1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,437 >> Funding for "Overheard" with Evan Smith is provided in part 2 00:00:03,437 --> 00:00:08,041 by MFI Foundation, improving the quality of life within our 3 00:00:08,041 --> 00:00:09,576 community. 4 00:00:09,576 --> 00:00:12,412 And from the Texas Board of Legal Specialization, 5 00:00:12,412 --> 00:00:15,048 board certified attorneys in your community. 6 00:00:15,048 --> 00:00:18,519 Experienced, respected, and tested. 7 00:00:18,519 --> 00:00:22,856 Also by Hillco Partners, a Texas Government Affairs consultancy. 8 00:00:22,856 --> 00:00:26,727 And by the Alice Kleberg Reynolds Foundation. 9 00:00:26,727 --> 00:00:28,762 And viewers like you. 10 00:00:28,762 --> 00:00:30,664 Thank you. 11 00:00:30,664 --> 00:00:31,665 >> I'm Evan Smith. 12 00:00:31,665 --> 00:00:35,469 He's a veteran standup comedian whose IFC series "Maron" is now 13 00:00:35,469 --> 00:00:39,840 in its third season and whose twice-weekly podcast "WTF" has 14 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,409 made him one of the Internet age's household names. 15 00:00:42,409 --> 00:00:44,144 He's Marc Maron. 16 00:00:44,144 --> 00:00:46,146 This is "Overheard." [Applause]. 17 00:00:46,146 --> 00:00:48,815 >> Actually, there are not two sides to every issue. 18 00:00:48,815 --> 00:00:50,817 >> So I guess we can't fire him now. 19 00:00:50,817 --> 00:00:52,819 >> I guess we can't fire him now. 20 00:00:52,819 --> 00:00:56,356 The night that I win the Emmy. 21 00:00:56,356 --> 00:00:59,793 >> Being on the Supreme Court was an improbable dream. 22 00:00:59,793 --> 00:01:01,995 >> It's hard work and it's controversial. 23 00:01:01,995 --> 00:01:04,464 >> Without information there is no freedom and it's journalists 24 00:01:04,464 --> 00:01:06,333 who provide that information. 25 00:01:06,333 --> 00:01:09,836 >> Window rolls down and this guy says, hey, he goes to 11:00. 26 00:01:09,836 --> 00:01:18,078 [Laughter]. 27 00:01:18,078 --> 00:01:18,979 >> Marc Maron, welcome. 28 00:01:18,979 --> 00:01:19,780 >> How are you? 29 00:01:19,780 --> 00:01:20,380 >> Nice to meet you. 30 00:01:20,380 --> 00:01:21,481 >> Nice to meet you. 31 00:01:21,481 --> 00:01:23,016 >> I'm a little intimidated, I have to say. 32 00:01:23,016 --> 00:01:23,784 >> Really? 33 00:01:23,784 --> 00:01:25,252 >> Well, you're a great interviewer, 34 00:01:25,252 --> 00:01:27,888 and for those of us who do this sort of amateur interviewing, 35 00:01:27,888 --> 00:01:30,424 you are a professional, man, whether you know it or not. 36 00:01:30,424 --> 00:01:33,860 And to watch you or to listen to you do it is really inspiring. 37 00:01:33,860 --> 00:01:34,561 >> Well, thank you. 38 00:01:34,561 --> 00:01:35,529 That's very flattering. 39 00:01:35,529 --> 00:01:36,863 I appreciate that. 40 00:01:36,863 --> 00:01:39,566 >> Has it been hard for you to become -- five and a half years 41 00:01:39,566 --> 00:01:41,568 in this program now, 600 episodes. 42 00:01:41,568 --> 00:01:42,569 >> Yeah. 43 00:01:42,569 --> 00:01:44,571 >> I have to believe later episodes you feel more 44 00:01:44,571 --> 00:01:46,573 comfortable than your earlier ones, 45 00:01:46,573 --> 00:01:49,109 but how has that progression gone for you? 46 00:01:49,109 --> 00:01:51,745 >> I don't know that I feel comfortable, necessarily. 47 00:01:51,745 --> 00:01:54,614 I feel more comfortable with myself. 48 00:01:54,614 --> 00:01:55,615 >> Yeah. 49 00:01:55,615 --> 00:01:59,853 >> I think that the first 200 episodes were really thinly 50 00:01:59,853 --> 00:02:04,558 veiled attempts at me to get celebrities to help me with my 51 00:02:04,558 --> 00:02:05,392 problems. 52 00:02:05,392 --> 00:02:06,660 [Laughter]. 53 00:02:06,660 --> 00:02:07,861 >> Look, if it works, right? 54 00:02:07,861 --> 00:02:10,130 >> I don't know that that's really what I planned but I 55 00:02:10,130 --> 00:02:11,965 think that's what was happening. 56 00:02:11,965 --> 00:02:15,102 And I think -- I don't think I have an interview style and I'm 57 00:02:15,102 --> 00:02:17,904 wary to call myself an interviewer. 58 00:02:17,904 --> 00:02:19,373 That's the weird thing. 59 00:02:19,373 --> 00:02:23,443 Like I don't really have questions and sometimes I think 60 00:02:23,443 --> 00:02:25,946 they would help. 61 00:02:25,946 --> 00:02:26,413 >> You know what? 62 00:02:26,413 --> 00:02:28,382 But let me say this, I think it's a conversation. 63 00:02:28,382 --> 00:02:28,982 >> That's right. 64 00:02:28,982 --> 00:02:30,283 >> It's not an interrogation. 65 00:02:30,283 --> 00:02:32,519 >> I can deal with a conversationalist, 66 00:02:32,519 --> 00:02:34,588 a professional conversationalist. 67 00:02:34,588 --> 00:02:35,589 >> That's good. 68 00:02:35,589 --> 00:02:38,558 >> Well, yeah, but interviews, like I've gotten mail from 69 00:02:38,558 --> 00:02:40,894 people who are in journalism and they're like, 70 00:02:40,894 --> 00:02:43,296 you know you break all the rules of journalism but you get this 71 00:02:43,296 --> 00:02:45,298 great stuff out of people, and I'm like, well --. 72 00:02:45,298 --> 00:02:47,300 >> That you wouldn't get if you went through it in a 73 00:02:47,300 --> 00:02:48,301 conventional way. 74 00:02:48,301 --> 00:02:50,303 >> Well, I don't even know what that is. 75 00:02:50,303 --> 00:02:52,305 So maybe, you know, this whole idea of convention needs to be 76 00:02:52,305 --> 00:02:53,306 rethought. 77 00:02:53,306 --> 00:02:54,307 >> Blown up. 78 00:02:54,307 --> 00:02:55,308 >> Something. 79 00:02:55,308 --> 00:02:56,309 What are they? 80 00:02:56,309 --> 00:02:57,310 What are they? 81 00:02:57,310 --> 00:02:58,311 Do you know them? 82 00:02:58,311 --> 00:02:59,312 >> The conventions? 83 00:02:59,312 --> 00:03:00,313 >> Yeah. 84 00:03:00,313 --> 00:03:02,315 >> Well, it's like, you know, preparation, 85 00:03:02,315 --> 00:03:04,284 which you told me before you came out here --. 86 00:03:04,284 --> 00:03:05,285 >> That's it, just preparation? 87 00:03:05,285 --> 00:03:07,287 >> Well, that would be one thing, right, preparation. 88 00:03:07,287 --> 00:03:09,289 Not cursing would be another thing. 89 00:03:09,289 --> 00:03:10,290 [Laughter]. 90 00:03:10,290 --> 00:03:11,291 >> That's, but, yeah. 91 00:03:11,291 --> 00:03:12,292 >> You are awesome at cursing. 92 00:03:12,292 --> 00:03:14,294 Even if you don't think you're awesome at being an interviewer 93 00:03:14,294 --> 00:03:16,296 it's one of the podcast luxuries is you can just say whatever you 94 00:03:16,296 --> 00:03:17,297 want. 95 00:03:17,297 --> 00:03:19,299 >> Yeah, you can say whatever the [bleep] you want. 96 00:03:19,299 --> 00:03:21,301 >> We just lost Abilene and Amarillo, actually. 97 00:03:21,301 --> 00:03:22,302 [Laughter]. 98 00:03:22,302 --> 00:03:24,304 >> Look, this is the thing I want to say --. 99 00:03:24,304 --> 00:03:26,306 >> We lost them a long time ago. 100 00:03:26,306 --> 00:03:27,307 >> Is that what it is? 101 00:03:27,307 --> 00:03:28,308 They were already gone. 102 00:03:28,308 --> 00:03:29,676 This is kind of a thing now. 103 00:03:29,676 --> 00:03:31,311 Celebrities, or people who are not traditional journalists or 104 00:03:31,311 --> 00:03:32,679 interviewers, playing this role. 105 00:03:32,679 --> 00:03:34,347 Alec Baldwin has a podcast. 106 00:03:34,347 --> 00:03:35,615 >> Yeah, that went well, didn't it? 107 00:03:35,615 --> 00:03:36,483 >> Well, it's come back, though, actually. 108 00:03:36,483 --> 00:03:37,451 And I think he's pretty good. 109 00:03:37,451 --> 00:03:38,385 Not the TV program. 110 00:03:38,385 --> 00:03:40,454 That did not go well, but "Here's the Thing" podcast, 111 00:03:40,454 --> 00:03:44,291 like yours, sitting down with other, you know, 112 00:03:44,291 --> 00:03:45,926 celebrities or athletes or comedians. 113 00:03:45,926 --> 00:03:48,261 Jeff Garlin had a podcast for a while. 114 00:03:48,261 --> 00:03:49,496 I guess his has kind of come back too. 115 00:03:49,496 --> 00:03:50,130 >> I don't know. 116 00:03:50,130 --> 00:03:52,966 You know, Jeff has an interesting approach where you'd 117 00:03:52,966 --> 00:03:54,501 sit and listen and Jeff talk. 118 00:03:54,501 --> 00:03:55,202 >> Right. 119 00:03:55,202 --> 00:03:56,703 [Laughter]. 120 00:03:56,703 --> 00:03:57,504 >> I've done that show. 121 00:03:57,504 --> 00:03:58,271 >> For that matter, Baldwin also, 122 00:03:58,271 --> 00:04:01,274 Alec Baldwin is not exactly silent. 123 00:04:01,274 --> 00:04:05,946 >> Yeah, like I do talk but I don't -- it's very odd to me. 124 00:04:05,946 --> 00:04:07,180 Like Carolla does that too. 125 00:04:07,180 --> 00:04:10,217 Like he'll have you on and then you just literally if you do the 126 00:04:10,217 --> 00:04:13,386 Adam Carolla Show it's you just looking for a window. 127 00:04:13,386 --> 00:04:14,688 >> Where do I jump in. 128 00:04:14,688 --> 00:04:16,256 >> There's got to be a place here. 129 00:04:16,256 --> 00:04:18,492 I'm invited into the conversation. 130 00:04:18,492 --> 00:04:20,193 And then you jump in and he'll be like yeah, yeah, yeah, 131 00:04:20,193 --> 00:04:23,530 and then he'll go on with his thing. 132 00:04:23,530 --> 00:04:24,498 It's a hell of a style. 133 00:04:24,498 --> 00:04:27,300 >> I do think that one of the things about your end of it is 134 00:04:27,300 --> 00:04:29,336 we know you better. 135 00:04:29,336 --> 00:04:31,671 Now you said the first 200 the "T" maybe stood for therapy in 136 00:04:31,671 --> 00:04:33,073 "WTF," right? 137 00:04:33,073 --> 00:04:33,974 >> I don't know if it was therapy. 138 00:04:33,974 --> 00:04:35,175 It was conversation. 139 00:04:35,175 --> 00:04:36,710 You know, it was the way I have conversations. 140 00:04:36,710 --> 00:04:37,511 >> But you're a character. 141 00:04:37,511 --> 00:04:39,212 You're present in all these interviews. 142 00:04:39,212 --> 00:04:41,081 >> Yeah, well, I mean I don't know how to do it any other way. 143 00:04:41,081 --> 00:04:42,115 I got to stay engaged. 144 00:04:42,115 --> 00:04:45,819 I think that a lot of my intent is to connect with somebody in a 145 00:04:45,819 --> 00:04:46,853 real way. 146 00:04:46,853 --> 00:04:48,889 You know, a lot of these people come in to the garage or 147 00:04:48,889 --> 00:04:51,958 wherever I do it and I already have a relationship with them --. 148 00:04:51,958 --> 00:04:52,526 >> Right. 149 00:04:52,526 --> 00:04:53,827 >> -- in my mind. 150 00:04:53,827 --> 00:04:56,129 And sometimes it's just them fighting against that 151 00:04:56,129 --> 00:04:57,264 relationship. 152 00:04:57,264 --> 00:04:58,799 Like I've decided who they are. 153 00:04:58,799 --> 00:04:59,566 >> Right. 154 00:04:59,566 --> 00:05:02,402 >> And I will come with those assumptions and then they'll 155 00:05:02,402 --> 00:05:03,570 sort of chip away at them. 156 00:05:03,570 --> 00:05:05,205 And I'll sometimes fight them on it. 157 00:05:05,205 --> 00:05:06,773 I'm like no, no, you're not really like that. 158 00:05:06,773 --> 00:05:09,609 I think you're more like how I think you are --. 159 00:05:09,609 --> 00:05:10,177 >> Yeah. 160 00:05:10,177 --> 00:05:11,411 >> -- and there's no reason to fight me on it. 161 00:05:11,411 --> 00:05:13,013 >> But see, but you asked about convention. 162 00:05:13,013 --> 00:05:14,915 That's another thing about conventions that you don't 163 00:05:14,915 --> 00:05:17,150 follow that I think is admirable and makes this better. 164 00:05:17,150 --> 00:05:19,853 You don't pretend not to have a point of view. 165 00:05:19,853 --> 00:05:20,754 >> No. 166 00:05:20,754 --> 00:05:22,689 I don't -- just anybody I like to meet, 167 00:05:22,689 --> 00:05:23,857 it's like what are you really going to get? 168 00:05:23,857 --> 00:05:24,791 >> Well, Charlie Rose. 169 00:05:24,791 --> 00:05:26,960 Charlie Rose is the consummate, sort of down the middle, 170 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:28,762 even-tempered. 171 00:05:28,762 --> 00:05:29,763 You know --. 172 00:05:29,763 --> 00:05:30,797 >> But he blathers on too about --. 173 00:05:30,797 --> 00:05:33,300 >> But I guess the point is Charlie Rose would never say to 174 00:05:33,300 --> 00:05:35,936 Henry Winkler, when I was a kid I would dress up as the Fonz for 175 00:05:35,936 --> 00:05:36,937 Halloween. 176 00:05:36,937 --> 00:05:37,470 >> He wouldn't? 177 00:05:37,470 --> 00:05:39,172 >> Not a leather jacket -- no, I don't think he would. 178 00:05:39,172 --> 00:05:41,007 I think that actually your interview of Henry Winkler, 179 00:05:41,007 --> 00:05:42,409 which is one of recent ones that you did. 180 00:05:42,409 --> 00:05:43,376 >> Yeah. 181 00:05:43,376 --> 00:05:46,313 >> Your fan boy aspect of it was actually the thing that made it 182 00:05:46,313 --> 00:05:48,982 all better to me. 183 00:05:48,982 --> 00:05:50,717 >> Yeah, and he's a sweet guy. 184 00:05:50,717 --> 00:05:52,752 Like, he was such a sweet -- it's very interesting, 185 00:05:52,752 --> 00:05:57,123 the idea of Arthur Fonzarelli and the Fonz. 186 00:05:57,123 --> 00:05:59,659 And now, like, he's just Henry Winkler, this very grateful --. 187 00:05:59,659 --> 00:06:00,927 >> Writes kids' books. 188 00:06:00,927 --> 00:06:02,929 >> -- old man, in a way. 189 00:06:02,929 --> 00:06:04,197 Very sweet. 190 00:06:04,197 --> 00:06:06,366 Yeah, it's sort of mind blowing. 191 00:06:06,366 --> 00:06:08,168 It's kind of rewrite your childhood. 192 00:06:08,168 --> 00:06:11,004 >> But the point is you remember him from a time long ago. 193 00:06:11,004 --> 00:06:11,571 >> Right. 194 00:06:11,571 --> 00:06:12,672 And then you meet him in real life and you're like, 195 00:06:12,672 --> 00:06:13,840 you're not Fonzie. 196 00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:14,908 [Laughter]. 197 00:06:14,908 --> 00:06:17,644 >> But see, but this is the part that I love. 198 00:06:17,644 --> 00:06:20,313 You know, conventional -- I mean, I pick on Charlie Rose, 199 00:06:20,313 --> 00:06:22,182 but somebody normally wouldn't, sort of, 200 00:06:22,182 --> 00:06:23,717 cop to that and have that be the --. 201 00:06:23,717 --> 00:06:25,652 >> But I don't know what they're trying to do really then. 202 00:06:25,652 --> 00:06:27,954 You know, I watched Charlie Rose a couple of times and, you know, 203 00:06:27,954 --> 00:06:30,023 I haven't listened to Alec Baldwin. 204 00:06:30,023 --> 00:06:33,460 And that's another reason why I don't categorize myself, really. 205 00:06:33,460 --> 00:06:36,363 Because I don't really listen to that much stuff. 206 00:06:36,363 --> 00:06:37,364 >> Right. 207 00:06:37,364 --> 00:06:39,366 >> And I don't really take in a lot of -- like, 208 00:06:39,366 --> 00:06:41,868 I'll listen passively to MPR. 209 00:06:41,868 --> 00:06:43,870 I don't listen to other podcasts. 210 00:06:43,870 --> 00:06:46,606 I don't compete in that way, like I wonder what Charlie Rose 211 00:06:46,606 --> 00:06:47,607 is up to. 212 00:06:47,607 --> 00:06:50,477 Like I don't sit there at home going, oh, so this is the guy. 213 00:06:50,477 --> 00:06:54,915 You know, like I'm not -- I met him once. 214 00:06:54,915 --> 00:06:57,284 You know, he's on the CBS morning show, isn't he? 215 00:06:57,284 --> 00:06:58,051 >> Right. 216 00:06:58,051 --> 00:06:59,219 >> Right, that was hilarious. 217 00:06:59,219 --> 00:07:00,954 Those interviews are completely useless where --. 218 00:07:00,954 --> 00:07:01,955 [Laughter]. 219 00:07:01,955 --> 00:07:03,657 >> They're ridiculous, man. 220 00:07:03,657 --> 00:07:06,660 You know, you're on a morning show and there's three hosts or 221 00:07:06,660 --> 00:07:09,996 four, and they all have done a little research. 222 00:07:09,996 --> 00:07:12,032 You got four and a half minutes. 223 00:07:12,032 --> 00:07:14,034 And, like, you know, one guy would go, 224 00:07:14,034 --> 00:07:16,036 so this thing you're doing, yeah, that's it. 225 00:07:16,036 --> 00:07:18,004 And then the other one's like, and what about? 226 00:07:18,004 --> 00:07:19,005 Oh, yeah, that's it. 227 00:07:19,005 --> 00:07:20,774 Oh, and then the third one sort of like, but your hair. 228 00:07:20,774 --> 00:07:22,208 And like, I know. And then it's okay we're done. 229 00:07:22,208 --> 00:07:23,376 >> And it's over. That's the end of it, yeah. 230 00:07:23,376 --> 00:07:25,345 [Laughter]. 231 00:07:25,345 --> 00:07:25,879 >> Crazy. 232 00:07:25,879 --> 00:07:27,380 >> That's not your show. 233 00:07:27,380 --> 00:07:29,282 Why are you doing this as a podcast? 234 00:07:29,282 --> 00:07:30,650 Why is this not a radio show? 235 00:07:30,650 --> 00:07:31,751 That's one thing I thought about. 236 00:07:31,751 --> 00:07:33,019 I mean, I know podcasts are very much --. 237 00:07:33,019 --> 00:07:34,421 >> Oh, I don't know if you've heard, but radio's over. 238 00:07:34,421 --> 00:07:35,255 [Laughter]. 239 00:07:35,255 --> 00:07:36,323 >> Well, it is. 240 00:07:36,323 --> 00:07:40,193 It's over-ish. 241 00:07:40,193 --> 00:07:42,729 But, you know, the thing about a podcast is it's not a captive 242 00:07:42,729 --> 00:07:43,363 audience. 243 00:07:43,363 --> 00:07:44,531 And, you know, at least in some ways --. 244 00:07:44,531 --> 00:07:45,465 >> It's the most captive audience. 245 00:07:45,465 --> 00:07:46,333 >> No. 246 00:07:46,333 --> 00:07:47,734 >> They make a decision to listen. 247 00:07:47,734 --> 00:07:49,636 >> Well, I think that the fact that it's self-selecting means 248 00:07:49,636 --> 00:07:52,072 that you have to go find people one at a time. 249 00:07:52,072 --> 00:07:54,274 >> Yeah, but once you have them, it's pretty captive. 250 00:07:54,274 --> 00:07:55,442 You know what I mean? 251 00:07:55,442 --> 00:07:57,577 Like, I can get people to sit in their car and not get out of 252 00:07:57,577 --> 00:07:59,045 their car, even if it's a podcast. 253 00:07:59,045 --> 00:08:00,580 >> well, that's pretty good. 254 00:08:00,580 --> 00:08:01,247 That is pretty good. 255 00:08:01,247 --> 00:08:02,449 >> Well, that's what determines good radio, 256 00:08:02,449 --> 00:08:04,451 I don't want to get out of my car because you were still 257 00:08:04,451 --> 00:08:04,918 talking. 258 00:08:04,918 --> 00:08:06,152 >> The milk spoiled because I didn't want to leave. 259 00:08:06,152 --> 00:08:06,686 >> Right. 260 00:08:06,686 --> 00:08:08,555 Well, I get e-mails like that, I didn't want to get out of my car 261 00:08:08,555 --> 00:08:10,256 and I don't want to write back, like you can pause it. 262 00:08:10,256 --> 00:08:11,224 You know what I mean? 263 00:08:11,224 --> 00:08:13,893 [Laughter]. 264 00:08:13,893 --> 00:08:16,129 >> You want to stay in your car, by all means, there's a reason. 265 00:08:16,129 --> 00:08:16,930 >> Can't pause radio, that's true. 266 00:08:16,930 --> 00:08:18,198 Yeah, right. 267 00:08:18,198 --> 00:08:20,600 Did you think about this seriously being a radio program 268 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:21,434 or a TV program? 269 00:08:21,434 --> 00:08:22,736 >> No. 270 00:08:22,736 --> 00:08:23,136 I don't. 271 00:08:23,136 --> 00:08:24,204 >> How did it become a podcast? 272 00:08:24,204 --> 00:08:26,306 >> Well, I had done some radio. 273 00:08:26,306 --> 00:08:27,440 >> Right, Air America. 274 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:28,641 >> Yeah, I have done a bit of radio. 275 00:08:28,641 --> 00:08:31,378 I'm certainly no radio veteran, but I definitely was comfortable 276 00:08:31,378 --> 00:08:32,846 with the medium. 277 00:08:32,846 --> 00:08:33,313 >> Right. 278 00:08:33,313 --> 00:08:35,749 >> And, you know, by the time I started the podcast I'd gone 279 00:08:35,749 --> 00:08:40,320 back a third time to Air America for no reason at all other than 280 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,222 I was broke, I was in the middle of a divorce. 281 00:08:42,222 --> 00:08:45,258 There was a new regime in place and the idiot that fired me 282 00:08:45,258 --> 00:08:46,559 twice was gone. 283 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,396 And it was really kind of a weird situation. 284 00:08:49,396 --> 00:08:54,167 Like, I was in this money-draining divorce and I was 285 00:08:54,167 --> 00:08:55,068 sort of in trouble. 286 00:08:55,068 --> 00:08:56,169 I was about to lose my house. 287 00:08:56,169 --> 00:08:59,072 And one guy from Air America, used to be at Air America when I 288 00:08:59,072 --> 00:09:01,274 was there in the older days, he calls me up, he goes, 289 00:09:01,274 --> 00:09:02,909 there's a new guy with some new money. 290 00:09:02,909 --> 00:09:03,977 I think we should take some. 291 00:09:03,977 --> 00:09:04,911 [Laughter]. 292 00:09:04,911 --> 00:09:06,246 >> It's like robbing a bank, right, yeah. 293 00:09:06,246 --> 00:09:08,648 >> He framed it differently. 294 00:09:08,648 --> 00:09:10,583 As a liberal he said, I think it's a good opportunity for us 295 00:09:10,583 --> 00:09:11,518 to fight the good fight. 296 00:09:11,518 --> 00:09:16,523 [Laughter]. 297 00:09:16,523 --> 00:09:18,191 >> I was like, yeah, I'd like to fight that fight. 298 00:09:18,191 --> 00:09:20,460 If they could give me 50 grand up front to stop this woman from 299 00:09:20,460 --> 00:09:22,362 killing me, that would be awesome. 300 00:09:22,362 --> 00:09:23,630 >> It would be awesome, yeah. 301 00:09:23,630 --> 00:09:24,497 >> So I worked that out. 302 00:09:24,497 --> 00:09:27,734 So the good liberals, they wrote me a check to stop hemorrhaging 303 00:09:27,734 --> 00:09:29,102 the money. 304 00:09:29,102 --> 00:09:31,171 And we did -- it was a streaming video show that I did with 305 00:09:31,171 --> 00:09:33,706 Sam Seder who is the host of "The Majority Report." 306 00:09:33,706 --> 00:09:35,608 He still does political talk. 307 00:09:35,608 --> 00:09:39,546 And I was so devastated because of my divorce going on. 308 00:09:39,546 --> 00:09:41,147 Like, I was emotionally incapacitated. 309 00:09:41,147 --> 00:09:43,550 I didn't think I could be funny at all. 310 00:09:43,550 --> 00:09:44,884 So I was like, we got to get Sam in here. 311 00:09:44,884 --> 00:09:47,420 Because not only do I want to not talk or be funny, 312 00:09:47,420 --> 00:09:49,255 I don't want to talk about politics, certainly. 313 00:09:49,255 --> 00:09:51,157 I need someone in here to watch my back because I might start 314 00:09:51,157 --> 00:09:52,225 crying at any moment. 315 00:09:52,225 --> 00:09:52,759 >> Yeah. 316 00:09:52,759 --> 00:09:55,795 >> So, and me and Sam, we don't get along that great. 317 00:09:55,795 --> 00:09:57,864 It's okay. 318 00:09:57,864 --> 00:09:59,666 It's comedic, but it's difficult. 319 00:09:59,666 --> 00:10:02,168 So we're doing this streaming video show in the break room of 320 00:10:02,168 --> 00:10:04,537 Air America that no one is watching. 321 00:10:04,537 --> 00:10:05,638 And we're doing it daily. 322 00:10:05,638 --> 00:10:06,706 >> It's called "The Breakroom," right? 323 00:10:06,706 --> 00:10:07,373 >> Yeah, "Breakroom Live." 324 00:10:07,373 --> 00:10:07,941 >> Right. 325 00:10:07,941 --> 00:10:09,409 >> We could not get any traction with that thing. 326 00:10:09,409 --> 00:10:10,743 No one cared about that show. 327 00:10:10,743 --> 00:10:11,711 >> Yeah. 328 00:10:11,711 --> 00:10:14,747 >> And we were putting so much into it and it was just stupid. 329 00:10:14,747 --> 00:10:17,951 So -- but it was funny with me and Sam. 330 00:10:17,951 --> 00:10:19,953 So after a year of that they're like, well, 331 00:10:19,953 --> 00:10:22,422 we can't afford to do this anymore and I'm like, okay. 332 00:10:22,422 --> 00:10:25,992 But we still had a month on our contract. 333 00:10:25,992 --> 00:10:27,760 So being good liberals they were like, well, you know, 334 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,798 you're fired, kind of, but you still got a month, 335 00:10:31,798 --> 00:10:33,199 so you can keep your office. 336 00:10:33,199 --> 00:10:35,468 What world and what radio job has that ever happened? 337 00:10:35,468 --> 00:10:36,369 >> Any job. 338 00:10:36,369 --> 00:10:37,070 >> Yeah, any job. 339 00:10:37,070 --> 00:10:38,505 Just hang out, you know. 340 00:10:38,505 --> 00:10:39,739 >> You got a month. 341 00:10:39,739 --> 00:10:41,040 >> Yeah, and we're like, all right. 342 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,910 So I was thinking, like, well I don't know what we're going to 343 00:10:43,910 --> 00:10:45,178 do, let's try this podcasting. 344 00:10:45,178 --> 00:10:46,613 I talk to my producer, Brendan McDonald. 345 00:10:46,613 --> 00:10:47,213 >> Yeah. 346 00:10:47,213 --> 00:10:48,581 >> I said, do you think you can figure out how to post these? 347 00:10:48,581 --> 00:10:50,383 I know there's other people doing it. 348 00:10:50,383 --> 00:10:51,951 Like if Carolla can do it and get some interviews, 349 00:10:51,951 --> 00:10:53,119 certainly we could do it. 350 00:10:53,119 --> 00:10:54,220 >> This is 2009. 351 00:10:54,220 --> 00:10:55,088 >> Yeah, right. 352 00:10:55,088 --> 00:10:56,422 And he's like, all right, let's do it. 353 00:10:56,422 --> 00:10:58,458 So we started doing them and posting them and when I moved 354 00:10:58,458 --> 00:11:01,427 back to my house in L.A., which I didn't lose, 355 00:11:01,427 --> 00:11:04,264 I set up shop in the garage. 356 00:11:04,264 --> 00:11:05,899 And there's no reason for radio. 357 00:11:05,899 --> 00:11:08,034 People always ask me, why don't you want to be on Sirius? 358 00:11:08,034 --> 00:11:08,902 I'm, why? 359 00:11:08,902 --> 00:11:10,703 The thing is shifting now. 360 00:11:10,703 --> 00:11:12,071 We didn't anticipate that. 361 00:11:12,071 --> 00:11:14,774 I mean, we had 1500 listeners at the beginning and as time went 362 00:11:14,774 --> 00:11:16,876 on it sort of built. 363 00:11:16,876 --> 00:11:18,778 >> Can you quantify the audience of the podcast now as we sit 364 00:11:18,778 --> 00:11:19,913 here five and a half years later? 365 00:11:19,913 --> 00:11:21,314 >> Well, that's the difference between radio and podcast. 366 00:11:21,314 --> 00:11:22,615 >> You don't have to? 367 00:11:22,615 --> 00:11:24,250 >> No, I can do it precisely. 368 00:11:24,250 --> 00:11:24,984 >> Okay. 369 00:11:24,984 --> 00:11:26,119 So precisely what is it? 370 00:11:26,119 --> 00:11:29,389 >> For years radio has been spitting these Arbitron books, 371 00:11:29,389 --> 00:11:32,625 like these weird diaries that are based on what? 372 00:11:32,625 --> 00:11:34,761 You know, like, and they're basing their ad rates on, like, 373 00:11:34,761 --> 00:11:37,096 these weird mythical numbers. 374 00:11:37,096 --> 00:11:38,464 >> So what's the number then? 375 00:11:38,464 --> 00:11:40,833 >> Well, I think that most episodes over their life, 376 00:11:40,833 --> 00:11:42,902 some more than others, get at least a half a million 377 00:11:42,902 --> 00:11:44,204 downloads. 378 00:11:44,204 --> 00:11:45,038 >> Amazing. 379 00:11:45,038 --> 00:11:49,676 >> And each one right out of the gate gets 200,000, 300,000. 380 00:11:49,676 --> 00:11:51,311 >> And they have a long tail because people come back to them 381 00:11:51,311 --> 00:11:51,978 much later. 382 00:11:51,978 --> 00:11:54,480 >> The first six months, episodes are available for free 383 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,416 for six months. 384 00:11:56,416 --> 00:11:57,717 >> Right. 385 00:11:57,717 --> 00:11:58,751 >> And then they go behind the app pay wall, 386 00:11:58,751 --> 00:11:59,986 which is only like $7, $8. 387 00:11:59,986 --> 00:12:00,653 >> Right. 388 00:12:00,653 --> 00:12:01,154 Pretty great. 389 00:12:01,154 --> 00:12:03,356 So the people you have on are, in some cases, 390 00:12:03,356 --> 00:12:05,258 people you know well, and in some cases people you respect 391 00:12:05,258 --> 00:12:06,593 but maybe don't know well. 392 00:12:06,593 --> 00:12:07,427 >> Right. 393 00:12:07,427 --> 00:12:08,962 I think I know everybody well, though. 394 00:12:08,962 --> 00:12:10,563 So it's a good place to start. 395 00:12:10,563 --> 00:12:11,130 >> You do? 396 00:12:11,130 --> 00:12:11,998 >> Pretty much. 397 00:12:11,998 --> 00:12:14,834 Like people I know well, like comics I have known for 25 years 398 00:12:14,834 --> 00:12:17,270 even, it's not like we hang out with each other every day. 399 00:12:17,270 --> 00:12:18,771 >> But you know them. 400 00:12:18,771 --> 00:12:20,006 >> Yeah, we're kindred spirits. 401 00:12:20,006 --> 00:12:23,009 >> First show you ever did, first podcast, was Jeff Ross, right? 402 00:12:23,009 --> 00:12:23,943 >> Yeah, that was a phoner. 403 00:12:23,943 --> 00:12:24,410 >> Phoner? 404 00:12:24,410 --> 00:12:25,411 >> Yeah. 405 00:12:25,411 --> 00:12:26,646 At the beginning of the podcast, we didn't even know what the 406 00:12:26,646 --> 00:12:27,380 form was. 407 00:12:27,380 --> 00:12:28,915 There was other people hanging around the studio. 408 00:12:28,915 --> 00:12:31,250 My friend Matt was there. 409 00:12:31,250 --> 00:12:32,652 We were doing phoners. 410 00:12:32,652 --> 00:12:34,721 Sometimes I had two guests on a show. 411 00:12:34,721 --> 00:12:35,388 >> Right. 412 00:12:35,388 --> 00:12:36,689 >> It just kind of -- it was odd. 413 00:12:36,689 --> 00:12:38,358 But, yeah, he was the first guest. 414 00:12:38,358 --> 00:12:38,791 >> Right. 415 00:12:38,791 --> 00:12:40,393 >> And I don't remember what --. 416 00:12:40,393 --> 00:12:41,327 >> But I guess if you roll it forward, 417 00:12:41,327 --> 00:12:42,061 I guess, Marc, the point I'm making is, 418 00:12:42,061 --> 00:12:43,763 if you roll it forward are they people with whom you have some 419 00:12:43,763 --> 00:12:44,631 kind of relationship? 420 00:12:44,631 --> 00:12:46,866 It's not like, you know, oh, hello for the first time, 421 00:12:46,866 --> 00:12:48,034 you know, sitting down with them. 422 00:12:48,034 --> 00:12:49,435 As is the case with most shows. 423 00:12:49,435 --> 00:12:50,536 >> Sometimes it is. 424 00:12:50,536 --> 00:12:51,170 >> It is? 425 00:12:51,170 --> 00:12:52,472 >> Sure. Yeah, yeah. 426 00:12:52,472 --> 00:12:55,441 I mean, a lot of them sort of feel like first dates of sorts. 427 00:12:55,441 --> 00:12:58,411 You know, like the conversation is getting to know each other 428 00:12:58,411 --> 00:12:59,312 conversation. 429 00:12:59,312 --> 00:13:01,314 I have different nerves for different people. 430 00:13:01,314 --> 00:13:03,516 Like sometimes I don't know why I'm talking to somebody. 431 00:13:03,516 --> 00:13:06,953 You know, we get offered people. 432 00:13:06,953 --> 00:13:09,122 Now, like, we were booking on our own for years and then 433 00:13:09,122 --> 00:13:12,258 sometimes we work with a booking agency so then names come up. 434 00:13:12,258 --> 00:13:14,027 Like, that's how Huey Lewis got on. 435 00:13:14,027 --> 00:13:16,396 Like, they were like, do you want to talk to Huey Lewis? 436 00:13:16,396 --> 00:13:17,864 I'm like, yeah, why not? 437 00:13:17,864 --> 00:13:21,334 You know, like everything was Huey Lewis for a year or so. 438 00:13:21,334 --> 00:13:22,168 [Laughter]. 439 00:13:22,168 --> 00:13:25,204 >> Like, what's that guy been doing? 440 00:13:25,204 --> 00:13:27,874 >> Yeah, well, you know what, but that's a show. 441 00:13:27,874 --> 00:13:28,808 >> It turned out to be a great show. 442 00:13:28,808 --> 00:13:29,409 >> That's a show. 443 00:13:29,409 --> 00:13:30,209 >> Yeah, of course it is. 444 00:13:30,209 --> 00:13:30,943 >> But if you look at the people, 445 00:13:30,943 --> 00:13:34,514 if you go back as I did before we sat down today and looked 446 00:13:34,514 --> 00:13:36,282 back at the list of people you've had on --. 447 00:13:36,282 --> 00:13:37,150 >> Yeah. 448 00:13:37,150 --> 00:13:38,484 >> It's an impressive list of people. 449 00:13:38,484 --> 00:13:40,386 And when you think it's just a podcast. 450 00:13:40,386 --> 00:13:42,588 And I guess that's not fair to say, oh, it's just a podcast. 451 00:13:42,588 --> 00:13:44,757 But just a couple of years ago, who could have imagined --. 452 00:13:44,757 --> 00:13:45,458 >> Yeah. 453 00:13:45,458 --> 00:13:46,559 >> -- that would be --. 454 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:48,928 >> That those people would come to my garage. 455 00:13:48,928 --> 00:13:50,596 >> Well, for all practical purposes, it's a real thing. 456 00:13:50,596 --> 00:13:54,100 >> Yeah, well, no, that shift has happened. 457 00:13:54,100 --> 00:13:54,701 >> It has. 458 00:13:54,701 --> 00:13:57,704 >> At the beginning, you know, people were like coming over and 459 00:13:57,704 --> 00:13:58,571 being like, really? 460 00:13:58,571 --> 00:14:01,641 I'm like, yeah, this is the future of show business. 461 00:14:01,641 --> 00:14:03,576 [Laughter]. 462 00:14:03,576 --> 00:14:04,610 >> But you know what? It is. 463 00:14:04,610 --> 00:14:06,813 It's very -- it's DIY. That's it. 464 00:14:06,813 --> 00:14:07,680 >> I don't know what it is. 465 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:08,815 It just is what it is. 466 00:14:08,815 --> 00:14:10,883 You know, I guess it's that. 467 00:14:10,883 --> 00:14:11,918 It's going to be a mixture of things. 468 00:14:11,918 --> 00:14:12,385 >> Yeah. 469 00:14:12,385 --> 00:14:14,287 >> I don't know why my show got so popular, 470 00:14:14,287 --> 00:14:18,124 but it was funny when people used to come over -- you know, 471 00:14:18,124 --> 00:14:21,194 like when Bryan Cranston came over, he was like, you know, 472 00:14:21,194 --> 00:14:22,795 I walked him into the back and he's like, really, in here? 473 00:14:22,795 --> 00:14:24,197 And I'm like, yeah. 474 00:14:24,197 --> 00:14:26,599 And I said, you know, Jon Hamm did it. 475 00:14:26,599 --> 00:14:27,867 And he's like, oh, yeah, Hamm was in here? 476 00:14:27,867 --> 00:14:31,137 That somehow solidified it. 477 00:14:31,137 --> 00:14:31,838 >> Paved the way. 478 00:14:31,838 --> 00:14:32,705 >> Yeah. 479 00:14:32,705 --> 00:14:35,508 Like I guess it's okay if Hamm was here. 480 00:14:35,508 --> 00:14:38,144 I swear to God I really wanted to talk to Walter White. 481 00:14:38,144 --> 00:14:40,613 That whole time when Cranston was there, 482 00:14:40,613 --> 00:14:42,415 like I could not separate them. 483 00:14:42,415 --> 00:14:43,649 I have a hard time with actors and I was like, well, 484 00:14:43,649 --> 00:14:45,284 how do you make speed? 485 00:14:45,284 --> 00:14:48,755 [Laughter]. 486 00:14:48,755 --> 00:14:50,156 >> That would be a good show. 487 00:14:50,156 --> 00:14:50,857 >> I don't think he could answer it. 488 00:14:50,857 --> 00:14:52,492 But it was good. 489 00:14:52,492 --> 00:14:55,228 That was a very nerve racking one because that entire show was 490 00:14:55,228 --> 00:14:57,397 shot in Albuquerque and, like, I didn't even ask --. 491 00:14:57,397 --> 00:14:58,331 >> And you're from Albuquerque. 492 00:14:58,331 --> 00:14:59,465 >> I know but I didn't even ask him. 493 00:14:59,465 --> 00:15:00,032 >> Yeah. 494 00:15:00,032 --> 00:15:01,534 >> That was one of those times where I'm like the one 495 00:15:01,534 --> 00:15:02,568 connection I could have had. 496 00:15:02,568 --> 00:15:03,803 >> I could have made the connection. 497 00:15:03,803 --> 00:15:04,504 >> That happens a lot. 498 00:15:04,504 --> 00:15:06,105 >> What are the economics of the show? 499 00:15:06,105 --> 00:15:08,274 So I know you have a bunch of advertisers. 500 00:15:08,274 --> 00:15:10,977 You mention the advertisers on the program. 501 00:15:10,977 --> 00:15:12,411 A lot of podcasts have advertisers. 502 00:15:12,411 --> 00:15:14,213 >> That's called advertising when you mention the advertiser. 503 00:15:14,213 --> 00:15:15,681 >> Well, but it's hard to think --. 504 00:15:15,681 --> 00:15:17,083 >> It's hard to do it without mentioning it. 505 00:15:17,083 --> 00:15:18,284 >> It is hard. 506 00:15:18,284 --> 00:15:20,453 >> Because when you think about it very hard --. 507 00:15:20,453 --> 00:15:21,454 >> And you have to read your mind. 508 00:15:21,454 --> 00:15:22,155 >> Did you guys get that? 509 00:15:22,155 --> 00:15:23,823 Stamps.com. 510 00:15:23,823 --> 00:15:26,959 >> But my point is it's hard to imagine that the revenue that 511 00:15:26,959 --> 00:15:31,097 comes in from these advertisers cover the bills. 512 00:15:31,097 --> 00:15:31,697 >> Is it? 513 00:15:31,697 --> 00:15:32,365 >> It is, yeah. 514 00:15:32,365 --> 00:15:36,135 Because, you know, traditional media have a different economic 515 00:15:36,135 --> 00:15:37,804 imperative than these --. 516 00:15:37,804 --> 00:15:39,071 >> Well, let's think about it. 517 00:15:39,071 --> 00:15:40,273 >> Come on. 518 00:15:40,273 --> 00:15:41,474 Help me understand this. 519 00:15:41,474 --> 00:15:43,676 >> Okay. So I know for a fact 520 00:15:43,676 --> 00:15:46,279 that I get about 300,000 people per episode. 521 00:15:46,279 --> 00:15:48,848 So do you think if you present those hard numbers to an 522 00:15:48,848 --> 00:15:51,317 advertiser they're going to be like, okay we'll give you $5? 523 00:15:51,317 --> 00:15:52,351 >> They're paying you enough? 524 00:15:52,351 --> 00:15:53,085 >> Yeah. 525 00:15:53,085 --> 00:15:54,821 I mean, it took time to build that. 526 00:15:54,821 --> 00:15:56,355 >> If you're making this work --. 527 00:15:56,355 --> 00:15:58,257 >> Look, you're talking to a guy that I was nervous about 528 00:15:58,257 --> 00:15:59,358 advertising. 529 00:15:59,358 --> 00:16:02,228 Like when we had one ad I was like, people are going to leave. 530 00:16:02,228 --> 00:16:05,097 We're sellouts. 531 00:16:05,097 --> 00:16:06,766 >> Let me say, you've leaned in. 532 00:16:06,766 --> 00:16:07,834 >> No, I definitely leaned in. 533 00:16:07,834 --> 00:16:11,270 Because the truth of the matter is is that, unlike radio, again, 534 00:16:11,270 --> 00:16:14,340 you don't like the ads, then don't listen to them. 535 00:16:14,340 --> 00:16:15,441 >> Well, I can always fast forward. 536 00:16:15,441 --> 00:16:16,342 >> Exactly. 537 00:16:16,342 --> 00:16:20,213 And the thing is is that I won't advertise anything that is not 538 00:16:20,213 --> 00:16:21,681 legit on some level. 539 00:16:21,681 --> 00:16:26,319 I used to not advertise things that I couldn't get into myself, 540 00:16:26,319 --> 00:16:27,486 but now I do. 541 00:16:27,486 --> 00:16:30,256 And we worked with -- well, I mean -- like I don't know 542 00:16:30,256 --> 00:16:32,592 anything about baseball but, like, if they want to --. 543 00:16:32,592 --> 00:16:35,261 >> If they want to put the baseball fantasy draft thing. 544 00:16:35,261 --> 00:16:37,830 >> If the fantasy baseball gambling racket wants me to --. 545 00:16:37,830 --> 00:16:39,799 >> Right. 546 00:16:39,799 --> 00:16:42,101 >> Who am I to deny someone their vices? 547 00:16:42,101 --> 00:16:44,570 [Laughter] 548 00:16:44,570 --> 00:16:48,140 I won't advertise liquor because I don't drink anymore and I 549 00:16:48,140 --> 00:16:51,244 can't like -- there's no way as a recovering alcoholic to go, 550 00:16:51,244 --> 00:16:53,579 like, I used to have a real good time with this stuff. 551 00:16:53,579 --> 00:16:55,147 [Laughter]. 552 00:16:55,147 --> 00:16:56,616 >> You feel free. 553 00:16:56,616 --> 00:16:57,917 I'm not going to do it. 554 00:16:57,917 --> 00:16:58,751 But knock yourself out. 555 00:16:58,751 --> 00:17:00,253 >> I hope it doesn't ruin your life. 556 00:17:00,253 --> 00:17:02,488 Enjoy. 557 00:17:02,488 --> 00:17:04,557 >> What I like about it, though, is I like your role as the 558 00:17:04,557 --> 00:17:05,324 pitchman. 559 00:17:05,324 --> 00:17:06,192 It's almost like --. 560 00:17:06,192 --> 00:17:07,793 >> I like doing -- it's old style. 561 00:17:07,793 --> 00:17:09,862 >> It's like Hank Kingsley doing "Garden Weasel" 562 00:17:09,862 --> 00:17:11,364 on "Larry Sanders," right? 563 00:17:11,364 --> 00:17:12,131 >> Kind of. 564 00:17:12,131 --> 00:17:13,099 But it's also older than that. 565 00:17:13,099 --> 00:17:14,800 It's like radio, the old radio in general. 566 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:15,601 >> Right. 567 00:17:15,601 --> 00:17:19,171 >> Most of radio, when you did terrestrial radio it was driven 568 00:17:19,171 --> 00:17:21,307 towards holding people over those ads. 569 00:17:21,307 --> 00:17:23,442 You know, that was, you know, forward momentum was all about 570 00:17:23,442 --> 00:17:24,377 that. 571 00:17:24,377 --> 00:17:26,879 Keep them here, you know, so we can get them to hold on for six 572 00:17:26,879 --> 00:17:27,947 minutes of this stuff. 573 00:17:27,947 --> 00:17:28,648 >> Yeah. 574 00:17:28,648 --> 00:17:30,049 >> We don't work with that model. 575 00:17:30,049 --> 00:17:31,550 You know, we'll drop the ads when we want to drop them. 576 00:17:31,550 --> 00:17:33,052 It's all us talking. 577 00:17:33,052 --> 00:17:35,321 We're not worried about that momentum people are in. 578 00:17:35,321 --> 00:17:37,123 Like, I remember one time I was doing an interview with some 579 00:17:37,123 --> 00:17:37,924 radio guys. 580 00:17:37,924 --> 00:17:39,892 Or, no, it wasn't an interview, someone told me. 581 00:17:39,892 --> 00:17:43,362 I don't need to mention them, but Bob and Tom up in Indiana --. 582 00:17:43,362 --> 00:17:44,664 [Laughter]. 583 00:17:44,664 --> 00:17:46,399 >> No, but someone was talking to Tom, 584 00:17:46,399 --> 00:17:48,801 I think and Tom was like, these podcasters, 585 00:17:48,801 --> 00:17:49,802 they don't know what they're doing. 586 00:17:49,802 --> 00:17:52,071 They don't even reset the guests. 587 00:17:52,071 --> 00:17:53,639 Why would we have to? 588 00:17:53,639 --> 00:17:55,308 People were listening because of them. 589 00:17:55,308 --> 00:17:57,643 Like, the reset model where you sort of like, 590 00:17:57,643 --> 00:18:00,212 we'll be right back with Marc Maron after this. 591 00:18:00,212 --> 00:18:01,147 Why would I do that? 592 00:18:01,147 --> 00:18:02,214 People download it. 593 00:18:02,214 --> 00:18:03,149 They're not just tuning in. 594 00:18:03,149 --> 00:18:03,816 >> Exactly. 595 00:18:03,816 --> 00:18:05,217 >> They don't need to be reminded who they're listening 596 00:18:05,217 --> 00:18:07,286 to unless they're morons. 597 00:18:07,286 --> 00:18:09,655 By the way, if somehow or another you forgot what we're 598 00:18:09,655 --> 00:18:13,125 doing here --. 599 00:18:13,125 --> 00:18:15,995 >> Well, you're blowing up the model, that's for sure. 600 00:18:15,995 --> 00:18:19,198 >> My point is, over time there was no business model that any 601 00:18:19,198 --> 00:18:20,466 of us had. 602 00:18:20,466 --> 00:18:22,468 None of us knew how to make money and I'm certainly grateful 603 00:18:22,468 --> 00:18:27,206 and humble, you know, and I'm not being -- you know, 604 00:18:27,206 --> 00:18:32,745 I don't want to appear like I'm being pompous or anything, 605 00:18:32,745 --> 00:18:34,447 is that the business model evolved. 606 00:18:34,447 --> 00:18:37,149 Me and my partner knew nothing about business. 607 00:18:37,149 --> 00:18:38,584 I am not a businessman, he is not either. 608 00:18:38,584 --> 00:18:41,420 You know, he was sort of a company guy-minded person and 609 00:18:41,420 --> 00:18:43,389 I'm an entertainer, whatever I do. 610 00:18:43,389 --> 00:18:44,056 >> Right. 611 00:18:44,056 --> 00:18:46,792 >> You know, I keep people listening to something. 612 00:18:46,792 --> 00:18:49,862 So, like, it wasn't business that we got into it for. 613 00:18:49,862 --> 00:18:51,597 So we didn't know how to make money. 614 00:18:51,597 --> 00:18:52,331 >> Yeah. 615 00:18:52,331 --> 00:18:54,166 >> Our first sponsor from the old days was, you know, 616 00:18:54,166 --> 00:18:55,901 Just Coffee, it was a co-op in Madison. 617 00:18:55,901 --> 00:18:57,803 And I still carry them and they don't hardly pay anything, 618 00:18:57,803 --> 00:18:59,038 it's just the loyalty thing. 619 00:18:59,038 --> 00:18:59,705 >> Nostalgia, right. 620 00:18:59,705 --> 00:19:00,539 >> Yeah. 621 00:19:00,539 --> 00:19:01,407 And I just visited their new plants. 622 00:19:01,407 --> 00:19:04,443 And by me plugging them, I helped their business. 623 00:19:04,443 --> 00:19:05,144 >> It helps. 624 00:19:05,144 --> 00:19:06,312 >> It was sort of fascinating. 625 00:19:06,312 --> 00:19:07,813 So the model just kind of evolved. 626 00:19:07,813 --> 00:19:08,914 >> Yep. 627 00:19:08,914 --> 00:19:11,917 >> And it's sort of a thrill in the sense that at some point 628 00:19:11,917 --> 00:19:14,620 both Brendan McDonald my producer and myself realized, 629 00:19:14,620 --> 00:19:17,456 we've got something we've made ourselves from the ground up. 630 00:19:17,456 --> 00:19:18,090 >> Most definitely. 631 00:19:18,090 --> 00:19:20,526 >> And I never understood what entrepreneurial sort of pride 632 00:19:20,526 --> 00:19:21,360 was. 633 00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:23,863 I'm like, we're businessmen and we've got a small business that 634 00:19:23,863 --> 00:19:24,630 we run. 635 00:19:24,630 --> 00:19:26,298 And there is something about that. 636 00:19:26,298 --> 00:19:28,901 But it's not about the weird pride or some sort of American 637 00:19:28,901 --> 00:19:31,804 work ethic or entrepreneurial spirit. 638 00:19:31,804 --> 00:19:34,907 It's like, nobody can tell us what to do. 639 00:19:34,907 --> 00:19:35,841 >> That's the best part, right? 640 00:19:35,841 --> 00:19:36,809 You built from an empty --. 641 00:19:36,809 --> 00:19:37,710 >> That's the only part. 642 00:19:37,710 --> 00:19:38,878 >> And you control it. 643 00:19:38,878 --> 00:19:39,779 >> Beautiful. 644 00:19:39,779 --> 00:19:40,913 Between you and me --. 645 00:19:40,913 --> 00:19:42,882 >> Yeah. 646 00:19:42,882 --> 00:19:44,417 Just forget about them, just tell me. 647 00:19:44,417 --> 00:19:46,252 >> And I hope it happens. 648 00:19:46,252 --> 00:19:49,622 The vice president's office called us and thought that maybe 649 00:19:49,622 --> 00:19:50,690 Biden --. 650 00:19:50,690 --> 00:19:51,390 >> Might come on? 651 00:19:51,390 --> 00:19:52,158 >> Come to the garage. 652 00:19:52,158 --> 00:19:52,992 And I'm like, really? 653 00:19:52,992 --> 00:19:56,495 >> Obama does Galifianakis, you get Biden. 654 00:19:56,495 --> 00:19:58,130 >> Right, we did that thing between two friends. 655 00:19:58,130 --> 00:20:01,367 But, like, we have these weird moments with this thing where 656 00:20:01,367 --> 00:20:04,603 I'm like, like I don't want to talk about politics and I don't 657 00:20:04,603 --> 00:20:07,773 want to, you know, I don't want to be just a policy outlet. 658 00:20:08,407 --> 00:20:09,175 That's why I got out. 659 00:20:09,942 --> 00:20:10,810 I don't talk about politics at all, 660 00:20:10,810 --> 00:20:14,013 really unless it affects me directly or I feel like I have 661 00:20:14,013 --> 00:20:16,248 to, but I won't do that thing. 662 00:20:16,248 --> 00:20:18,050 I will not be a conduit. 663 00:20:18,050 --> 00:20:22,321 So like I said, I'm not going to talk policy and do I need to go 664 00:20:22,321 --> 00:20:23,189 to him? 665 00:20:23,189 --> 00:20:26,692 And Brendan went back to the office and he comes back and 666 00:20:26,692 --> 00:20:28,360 he's like, no, he wants to come to the garage. 667 00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:30,796 I'm like, well that will be amazing. 668 00:20:30,796 --> 00:20:34,166 >> But that's kind of Biden-y isn't it, to come to the garage? 669 00:20:34,166 --> 00:20:37,136 >> But Biden-y or not, you know there's going to be 90 Secret -- 670 00:20:37,136 --> 00:20:38,504 they're going to be scanning the hillside. 671 00:20:38,504 --> 00:20:39,171 >> Oh, right. 672 00:20:39,171 --> 00:20:40,506 Well, there's that problem, right, yeah. 673 00:20:40,506 --> 00:20:41,107 >> You know, like my neighbors --. 674 00:20:41,107 --> 00:20:41,707 >> Snipers. 675 00:20:41,707 --> 00:20:42,975 >> -- what's happening? 676 00:20:42,975 --> 00:20:44,477 And I'm like, yeah, vice president's going to hang out 677 00:20:44,477 --> 00:20:45,177 for a little while. 678 00:20:45,911 --> 00:20:46,579 >> In the garage. 679 00:20:47,513 --> 00:20:49,215 >> But I don't know if it's going to happen. 680 00:20:49,215 --> 00:20:51,083 I don't know what determines that. 681 00:20:51,083 --> 00:20:53,652 >> Is this more fun for you than just doing plain old standup comedy? 682 00:20:53,652 --> 00:20:55,287 >> No, I love doing comedy. 683 00:20:55,287 --> 00:20:56,155 It's a whole different thing. 684 00:20:56,155 --> 00:20:58,557 You know, like the job of doing the podcast, 685 00:20:58,557 --> 00:21:00,226 like I need to talk to people. 686 00:21:00,226 --> 00:21:02,595 Like it becomes sort of this weird thing. 687 00:21:02,595 --> 00:21:06,198 Like I was, like, aggravated the other day and I'd been touring a 688 00:21:06,198 --> 00:21:07,967 lot and I was just like kind of losing my mind. 689 00:21:07,967 --> 00:21:10,236 And then, like, I had an interview, Zach Woods, 690 00:21:10,236 --> 00:21:12,471 who is a comedic actor. 691 00:21:12,471 --> 00:21:14,640 He's from "The Office" and from "Silicon Valley." 692 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,041 >> So like on the "Mike Judge" show, right. 693 00:21:16,041 --> 00:21:16,776 >> Right. 694 00:21:16,776 --> 00:21:17,543 >> Very good. 695 00:21:17,543 --> 00:21:18,611 >> He's a great improviser too. 696 00:21:18,611 --> 00:21:20,679 I seen him -- just by coincidence I brought my nieces 697 00:21:20,679 --> 00:21:23,849 to UCB to see him improvise with a crew. 698 00:21:23,849 --> 00:21:24,884 I didn't know he was in it. 699 00:21:24,884 --> 00:21:27,553 Well, anyways, I didn't know what I was going to talk to him 700 00:21:27,553 --> 00:21:28,754 about, but I was a fan. 701 00:21:28,754 --> 00:21:31,824 And just the act of talking to somebody else is relaxing. 702 00:21:31,824 --> 00:21:33,259 You get out of your own head and I'm kind of, you know, 703 00:21:33,259 --> 00:21:35,761 addicted to it. 704 00:21:35,761 --> 00:21:39,131 And the point is that it's a whole different thing, you know. 705 00:21:39,131 --> 00:21:41,600 Standup is something I've done my whole life. 706 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,269 It was what I did at the beginning. 707 00:21:43,269 --> 00:21:45,871 >> You started in '87 was the first time you did standup? 708 00:21:45,871 --> 00:21:49,141 >> If your research tells you that, then I'll go with that. 709 00:21:49,141 --> 00:21:50,142 >> I'm just picking a number. 710 00:21:50,142 --> 00:21:51,177 I'm picking a year out of the air. 711 00:21:51,177 --> 00:21:52,444 Roughly, right? 712 00:21:52,444 --> 00:21:53,612 >> It seems spontaneous, yeah. 713 00:21:53,612 --> 00:21:54,246 [Laughter]. 714 00:21:54,246 --> 00:21:57,583 >> Preparation, man. 715 00:21:57,583 --> 00:21:58,651 >> That's good, buddy. 716 00:21:58,651 --> 00:22:01,287 Yeah, I think it was about '87 is right. 717 00:22:01,287 --> 00:22:02,955 You know, I did it a couple of times before that. 718 00:22:02,955 --> 00:22:05,858 But I always wanted to just be a comic. 719 00:22:05,858 --> 00:22:08,460 And now finally people were coming to see me. 720 00:22:08,460 --> 00:22:10,596 A lot of people were like, well, I like his podcast, 721 00:22:10,596 --> 00:22:12,064 I don't know if he can do a standup. 722 00:22:12,064 --> 00:22:13,832 And I'm like, it's what I do. 723 00:22:13,832 --> 00:22:15,534 You know, that's always a surprise. 724 00:22:15,534 --> 00:22:17,102 Like, I didn't know how you'd be as a standup. 725 00:22:17,102 --> 00:22:19,605 It's like, I've been living on stage for half my life. 726 00:22:19,605 --> 00:22:21,640 >> Well, but you probably have people who came to the podcast 727 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,375 who really didn't know that that's what you did. 728 00:22:23,375 --> 00:22:25,611 >> Honestly most people don't know me. 729 00:22:25,611 --> 00:22:26,378 >> Yeah. 730 00:22:26,378 --> 00:22:27,980 >> Like, I think that if you were to sort of look at the 731 00:22:27,980 --> 00:22:30,549 numbers of people who know me versus who doesn't know me, 732 00:22:30,549 --> 00:22:31,850 more people don't know me. 733 00:22:31,850 --> 00:22:33,552 Which is exciting, in a way --. 734 00:22:33,552 --> 00:22:34,987 >> It's an opportunity. 735 00:22:34,987 --> 00:22:37,957 >> Well, yeah, kind of like when my show "Maron" went on to 736 00:22:37,957 --> 00:22:40,826 Netflix, you know, I'd get these Tweets and stuff like I had no 737 00:22:40,826 --> 00:22:41,694 idea who you were. 738 00:22:41,694 --> 00:22:44,029 And there's part of you that's like how could you not? 739 00:22:44,029 --> 00:22:45,064 You know, what do I got to do? 740 00:22:45,064 --> 00:22:47,800 You know, or if I'm going to a town, like, 741 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:48,968 I'll tweet a million times. 742 00:22:48,968 --> 00:22:50,269 I'll talk about it on the podcast for weeks. 743 00:22:50,269 --> 00:22:53,005 And then some idiot will be like I didn't know you were in town. 744 00:22:53,005 --> 00:22:54,373 What did you want me to do, come over? 745 00:22:54,373 --> 00:22:57,910 >> How could I have possibly worked this harder? 746 00:22:57,910 --> 00:22:59,912 >> Yeah, I don't know how to do it but I do know it's nice being 747 00:22:59,912 --> 00:23:01,113 discoverable. 748 00:23:01,113 --> 00:23:02,014 >> Right. 749 00:23:02,014 --> 00:23:03,649 >> Because, like, if you're coming to Netflix and there's 750 00:23:03,649 --> 00:23:06,285 two seasons of that specific show, which is me, 751 00:23:06,285 --> 00:23:07,686 and you're like, oh, this is great. 752 00:23:07,686 --> 00:23:09,021 It must be exciting. 753 00:23:09,021 --> 00:23:10,322 Like, I never knew that guy. 754 00:23:10,322 --> 00:23:13,692 So that's kind of -- everything's pretty good. 755 00:23:13,692 --> 00:23:16,061 >> Has the TV -- we said that the third season of the show is 756 00:23:16,061 --> 00:23:17,863 now on IFC. 757 00:23:17,863 --> 00:23:20,299 Has the TV experience been good for you? 758 00:23:20,299 --> 00:23:22,167 It's a fictionalized version. 759 00:23:22,167 --> 00:23:23,969 It's almost like a reality show based on the character. 760 00:23:23,969 --> 00:23:25,104 >> No. 761 00:23:25,104 --> 00:23:26,805 >> The character is kind of you-ish. 762 00:23:26,805 --> 00:23:28,073 >> It's not a reality show. 763 00:23:28,073 --> 00:23:30,276 It's like oh my God, my hair in Texas is a bit much. 764 00:23:30,276 --> 00:23:33,212 The humidity is really, like --. 765 00:23:33,212 --> 00:23:34,680 >> Even though it's a fictionalized version of you, 766 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,883 it is kind of like you. 767 00:23:37,883 --> 00:23:39,184 I mean, it's you, basically, right? 768 00:23:39,184 --> 00:23:40,185 The character's you. 769 00:23:40,185 --> 00:23:40,986 >> Well, it evolves as me. 770 00:23:40,986 --> 00:23:42,588 You know, some of the stories are based on me, 771 00:23:42,588 --> 00:23:44,723 but it is 22 minutes of scripted material. 772 00:23:44,723 --> 00:23:46,959 And as the seasons went on, like I don't think I was -- I knew 773 00:23:46,959 --> 00:23:49,194 that I was going to take a hit. 774 00:23:49,194 --> 00:23:51,163 You know, the first season I had never done anything like that 775 00:23:51,163 --> 00:23:53,866 before and I knew that my acting was going to be stiff. 776 00:23:53,866 --> 00:23:56,135 And, like, I just knew because I had seen other comics go through 777 00:23:56,135 --> 00:23:57,136 it. 778 00:23:57,136 --> 00:23:58,971 You know, like every comic I know who has had a TV show, 779 00:23:58,971 --> 00:24:02,241 that first season you're like, I hope he figures this out. 780 00:24:02,241 --> 00:24:03,976 >> And not all of them do. 781 00:24:03,976 --> 00:24:05,344 >> No, I know. 782 00:24:05,344 --> 00:24:07,479 But eventually they lock into something --. 783 00:24:07,479 --> 00:24:08,113 >> Right. 784 00:24:08,113 --> 00:24:09,214 >> -- that is them. 785 00:24:09,214 --> 00:24:11,383 They may not be great actors, but I did better second season. 786 00:24:11,383 --> 00:24:12,751 I think this season is even better. 787 00:24:12,751 --> 00:24:13,652 >> Yeah. 788 00:24:13,652 --> 00:24:17,056 >> But it is -- but through that creative process of writing and 789 00:24:17,056 --> 00:24:20,059 you start to realize what part of me lives up there. 790 00:24:20,059 --> 00:24:21,126 That is a character. 791 00:24:21,126 --> 00:24:22,161 >> Right. 792 00:24:22,161 --> 00:24:23,128 >> It is Marc on television. 793 00:24:23,128 --> 00:24:24,963 It is not my regular life because it's only 22 minutes. 794 00:24:24,963 --> 00:24:27,933 You know, I have another 23.5 hours during the day and they're 795 00:24:27,933 --> 00:24:31,070 not all pleasant and some of them are sadder than others. 796 00:24:31,070 --> 00:24:33,672 And a lot of times I'm not doing anything, 797 00:24:33,672 --> 00:24:34,707 which is not great television. 798 00:24:34,707 --> 00:24:35,741 >> Bad television. 799 00:24:35,741 --> 00:24:36,709 [Laughter]. 800 00:24:36,709 --> 00:24:40,379 >> So to figure out what that character is and what parts of 801 00:24:40,379 --> 00:24:41,914 me are coming out and how it works, 802 00:24:41,914 --> 00:24:46,985 like I'm a little crankier, like I think I'm a pretty sensitive, 803 00:24:46,985 --> 00:24:48,454 compassionate person. 804 00:24:48,454 --> 00:24:51,457 And I think the character's a little harder than I am, really. 805 00:24:51,457 --> 00:24:53,659 But it gets pretty dicey this season. 806 00:24:53,659 --> 00:24:58,330 Yeah, this season the undercurrent is really just sort 807 00:24:58,330 --> 00:25:00,032 of, like, what if it had gone wrong? 808 00:25:00,032 --> 00:25:03,335 Like what if I'd gotten all the opportunities I've gotten up to 809 00:25:03,335 --> 00:25:03,902 this point --. 810 00:25:03,902 --> 00:25:04,670 >> Yep. 811 00:25:04,670 --> 00:25:05,904 >> -- and I let the worst of me take over. 812 00:25:05,904 --> 00:25:07,973 So that kind of happens. 813 00:25:07,973 --> 00:25:08,640 >> It's kind of exciting. 814 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:09,608 >> It is kind of exciting. 815 00:25:09,608 --> 00:25:10,909 I just hope to God it's not prophecy. 816 00:25:10,909 --> 00:25:12,077 [Laughter]. 817 00:25:12,077 --> 00:25:13,145 >> Okay. 818 00:25:13,145 --> 00:25:14,413 Well, that's a good place to end. 819 00:25:14,413 --> 00:25:15,214 We're out of time. 820 00:25:15,214 --> 00:25:16,181 Good luck with the show. 821 00:25:16,181 --> 00:25:17,416 But, really, thanks for the podcast. 822 00:25:17,416 --> 00:25:18,283 It's just so wonderful. 823 00:25:18,283 --> 00:25:19,218 >> Thank you for having me. 824 00:25:19,218 --> 00:25:20,085 >> Marc Maron. 825 00:25:20,085 --> 00:25:20,919 Thank you very much. 826 00:25:20,919 --> 00:25:24,490 [Applause]. 827 00:25:24,490 --> 00:25:26,158 >> We'd love to have you join us in the studio. 828 00:25:26,158 --> 00:25:30,696 Visit our web at klru.org/overheard to find 829 00:25:30,696 --> 00:25:34,166 invitations to interviews, Q&As with our audience and guests, 830 00:25:34,166 --> 00:25:36,835 and an archive of past episodes. 831 00:25:36,835 --> 00:25:41,673 >> The reason I ended up doing Conan so much was I was in New 832 00:25:41,673 --> 00:25:46,412 York and sometimes someone would cancel, like at the last minute. 833 00:25:46,412 --> 00:25:47,980 So Paula, the booker over there, she'd be like, 834 00:25:47,980 --> 00:25:49,281 do you have anything? 835 00:25:49,281 --> 00:25:50,749 And I'm like, well, I've got a few things that aren't quite -- 836 00:25:50,749 --> 00:25:52,084 yeah, I could probably make them work. 837 00:25:52,084 --> 00:25:53,552 And she's like, all right, good, help us. 838 00:25:53,552 --> 00:25:57,489 So I would go on Conan and do bits that later became better 839 00:25:57,489 --> 00:25:58,457 jokes. 840 00:25:58,457 --> 00:26:00,359 Like, I would try them out on Conan. 841 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:10,436 >> Pretty good. 842 00:26:10,436 --> 00:26:13,372 >> Funding for "Overheard" with Evan Smith is provided in part 843 00:26:13,372 --> 00:26:17,509 by MFI Foundation, improving the quality of life within our 844 00:26:17,509 --> 00:26:19,211 community. 845 00:26:19,211 --> 00:26:22,080 And from the Texas Board of Legal Specialization, 846 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,716 board certified attorneys in your community. 847 00:26:24,716 --> 00:26:27,286 Experienced, respected, and tested. 848 00:26:27,286 --> 00:26:30,622 Also by Hillco Partners, Texas Government Affairs consultancy 849 00:26:30,622 --> 00:26:34,460 and its global healthcare consulting business unit, 850 00:26:34,460 --> 00:26:35,994 Hillco Health. 851 00:26:35,994 --> 00:26:39,031 And by the Alice Kleberg Reynolds Foundation. 852 00:26:39,031 --> 00:26:40,499 And viewers like you. 853 00:26:40,499 --> 00:26:42,267 Thank you.