>> FUNDING FOR
OVERHEARD WITH EVAN SMITH IS

provided in part
by Hillco Partners,

Texas Government affairs
consultancy and its global

healthcare consulting
business unit HILLCO HEALTH,

and by the MATTSSON MCHALE
Foundation in support of public

television AND ALSO
BY MFI FOUNDATION,

IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE
WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY AND ALSO BY

THE ALICE KLEBURG REYNOLDS.

FOUNDATION AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

Thank you.

>> I'M EVAN SMITH.

He's a veteran magazine writer
and radio personality whose

BIOGRAPHIES of
STEVIE RAY VAUGHN,

SELENA AND WILLIE NELSON are the
standard by which all others are

measured.

HIS LATEST BOOK,
THE DALLAS COWBOYS,

the outrageous history
of the BIGGEST, LOUDEST,

MOST HATED best loved FOOTBALL
TEAM in America has just been

published.

HE'S JOE Nick Patoski.

THIS IS OVERHEARD.

>> We have 15 million kids who
grow up in our country who grow

up below the poverty line.

MOST AMERICANS WANT A
GOOD the same thing.

They want a good JOB.

>> I realized there weren't a
lot of OF PEOPLE WRITING THINGS

IN MY VOICE So I REALIZED I HAD
TO DO IT FOR MYSELF >> and HE

SAID KID, I LOVE YOU BECAUSE...

>> WE'RE A BETTER COUNTRY THAN
WE USED TO be But WE HAVE MORE

TO DO, and WE NEED TO GET AT IT.

>> I WOULD do that when I wanted
to get That buzz YOU GET FOR

WORKING AT THE
ABSOLUTE TOP DOLLAR.

[LAUGHTER] >> JOE NICK, WELCOME.

>> Thank you, evan.

>> Good to see you.

CONGRATULATIONS ON this BOOK.

I MAY GET INTO SHAPE BY LIFTINg
weights with it, actually.

>> IT MAKES A GREAT DOOR STOP.

>> it will.

MOST HATED?

REALLY?

>> Absolutely.

>> YOU WANT TO
DEFEND THAT TO ME?

Defend that to me.

>> There's NO NEED
TO even DEFEND.

I mean, THE FIGURES
SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

THEY ARE MOST EASILY THE MOST
HATED FRANCHISE in the NFL.

>> HOW DO YOU quantify THAT?

>> Well, let's -- let's
GO with the individuals,

the owners -- owner
FIRST, JERRY JONES.

WHEN I WAS WORKING ON THIS
A YEAR AND A HALF AGO,

THEY actually DID A POLL ON
who are THE MOST HATED SPORTS

FIGURES out there and
they -- >> SPORTS FIGURE,

NOT just FOOTBALL?

Sports figures.

>> but THEY WERE
ALL NFL figures.

NUMBER ONE Was AL DAVIS, NUMBER
TWO was MICHAEL VICK AND number

three was JERRY JONES.

AL DAVIS IS DEAD.

MICHAEL VICK STARTED PLAYING
WELL AND is MUCH-BELOVED IN

PHILLY NOW.

>> somewhat
REHABILITATED, right.

>> so it's -- it's --
it has ever been thus.

GOING BACK TO 1978 WHEN NFL
FILMS DUBBED THE COWBOYS

AMERICA'S TEAM, IMMEDIATELY
THEY WERE THE MOST HATED.

YOU NEVER SAW REACTION ARTICLES
WRITTEN LIKE you did by Lee

Montville, for instace,
of THE "BOSTON GLOBE."

Who just went to
town Jim Murray,

the LA Times people reacted
because they didn't like the

arrogance of the cowboys and and
how could they call themselve's

America's team.

>> SO IT WAS THE TEAM, it
wasn't TEXAS THEY HATED,

BUT it was THE
COWBOYS themselves?

>> No, but it was -- IT WAS
DEFINITELY THIS fRANCHISe.

And TEXAS HAS ALWAYS HAD
kind of A REACTION SIMILARLY.

TEXANS ARE a loud
boisterous people.

>> Right.

>> They're NOT SHY.

They're not introverted.

And I think that rubs a lot
of people the wrong way.

>> and yet THE HOUSTON OILERS
WERE NEVER AS CONTROVERSIAL a

franchise, the houston
texans aren't now.

There was something
specific to this team.

There's something ironic today
that if we're looking at this in

2012.

THE HOUSTON TEXANS ARE a
FAR SUPERIOR football TEAM.

>> THEY'RE AN ACTUAL TEAM.

>> PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT THEM
GOING all the way TO THE SUPER

BOWL.

>> Right.

>> THEIR FAN BASE MAY TRICKLE
OVER ACROSS THE SABINE RIVER AND

INTO PARTS OF
LOUISIANA, JUST RIGHT.

ACROSS.

>> Right.

>> And I DON'T THINK IT GETS
FARTHER NORTH THAN MONTGOMERY

COUNTY.

[laughter] They just don't
MATTER Unless you're IN HOUSTON.

>> BUT of course the cowboys
have been for the last couple of

years, at least, Such an
inCONSEQUENTIAL TEAM playoff

time THAT YOU WONDER is
it even worth hating THEM.

>> THIS YEAR, in August,
THE NFL RELEASED A SURVEY,

THE MOST POPULAR TEAM IN
National FOOTBALL LEAGUE ARE THE

DALLAS COWBOYS.

And THIS IS DESPITE A RECORD
THAT'S ABOUT 500 OVER THE LAST

18 YEARS Or so.

>> Yeah.

I MEAN, THEY'RE NOT
A VERY GOOD team.

>> so we go from MOST HATED
TO BEST-LOVED AND YOU just

QUANTIFIED THE BEST-LOVED PART.

>> YES.

And I mean, THE THING IS, THIS
Has been consistent and this --

THE FACT THAT THEY'RE
EVEN IN THIS DISCUSSION,

WHETHER THEY'RE THE
MOST HATED, BEST-LOVED.

I SAY THEY'RE BOTH,
AND THEY ARE BOTH,

IS REALLY A TRIBUTE TO THE
LEGACY OF THE FRANCHISE,

THE MARKETING, AND JUST THE
OVERALL FRONT OFFICE BRILLIANCE

THAT IS STILL CARRYING
THROUGH today.

>> but goes BACK from the -- ALL
BACK way back TO THE FOUNDING

AND goes all the way UP THROUGH
AND INCLUDING JERRY JONES WHO IS

RAPPING IN DORITOS COMMERCIALS,
WHATEVER it is HE IS DOING.

JERRY JONES AS A BRAND HIMSELF.

IS PART OF THE STORY.

>> "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE
CALLS THe DALLAS COWBOYS,

once again IN 2012, THE
VALUABLE FRANCHISE IN AMERICAN

SPORTS.

REALLY, MY JOB WAS TO EXPLAIN.

WHY.

And YOU GO BACK TO
1960 WHEN NOT ONE,

BUT TWO SONS OF TWO OF
THE RICHEST MEN ON EARTH.

And that would be two of the
big four of texas oil, H.L.

HUnT AND CLINT Murchison, Sr.
TWO OF THEir SONS HAD SUCH

Intense FOOTBALL JONES
that THEY BOTH STARTED.

FOOTBALL TEAMS -- professional
football teams IN DALLAS, TEXAS,

the same year, 1960.

THAT IS ONE REASON WHY THEY ARE
THE MOST VALUABLE FRANCHISE IN

AMERICAN SPORTS TODAY.

THAT's THE CREATION
OF THE FIRST REGIME.

THE SECOND REGIME, WHICH IS.

DEFINED BY JERRY
JONES OWNERSHIP,

IS THE BRILLIANCE THERE IS THE
TEAM HASN'T -- THEY CAME AND WON

SUPERBOWLS -- THREE
SUPERBOWLS IN FOUR YEARS.

OFF THE CHARTS.

And THEN EVER SINCE, EVER SINCE
JERRY JONES AND JIMMIE JOHNSON.

DIVORCED -- [LAUGHTER].

-- THE TEAM HAS BEEN LOUSY.

WHAT JERRY JONES HAS DONE -- his
brilliance has been To MONETIZE

THE FRANCHISE AS THE
LEAGUE HAS BEEN MONETIZED.

And THE LEAGUE TODAY IS NOT JUST
THE PREMIER SPORTS LEAGUE IN THE

UNITED STATES, IT IS ONE OF THE
BIGGEST ENTERTAINMENT companies

IN THE WORLD.

>> so IT IS TICKETS, but it's
corporate sponsorship and

UNDERWRITING and PARTNERSHIPS.

It's TV.

It's ALL THE THINGS THAT NOW GO
INTO THE REVENUE STREAMS OF A

MODERN SPORTS FRANCHISE, BUT
ON STEROIDS in the case of THE

COWBOYS?

>> Absolutely.

WITH THE COWBOYS, YES, THERE I
A FOOTBALL TEAM AT THE CENTER OF

all THIS.

And really I think -- >> It's
all the other stuff >> -- if

you follow sports, really
how YOUR TEAM DOES IS WHAT IS

IMPORTANT.

And UNFORTUNATELY FOR DALLAS
FANS THEY HAVE TO TAKE PRIDE IN,

WELL, You know, WE'RE THE MOST
TELEVISED TEAM IN THE NFL.

In 18 OF THE TOP 20 PROGRAMS
IN THE UNITED STATES,

IN 2011 WERE NFL GAMES, MOST
OF THEM WITH THE DALLAS COWBOYS

INVOLVED.

SO IT IS A DIFFERENT
KIND OF PLAYER PRIDE.

BUT IT IS A LOT TO BE PROUD OF.

THEY ARE STILL TOPIC A OF
THE CONVERSATION IN THE NFL.

>> IS THERE A COUNTERINTUITIVE
ARGUMENT TO BE MADE IN FAVOR OF

JERRY JONES?

IT seems EASY TO PICK ON JERRY
JONES as a baffoon, a roob,

this GUY FROM ARKANSAS has come
down, has NEVER actually FIT IN.

But YOU HAVE TO at some
point GIVE HIM CREDIT,

because WHETHER THE TEAM
has been SUCCESSFUL OR NOT,

HE TRANSCENDS THE STEREOTYPE
IN terms of how he's run this

business.

If you're just LOOKING
AT it as a BUSINESS.

>> JERRY JONES HAS A
LOT TO OFFER, I THINK,

as LOOKING AT HIM
AS A CHARACTER.

AND A PUBLIC FIGURE.

And IF YOU ARE A FAN
OF THE FIRST REGIME.

IF YOU -- if you FOLLOWED THE
COWBOYS WHEN TOM LANDRY WAS THE

COACH, WHEN TEX SCHRAMM
WAS THE GENERAL.

MANAGER AND PRESIDENT, YOU
PROBABLY STILL HAVE A HARD TIME

ACCEPTING THIS
GUY FROM ARKANSAS.

And that to me FASCINATES ME.

I WAS just LOOKING AT
DISCUSSION threads YESTERDAY,

and FANS WILL always
BRING THAT UP.

He's AN INTERLOPER.

LOOK WHAT HE DID.

HE DID NOT RESPECT THE
LEGACY OF THIS FRANCHISE.

But what I cam around to
recognize is how HE HAS KEPT

THIS TEAM THE TOPIC
OF CONVERSATION,

EVEN WHEN The team
HASN'T DONE WELL.

And how HE'S ADDED VALUE.

And certainly THERE IS NO OTHER
CELEBRITY OWNER IN SPORTS.

THE ONLY PERSON TO COMPARE
WITH JERRY JONES WAS GEORGE

STEINBRENNER.

>> AND HE IS GONE.

>> RIGHT.

>> HE HAS KEPT THEM RELEVANT.

THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG IF YOU
FOLLOW FOOTBALL AND THE COWBOYS.

ARE YOUR TEAM, WHEN THE
BEST-KNOWN PERSON ON YOUR

FOOTBALL CLUB IS THE OWNER
AND IT IS NOT A PLAYER.

>> ALTHOUGH, YOU HAVE TO CORRECT
ME IF I'M WRONG ABOUT THIS.

ISN'T IT TRUE TO TONY
ROMO'S MERCHANDISE,

AT ONE POINT THAT WAS THE MOST
SUCCESSFUL MERCHANDISE FEATURING

ANY PLAYER'S NAME OR NUMBER
IN THE NFL FOR A WHILE.

>> I DON'T KNOW THAT.

I DIDN'T SEE THAT FIGURE TONY
ROMO IS A GREAT STORY RIGHT

THERE.

HE'S PROBABLY THE
BEST-KNOWN PLAYER,

THE QUARTERBACK OF THE TEAM, HE
HAS A LOT OF CHARISMA I THINK,

AND HE'S VERY STAR-CROSSED.

TO WATCH THIS TEAM TODAY IS A
REALLY DIFFICULT ENTERPRISE.

>> YOU DON'T PUT HIM IN THE SAME
CATEGORY OF AIKMAN OR STAUBACH?

>> NO.

IN MY MIND THERE ARE THREE GREAT
QUARTERBACK IN THE HISTORY OF

THE COWBOY FRANCHISE, DON
MEREDITH, ROGER STAUBACH,

AND TROY AIKMAN.

AIKMAN AND STAUBACH BECAUSE
OF WINNING THE SUPER BOWLS,

BUT MEREDITH SOLD THIS
FRANCHISE TO THE CITY OF DALLAS,

AND SOLD THE TEAM TO THE REST
OF THE NFL AND MORE IMPORTANTLY,

THIS IS WHERE I TALKED A
LOT ABOUT MEDIA IN THIS.

THE FACT THAT MEREDITH WENT FROM
BEING THE QUARTERBACK OF THE

DALLAS COWBOYS TO ONE OF THE
FOUNDING HOSTS OF MONDAY NIGHT

FOOTBALL.

>> DANDY DON.

EVERY TIME DANDY DON
OPENED HIS MOUTH,

HE WAS SELLING THE DALLAS
COWBOYS WITH HIS ACCENT.

HE WAS WHO HE IS.

YOU GOT TO UNDERSTAND, YOU CAN'T
DISCOUNT MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL

FOR WHAT IT WAS THIS WAS
BEFORE CABLE TELEVISION.

>> YEAH >> THIS WAS THE LAST
TIME THE NATION GATHERED AROUND

THE ELECTRONIC CAMP FIRE EVERY
WEEK IT WAS ON MONDAY NIGHT.

AND TUESDAY MORNING, IF YOU WENT
TO WORK, IF YOU WENT TO SCHOOL.

EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T
FOLLOW FOOTBALL,

YOU HAD TO FAKE IT AND
SOMETHING ABOUT MONDAY NIGHT

FOOTBALL.

>> SO MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL AS A
FRANCHISE AND MEREDITH AFTER HIS

PLAYING DAYS WERE OVER WERE AS
MUCH A MYTH AND LEGEND TO THE

COWBOYS?

>> I FIGURED THIS OUT, TWO GREAT
SALESMEN ASSOCIATED WITH THIS

FRANCHISE.

ONE IS DON MEREDITH WHO LEARNED
AT A YOUNG AGE TO GREET.

CUSTOMERS IN HIS PARENT'S STORE
AND JERRY JONES WHO GREW UP

WORKING IN HIS PARENTS'
RESTAURANT AND GREETED CUSTOMERS

JERRY JONES' DAD WAS A SHOWMAN.

HE IS BROUGHT UP DOING WHAT HE
WAS TAUGHT TO DO AND DOING IT

EFFECTIVELY.

>> COME BACK TO ROMO
ASSUMI MEREDITH, STAUBACH,

AIKMAN IS SO SUPERLATIVE.

HE'S NO GARY HOGEBOOM HE
IS A FLY-BY GUY THAT WAS.

ON THERE -- >> ROMO IS REALLY
GOOD BUT YOU GOT TO WIN PLAYOFF

GAMES, ONE BUT ACTUALLY, THE
QUARTERBACK WITH THE BETTER

STATS IS DANNY WHITE,
WHO UNFORTUNATELY,

TRIED TO FOLLOW -- >>
FORGOTTEN IN HISTORY.

>> HAD TO FOLLOW ROGER
STAUBACH THEY CAME VERY CLOSE,

THE FIRST TWO YEARS THAT THE
TEAM -- HE WAS RUNNING THE TEAM,

YOU KNOW THEY WENT TO THE
CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP.

>> FOOTBALL HAS
OBVIOUSLY CHANGED.

THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THE GAMES
OF FOOTBALL ARE THE SAME

FUNDAMENTALS.

THROW THE BALL, RUN THE BALL.

CATCH THE BALL, KICK THE BALL.

THE CIRCUMSTANCE THAT HAS
GROWN-UP AROUND IT IS VASTLY

DIFFERENT.

HOW HAS THAT IMPACTED THE TEAM
BEYOND MAKING IT SUCCESSFUL

FINANCIALLY.

>> YOU LOOK AT THE 1960S WITH
THE COWBOYS AND THE OILERS

STARTED UP.

THE NFL DIDN'T HAVE A
LEAGUE-WIDE TELEVISION CONTRACT.

EVERY TEAM MADE
THEIR TELEVISION.

DEAL.

THERE WASN'T A LOT
GOING ON ONE TEAM.

THE BALTIMORE COLTS
HAD A CHEERLEADER.

THE WASHINGTON TEAM HAD A
BAND AND A LOT OF SPIRIT.

THERE WAS NOT MUCH MORE
GOING ON OTHER THAN A GAME.

AS TELEVISION LATCHED ON TO THE
NFL AND REALLY TELEVISED IT,

AS THE AFL, THEY WERE THE FIRST
LEAGUE WITH A TELEVISIONWIDE

CONTRACT, THEY WERE THE FIRST
LEAGUE TO BROADCAST IN COLOR.

THEY WERE THE FIRST LEAGUE
WITH MULTIPLE CAMERA SHOTS.

BY THE TIME THEY MERGED WHEN
LAMAR HUNT AND TEX SCHRAMM HAD

SECRET MEETINGS, IT IS THE
DALLAS PRINCIPALS AGAIN.

THEY CREATED THE MERGER
OF THE NFL AND THE AFL.

WHEN THAT HAPPENED THE DALLAS
COWBOYS WERE SITTING IN THE

CAMPERS.

ALL OF THIS HAPPENED, WHETHER
IT WAS THE MULTIPLE CAMERAS

CHEERLEADERS.

NO ONE SOLD CHEERLEADERS AND
PAGEANTRY LIKE THE DALLAS.

COWBOYS.

>> NO TEAM -- MAYBE WITH THE
EXCEPTION OF THE LAKER GIRLS,

NO TEAM WITH THE -- >> EVAN,
IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSe THE LAKER

GIRLS, THEY DIDN'T HAVE
THEIR OWN -- NOT ONE,

BUT TWO MADE FOR TV MOVIES,
WHICH WAS A NEW CONCEPT IN THE

LATE 70S.

THE FIRST DALLAS COWBOY
CHEERLEADER MOVIE BECAME THE

HIGHEST RATED MADE FOR
TELEVISION FILM EVER UNTIL THE

LATE '80S, '90S.

>> AND THEN MORE RECENTLY
THE STADIUM ARMS RACE.

LOOK WHAT JERRY BUILT UP THERE
FOR THE NEW COWBOY STADIUM.

>> JERRY HAS BUILT THE MOST
FABULOUS FOOTBALL PALACE THAT

WILL EVER EXIST.

A PALACE THAT TRANSCENDS
THE DALLAS COWBOYS.

>> A BILLION Four.

TAXPAYERS THROUGH
IN 350 MILLION.

DIDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

NOW IT IS A MULTIPLE FACILITY.

THAT IS GOING FOR ALL
THE DIFFERENT EVENTS.

IN A WAY, THAT MAKES THE COWBOYS
NOT PART OF THE CONVERSATION.

AND THE INTERESTING
THING, I FOUND, YES,

AS A BUILDING OF THE
STADIUM IS SOMETHING, TO ME,

IT IS AS FAR AS
THE OLD TEXAS BRAG.

IT MAY BE THE LAST GASP OF "OURS
IS BIGGER" AND IT IS NOT UNLIKE

THE SAN FRANCISCO
GIANTS' BASEBALL PARK.

THERE IS NOTHING GREEN ABOUT IT.

OR RECYCLABLE.

IT IS LIKE A '61 CADILLAC.

>> A THROWBACK.

>> IT IS FABULOUS.

A GREAT PLACE TO TAKE A TOUR.

A LOT OF MONEY BEING
GENERATED BY TOURS.

GREAT PLACE TO WATCH
HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL.

WHERE ALL THE CHAMPIONSHIP
GAMES ARE HELD IN TEXAS.

COLLEGE GAMES, DOING SOCCER.

A TERRIBLE PLACE TO HEAR A MUSIC
CONCERT BECAUSE THE SOUND IS

HORRENDOUS.

THE INTERESTING THING IS AS
MUCH OF A BIG DEAL AS THIS IS,

IT IS ABOUT JERRY JONES' TIME.

THREE YEARS, MAYBE ONE MORE.

YEAR, IF THEY DON'T
DELIVER THIS YEAR,

THE NATIVES ARE ALREADY
PRETTY RESTLESS.

>> AS IT IS, IF YOU WANT
TO SEE A GREAT SPORTS TEAM,

YOU CAN WALK ACROSS THE
STREET AND SEE THE RANGERS.

IT HAS TO DRIVE HIM CRAZY.

>> IT HAS TO do WITH THE NUMBER
OF SELL-OUTS AS THEY'VE DONE.

>> VALUABLE PLAYER OF THE
TEXAS RANGERS THEY SAID,

WE'LL NEVER REPLACE THE COWBOYS,
BUT TO BE HONEST WATCHING SPORTS

IN THIS MARKET SINCE THE '50S,
THEY MAY DO IT THIS YEAR,

ESPECIALLY IF THE COWBOYS
DON'T START DELIVERING.

THIS IS REALLY PUT
UP OR SHUT UP TIME.

>> THE FIRST GAME OF THE SEASON
THAT WE'RE SITTING HERE TALKING

IN, THEY BEAT THE SUPERBOWL
CHAMPION NEW YORK GIANTS.

>> THEY LOOKED GREAT.

AND THEN THE NEXT WEEK LOOKED
LIKE THE TEAM LAST YEAR, WHICH.

DEPENDING ON WHICH WEEK YOU
WATCH, EITHER GREATNESS OR,

YOU KNOW, MEDIOCRITY ON PARADE.

THEY'RE A SOAP OPERA.

I LOVE THAT.

MARTELLUS BENNETT SAID,
I L PLAYING IN DALLAS,

BUT THE DRAMA.

AND THE DRAMA IS WHAT
DRIVES THIS TEAM.

IT DRIVES THIS FRANCHISE.

AND IN THAT RESPECT, JERRY
JONES IS THE REAL J.R.

EWING.

HE'S ALMOST LOVABLE
AND HUGGABLE.

MORE SO THAN J.R.

>> ALMOST.

>> BUT, YEAH, I MEAN, HE'S --
I WOULD NOT WANT TO SIT ACROSS

FROM THE NEGOTIATING TABLE.

>> BEFORE -- I WANT TO TAKE THE
LAST COUPLE OF MINUTES TO TALK

ABOUT MUSIC, ON THIS, FINALLY
WHAT WILL HE THINK OF THIS BOOK?

THIS IS NOT AN AUTHORIZED
HISTORY AND NOT A BOOK WRITTEN

WITH THE COOPERATION OF THE
BROAD SENSE OF THE INSTITUTION.

>> I NEED TO SAY, THOUGH, THE
COWBOYS WERE KIND ENOUGH TO OPEN

UP THEIR ARCHIVES, THAT
IS WHERE I GOT THE STORY.

I SPENT THREE MONTHS
GOING THROUGH SCRAP BOOKS.

DALLAS COWBOYS YOU NEED
TO DIGITIZE YOUR ARCHIVES.

THEY'RE GIVING ME
THE NICKEL AND DIME.

WE DON'T HAVE MONEY FOR IT.

>> REALLY?

>> HONESTLY.

I MADE REQUESTS TO INTERVIEW.

MR. JONES, INSIDERS
TOLD ME IN ADVANCE,

HE DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING
TO GAIN FROM THIS.

GENTLEMAN FROM THE STAR TELEGRAM
FORT WORTH INTERVIEWED ME AND

SAID JERRY'S NOT GOING
TO LIKE THIS BOOK.

I SAID, REALLY, WHY?

A MUSICIAN I KNOW HAD READ IT, I
DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS A VORACIOUS.

READER.

HE SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU MAKE.

JERRY JONES ALMOST HUMAN.

>> THAT IS WHY HE WON'T LIKE IT?

>> NO, NO.

THE REPORTER SAID HE'S NOT GOINg
TO LIKE IT BECAUSE YOU SAID HE

BOUGHT THE TEAM, A LEGACY.

IT IS TRUE.

HE BUILT UPON INCREASED VALUE.

HE SAID YOU USED
THE WORD REPTILIAN.

>> DOES HE KNOW WHAT YOU MEANT?

>> I WAS TRYING TO GET INTO THE
HEAD OF HIS CRITICS AND WHERE

HE'S GOT REDEEMING VALUE.

HE'S PUT HIMSELF
OUT THERE WILLINGLY.

HE KNOWS BULLETS WILL COME.

FRANKLY, I THINK IF ANYTHING,
I TREATED HIM FAIRLY.

>> IT IS A FAIR TREATMENT.

IT IS HONEST, BUT FAIR.

>> I'M TRYING -- I DIDN'T
HAVE AN AGENDA GOING IN,

OTHER THAN TO FIGURE OUT WHAT
IS THE DANG DEAL WITH DALLAS.

I GREW UP IN FORT WORTH.

ALL YOUR LIFE, NO MATTER WHAT
YOU DID OR HOW WELL YOU DID IT,

THERE IS ALWAYS SOMETHING
NEWER OR BRIGHTER IN DALLAS.

>> WE NOW REVIEW THE BIAS.

>> NO, NO, NO.

THAT WAS A QUESTION THAT
HAS DRIVEN ME ALL MY LIFE.

HOW CAN ONE DEFINE DALLAS?

THIS IS A STORY ABOUT
SPORTS AND CULTURE.

>> YEAH.

>> THIS FRANCHISE
DEFINES DALLAS.

JUST AS DALLAS DEFINES
THIS FRANCHISE.

IT IS COMPLEMENTARY ALL THE
WAY AND IF DALLAS IS A MARKET

CENTER, DALLAS IS A CAN-DO CITY.

DALLAS IS A BUSINESS-FIRST CITY.

AND THIS REFLECTS
BACK ON THE COWBOYS.

THE COWBOYS GOT DALLAS THROUGH
INTEGRATION AND SEGREGATION.

THEY'RE THE MODEL IN DALLAS,
TEXAS OF INTEGRATION AND RACES.

WORKING TOGETHER COOPERATIVELY.

>> YEAH.

>> AND THERE IS -- THEY -- THIS
FRANCHISE GOT DALLAS OVER THE

KENNEDY ASSASSINATION.

WHEN THEY GOT GOOD THEY GOT THE
REST OF THE COUNTRY OVER THE

KENNEDY ASSASSINATION.

THEY SOLD DALLAS TO THE WORLD.

THE THEORY OF DALLAS
CREATED BY DAVID JACOBS.

HE HAD NEVER BEEN TO DALLAS.

ALL HE KNEW WERE TWO THINGS, THE
DALLAS COWBOYS AND THE DALLAS

COWBOY CHEERLEADERS.

FROM THAT -- >>
BIG FRANCHISE.

>> IN A GLOBALLY POPULAR, IT
ALL GOES BACK TO THE COWBOYS.

I'M HERE TO GIVE THEM RESPECT.

>> WELL -- >> AND GRUDGING
ADMIRATION FROM A GUY FROM FORT

WORTH.

THEN AGAIN, ALL THE GREAT
SPORTS WRITERS THAT COVERED THE

COWBOYS, ALL THE GREATS THAT
BEGAN WITH CAME FROM FORT WORTH

TOO.

>> I APPRECIATE THE
HAND FOR MY IDOLS.

WE HAVE THREE MINUTES LEFT
I HAVE TO MOVE YOU TO MUSIC.

YOU WROTE BOOKS ABOUT STEVIE
RAY VAUGHN AND SELENA,

AND WILLIE NELSON
WHO IS WITH US.

NELSON IS KIND OF
LIKE THE COWBOYS.

HE'S A BIG FIGURE.

ALMOST TOO BIG TO
GET YOUR ARMS AROUND.

ANY SIMILARITIES IN TRYING TO
TACKLE THE TOPICS IN THE SUBJECT

OF BOOKS?

>> THERE WERE LESS SIMILARITIES
THAN I WOULD THINK WOULD BE

NORMAL.

BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO
TALK ABOUT AN INSTITUTION.

IT DOESN'T LIVE AND BREATHE.

IT IS A DIFFERENT
KIND OF CHARACTER.

PEOPLE KEPT ASKING ARE YOU
GOING TO WRITE AFTER WILLIE?

>> IT WOULD SEEM LIKE A COMEDOWN
TO WRITE ABOUT SOME OTHER GUY.

>> IN THE CASE OF
WILLIE NELSON, YES,

THE ONLY THING BIGGER IN
THAN WILLIE NELSON WAS THE

DALLAS COWBOYS.

THE LIGHT WENT ON ABOVE MY HEAD
AND SAID LET'S GO DRILL DOWN

DEEP AND GO SEE
WHAT WE CAN FIND.

>> IS THAT REALLY THE ORIGIN OF.

THIS BOOK?

IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED?

>> I JUST ACCEPTED THE ROLE OF
GUEST CURATOR AT THE BOB BULLOCK

MUSEUM TO CURATE ON FOOTBALL.

>> I WAS LOOKING FOR A BOOK.

KNEW THERE WASN'T
A MUSIC PERSON.

IT GOT ME OFF FROM DOING MUSIC.

AS A WAY TO UNDERSTAND
CULTURE AND USE SPORTS.

HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL IS ONE WAY
YOU WANT TO UNDERSTAND TEXAS AND

TEXANS.

SIX-MAN, 5A, IT DOESN'T MATTER.

YOU WILL LEARN ABOUT WHO
TEXANS ARE AS A PEOPLE.

IF YOU WANT TO SEE THE PINNACLE
OF TEXANS' EXPRESSION AS FAR AS

WHAT SPORTS MEANS TO
THEM, THE DALLAS COWBOYS,

THAT BLUE STAR WITH THE
WHITE BORDER IS A BRAND.

THAT IS GLOBALLY KNOWN, AND
JUST RIGHT BEHIND COCA-COLA.

THAT IS SOME KIND OF BRILLIANCE
TO HAVE THAT BLUE STAR INSTEAD

OF THE OLD COWBOY FIGURE
THEY USED TO HAVE.

THERE IS A REASON WHY THE
COWBOYS ARE THE MOST VALUABLE

FRANCHISE IN AMERICA IN SPORTS.

I WOULD LIKE TO THINK I TOLD.

THOSE STORIES.

>> WHAT WILL YOU DO NEXT?

>> BOY, I DON'T KNOW.

MY INCLINATION is -- >> WHA
COULD BE AS BIG AS WILLIE NELSON

AND THE COWBOYS?

>> I DON'T know.

MY PROBLEM IS I have to THINK
BIG IF I am going to DO ANOTHER

BOOK LIKE THIS All I know is
that I'm looking AROUND HOUSTON

AND AUSTIN, AND
TRYing TO figure OUT,

THESE ARE stories -- these
are TEXAS STORIES that I HAVE

GROWN-UP WITH ALL MY LIFE THAT
I THINK DESERVE SOME REALLY DEEP

THINKING AND DEEP DRILLING.

And I WANT TO just WALLOW IN IT.

AUSTIN, is -- I'M
A LITTLE WEARY.

But, you know, THE FACT IS,
WHERE WE'RE TAPING IT really IS

THE COOLEST CITY IN THE WORLD.

So MAYBE it NEED TO JUMP OFF
AND EXPLAIN HOW IT GOT THAT WAY.

And I'm just -- >> well, THE
LIGHT SHOULD GO OFF NOW IN YOUR

HEAD, ACTUALLY.

>> RIGHT.

>> AND I'M PARTICULARLY
FASCINATED WITH HOUSTON just

BECAUSE IT really IS A GLOBAL
MELTING POT and IT HAS got AS

MUCH GOING FOR IT AS L.A.

OR NEW YORK OR ANY OTHER
CITY IN THE UNITED STATES,

BUT THE GREAT THING ABOUT IT IS,
IT IS ALL UNDER THE RUG AND YOU

Got TO go LOOK HARD.

>> I THINK -- YOU
DIDN'T ASK -- AUSTIN.

DO THE AUSTIN BOOK.

That's AWESOME.

HOW AUSTIN BECAME AUSTIN.

THAT WOULD BE A HELL OF A BOOK.

>> well, THERE IS A really
GOOD STORY TO BE TOLD.

One thing you need
to know is in 1848,

Austin was a very young city,
THERE WERE MORE PRINTING PRESSES

THAN CHURCHES.

And THAT IS one thing that
SEPARATED AUSTIN FROM OTHER

CITIES IN THE UNITED
STATES AT THAT TIME.

>> THERE MAY still BE.

>> Yeah, I think SO.

>> That's right, we're
going to leave it there.

JOE NICK, I'm so happy for you.

This is a great book.

I hope it's a huge success and
I wish you all the luck in the

world.

>> Well it was a great
deal of fun to do.

>> Joe Nick Potaski,
THANK YOU very much.

>> THANK YOU.

>> WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE YOU.

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SWALLOW.

>> YEAH!

[LAUGHTER].

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