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[NARRATOR] Funding for 
Overheard With Evan Smith

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is provided in part 
by HillCo Partners,

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a Texas government 
affairs consultancy,

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the Alice Kleberg 
Reynolds Foundation,

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Claire and Carl Stuart,

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and by Entergy.

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[EVAN SMITH] I'm Evan Smith.

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He's an Academy Award 
Nominated Director

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whose credits include 
"Juno," "Up in the Air,"

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and "Thank You for Smoking."

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His latest film 
about the Gary Hart,

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Donna Rice affair is 
"The Front Runner."

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He's Jason Reitman.

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This is Overheard.

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Let's be honest.

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Is this about the 
ability to learn,

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or is this about the experience

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of not having been 
taught properly?

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How have you avoided 
what has befallen

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other nations in Africa and

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You could say that 
he'd made his own bed,

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but you caused him 
to sleep in it.

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You know, you saw a problem, 
and over time, took it on.

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Let's start with the sizzle 
before we get to the steak.

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Are you gonna run for President?

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I think I just got an 
F from you, actually.

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This is Overheard.

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(audience applauds)

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[SMITH] Jason Reitman, welcome.

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[JASON REITMAN] Thank you.

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[SMITH] Thank you very 
much for being here.

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Congratulations on 
your latest great film.

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[REITMAN] Thank you very much.

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[SMITH] Why is Gary Hart of 
interest to an audience today?

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This is 30 years since the 
Gary Hart, Donna Rice story

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played out in 
front of all of us.

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You're 41, so you were

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[REITMAN] I was 10.

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Look, when this happened, 
I was much more interested

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in the trajectory of the 
"Back to the Future" trilogy

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than I was in American politics.

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[SMITH] I can cop to having 
been a nerd at that time.

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I remember this story.

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I'm fascinated, 
I'm your audience.

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Why is it of interest 
to the broad audience?

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[REITMAN] Well, this, you 
know, really my journey

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on this film started 
three years ago

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when I listened to a Radio 
Lab piece about Gary Hart,

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based on Matt Bai's book 
of the same subject.

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[SMITH] Right, "All the Truth 
is Out" was the Matt Bai book.

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New York Times Magazine writer,

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and other publications, 
great, great book.

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[REITMAN] Great book, and 
I just couldn't believe

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that there was this moment 
in our recent history

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when the presumed next 
President of the United States

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wound up in his alleyway 
in the middle of the night

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with these journalists.

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[SMITH] Pursued by reporters.

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[REITMAN] No one knew 
what to do because no one

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had been in their shoes before.

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Within a week, he had 
left politics forever.

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So, this idea, this 
thriller of a guy

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going from next president 
to leaving politics

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in less than a week.

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It had all this 
connective tissue

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with all the things that 
we're talking about today,

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gender politics, what 
defines a public life

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versus a private 
life, the relationship

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between politicians 
and journalists.

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It had all of that in 
this tight packed story.

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[SMITH] Yeah, let's say 
that just 30 years ago,

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someone was forced out 
of a presidential race,

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or got himself out, 
because he had an affair

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with a woman, and was 
found out by the press,

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and today we have the 
President of the United States

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who had his lawyer 
pay off a porn star

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who he had an affair with,

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and everybody goes, "Eh.'

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[REITMAN] Right.

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Yeah, and it raises 
the real question...

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[SMITH] How far we've come.

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[REITMAN] ...of what 
is our interest.

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[SMITH] You mean 
the public interest.

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[REITMAN] Yeah, look 
I'm like anyone here.

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I wonder how the 
hell did we get here.

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And I wake up, and the first 
thing I do is I open my phone,

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and I check the news, 
and I go, oh no!

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And, generally there is a story.

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There'll be one story 
about, I don't know,

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the midterms, Kavanaugh 
hearings, whatever,

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and then right next to 
it, from the same source,

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will be a story 
about Ariana Grande

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and Pete Davidson breaking up.

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And it's confusing.

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Which one's entertainment 
and which one is

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[SMITH] Which one is serious?

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[REITMAN] Is politics.

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[SMITH] I could argue both 
sides of that, by the way.

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[REITMAN] Yeah, but we 
talk about politics now

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as though we're talking 
about last night's episode

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of "Sopranos" or 
"Game of Thrones."

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[SMITH] It's reality show stuff.

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I mean that's it.

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That's the transformation 
of politics.

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[REITMAN] So when I 
started talking to people

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about the Gary Hart scandal,

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people would inevitably 
say the same thing.

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They would go, Monkey Business. 
It's the name of this boat.

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[SMITH] The name of the boat 
that he and Donna Rice were on.

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[REITMAN] And they would 
go, what was her name?

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What was that blonde's name?

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They would talk about her 
like she was an object,

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not a human being.

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And I found that this story 
basically had become a meme,

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a joke, three 
ideas, a photograph.

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And not something real, 
something that happened,

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something in which 
the ground shifted,

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and our relationship with 
all these ideas changed.

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[SMITH] It was an 
extraordinary moment.

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People don't remember, 
if they don't remember,

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it was an extraordinary 
moment in American politics.

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So, the context is

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Gary Hart's the United 
States Senator from Colorado.

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He runs for president in 1984.

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Walter Mondale, the 
former vice president,

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is the presumed front 
runner in that race.

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Hart comes on the scene.

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He's a fresh face.

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He has new ideas.

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Mondale mocks him at the time

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for having these new ideas 
with nothing behind them,

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by calling out the old 
Wendy's ad campaign,

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"Where's the beef?'

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In fact, that's one of the 
earliest things in the movie

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is that clip of...

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[REITMAN] Yeah, it's one of 
the first things you see.

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[SMITH] Mondale saying to 
Hart, I think about that ad,

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"Where's the beef?'

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Hart drops out, Mondale 
becomes the nominee,

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is crushed, as Hart suggests 
in the movie he will be,

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by Reagan.

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Hart comes back 
around in '88, runs,

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[REITMAN] Yeah there's 
that famous electoral map

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where there's one state.

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[SMITH] One state, Minnesota, 
where Mondale wins.

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And then Hart comes 
back four years later,

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runs again, and is the 
presumed front runner himself.

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And so, this all 
plays out really,

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the '88 presidential 
campaign, Democratic primary.

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All this stuff plays out.

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Hugh Jackman plays Gary Hart.

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[REITMAN] Yes.

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[SMITH] Hugh Jackman 
is a terrific actor.

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I wouldn't have imagined 
Hugh Jackman as Gary Hart,

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in all the world.

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- Well, he's Australian.

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And he's Wolverine.

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[SMITH] That's the 
problem is he's Wolverine!

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Wolverine had an 
affair with Donna Rice.

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[REITMAN] The press 
go after Wolverine,

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and Wolverine's 
just like ssshhhh.

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[SMITH] Ahhhh, 
Washington Post, ahhhh.

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Right, no but I'm 
really thinking about

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[REITMAN] I like your 
Wolverine impersonation.

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[SMITH] You only get one.

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I'm actually thinking about,

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the whole time 
I'm watching this,

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he disappeared into 
that character.

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You know what it 
made me think of?

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It made me think 
of another movie

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with Ben Bradlee 
portrayed by somebody.

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It made me think of "The Post"

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and Meryl Streep playing 
Katharine Graham.

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After a while, I forgot 
it was Meryl Streep.

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And after a while, I 
forgot it was Hugh Jackman.

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[REITMAN] Hugh 
Jackman, beyond being

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one of the most decent actors

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I've ever met, is easily 
the hardest working.

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[SMITH] Works hard.

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[REITMAN] Oh my God.

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I remember one day 
I saw him he had

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a notebook this thick, 
all on Gary Hart,

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and I said, "Did you 
read that whole thing?'

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And he said, 'That's 
book one of five."

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It was a stack this 
high of research.

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[SMITH] He prepared.

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[REITMAN] He knew speeches 
that were not in the movie.

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He knew talking points 
that weren't in the movie.

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There's this press 
conference at the end of it,

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a really important 
press conference,

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and the whole direction was

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look there's an X on 
the ground out there.

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Go stand on it.

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People are gonna start 
asking you questions.

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[SMTIH] And he just did it.

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[REITMAN] He didn't know where 
they were gonna come from.

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He became this role, he 
took it very seriously,

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and it's a very tricky part.

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If you think about Hugh Jackman,

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what you think about 
is this actor who,

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whether he's P.T. Barnum, or 
in Les Mis, or even Logan,

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he's an actor who kinda 
reaches out from the screen,

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and grabs the 
audience by the ribs,

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and pulls them into the movie.

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This is a very different role.

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This is Hugh Jackman like 
you've never seen him before,

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'cause he plays an enigma, 
which is a very tricky thing.

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[SMITH] And sometimes 
empathetic in the movie,

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or sometimes you feel 
empathy or sympathy for him,

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but often he is both 
beleaguered and contemptuous

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in this character, as Gary 
Hart himself actually was.

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[REITMAN] Right, and we're 
trying to understand him.

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We're trying to 
understand his decisions,

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and he brings us 
like within an inch,

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but never completely lets us in.

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- Right, so J.K. Simmons 
plays the campaign manager,

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Bill Dixon in this film.

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[REITMAN] Yeah, it's my 
ninth movie with him.

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[SMITH] I remembered 
that you produced,

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executive producer 
of "Whiplash," right?

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But you've done other 
things with him, right?

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[REITMAN] "Thank You 
for Smoking," "Juno," 
"Up in the Air."

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[SMITH] What an extraordinary, 
he was the dad in Juno.

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He is an extraordinary actor.

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[REITMAN] Yes.

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And is just great, and 
he's very J.K. Simmons,

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let me just say it that 
way, in this movie.

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Alfred Molina plays Ben Bradlee.

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[REITMAN] First time 
working with Molina.

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I mean, that's a life goal.

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[REITMAN] And Vera 
Farmiga is Lee Hart.

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And you had worked 
with her before.

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One of my favorite scenes in 
"Up in the Air," a great film,

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[REITMAN] Thank you.

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[SMITH] A great film,

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was when George Clooney goes 
to Chicago, finally to say

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[REITMAN] Are you 
about to ruin it?

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(audience laughs)

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You are about to 
spoil the movie.

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[SMITH] I could.

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It's an old movie. Can 
you spoil an old movie?

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[REITMAN] You what scene 
I love in "Citizen Kane?"

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It's when they finally... 
[SMITH] Rosebud!

244
00:08:04,033 --> 00:08:06,700
(laughing)

245
00:08:06,700 --> 00:08:08,100
[SMITH] Hold it.

246
00:08:08,100 --> 00:08:10,366
Isn't there a statute of 
limitations on ruining a movie?

247
00:08:10,366 --> 00:08:11,633
[REITMAN] Let me tell you 
about the "Usual Suspects."

248
00:08:11,633 --> 00:08:12,900
[SMITH] Juno gets 
pregnant. Spoiler.

249
00:08:12,900 --> 00:08:15,300
(Jason laughing)

250
00:08:15,300 --> 00:08:18,233
Well, I'm just gonna say, 
fill in your own blank.

251
00:08:18,233 --> 00:08:19,500
But she's a great actress,

252
00:08:19,500 --> 00:08:21,433
and I remember seeing 
her in "The Departed,"

253
00:08:21,433 --> 00:08:23,833
right, in which she was 
absolutely fantastic,

254
00:08:23,833 --> 00:08:26,400
and you have found two 
great roles for her.

255
00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,033
So, I think the casting 
of this is amazing.

256
00:08:28,033 --> 00:08:30,000
And as I said to you 
before we came on stage,

257
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,700
these big name actors 
are supported by

258
00:08:32,700 --> 00:08:36,033
an actor from every HBO 
series, in a supporting role.

259
00:08:36,033 --> 00:08:38,800
Paul from the "The Deuce," Big 
Head from "Silicon Valley,"

260
00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:42,133
Ray from "Girls" are all 
in minor parts in this.

261
00:08:42,133 --> 00:08:44,966
It's such a wonderful 
collection of people,

262
00:08:44,966 --> 00:08:46,266
and you're always 
so good with actors.

263
00:08:46,266 --> 00:08:47,500
[REITMAN] That's very kind.

264
00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:48,933
Look, this is a movie 
with 20 main characters.

265
00:08:48,933 --> 00:08:50,133
[SMITH] Yeah, it really is.

266
00:08:50,133 --> 00:08:51,366
[REITMAN] And it's 
easy to get lost into

267
00:08:51,366 --> 00:08:52,566
the Gary Hart of it all.

268
00:08:52,566 --> 00:08:54,300
But it's actually 
almost not about him,

269
00:08:54,300 --> 00:08:56,133
as much as it is 
about the rest of us.

270
00:08:56,133 --> 00:08:58,033
What's interesting about 
the Gary Hart scandal

271
00:08:58,033 --> 00:08:59,800
is what it says 
about the rest of us.

272
00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:01,100
[SMITH] So what is the message

273
00:09:01,100 --> 00:09:02,300
that we're supposed to 
take away from this.

274
00:09:02,300 --> 00:09:04,033
Because I think the 
point you made earlier,

275
00:09:04,033 --> 00:09:06,500
how far we've come and 
how far we haven't,

276
00:09:06,500 --> 00:09:08,533
the fact that what was 
then considered to be

277
00:09:08,533 --> 00:09:11,666
this extraordinary scandal 
wouldn't even really rate today,

278
00:09:11,666 --> 00:09:13,233
given the politics 
of the moment, right?

279
00:09:13,233 --> 00:09:15,100
I mean having an 
affair is so quaint.

280
00:09:15,100 --> 00:09:16,300
[REITMAN] I think 
that was your point.

281
00:09:16,300 --> 00:09:17,866
[SMITH] But you don't 
think that's true?

282
00:09:19,266 --> 00:09:20,433
It seems undeniable to me.

283
00:09:20,433 --> 00:09:22,100
[REITMAN] I think sex matters.

284
00:09:22,100 --> 00:09:23,333
[SMITH] Still.

285
00:09:23,333 --> 00:09:25,933
[REITMAN] Well, it's 
this white hot topic,

286
00:09:25,933 --> 00:09:27,766
and when we talk about sex,

287
00:09:27,766 --> 00:09:29,200
we don't talk about 
anything else,

288
00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:30,966
so we just have to 
be very judicious

289
00:09:30,966 --> 00:09:32,733
about when we talk about it 
and how we talk about it.

290
00:09:32,733 --> 00:09:34,166
[SMITH] Would it be 
a disqualifier today?

291
00:09:34,166 --> 00:09:35,433
Somebody comes on the scene.

292
00:09:35,433 --> 00:09:36,666
We're about to have a 
presidential campaign

293
00:09:36,666 --> 00:09:38,700
with 150 Democrats 
running, apparently.

294
00:09:38,700 --> 00:09:41,466
If one of them is found 
to have had an affair,

295
00:09:41,466 --> 00:09:43,433
would that be a disqualifier 
in the way that it was then?

296
00:09:43,433 --> 00:09:45,700
[REITMAN] Here's the 
interesting question.

297
00:09:45,700 --> 00:09:46,966
We live in a moment, where,

298
00:09:46,966 --> 00:09:49,833
if you're someone who 
experiences shame,

299
00:09:49,833 --> 00:09:51,900
you step out of the 
race, and you walk away.

300
00:09:51,900 --> 00:09:53,866
If you're someone who 
doesn't experience shame...

301
00:09:53,866 --> 00:09:54,933
[SMITH] The absence of shame.

302
00:09:56,066 --> 00:09:57,533
[REITMAN] ...you stay 
in and you thrive.

303
00:09:57,533 --> 00:10:00,800
So, we have a system that 
somehow favors the shameless.

304
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:02,300
(audience laughs)

305
00:10:02,300 --> 00:10:04,300
[SMITH] You just depressed me 
to an extraordinary degree.

306
00:10:04,300 --> 00:10:05,500
[REITMAN] Nice to meet y'all.

307
00:10:06,366 --> 00:10:07,533
(Jason and audience laugh)

308
00:10:07,533 --> 00:10:09,200
[SMITH] An upbeat moment 
in this interview.

309
00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,733
Before we kinda 
broaden from this film,

310
00:10:11,733 --> 00:10:13,100
I wanna talk about two 
things in this film

311
00:10:13,100 --> 00:10:14,700
that really I loved.

312
00:10:14,700 --> 00:10:17,133
There is a pivotal 
scene in the alley,

313
00:10:17,133 --> 00:10:19,200
you talked about this, where 
the reporters confront,

314
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:20,933
and again not spoiling anything,

315
00:10:20,933 --> 00:10:22,500
people know the Gary Hart story.

316
00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:23,733
There's a pivotal scene.

317
00:10:23,733 --> 00:10:24,533
[REITMAN] He doesn't 
become president.

318
00:10:24,533 --> 00:10:25,333
[SMITH] By the way.

319
00:10:25,333 --> 00:10:26,800
(audience laughs)

320
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:27,966
In the end. There's a 
pivotal scene in the alley

321
00:10:27,966 --> 00:10:29,266
where the Washington 
Post reporter,

322
00:10:29,266 --> 00:10:30,733
I mean the Miami Herald 
reporters, pardon me,

323
00:10:30,733 --> 00:10:32,266
have been stalking Gary Hart.

324
00:10:32,266 --> 00:10:33,666
They've been staking him out,

325
00:10:33,666 --> 00:10:35,666
and they finally confront 
Hart in the alley,

326
00:10:35,666 --> 00:10:37,200
and they have kind of, 
what I would describe as,

327
00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,733
an argument about 
why they're there.

328
00:10:39,733 --> 00:10:42,300
And at one point, after the 
reporter for the Herald,

329
00:10:42,300 --> 00:10:44,100
Tom Fiedler, or the character 
playing Tom Fiedler,

330
00:10:44,100 --> 00:10:45,933
asked questions of 
Hart, what is he doing

331
00:10:45,933 --> 00:10:47,433
and the relationship 
with the woman,

332
00:10:47,433 --> 00:10:51,900
Hart, Hugh Jackman says to him, 
"I know my responsibility."

333
00:10:51,900 --> 00:10:53,166
He's basically saying isn't it

334
00:10:53,166 --> 00:10:54,133
your responsibility to 
answer these questions.

335
00:10:54,133 --> 00:10:55,366
"I know my responsibility,

336
00:10:55,366 --> 00:10:56,833
do you know yours?"

337
00:10:56,833 --> 00:10:59,000
And I thought, what 
a great encapsulation

338
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,433
of the relationship between 
the politics and the press.

339
00:11:01,433 --> 00:11:03,500
What side of the line you're on.

340
00:11:03,500 --> 00:11:06,633
In that respect 
nothing has changed.

341
00:11:06,633 --> 00:11:08,366
He may as well have 
said fake news.

342
00:11:09,533 --> 00:11:10,600
[REITMAN] I mean, I suppose so.

343
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,533
It's not even as much fake news,

344
00:11:12,533 --> 00:11:15,866
in my opinion, as much 
as what is relevant?

345
00:11:15,866 --> 00:11:17,100
And that is the question

346
00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:18,800
that the movie is 
asking all the time.

347
00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:20,233
[SMITH] Well, didn't we 
have, and again I go back

348
00:11:20,233 --> 00:11:22,133
to the current president, 
then candidate,

349
00:11:22,133 --> 00:11:25,166
and when the Access 
Hollywood tape came out.

350
00:11:25,166 --> 00:11:28,033
Wasn't the argument 
by the Trump folks,

351
00:11:28,033 --> 00:11:31,233
and maybe Trump even 
himself, why does this matter

352
00:11:31,233 --> 00:11:32,666
or this shouldn't matter?

353
00:11:32,666 --> 00:11:33,633
[REITMAN] He made so 
many different arguments.

354
00:11:33,633 --> 00:11:35,166
At first he was making arguments

355
00:11:35,166 --> 00:11:37,100
about it not even being true.

356
00:11:37,100 --> 00:11:38,333
[SMITH] It wasn't me.

357
00:11:38,333 --> 00:11:39,900
- Yeah, it wasn't me 
and then didn't matter

358
00:11:39,900 --> 00:11:41,700
or it's locker room talk.

359
00:11:43,133 --> 00:11:44,566
[SMITH] But the locker room 
talk argument basically

360
00:11:44,566 --> 00:11:48,100
is another way of 
saying, is this relevant?

361
00:11:48,100 --> 00:11:53,000
[REITMAN] Right. So, this 
is why the Gary Hart scandal

362
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,500
is such an interesting 
litmus test.

363
00:11:55,500 --> 00:11:57,033
It's really hard to 
talk about Trump.

364
00:11:57,033 --> 00:11:58,533
He's such an 
indecent human being

365
00:11:58,533 --> 00:12:01,833
that I just can't find the 
worthy conversation, frankly.

366
00:12:01,833 --> 00:12:06,000
But with Gary Hart, you have 
a guy, who was prescient

367
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:07,600
beyond all imagination.

368
00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,533
He was a guy who, in 
the mid '80s, was saying

369
00:12:09,533 --> 00:12:10,966
this country is addicted to oil.

370
00:12:10,966 --> 00:12:12,700
That addiction will take 
us into the Middle East

371
00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:14,600
where we will encounter 
Islamic terrorism

372
00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:16,100
and not know how to fight it,

373
00:12:16,100 --> 00:12:17,766
'cause we have a military 
that primarily bombs people.

374
00:12:17,766 --> 00:12:19,166
[SMITH] He was basically 
talking about climate

375
00:12:19,166 --> 00:12:20,600
before climate was a thing.

376
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:21,833
[REITMAN] Before climate, 
he talked about it.

377
00:12:21,833 --> 00:12:23,766
In '81 he met Steve 
Jobs in the garage

378
00:12:23,766 --> 00:12:25,266
and came back to 
the Senate and said,

379
00:12:25,266 --> 00:12:27,066
"The economic difference 
in the future will be

380
00:12:27,066 --> 00:12:29,733
those who know how to use 
computers and those who don't,

381
00:12:29,733 --> 00:12:32,566
and we need to put a 
computer in every classroom."

382
00:12:32,566 --> 00:12:34,633
In '99 he went to 
George Bush and said,

383
00:12:34,633 --> 00:12:36,100
"We're gonna be 
attacked by planes."

384
00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:39,233
This is a guy who has been able 
to see around every corner,

385
00:12:39,233 --> 00:12:42,100
who was charismatic, 
Kennedyesque, was 
a great candidate.

386
00:12:42,100 --> 00:12:44,766
Also, a human being. [SMITH] 
Flawed, like the rest of us.

387
00:12:44,766 --> 00:12:46,533
[REITMAN] Flawed 
and makes mistakes,

388
00:12:46,533 --> 00:12:48,866
and makes mistakes 
that we can understand,

389
00:12:48,866 --> 00:12:50,333
not ones like the 
Access Hollywood tape

390
00:12:50,333 --> 00:12:51,833
that literally boggle the mind,

391
00:12:51,833 --> 00:12:54,266
but real mistakes that 
happen to real marriages.

392
00:12:54,266 --> 00:12:58,466
So, now the question 
is, what of it matters?

393
00:12:58,466 --> 00:13:00,100
Now we can have 
this conversation,

394
00:13:00,100 --> 00:13:01,500
particularly thirty years later,

395
00:13:01,500 --> 00:13:03,566
not at a 12, the way 
it happens on Twitter,

396
00:13:03,566 --> 00:13:05,833
but in this movie 
where it's at a six.

397
00:13:05,833 --> 00:13:07,366
[SMITH] And I love the 
fact, because it does

398
00:13:07,366 --> 00:13:09,366
cause us all to have that, 
I totally agree with you,

399
00:13:09,366 --> 00:13:12,166
that it occasions 
that conversation.

400
00:13:12,166 --> 00:13:13,433
Quickly, the second 
thing in the movie

401
00:13:13,433 --> 00:13:14,966
that I wanna call 
out specifically.

402
00:13:14,966 --> 00:13:18,200
There's a scene with Alex 
Karpovsky and J.K. Simmons

403
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,533
talking about Warren 
Beatty and Gary Hart

404
00:13:22,533 --> 00:13:24,500
who are famously friends.

405
00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:27,166
And J.K. Simmons is 
recounting the conversation

406
00:13:27,166 --> 00:13:29,033
that Hart had told him that 
he and Warren Beatty had had,

407
00:13:29,033 --> 00:13:31,500
and Beatty is saying basically,

408
00:13:31,500 --> 00:13:34,366
"There's no privacy anymore, 
cameras are everywhere.'

409
00:13:34,366 --> 00:13:37,300
And Hart says, "Well, 
that's just Hollywood.

410
00:13:37,300 --> 00:13:38,566
That's not politics.

411
00:13:38,566 --> 00:13:40,566
That's the paparazzi." 
And Beatty's reaction,

412
00:13:40,566 --> 00:13:41,700
and J.K. Simmons' reaction is.

413
00:13:41,700 --> 00:13:43,333
"No, that's basically 
everything."

414
00:13:43,333 --> 00:13:47,733
We are now in an era where 
everything is filmed, streamed.

415
00:13:47,733 --> 00:13:48,866
Nothing is private.

416
00:13:48,866 --> 00:13:50,833
The E in email 
stands for everybody.

417
00:13:50,833 --> 00:13:54,633
You can't really expect 
any privacy at any moment,

418
00:13:54,633 --> 00:13:56,200
and especially if 
you're in public life,

419
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:57,666
if you're running for president.

420
00:13:57,666 --> 00:14:01,166
You are the public's property, 
100% of the time, right?

421
00:14:01,166 --> 00:14:03,466
I think that's an 
amazing realization,

422
00:14:03,466 --> 00:14:05,033
and the fact that it 
was a shock to anybody,

423
00:14:05,033 --> 00:14:08,566
Gary Hart or anybody 
else ever seems so weird.

424
00:14:08,566 --> 00:14:10,700
- Right, and so it 
raises this question

425
00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:13,300
of who is not running for 
politics because of that.

426
00:14:13,300 --> 00:14:14,733
[SMITH] Right.

427
00:14:14,733 --> 00:14:15,900
[REITMAN] Gary Hart steps 
away from this race.

428
00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:17,433
Gary Hart isn't kicked 
out of politics.

429
00:14:17,433 --> 00:14:18,866
Gary Hart walks 
away from politics.

430
00:14:18,866 --> 00:14:21,133
[SMITH] He makes a conscious 
decision to walk away.

431
00:14:21,133 --> 00:14:23,900
- The interesting thing 
about Hart is that,

432
00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:26,233
this word that always come 
up with Hart is character.

433
00:14:26,233 --> 00:14:27,700
What does it say 
about his character?

434
00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:29,933
Well, one thing that it 
says about his character is

435
00:14:29,933 --> 00:14:31,833
he wasn't willing to 
say whatever we wanted,

436
00:14:31,833 --> 00:14:34,633
he wasn't willing to lie, 
he didn't come back and say,

437
00:14:34,633 --> 00:14:35,866
"I'll do whatever you need.

438
00:14:35,866 --> 00:14:37,366
What do you need me to 
do to be the president?"

439
00:14:37,366 --> 00:14:38,733
He didn't walk away for a year

440
00:14:38,733 --> 00:14:41,133
and then get a job 
at MSNBC and be like,

441
00:14:41,133 --> 00:14:43,100
oh I'll be a pundit, and then 
I'll find my way back in.

442
00:14:43,100 --> 00:14:44,800
[SMITH] He didn't make excuses.

443
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:46,733
[REITMAN] He walked 
away and he stayed away.

444
00:14:46,733 --> 00:14:49,166
Wrote books, but 
lived in Denver.

445
00:14:49,166 --> 00:14:52,233
So, how many other 
Gary Harts are there?

446
00:14:52,233 --> 00:14:54,533
How many other people 
who are not running

447
00:14:54,533 --> 00:14:56,166
because they look 
at these debates,

448
00:14:56,166 --> 00:14:58,433
and they look at our 
president, and go,

449
00:14:58,433 --> 00:14:59,566
"That's the conversation 
you wanna have?'

450
00:14:59,566 --> 00:15:01,033
[SMITH] I don't wanna do that.

451
00:15:01,033 --> 00:15:02,233
[REITMAN] "No, thank you."

452
00:15:02,233 --> 00:15:03,400
[SMITH] Have you shown 
the film to Hart?

453
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:04,633
[REITMAN] Oh, yeah.

454
00:15:04,633 --> 00:15:06,733
Talk about the scariest 
screening of my life.

455
00:15:06,733 --> 00:15:07,566
[SMITH] Alright, 
talk about that.

456
00:15:07,566 --> 00:15:09,900
[REITMAN] Uh, I mean...

457
00:15:09,900 --> 00:15:10,833
[SMTIH] Cause he's still alive.

458
00:15:10,833 --> 00:15:12,300
He's still out in the world.

459
00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:13,833
- He's alive.

460
00:15:13,833 --> 00:15:15,033
They are married. They've 
been married for 60 years,

461
00:15:15,033 --> 00:15:16,533
just celebrated their 
60th anniversary.

462
00:15:16,533 --> 00:15:17,700
[SMITH] 60th anniversary.

463
00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:18,933
[REITMAN] Yeah, it's incredible.

464
00:15:18,933 --> 00:15:20,366
- A marriage made of titanium,

465
00:15:20,366 --> 00:15:21,833
given everything 
they went through.

466
00:15:21,833 --> 00:15:23,966
[REITMAN] And that's the thing, 
is marriage is complicated.

467
00:15:23,966 --> 00:15:25,566
Marriage is tough.

468
00:15:25,566 --> 00:15:26,400
I've been married.

469
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:27,466
I'm also divorced.

470
00:15:27,466 --> 00:15:28,300
Look, I get it.

471
00:15:28,300 --> 00:15:29,133
It is tough.

472
00:15:29,133 --> 00:15:31,966
And I respect them,

473
00:15:31,966 --> 00:15:34,633
and I also kind of want to 
afford them some privacy.

474
00:15:34,633 --> 00:15:37,100
But look, I went to 
Denver with the movie.

475
00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:38,533
I've also shown 
it to Donna Rice.

476
00:15:38,533 --> 00:15:40,000
[SMITH] You have?

477
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,500
[REITMAN] Yeah, she was actually 
the first person to see it.

478
00:15:42,500 --> 00:15:45,333
But I go to Denver, and Gary 
and Lee watched the film.

479
00:15:45,333 --> 00:15:48,066
I was just pacing outside the 
theater for the entire time.

480
00:15:48,066 --> 00:15:49,233
And they came out, and we went

481
00:15:49,233 --> 00:15:51,233
for hot chocolates 
together, their choice.

482
00:15:51,233 --> 00:15:54,833
And the first thing 
that Gary said was,

483
00:15:54,833 --> 00:15:56,500
"Do I really talk like that?"

484
00:15:56,500 --> 00:15:59,066
And his wife Lee 
said, "Yes, Darling.

485
00:15:59,066 --> 00:16:01,533
"That's exactly how you speak."

486
00:16:01,533 --> 00:16:02,700
[SMITH] Good note.

487
00:16:02,700 --> 00:16:03,933
That's very funny.

488
00:16:03,933 --> 00:16:05,100
[REITMAN] Yeah, and 
it's interesting.

489
00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:06,166
[SMITH] Well of course, 
he'd seen the book

490
00:16:06,166 --> 00:16:07,900
that it was based on.

491
00:16:07,900 --> 00:16:08,833
[REITMAN] He knows the story.

492
00:16:08,833 --> 00:16:10,366
[SMITH] They know the story.

493
00:16:10,366 --> 00:16:12,500
Again, no spoilers 
for them, either.

494
00:16:12,500 --> 00:16:14,333
[REITMAN] Honestly it was 
almost more complicated

495
00:16:14,333 --> 00:16:15,633
when I showed his 
daughter the movie,

496
00:16:15,633 --> 00:16:17,333
who is a character 
in the film as well,

497
00:16:17,333 --> 00:16:19,033
and who I got to know well.

498
00:16:19,033 --> 00:16:20,766
His daughter and I have 
something in common,

499
00:16:20,766 --> 00:16:23,200
in that we both carry 
a legacy for a living.

500
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,300
We were both born the 
children of famous people.

501
00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:29,000
And so, I told her that.

502
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,366
The first time, I said, 
"I know what it's like.

503
00:16:31,366 --> 00:16:33,400
I know what it's like 
to carry that legacy."

504
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,333
It's a strange thing 
to be born into that.

505
00:16:35,333 --> 00:16:38,933
And I said, "I'm making that 
movie with this in mind."

506
00:16:38,933 --> 00:16:40,500
[SMITH] Let me say a 
word about your dad,

507
00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:42,000
since you brought up

508
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:42,933
the fact that you're the 
child of a famous person.

509
00:16:42,933 --> 00:16:44,133
You're dad, Ivan Reitman,

510
00:16:44,133 --> 00:16:46,200
is one of the all 
time great directors.

511
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,633
In my lifetime, I think about 
three things that he did.

512
00:16:49,633 --> 00:16:51,366
I think about "Stripes."

513
00:16:51,366 --> 00:16:52,833
I think about "Ghostbusters."

514
00:16:52,833 --> 00:16:54,866
I think about "Meatballs."

515
00:16:54,866 --> 00:16:57,166
This is a director 
who figured out

516
00:16:57,166 --> 00:16:59,466
what to do with Bill Murray,

517
00:16:59,466 --> 00:17:03,466
before Wes Anderson, 
before anybody else.

518
00:17:03,466 --> 00:17:05,300
I mean, amazing.

519
00:17:05,300 --> 00:17:06,233
What did you learn?

520
00:17:06,233 --> 00:17:08,966
You were on those sets, right?

521
00:17:08,966 --> 00:17:11,466
[REITMAN] I was also on 
the set of "Animal House."

522
00:17:11,466 --> 00:17:12,866
[SMITH] He was a producer 
of "Animal House," right?

523
00:17:12,866 --> 00:17:15,233
[REITMAN] Yeah, 
imagine the impact.

524
00:17:15,233 --> 00:17:16,633
[SMITH] And you know what?

525
00:17:16,633 --> 00:17:17,533
I've seen that movie.

526
00:17:17,533 --> 00:17:19,000
It still holds up.

527
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,500
Well, in fact all those 
movies hold up that I named.

528
00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:23,300
[REITMAN] Yeah.

529
00:17:24,333 --> 00:17:25,600
"Animal House" has a lot of fans

530
00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,033
including Supreme 
Court justices now.

531
00:17:28,033 --> 00:17:31,200
[SMITH] Amazing, again, 
how far we've come.

532
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,833
[REITMAN] But, everything 
I know about storytelling

533
00:17:34,833 --> 00:17:37,166
I learned from my father, and..

534
00:17:37,166 --> 00:17:39,633
[SMITH] Is it stuff that 
you observed and took in

535
00:17:39,633 --> 00:17:41,066
or is it stuff that he told you?

536
00:17:41,066 --> 00:17:42,033
Did he sit down and say, 
these are the lessons?

537
00:17:42,033 --> 00:17:43,533
[REITMAN] It's the same.

538
00:17:43,533 --> 00:17:45,600
I grew up on these sets and 
grew up watching film sets

539
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:50,233
and being a part of the kind 
of circus that is that life,

540
00:17:50,233 --> 00:17:54,166
It's things like, the 
day my father said,

541
00:17:54,166 --> 00:17:56,100
"You gotta come over 
and watch '24.'"

542
00:17:56,100 --> 00:17:57,600
And I said, "What?"

543
00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,000
And he said, "You gotta 
come over and watch '24.'"

544
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,966
I said, "The Kiefer 
Sutherland show?"

545
00:18:00,966 --> 00:18:02,800
He said, "Yes, come on over."

546
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:04,366
So I went over to 
my dad's house.

547
00:18:04,366 --> 00:18:05,500
He has a movie 
theater in his house.

548
00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:06,700
We sat down, and we watched

549
00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:08,733
four episodes, four 
hours, of "24."

550
00:18:08,733 --> 00:18:12,166
And I said, "God, why 
is this show so good?

551
00:18:12,166 --> 00:18:14,033
Aren't there like a billion 
shows about terrorism?"

552
00:18:14,033 --> 00:18:17,533
And he said, "This isn't 
a show about terrorism.

553
00:18:17,533 --> 00:18:20,100
This is a show about a guy

554
00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:22,333
trying to keep his 
family together."

555
00:18:22,333 --> 00:18:23,600
[SMITH] He got it.

556
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,333
[REITMAN] He said, the 
location is terrorism.

557
00:18:25,333 --> 00:18:28,466
He said, "Never mistake your 
location for your story."

558
00:18:28,466 --> 00:18:29,300
It's like pfffff.

559
00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:30,733
[SMITH] He got it.

560
00:18:30,733 --> 00:18:32,166
[REITMAN] And then I 
go, "Oh that's right."

561
00:18:32,166 --> 00:18:33,800
Juno's not about teen pregnancy.

562
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,633
Teen pregnancy is a location.

563
00:18:36,633 --> 00:18:38,833
"Juno" is a movie 
about innocence

564
00:18:38,833 --> 00:18:40,700
and the moment you decide 
to become an adult,

565
00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:42,600
whether it's too 
early or too late.

566
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,933
And so it's lessons like that.

567
00:18:44,933 --> 00:18:47,366
Don't confuse your 
location for your story.

568
00:18:47,366 --> 00:18:49,733
The amount of ideas like that,

569
00:18:49,733 --> 00:18:52,200
that my father has given to me,

570
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,733
is the greatest film school 
any person could ever have.

571
00:18:54,733 --> 00:18:57,433
- "Thank You for Smoking" is 
based on a Chris Buckley book.

572
00:18:57,433 --> 00:18:59,800
"Up in the Air" is based 
on a Walter Kirn book.

573
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:01,333
In the case of "Juno,"

574
00:19:01,333 --> 00:19:02,533
I know that it's... [REITMAN] 
I have no original ideas.

575
00:19:02,533 --> 00:19:05,066
[SMITH] It's the Diablo 
Cody script, right?

576
00:19:05,066 --> 00:19:06,533
[REITMAN] Yeah.

577
00:19:06,533 --> 00:19:08,100
[SMITH] But I want to 
come back to the casting.

578
00:19:08,100 --> 00:19:10,300
You seem to be a particularly 
excellent director,

579
00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:13,366
as it relates to finding actors 
who are the right actors.

580
00:19:13,366 --> 00:19:14,566
I think about "Up in the Air,"

581
00:19:14,566 --> 00:19:15,766
and I think about 
"Juno," the challenge.

582
00:19:15,766 --> 00:19:18,266
You have George Clooney, 
who is literally

583
00:19:18,266 --> 00:19:19,800
one of the biggest 
stars in Hollywood,

584
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:21,833
a matinee idol, 
has done so much,

585
00:19:21,833 --> 00:19:24,733
and then you have Ellen 
Page, on the other hand.

586
00:19:24,733 --> 00:19:27,733
If this is not Ellen 
Page's first major project,

587
00:19:27,733 --> 00:19:29,933
it's nearly her entrance

588
00:19:29,933 --> 00:19:33,533
into this level of 
Hollywood success.

589
00:19:33,533 --> 00:19:35,900
The difference that you must,

590
00:19:35,900 --> 00:19:37,800
understanding who they 
are, and how they fit,

591
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,700
and how you direct them, I 
wish you wold reflect on that.

592
00:19:40,700 --> 00:19:42,266
- I am a director 
who has benefited

593
00:19:42,266 --> 00:19:44,466
from the luck of 
people saying yes.

594
00:19:44,466 --> 00:19:45,433
George said yes.

595
00:19:45,433 --> 00:19:46,266
Ellen said yes.

596
00:19:46,266 --> 00:19:47,666
Charlize said yes.

597
00:19:47,666 --> 00:19:49,866
These are the reason 
these movies are great.

598
00:19:49,866 --> 00:19:51,900
It's easy to think, you 
know who'd be a good idea?

599
00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:53,400
George Clooney.

600
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,200
It's that idea that he said yes 
that was way more important.

601
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:57,566
[SMITH] You know, if 
you're lucky in that case,

602
00:19:57,566 --> 00:19:59,200
you get Jon Hamm, 
if you're lucky.

603
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:00,433
You don't get George Clooney.

604
00:20:00,433 --> 00:20:01,933
[REITMAN] I'd love to 
work with Jon Hamm.

605
00:20:01,933 --> 00:20:04,900
But look, Ellen Page is an 
extraordinary young actress.

606
00:20:04,900 --> 00:20:06,200
I had seen a movie 
called "Hard Candy"

607
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:07,466
that she was phenomenal in.

608
00:20:07,466 --> 00:20:08,666
I knew that she was 
right for the role.

609
00:20:08,666 --> 00:20:09,733
[SMITH] But she 
really was not long

610
00:20:09,733 --> 00:20:11,200
in the business at that point.

611
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:12,700
[REITMAN] She was not well 
known, but I knew who she was,

612
00:20:12,700 --> 00:20:15,066
and the people who had tracked 
her knew how gifted she was.

613
00:20:15,066 --> 00:20:16,233
Michael Cera I knew from

614
00:20:16,233 --> 00:20:17,900
"Arrested Development" 
at that point.

615
00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:20,466
Jen Garner and Jason Bateman 
I knew from other things.

616
00:20:20,466 --> 00:20:23,900
[SMITH] A little bit again, 
just talk about that.

617
00:20:23,900 --> 00:20:27,233
Jen Garner, Jason Bateman, 
J.K. Simmons, Michael Cera.

618
00:20:27,233 --> 00:20:28,500
- Allison Janney.

619
00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:30,066
Juno's parents both 
have Oscars now.

620
00:20:30,066 --> 00:20:31,500
Allison Janney and J.K. Simmons.

621
00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:32,533
[SMITH] And J.K. Simmons, 
isn't that amazing?

622
00:20:32,533 --> 00:20:34,933
[REITMAN] Yeah. So...

623
00:20:34,933 --> 00:20:38,666
Look, my father once said to me,

624
00:20:38,666 --> 00:20:40,666
"Don't worry about 
it being funny.

625
00:20:40,666 --> 00:20:42,866
Your barometer for comedy 
will never be as strong

626
00:20:42,866 --> 00:20:44,366
as your barometer for truth.

627
00:20:44,366 --> 00:20:47,233
Your job on set is to ask 
yourself, do you believe it?"

628
00:20:47,233 --> 00:20:49,733
And that's it. That's your job.

629
00:20:49,733 --> 00:20:51,566
How the conversation 
happens, when they sit down,

630
00:20:51,566 --> 00:20:54,133
stand up, whether 
someone gets elevated,

631
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:57,966
whether a conversation 
should end sooner,

632
00:20:57,966 --> 00:20:59,800
their clothes, their 
hair, the room.

633
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,233
Ask yourself, do you believe it?

634
00:21:01,233 --> 00:21:05,000
[SMITH] But that's 
ultimately about execution.

635
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,500
[REITMAN] Uh huh.

636
00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:08,433
- It's not about the choice of

637
00:21:08,433 --> 00:21:10,833
whether the story is worth 
telling to begin with.

638
00:21:10,833 --> 00:21:13,100
I come back to the 
Gary Hart story.

639
00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:16,166
I'd say, you had to see 
"Thank You for Smoking"

640
00:21:16,166 --> 00:21:18,133
in print to think,

641
00:21:18,133 --> 00:21:21,433
I can turn this into a great 
film, or "Up in the Air."

642
00:21:21,433 --> 00:21:22,933
"Up in the Air," of 
those three, seems to me

643
00:21:22,933 --> 00:21:27,533
to be the least likely 
narrative to transform into,

644
00:21:27,533 --> 00:21:29,433
what I think is, an 
unbelievably compelling...

645
00:21:29,433 --> 00:21:31,233
I happen to love that movie.

646
00:21:31,233 --> 00:21:33,400
I think it's an amazing 
film, but I don't know

647
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,900
that I would have read the 
book and thought it's a movie.

648
00:21:35,900 --> 00:21:37,600
[REITMAN] Well, you tell 
stories 'cause you have to.

649
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:38,900
[SMITH] Yeah.

650
00:21:38,900 --> 00:21:41,500
[REITMAN] They're 
too hard otherwise.

651
00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:43,633
They require too much sacrifice.

652
00:21:43,633 --> 00:21:48,000
You give up on friends and 
family to go make movies.

653
00:21:49,433 --> 00:21:51,033
[SMITH] How long did it 
take to make the Hart movie?

654
00:21:51,033 --> 00:21:52,733
[REITMAN] I've been working 
on that for three years,

655
00:21:52,733 --> 00:21:54,000
but "Up in the Air,"

656
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,900
I worked on that script 
alone for seven years.

657
00:21:55,900 --> 00:21:57,733
[SMITH] Seven years.

658
00:21:57,733 --> 00:21:59,000
[REITMAN] Yeah.

659
00:21:59,000 --> 00:21:59,966
[SMTIH] And there's 
no guarantee that

660
00:21:59,966 --> 00:22:01,466
at the end of those seven years

661
00:22:01,466 --> 00:22:02,966
you're gonna have a movie 
you'd wanna make or could make.

662
00:22:02,966 --> 00:22:04,333
[REITMAN] No, I've worked 
on scripts for just as long

663
00:22:04,333 --> 00:22:05,833
that have never been made.

664
00:22:05,833 --> 00:22:08,633
So, you dedicate yourself 
to something, because...

665
00:22:08,633 --> 00:22:10,766
usually when I read a 
book, or I read an article,

666
00:22:10,766 --> 00:22:12,133
or I read a script 
that I wanna tell,

667
00:22:12,133 --> 00:22:13,600
it's because there's a question

668
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,233
that's been chewing away at me, 
and I don't have the answer.

669
00:22:16,233 --> 00:22:17,600
And then I read a book 
like Walter Kirn's book,

670
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:19,833
and I go, oh, there it is.

671
00:22:19,833 --> 00:22:23,533
And somehow between him and 
I, I think there's the answer.

672
00:22:23,533 --> 00:22:25,433
And so, I try to 
follow up on it.

673
00:22:25,433 --> 00:22:27,700
And, the process 
of making the movie

674
00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:31,133
is the process of me trying 
to answer my great questions.

675
00:22:32,300 --> 00:22:34,166
[SMITH] I think that's 
absolutely fascinating.

676
00:22:34,166 --> 00:22:37,400
We sit there and only 
see the last part.

677
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,533
It's like the visible 
part of the iceberg.

678
00:22:39,533 --> 00:22:41,033
We don't see the submerged part.

679
00:22:41,033 --> 00:22:43,000
But there is this whole 
process that goes into it,

680
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,633
and, again, there's no guarantee

681
00:22:44,633 --> 00:22:47,066
that any of this 
is going to work.

682
00:22:47,066 --> 00:22:50,733
- Well, "Up in the Air" was a 
movie that, on its face value,

683
00:22:50,733 --> 00:22:52,233
is about a guy 
collecting air miles

684
00:22:52,233 --> 00:22:53,766
and firing people for a living.

685
00:22:55,133 --> 00:22:57,800
But underneath, 
was this question.

686
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,966
Is it a given that we are 
supposed to find someone

687
00:22:59,966 --> 00:23:01,833
and spend the rest of 
our life with them?

688
00:23:01,833 --> 00:23:03,733
[SMTIH] Exactly, it's a 
movie about loneliness.

689
00:23:03,733 --> 00:23:04,933
That's really what it's about.

690
00:23:04,933 --> 00:23:05,866
[REITMAN] And there's 
this given in life

691
00:23:05,866 --> 00:23:06,966
that we are gonna find something

692
00:23:06,966 --> 00:23:08,433
that will be a viable pursuit

693
00:23:08,433 --> 00:23:10,333
that will make 
life worth living.

694
00:23:10,333 --> 00:23:12,166
And in it, you have 
a main character

695
00:23:12,166 --> 00:23:13,266
who's presenting the argument,

696
00:23:13,266 --> 00:23:14,966
no, life is better lived alone,

697
00:23:14,966 --> 00:23:16,533
and the most worthy goal in life

698
00:23:16,533 --> 00:23:18,233
is to collect 
billions of air miles,

699
00:23:18,233 --> 00:23:20,033
and that should be your pursuit.

700
00:23:20,033 --> 00:23:22,466
Collecting something 
meaningless, ephemera.

701
00:23:22,466 --> 00:23:24,333
And he presents that 
argument really well.

702
00:23:24,333 --> 00:23:27,000
So much so that his 
heart is broken.

703
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,866
And that was the idea.

704
00:23:29,866 --> 00:23:32,033
I've thought myself about that.

705
00:23:32,033 --> 00:23:33,200
[SMITH] You made it into a

706
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,733
much more compelling 
story though,

707
00:23:34,733 --> 00:23:36,566
than I would submit, than 
it was there on the page.

708
00:23:36,566 --> 00:23:38,766
You basically created 
Anna Kendrick.

709
00:23:38,766 --> 00:23:40,166
It feels like to me.

710
00:23:40,166 --> 00:23:44,700
- I would argue that the 
Kendricks created Anna Kendrick.

711
00:23:44,700 --> 00:23:46,600
[SMITH] Fact check, true.

712
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,533
In a literal sense I 
would agree with you.

713
00:23:48,533 --> 00:23:50,466
But, again, it's 
the eye for acting,

714
00:23:50,466 --> 00:23:52,433
and for seeing who would be 
right for a particular part.

715
00:23:52,433 --> 00:23:54,433
I mean, that wasn't 
her first film.

716
00:23:54,433 --> 00:23:56,200
[REITMAN] No, she was in a 
film called "Rocket Science,"

717
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:57,733
and it was spectacular,

718
00:23:57,733 --> 00:23:59,966
but I saw that and wrote the 
role for her because of that.

719
00:23:59,966 --> 00:24:02,033
[SMITH] So we just have a 
couple minutes left. What now?

720
00:24:02,033 --> 00:24:03,300
What are you doin'?

721
00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:04,800
Come on, spill it out.

722
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,633
Well, this is my second movie 
in six months after "Tully,"

723
00:24:06,633 --> 00:24:08,733
so sleep would sound nice.

724
00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:11,900
[SMTIH] Are you looking 
for something to do?

725
00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:13,333
Do you typically have 
things in the works?

726
00:24:13,333 --> 00:24:14,566
[REITMAN] I'm always writing.

727
00:24:14,566 --> 00:24:16,333
There's a couple pilots 
I actually might make.

728
00:24:16,333 --> 00:24:18,566
I might do something 
new with Diablo.

729
00:24:20,566 --> 00:24:22,566
[SMITH] You've done 
some TV stuff before.

730
00:24:22,566 --> 00:24:24,833
[REITMAN] Yeah I made 
a show called "Casual"

731
00:24:24,833 --> 00:24:27,366
that was on Hulu for four 
seasons, and it's fantastic.

732
00:24:27,366 --> 00:24:29,533
If you haven't seen it, 
it's worth checking out.

733
00:24:29,533 --> 00:24:34,100
[SMITH] Is the TV is the 
new movies meme or rap now?

734
00:24:34,100 --> 00:24:35,500
[REITMAN] This is why I 
disagree with that idea,

735
00:24:35,500 --> 00:24:37,166
and this is why I prefer movies.

736
00:24:37,166 --> 00:24:38,466
Movies have an ending.

737
00:24:38,466 --> 00:24:40,033
And I think an ending 
is really important.

738
00:24:40,033 --> 00:24:42,066
I think the whole point 
of a movie is the ending.

739
00:24:42,066 --> 00:24:44,066
The first thing I think 
of when I think of a movie

740
00:24:44,066 --> 00:24:44,900
is the ending.

741
00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:46,133
[SMITH] Seriously?

742
00:24:46,133 --> 00:24:48,033
- Yeah, because the 
whole point of a film

743
00:24:48,033 --> 00:24:50,400
is to go through experience, 
and then to be shoved

744
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,000
out the door of the 
theater by the director

745
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,700
and to confront the 
rest of your life

746
00:24:53,700 --> 00:24:55,866
through the filter of the 
movie you just watched.

747
00:24:55,866 --> 00:24:57,100
TV has no ending.

748
00:24:57,100 --> 00:24:59,533
The ending of a TV show 
is join us next week.

749
00:24:59,533 --> 00:25:01,666
And then they start giving 
you the trailer for next week,

750
00:25:01,666 --> 00:25:02,900
and it never ends.

751
00:25:02,900 --> 00:25:05,066
And it just kind of 
is this ongoing saga.

752
00:25:05,066 --> 00:25:06,933
TV is having coffee 
with friends.

753
00:25:06,933 --> 00:25:09,066
A film, it's like 
a Kubrick film.

754
00:25:09,066 --> 00:25:11,933
[SMTIH] So, "Casual" 
wasn't a four season film

755
00:25:11,933 --> 00:25:13,433
in the way that 
you conceived it.

756
00:25:13,433 --> 00:25:15,833
[REITMAN] No, and "Casual" 
was joyful, and it was fun,

757
00:25:15,833 --> 00:25:17,866
and I loved the writers, 
and I loved the actors,

758
00:25:17,866 --> 00:25:19,300
and I loved working on it,

759
00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:24,300
but my life pursuit 
is making movies.

760
00:25:24,300 --> 00:25:28,100
[SMITH] I'm so happy to hear 
you still like to do this

761
00:25:28,100 --> 00:25:29,466
after this amount of time.

762
00:25:29,466 --> 00:25:31,133
It's great. It's like 
you don't get bored.

763
00:25:31,133 --> 00:25:32,633
You don't get cynical.

764
00:25:32,633 --> 00:25:34,133
You just seem to still be 
enjoying making movies.

765
00:25:34,133 --> 00:25:35,100
[REITMAN] I haven't 
been doing it that long.

766
00:25:35,100 --> 00:25:36,333
Give me a little toe tap.

767
00:25:36,333 --> 00:25:38,633
[SMITH] Ah, you know what?

768
00:25:38,633 --> 00:25:40,400
There are people who 
would be happy to stop

769
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,200
after the great movies 
that you've made.

770
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:44,200
[REITMAN] Ah, 
that's kind of you.

771
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:45,633
[SMTIH] Take the win.

772
00:25:45,633 --> 00:25:47,033
Mr. Reitman, a great 
honor to be with you, sir.

773
00:25:47,033 --> 00:25:48,266
[REITMAN] Thank you very much.

774
00:25:48,266 --> 00:25:49,366
[SMTIH] Good to see 
you. Congratulations.

775
00:25:49,366 --> 00:25:52,366
(audience claps)

776
00:25:53,833 --> 00:25:55,500
[SMTIH] We'd love to have 
you join us in the studio.

777
00:25:55,500 --> 00:25:59,566
Visit our website at 
KLRU.org/overheard

778
00:25:59,566 --> 00:26:01,766
to find invitations 
to interviews,

779
00:26:01,766 --> 00:26:03,800
Q and As with our 
audience and guests,

780
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,766
and an archive of past episodes.

781
00:26:06,766 --> 00:26:10,266
(relaxing pop rock music)

782
00:26:27,033 --> 00:26:31,300
Funding for Overheard with Evan 
Smith is provided in part by

783
00:26:31,300 --> 00:26:35,366
HillCo Partners, a Texas 
government affairs consultancy,

784
00:26:35,366 --> 00:26:38,033
The Alice Kleberg 
Reynolds Foundation,

785
00:26:38,033 --> 00:26:40,033
Claire and Carl Stuart,

786
00:26:40,033 --> 00:26:41,900
and by Entergy.