1 00:00:00,233 --> 00:00:02,736 >> FUNDING FOR OVERHEARD WITH EVAN SMITH IS 2 00:00:02,736 --> 00:00:05,605 provided in part by Hillco Partners, 3 00:00:05,605 --> 00:00:08,708 Texas Government affairs consultancy and its global 4 00:00:08,708 --> 00:00:12,312 healthcare consulting business unit HILLCO HEALTH, 5 00:00:12,312 --> 00:00:15,849 and by the MATTSSON MCHALE Foundation in support of public 6 00:00:15,849 --> 00:00:19,786 television AND ALSO BY MFI FOUNDATION, 7 00:00:19,786 --> 00:00:23,923 IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY AND ALSO BY 8 00:00:23,923 --> 00:00:25,191 THE ALICE KLEBURG REYNOLDS. 9 00:00:25,191 --> 00:00:28,228 FOUNDATION AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU. 10 00:00:28,228 --> 00:00:29,896 Thank you. 11 00:00:29,896 --> 00:00:30,897 >> I'M EVAN SMITH. 12 00:00:30,897 --> 00:00:33,900 He's a veteran magazine writer and radio personality whose 13 00:00:33,900 --> 00:00:35,602 BIOGRAPHIES of STEVIE RAY VAUGHN, 14 00:00:35,602 --> 00:00:39,172 SELENA AND WILLIE NELSON are the standard by which all others are 15 00:00:39,172 --> 00:00:40,173 measured. 16 00:00:40,173 --> 00:00:42,242 HIS LATEST BOOK, THE DALLAS COWBOYS, 17 00:00:42,242 --> 00:00:44,944 the outrageous history of the BIGGEST, LOUDEST, 18 00:00:44,944 --> 00:00:48,415 MOST HATED best loved FOOTBALL TEAM in America has just been 19 00:00:48,415 --> 00:00:49,416 published. 20 00:00:49,416 --> 00:00:50,784 HE'S JOE Nick Patoski. 21 00:00:50,784 --> 00:00:54,788 THIS IS OVERHEARD. 22 00:00:54,788 --> 00:00:58,591 >> We have 15 million kids who grow up in our country who grow 23 00:00:58,591 --> 00:00:59,592 up below the poverty line. 24 00:00:59,592 --> 00:01:00,960 MOST AMERICANS WANT A GOOD the same thing. 25 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:02,028 They want a good JOB. 26 00:01:02,028 --> 00:01:04,030 >> I realized there weren't a lot of OF PEOPLE WRITING THINGS 27 00:01:04,030 --> 00:01:06,933 IN MY VOICE So I REALIZED I HAD TO DO IT FOR MYSELF >> and HE 28 00:01:06,933 --> 00:01:08,201 SAID KID, I LOVE YOU BECAUSE... 29 00:01:08,201 --> 00:01:10,437 >> WE'RE A BETTER COUNTRY THAN WE USED TO be But WE HAVE MORE 30 00:01:10,437 --> 00:01:11,604 TO DO, and WE NEED TO GET AT IT. 31 00:01:11,604 --> 00:01:19,279 >> I WOULD do that when I wanted to get That buzz YOU GET FOR 32 00:01:19,279 --> 00:01:24,084 WORKING AT THE ABSOLUTE TOP DOLLAR. 33 00:01:24,084 --> 00:01:25,385 [LAUGHTER] >> JOE NICK, WELCOME. 34 00:01:25,385 --> 00:01:26,386 >> Thank you, evan. 35 00:01:26,386 --> 00:01:27,387 >> Good to see you. 36 00:01:27,387 --> 00:01:28,388 CONGRATULATIONS ON this BOOK. 37 00:01:28,388 --> 00:01:31,424 I MAY GET INTO SHAPE BY LIFTINg weights with it, actually. 38 00:01:31,424 --> 00:01:33,326 >> IT MAKES A GREAT DOOR STOP. 39 00:01:33,326 --> 00:01:34,294 >> it will. 40 00:01:34,294 --> 00:01:35,295 MOST HATED? 41 00:01:35,295 --> 00:01:36,696 REALLY? 42 00:01:36,696 --> 00:01:37,697 >> Absolutely. 43 00:01:37,697 --> 00:01:38,898 >> YOU WANT TO DEFEND THAT TO ME? 44 00:01:38,898 --> 00:01:39,899 Defend that to me. 45 00:01:39,899 --> 00:01:40,900 >> There's NO NEED TO even DEFEND. 46 00:01:40,900 --> 00:01:43,436 I mean, THE FIGURES SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. 47 00:01:43,436 --> 00:01:48,074 THEY ARE MOST EASILY THE MOST HATED FRANCHISE in the NFL. 48 00:01:48,074 --> 00:01:49,442 >> HOW DO YOU quantify THAT? 49 00:01:49,442 --> 00:01:52,045 >> Well, let's -- let's GO with the individuals, 50 00:01:52,045 --> 00:01:54,681 the owners -- owner FIRST, JERRY JONES. 51 00:01:54,681 --> 00:01:59,686 WHEN I WAS WORKING ON THIS A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, 52 00:01:59,686 --> 00:02:02,455 THEY actually DID A POLL ON who are THE MOST HATED SPORTS 53 00:02:02,455 --> 00:02:04,057 FIGURES out there and they -- >> SPORTS FIGURE, 54 00:02:04,057 --> 00:02:05,992 NOT just FOOTBALL? 55 00:02:05,992 --> 00:02:06,993 Sports figures. 56 00:02:06,993 --> 00:02:07,994 >> but THEY WERE ALL NFL figures. 57 00:02:07,994 --> 00:02:11,398 NUMBER ONE Was AL DAVIS, NUMBER TWO was MICHAEL VICK AND number 58 00:02:11,398 --> 00:02:13,366 three was JERRY JONES. 59 00:02:13,366 --> 00:02:14,668 AL DAVIS IS DEAD. 60 00:02:14,668 --> 00:02:18,371 MICHAEL VICK STARTED PLAYING WELL AND is MUCH-BELOVED IN 61 00:02:18,371 --> 00:02:19,606 PHILLY NOW. 62 00:02:19,606 --> 00:02:21,274 >> somewhat REHABILITATED, right. 63 00:02:21,274 --> 00:02:25,412 >> so it's -- it's -- it has ever been thus. 64 00:02:25,412 --> 00:02:29,516 GOING BACK TO 1978 WHEN NFL FILMS DUBBED THE COWBOYS 65 00:02:29,516 --> 00:02:32,819 AMERICA'S TEAM, IMMEDIATELY THEY WERE THE MOST HATED. 66 00:02:32,819 --> 00:02:37,390 YOU NEVER SAW REACTION ARTICLES WRITTEN LIKE you did by Lee 67 00:02:37,390 --> 00:02:40,260 Montville, for instace, of THE "BOSTON GLOBE." 68 00:02:40,260 --> 00:02:43,163 Who just went to town Jim Murray, 69 00:02:43,163 --> 00:02:46,666 the LA Times people reacted because they didn't like the 70 00:02:46,666 --> 00:02:50,003 arrogance of the cowboys and and how could they call themselve's 71 00:02:50,003 --> 00:02:51,004 America's team. 72 00:02:51,004 --> 00:02:53,006 >> SO IT WAS THE TEAM, it wasn't TEXAS THEY HATED, 73 00:02:53,006 --> 00:02:54,441 BUT it was THE COWBOYS themselves? 74 00:02:54,441 --> 00:02:57,477 >> No, but it was -- IT WAS DEFINITELY THIS fRANCHISe. 75 00:02:57,477 --> 00:03:02,582 And TEXAS HAS ALWAYS HAD kind of A REACTION SIMILARLY. 76 00:03:02,582 --> 00:03:06,186 TEXANS ARE a loud boisterous people. 77 00:03:06,186 --> 00:03:07,220 >> Right. 78 00:03:07,220 --> 00:03:08,521 >> They're NOT SHY. 79 00:03:08,521 --> 00:03:10,890 They're not introverted. 80 00:03:10,890 --> 00:03:12,759 And I think that rubs a lot of people the wrong way. 81 00:03:12,759 --> 00:03:15,095 >> and yet THE HOUSTON OILERS WERE NEVER AS CONTROVERSIAL a 82 00:03:15,095 --> 00:03:16,963 franchise, the houston texans aren't now. 83 00:03:16,963 --> 00:03:18,832 There was something specific to this team. 84 00:03:18,832 --> 00:03:23,103 There's something ironic today that if we're looking at this in 85 00:03:23,103 --> 00:03:25,205 2012. 86 00:03:25,205 --> 00:03:29,409 THE HOUSTON TEXANS ARE a FAR SUPERIOR football TEAM. 87 00:03:29,409 --> 00:03:31,544 >> THEY'RE AN ACTUAL TEAM. 88 00:03:31,544 --> 00:03:34,214 >> PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT THEM GOING all the way TO THE SUPER 89 00:03:34,214 --> 00:03:35,215 BOWL. 90 00:03:35,215 --> 00:03:36,216 >> Right. 91 00:03:36,216 --> 00:03:38,118 >> THEIR FAN BASE MAY TRICKLE OVER ACROSS THE SABINE RIVER AND 92 00:03:38,118 --> 00:03:41,021 INTO PARTS OF LOUISIANA, JUST RIGHT. 93 00:03:41,021 --> 00:03:42,022 ACROSS. 94 00:03:42,022 --> 00:03:43,023 >> Right. 95 00:03:43,023 --> 00:03:44,491 >> And I DON'T THINK IT GETS FARTHER NORTH THAN MONTGOMERY 96 00:03:44,491 --> 00:03:46,559 COUNTY. 97 00:03:46,559 --> 00:03:50,296 [laughter] They just don't MATTER Unless you're IN HOUSTON. 98 00:03:50,296 --> 00:03:53,967 >> BUT of course the cowboys have been for the last couple of 99 00:03:53,967 --> 00:03:54,968 years, at least, Such an inCONSEQUENTIAL TEAM playoff 100 00:03:54,968 --> 00:03:56,936 time THAT YOU WONDER is it even worth hating THEM. 101 00:03:56,936 --> 00:04:02,342 >> THIS YEAR, in August, THE NFL RELEASED A SURVEY, 102 00:04:02,342 --> 00:04:05,645 THE MOST POPULAR TEAM IN National FOOTBALL LEAGUE ARE THE 103 00:04:05,645 --> 00:04:07,313 DALLAS COWBOYS. 104 00:04:07,313 --> 00:04:13,186 And THIS IS DESPITE A RECORD THAT'S ABOUT 500 OVER THE LAST 105 00:04:13,186 --> 00:04:14,688 18 YEARS Or so. 106 00:04:14,688 --> 00:04:15,689 >> Yeah. 107 00:04:15,689 --> 00:04:16,956 I MEAN, THEY'RE NOT A VERY GOOD team. 108 00:04:16,956 --> 00:04:19,092 >> so we go from MOST HATED TO BEST-LOVED AND YOU just 109 00:04:19,092 --> 00:04:20,593 QUANTIFIED THE BEST-LOVED PART. 110 00:04:20,593 --> 00:04:21,594 >> YES. 111 00:04:21,594 --> 00:04:24,464 And I mean, THE THING IS, THIS Has been consistent and this -- 112 00:04:24,464 --> 00:04:26,766 THE FACT THAT THEY'RE EVEN IN THIS DISCUSSION, 113 00:04:26,766 --> 00:04:29,002 WHETHER THEY'RE THE MOST HATED, BEST-LOVED. 114 00:04:29,002 --> 00:04:31,538 I SAY THEY'RE BOTH, AND THEY ARE BOTH, 115 00:04:31,538 --> 00:04:35,842 IS REALLY A TRIBUTE TO THE LEGACY OF THE FRANCHISE, 116 00:04:35,842 --> 00:04:41,981 THE MARKETING, AND JUST THE OVERALL FRONT OFFICE BRILLIANCE 117 00:04:41,981 --> 00:04:43,383 THAT IS STILL CARRYING THROUGH today. 118 00:04:43,383 --> 00:04:45,885 >> but goes BACK from the -- ALL BACK way back TO THE FOUNDING 119 00:04:45,885 --> 00:04:48,588 AND goes all the way UP THROUGH AND INCLUDING JERRY JONES WHO IS 120 00:04:48,588 --> 00:04:51,424 RAPPING IN DORITOS COMMERCIALS, WHATEVER it is HE IS DOING. 121 00:04:51,424 --> 00:04:54,160 JERRY JONES AS A BRAND HIMSELF. 122 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:55,595 IS PART OF THE STORY. 123 00:04:55,595 --> 00:04:58,598 >> "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE CALLS THe DALLAS COWBOYS, 124 00:04:58,598 --> 00:05:02,635 once again IN 2012, THE VALUABLE FRANCHISE IN AMERICAN 125 00:05:02,635 --> 00:05:03,603 SPORTS. 126 00:05:03,603 --> 00:05:05,305 REALLY, MY JOB WAS TO EXPLAIN. 127 00:05:05,305 --> 00:05:06,306 WHY. 128 00:05:06,306 --> 00:05:13,046 And YOU GO BACK TO 1960 WHEN NOT ONE, 129 00:05:13,046 --> 00:05:16,916 BUT TWO SONS OF TWO OF THE RICHEST MEN ON EARTH. 130 00:05:16,916 --> 00:05:19,586 And that would be two of the big four of texas oil, H.L. 131 00:05:19,586 --> 00:05:25,125 HUnT AND CLINT Murchison, Sr. TWO OF THEir SONS HAD SUCH 132 00:05:25,125 --> 00:05:28,261 Intense FOOTBALL JONES that THEY BOTH STARTED. 133 00:05:28,261 --> 00:05:31,631 FOOTBALL TEAMS -- professional football teams IN DALLAS, TEXAS, 134 00:05:31,631 --> 00:05:33,767 the same year, 1960. 135 00:05:33,767 --> 00:05:37,837 THAT IS ONE REASON WHY THEY ARE THE MOST VALUABLE FRANCHISE IN 136 00:05:37,837 --> 00:05:39,272 AMERICAN SPORTS TODAY. 137 00:05:39,272 --> 00:05:42,442 THAT's THE CREATION OF THE FIRST REGIME. 138 00:05:42,442 --> 00:05:43,743 THE SECOND REGIME, WHICH IS. 139 00:05:43,743 --> 00:05:46,312 DEFINED BY JERRY JONES OWNERSHIP, 140 00:05:46,312 --> 00:05:51,184 IS THE BRILLIANCE THERE IS THE TEAM HASN'T -- THEY CAME AND WON 141 00:05:51,184 --> 00:05:54,587 SUPERBOWLS -- THREE SUPERBOWLS IN FOUR YEARS. 142 00:05:54,587 --> 00:05:56,156 OFF THE CHARTS. 143 00:05:56,156 --> 00:06:00,260 And THEN EVER SINCE, EVER SINCE JERRY JONES AND JIMMIE JOHNSON. 144 00:06:00,260 --> 00:06:01,728 DIVORCED -- [LAUGHTER]. 145 00:06:01,728 --> 00:06:06,433 -- THE TEAM HAS BEEN LOUSY. 146 00:06:06,433 --> 00:06:10,904 WHAT JERRY JONES HAS DONE -- his brilliance has been To MONETIZE 147 00:06:10,904 --> 00:06:14,607 THE FRANCHISE AS THE LEAGUE HAS BEEN MONETIZED. 148 00:06:14,607 --> 00:06:20,780 And THE LEAGUE TODAY IS NOT JUST THE PREMIER SPORTS LEAGUE IN THE 149 00:06:20,780 --> 00:06:24,084 UNITED STATES, IT IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST ENTERTAINMENT companies 150 00:06:24,084 --> 00:06:25,085 IN THE WORLD. 151 00:06:25,085 --> 00:06:27,454 >> so IT IS TICKETS, but it's corporate sponsorship and 152 00:06:27,454 --> 00:06:28,822 UNDERWRITING and PARTNERSHIPS. 153 00:06:28,822 --> 00:06:29,956 It's TV. 154 00:06:29,956 --> 00:06:33,493 It's ALL THE THINGS THAT NOW GO INTO THE REVENUE STREAMS OF A 155 00:06:33,493 --> 00:06:38,431 MODERN SPORTS FRANCHISE, BUT ON STEROIDS in the case of THE 156 00:06:38,431 --> 00:06:41,868 COWBOYS? 157 00:06:41,868 --> 00:06:42,869 >> Absolutely. 158 00:06:42,869 --> 00:06:44,604 WITH THE COWBOYS, YES, THERE I A FOOTBALL TEAM AT THE CENTER OF 159 00:06:44,604 --> 00:06:45,605 all THIS. 160 00:06:45,605 --> 00:06:47,707 And really I think -- >> It's all the other stuff >> -- if 161 00:06:47,707 --> 00:06:49,809 you follow sports, really how YOUR TEAM DOES IS WHAT IS 162 00:06:49,809 --> 00:06:50,810 IMPORTANT. 163 00:06:50,810 --> 00:06:52,245 And UNFORTUNATELY FOR DALLAS FANS THEY HAVE TO TAKE PRIDE IN, 164 00:06:52,245 --> 00:06:56,216 WELL, You know, WE'RE THE MOST TELEVISED TEAM IN THE NFL. 165 00:06:56,216 --> 00:07:00,053 In 18 OF THE TOP 20 PROGRAMS IN THE UNITED STATES, 166 00:07:00,053 --> 00:07:04,724 IN 2011 WERE NFL GAMES, MOST OF THEM WITH THE DALLAS COWBOYS 167 00:07:04,724 --> 00:07:05,725 INVOLVED. 168 00:07:05,725 --> 00:07:07,394 SO IT IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF PLAYER PRIDE. 169 00:07:07,394 --> 00:07:10,430 BUT IT IS A LOT TO BE PROUD OF. 170 00:07:10,430 --> 00:07:14,267 THEY ARE STILL TOPIC A OF THE CONVERSATION IN THE NFL. 171 00:07:14,267 --> 00:07:17,037 >> IS THERE A COUNTERINTUITIVE ARGUMENT TO BE MADE IN FAVOR OF 172 00:07:17,037 --> 00:07:18,038 JERRY JONES? 173 00:07:18,038 --> 00:07:22,776 IT seems EASY TO PICK ON JERRY JONES as a baffoon, a roob, 174 00:07:22,776 --> 00:07:26,312 this GUY FROM ARKANSAS has come down, has NEVER actually FIT IN. 175 00:07:26,312 --> 00:07:28,448 But YOU HAVE TO at some point GIVE HIM CREDIT, 176 00:07:28,448 --> 00:07:30,817 because WHETHER THE TEAM has been SUCCESSFUL OR NOT, 177 00:07:30,817 --> 00:07:34,020 HE TRANSCENDS THE STEREOTYPE IN terms of how he's run this 178 00:07:34,020 --> 00:07:35,021 business. 179 00:07:35,021 --> 00:07:36,856 If you're just LOOKING AT it as a BUSINESS. 180 00:07:36,856 --> 00:07:40,460 >> JERRY JONES HAS A LOT TO OFFER, I THINK, 181 00:07:40,460 --> 00:07:43,196 as LOOKING AT HIM AS A CHARACTER. 182 00:07:43,196 --> 00:07:45,265 AND A PUBLIC FIGURE. 183 00:07:45,265 --> 00:07:47,600 And IF YOU ARE A FAN OF THE FIRST REGIME. 184 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,137 IF YOU -- if you FOLLOWED THE COWBOYS WHEN TOM LANDRY WAS THE 185 00:07:51,137 --> 00:07:53,473 COACH, WHEN TEX SCHRAMM WAS THE GENERAL. 186 00:07:53,473 --> 00:07:57,477 MANAGER AND PRESIDENT, YOU PROBABLY STILL HAVE A HARD TIME 187 00:07:57,477 --> 00:08:00,113 ACCEPTING THIS GUY FROM ARKANSAS. 188 00:08:00,113 --> 00:08:02,082 And that to me FASCINATES ME. 189 00:08:02,082 --> 00:08:05,085 I WAS just LOOKING AT DISCUSSION threads YESTERDAY, 190 00:08:05,085 --> 00:08:07,287 and FANS WILL always BRING THAT UP. 191 00:08:07,287 --> 00:08:08,455 He's AN INTERLOPER. 192 00:08:08,455 --> 00:08:09,456 LOOK WHAT HE DID. 193 00:08:09,456 --> 00:08:12,592 HE DID NOT RESPECT THE LEGACY OF THIS FRANCHISE. 194 00:08:12,592 --> 00:08:16,663 But what I cam around to recognize is how HE HAS KEPT 195 00:08:16,663 --> 00:08:19,666 THIS TEAM THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, 196 00:08:19,666 --> 00:08:21,668 EVEN WHEN The team HASN'T DONE WELL. 197 00:08:21,668 --> 00:08:23,603 And how HE'S ADDED VALUE. 198 00:08:23,603 --> 00:08:28,241 And certainly THERE IS NO OTHER CELEBRITY OWNER IN SPORTS. 199 00:08:28,241 --> 00:08:32,278 THE ONLY PERSON TO COMPARE WITH JERRY JONES WAS GEORGE 200 00:08:32,278 --> 00:08:33,279 STEINBRENNER. 201 00:08:33,279 --> 00:08:36,383 >> AND HE IS GONE. 202 00:08:36,383 --> 00:08:38,418 >> RIGHT. 203 00:08:38,418 --> 00:08:43,456 >> HE HAS KEPT THEM RELEVANT. 204 00:08:43,456 --> 00:08:49,462 THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG IF YOU FOLLOW FOOTBALL AND THE COWBOYS. 205 00:08:52,532 --> 00:08:56,803 ARE YOUR TEAM, WHEN THE BEST-KNOWN PERSON ON YOUR 206 00:08:56,803 --> 00:08:59,406 FOOTBALL CLUB IS THE OWNER AND IT IS NOT A PLAYER. 207 00:08:59,406 --> 00:09:02,108 >> ALTHOUGH, YOU HAVE TO CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG ABOUT THIS. 208 00:09:02,108 --> 00:09:05,045 ISN'T IT TRUE TO TONY ROMO'S MERCHANDISE, 209 00:09:05,045 --> 00:09:08,415 AT ONE POINT THAT WAS THE MOST SUCCESSFUL MERCHANDISE FEATURING 210 00:09:08,415 --> 00:09:10,917 ANY PLAYER'S NAME OR NUMBER IN THE NFL FOR A WHILE. 211 00:09:10,917 --> 00:09:12,952 >> I DON'T KNOW THAT. 212 00:09:12,952 --> 00:09:19,259 I DIDN'T SEE THAT FIGURE TONY ROMO IS A GREAT STORY RIGHT 213 00:09:19,259 --> 00:09:20,260 THERE. 214 00:09:20,260 --> 00:09:21,795 HE'S PROBABLY THE BEST-KNOWN PLAYER, 215 00:09:21,795 --> 00:09:26,700 THE QUARTERBACK OF THE TEAM, HE HAS A LOT OF CHARISMA I THINK, 216 00:09:26,700 --> 00:09:30,003 AND HE'S VERY STAR-CROSSED. 217 00:09:30,003 --> 00:09:36,843 TO WATCH THIS TEAM TODAY IS A REALLY DIFFICULT ENTERPRISE. 218 00:09:36,843 --> 00:09:42,849 >> YOU DON'T PUT HIM IN THE SAME CATEGORY OF AIKMAN OR STAUBACH? 219 00:09:51,491 --> 00:09:52,492 >> NO. 220 00:09:52,492 --> 00:09:54,561 IN MY MIND THERE ARE THREE GREAT QUARTERBACK IN THE HISTORY OF 221 00:09:54,561 --> 00:09:56,863 THE COWBOY FRANCHISE, DON MEREDITH, ROGER STAUBACH, 222 00:09:56,863 --> 00:09:57,864 AND TROY AIKMAN. 223 00:09:57,864 --> 00:10:00,800 AIKMAN AND STAUBACH BECAUSE OF WINNING THE SUPER BOWLS, 224 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:05,038 BUT MEREDITH SOLD THIS FRANCHISE TO THE CITY OF DALLAS, 225 00:10:05,038 --> 00:10:10,243 AND SOLD THE TEAM TO THE REST OF THE NFL AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, 226 00:10:10,243 --> 00:10:13,947 THIS IS WHERE I TALKED A LOT ABOUT MEDIA IN THIS. 227 00:10:13,947 --> 00:10:17,584 THE FACT THAT MEREDITH WENT FROM BEING THE QUARTERBACK OF THE 228 00:10:17,584 --> 00:10:21,988 DALLAS COWBOYS TO ONE OF THE FOUNDING HOSTS OF MONDAY NIGHT 229 00:10:21,988 --> 00:10:22,989 FOOTBALL. 230 00:10:22,989 --> 00:10:23,990 >> DANDY DON. 231 00:10:23,990 --> 00:10:26,993 EVERY TIME DANDY DON OPENED HIS MOUTH, 232 00:10:26,993 --> 00:10:31,464 HE WAS SELLING THE DALLAS COWBOYS WITH HIS ACCENT. 233 00:10:31,464 --> 00:10:33,767 HE WAS WHO HE IS. 234 00:10:33,767 --> 00:10:38,405 YOU GOT TO UNDERSTAND, YOU CAN'T DISCOUNT MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL 235 00:10:38,405 --> 00:10:41,241 FOR WHAT IT WAS THIS WAS BEFORE CABLE TELEVISION. 236 00:10:41,241 --> 00:10:45,345 >> YEAH >> THIS WAS THE LAST TIME THE NATION GATHERED AROUND 237 00:10:45,345 --> 00:10:49,215 THE ELECTRONIC CAMP FIRE EVERY WEEK IT WAS ON MONDAY NIGHT. 238 00:10:49,215 --> 00:10:52,919 AND TUESDAY MORNING, IF YOU WENT TO WORK, IF YOU WENT TO SCHOOL. 239 00:10:52,919 --> 00:10:54,421 EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T FOLLOW FOOTBALL, 240 00:10:54,421 --> 00:10:56,456 YOU HAD TO FAKE IT AND SOMETHING ABOUT MONDAY NIGHT 241 00:10:56,456 --> 00:10:57,457 FOOTBALL. 242 00:10:57,457 --> 00:11:00,694 >> SO MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL AS A FRANCHISE AND MEREDITH AFTER HIS 243 00:11:00,694 --> 00:11:04,264 PLAYING DAYS WERE OVER WERE AS MUCH A MYTH AND LEGEND TO THE 244 00:11:04,264 --> 00:11:05,265 COWBOYS? 245 00:11:05,265 --> 00:11:11,271 >> I FIGURED THIS OUT, TWO GREAT SALESMEN ASSOCIATED WITH THIS 246 00:11:14,407 --> 00:11:15,442 FRANCHISE. 247 00:11:15,442 --> 00:11:19,579 ONE IS DON MEREDITH WHO LEARNED AT A YOUNG AGE TO GREET. 248 00:11:19,579 --> 00:11:26,086 CUSTOMERS IN HIS PARENT'S STORE AND JERRY JONES WHO GREW UP 249 00:11:26,086 --> 00:11:32,092 WORKING IN HIS PARENTS' RESTAURANT AND GREETED CUSTOMERS 250 00:11:35,495 --> 00:11:37,397 JERRY JONES' DAD WAS A SHOWMAN. 251 00:11:37,397 --> 00:11:43,703 HE IS BROUGHT UP DOING WHAT HE WAS TAUGHT TO DO AND DOING IT 252 00:11:43,703 --> 00:11:44,704 EFFECTIVELY. 253 00:11:44,704 --> 00:11:47,874 >> COME BACK TO ROMO ASSUMI MEREDITH, STAUBACH, 254 00:11:47,874 --> 00:11:49,743 AIKMAN IS SO SUPERLATIVE. 255 00:11:49,743 --> 00:11:54,848 HE'S NO GARY HOGEBOOM HE IS A FLY-BY GUY THAT WAS. 256 00:11:54,848 --> 00:12:02,155 ON THERE -- >> ROMO IS REALLY GOOD BUT YOU GOT TO WIN PLAYOFF 257 00:12:02,155 --> 00:12:04,958 GAMES, ONE BUT ACTUALLY, THE QUARTERBACK WITH THE BETTER 258 00:12:04,958 --> 00:12:09,963 STATS IS DANNY WHITE, WHO UNFORTUNATELY, 259 00:12:09,963 --> 00:12:16,069 TRIED TO FOLLOW -- >> FORGOTTEN IN HISTORY. 260 00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:22,676 >> HAD TO FOLLOW ROGER STAUBACH THEY CAME VERY CLOSE, 261 00:12:22,676 --> 00:12:27,347 THE FIRST TWO YEARS THAT THE TEAM -- HE WAS RUNNING THE TEAM, 262 00:12:27,347 --> 00:12:30,083 YOU KNOW THEY WENT TO THE CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP. 263 00:12:30,083 --> 00:12:31,484 >> FOOTBALL HAS OBVIOUSLY CHANGED. 264 00:12:31,484 --> 00:12:34,721 THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THE GAMES OF FOOTBALL ARE THE SAME 265 00:12:34,721 --> 00:12:35,722 FUNDAMENTALS. 266 00:12:35,722 --> 00:12:36,890 THROW THE BALL, RUN THE BALL. 267 00:12:36,890 --> 00:12:39,059 CATCH THE BALL, KICK THE BALL. 268 00:12:39,059 --> 00:12:43,463 THE CIRCUMSTANCE THAT HAS GROWN-UP AROUND IT IS VASTLY 269 00:12:43,463 --> 00:12:44,464 DIFFERENT. 270 00:12:44,464 --> 00:12:48,935 HOW HAS THAT IMPACTED THE TEAM BEYOND MAKING IT SUCCESSFUL 271 00:12:48,935 --> 00:12:49,936 FINANCIALLY. 272 00:12:49,936 --> 00:12:55,408 >> YOU LOOK AT THE 1960S WITH THE COWBOYS AND THE OILERS 273 00:12:55,408 --> 00:12:56,543 STARTED UP. 274 00:12:56,543 --> 00:12:59,979 THE NFL DIDN'T HAVE A LEAGUE-WIDE TELEVISION CONTRACT. 275 00:12:59,979 --> 00:13:01,414 EVERY TEAM MADE THEIR TELEVISION. 276 00:13:01,414 --> 00:13:03,149 DEAL. 277 00:13:03,149 --> 00:13:05,185 THERE WASN'T A LOT GOING ON ONE TEAM. 278 00:13:05,185 --> 00:13:08,188 THE BALTIMORE COLTS HAD A CHEERLEADER. 279 00:13:08,188 --> 00:13:13,760 THE WASHINGTON TEAM HAD A BAND AND A LOT OF SPIRIT. 280 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,831 THERE WAS NOT MUCH MORE GOING ON OTHER THAN A GAME. 281 00:13:17,831 --> 00:13:23,970 AS TELEVISION LATCHED ON TO THE NFL AND REALLY TELEVISED IT, 282 00:13:23,970 --> 00:13:29,075 AS THE AFL, THEY WERE THE FIRST LEAGUE WITH A TELEVISIONWIDE 283 00:13:29,075 --> 00:13:32,746 CONTRACT, THEY WERE THE FIRST LEAGUE TO BROADCAST IN COLOR. 284 00:13:32,746 --> 00:13:36,149 THEY WERE THE FIRST LEAGUE WITH MULTIPLE CAMERA SHOTS. 285 00:13:36,149 --> 00:13:39,552 BY THE TIME THEY MERGED WHEN LAMAR HUNT AND TEX SCHRAMM HAD 286 00:13:39,552 --> 00:13:44,057 SECRET MEETINGS, IT IS THE DALLAS PRINCIPALS AGAIN. 287 00:13:44,057 --> 00:13:47,327 THEY CREATED THE MERGER OF THE NFL AND THE AFL. 288 00:13:49,429 --> 00:13:52,432 WHEN THAT HAPPENED THE DALLAS COWBOYS WERE SITTING IN THE 289 00:13:52,432 --> 00:13:53,433 CAMPERS. 290 00:13:53,433 --> 00:13:59,406 ALL OF THIS HAPPENED, WHETHER IT WAS THE MULTIPLE CAMERAS 291 00:13:59,406 --> 00:14:00,407 CHEERLEADERS. 292 00:14:00,407 --> 00:14:07,113 NO ONE SOLD CHEERLEADERS AND PAGEANTRY LIKE THE DALLAS. 293 00:14:07,113 --> 00:14:08,114 COWBOYS. 294 00:14:08,114 --> 00:14:10,250 >> NO TEAM -- MAYBE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE LAKER GIRLS, 295 00:14:10,250 --> 00:14:14,621 NO TEAM WITH THE -- >> EVAN, IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSe THE LAKER 296 00:14:14,621 --> 00:14:21,361 GIRLS, THEY DIDN'T HAVE THEIR OWN -- NOT ONE, 297 00:14:21,361 --> 00:14:25,365 BUT TWO MADE FOR TV MOVIES, WHICH WAS A NEW CONCEPT IN THE 298 00:14:25,365 --> 00:14:26,366 LATE 70S. 299 00:14:26,366 --> 00:14:29,969 THE FIRST DALLAS COWBOY CHEERLEADER MOVIE BECAME THE 300 00:14:29,969 --> 00:14:34,307 HIGHEST RATED MADE FOR TELEVISION FILM EVER UNTIL THE 301 00:14:34,307 --> 00:14:36,476 LATE '80S, '90S. 302 00:14:36,476 --> 00:14:40,880 >> AND THEN MORE RECENTLY THE STADIUM ARMS RACE. 303 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:45,585 LOOK WHAT JERRY BUILT UP THERE FOR THE NEW COWBOY STADIUM. 304 00:14:45,585 --> 00:14:50,757 >> JERRY HAS BUILT THE MOST FABULOUS FOOTBALL PALACE THAT 305 00:14:50,757 --> 00:14:52,492 WILL EVER EXIST. 306 00:14:52,492 --> 00:14:57,097 A PALACE THAT TRANSCENDS THE DALLAS COWBOYS. 307 00:14:57,097 --> 00:14:58,832 >> A BILLION Four. 308 00:14:58,832 --> 00:15:01,701 TAXPAYERS THROUGH IN 350 MILLION. 309 00:15:01,701 --> 00:15:05,171 DIDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. 310 00:15:05,171 --> 00:15:08,641 NOW IT IS A MULTIPLE FACILITY. 311 00:15:08,641 --> 00:15:13,246 THAT IS GOING FOR ALL THE DIFFERENT EVENTS. 312 00:15:13,246 --> 00:15:20,954 IN A WAY, THAT MAKES THE COWBOYS NOT PART OF THE CONVERSATION. 313 00:15:20,954 --> 00:15:23,823 AND THE INTERESTING THING, I FOUND, YES, 314 00:15:23,823 --> 00:15:26,860 AS A BUILDING OF THE STADIUM IS SOMETHING, TO ME, 315 00:15:26,860 --> 00:15:30,764 IT IS AS FAR AS THE OLD TEXAS BRAG. 316 00:15:30,764 --> 00:15:37,237 IT MAY BE THE LAST GASP OF "OURS IS BIGGER" AND IT IS NOT UNLIKE 317 00:15:37,237 --> 00:15:39,839 THE SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS' BASEBALL PARK. 318 00:15:39,839 --> 00:15:42,409 THERE IS NOTHING GREEN ABOUT IT. 319 00:15:42,409 --> 00:15:43,410 OR RECYCLABLE. 320 00:15:43,410 --> 00:15:46,312 IT IS LIKE A '61 CADILLAC. 321 00:15:46,312 --> 00:15:47,614 >> A THROWBACK. 322 00:15:47,614 --> 00:15:48,915 >> IT IS FABULOUS. 323 00:15:48,915 --> 00:15:51,918 A GREAT PLACE TO TAKE A TOUR. 324 00:15:51,918 --> 00:15:55,388 A LOT OF MONEY BEING GENERATED BY TOURS. 325 00:15:55,388 --> 00:15:58,391 GREAT PLACE TO WATCH HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL. 326 00:15:58,391 --> 00:16:02,662 WHERE ALL THE CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES ARE HELD IN TEXAS. 327 00:16:02,662 --> 00:16:04,064 COLLEGE GAMES, DOING SOCCER. 328 00:16:04,064 --> 00:16:08,835 A TERRIBLE PLACE TO HEAR A MUSIC CONCERT BECAUSE THE SOUND IS 329 00:16:08,835 --> 00:16:11,571 HORRENDOUS. 330 00:16:11,571 --> 00:16:14,541 THE INTERESTING THING IS AS MUCH OF A BIG DEAL AS THIS IS, 331 00:16:14,541 --> 00:16:16,543 IT IS ABOUT JERRY JONES' TIME. 332 00:16:16,543 --> 00:16:20,213 THREE YEARS, MAYBE ONE MORE. 333 00:16:20,213 --> 00:16:22,682 YEAR, IF THEY DON'T DELIVER THIS YEAR, 334 00:16:22,682 --> 00:16:26,786 THE NATIVES ARE ALREADY PRETTY RESTLESS. 335 00:16:26,786 --> 00:16:29,055 >> AS IT IS, IF YOU WANT TO SEE A GREAT SPORTS TEAM, 336 00:16:29,055 --> 00:16:31,791 YOU CAN WALK ACROSS THE STREET AND SEE THE RANGERS. 337 00:16:31,791 --> 00:16:33,860 IT HAS TO DRIVE HIM CRAZY. 338 00:16:33,860 --> 00:16:39,866 >> IT HAS TO do WITH THE NUMBER OF SELL-OUTS AS THEY'VE DONE. 339 00:16:42,268 --> 00:16:47,574 >> VALUABLE PLAYER OF THE TEXAS RANGERS THEY SAID, 340 00:16:47,574 --> 00:16:52,812 WE'LL NEVER REPLACE THE COWBOYS, BUT TO BE HONEST WATCHING SPORTS 341 00:16:52,812 --> 00:16:56,950 IN THIS MARKET SINCE THE '50S, THEY MAY DO IT THIS YEAR, 342 00:16:56,950 --> 00:16:59,386 ESPECIALLY IF THE COWBOYS DON'T START DELIVERING. 343 00:16:59,386 --> 00:17:02,856 THIS IS REALLY PUT UP OR SHUT UP TIME. 344 00:17:02,856 --> 00:17:06,793 >> THE FIRST GAME OF THE SEASON THAT WE'RE SITTING HERE TALKING 345 00:17:06,793 --> 00:17:09,829 IN, THEY BEAT THE SUPERBOWL CHAMPION NEW YORK GIANTS. 346 00:17:09,829 --> 00:17:10,830 >> THEY LOOKED GREAT. 347 00:17:10,830 --> 00:17:15,135 AND THEN THE NEXT WEEK LOOKED LIKE THE TEAM LAST YEAR, WHICH. 348 00:17:15,135 --> 00:17:18,938 DEPENDING ON WHICH WEEK YOU WATCH, EITHER GREATNESS OR, 349 00:17:18,938 --> 00:17:23,209 YOU KNOW, MEDIOCRITY ON PARADE. 350 00:17:23,209 --> 00:17:26,746 THEY'RE A SOAP OPERA. 351 00:17:26,746 --> 00:17:27,747 I LOVE THAT. 352 00:17:27,747 --> 00:17:33,753 MARTELLUS BENNETT SAID, I L PLAYING IN DALLAS, 353 00:17:36,356 --> 00:17:38,291 BUT THE DRAMA. 354 00:17:38,291 --> 00:17:42,295 AND THE DRAMA IS WHAT DRIVES THIS TEAM. 355 00:17:42,295 --> 00:17:44,164 IT DRIVES THIS FRANCHISE. 356 00:17:44,164 --> 00:17:47,901 AND IN THAT RESPECT, JERRY JONES IS THE REAL J.R. 357 00:17:47,901 --> 00:17:48,902 EWING. 358 00:17:48,902 --> 00:17:52,539 HE'S ALMOST LOVABLE AND HUGGABLE. 359 00:17:52,539 --> 00:17:53,673 MORE SO THAN J.R. 360 00:17:53,673 --> 00:17:56,176 >> ALMOST. 361 00:17:56,176 --> 00:17:59,979 >> BUT, YEAH, I MEAN, HE'S -- I WOULD NOT WANT TO SIT ACROSS 362 00:17:59,979 --> 00:18:01,314 FROM THE NEGOTIATING TABLE. 363 00:18:01,314 --> 00:18:04,250 >> BEFORE -- I WANT TO TAKE THE LAST COUPLE OF MINUTES TO TALK 364 00:18:04,250 --> 00:18:07,220 ABOUT MUSIC, ON THIS, FINALLY WHAT WILL HE THINK OF THIS BOOK? 365 00:18:07,220 --> 00:18:10,790 THIS IS NOT AN AUTHORIZED HISTORY AND NOT A BOOK WRITTEN 366 00:18:10,790 --> 00:18:13,460 WITH THE COOPERATION OF THE BROAD SENSE OF THE INSTITUTION. 367 00:18:13,460 --> 00:18:17,230 >> I NEED TO SAY, THOUGH, THE COWBOYS WERE KIND ENOUGH TO OPEN 368 00:18:17,230 --> 00:18:20,200 UP THEIR ARCHIVES, THAT IS WHERE I GOT THE STORY. 369 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,569 I SPENT THREE MONTHS GOING THROUGH SCRAP BOOKS. 370 00:18:22,569 --> 00:18:27,040 DALLAS COWBOYS YOU NEED TO DIGITIZE YOUR ARCHIVES. 371 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,677 THEY'RE GIVING ME THE NICKEL AND DIME. 372 00:18:30,677 --> 00:18:32,846 WE DON'T HAVE MONEY FOR IT. 373 00:18:32,846 --> 00:18:34,247 >> REALLY? 374 00:18:34,247 --> 00:18:35,248 >> HONESTLY. 375 00:18:35,248 --> 00:18:39,085 I MADE REQUESTS TO INTERVIEW. 376 00:18:39,085 --> 00:18:41,788 MR. JONES, INSIDERS TOLD ME IN ADVANCE, 377 00:18:41,788 --> 00:18:44,858 HE DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO GAIN FROM THIS. 378 00:18:44,858 --> 00:18:48,261 GENTLEMAN FROM THE STAR TELEGRAM FORT WORTH INTERVIEWED ME AND 379 00:18:48,261 --> 00:18:52,132 SAID JERRY'S NOT GOING TO LIKE THIS BOOK. 380 00:18:52,132 --> 00:18:53,133 I SAID, REALLY, WHY? 381 00:18:53,133 --> 00:18:59,406 A MUSICIAN I KNOW HAD READ IT, I DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS A VORACIOUS. 382 00:18:59,406 --> 00:19:00,407 READER. 383 00:19:00,407 --> 00:19:02,709 HE SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU MAKE. 384 00:19:02,709 --> 00:19:05,145 JERRY JONES ALMOST HUMAN. 385 00:19:05,145 --> 00:19:06,279 >> THAT IS WHY HE WON'T LIKE IT? 386 00:19:06,279 --> 00:19:07,280 >> NO, NO. 387 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:13,353 THE REPORTER SAID HE'S NOT GOINg TO LIKE IT BECAUSE YOU SAID HE 388 00:19:13,353 --> 00:19:15,989 BOUGHT THE TEAM, A LEGACY. 389 00:19:15,989 --> 00:19:17,557 IT IS TRUE. 390 00:19:17,557 --> 00:19:20,160 HE BUILT UPON INCREASED VALUE. 391 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,364 HE SAID YOU USED THE WORD REPTILIAN. 392 00:19:24,364 --> 00:19:28,034 >> DOES HE KNOW WHAT YOU MEANT? 393 00:19:28,034 --> 00:19:35,008 >> I WAS TRYING TO GET INTO THE HEAD OF HIS CRITICS AND WHERE 394 00:19:35,008 --> 00:19:36,209 HE'S GOT REDEEMING VALUE. 395 00:19:36,209 --> 00:19:41,214 HE'S PUT HIMSELF OUT THERE WILLINGLY. 396 00:19:41,214 --> 00:19:44,384 HE KNOWS BULLETS WILL COME. 397 00:19:44,384 --> 00:19:48,455 FRANKLY, I THINK IF ANYTHING, I TREATED HIM FAIRLY. 398 00:19:48,455 --> 00:19:49,789 >> IT IS A FAIR TREATMENT. 399 00:19:49,789 --> 00:19:51,691 IT IS HONEST, BUT FAIR. 400 00:19:51,691 --> 00:19:55,095 >> I'M TRYING -- I DIDN'T HAVE AN AGENDA GOING IN, 401 00:19:55,095 --> 00:19:58,365 OTHER THAN TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS THE DANG DEAL WITH DALLAS. 402 00:19:58,365 --> 00:19:59,933 I GREW UP IN FORT WORTH. 403 00:19:59,933 --> 00:20:03,803 ALL YOUR LIFE, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DID OR HOW WELL YOU DID IT, 404 00:20:03,803 --> 00:20:06,206 THERE IS ALWAYS SOMETHING NEWER OR BRIGHTER IN DALLAS. 405 00:20:06,206 --> 00:20:08,108 >> WE NOW REVIEW THE BIAS. 406 00:20:08,108 --> 00:20:09,442 >> NO, NO, NO. 407 00:20:09,442 --> 00:20:12,345 THAT WAS A QUESTION THAT HAS DRIVEN ME ALL MY LIFE. 408 00:20:12,345 --> 00:20:15,815 HOW CAN ONE DEFINE DALLAS? 409 00:20:15,815 --> 00:20:19,319 THIS IS A STORY ABOUT SPORTS AND CULTURE. 410 00:20:19,319 --> 00:20:20,320 >> YEAH. 411 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,156 >> THIS FRANCHISE DEFINES DALLAS. 412 00:20:23,156 --> 00:20:25,725 JUST AS DALLAS DEFINES THIS FRANCHISE. 413 00:20:25,725 --> 00:20:29,629 IT IS COMPLEMENTARY ALL THE WAY AND IF DALLAS IS A MARKET 414 00:20:29,629 --> 00:20:32,065 CENTER, DALLAS IS A CAN-DO CITY. 415 00:20:32,065 --> 00:20:33,600 DALLAS IS A BUSINESS-FIRST CITY. 416 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,970 AND THIS REFLECTS BACK ON THE COWBOYS. 417 00:20:36,970 --> 00:20:41,541 THE COWBOYS GOT DALLAS THROUGH INTEGRATION AND SEGREGATION. 418 00:20:41,541 --> 00:20:47,580 THEY'RE THE MODEL IN DALLAS, TEXAS OF INTEGRATION AND RACES. 419 00:20:47,580 --> 00:20:49,983 WORKING TOGETHER COOPERATIVELY. 420 00:20:49,983 --> 00:20:51,184 >> YEAH. 421 00:20:51,184 --> 00:20:57,323 >> AND THERE IS -- THEY -- THIS FRANCHISE GOT DALLAS OVER THE 422 00:20:57,323 --> 00:20:59,492 KENNEDY ASSASSINATION. 423 00:20:59,492 --> 00:21:01,795 WHEN THEY GOT GOOD THEY GOT THE REST OF THE COUNTRY OVER THE 424 00:21:01,795 --> 00:21:03,329 KENNEDY ASSASSINATION. 425 00:21:03,329 --> 00:21:07,200 THEY SOLD DALLAS TO THE WORLD. 426 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,804 THE THEORY OF DALLAS CREATED BY DAVID JACOBS. 427 00:21:10,804 --> 00:21:13,573 HE HAD NEVER BEEN TO DALLAS. 428 00:21:13,573 --> 00:21:16,843 ALL HE KNEW WERE TWO THINGS, THE DALLAS COWBOYS AND THE DALLAS 429 00:21:16,843 --> 00:21:18,578 COWBOY CHEERLEADERS. 430 00:21:18,578 --> 00:21:21,448 FROM THAT -- >> BIG FRANCHISE. 431 00:21:21,448 --> 00:21:25,785 >> IN A GLOBALLY POPULAR, IT ALL GOES BACK TO THE COWBOYS. 432 00:21:25,785 --> 00:21:28,221 I'M HERE TO GIVE THEM RESPECT. 433 00:21:28,221 --> 00:21:32,292 >> WELL -- >> AND GRUDGING ADMIRATION FROM A GUY FROM FORT 434 00:21:32,292 --> 00:21:33,293 WORTH. 435 00:21:33,293 --> 00:21:36,830 THEN AGAIN, ALL THE GREAT SPORTS WRITERS THAT COVERED THE 436 00:21:36,830 --> 00:21:41,368 COWBOYS, ALL THE GREATS THAT BEGAN WITH CAME FROM FORT WORTH 437 00:21:41,368 --> 00:21:42,369 TOO. 438 00:21:42,369 --> 00:21:45,071 >> I APPRECIATE THE HAND FOR MY IDOLS. 439 00:21:45,071 --> 00:21:50,643 WE HAVE THREE MINUTES LEFT I HAVE TO MOVE YOU TO MUSIC. 440 00:21:50,643 --> 00:21:56,816 YOU WROTE BOOKS ABOUT STEVIE RAY VAUGHN AND SELENA, 441 00:21:56,816 --> 00:22:00,553 AND WILLIE NELSON WHO IS WITH US. 442 00:22:00,553 --> 00:22:04,324 NELSON IS KIND OF LIKE THE COWBOYS. 443 00:22:04,324 --> 00:22:06,559 HE'S A BIG FIGURE. 444 00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:08,995 ALMOST TOO BIG TO GET YOUR ARMS AROUND. 445 00:22:08,995 --> 00:22:12,332 ANY SIMILARITIES IN TRYING TO TACKLE THE TOPICS IN THE SUBJECT 446 00:22:12,332 --> 00:22:13,333 OF BOOKS? 447 00:22:13,333 --> 00:22:17,070 >> THERE WERE LESS SIMILARITIES THAN I WOULD THINK WOULD BE 448 00:22:17,070 --> 00:22:18,071 NORMAL. 449 00:22:18,071 --> 00:22:20,507 BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO TALK ABOUT AN INSTITUTION. 450 00:22:20,507 --> 00:22:22,442 IT DOESN'T LIVE AND BREATHE. 451 00:22:22,442 --> 00:22:25,111 IT IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF CHARACTER. 452 00:22:25,111 --> 00:22:29,315 PEOPLE KEPT ASKING ARE YOU GOING TO WRITE AFTER WILLIE? 453 00:22:29,315 --> 00:22:34,320 >> IT WOULD SEEM LIKE A COMEDOWN TO WRITE ABOUT SOME OTHER GUY. 454 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,990 >> IN THE CASE OF WILLIE NELSON, YES, 455 00:22:36,990 --> 00:22:40,827 THE ONLY THING BIGGER IN THAN WILLIE NELSON WAS THE 456 00:22:40,827 --> 00:22:41,828 DALLAS COWBOYS. 457 00:22:41,828 --> 00:22:46,566 THE LIGHT WENT ON ABOVE MY HEAD AND SAID LET'S GO DRILL DOWN 458 00:22:46,566 --> 00:22:50,003 DEEP AND GO SEE WHAT WE CAN FIND. 459 00:22:50,003 --> 00:22:52,305 >> IS THAT REALLY THE ORIGIN OF. 460 00:22:52,305 --> 00:22:53,306 THIS BOOK? 461 00:22:53,306 --> 00:22:55,008 IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED? 462 00:22:55,008 --> 00:22:59,579 >> I JUST ACCEPTED THE ROLE OF GUEST CURATOR AT THE BOB BULLOCK 463 00:22:59,579 --> 00:23:01,881 MUSEUM TO CURATE ON FOOTBALL. 464 00:23:01,881 --> 00:23:04,184 >> I WAS LOOKING FOR A BOOK. 465 00:23:04,184 --> 00:23:06,486 KNEW THERE WASN'T A MUSIC PERSON. 466 00:23:06,486 --> 00:23:09,155 IT GOT ME OFF FROM DOING MUSIC. 467 00:23:09,155 --> 00:23:12,625 AS A WAY TO UNDERSTAND CULTURE AND USE SPORTS. 468 00:23:12,625 --> 00:23:17,197 HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL IS ONE WAY YOU WANT TO UNDERSTAND TEXAS AND 469 00:23:17,197 --> 00:23:18,198 TEXANS. 470 00:23:18,198 --> 00:23:19,499 SIX-MAN, 5A, IT DOESN'T MATTER. 471 00:23:19,499 --> 00:23:23,403 YOU WILL LEARN ABOUT WHO TEXANS ARE AS A PEOPLE. 472 00:23:23,403 --> 00:23:28,241 IF YOU WANT TO SEE THE PINNACLE OF TEXANS' EXPRESSION AS FAR AS 473 00:23:28,241 --> 00:23:31,344 WHAT SPORTS MEANS TO THEM, THE DALLAS COWBOYS, 474 00:23:31,344 --> 00:23:35,849 THAT BLUE STAR WITH THE WHITE BORDER IS A BRAND. 475 00:23:35,849 --> 00:23:41,021 THAT IS GLOBALLY KNOWN, AND JUST RIGHT BEHIND COCA-COLA. 476 00:23:41,021 --> 00:23:44,724 THAT IS SOME KIND OF BRILLIANCE TO HAVE THAT BLUE STAR INSTEAD 477 00:23:44,724 --> 00:23:48,161 OF THE OLD COWBOY FIGURE THEY USED TO HAVE. 478 00:23:48,161 --> 00:23:50,930 THERE IS A REASON WHY THE COWBOYS ARE THE MOST VALUABLE 479 00:23:50,930 --> 00:23:53,233 FRANCHISE IN AMERICA IN SPORTS. 480 00:23:53,233 --> 00:23:54,834 I WOULD LIKE TO THINK I TOLD. 481 00:23:54,834 --> 00:23:55,835 THOSE STORIES. 482 00:23:55,835 --> 00:23:57,404 >> WHAT WILL YOU DO NEXT? 483 00:23:57,404 --> 00:24:00,440 >> BOY, I DON'T KNOW. 484 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,209 MY INCLINATION is -- >> WHA COULD BE AS BIG AS WILLIE NELSON 485 00:24:03,209 --> 00:24:04,210 AND THE COWBOYS? 486 00:24:04,210 --> 00:24:05,211 >> I DON'T know. 487 00:24:05,211 --> 00:24:07,580 MY PROBLEM IS I have to THINK BIG IF I am going to DO ANOTHER 488 00:24:07,580 --> 00:24:10,750 BOOK LIKE THIS All I know is that I'm looking AROUND HOUSTON 489 00:24:10,750 --> 00:24:12,819 AND AUSTIN, AND TRYing TO figure OUT, 490 00:24:12,819 --> 00:24:16,656 THESE ARE stories -- these are TEXAS STORIES that I HAVE 491 00:24:16,656 --> 00:24:24,064 GROWN-UP WITH ALL MY LIFE THAT I THINK DESERVE SOME REALLY DEEP 492 00:24:24,064 --> 00:24:25,865 THINKING AND DEEP DRILLING. 493 00:24:25,865 --> 00:24:27,734 And I WANT TO just WALLOW IN IT. 494 00:24:27,734 --> 00:24:29,636 AUSTIN, is -- I'M A LITTLE WEARY. 495 00:24:29,636 --> 00:24:34,441 But, you know, THE FACT IS, WHERE WE'RE TAPING IT really IS 496 00:24:34,441 --> 00:24:36,076 THE COOLEST CITY IN THE WORLD. 497 00:24:36,076 --> 00:24:39,179 So MAYBE it NEED TO JUMP OFF AND EXPLAIN HOW IT GOT THAT WAY. 498 00:24:39,179 --> 00:24:41,781 And I'm just -- >> well, THE LIGHT SHOULD GO OFF NOW IN YOUR 499 00:24:41,781 --> 00:24:42,782 HEAD, ACTUALLY. 500 00:24:42,782 --> 00:24:43,783 >> RIGHT. 501 00:24:43,783 --> 00:24:45,118 >> AND I'M PARTICULARLY FASCINATED WITH HOUSTON just 502 00:24:45,118 --> 00:24:48,755 BECAUSE IT really IS A GLOBAL MELTING POT and IT HAS got AS 503 00:24:48,755 --> 00:24:50,423 MUCH GOING FOR IT AS L.A. 504 00:24:50,423 --> 00:24:53,493 OR NEW YORK OR ANY OTHER CITY IN THE UNITED STATES, 505 00:24:53,493 --> 00:24:57,664 BUT THE GREAT THING ABOUT IT IS, IT IS ALL UNDER THE RUG AND YOU 506 00:24:57,664 --> 00:24:59,332 Got TO go LOOK HARD. 507 00:24:59,332 --> 00:25:01,735 >> I THINK -- YOU DIDN'T ASK -- AUSTIN. 508 00:25:01,735 --> 00:25:02,836 DO THE AUSTIN BOOK. 509 00:25:02,836 --> 00:25:03,803 That's AWESOME. 510 00:25:03,803 --> 00:25:05,238 HOW AUSTIN BECAME AUSTIN. 511 00:25:05,238 --> 00:25:06,239 THAT WOULD BE A HELL OF A BOOK. 512 00:25:06,239 --> 00:25:08,074 >> well, THERE IS A really GOOD STORY TO BE TOLD. 513 00:25:08,074 --> 00:25:10,110 One thing you need to know is in 1848, 514 00:25:10,110 --> 00:25:12,979 Austin was a very young city, THERE WERE MORE PRINTING PRESSES 515 00:25:12,979 --> 00:25:14,014 THAN CHURCHES. 516 00:25:14,014 --> 00:25:16,082 And THAT IS one thing that SEPARATED AUSTIN FROM OTHER 517 00:25:16,082 --> 00:25:18,418 CITIES IN THE UNITED STATES AT THAT TIME. 518 00:25:18,418 --> 00:25:19,419 >> THERE MAY still BE. 519 00:25:19,419 --> 00:25:20,420 >> Yeah, I think SO. 520 00:25:20,420 --> 00:25:22,022 >> That's right, we're going to leave it there. 521 00:25:22,022 --> 00:25:23,523 JOE NICK, I'm so happy for you. 522 00:25:23,523 --> 00:25:24,524 This is a great book. 523 00:25:24,524 --> 00:25:27,594 I hope it's a huge success and I wish you all the luck in the 524 00:25:27,594 --> 00:25:28,595 world. 525 00:25:28,595 --> 00:25:30,897 >> Well it was a great deal of fun to do. 526 00:25:30,897 --> 00:25:32,932 >> Joe Nick Potaski, THANK YOU very much. 527 00:25:32,932 --> 00:25:33,933 >> THANK YOU. 528 00:25:33,933 --> 00:25:35,235 >> WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE YOU. 529 00:25:35,235 --> 00:25:39,139 JOIN US IN THE STUDIO, VISIT Our website at KLRU.ORG/OVERHEARD TO 530 00:25:39,139 --> 00:25:43,943 find Invitations to INTERVIEWS, Q and A's with our audience ang 531 00:25:43,943 --> 00:25:47,080 guests and an ARCHIVE OF PAST EPISODES. 532 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:53,086 >> I TELL YOU WHAT A $9 MILLER LIGHT IS A TOUGH THING TO 533 00:25:58,124 --> 00:26:00,427 SWALLOW. 534 00:26:00,427 --> 00:26:01,594 >> YEAH! 535 00:26:01,594 --> 00:26:03,897 [LAUGHTER]. 536 00:26:03,897 --> 00:26:09,903 >> EVEN WHEN YOU ARE REAL THIRSTY. 537 00:26:12,172 --> 00:26:15,975 >> FUNDING FOR OVERHEARD WITH EVAN SMITH IS PROVIDED IN PART 538 00:26:15,975 --> 00:26:19,913 BY HILLCO PARTNERS, TEXAS GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS CONSULTANCY. 539 00:26:19,913 --> 00:26:22,716 AND it's global healthcare consulting business unit, 540 00:26:22,716 --> 00:26:26,720 HILLCO HEALTH, AND BY THE MATTSSON MCHALE FOUNDATION IN 541 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,955 SUPPORT OF PUBLIC TELEVISION. 542 00:26:28,955 --> 00:26:34,661 AND also By MFI FOUNDATION, IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE 543 00:26:34,661 --> 00:26:37,097 withIN OUR COMMUNITY, AND ALSO THE ALICE KLEBERG Reynolds 544 00:26:37,097 --> 00:26:40,133 FOUNDATION AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU. 545 00:26:40,133 --> 00:26:44,133 THANK YOU.