>>This week on NewsNight, the search for solutions in Pine Hills.
>>This is not just a gun violence conversation.
This is really an economic conversation.
>>A community ponders the future following another gun violence tragedy.
NewsNight starts now.
[MUSIC] Hello, I'm Steve Mort, and welcome to NewsNight, where we take an in-depth look at the top stories and issues in central Florida and how they affect all of us.
The shooting in Pine Hills last month that left three people dead, including a nine year old girl, has once again focused attention on a central Florida community that has long struggled with crime and socioeconomic issues.
Tonight, we take an in-depth look at Pine Hills and where the community goes from here.
My colleague Krystel Knowles has spent the last couple of weeks talking to people in Pine Hills, and she joins me here in the studio now.
Thanks for being here, Krystel.
Let's start with those in the community itself.
You had a chance to sit down with the president of the Pine Hills Community Council, Sandra Fatmi-Hall.
What does she believe is at the root of the violence that seems to plague that community?
>>She says it all can start with unemployment, which leads to poverty.
But then some people have a job or two jobs, but the wages are not keeping up with the costs of living.
So the parents have to be gone all day and with not enough afterschool programs for the kids, the kids end up in the street.
So Sandra Fatmi-Hall founded the United Foundation of Central Florida to provide food distribution, afterschool mentoring and educational scholarships.
But she says getting enough funding is always a struggle.
>>I'm a fabric of this community, a fabric of this community that knows the good and the bad.
And I'm doing everything possible with the village to do what we can to turn that around.
And with the recent happenings, it's even more work to be done.
Won't give up.
Absolutely not.
Servant, leader.
Servant leaders can't give up.
We have hard times that people are facing.
We have health issues, but we're willing to work with them.
We talk about resources that are there every single day.
But I also think that we can do a better job of pushing it out there for the people that really need it.
We don't want to do a handout.
We want to do a hand up.
>>That was Sandra Fatmi-Hall there.
Krystel, you spoke with a senior pastor and resident in that community who grew up in Pine Hills and has seen that community change over the years.
And I'm wondering from what you heard from him, where does he see the community now and where it goes from here?
>>Well, Derrick McRae has seen this time and time again.
Crime happens in the neighborhood.
Everybody's up in arms wanting to create change.
The community is grieving, but things are not going to change until there's financial resources.
>>There are programs that are working.
There tend to be underfunded.
And we really need to figure out how do we put money back into those programs.
Let's start at something small and be committed to going to something large.
We got to get back into positioning parents to do that parent.
We got to get back into giving parents the resources that are needed to raise their families.
Parents have to decide that they're going to really invest in their kids and we're going to not have kids until we're ready to really support kids.
>>Derrick McRae there.
What about law enforcement, Krystel?
You spoke with the Orange County sheriff, John Mina, about this.
How does he view the situation in Pine Hills, from a law enforcement standpoint?
>>He's been patrolling that neighborhood for over two decades, and he says their reputation is worse than it actually deserves.
And in fact, they're not the most dangerous city in the county.
However, his department does tend to have extra officers on patrol in that neighborhood because of what he does call a few bad players.
>>Well, thank you so much for your reporting, Krystel.
Really appreciate it.
Before we turn to our panel, let's hear from the sheriff, John Mina.
>>I tell our deputies that, you know, they need to have a positive conversation.
An interaction with our community every single day and especially our youth.
I think the conversation doesn't have to start with, you know, let me see your ID.
You know, how about have a positive interaction?
And they see those opportunities.
I get the the compliments emails every single day from members of that community, others about the great job that our deputies are doing.
We have done a really good job of targeting those folks who are committing crimes in that community, specifically gang members and drug dealers.
And, you know, we have made thousands of arrests in that area.
We have taken hundreds and hundreds of guns off the street.
And so that that has helped mitigate some of those violent crimes from from happening.
>>Sheriff John Mina there.
Well, let's bring in our panel now to break it all down.
Joining us in the studio this week, Daralene Jones from WFTV Channel 9 afternoon anchor over there at Channel 9.
Thanks for being here, Daralene.
Joe Mario Petersen from 90.7 WMFE News coming back to us again.
Thanks for coming in, Joe Mario.
And also in the studio, Curtis McCloud from Spectrum News 13 covers a lot of issues over there at Channel 13.
So thanks for being here, Curtis Appreciate you guys joining us for this important conversation today.
Daralene, let me start with you on this one.
We hear so many theories about the causes of violence, you know, whether it's poverty, food insecurity, health, gangs, drugs and so on.
When you talk to people in the community, to what do they attribute the causes of these violent incidents that we see all too often?
>>Well, you know, the first thing I want to make clear, as we have discussed previously, Pine Hills, is not this rampant crime ridden community that people think it out to be.
In fact, I live literally a mile and a half, two miles from what is considered Pine Hills.
I feel very safe every single day I go home and there are many people who feel very safe living in the Pine Hills community and other communities where we experience crime.
But what the people in these communities would attribute to the crime is the fact that in some instances they have been forgotten.
They are often on the outskirts of community where government leaders sometimes have forgotten about the resources that they also need.
When you think about a community like a Pine Hills or Paramore, even areas on the east side of Orange County.
Think about the food insecurity that exists there.
Some of those communities don't even have a grocery store within walking distance.
They don't have great access to health care.
They don't have great access to jobs, transportation to get to, to jobs.
And so there are layered issues within these communities where we are experiencing some crime problems.
>>And I hope we can get to some of those issues.
Curtis, let me ask you this.
In the wake of the shootings last month, the community held a gathering right in Pine Hills to sort of try to find some solutions to this gun violence issue.
What kinds of solutions are community leaders eyeing?
>>They were a number of things, Steve.
Some of those talked about at one of those meetings, particularly, you know, providing more mental health resources for people.
There.
Also, some of those resources, including some afterschool programs, things that students may be able to get involved in, people in the community to just help deter them from some of the the violent nature that may be on the streets there.
Now, I will also say that some of the ideas that people kind of proposed as a way to kind of deter crime or, you know, some ways is they're talked about putting cameras up and maybe having a more watchful eye so that they can have these cameras in the community to help law enforcement with, you know, trying to track down people that may be responsible for crimes or even to deter people that may want to come into those communities and do or commit some sort of criminal activities.
>>Cameras, of course, that their own set of problems when it comes to people sort of being surveilled a lot.
>>Right.
Right.
>>All of our networks have covered this issue a lot.
Joe Mario, WMFE is currently putting together some special coverage on issues facing Pine Hills community.
As you plan that out, what are you hearing from people in that community?
>>Well, we've been talking a lot about the challenges that they're facing.
Right.
And Daralene actually hit on a couple of these already.
I think the first one that we kept running into is resources.
Right.
That that community just isn't getting the resources that it needs.
And we're not just talking about money that's going to companies that's going to help develop Pine Hills, but specifically companies from Pine Hills who know Pine Hills that can develop around Pine Hills the way that that community needs them.
Right.
So we're talking about having more jobs back in that community, having an outlet for recreational resources.
Right.
The other big thing that we keep hearing is changing the perception of Pine Hills.
Right?
That has a really unfavorable nickname, right?
Crime Hills.
And that's very much something that the community wants to take back because they're not Crime Hills.
They are much more than that.
They have a lot of things that they're proud of and there's a lot of things that are coming soon, right?
There's a multicultural center that's in development right now.
There's a Korean Caribbean supermarket.
That's huge.
It's awesome.
There's a Chinese market over there.
Chinatown, right.
In fact, the Chinatown gate on Colonial just celebrated its 10th anniversary.
And in development right now over at the Agape Complex, which has a pretty problematic history.
We just heard from Bishop McRae, who's purchased that complex and wants to redevelop it into this Christian Experience center, not only as a religious outlet for people, but also offering recreational outlet, offering a place for people to develop jobs as well.
So trying to give people resources and therefore changing the perceptions.
>>And it's interesting that Krystel Knowles said she ran into that a lot.
People really kind of resent that Crime Hills-- >>They do.
I ran into a woman, a longtime Pine Hills resident, recently at an event, and she said, Hey, we need to chat.
And she was very direct and affirmative.
And I said, What's going on?
And she said, Every time there is something reported about Pine Hills, it is about a crime, violence happening.
She said, Why don't you all report on the positive?
And I thought, you know what?
She has a valid point.
>>Yeah, we did a listening session a couple of years ago and we heard a lot of that.
Daralene, in Orange County is reconstitution reconstituted the Citizens Safety Taskforce.
That was originally set up two years ago.
Right.
To sort of come up with recommendations on gun violence.
What did it suggest back in 2021?
And what the county leaders hope to get out of it this time?
>>So this task force was set up, essentially they came up with the idea in August of 2020.
I can remember being at that news conference specifically because I had done a series of reporting on gun violence and we had sort of pieced together an investigation that showed gangs were, in fact a problem in our community, not just in Orange County, but in Orlando.
And finally got law enforcement to admit this because of our reporting.
It did lead to some arrest eventually.
Some of those cases are still pending.
But the county thought, hey, let's have this citizen safety task force to try to tackle the issue.
Well, it took a while.
They had 120 days to try to look and come up with some solutions.
But, you know, and I hesitate to say this, but I will say that one of the issues when you have these task force initiatives is, is there got to be ongoing accountability in place.
There has got to be structures in place.
Mentoring is great, programing is great, but there's got to be structure set up and accountability along the way to make sure that government funding going into these programs is actually being accounted for.
You can't just give someone a half a million dollars and say, start a mentoring program.
There's a reason the Boys and Girls Club programing works.
It's structured, it's in place, it's trusted.
So there has to be accountability for what the government is using this money for.
>>Curtis, The Citizens Safety Task Force is sort of funding, right?
A new youth violence prevention program in Orange County that was established earlier this month.
Channel 13 has covered that program.
What will this body be doing?
>>Essentially, what they're doing is kind of sorta it's supposed to be set up to do what Daralene is talking about.
It's supposed to kind of be a little bit of that accountability piece, but also providing mentorship resources to these agencies and so that they can go out in the community and provide it to the youth in the community.
Now, again, there comes this thing when you're allocating that that much money.
And I think at this point it was somewhere it was more than $500,000.
You're allocating that much money to groups and organizations.
There has to be checks and balances on that money.
So it's supposed to go towards creating mentorship programs, creating outreach programs so that youth have some constructive things to do so that it would then deter them from a path of crime.
But it remains to be seen because, you know, we've been at this game for a long time where you say we want to set up certain programs and set up certain initiatives, but what happens to that money?
Is it tracked.
You know, recently we started looking into those funds because it goes back to 2020.
Where has the money gone?
Follow the money.
Where's the money going?
How is it being used?
And is it really going to where they say it's going?
>>Because it's been allocated before.
I've been working in this market for many years and this has happened before.
And here we are again ten years later, and we are faced with the same problem.
That initiative is getting $900,000.
And so certainly you have to make sure that it is being accounted for.
But also, I would say that it's still throwing money out there.
There's got to be an overarching look at what is happening and why we have violence here in our communities.
And law enforcement will say, well, it's 10% of the population committing the violent crime.
Well, what are we doing other than just trying to arrest our way out of that problem?
>>This is true.
>>You mentioned mental health in your first answer, and I want to talk about mental health now.
First, let's hear from Senator Geraldine Thompson, whose district includes Pine Hills.
>>When you don't have grandparents and you don't have parents necessarily involved in the upbringing of a child, you have a lot of behavior that can lead to some of the things that we saw happen.
Our churches used to be places of refuge and people, particularly after the pandemic, had stopped actually congregating at the churches.
So they didn't have the spiritual guidance that they needed.
And we have a lot of problems with mental health.
And, you know, we're not really focused on that as much as we should be.
>>Senator Geraldine Thompson there.
Joe Mario, let me come to you on this one.
What about that point that the senator raised there about mental health?
Do experts say violence in communities can take a toll on residents mental well-being?
>>Yeah, absolutely.
It absolutely has this trickle down effect that, you know, reinforces that there is this negativity pervasive through the community, right?
>>Yeah.
>>Curtis, you mentioned earlier this the town hall meeting.
Right?
And there was a mental health counselor at that town hall meeting from Evans High, I believe.
And the point that they were trying to make about mental health in particular was early intervention was key in getting through to these kids who are taking this anger that they are developing in the household, anger that might come from trauma or from lack of parental support.
And they're taking it out on the streets.
And the majority of the gun violence that we're seeing is, you know, teenagers or young 20 somethings.
So they want to be able to find these kids in elementary school who need this help, who need mentorship or some kind of outlet to recreational activities and getting them these counselors and getting them the help that they need.
>>And before we move on, Daralene, you put together a piece recently on mentorship programs.
What kind of role do they play in the patchwork of potential solutions?
>>They're critical because you can get a mentorship program and get children, youth specifically in these smaller group environments and get them attached to someone who show them what love is, who shows them what it means to make something of yourself, who essentially is a role model for them when you get children at a young age.
Elementary age, they're looking for hope.
You know, they are dealing with trauma.
They are dealing with a lot of mental health issues that we don't really know about.
But what they're looking for is an outlet of hope, someone to say, you know what, you don't have to be a subject of your circumstances.
>>You can find much more from the interviews on Pine Hills that you saw at the top of the program on our website.
It's all at wucf.org/newsnight.
I want to talk now about the so-called progressive prosecutor movement.
We talked last week on the program about the controversy over the Orange and Osceola State Attorney's Office and its handling of prior cases.
The Orlando Sentinel reported this week that tensions between Monique Worrells office and Sheriff John Mina began months before the Pine Hill shootings.
You can find a link to that reporting on our website as well.
She's now facing backlash from the Orlando Police Department over her decision to drop charges against a teenager suspected in a deadly shooting outside of Jones High School football game.
She cites insufficient evidence.
Curtis, you've spoken recently with Monique Worrell.
Some on the right say they feel that progressive prosecutors are partly to blame for the increase in violent crime, weve sort of heard that from Senator Scott and the governor as well.
How do they draw that conclusion and why do others push back on that?
>>Essentially, it starts with the fact that they say that, you know, hey, the method where she is more so trying to find outreach programs or trying to find alternative methods than, you know, locking up some of these these criminals or these juveniles in a sense, or giving them longer sentences or whatever.
She's trying to find alternatives.
They say that's not the approach we need right here.
We need to get we need to show them tough love from the very beginning if they need to be charged that as adults, but based on the crimes and we should do that.
Do you treat them as such?
Because, you know, they they are they've shown that they are repeat offenders, that their crimes are habitual and that this is something that needs to take place in order to in their in their mindset, to steer them the right way.
>>I think the biggest thing is that people have to have an understanding of how the criminal justice system works.
And I think that as reporters, as journalists, we have a responsibility to educate the public on how it works.
Law enforcement has the ability to arrest.
It takes very little to make an arrest.
You just have to have probable cause.
Prosecutors then have the ability to charge someone with a crime.
It's a higher bar.
You've got to have evidence that you believe can be proved in a courtroom beyond a reasonable doubt.
And so when you see this back and forth between law enforcement and some of these so-called progressive prosecutors, their thing is not just that we should have alternatives to arresting and, you know, prison time, but their thing also is bring me a case that actually can be prosecuted in a courtroom with real evidence.
And I think for so long there have been prosecutors who were willing to just take every case they could to trial or also force people into plea agreements.
And I think some of the prosecutors in Monique Worrells office are saying were looking at these cases to make sure we actually have evidence to prosecute and actually take a case to a courtroom, to a jury and and get a favorable outcome.
And I think in some cases, law enforcement may not be used to that.
>>And that's why I wanted to jump off of because I know that with with Keith Moses, the suspect, and there was this situation where he there was a prior arrest that he was involved in and it involved a gun.
And I had a conversation with Monique Worrell about that.
And she was saying, you know, the sheriff was very adamant, saying, hey, we need to make sure that, you know, that that case should have been it should have been he should have been held because of that gun, because of that charge.
Well, Moniques saying there was not enough evidence here.
Hey, we've done all we've done our due diligence with this case.
We've looked at it.
But there's there's not enough here for us to just to say that this guy is going to be held on this gun charge.
>>That the sheriff's office has also been under the spotlight for its role in that.
>>They have and they have been because we did we basically asked to and, you know, here's the thing about reporting.
Sometimes you get together and you have to go play both sides a little bit because it's like a back and forth type of thing.
But we've been we did a little bit more digging and we asked the sheriff's office, we said, hey, okay, The Monique Worrells office, the state's attorney's office is saying, hey, there's not enough evidence here.
They're saying that in order for them to actually prosecute said individual is they have to have proof that this gun belongs that individual.
Well, there had needed to be subsequent testing to say that this gun you know, there were fingerprints on that gun, they didnt test the gun.
>>And even I'll take it a step further.
I've done extensive reporting on gun crime and I've interviewed, you know, crime scene analysts and the folks at the FDLE lab.
And one of the things that they will tell you is that getting a conviction solely based on fingerprints from a gun is difficult because specifically when you're talking about illegal guns and guns that have been used and sold and used and sold multiple times, it's going to have a number of fingerprints on it, which is why you need subsequent evidence.
And eyewitnesses are important.
And so these are very layered things.
And I actually wish that when we report on crime, and when we report on these cases of charges being dropped and things not going to trial.
And people being arrested and released, that we would actually educate the public and our viewers about the entire process and not do these quick hits.
You know, flashing headlines, extensive reporting and digging into these things.
It's critical.
It is our job.
We have a responsibility to tell the full story.
>>Another reason why journalism is so important, I guess.
Joe Mario, let me just finish this part with you.
There is this real debate, right, about prosecutorial discretion and the election of state attorneys.
I guess we're seeing that playing out right now with former President Donald Trump right in in Manhattan.
Given that state prosecutors are elected, are essentially politicians.
Is it inevitable that politics always comes into this?
>>I mean, research would say yes.
And by the very nature that it is an electable position will ultimately guide the behavior of the prosecutor.
Right.
They will do what is in the best interest of them retaining that position.
>>Same with the sheriff's.
>>Same with sheriffs.
Right.
Right.
Electable positions.
Right.
It makes sense.
That's what's going to motivate you.
You know, there are certain certain phrases, right?
Racially charged language such as like tough on crime, which seems to really resonate with a voter base.
So as Darlaene was saying, with with that being a strong phrase that they want to pursue, they're going to increase the amount of prosecutions that they that they go after.
Right.
So ultimately, yeah, it's going to guide their behavior.
>>Really interesting discussion.
In the meantime, be sure to join the conversation yourself on social media.
We're at WUCFTV on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram as well.
Finally tonight, guns.
The Florida legislature is moving forward with a bill that would allow Floridians to carry a firearm without obtaining a permit.
Supporters say it protects Floridians Second Amendment rights.
Opponents say it will make people less safe.
Take a look at this back and forth in committee between two state senators on either side of the debate.
>>Are you aware that guns are right now the leading cause of death of children in America?
>>Senator Berman, There are statistics on many sides of this equation that can be cherry picked and there are many causes.
And as a dad and someone who takes that very serious, we are all for responsible gun ownership.
And and that's why we're doing this.
>>So if guns are causing children to die, don't you think we should be doing something to limit guns, access to guns, rather than increase it?
>>No, I do not.
There is a constitutional right to keep and bear arms, and that's is what we're fighting for right now.
That is what our discussion is on.
We cannot make or legislate people to make wise decisions.
But ignorance and making poor choices is something that is an individual responsibility and right.
>>Well, the White House reiterated its position that there should be more gun control legislation following the shootings in Pine Hills and Orlando Congressman Maxwell Frost has filed a bill to create an Office of Gun Violence Prevention.
Daralene, critics of permitless carry say that these efforts in the legislature will increase gun violence.
How did gun control advocates and even some gun retailers draw that conclusion?
>>Well, essentially, it's very interesting because they think that it will do what is actually already being done.
People are already carrying guns without a permit.
And so I think it just depends on where you are on either side of this.
You know how people are going to get a gun if they want to have a gun with or without a permit.
And it begs the question of are the people who are getting the permits, the ones out there committing the violent crimes, or is it the people who are going to decide to get a gun anyway by any means necessary who are actually out there committing the crimes?
And so it's, you know.
>>Yeah, it's it's a discussion.
Curtis, final word to you.
The Florida Sheriffs Association and the Florida Police Chiefs Association, I think back permitless carry.
Why would law enforcement agencies support such a move if critics are right that it would increase gun violence?
>>I think it goes back to kind of what Daralene was saying.
People are going to get they get a gun and those people that want them are going to get them and also those people.
A lot of people do have guns without permits anyway already.
So their, thier thought process is along those lines that, you know, without with a government piece of paper, you're not going to be able that's that's it's not a sign of responsible gun ownership.
>>It's sort of maybe maybe popular and something.
>>Checking a box.
>>Right.
And that's exactly it.
That's exactly what it's doing.
You know, for most people who have pretty much already crossed that threshold already anyway.
>>Yeah, what a really fascinating discussion, guys.
Thank you so much for coming in and talking with us today.
Just a reminder, we're recording this program on Thursday morning as the full Florida House prepares to take up the permetless carry bill so things can, of course, change by airtime.
Meanwhile, you can find us online at wucf.org/newsnight.
But that is all the time we have for this week.
My thanks to Daralene Jones, Joe Mario Peterson and Curtis McCloud, Spectrum News 13.
Thank you for coming in, guys.
Well see you next Friday night at 8:30 here on WUCF.
From all of us here at NewsNight, take care and have a great week.