>> Thompson: JOINING ME NOW FOR

MORE ON THIS DEVELOPING STORY IS

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, HOMELAND

SECURITY REPORTER FOR THE "NEW

YORK TIMES."

I WANTED TO THANK YOU VERY MUCH

FOR BEING WITH US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> Thompson: I WANTED TO FIRST

ASK YOU ABOUT McALEENAN'S

TENURE, HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

I MEAN, DURING HIS SIX MONTHS ON

THE JOB, HE LARGELY DELIVERED

WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTED DOWN

AT THE SOUTHERN BORDER, RIGHT?

>> YES, I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO

REMEMBER THE TIME IN WHICH KEVIN

McALEENAN ASSUMED THE POSITION

AS THE HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT OF

HOMELAND SECURITY.

HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY

KIRSTEN NEILSEN HAD JUST BEEN

FORCED OUT OF THE POSITION BY

THE PRESIDENT, WHO WAS

INFURIATED OVER THE NUMBER OF

BORDER CROSSINGS OCCURRING AT

THE SOUTHWEST BORDER.

IN MAY, THERE WERE ABOUT 144...

MORE THAN 144,000 ENFORCEMENT

ACTIONS AT THE SOUTHWEST BORDER.

NOW LOOK AT WHERE WE ARE.

THOSE APPREHENSIONS HAVE

DECLINED BY MORE THAN 60%.

THINGS HAVE RELATIVELY CALMED

DOWN AT THE BORDER.

BUT, AT THE SAME TIME, THERE WAS

FRICTION BETWEEN HIM AND THE

PRESIDENT AND WHITE HOUSE

ADVISER STEPHEN MILLER, KNOWN AS

THE ARCHITECT OF THE PRESIDENT'S

IMMIGRATION AGENDA.

IN THE END, KEVIN McALEENAN,

WHILE HE DID BRING BORDER

CROSSINGS DOWN, HE DID HAVE-- HE

DID TAKE ISSUE WITH SOME OF THE

INITIATIVES THAT OTHERS AROUND

HIM WANTED TO PUSH.

>> Thompson: CAN YOU TALK A

LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT?

I MEAN, WHAT ARE SOME OF THOSE

INITIATIVES THAT HE WAS A LITTLE

BIT MORE RESISTANT TO DURING HIS

TIME?

>> WELL, YOU MAY REMEMBER THAT

EARLIER THIS YEAR THERE WAS A

PUSH BY-- PARTICULARLY THE WHITE

HOUSE, AS WELL AS MARK MORGAN,

WHO WAS LEADING ICE AT THE TIME,

IS NOW LEADING CUSTOMS AND

BORDER PROTECTION-- TO LAUNCH A

NATIONWIDE SWEEP-UP OF MIGRANT

FAMILIES WHO HAD RECENTLY

CROSSED THE BORDER, THE ICE

RAIDS THAT-- AS THEY WERE CALLED

AT THAT TIME.

BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, KEVIN

McALEENAN DIDN'T WANT THAT TO

HAPPEN.

THE IDEA THAT THE PRESIDENT

WOULD CUT STATE DEPARTMENT AID

TO CENTRAL AMERICAN COUNTRIES,

THIS WAS SOMEBODY-- KEVIN

McALEENAN-- WHO BELIEVED IN

ADDRESSING THE ROOT CAUSES OF

THE REASONS OF WHICH PEOPLE

LEAVE CENTRAL AMERICAN

COUNTRIES.

HE BELIEVED IN STATE DEPARTMENT

AID AND WAS DISAPPOINTED WHEN

THAT WAS CUT.

AT THE SAME TIME, KEVIN

McALEENAN DID OVERSEE THE

DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

WHEN SOME OF THE MORE AGGRESSIVE

INITIATIVES WERE IMPLEMENTED AND

EXPANDED.

>> Thompson: HE WAS AN ACTING

SECRETARY.

HE WAS NEVER NOMINATED FOR FULL

CONFIRMATION.

I MEAN, WHAT'S THE IMPACT ON THE

DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

TO BE WITHOUT A PERMANENT HEAD

FOR SO LONG?

>> NOT JUST HIM, EITHER.

YOU HAVE TO LOOK.

SO, THE HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT

OF HOMELAND SECURITY: HIM,

ACTING POSITION.

HEAD OF U.S.C.I.S.: KEN

CUCCINELLI, ACTING POSITION.

MARK MORGAN: THE HEAD OF CUSTOMS

AND BORDER PROTECTION, ACTING

POSITION.

HEAD OF ICE RIGHT NOW: MATT

ALBERT, ACTING POSITION.

WHAT THAT HAS DONE TO THE AGENCY

IF YOU TALK TO CAREER

OFFICIALS IN THE AGENCY, IT HAS

CREATED A SENSE WHERE THERE IS

AN INSTABILITY OF LEADERSHIP

RIGHT NOW.

AND, REMEMBER, WE'RE ALSO

TALKING ABOUT D.H.S.

AND D.H.S. WAS CREATED IN THE

WAKE OF THE SEPTEMBER 11

ATTACKS, AND IT WAS NOT CREATED

TO BE SOLELY A IMMIGRATION

ENFORCEMENT AGENCY, WHICH MANY

WOULD SAY IS WHAT IT HAS BECOME

UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

AND IT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MANY

THINGS OUTSIDE OF THAT, WHETHER

IT BE CYBER-SECURITY, DISASTER

RELIEF, AS WELL AS SECURING THE

COUNTRY AND INFORMATION SHARING

IN REGARDS TO TERRORISM.

>> Thompson: ANY IDEAS ABOUT WHO

MIGHT BE TAPPED NEXT FOR THE

HOMELAND SECURITY JOB?

>> THERE'S A LOT OF NAMES THAT

HAVE BEEN FLOATED.

I MEAN, IT'S WELL KNOWN THAT

INDIVIDUALS LIKE KEN CUCCINELLI

AND MARK MORGAN DISPLAY THE

RHETORIC THAT PLEASES THE

PRESIDENT.

LET'S REMEMBER HOW THEY GOT THE

JOB.

THEY WENT ON FOX NEWS AND

ADVOCATED FOR THE PRESIDENT'S

POLICIES.

I MEAN, PREVIOUSLY, A VACANCY

ACT THAT WE THOUGHT WOULD BE

STRICTLY FOLLOWED.

HOWEVER, WE'VE BEEN TOLD THAT

THERE WERE RULES CHANGED BY THE

WHITE HOUSE WITH THE COOPERATION

OF SENIOR HOMELAND SECURITY

OFFICIALS TO MAKE IT SO THAT IT

WOULD NOT NEED TO GO TO THE NEXT

PERSON IN LINE.

THAT WOULD BE, RIGHT NOW, DAVID

PEKOSKE, WHO IS THE DEPUTY

SECRETARY, WHO IS IN AN ACTING

POSITION.

THE PRESIDENT IS GOING TO CHOOSE

WHO HE IS GOING TO CHOOSE.

I CAN TELL YOU, THOUGH, WHOEVER

HE DOES CHOOSE, I THINK IT WILL

BE A WHILE BEFORE THAT PERSON IS

NOMINATED, IF THEY'RE NOMINATED

AT ALL.

>> Thompson: ZOLAN

KANNO-YOUNGS WITH THE "NEW YORK

TIMES," THANK YOU SO MUCH

FOR BEING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU.