSE YEARS?

>> WELL, THERE'S JUST THIS
CERTAIN NUTS AND BOLTS OF

WRITING --.

>> RIGHT.

>> WHERE YOU JUST HAVE TO
EXPLAIN THINGS OR TRY AND GET A

LOT OF INFORMATION IN THAT IT'S
NOT PARTICULARLY -- YOU KNOW,

IT'S CHALLENGING.

>> RIGHT.

DID YOU WRITE IT FOR YOURSELF
OR DID YOU WRITE IT FOR US?

>> BOTH.

>> BOTH?

YEAH.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I GUESS I HAD
IN MIND THE KIND OF BOOK I'D

WANT TO READ.

>> RIGHT.

SO IN THAT RESPECT,
YOU WROTE IT FOR YOU.

BUT I ALSO WONDER IF IT FELT
TO YOU LIKE YOU HAD THINGS YOU

NEEDED TO GET OFF YOUR CHEST OR
THINGS YOU NEEDED TO GET OUT.

I DON'T KNOW YOU, BUT I FEEL
LIKE HAVING WATCHED YOU PERFORM

ALL THESE YEARS AND
UNDERSTANDING A LITTLE BIT FROM

A DISTANCE WHO YOU ARE, I FEEL
LIKE I KNOW YOU ENOUGH TO THINK

THAT YOU'RE NOT THE KIND OF
PERSON WHO IS EAGER TO TELL ALL

OR EAGER TO OPEN UP THAT
CHEST AND GET -- YOU KNOW,

TAKE A BUNCH OF STUFF
OUT AND SHOW IT TO US.

>> YEAH.

>> SO THAT WAS AN INTERESTING
QUESTION I HAD FOR YOU.

WHAT MADE YOU DO THIS?

>> I HAD A LOT OF
TIME ON MY HANDS.

[LAUGHTER].

>> OH, IS THAT RIGHT?

YEAH.

>> NO, I KNOW PEOPLE WERE
STARTING TO INQUIRE,

DIFFERENT PUBLISHERS
OR EDITORS --.

>> YEAH.

>> AND I -- YOU KNOW, WRITING
FOR ME IS THE WAY I FIGURE OUT

WHAT I'M THINKING OR
FEELING ABOUT SOMETHING.

>> AND YOU HAVE DONE WRITING
IN THE PAST, ESSAYS AND --.

>> YEAH, MORE -- YEAH.

ESSAYS AND SHORT PIECES.

SOME THINGS ABOUT L.A.

>> RIGHT.

>> SO, I DON'T KNOW.

IT JUST SEEMED LIKE
IT WAS A GOOD TIME.

IF I WAS GOING TO WRITE A MEMOIR
THAT MAYBE I SHOULD DO IT NOW.

>> RIGHT.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO UNBURDEN
YOURSELF, THIS IS THE TIME.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHEN
SOMETHING TRAUMATIC HAPPENS IN

YOUR LIFE, THEN IT DOES SET YOU
UP THINKING ABOUT YOUR WHOLE

LIFE, LIKE HOW DID I
GET HERE AND WHO AM I.

>> SO IF THE MARRIAGE HADN'T
ENDED AND IF THE BAND HADN'T

ENDED, WE MIGHT NOT
HAVE HAD THE BOOK?

>> NO.

>> YEAH.

>> PROBABLY NOT.

>> SO THIS IS THE
-- UNFORTUNATELY,

WE HAD TO HAVE THAT
TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN,

BUT I'M ACTUALLY GLAD THAT WE
ENDED UP WITH THIS IN ANY CASE.

YOUR AFFECT IN
THIS BOOK IS FLAT.

THE STORIES ARE TOLD,
NOT WITHOUT EMOTION,

BUT THEY'RE TOLD KIND
OF MATTER-OF-FACTLY,

AS IF YOU'RE JUST SORT OF GOING
BACK THROUGH AND CATALOGING AND

TELLING US THE
CHRONOLOGY OF THINGS.

DID THE TONE OF THE BOOK
COME TO YOU NATURALLY?

DID YOU WORK OR THINK
CAREFULLY ABOUT THIS?

BECAUSE I THINK IT'S UNLIKE A
LOT OF MEMOIRS IN THAT IT'S JUST

PRESENTED AS IS.

IT'S NOT PRESENTED WITH ANY
FANFARE OR ANY HAVING TO PUFF UP

THE LANGUAGE OR THE STORYTELLING
TO MAKE IT INTERESTING.

IT'S JUST HERE'S THE
STORY, THAT'S IT.

>> RIGHT.

WELL, I -- I'M KIND OF
A MINIMALIST, I GUESS.

>> YEAH.

>> AND, LIKE, YOU KNOW, HAVE
A LOT OF SUBTEXT IN THINGS.

BUT I DIDN'T WANT
TO ROMANTICIZE IT.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW,
SOME THINGS ARE --.

>> WELL, IT'S DEFINITELY NOT
ROMANTICIZED, THAT'S FOR SURE.

>> AND, I DON'T KNOW,
I LIKE TO BE SUCCINCT.

I'M NOT, LIKE, A SUPER
WORDSMITH OR ANYTHING.

SO I KIND OF FELT LIKE I WENT
MORE FOR PUNCH AND SUCCINCTNESS

AND KIND OF A DRAMA IN THE
SPACE AROUND THE WORDS.

>> RIGHT.

WELL, THE ASSUMPTION THAT A LOT
OF PEOPLE THAT WRITE MEMOIRS

MAKE IS THAT YOU WANT TO HEAR
FROM THEM AND AGAIN AND AGAIN

AND MORE AND MORE.

AND THE BOOKS CAN
BE OVERWHELMING.

BUT THE THING ABOUT THIS
IS IT'S KIND OF SPARE,

AND IN THAT RESPECT, IT'S A
MUCH EASIER BOOK TO DIGEST.

>> YEAH, WELL I FOUND IN
MOST MEMOIRS I'VE READ,

EVEN THE ONES I LIKED, I
PRETTY MUCH LOSE IT, YOU KNOW,

TWO-THIRDS OF THE WAY
THROUGH OR SOMETHING.

>> RIGHT.

>> LIKE THE KEITH
RICHARDS BOOK OR --.

>> RIGHT.

>> YOU KNOW, MANY.

>> NOT TO PICK ON
ANYBODY, PARTICULARLY.

>> NO, YEAH.

>> BUT PICK ON HIM, THAT'S FINE.

YEAH.

>> I LOVE KEITH.

BUT, NO, IT WAS -- SO I WAS
REALLY AWARE OF I DIDN'T WANT IT

TO BE BORING.

>> RIGHT.

NOW, "GIRL IN A BAND," WE'LL
COME TO LATER THE ORIGIN OF THAT

PHRASE.

IT'S PART OF A LYRIC OF A SONG
FROM AN ALBUM OF SONIC YOUTH'S,

BUT IT'S "GIRL IN A BAND."
IT'S NOT "GIRL IN A MARRIAGE,

" IT'S NOT "GIRL IN A GALLERY,"
IT'S "GIRL IN A BAND." THE

FOCUS, AT LEAST WE ARE TO TAKE
FROM THE TITLE DELIBERATELY

CHOSEN, IS THAT IT'S ON
YOUR CAREER IN MUSIC.

THE OTHER STUFF IS ESSENTIALLY
THE FRAME AROUND IT,

IS THAT RIGHT?

>> WELL, I MEAN, IT'S REALLY
-- THE TITLE WAS SORT OF MEANT

IRONICALLY.

IN A WAY, ONE, IT'S THE QUESTION
THAT EVERY FEMALE MUSICIAN HATES

BEING ASKED AND GETS
TIRED OF HEARING.

AND THEN ALSO JUST THAT I HAVE
DONE A LOT OF OTHER THINGS AND I

DON'T ACTUALLY THINK OF
MYSELF AS A MUSICIAN.

>> YOU NO LONGER DO?

>> WELL, I NEVER REALLY DID.

[LAUGHTER].

>> THAT'S INTERESTING.

SO YOU SPENT ALL THOSE YEARS,
THE MOST PUBLIC-FACING PART OF

YOUR CAREER WAS IN THIS BAND,
AND DURING THAT TIME IT DIDN'T

SEEM TO YOU OR FEEL TO YOU THAT
WE THOUGHT OF YOU THAT WAY OR

SHOULD THINK OF YOU THAT WAY?

>> WELL, IT'S NOT HOW I
PERSONALLY IDENTIFY WITH MUSIC.

I MEAN, I DON'T THINK, LIKE,
PEOPLE IN PUNK ROCK BANDS

THOUGHT OF THEMSELVES
AS MUSICIANS.

I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE THEY
DID IN A I'M A MUSICIAN --.

>> IN A LITERAL SENSE.

>> -- COME HOME WITH ME WAY.

[LAUGHTER].

>> OH, OH.

THAT WENT SOMEPLACE I
DIDN'T EXPECT IT TO GO.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

[LAUGHTER].

>> NO, BUT I MEAN, YOU
KNOW, I THINK PUNK ROCK,

WHEN PUNK ROCK HAPPENED, A LOT
OF PEOPLE GOT INVOLVED WITH

PLAYING MUSIC.

>> YEAH.

>> I MEAN, I THINK VIV ALBERTINE
TALKS ABOUT THIS IN HER BOOK,

ALTHOUGH I HAVEN'T READ IT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, ABOUT
SUDDENLY YOU ARE, LIKE,

KIND OF THROWN INTO
THIS SITUATION.

YOU KNOW, YOU WERE DRAWN IN --.

>> RIGHT.

>> -- TO THIS, LIKE, EXCITING
TIME AND WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE BECAME
INVOLVED WITH BANDS THAT -- AND

IT TOOK THEM SOMEWHERE AND --.

>> YEAH.

>> THEY DIDN'T START
OUT AS MUSICIANS.

>> DIDN'T THINK OF THAT.

AND THE REALITY IS, YOU
STARTED OUT MORE IN ART.

>> YES, EXACTLY.

>> RIGHT?

YOU WENT TO ART SCHOOL AND
YOU'RE PROBABLY BETTER DEFINED

THESE DAYS, MAYBE
THEN, MAYBE FOREVER,

AS AN ARTIST MORE THAN
AS A MUSICIAN, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, I REALIZE PEOPLE KNOW ME
HAS A MUSICIAN IN SONIC YOUTH

AND DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE
OTHER PART OF MY PRACTICE,

OUR PRACTICE.

BUT, I DON'T KNOW, I
JUST ALWAYS, I GUESS,

FELT A BIT OF AN OUTSIDER
IN THE MUSIC SCENE.

>> YEAH.

>> AS KIND OF A VOYEUR OR --.

>> WELL, IT WAS SUCCESSFUL IF
THAT WAS WHAT WORKED FOR YOU,

RIGHT?

THAT'S GOOD.

THE THING ABOUT THIS BOOK THAT
I REALLY APPRECIATE, AGAIN,

TO THE POINT THAT IT'S ABOUT
A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

THE SENSE OF PLACE IN THIS BOOK
IN AT LEAST TWO DISTINCT WAYS

REALLY WORKED SO WELL
FOR ME AS A READER.

THE FIRST WAS L.A., THE L.A.

OF YOUR UPBRINGING.

THE FAMILY STUFF
WAS FASCINATING.

GREAT GRANDMOTHER WHO SOLD
PATTERNS UP AND DOWN THE COAST,

RIGHT?

YOUR GRANDMOTHER, YOUR
PARENTS, YOUR DAD AT UCLA.

YOU AT THE UCLA LAB SCHOOL.

THE STUFF WITH YOUR BROTHER,
WHICH IS SO MOVING AND

INTERESTING AND ULTIMATELY
IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTANDING YOUR

STORY.

BUT L.A.

AS A CHARACTER IN THIS
BOOK IS REALLY GREAT.

CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT
ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF L.A.

TO YOU?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I TRIED
TO THINK OF WAYS NOT TO WRITE

ABOUT MYSELF OR -- YEAH, I
WANTED IT TO BE A PORTRAIT OF

L.A.

AT A CERTAIN TIME,
THE '60S AND '70s.

AND, I DON'T KNOW.

I JUST THINK THAT THAT'S
SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN'T GET OFF

THE INTERNET OR YOU CAN'T GET A
SENSE OF THE CONTEXT OR -- YOU

KNOW, I THINK THAT'S WHY MEMOIRS
AND BOOKS ARE SO IMPORTANT.

BUT IT'S SUCH A STRONG
FEELING ABOUT L.A.

DURING THAT TIME THAT I
JUST CARRY IT AROUND STILL.

>> RIGHT.

AND IT WAS CONSEQUENTIAL IN
TERMS OF HOW IT AND HOW WHAT YOU

SAW THERE AND DID THERE
INFLUENCED YOUR ART AND YOUR

MUSIC LATER, RIGHT?

IT WAS -- IT WASN'T JUST IT
HAPPENED TO BE L.A., IT COULD

HAVE BEEN MINNEAPOLIS.

IT WAS ACTUALLY IMPORTANT
THAT IT WAS L.A.

AND YOU TOOK A LOT FROM THAT.

>> YEAH, SURE.

BESIDES THE GROWING UP STUFF, I
WAS INFLUENCED BY -- A LOT BY

THIS ARTIST/ARCHITECT,
JOHN KNIGHT,

WHO WAS A -- WHO IS
A CONCEPTUAL ARTIST.

AND IT WAS INTERESTING.

A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, JUST LOOKING
AT THE CITY THROUGH -- IN THAT

WAY AND LOOKING FOR A
SUBJECT MATTER IN SUBURBIA.

>> YEAH.

>> AND TAKING THAT TO
NEW YORK WAS CONFUSING.

BUT IT WAS INTERESTING.

>> BUT IT WAS
INTERESTING, RIGHT.

AND THEN NEW YORK, OF COURSE,
IS THE OTHER PLACE IN THIS BOOK

THAT IS SUCH A
RESONATE CHARACTER.

AND WHAT I LOVED ABOUT YOUR
NEW YORK STORIES WERE -- YOU

ACTUALLY INSPIRED THIS THOUGHT,
IT'S THE CHOCK-FULL-OF-NUTS NEW

YORK, NOT THE
STARBUCKS NEW YORK.

>> RIGHT.

>> RIGHT?

THE ERA OF NEW YORK THAT YOU
WRITE ABOUT IS A PRE-GIULIANI,

PRE-CLEANED UP NEW YORK,
PRE EVERYTHING THAT WE NOW,

DISNEYLAND KIND OF NEW YORK.

IT WAS THE OLD ROUGH AND TUMBLE
AND MORE INTERESTING NEW YORK,

RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

DEFINITELY.

IT'S -- YEAH, 42ND STREET, TIMES
SQUARE WAS -- STILL HAD THIS,

SORT OF LIKE THAT SHOW, B MOVIE.

>> HOOKERS AND THE DRUGS, RIGHT?

THAT WAS WHEN NEW YORK
WAS NEW YORK, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, BEFORE
DISNEYLAND MOVED IN.

>> RIGHT.

BUT ALSO THE MUSIC SCENE IN NEW
YORK AND THE CLUB SCENE IN NEW

YORK, AND WHICH WAS IMPORTANT TO
YOU ALL GETTING GOING AS A BAND.

I WAS REALLY INTERESTED IN
THE DISTINCTION YOU MADE.

I SWEAR I HAD NOT THOUGHT OF
IT THIS WAY OR HEARD THIS.

NO WAVE AS A GENERE OF MUSIC?

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, IT'S HARD
TO DESCRIBE NO WAVE,

LIKE BANDS LIKE TEENAGE JESUS
AND THE JERKS AND DNA AND MARS

AND SUICIDE AND -- BUT
IT WAS A VERY DISSONANT,

KIND OF DECONSTRUCTED
ROCK SOUND.

>> YEAH.

>> IT WASN'T -- THERE
WAS -- YOU KNOW,

A LOT OF IT WAS REALLY DENSE.

AND IT WAS VERY -- ALMOST LIKE
ABSTRACT EXPRESSIONISM IN MUSIC.

>> YEAH.

>> WITH VOCALS.

>> THERE'S THAT ART
INFLUENCE AGAIN, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

A LOT OF THE BANDS,
ACTUALLY, WERE, I THINK,

ARTISTS WHO MOVED TO NEW YORK.

AND THEN THERE WERE PEOPLE LIKE
GLENN BRANCA AND RHYS CHATHAM,

WHO WERE IN BANDS AND THEN
STARTED DOING THESE, SORT OF,

LITTLE MINI ORCHESTRA BANDS --.

>> YEAH.

>> BASED ON MINIMALIST
COMPOSER NOTIONS OF OVERTONES.

LIKE GLENN HAD, YOU KNOW, FIVE
GUITARS ALL TUNED TO A CERTAIN

TUNING, WHICH HAS
INFLUENCED US, EVENTUALLY.

>> YEAH.

>> YEAH.

>> AND SO THE BAND -- YOU KNOW,
THERE'S NO WAY TO TAKE 30 YEARS

OF A BAND AND DISTILL IT
INTO A COUPLE OF MINUTES.

AND EVERYONE WHO SEES THIS, WHO
KNOWS YOU OR KNOWS THE BAND WILL

SAY OH I, YOU KNOW,
GOO OR DAYDREAM.

DIFFERENT PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT
THINGS THAT THEY ACCESSED OR

LOVED.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT HOW THE
WORLD CHANGED IN THOSE 30 YEARS.

YOU STRADDLED TWO
DIFFERENT ERAS.

YOU KNOW, THE OLD WAY OF DOING
BUSINESS IN A LITERAL SENSE,

THE SELLING AND
DISTRIBUTION OF MUSIC,

THE RELATIONSHIP WITH LABELS,
ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF,

AND ALSO TOURING AND THAT WHOLE
ENVIRONMENT ON THE ONE HAND.

AND THEN THE MORE RECENT
PERIOD OF SONIC YOUTH,

BEFORE THE BAND BROKE UP,
DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION,

PEOPLE ACCESSING
MUSIC ONLINE FOR FREE.

THE WHOLE ECONOMICS OF
IT HAD BEEN UPTURNED.

CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
YOUR VIEW OF HOW THE WORLD THAT

YOU WERE IN AS A BAND
CHANGED IN THAT TIME?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW.

LIKE, I MEAN, LIKE OUR ATTITUDE
IN THE BEGINNING WAS NEVER EVEN

THOUGHT ABOUT BEING ON A
MAJOR LABEL, FOR ONE THING.

IT WAS BABY STEP, YOU KNOW,
GETTING A GIG AT CBGB'S,

GETTING A BETTER SLOT AT CBGB'S.

>> BUT THERE WAS
NO LONG-RANGE PLAN?

>> NO LONG-RANGE PLAN.

AND IT WAS -- YOU KNOW, IT JUST
KIND OF GROWING OUR AUDIENCE

AND, YOU KNOW, WE WERE ALWAYS
LOOKING FOR BETTER DISTRIBUTION.

AND WE DID -- YOU KNOW, WE LEFT
HOMESTEAD FOR SST AND THEN BLAST

FIRST WAS ALWAYS IN THE PICTURE.

AND WE DID MAKE MOST OF -- I
DON'T KNOW IF WE MADE MOST OF

OUR INCOME FROM TOURING OR NOT,
BUT BECAUSE WE ACTUALLY HAD AN

ENGLISH COMPANY AND
AN AMERICAN COMPANY.

SO WE DID GET MONEY
FROM BOTH SIDES.

>> YEAH.

>> BUT I THINK WE PROBABLY MADE
A FAIR AMOUNT OF MONEY FROM

TOURING, WHICH IS STILL THE
WAY MOST PEOPLE MAKE MONEY.

>> RIGHT.

THAT'S THE TENSION.

ARE YOU A TOURING BAND
PRIMARILY THAT ALSO RECORDS?

OR ARE YOU A BAND THAT MAKES
ALBUMS AND THEN TOURS TO SUPPORT

THE ALBUMS, RIGHT?

YOU CAN BE ONE OR THE OTHER.

POTENTIALLY.

>> YEAH, IT'S -- I DON'T KNOW.

LIKE, I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW
BANDS ACTUALLY SURVIVE RIGHT

NOW.

SMALL BANDS, YOU
KNOW, I HAVE NO IDEA.

>> ESPECIALLY IN A TIME WHEN SO
MUCH MUSIC IS BEING CONSUMED

THROUGH SPOTIFY AND OTHER
SERVICES THAT ALLOW YOU TO

STREAM IT.

EVEN IF YOU DON'T GET TO KEEP
IT, IT'S ESSENTIALLY THE SAME.

PROBABLY LESS MONEY -- IT WOULD
FEEL LIKE LESS MONEY, FEEL LIKE,

LESS MONEY IS
CHANGING HANDS NOW.

>> YEAH.

YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S
VERY AMBIGUOUS.

LIKE, I NEVER REALLY GOT THE
SENSE THAT WE WERE MAKING ANY

MONEY FROM RECORD SALES.

>> ANYWAY.

>> YEAH.

>> SO MAYBE NOTHING
TO LOSE, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, ALTHOUGH WE ALWAYS HAD
THIS BACK CATALOG THAT WE COULD,

YOU KNOW, KEEP PUTTING
BACK INTO PRINT, SO --.

>> YEAH.

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT AIMEE MANN
EARLIER BEFORE WE CAME OUT.

AIMEE MANN IS ONE OF THE PEOPLE
TODAY, SHE'S NOT ALONE IN THIS,

WHO ARE ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW,
RESISTING THIS TURNING

EVERYTHING OVER TO THE
ELECTRONIC END OF THINGS AND

ALLOWING MUSIC TO
BE, ESSENTIALLY,

TAKEN WITHOUT BEING
COMPENSATED FOR IT.

ALL THE SONIC YOUTH RECORDS,
FROM MY CURSORY EXAMINATION,

ARE ALL AVAILABLE ON SPOTIFY.

YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GET
ACCESS TO THIS STUFF.

YOU HAVE NO BEEF WITH THAT?

>> I DON'T REALLY
PAY ATTENTION TO IT.

I MEAN, I -- I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T KNOW, REALLY.

I TRUST OUR MANAGER'S GOT
US THE BEST DEAL HE COULD.

>> HONESTLY NOT HAVING AN
OPINION ABOUT IT IS A PERFECTLY

GOOD ANSWER.

>> I REALLY DON'T.

YOU KNOW, I JUST DON'T
PAY ATTENTION TO IT.

I JUST FIGURE WE'RE JUST
NOT MAKING ANY MONEY.

[LAUGHTER].

>> RIGHT.

>> I MEAN, I JUST -- MY
BAR IS SET PRETTY LOW.

>> RIGHT.

YOU'RE PRETTY ZEN
ABOUT THE WHOLE THING.

>> YEAH, BUT I, YOU KNOW, NOW I
HAVE THIS DUO CALLED BODY/HEAD

WITH BILL NACE.

>> BILL NACE, YEAH.

>> AND THERE ARE ONLY TWO OF
US, SO EVEN IF WE HAVE A SOUND

PERSON -- LIKE, YOU
CAN MAKE, YOU KNOW,

I CAN ACTUALLY GO OUT AND MAKE
AS MUCH MONEY OR COME BACK WITH

AS MUCH MONEY AS I DID
AT THE END OF, LIKE,

A MONTH-LONG SONIC YOUTH TOUR.

>> DOING WHAT
YOU'RE DOING TODAY.

>> YEAH, BECAUSE THERE
AREN'T ALL THE EXPENSES.

YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST LIKE
ALL THE OVERHEAD --.

>> WELL, NO OVERHEAD, RIGHT?

>> YOU MAKE A LOT OF MONEY BUT
THEN YOU JUST HAVE ALL THESE

EXPENSES.

>> ARE YOU STILL ENJOYING
DOING IT, OUT PERFORMING?

>> YEAH, YEAH.

ESPECIALLY IF I DON'T HAVE TO
PLUG IN MY OWN EFFECT BOXES AND

GET DOWN ON MY KNEES.

[LAUGHTER].

>> LET ME COME BACK TO
THE BOOK AND TO THE TITLE.

AGAIN, WE SAID "GIRL IN A BAND"
IS -- THE BASIS FOR IT IS A

LYRIC, HAVING "SACRED TRICKSTER"
IS THE SONG, IS THAT RIGHT?

AND THE QUESTION IS ASKED,
WHAT'S IT LIKE TO BE A GIRL IN A

BAND?

I'M GOING TO WALK UP TO
THE EDGE HERE, DANGEROUSLY,

OF MANSPLAINING.

I THINK OF IT MORE AS
MAN-SPLORING, ACTUALLY,

ASKING THE QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, THIS QUESTION --.

[LAUGHTER].

>> YOU'RE A GENIUS.

>> GET READY, GO
AHEAD, GO AHEAD.

GO AHEAD, SIT BACK.

WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS ACTUALLY
NOT AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION,

BUT I WANT TO UNDERSTAND
IF YOUR EXPERIENCE,

WHICH YOU WRITE
ABOUT QUITE, I THINK,

QUITE MOVINGLY AND COMPELLINGLY
IN THIS BOOK, IS IT UNIVERSAL?

SO IF I HAD GEORGIA HUBLEY
FROM YO LA TENGA UP HERE,

WOULD SHE HAVE THE SAME
EXPERIENCE, IN THIS RESPECT,

AS YOU HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT?

OR IF I HAD CARRIE BROWNSTEIN
HERE WHO IS IN A BAND OF ALL

WOMEN.

IS THE EXPERIENCE THAT
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT,

WHICH IS A LEGITIMATE TOPIC.

YOU RAISED IT AND I THINK IT'S
A GOOD TOPIC AND IT OUGHT TO BE

DISCUSSED CANDIDLY AND FRANKLY.

IS IT A UNIVERSAL EXPERIENCE?

>> I THINK IT IS.

I MEAN, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT PEOPLE WHO PLAY ROCK BANDS

OR -- I MEAN, I DON'T THINK
ANYONE SAYS WHAT'S IT LIKE TO BE

A FEMALE POP SINGER,
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

>> RIGHT.

AND NO ONE SAYS WHAT IT'S LIKE
TO BE A MAN IN A BAND OR A BOY

IN A BAND.

>> WELL, YEAH.

THAT'S TRUE.

>> I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER HEARD
ANYBODY ASK THAT QUESTION.

>> YEAH, YEAH.

I'VE ASKED THAT, BUT --.

>> YOU HAVE?

[LAUGHTER].

>> WELL, WHAT'S YOUR
PARTICULAR INSIGHT INTO THAT?

>> YOU KNOW, THAT'S KIND OF HOW
I GOT INVOLVED WITH PLAYING

MUSIC.

I WAS WRITING ARTICLES
ABOUT THAT MALE BONDING.

>> YEAH, RIGHT.

>> I DON'T HAVE ANY INSIGHT.

ALTHOUGH, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL
STILL MORE PARALLEL PLAY.

YOU KNOW, IT'S COMMUNICATING,
PLAYING SIDE-BY-SIDE OR,

YOU KNOW.

AND SO IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN
GOING OUT BOWLING TOGETHER.

>> RIGHT.

EXCEPT THE EXPERIENCE ONE
INTUITS FROM THIS THAT THE

EXPERIENCE OF BEING A WOMAN IN A
BAND LIKE SONIC YOUTH AND BEING

A MAN IN A BAND LIKE SONIC
YOUTH IS NOT EQUIVALENT, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, SURE.

>> RIGHT.

>> I THINK WOMEN ARE
MORE COMMUNICATORS.

LIKE, I'VE BEEN IN BANDS WITH
GIRLS, LIKE FREE KITTEN AND --.

>> YEP.

>> AND IT'S NOT JUST THAT THERE
ARE DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES,

IT IS MORE THAT I THINK
WOMEN LIKE TO TALK.

I MEAN, ASK LEE OR
KENNY ABOUT THIS.

YOU KNOW, THEY TALK ABOUT
EVERYTHING AND THEY TALK IT ALL

OUT, WHICH I THINK MEN OR
BOYS IN BANDS DON'T --.

>> LESS INCLINED TO DO?

>> YEAH.

>> RIGHT?

WELL, LET ME CONTINUE TO WALK
UP TO THE EDGE OF GOING INTO AN

ABYSS AND ASK ONE MORE
QUESTION ON THIS SUBJECT.

>> YEAH.

>> SO IN 1994, YOU HAD A CHILD.

NO ONE WOULD ASK THURSTON WHAT'S
IT LIKE TO BE A DAD AND BE IN A

BAND.

>> RIGHT.

>> BUT EVERYBODY FEELS
COMPELLED TO ASK A WOMAN,

WHO HAS A CHILD AND TOURS,
WHAT'S IT LIKE TO BE A ROCK 'N'

ROLL MOM.

>> YEAH.

>> IS THIS EVEN A
TOPIC WORTH EXPLORING?

SHOULD PEOPLE BE THINKING ABOUT
YOU AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU IN THIS

SITUATION IN TERMS LIKE THIS?

>> WELL, I THINK SO, BUT I DO
THINK A LOT OF MEN GET -- HAVE

RESENTMENT.

NO ONE THINKS ABOUT
HOW THEY FEEL.

>> DO YOU THINK MEN ARE
VICTIMS IN THIS CASE?

[LAUGHTER].

>> THAT'S A NEW ONE.

I HADN'T HEARD THAT ONE.

>> A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW.

NO, I MEAN, IT'S HARD TO GO
AWAY AND LEAVE YOUR FAMILY.

>> RIGHT.

BUT YOUR DAUGHTER,
BY ALL ACCOUNTS,

SEEMS TO BE REMARKABLE AND HAS
GROWN UP IN A WAY THAT WOULD

SUGGEST THE KIND OF PARENTING
THAT SHE GOT WAS TOTALLY

APPROPRIATE TO THE JOB.

AND I'M THINKING,
FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE,

I WOULD THINK IF I WERE ON
THE ROAD AS MUCH AS THE BAND,

OR A BAND, IS ON THE
ROAD IN THAT TIME,

IT WOULD BE REALLY HARD.

>> YEAH, NO.

>> I'M EMPATHETIC
PARENT-TO-PARENT, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, NO, IT WAS HARD BECAUSE
EVEN IF YOU BRING SOMEONE ALONG

TO HELP TAKE CARE, YOU STILL
HAVE TO -- IT'S HARD TO EKE OUT

TIME FOR YOURSELF --.

>> YEP.

>> LIKE ON THE DAY OFF, EVERYONE
HAS A DAY OFF BUT YOU BECAUSE

THEN YOU'RE WITH --.

>> RIGHT.

>> -- YOUR CHILD, WHO
YOU WANT TO BE WITH,

BUT YOU'RE REALLY TIRED.

>> OF COURSE.

YEAH.

>> AND, YEAH, THERE'S JUST A LOT
TO WORRY AND THINK ABOUT THAT

YOU CARRY ALONG WITH
YOU THAN ON TOUR --.

>> SHE'S AT THE ART
INSTITUTE IN CHICAGO NOW?

>> UH-HUH.

>> YEAH?

SHE'S A CHIP OFF THE OLD BLOCK.

ART SCHOOL, ART SCHOOL, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, SHE'S -- I THINK SHE'S
GOING TO HAVE A MUCH MORE

STRAIGHTFORWARD CAREER PATH.

>> WHAT DOES SHE WANT TO DO?

>> BE A PAINTER.

>> YEAH?

>> YEAH.

>> PRETTY GOOD.

>> YEAH.

'94 WAS SIGNIFICANT IN THIS BOOK
BECAUSE YOU TALK ABOUT IT IN TWO

DIFFERENT WAYS.

COCO WAS BORN AND
ALSO KURT COBAIN DIED.

HE IS ALSO A REALLY INTERESTING
CHARACTER IN THIS BOOK.

AND THE STORY OF KURT COBAIN
AND NIRVANA IS TOLD HERE,

IN A VERY PERSONAL WAY BY YOU,
DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I'VE READ

BEFORE.

WHAT DID YOU SEE
IN HIM AND THEM?

WHAT GAVE YOU A SENSE THAT THEY
WERE GOING TO BE SOMETHING?

>> WELL, THEY HAD THESE
GREAT SONGS, FOR ONE THING,

THAT WERE ALMOST LIKE -- I
EVEN THINK OF THEM AS, LIKE,

SCULPTURAL IN THEIR SORT OF
MINIMAL ASPECT OF, LIKE,

THE RHYTHM SECTION.

AND, BUT, I DON'T KNOW.

JUST THAT KURT, HE WASN'T
PERFORMING IN THE SENSE OF

ENTERTAINMENT, YOU KNOW, OR
HIS IDEA OF ENTERTAINMENT.

YOU KNOW, HE WAS JUST TAKING
IT AS FAR AS HE COULD.

>> YEAH.

>> LIVE PERFORMANCE.

AND IF HE FELT
FRUSTRATED OR ANGRY,

HE DIDN'T REALLY HAVE
A FILTER FOR THAT.

>> YEAH.

>> FRANKLY, I DON'T KNOW
WHAT HE WAS THINKING.

BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SEE
SOMEBODY HURL THEMSELVES ON A

DRUM KIT, LIKE
THAT'S NOT JUST --.

>> THAT'S A TELL.

>> THAT'S NOT PETE TOWNSHEND
SMASHING A GUITAR.

>> RIGHT.

>> YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

IT'S --.

>> WELL, IF HE WERE HERE AND
I ASKED HIM A VERSION OF THE

QUESTION I ASKED YOU, ARE YOU
DOING IT FOR US OR ARE YOU DOING

IT FOR YOU?

HE'S DOING IT FOR HIM.

>> BUT I ALSO THINK, YOU KNOW,
LIKE MAYBE HE HAD THIS IDEA OF

ROCK AS BEING UNCOMPROMISING,
IN A WAY, AND PERFORMING LIVE,

LIKE IT'S NOT JUST PUTTING
ON A SHOW AND, YOU KNOW,

PLAYING THIS SONG.

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT
PLAYING THE SONGS.

>> YEAH.

CAN UNDERSTAND THAT?

THAT FEELS FAMILIAR TO YOU?

>> YEAH, THAT FEELS
FAMILIAR TO ME.

>> SO TO KIND OF COME
BACK FULL CIRCLE,

LAST YEAR NIRVANA WAS INDUCTED
INTO THE ROCK 'N' ROLL HALL OF

FAME.

AND KRIST NOVOSELIC
AND DAVE GROHL PLAYED,

BUT YOU ALSO WERE
PART OF THE BAND.

IT WAS YOU AND ST. VINCENT,
JOAN JETT, AND LANA DEL REY.

SEE WHAT I DID THERE?

I KNOW YOU DON'T LIKE HER.

[LAUGHTER].

>> IT WAS --.

>> YOU'RE TAKING
ME OUT OF CONTEXT.

>> I AM, I AM, I AM, SORRY.

AND LORDE.

AND THAT MUST HAVE BEEN -- FOR
YOU THAT MUST HAVE BEEN KIND OF

A FUN AND AMAZING THING TO DO.

>> YEAH, IT WAS.

I MEAN, IT WAS KIND OF
THRILLING AND SCARY.

YEAH, I DON'T FEEL LIKE I EVER
HAVE TO GO TO ONE OF THOSE EVER

AGAIN.

[LAUGHTER].

>> ON THAT SUBJECT, LET'S --.

>> FIVE HOURS.

>> LET'S SPEAK ABOUT
THAT FOR A SECOND.

WHAT ON EARTH IS WRONG WITH THE
WORLD THAT SONIC YOUTH IS NOT IN

THE ROCK 'N' ROLL HALL OF FAME?

THIS FEELS LIKE
THE SNUB OF SNUBS.

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW.

I JUST DON'T THINK WE WERE
-- SOLD ENOUGH RECORDS.

I MEAN, I DON'T THINK
WE'RE THAT POPULAR.

>> REALLY?

SO NSYNC WILL BE IN THE HALL
OF FAME HERE AT SOME POINT?

IS THIS ALL ABOUT THAT?

REALLY?

>> I THINK SO.

>> WELL, DOWN WITH THAT.

I, FOR ONE, THINK IT'S GREAT.

YOU DON'T CARE, PARTICULARLY?

>> I MEAN, I -- YOU KNOW, IT'S
FLATTERING TO BE NOMINATED.

>> RIGHT.

[LAUGHTER].

>> RIGHT.

>> BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT
OF OLD GUYS THERE AT THIS --

LIKE REALLY OLD.

AND --.

>> MAYBE WE SHOULD WAIT A WHILE.

>> YOU KNOW, MAYBE IN 20 YEARS
WE'LL BE INDUCTED OR SOMETHING.

>> YEAH.

SO WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT.

I WANT TO CLEAR UP SOMETHING.

SO THE BAND BROKE UP IN 2011.

>> UH-HUH.

>> AND THERE WAS A DISCUSSION BY
YOUR FORMER HUSBAND THAT THIS

WAS A HIATUS.

HE SAID A COUPLE OF TIMES, OR
IT WAS SAID THIS WAS A HIATUS.

I DON'T GET THE SENSE
THAT YOU'RE ON HIATUS.

>> NO.

I DON'T KNOW WHEN
HE SAID THAT BUT --.

>> IT'S OVER.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, WE DID
SOMETHING FOR 30 YEARS.

IT'S GOOD TO MOVE ON
AND DO SOMETHING ELSE.

>> YEAH.

YOU DON'T FEEL ANY -- THERE'S
NOT GOING TO BE A REUNION SHOW

HERE AT SOME POINT AND WE'RE
ALL GOING TO BE SURPRISED.

IT'S DONE.

>> YEAH.

>> SO WHAT WE HAVE OF SONIC
YOUTH'S WORK WE SHOULD JUST

ENJOY AND THAT'S IT.

AND YOU'RE ENJOYING
THIS NEW WITH BILL NACE,

THE STUFF THAT YOU'RE DOING, AND
THE ART STUFF THAT YOU'RE DOING.

THIS IS SATISFYING YOU?

>> OH, YEAH.

>> ANYTHING ELSE YOU'RE DOING
COMING UP YOU WANT TO TELL US

ABOUT?

OR IS IT JUST GOING TO BE --
THIS STUFF IS CERTAINLY PLENTY?

>> YEAH, I DON'T KNOW.

DOING SOME MOVIE
SCORING OR A MOVIE.

>> WELL, THAT'S PRETTY FUN.

DONE THAT BEFORE?

>> YEAH.

SOMEWHAT.

I MEAN, NEVER ON MY OWN
BUT THE BAND DID SOME.

>> GREAT.

WELL, CONGRATULATIONS ON THIS.

THIS IS -- I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT
THIS BOOK IS NOT GOING TO BE A

BESTSELLER.

AND, IN ANY CASE, IT'S WONDERFUL
TO GET A LITTLE BIT MORE INSIGHT

INTO WHAT WE'VE WATCHED FROM
A DISTANCE ALL THESE YEARS.

>> THANKS.

>> SO KIM GORDON,
THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

[APPLAUSE].

>> WE'D LOVE TO HAVE YOU
JOIN US IN THE STUDIO.

VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT
KLRU.ORG/OVERHEARD TO FIND

INVITATIONS TO INTERVIEWS, Q&AS
WITH OUR AUDIENCE AND GUESTS,

AND AN ARCHIVE OF PAST EPISODES.

>> THE NO WAVE BANDS
WERE INSPIRING,

LIKE DNA AND MARS AND
ALAN VEGA IN SUICIDE,

BECAUSE HE WAS SO
CONFRONTATIONAL AND KIND OF

SCARY WITH THE AUDIENCE.

>> YEP.

>> AND THEN, YOU KNOW, EARLIER
THINGS LIKE THE YARDBIRDS.

>> FUNDING FOR "OVERHEARD" WITH
EVAN SMITH IS PROVIDED IN PART

BY M.F.I.

FOUNDATION, IMPROVING THE
QUALITY OF LIFE WITHIN OUR

COMMUNITY.

AND FROM THE TEXAS BOARD
OF LEGAL SPECIALIZATION,

BOARD CERTIFIED ATTORNEYS
IN YOUR COMMUNITY.

EXPERIENCED,
RESPECTED, AND TESTED.

ALSO BY HILLCO PARTNERS, TEXAS
GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS CONSULTANCY

AND ITS GLOBAL HEALTH CARE
CONSULTING BUSINESS UNIT,

HILLCO HEALTH.

AND BY THE ALICE KLEBERG
REYNOLDS FOUNDATION.

AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.