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JUDY WOODRUFF: Good evening.

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I'm Judy Woodruff.

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On the "NewsHour" 
tonight: President Trump 
is set to deliver his 
first State of the Union

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address before a 
nation deeply divided.

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Then: The Trump administration 
decides not to implement new 
sanctions against Russia,

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but releases a list of rich 
influential Russian businessmen, 
sparking anger from the Kremlin.

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And dreamers in school -- how 
educators are addressing the 
unique challenges of their

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immigrant students who came 
to the U.S. as children.

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YEMINA ARELLANES, Teacher: We're 
still trying to rebuild that 
trust and let them know that

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it's OK to come to us, that 
we're not going to work against 
them and that we're not going

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to turn them in.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: All that and more 
on tonight's "PBS NewsHour."

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(BREAK)

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JUDY WOODRUFF: President 
Trump speaks to Congress 
and the nation tonight 
on his view of the

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state of the union.

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White House officials say 
that he will tout economic 
progress and call for bipartisan

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agreement on immigration.

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House Majority Leader Kevin 
McCarthy says Republicans 
hope for a strong message.

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REP.

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KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA), House 
Majority Leader: The number one 
question I want the president

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to ask tonight to the American 
people: Are you better off 
today than you were two years

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ago?

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Because I think that answer 
could be very strong and 
probably put partisanship aside

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and have other people start 
working with us, so we can solve 
the other problems that are

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before us.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Democrats, 
in turn, say the country 
is more divided than ever.

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And Senate Minority Leader 
Chuck Schumer says credit for 
economic progress should go to

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the last president.

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SEN.

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CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), Minority 
Leader: The president thinks 
our economic recovery is

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all thanks to him, when 
reality is that he owes a 
lot of it to Barack Obama.

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Two words I don't think we 
will hear tonight on the 
economy: Thanks, Obama.

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Second, we expect the president 
to talk about bipartisanship, 
but throughout his time in

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office, he's failed 
to walk the walk.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: 
Massachusetts Congressman 
Joe Kennedy, grandson of 
the late Senator Robert

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F. Kennedy, will deliver the 
official Democratic response.

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And I'm joined now by 
White House correspondent 
Yamiche Alcindor and our 
Capitol Hill correspondent,

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Lisa Desjardins, for a 
look ahead to tonight's 
speech from both ends 
of Pennsylvania Avenue.

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Hello to both of you.

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Yamiche, you are outdoors.

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I'm going to go to you first.

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What are you hearing about what 
the president is going to say?

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YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Well, a White 
House official tells me that 
the speech is going to be about

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50 minutes and that several 
people worked on the speech, 
including H.R. McMaster, the

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national security adviser, 
Gary Cohn, the chief economic 
adviser, Stephen Miller, as

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well as Vice 
President Mike Pence.

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The theme is supposed 
to be building a safe, 
strong, and proud America.

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He's supposed to be talking 
about several topics, including 
immigration, national security,

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jobs, infrastructure and trade.

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Some of the guests that the 
White House is bringing is 
really going to bring home that

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point.

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They're talking -- 
they're bringing people 
that have benefited 
from the Republican tax

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plan.

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They're also going to be 
bringing somebody who adopted a 
child that was affected by the

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opioid crisis.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Yamiche, 
you were telling us that it's 
notable what the president is

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not expected to talk about.

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YAMICHE ALCINDOR: The president 
is not expected to talk about 
some of the main issues that

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Americans are speaking about, 
and this is the MeToo movement 
and sexual harassment all

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across this country.

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He's also not going to 
be talking about the 
Russia investigation 
and Robert Mueller.

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Of course, there have been so 
many reports out there that 
he might be trying to fire

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the special investigator.

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Then he's also not supposed 
to be talking about the 
spike in hate crimes.

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There is a lot of division in 
the country with race relations 
and people talking about

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that all the time.

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But the president said in 
a luncheon that me and you 
attended this afternoon that he

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wants to unify the country.

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So, it is going to be 
interesting to see whether 
or not he can do that.

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He said that usually 
major events, catastrophic 
events, essentially, 
are what bring Americans

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together.

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But he wants to do that without 
having Americans suffer.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: That's right.

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And he also commented at that 
lunch on what he'd learned as 
president about having -- it's

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important to have heart, as 
well as being concerned about 
money, which was an interesting

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comment.

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Lisa, to you now.

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This State of the Union address 
comes at a time of, I guess 
you would have to say some

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high-stakes decisions that are 
about to be made in Congress.

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Are Republicans looking to 
the president to help get some 
legislation they want passed

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done?

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LISA DESJARDINS: Absolutely.

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And I think that touches 
on the sort of strange 
dynamic I feel tonight.

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I have covered many State of the 
Union addresses, but this one, 
the drama is not the speech.

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The drama are the deadlines 
that Congress faces, to pass 
an immigration bill in the

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Senate by next week, also to 
have a budget deal, much less 
a president who seems to be

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at war to some degree with the 
FBI over a Russia investigation.

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Those things are day-to-day 
here at the Capitol.

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This is something that 
Republicans think will not 
be affected by the speech.

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What they want from 
this president is for 
him to presidential, to 
be moderate, the things

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the White House indicates it's 
doing, but to some degree, Judy, 
expectations for Republicans

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are low to middle range.

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They're setting those 
expectations that way so that 
the president can overcome them.

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But the speech also presents a 
problem for Republicans, Judy.

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They have a real 
divide on immigration.

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Today, Representative Paul Gosar 
of Arizona asked the Capitol 
Police to ask for identification

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of every guest tonight, and if 
they find someone who was an 
undocumented immigrant here, as

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there will be many guests 
tonight, he has asked Capitol 
Police to remove them and arrest

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them.

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That's different from 
other Republicans, 
including Republican Carlos 
Curbelo, who has invited

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an undocumented dreamer, someone 
who has status, but it shows 
the divide here for Republicans

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in this speech and 
time right now.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, it will be 
interesting to see what happens.

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And, Lisa, what 
about the Democrats?

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We know many of them are not 
happy with this president.

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Some of them, I guess, are 
not planning to attend.

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Some of them are going 
to wear various colors to 
show their displeasure.

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What are they looking for?

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LISA DESJARDINS: Well, take 
what Yamiche towed you about 
the things the president is not

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talking about, the MeToo 
movement, for example, 
those are things -- and 
the Russia investigation,

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the Russia sanctions 
-- those are the things 
that the Democrats are 
talking about today.

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They are the things they 
are challenging him on.

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You will see a lot of Democrats, 
especially women, Nancy 
Pelosi, wearing black tonight

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to support the MeToo movement.

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You will see red buttons.

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Those are for Recy Taylor, 
the woman that Oprah 
mentioned at the Golden 
Globes was gang-raped,

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African-American 
woman in the 1940s.

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Sort of this idea of bringing 
up minority and women's 
issues is something Democrats

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you're going to see 
from Democrats tonight.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, both of 
you are going to be with us 
for the rest of the night.

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And we look forward to it.

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Thank you, Yamiche and Lisa.

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And in the day's other news: A 
major health care announcement 
triggered a significant

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sell-off on Wall Street.

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Health insurers, drug makers 
and distributors were all hit 
hard after Amazon, Berkshire

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Hathaway and J.P. Morgan Chase 
announced a new venture aimed 
at providing quality health

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care at a reasonable cost.

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The Dow Jones industrial average 
plunged 362 points, nearly 1.5 
point, to close below 26077.

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The Nasdaq fell 64 points, 
and the S&P 500 lost 31.

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House Speaker Paul 
Ryan is defending an 
effort by congressional 
Republicans to make public

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a classified memo 
on the Russia probe.

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The House Intelligence Committee 
voted last night to take 
that step, over the Justice

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Department's objections.

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Some Republicans say the memo 
shows improper surveillance 
by justice and the FBI and an

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effort to conspire 
against President Trump.

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REP.

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PAUL RYAN (R-WI), Speaker 
of the House: There may 
have been malfeasance 
at the FBI by certain

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individuals.

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So it is our job in conducting 
transparent oversight of the 
executive branch to get to

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bottom of that.

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Sunshine is the 
best disinfectant.

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And so what we want is all 
this information to come out, 
so that transparency can reign

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supreme and 
accountability can occur.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: President Trump 
has the final word on releasing 
the memo, and he's said

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he favors doing so.

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But the White House said today 
that it will run a legal and 
national security review before

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a final decision.

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The Trump administration will 
not implement new economic 
sanctions against Russia, for

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now, for interfering in the 
2016 presidential election.

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The State Department said 
late Monday that existing 
measures are already working.

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But the Treasury Department 
published a list of 
Russian officials and 
wealthy businessmen

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who could be targeted.

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Today, in Moscow, President 
Vladimir Putin called 
the list a hostile step.

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VLADIMIR PUTIN, Russian 
President (through 
translator): What's the 
sense of these actions?

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I don't understand.

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But it is, of course, 
an unfriendly act.

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It complicates the already 
difficult situation 
in Russian-American 
relations, and of course,

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harms the international 
relations as a whole.

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It is complete stupidity to 
reduce our relations to zero.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: We will take a 
closer look at all of this a 
little later in the program.

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The United Nations Children's 
Fund is warning that stepped-up 
sanctions on North Korea could

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mean nearly 60,000 
children will starve.

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UNICEF says that the penalties 
are making it harder to 
ship food, fuel and medicine

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to the North.

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The sanctions target the North's 
nuclear and missile programs.

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The Taliban today condemned 
President Trump's rejection 
of truce talks in Afghanistan.

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Mr. Trump had cited a 
spate of deadly attacks.

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In a statement today, 
the Taliban said the U.S. 
strategy is simply more war.

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In Yemen, there's new trouble 
for a coalition led by Saudi 
Arabia against Shiite rebels

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linked to Iran.

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Fighters who'd been part of 
the coalition seized the port 
city of Aden today, after

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two days of fighting.

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They surrounded the 
presidential palace and 
accused the Saudi-backed 
government of corruption.

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They also want a separate 
state in Southern Yemen.

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Tens of thousands of 
Kenyans turned out today 
for the mock-inauguration 
of opposition leader

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Raila Odinga as 
alternative president.

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President Uhuru Kenyatta 
won October's election after 
the opposition boycotted.

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Today, Odinga supporters swarmed 
a Nairobi park as he took his 
oath and declared defiance

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of the government.

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RAILA ODINGA, Opposition Leader 
(through translator): Today is a 
historical day in our country of

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Kenya.

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For the first time, Kenyans have 
taken the decision to remove 
themselves from a dictatorship

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government that came through 
the stealing of votes.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Kenya's 
government cut live 
transmission of three 
TV channels airing the

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event, and branded it treason.

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Police also fired tear gas at 
demonstrators who were nearby.

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There's new fallout from 
Larry Nassar's sexual abuse 
of young women athletes.

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Texas will now investigate the 
Karolyi Ranch training center, 
where some gymnasts say the

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former sports doctor 
molested them.

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Michigan State University is 
expected to name former Governor 
John Engler as interim president

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amid allegations that the school 
ignored Nassar's abuse there.

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And Congress is set to mandate 
that athletic groups quickly 
report claims of abuse to the

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police.

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Volkswagen has suspended 
a top executive today 
after disclosures of 
diesel fume experiments

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using monkeys.

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Initial reports had said that 
humans were also used, but 
the executive now says that

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he rejected that idea.

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Instead, monkeys breathed 
in fumes for four hours 
to test emission controls.

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This follows the 2015 
scandal over V.W.'s 
cheating on emissions tests.

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And get set for a three-in-one 
lunar show early tomorrow.

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First, a blue moon, the second 
full moon in the same month.

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At the same time, it will be a 
supermoon closer than usual, and 
appearing bigger and brighter.

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And, finally, there will be 
a total lunar eclipse, but 
in only part of the country.

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It all happens before dawn 
Wednesday, mostly over 
the Western U.S. and Asia.

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Still to come on the "NewsHour": 
our preview of the State of the 
Union continues with Georgia

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Republican Senator David 
Perdue; a historical 
look at presidential 
speeches; plus, why the

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U.S. government is publicly 
naming businesspeople with close 
ties to Vladimir Putin; and much

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more.

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As we learn more about President 
Trump's speech, and his plan 
to strike a bipartisan tone,

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I spoke with one of his 
closest allies in congress, 
Republican Senator David Perdue

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of Georgia.

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And I started by asking, 
what will be the president's 
main message tonight?

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SEN.

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DAVID PERDUE (R), Georgia: Judy, 
I think we're going to see an 
upbeat and optimistic president

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tonight, like we saw in Davos 
last week, where he sent the 
world a message that America was

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open for business and 
that America first did not 
necessarily mean America alone.

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So, I think he's going to lay 
out his agenda from last year 
and the results that we are

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seeing, but also very carefully 
lay out and articulate 
his priorities for 2018.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: We know that 
he's going to talk about 
immigration, among other things.

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You have said that the 
president's proposal 
hits, I think you used 
the words, a sweet

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spot, that it's a middle ground.

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But, as you know, the critics 
on the left say that it's too 
harsh in breaking families

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apart, that it spends to 
much on a border wall.

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Then you have critics on the 
right saying that it is too 
-- that it is unacceptable

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to give undocumented 
young immigrants a 
path to citizenship.

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How do you bring these 
two sides together?

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SEN.

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DAVID PERDUE: What the president 
did, Judy, is lay out a 
framework for our conversation

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here in Congress to finally, 
once and for all, deal with 
the DACA situation, but make

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sure that we eliminate the 
causes of the situation 
in the first place.

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And that is that we have to 
deal with what created this 
chain or the family immigration

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system that we had since 1965.

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Actually, Tom Cotton and I 
put a bill in a year ago -- 
it's hard to believe it's been

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that long, but a year ago 
-- to actually move toward 
what Bill Clinton wanted and

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Barbara Jordan back in the '90s.

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And that is move us more toward 
a merit-based immigration system 
that protected the immediate

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family, and this system is more 
like what Canada and Australia 
have been doing for decades.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: So you 
think the two sides are 
going to come together?

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Because, right now, they seem 
pretty implacably opposed.

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SEN.

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DAVID PERDUE: I think any 
time you have two parties like 
this opposing it the way that

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have been on the president's 
framework, it tells me that the 
president did hit that sweet

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spot that I was talking about.

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And we're going to find out, on 
both sides, Judy, who is serious 
about solving this problem

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once and for all.

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Eighty percent of America wants 
a secure border and a wall in 
places where it's necessary.

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Two-thirds of America wants 
to solve the DACA problem, but 
only if you end chain migration

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and diversity lottery 
and protect the immediate 
worker's family, at 
the same time providing

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for border security.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Senator, we're 
told the president is also 
going to talk about the need 
for infrastructure-building.

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He's going to call for a mix of 
government and private capital 
to come together to repair

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roads and bridges and so forth.

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But we know that Senate 
Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer, 
other Democrats are saying

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to rely on private developers 
is going to leave out large 
chunks of the country, that

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it's going to lead to tolls 
and taxes in different 
local jurisdictions.

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It's going to lead to private 
developers having too much 
say over infrastructure.

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How do you respond?

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SEN.

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DAVID PERDUE: The truth of 
the matter is, Judy, with our 
debt, we have lost that option,

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frankly.

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The only way Chuck Schumer is 
going to get that financing 
done that way is more taxes.

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And we know what that 
does to the economy.

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We have got examples right 
now, like Power Africa, where 
our U.S. Department of State

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invested $8 billion and 
attracted $48 billion, 
and is going to bring 
power to Africa over

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the next decade in a 
public-private partnership.

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We have the same opportunities 
in the United States.

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What the president is going 
to do tonight, I believe, is 
lay out his priorities, which

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will be focused on investments 
that will yield returns 
by growing the economy.

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And in so doing, I think we 
will find a way to pay for it.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Senator, 
different subject, 
and that is Russia.

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We know that last night 
the State Department 
announced that it is not 
going to impose sanctions

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on Russia that 
Congress overwhelmingly 
passed in mid-2017.

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They say the legislation itself 
is enough of a deterrent.

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What's your view of that?

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SEN.

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DAVID PERDUE: Well, I think 
we have got to be very serious 
with not only Russia, but

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North Korea, Iran, and 
other nefarious actors 
around the world today.

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The world is more dangerous 
than any time in my lifetime 
anyway, and at the same time,

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we have got to 
rebuild our military.

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We're going to 
hear that tonight.

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Specifically, with regard to 
Russia, they need to know we're 
serious about messing with

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our election process.

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This is a democracy.

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And that won't be tolerated.

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And Republicans and Democrats 
are aligned on that.

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I'm anxious to get these 
Intelligence Committees' 
reports done, though.

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I think we need to get past 
this, get this, an independent 
investigation, over and done

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with.

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We have been doing 
this almost a year now.

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So, it's time to get these 
results in and tell the 
American people where we are and

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build a defense against 
that next activity.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: So, are you all 
right with their not imposing 
the sanctions now on Russia?

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SEN.

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DAVID PERDUE: I voted 
for these sanctions.

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I think they should be employed.

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But I think it's part 
of a bigger picture.

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I'm willing to give 
the secretary of state 
and the president some 
latitude on this, Judy,

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only because it's part of a 
bigger equation with North Korea 
and China particularly right

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now.

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But also we're looking at the 
Iran nuclear deal to see how to 
hold that coalition together.

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There's no question that we need 
more serious sanctions against 
Iran, and also North Korea,

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and I believe against 
Russia, if they don't 
help us with North Korea.

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So the calculus here is, I 
believe, is Russia going to 
help us with North Korea?

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Are they going to respond to 
this act by the president?

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And we will see 
very, very quickly.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Finally, Senator, 
I want to ask you about your 
constituents in Georgia.

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The Gallup Organization 
came out with a poll.

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They have looked at all 
50 states at the support 
for the president over 
the past year on average.

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And in the state of Georgia, 
which you represent, 
they said, on average, 
41 percent of the people

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approve of the 
president's performance, 
53 percent disapprove.

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How do you explain that?

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SEN.

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DAVID PERDUE: You know, that 
same poll had me losing by 
almost nine points, Judy.

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I think I won by 
over eight points.

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I don't put a lot of credit in 
that, because this president 
doesn't fit the mold of the

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00:18:48,166 --> 00:18:50,933
traditional Washington 
established president.

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He's an outsider.

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He's a business guy.

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I'm not worried about 
popularity polls.

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I'm worried about 
results, like he is.

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And right now his agenda 
is providing results.

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The work that we did on 
regulation last year, 
the work we did on energy 
and taxes is producing

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results; 2.5 million new 
jobs were created last year.

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That is not lost on people in 
my state and across the country.

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00:19:09,700 --> 00:19:13,366
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, we're 
going to leave it there, and 
we are certainly all going to

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be watching the president.

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00:19:14,833 --> 00:19:17,900
Senator David Perdue 
of Georgia, thank you.

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SEN.

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DAVID PERDUE: Thanks, Judy.

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00:19:26,333 --> 00:19:30,166
JUDY WOODRUFF: Ahead of the 
president's address to Congress 
and the nation tonight, we spoke

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to people around the 
country about how they see 
the State of the Union.

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To walk us through how these 
Americans are grading President 
Trump and what their responses

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00:19:42,266 --> 00:19:47,133
can tell us about this fall's 
congressional elections, I'm 
joined by Amy Walter of The

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00:19:47,133 --> 00:19:50,333
Cook Political Report, no 
stranger to this program.

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00:19:50,333 --> 00:19:55,166
So, Amy, we're going to 
start with a video from a 
man named Austin Erdman.

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00:19:55,166 --> 00:19:58,133
He's a farmer from 
Stockton, California.

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00:19:58,133 --> 00:20:02,600
He told us the president has 
done a good job in his first 
year, particularly on the issue

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00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,666
of immigration.

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00:20:04,666 --> 00:20:07,900
AUSTIN ERDMAN, California: I 
believe it is unfair to grade 
the president at this time,

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00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:12,900
because his proposed policies 
have not yet been fully 
formed and implemented.

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00:20:14,900 --> 00:20:18,133
I also believe that 
the president is on the 
right track in pursuing 
immigration policies

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00:20:19,933 --> 00:20:23,833
that will defend and 
protect all American 
citizens and our democracy.

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00:20:23,833 --> 00:20:28,833
I also believe that laws, 
rules and regulations 
need to be implemented 
to secure our borders

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and to protect our citizens.

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00:20:33,033 --> 00:20:38,033
And we need to implement 
strategic screening processes to 
ensure that, best as possible,

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00:20:39,633 --> 00:20:42,966
that our law-abiding, 
productive people enter 
our country legally.

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00:20:42,966 --> 00:20:47,733
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Amy, we know 
the president is expected the 
talk about immigration tonight.

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We know there is a big divide 
here in Washington about it.

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00:20:50,433 --> 00:20:52,533
What are people out 
in the country saying?

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00:20:52,533 --> 00:20:54,533
AMY WALTER, The Cook Political 
Report: Well, Judy, the team 
here at PBS talked to about

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00:20:54,533 --> 00:20:56,100
a dozen voters.

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And the issue of immigration 
came up more than any other.

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Not surprising, Americans are 
as polarized on this issue as 
we see members of Congress.

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What we saw there was someone 
who supported the president 
and also supported his position

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on immigration.

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00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:14,200
We heard as well from 
a woman in Southern 
California named Sabrina.

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She too liked the idea of more 
border security, but, like we 
saw here with Austin, she does

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00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,000
want to see more than 
just border security.

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00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,766
She said she likes that 
the president's protecting 
illegal immigrants from 
taking resources away

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from American citizens.

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So it goes beyond just having 
money for the wall that the 
president talked so much about

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in 2016.

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But when you heard from the 
people who don't approve of 
the job the president is doing,

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particularly voters of color, 
they see what the president is 
doing, they cite immigration

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as one of the main reasons 
they say that they disapprove 
of the job that he's doing.

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Talked to a woman named 
Blanche (ph) from Houston.

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She says that Trump is 
being unfair to immigrants.

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Another woman, Charlita (ph) 
from Cleveland, said it's not 
right what the president is

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00:21:56,866 --> 00:22:00,333
doing to kick people out 
of the country that have 
been here for years.

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So we're seeing the reason I 
think Congress is as polarized 
as it is, is in part because

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voters are, too.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Because the 
country is polarized, too.

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AMY WALTER: Right.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: So, now, one of 
the other themes you heard about 
in talking to voters was this

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concern about the president's 
temperament and some of the 
controversial comments that

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00:22:18,766 --> 00:22:20,566
he's been making on Twitter.

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00:22:20,566 --> 00:22:23,466
So, we're going to hear now 
from a woman in Cincinnati.

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Her name is Sarah Warner.

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00:22:25,566 --> 00:22:30,033
She was a reluctant supporter 
of Hillary Clinton, but now she 
says she disapproves of the job

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00:22:30,033 --> 00:22:34,366
President Trump has done in 
office, but her concerns are 
bigger than just the president.

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SARAH WARNER, Ohio: We are 
so divided right now because 
we can't get over him.

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He's not the problem.

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00:22:44,700 --> 00:22:46,566
He's a symptom of the problem.

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00:22:46,566 --> 00:22:49,366
The problem is that 
our system is broken.

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People on either side of 
the argument are angry 
because they want change.

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00:22:55,133 --> 00:22:56,000
We're not seeing that.

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We're looking for it.

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00:22:57,366 --> 00:22:58,800
But we're not seeing it.

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No one really likes him.

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Like, no one, come on.

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Think about it.

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00:23:03,366 --> 00:23:04,833
Do you really want that 
representing your country?

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00:23:04,833 --> 00:23:06,033
No.

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00:23:06,033 --> 00:23:09,900
But it's our complacency 
that's the problem.

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00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:13,166
So, what are you 
going to do about it?

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00:23:13,166 --> 00:23:16,833
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Amy, 
she's clearly not a fan 
of the president, but 
what are you hearing

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00:23:16,833 --> 00:23:20,200
about the president's 
temperament from people 
who like President Trump?

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00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,533
AMY WALTER: Well, across the 
board -- and, Judy, we have been 
talking about this consistently

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00:23:24,533 --> 00:23:28,633
from the beginning of his 
presidency, that even people who 
say they like him, they voted

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00:23:28,633 --> 00:23:33,633
for him, boy, I wish he would 
get off Twitter, boy, I wish 
he would sort of dial it back

401
00:23:35,100 --> 00:23:38,300
on his rhetoric 
and his behavior.

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00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:43,300
But for people who dislike 
him, it's much more -- it's as 
much about him than just his

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00:23:45,466 --> 00:23:50,166
behavior, but that they believe 
that it's dangerous, that 
what he's doing is more than

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00:23:50,166 --> 00:23:53,833
just having a personality issue 
that they have a problem with.

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00:23:53,833 --> 00:23:56,233
There's a woman, Janet 
from Davenport, Iowa.

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00:23:56,233 --> 00:24:00,433
She says she thinks he 
threatens freedom of speech 
with his attacks on the media.

407
00:24:00,433 --> 00:24:03,900
She calls him dishonest, 
an embarrassment.

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00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:05,466
But even those who 
are happy with him...

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.

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00:24:07,533 --> 00:24:10,600
AMY WALTER: We saw -- we had 
one interview with a man from 
Nevada who said, I love what

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00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,566
he's doing for the courts.

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00:24:12,566 --> 00:24:16,233
I love that he's putting 
conservative jurists on there, 
but he keeps getting in his own

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00:24:16,233 --> 00:24:18,300
way.

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00:24:18,300 --> 00:24:19,833
And he said, if he didn't have 
that, if he didn't have these 
self-inflicted wounds, he

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00:24:19,833 --> 00:24:21,633
would be as perfect 
as he can be.

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00:24:21,633 --> 00:24:23,666
JUDY WOODRUFF: Wow.

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00:24:23,666 --> 00:24:27,500
So -- and we know the president 
tells everybody who will listen 
that if he can -- that as

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00:24:27,500 --> 00:24:31,166
long as he can he's going to 
stick with social media, because 
that's his way of fighting

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00:24:31,166 --> 00:24:34,566
back against the press 
that he thinks is 
overwhelmingly against him.

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00:24:34,566 --> 00:24:38,933
So, now, one thing, Amy, we 
have talked about this past 
year is the president thinks the

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00:24:38,933 --> 00:24:43,866
economy is doing better and 
better and that he deserves 
a lot of the credit for that,

422
00:24:43,866 --> 00:24:47,966
low unemployment, tax cuts, 
just the overall strong economy.

423
00:24:47,966 --> 00:24:49,966
How do people see that?

424
00:24:49,966 --> 00:24:53,533
AMY WALTER: You know, it's 
interesting, Judy, because what 
we saw when talking to voters

425
00:24:53,533 --> 00:24:58,333
that, for those who 
supported the president, 
they cited the economy as 
a reason for supporting

426
00:24:58,333 --> 00:25:00,000
him.

427
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,366
There's a truck driver 
that we talked to, Aaron 
(ph) from Saint Louis.

428
00:25:02,366 --> 00:25:04,900
He said, my 401(k) is 
going through the roof, 
and you know what?

429
00:25:04,900 --> 00:25:09,166
I think these tax cuts are 
going to help me because my 
company that runs this trucking

430
00:25:09,166 --> 00:25:13,366
organization, they are probably 
not going the lay anybody 
off because they're going

431
00:25:13,366 --> 00:25:15,466
to have more money.

432
00:25:15,466 --> 00:25:18,033
When you talk to folks 
who disapprove of the 
president, they don't 
talk about the economy.

433
00:25:18,033 --> 00:25:22,533
What they talk about is the 
tax cuts that they believe 
are going to help corporations

434
00:25:22,533 --> 00:25:24,633
and hurt regular people.

435
00:25:24,633 --> 00:25:27,133
One woman from Iowa said, I 
think they're just helping 
corporate farmers, not small

436
00:25:27,133 --> 00:25:29,200
farmers.

437
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,500
But, Judy, I think the person 
that really sums up really 
what 2018 is going to be, who

438
00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:36,266
sums up the tension 
really of 2018, is a man 
named Todd from Houston.

439
00:25:36,266 --> 00:25:41,033
He thinks the economy is doing 
well, but he really dislikes 
the president's behavior and

440
00:25:41,033 --> 00:25:45,600
what it has done for 
the country, especially 
the divisiveness it's 
sown in the country.

441
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,533
And we are going to watch 
throughout 2018 how voters 
grapple with that: I feel better

442
00:25:49,533 --> 00:25:50,766
about the economy.

443
00:25:50,766 --> 00:25:52,300
I don't feel good 
about the president.

444
00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:54,400
Which one of those things 
is going to win out?

445
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,833
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, 
last question: Was 
there anything that you 
expected people to bring

446
00:25:58,833 --> 00:26:01,833
up that they didn't talk about?

447
00:26:01,833 --> 00:26:04,533
AMY WALTER: There wasn't 
one word about Russia.

448
00:26:04,533 --> 00:26:07,466
There wasn't one word 
about investigations.

449
00:26:07,466 --> 00:26:09,833
There wasn't anything 
about impeachment.

450
00:26:09,833 --> 00:26:14,833
It was really focused on the 
president's behavior almost 
more than anything else.

451
00:26:15,966 --> 00:26:16,500
And we have been talking 
about this forever.

452
00:26:16,500 --> 00:26:17,300
Right?

453
00:26:17,300 --> 00:26:19,300
JUDY WOODRUFF: Sure.

454
00:26:19,300 --> 00:26:20,233
AMY WALTER: It's his 
personality more than his 
policy that defines him.

455
00:26:20,233 --> 00:26:22,033
But the economy, we expected.

456
00:26:22,033 --> 00:26:24,166
Immigration,we expected.

457
00:26:24,166 --> 00:26:28,300
But given the amount of 
time that is given to 
the Russia investigation 
and energy, especially

458
00:26:30,333 --> 00:26:34,733
in this town, no one -- to see 
that nobody even in passing 
brought it up was interesting.

459
00:26:35,933 --> 00:26:37,966
JUDY WOODRUFF: 
And you are right.

460
00:26:37,966 --> 00:26:40,033
It's getting an enormous 
amount of attention in 
the news media right now.

461
00:26:40,033 --> 00:26:43,033
So, that is a particularly 
interesting thing, that 
they didn't bring it up.

462
00:26:43,033 --> 00:26:45,066
Amy Walter, The Cook 
Political Report, thank you.

463
00:26:45,066 --> 00:26:46,966
And you're going to be with 
us for the rest of tonight...

464
00:26:46,966 --> 00:26:48,433
AMY WALTER: All night.

465
00:26:48,433 --> 00:26:52,566
JUDY WOODRUFF: ... to talk 
about the State of the Union.

466
00:26:52,566 --> 00:26:57,566
Thank you.

467
00:27:00,866 --> 00:27:05,333
And now we step back for a 
historical perspective on 
addresses to the nation.

468
00:27:05,333 --> 00:27:09,800
The State of the Union is an 
uninterrupted opportunity for 
President Trump to outline

469
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,733
his legislative agenda 
and his priorities.

470
00:27:12,733 --> 00:27:17,733
To help us understand the 
potential significance 
of tonight, I am joined 
by presidential historian

471
00:27:18,466 --> 00:27:19,900
Michael Beschloss.

472
00:27:19,900 --> 00:27:21,133
Michael Beschloss, welcome 
back to the program.

473
00:27:21,133 --> 00:27:22,500
It's good to see you.

474
00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:24,000
MICHAEL BESCHLOSS, Presidential 
Historian: Thank you.

475
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,100
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, a lot of 
eyes on the president tonight.

476
00:27:26,100 --> 00:27:29,033
What sort of opportunity does 
the State of the Union present?

477
00:27:29,033 --> 00:27:34,033
MICHAEL BESCHLOSS: Well, it is 
most suited if you have got a 
president who has got something

478
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,133
new, wants to tell the 
country, I want to move 
in a different direction.

479
00:27:38,133 --> 00:27:42,566
For instance, 1941, in January, 
Franklin Roosevelt talked about 
the four freedoms that he wanted

480
00:27:44,066 --> 00:27:46,133
to see around the world.

481
00:27:46,133 --> 00:27:50,666
What that told Americans was, 
this is a president who really 
is a lot more likely to want to

482
00:27:52,066 --> 00:27:55,600
get involved in World War II 
against Hitler than we expected.

483
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,766
Lyndon Johnson in '64 and '65 
said, I want a war on poverty.

484
00:27:59,766 --> 00:28:03,400
I want to go for civil 
rights and voting rights.

485
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:08,400
George W. Bush in 2002 talked 
about the axis of evil, what 
we should do to worry about

486
00:28:10,466 --> 00:28:12,033
North Korea, Iran, Iraq.

487
00:28:12,033 --> 00:28:16,266
Look how much that has affected 
world history ever since then.

488
00:28:16,266 --> 00:28:19,666
That's the best opportunity for 
a president in this situation.

489
00:28:19,666 --> 00:28:24,666
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Michael, do 
the words a president speaks 
at a State of the Union or

490
00:28:26,700 --> 00:28:30,333
at other important events, do 
they actually have the ability 
to move legislation, to get

491
00:28:31,666 --> 00:28:35,333
people behind him for 
whatever he wants to get done?

492
00:28:35,333 --> 00:28:38,000
MICHAEL BESCHLOSS: If 
they give a great speech.

493
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:43,000
For instance, Lyndon Johnson 
in 1964, he really felt in 
his heart about poverty.

494
00:28:44,966 --> 00:28:48,633
He helped to tell Americans, 
this is a disgrace that, in this 
prosperous country, there are

495
00:28:48,633 --> 00:28:51,300
so many people 
who are suffering.

496
00:28:51,300 --> 00:28:54,933
That got Americans to 
lean on their members 
of Congress to move.

497
00:28:54,933 --> 00:28:59,166
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, you also 
have -- it's part of what 
we're all talking about tonight

498
00:28:59,166 --> 00:29:02,866
- - you have a nontraditional 
president in Donald Trump...

499
00:29:02,866 --> 00:29:04,933
MICHAEL BESCHLOSS: Indeed.

500
00:29:04,933 --> 00:29:07,766
JUDY WOODRUFF: ... but in a 
very traditional setting, making 
the speech, State of the Union,

501
00:29:07,766 --> 00:29:09,833
standing before the Congress.

502
00:29:09,833 --> 00:29:12,066
Is there any 
historical precedent?

503
00:29:12,066 --> 00:29:16,400
MICHAEL BESCHLOSS: Well, the 
interesting thing, there is not, 
and especially because you have

504
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:21,400
got a president who basically 
says -- is proud of the fact, 
much as it grieves me to say

505
00:29:23,366 --> 00:29:26,200
this, Judy, he says he's not 
very interested in history 
and doesn't read books.

506
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:31,200
So, this is very different from 
most presidents who study how 
other presidents have used this

507
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,833
occasion.

508
00:29:33,833 --> 00:29:37,433
And so if you think, is this 
someone who is going to write 
a speech, stick to it, and

509
00:29:39,433 --> 00:29:43,866
not get off the teleprompter, 
he probably will get off the 
teleprompter, and that could

510
00:29:43,866 --> 00:29:45,800
be the news of the night.

511
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,633
JUDY WOODRUFF: It's interesting, 
because, as we know, Michael, 
there is so much focus

512
00:29:48,633 --> 00:29:53,633
right now on the president 
-- how the president 
uses social media, what 
he says in his tweets...

513
00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:56,566
MICHAEL BESCHLOSS: Right.

514
00:29:56,566 --> 00:29:58,533
JUDY WOODRUFF: ... and in his 
-- especially - - and in his 
other off-the-cuff remarks.

515
00:29:58,533 --> 00:30:03,166
So, when you weigh a speech vs. 
the off the cuff, you really 
are looking at a different

516
00:30:05,066 --> 00:30:06,633
way of getting a message out.

517
00:30:06,633 --> 00:30:08,666
MICHAEL BESCHLOSS: That's right.

518
00:30:08,666 --> 00:30:13,100
And this is a reality TV star, 
and he knows that people are 
usually more interested in

519
00:30:14,500 --> 00:30:17,233
what seems to be spontaneous 
than what is on script.

520
00:30:17,233 --> 00:30:20,866
And also he famously doesn't 
have a lot of self-discipline.

521
00:30:20,866 --> 00:30:25,866
He gave a somewhat unifying, 
rather polished speech off the 
teleprompter to Congress last

522
00:30:27,900 --> 00:30:32,300
year, was widely praised for 
it and, as you remember, very 
quickly after that did a tweet

523
00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:37,900
about Barack Obama supposedly 
bugging Trump Tower that sort 
of stamped on his message.

524
00:30:39,900 --> 00:30:43,966
JUDY WOODRUFF: And, finally, 
Michael, I guess picking up on 
that, but this is a moment when

525
00:30:43,966 --> 00:30:48,966
there is this investigative 
cloud hanging over 
the president.

526
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,633
Is this a moment to shake that 
loose, or how do people see 
a president at a moment like

527
00:30:55,666 --> 00:30:57,366
this?

528
00:30:57,366 --> 00:31:01,333
MICHAEL BESCHLOSS: Well, 
Donald Trump has got 
two historical choices.

529
00:31:01,333 --> 00:31:06,333
In 1974, Richard Nixon 
went before Congress and 
said, time to end the 
Watergate investigation.

530
00:31:07,666 --> 00:31:10,566
He said, one year of 
Watergate is enough.

531
00:31:10,566 --> 00:31:15,566
Twenty years ago, in 1998, Bill 
Clinton, just after the Monica 
Lewinsky episode began, went

532
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,233
before Congress, gives this 
long speech, about 90 minutes.

533
00:31:21,233 --> 00:31:25,000
People kept on waiting 
to hear what he was going 
to say about the scandal.

534
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,466
He didn't say a word.

535
00:31:27,466 --> 00:31:31,900
And, as a result, 
Clinton's public approval 
rating, as measured by 
the Gallup poll, went

536
00:31:32,833 --> 00:31:35,666
up 10 points from 59 to 69.

537
00:31:35,666 --> 00:31:37,966
So we will see which course 
the president chooses.

538
00:31:37,966 --> 00:31:41,300
JUDY WOODRUFF: And we're hearing 
tonight the president doesn't 
plan to mention the Russia

539
00:31:41,300 --> 00:31:42,300
investigation.

540
00:31:42,300 --> 00:31:43,566
So, we will be watching.

541
00:31:43,566 --> 00:31:45,733
Michael Beschloss, 
thank you very much.

542
00:31:45,733 --> 00:31:50,733
MICHAEL BESCHLOSS: 
Thank you so much, Judy.

543
00:31:53,100 --> 00:31:58,100
JUDY WOODRUFF: Stay with us.

544
00:32:00,433 --> 00:32:05,133
Coming up on the "NewsHour": 
how a community in 
Ohio is responding to 
the opioid epidemic;

545
00:32:07,166 --> 00:32:09,800
teachers' efforts to 
support so-called dreamers.

546
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,800
But, first, we return to 
the Trump administration's 
policy toward Russia.

547
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,233
John Yang has more on that and 
a look ahead to the upcoming 
presidential election there.

548
00:32:22,533 --> 00:32:25,433
JOHN YANG: Judy, last summer, 
Congress overwhelmingly 
voted to sanction Russia 
for meddling in the

549
00:32:26,166 --> 00:32:28,366
2016 U.S. elections.

550
00:32:28,366 --> 00:32:32,933
Last night, the Trump 
administration said it 
is not imposing any of 
the sanctions because

551
00:32:32,933 --> 00:32:35,033
the threat of them is enough.

552
00:32:35,033 --> 00:32:39,733
The measure also directed the 
Treasury Department to compile a 
list of Russian senior political

553
00:32:39,733 --> 00:32:44,733
leaders, heads of 
state-controlled industries 
and oligarchs worth more 
than a billion dollars

554
00:32:45,866 --> 00:32:47,900
in an effort to 
name and shame them.

555
00:32:47,900 --> 00:32:52,533
Last night, the Treasury 
Department sent Congress a 
list of more than 200 names.

556
00:32:52,533 --> 00:32:57,333
It includes Russian 
Prime Minister and 
former President Dmitry 
Medvedev, Igor Sechin, the

557
00:32:57,333 --> 00:33:01,800
chief of Rosneft, a 
Russian energy giant.

558
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,733
He is part of President 
Putin's inner circle.

559
00:33:04,733 --> 00:33:09,733
And Oleg Deripaska, a 
billionaire aluminum 
magnate with alleged ties 
to corporate -- sorry

560
00:33:10,466 --> 00:33:12,466
- - to organized crime.

561
00:33:12,466 --> 00:33:16,500
He is also the business partner 
-- or was the business partner 
of now indicted and former

562
00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:19,533
Trump campaign 
chairman Paul Manafort.

563
00:33:19,533 --> 00:33:22,200
Joining us now to talk all 
about this is Andrew Weiss.

564
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,966
He worked for both Republican 
and Democratic administrations 
as a staffer on the National

565
00:33:26,966 --> 00:33:30,233
Security Council and in the 
state and Defense Departments.

566
00:33:30,233 --> 00:33:33,200
He's now at the 
Carnegie Endowment for 
International Peace.

567
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,300
Andrew, thanks for being here.

568
00:33:35,300 --> 00:33:37,266
Let's begin with this list.

569
00:33:37,266 --> 00:33:39,333
What's the point of it?

570
00:33:39,333 --> 00:33:43,033
The Treasury Department was 
careful to say no one on this 
list is being sanctioned, so

571
00:33:43,033 --> 00:33:47,566
why did Congress want to 
draw it up, and what does 
being on that list mean?

572
00:33:47,566 --> 00:33:49,600
ANDREW WEISS, Carnegie Endowment 
for International Peace: Well, 
you said a second ago that the

573
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:54,366
core of the sanctions bill, 
which was approved last summer, 
was basically to tie the hands

574
00:33:54,366 --> 00:33:58,133
of the administration and to 
make sure that there would be 
no precipitous effort by the

575
00:33:58,133 --> 00:34:02,200
new administration to basically 
take the heat off of Vladimir 
Putin for what he's done in

576
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,700
Ukraine, what he's 
doing in Syria, what 
he did in our election.

577
00:34:05,700 --> 00:34:10,700
As an added sort of 
attempt to kind of needle 
this administration to 
do whatever they could

578
00:34:12,666 --> 00:34:16,133
to create so much sort of 
negative valence around Russia's 
business and government figures,

579
00:34:17,666 --> 00:34:19,733
they said compile a 
list and show us how 
dirty these people are.

580
00:34:19,733 --> 00:34:23,200
That wasn't something 
that the administration 
was enthusiastic about.

581
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,966
They have resisted this entire 
sanctions bill tooth and nail.

582
00:34:26,966 --> 00:34:30,766
And then when the time came to 
finally deliver the report to 
Congress, they basically said,

583
00:34:30,766 --> 00:34:35,533
here's a list we have cut and 
pasted out of - - basically 
out of open sources to make the

584
00:34:35,533 --> 00:34:37,633
effect as limited as possible.

585
00:34:37,633 --> 00:34:42,633
JOHN YANG: You say that they 
have fought this sanctions 
bill tooth and nail.

586
00:34:44,566 --> 00:34:47,600
Yesterday, the State Department 
said that the threat of 
sanctions was deterrence enough

587
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,900
against the Russians for 
meddling in the elections.

588
00:34:49,900 --> 00:34:54,900
But then Mike Pompeo, the CIA 
director, said they are already 
trying to meddle in the 2018

589
00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:57,166
elections.

590
00:34:57,166 --> 00:35:00,366
So, what do you say -- 
what's your response or 
how do you take that?

591
00:35:00,366 --> 00:35:04,533
ANDREW WEISS: Well, dysfunction 
and incoherence are now the norm 
in the Trump administration's

592
00:35:04,533 --> 00:35:07,000
foreign policy.

593
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,066
So, the fact that you have 
basically an administration 
where no one really 
trusts them on Russia

594
00:35:10,066 --> 00:35:12,133
policy, people basically 
hear what Donald Trump says.

595
00:35:12,133 --> 00:35:16,266
He talks continuously, 
including last week, about the 
possibility of a new reset with

596
00:35:16,266 --> 00:35:18,333
the Russians.

597
00:35:18,333 --> 00:35:21,100
He continues to exaggerate 
Russia's relevance for 
our foreign policy agenda.

598
00:35:21,100 --> 00:35:24,066
And then you have people down 
below inside the bureaucracy 
who want to show that they're

599
00:35:24,066 --> 00:35:28,100
tough and who want to show 
that Russia's behavior 
will have consequences.

600
00:35:28,100 --> 00:35:30,066
You can't combine 
those two approaches.

601
00:35:30,066 --> 00:35:32,500
JOHN YANG: How is this 
being interpreted in Russia?

602
00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:35,766
ANDREW WEISS: Well, 
right now, Russia is in 
a pre-election frenzy.

603
00:35:35,766 --> 00:35:40,466
And so for Vladimir Putin to 
be able to say, see, the United 
States is targeting us, they

604
00:35:40,466 --> 00:35:44,766
want to bring us back to where 
we were at our low point in 
the 1990s, today, when Vladimir

605
00:35:44,766 --> 00:35:49,600
Putin was speaking on Russian 
television, he said all 146 
million Russians are on this

606
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:51,700
list.

607
00:35:51,700 --> 00:35:54,366
So, what he's trying to do is a 
classic strategy - - he's done 
this consistently over the last

608
00:35:54,366 --> 00:35:57,600
18 years in power -- of 
saying, the West is against us.

609
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,966
And if we rally behind me, 
I will keep Russia strong.

610
00:35:59,966 --> 00:36:01,566
So, in many ways, we 
play into his hands.

611
00:36:01,566 --> 00:36:03,566
JOHN YANG: The first 
round is March 18.

612
00:36:03,566 --> 00:36:07,233
He's saying that this is an 
example of the United States 
trying to meddle in the Russian

613
00:36:07,233 --> 00:36:08,233
election.

614
00:36:08,233 --> 00:36:09,466
ANDREW WEISS: Right.

615
00:36:09,466 --> 00:36:11,466
And that, to me, has 
zero credibility.

616
00:36:11,466 --> 00:36:14,600
And a former president of 
Estonia joke today: I don't know 
what's funnier, the sanctions

617
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,200
being as empty as they 
are or you claiming 
you have an election.

618
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:22,200
JOHN YANG: And, also, what is 
going on with the sort of -- 
is this an effort on Vladimir

619
00:36:24,166 --> 00:36:28,733
Putin to sort of boost the 
turnout, to try to really get a 
big -- look like a huge mandate

620
00:36:29,466 --> 00:36:31,466
out of this election?

621
00:36:31,466 --> 00:36:33,400
ANDREW WEISS: That's where 
the Kremlin is I think 
legitimately worried.

622
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,300
The lack of any real competitive 
political process, the lack 
of any drama about this

623
00:36:36,300 --> 00:36:41,266
election has basically put 
most of the Russian body 
politic into a snooze mode.

624
00:36:41,266 --> 00:36:46,266
And there is very little 
to get them excited 
enough to return Vladimir 
Putin for his presumably

625
00:36:47,733 --> 00:36:50,266
fourth and final term with a 
big turnout or a big boost.

626
00:36:50,266 --> 00:36:55,066
So, at this point, there's 
mostly inertia, apathy, 
and lack of alternatives 
that is cementing

627
00:36:55,666 --> 00:36:57,133
his rule.

628
00:36:57,133 --> 00:37:00,300
JOHN YANG: And is the opposition 
trying to get turnout down?

629
00:37:00,300 --> 00:37:02,766
ANDREW WEISS: Yes.

630
00:37:02,766 --> 00:37:05,966
So, on Sunday, there 
were demonstrations 
across Russia convened 
by the Russian opposition

631
00:37:05,966 --> 00:37:09,333
leader, Alexei Navalny, 
who is calling for a 
boycott of election.

632
00:37:09,333 --> 00:37:13,133
The Kremlin is clearly very 
concerned about that and is 
doing whatever it can to push

633
00:37:13,133 --> 00:37:15,666
him basically out of the news.

634
00:37:15,666 --> 00:37:18,366
JOHN YANG: Andrew Weiss 
at the Carnegie Endowment 
for International Peace, 
thanks for helping

635
00:37:18,366 --> 00:37:21,000
us understand this.

636
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:26,000
ANDREW WEISS: Thank you.

637
00:37:28,633 --> 00:37:33,633
JUDY WOODRUFF: When a county 
in Southern Ohio saw a 
sharp spike in the number 
of fatal opioid-related

638
00:37:37,666 --> 00:37:42,666
overdoses, they responded 
by forming PORT, the Post 
Overdose Response Team.

639
00:37:44,666 --> 00:37:49,033
Esther Honig of Side Effects, 
which is a Public Media project, 
reports how Ross County, Ohio,

640
00:37:51,166 --> 00:37:55,300
has enlisted local law 
enforcement, addiction 
treatment services and 
the health department

641
00:37:56,500 --> 00:37:58,533
to work together and 
help curb overdoses.

642
00:37:58,533 --> 00:38:03,300
ESTHER HONIG: Every Wednesday, 
morning in Chillicothe, Ohio, 
this overdose task force

643
00:38:04,566 --> 00:38:06,666
meets.

644
00:38:06,666 --> 00:38:09,533
There's a police officer, a 
sheriff's deputy, and a social 
worker from a local addiction

645
00:38:09,533 --> 00:38:11,600
treatment center.

646
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,066
The group sets out to follow 
up with each person in Ross 
County who overdosed the week

647
00:38:15,066 --> 00:38:16,066
before.

648
00:38:16,066 --> 00:38:17,266
Their mission?

649
00:38:17,266 --> 00:38:19,733
Get them into treatment.

650
00:38:19,733 --> 00:38:24,733
The program started after a 
string of fatal overdoses in 
2016, and county leaders came

651
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,700
together to find a solution.

652
00:38:27,700 --> 00:38:30,966
DAVE WEBER, Ross County Deputy 
Sheriff: Out of the meetings 
came a decision that we needed

653
00:38:30,966 --> 00:38:35,866
some type of team to go out 
and speak with people that have 
overdosed, either their families

654
00:38:35,866 --> 00:38:38,900
or both family and 
the overdose victim.

655
00:38:38,900 --> 00:38:43,100
And somebody named it 
PORT, which is a Post 
Overdose Response Team.

656
00:38:43,100 --> 00:38:46,733
ESTHER HONIG: PORT allows 
law enforcement to take on 
the role of a social worker.

657
00:38:46,733 --> 00:38:51,033
They talk to residents about 
addiction and help them find 
treatment, even if that means

658
00:38:51,033 --> 00:38:55,133
driving them to facilities out 
of state when there's nothing 
available in their area.

659
00:38:55,133 --> 00:38:58,600
Today, the team follows up 
with just four overdoses.

660
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,800
In the past, they have 
had as many as 20.

661
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,533
DAVE WEBER: I would just 
like to come in one day, 
and we don't have any.

662
00:39:04,533 --> 00:39:08,866
ESTHER HONIG: At their first 
stop, resident Chad Lurty is 
shocked when the PORT team tells

663
00:39:08,866 --> 00:39:10,933
him his friend struggles 
with addiction.

664
00:39:10,933 --> 00:39:14,833
CHAD LURTY, Ohio Resident: 
I think very highly of 
him, and my heart's broke.

665
00:39:14,833 --> 00:39:16,900
I had no idea he had a problem.

666
00:39:16,900 --> 00:39:21,233
ESTHER HONIG: Recently, PORT 
began offering training on how 
to use the overdose reversal

667
00:39:21,233 --> 00:39:23,333
drug naloxone, also 
known as Narcan.

668
00:39:23,333 --> 00:39:27,966
Dave Weber, one of the 
deputies, said that you're in a 
position to be really helpful

669
00:39:27,966 --> 00:39:28,966
in this situation.

670
00:39:28,966 --> 00:39:30,233
CHAD LURTY: I will try.

671
00:39:30,233 --> 00:39:32,233
I don't want to see anybody die.

672
00:39:32,233 --> 00:39:34,733
ESTHER HONIG: And you 
think you might go through 
the Narcan training?

673
00:39:34,733 --> 00:39:37,633
CHAD LURTY: I'm going to 
very seriously consider that.

674
00:39:37,633 --> 00:39:42,133
ESTHER HONIG: Here in 
Ross County, the rate 
of fatal opioid-related 
overdoses is nearly

675
00:39:42,133 --> 00:39:45,300
double the national average and 
one of the highest in the state.

676
00:39:45,300 --> 00:39:50,300
Now, PORT, with a relatively 
small budget, has managed to 
get people the resources they

677
00:39:52,300 --> 00:39:55,500
need in time to hopefully 
prevent more of these 
overdoses from happening.

678
00:39:55,500 --> 00:39:57,900
Still, not everyone 
supports what they do.

679
00:39:57,900 --> 00:40:02,333
DAVE WEBER: We have some 
people that are upset 
that we give them Narcan.

680
00:40:02,333 --> 00:40:07,333
You know, they say that 
it was this person's 
choice to do it, you know?

681
00:40:08,533 --> 00:40:11,700
But we kind of -- 
we don't buy that.

682
00:40:11,700 --> 00:40:15,900
My response to them is, what 
if it were your son, daughter, 
wife, or husband laying on

683
00:40:15,900 --> 00:40:17,366
the ground?

684
00:40:17,366 --> 00:40:19,433
Would you want us to turn 
around and walk away?

685
00:40:19,433 --> 00:40:21,866
ESTHER HONIG: You guys need 
to go to them because these 
people are not in a situation

686
00:40:21,866 --> 00:40:24,800
where they can necessarily 
seek out help themselves.

687
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,266
DAVE WEBER: Right, right, yes.

688
00:40:26,266 --> 00:40:28,200
When we first get there, they're 
reluctant to speak with us.

689
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,500
We explain what we're 
there for, and we're not 
going to arrest them.

690
00:40:31,500 --> 00:40:33,200
We're not there in a law 
enforcement capacity.

691
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,166
And most of them open 
up and talk to us.

692
00:40:35,166 --> 00:40:38,866
ESTHER HONIG: Jessica 
Lutz overdosed at a 
store with her daughters.

693
00:40:38,866 --> 00:40:42,066
She remembers when the 
PORT team came to her 
door a few days later.

694
00:40:42,066 --> 00:40:46,566
JESSICA LUTZ, Resident 
in Recovery: My doorbell 
rang, and I was scared 
to death, because here

695
00:40:46,566 --> 00:40:51,566
comes my mom, like, there's 
an officer and a woman at your 
front door and they want to

696
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,500
talk to you.

697
00:40:54,500 --> 00:40:56,733
And I walked out there, and 
the officer said - - he said, 
I'm not here to arrest you.

698
00:40:56,733 --> 00:40:58,700
I'm just here to 
make sure she's OK.

699
00:40:58,700 --> 00:41:00,200
She would just like 
to talk to you.

700
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,200
And I met Tracy Hathaway (ph).

701
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,933
ESTHER HONIG: The social worker, 
who was also a recovering 
addict, convinced Jessica that

702
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:09,866
there were resources that 
would help her get clean.

703
00:41:09,866 --> 00:41:13,066
JESSICA LUTZ: There is hope 
that people can recover.

704
00:41:13,066 --> 00:41:15,100
She was doing it.

705
00:41:15,100 --> 00:41:18,400
There was this place of people 
that were doing it all the time 
that I didn't know existed,

706
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,866
you know, all these recovery 
places that we don't hear about.

707
00:41:21,866 --> 00:41:26,866
ESTHER HONIG: PORT got 
Jessica into outpatient 
care immediately, and 
after a month a bed

708
00:41:27,733 --> 00:41:31,100
at a nearby recovery center.

709
00:41:31,100 --> 00:41:35,566
Right now, there are only a 
few programs like this in Ohio, 
but local lawmakers recently

710
00:41:35,566 --> 00:41:40,533
put aside over a million dollars 
to be able to replicate PORT 
in cities across the state.

711
00:41:40,533 --> 00:41:43,000
And the stakes are 
higher than ever.

712
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,733
Each day, more than 142 
people in the U.S. die 
from a drug overdose.

713
00:41:47,733 --> 00:41:52,733
That's more than the number of 
people who die from gun violence 
and car accidents combined.

714
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:55,766
It's something that Jessica 
doesn't take for granted.

715
00:41:55,766 --> 00:41:59,200
She came from rehab and credits 
PORT with having saved her life.

716
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:04,200
JESSICA LUTZ: Just to have that 
conversation after something 
like that happens, and no

717
00:42:05,333 --> 00:42:06,633
matter who you are, 
that's so scary.

718
00:42:06,633 --> 00:42:09,100
We don't want to die.

719
00:42:09,100 --> 00:42:12,066
We just don't know 
how not to use.

720
00:42:12,066 --> 00:42:17,066
And to find somebody that 
understands that and knows that 
we don't want to wake up and

721
00:42:19,100 --> 00:42:21,600
do these things every day, we 
don't -- there's no pleasure 
in what we have to go through

722
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:26,600
each and every day, just to 
listen to that conversation and 
know that it really can happen

723
00:42:27,766 --> 00:42:29,500
is what changed 
everything for me.

724
00:42:29,500 --> 00:42:34,500
For the "PBS NewsHour," 
I'm Esther Honig in 
Chillicothe, Ohio.

725
00:42:38,500 --> 00:42:43,500
JUDY WOODRUFF: The deadline 
to work out an immigration 
agreement is a little more than

726
00:42:47,433 --> 00:42:49,000
a week away.

727
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:53,100
One of the key dividing lines, 
what to do about dreamers.

728
00:42:53,100 --> 00:42:57,833
President Trump has said he 
plans to scrap the Deferred 
Action for Childhood Arrivals

729
00:42:57,833 --> 00:43:02,366
program, known as DACA, 
this spring unless a 
deal can be worked out.

730
00:43:02,366 --> 00:43:07,366
In California and other states, 
teachers are on the front 
lines and student anxiety is

731
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:09,733
on the rise.

732
00:43:09,733 --> 00:43:12,800
We have a story from one of 
our Student Reporting Labs.

733
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,333
It's reported by 
Fernando Cienfuegos.

734
00:43:15,333 --> 00:43:19,066
He's a junior at Northview High 
School in Southern California.

735
00:43:19,066 --> 00:43:21,400
It's for our weekly 
segment Making the Grade.

736
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,800
PAULINA, Student: Northview 
When DACA got rescinded, I 
didn't really know where to go.

737
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,266
It was just a very numb feeling.

738
00:43:28,266 --> 00:43:32,366
FERNANDO CIENFUEGOS: 
Paulina Garcia is a recent 
Northview High School 
graduate and DACA recipient.

739
00:43:32,366 --> 00:43:35,966
She attends Mount San 
Antonio Community College.

740
00:43:35,966 --> 00:43:40,966
She says her high school 
teachers were critical 
in helping her get there.

741
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,566
They outlined the steps she 
had to take as an undocumented 
student to get to graduation.

742
00:43:45,566 --> 00:43:49,933
PAULINA: If I didn't have Ms. 
Arellanes, I think I wouldn't 
have been as inspired to

743
00:43:49,933 --> 00:43:52,100
continue on my education.

744
00:43:52,100 --> 00:43:56,900
She would constantly give me 
paperwork and paperwork about 
dream, the DREAM Act, dreamers'

745
00:43:56,900 --> 00:43:58,966
financial aid.

746
00:43:58,966 --> 00:44:01,900
And that was very, very helpful, 
because I didn't know where 
else to get that information.

747
00:44:01,900 --> 00:44:04,600
Just the immense amount 
of belief they had in me.

748
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,433
YEMINA ARELLANES, Teacher: Are 
you going to mention why you 
just began working this year?

749
00:44:08,433 --> 00:44:12,000
PAULINA: I just starting 
working this year I barely 
got my DACA this year.

750
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:13,633
So, I'm just...

751
00:44:13,633 --> 00:44:15,633
YEMINA ARELLANES: But 
you are not going to 
put it in the statement?

752
00:44:15,633 --> 00:44:18,233
FERNANDO CIENFUEGOS: Yemina 
Arellanes teaches economics and 
provides college advising at

753
00:44:18,233 --> 00:44:20,600
Northview High School 
in Covina, California.

754
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:25,000
She is one of a growing number 
of educators who independently 
sought training to support

755
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:26,966
undocumented students.

756
00:44:26,966 --> 00:44:30,866
YEMINA ARELLANES: What motivated 
me to help undocumented 
students here at Northview was

757
00:44:30,866 --> 00:44:33,400
actually seeing the need.

758
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,766
They really didn't 
know where to go.

759
00:44:35,766 --> 00:44:38,800
FERNANDO CIENFUEGOS: The 
Trump administration's 
approach towards 
immigration actually scares

760
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,766
some students.

761
00:44:40,766 --> 00:44:44,500
YEMINA ARELLANES: They have got 
a deep-seated struggle going 
on within them, because as

762
00:44:44,500 --> 00:44:49,500
hard as they work and as much 
as they want to be educated, 
they have this fear inside

763
00:44:51,366 --> 00:44:55,033
that perhaps within the next 
few years, no matter how 
educated they are, they might be

764
00:44:55,900 --> 00:44:57,966
removed from this country.

765
00:44:57,966 --> 00:45:01,766
We're still trying to rebuild 
that trust and let them know 
that it's OK to come to us,

766
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,800
that we're not going to work 
against them and that we're 
not going to turn them in.

767
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,600
FERNANDO CIENFUEGOS: An 
estimated 271,000 undocumented 
students are enrolled in the

768
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:15,500
California K-12 public school 
system, the largest number 
in the country, according to

769
00:45:15,500 --> 00:45:17,633
the Migration Policy Institute.

770
00:45:17,633 --> 00:45:22,466
In 1982, the U.S. Supreme 
Court ruled that undocumented 
children have the right to a

771
00:45:22,466 --> 00:45:24,966
public education.

772
00:45:24,966 --> 00:45:28,600
Immigration advocates say that 
these students are a special 
needs group who would benefit

773
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:33,600
from schools providing 
counseling, legal advice, 
and federal immigration 
policy information

774
00:45:34,333 --> 00:45:36,366
to their student body.

775
00:45:36,366 --> 00:45:40,466
Claremont Graduate University 
Professor William Perez studies 
the social and psychological

776
00:45:40,466 --> 00:45:42,433
development of 
immigrant students.

777
00:45:42,433 --> 00:45:44,933
He says teachers need tools.

778
00:45:44,933 --> 00:45:47,433
WILLIAM PEREZ, Claremont 
Graduate University: 
They're in desperate 
need of information about

779
00:45:47,433 --> 00:45:49,933
all the legislation.

780
00:45:49,933 --> 00:45:54,933
Teachers go online and they 
will Google things, or they will 
find out about Webinars or they

781
00:45:56,966 --> 00:46:00,000
will find out about something 
that -- where they can go and 
sort of educate themselves.

782
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,500
But being done in a 
very unsystematic way.

783
00:46:03,500 --> 00:46:07,866
FERNANDO CIENFUEGOS: Dr. Perez 
has launched the nation's first 
allies-to-dreamers certificate

784
00:46:07,866 --> 00:46:09,933
program.

785
00:46:09,933 --> 00:46:13,133
The course trains 
educators how to support 
undocumented students 
transitioning to college

786
00:46:13,133 --> 00:46:15,233
and into the work force.

787
00:46:15,233 --> 00:46:19,466
WILLIAM PEREZ: Teachers need to 
be well-equipped to be able to 
be responsive to their students.

788
00:46:21,733 --> 00:46:24,500
FERNANDO CIENFUEGOS: 
Despite supporting 
undocumented students, some 
conservatives, like Santa Ana

789
00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:29,500
School Board member Cecilia 
Iglesias, believe academics 
should be the focus.

790
00:46:31,366 --> 00:46:32,833
CECILIA IGLESIAS, Santa Ana 
School Board: Santa Ana, 
traditionally, historically, we

791
00:46:32,833 --> 00:46:35,233
have been underperforming, 
which means failing our kids.

792
00:46:35,233 --> 00:46:39,533
And in the past 10 
years, we have been on 
program improvement.

793
00:46:39,533 --> 00:46:41,166
And those are the things 
we should be talking about.

794
00:46:41,166 --> 00:46:43,200
That's why we were elected.

795
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:47,166
If we wanted to go into be 
affecting immigration policy, 
we should go into Congress.

796
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:50,966
Politics should never come into 
it when it comes to education.

797
00:46:50,966 --> 00:46:55,600
FERNANDO CIENFUEGOS: Still, 
teachers like Yemina Arellanes 
say more must be done.

798
00:46:55,600 --> 00:47:00,633
YEMINA ARELLANES: I wish that 
the district would really 
work to educate our teachers,

799
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,533
perhaps bring in some guest 
speakers of students who have 
graduated and have succeeded who

800
00:47:09,033 --> 00:47:12,633
were undocumented, so that 
everybody can see that 
our kids and other kids 
that are undocumented,

801
00:47:14,300 --> 00:47:18,400
they make it, they make 
it, if they have the 
support from the adults.

802
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:23,300
FERNANDO CIENFUEGOS: 
For the "PBS NewsHour"'s 
Student Reporting Labs, 
I'm Fernando Cienfuegos

803
00:47:23,300 --> 00:47:28,300
in Covina, California.

804
00:47:29,700 --> 00:47:34,300
JUDY WOODRUFF: Now to 
the "NewsHour" Bookshelf.

805
00:47:37,066 --> 00:47:39,333
So, when do you work best?

806
00:47:39,333 --> 00:47:42,100
Are you a night owl 
or an early bird?

807
00:47:42,100 --> 00:47:45,400
Jeffrey Brown explores 
these questions with 
author Daniel Pink.

808
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,733
JEFFREY BROWN: There are plenty 
of how-to books out there.

809
00:47:48,733 --> 00:47:53,733
Now comes a when-to, the 
best time of book the 
take an exam, say, or 
have a medical procedure,

810
00:47:55,700 --> 00:47:59,533
and big life decision, 
getting married, getting 
divorced, quitting a job.

811
00:47:59,533 --> 00:48:04,000
The book is titled "When: 
The Scientific Secrets 
of Perfect Timing."

812
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,400
And author Daniel 
Pink joins me now.

813
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,433
Dan, hello.

814
00:48:08,433 --> 00:48:09,933
DANIEL PINK, Author, "When: 
The Scientific Secrets of 
Perfect Timing": Hello, Jeff.

815
00:48:09,933 --> 00:48:11,300
JEFFREY BROWN: Let me start 
with a when question for you.

816
00:48:11,300 --> 00:48:13,366
When did you get interested 
in this, and why?

817
00:48:13,366 --> 00:48:16,866
DANIEL PINK: Well, I realized 
that I was making all kinds of 
when decisions myself, so things

818
00:48:16,866 --> 00:48:19,200
like, when in the day 
should I exercise?

819
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,266
When should I abandon a 
project that's not working?

820
00:48:21,266 --> 00:48:23,966
And I was making them in 
a pretty haphazard way.

821
00:48:23,966 --> 00:48:25,800
And I figured I could 
make them in a better way.

822
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:27,800
And I started looking 
at this research.

823
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,800
And there is a mountain of 
research out there across many, 
many domains that allow us to

824
00:48:33,766 --> 00:48:37,533
make evidence-based, 
systematically smarter, 
shrewder decisions 
about when to do things.

825
00:48:38,666 --> 00:48:39,600
JEFFREY BROWN: 
Smarter, shrewder.

826
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:40,400
That subtitle, "Science," right?

827
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:41,900
DANIEL PINK: Sure.

828
00:48:41,900 --> 00:48:43,566
JEFFREY BROWN: So, that's the 
data that you're looking at.

829
00:48:43,566 --> 00:48:45,733
DANIEL PINK: Oh, yes, yes, yes.

830
00:48:45,733 --> 00:48:49,566
It's data that comes in 
the field of economics, 
social psychology, but 
also cognitive science,

831
00:48:50,433 --> 00:48:51,633
anesthesiology, endocrinology.

832
00:48:51,633 --> 00:48:53,966
There's a whole field 
of chronobiology.

833
00:48:53,966 --> 00:48:56,033
Linguistics gives us some clues.

834
00:48:56,033 --> 00:48:58,666
So, this research is 
all over the place.

835
00:48:58,666 --> 00:49:01,733
But in these different 
disciplines, they're asking 
very, very similar questions.

836
00:49:01,733 --> 00:49:04,500
JEFFREY BROWN: All right, 
so daily routines first.

837
00:49:04,500 --> 00:49:07,733
You're teasing out some of 
the patterns of our lives.

838
00:49:07,733 --> 00:49:11,966
DANIEL PINK: Well, what it shows 
is that both our mood and our 
performance follow a fairly

839
00:49:11,966 --> 00:49:14,166
regular pattern across a day.

840
00:49:14,166 --> 00:49:17,500
So we usually have a peak, 
a trough, and a rebound.

841
00:49:17,500 --> 00:49:19,866
So our peak for most 
people is in the morning.

842
00:49:19,866 --> 00:49:24,233
You have a trough in the early 
afternoon, and then we have 
this rebound, recovery period

843
00:49:24,233 --> 00:49:26,233
later in the day.

844
00:49:26,233 --> 00:49:29,000
Now, for people who are 
night owls, they go through 
it in the reverse order.

845
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:33,233
But what the research tells us 
is that we should be doing our 
analytic work, our heads-down,

846
00:49:33,233 --> 00:49:34,733
lockdown work during the peak.

847
00:49:34,733 --> 00:49:37,933
During the trough, it's 
not good for very much.

848
00:49:37,933 --> 00:49:42,033
We should be doing our 
-- we should be avoiding 
going to the hospital 
and answering our routine

849
00:49:42,033 --> 00:49:44,066
e-mail.

850
00:49:44,066 --> 00:49:47,100
And then, during the recovery, 
we have an elevated mood, 
but we're less vigilant than

851
00:49:47,100 --> 00:49:49,200
during the peak.

852
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,800
And that makes it a very 
good time for things 
like brainstorming and 
other kinds of creative

853
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:53,466
work.

854
00:49:53,466 --> 00:49:56,300
And just moving our work 
just a little bit can 
make a big difference.

855
00:49:56,300 --> 00:50:01,066
There's research showing that 
time of day explains about 
20 percent of the variance

856
00:50:01,066 --> 00:50:03,333
in human performance 
on workplace tasks.

857
00:50:03,333 --> 00:50:05,466
So timing isn't everything, 
but it's a big thing.

858
00:50:05,466 --> 00:50:09,566
JEFFREY BROWN: So the important 
thing is knowing who you 
are, in a sense, right?

859
00:50:09,566 --> 00:50:10,800
DANIEL PINK: Yes.

860
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:12,133
Some of us have what 
are early chronotypes.

861
00:50:12,133 --> 00:50:13,133
We're larks.

862
00:50:13,133 --> 00:50:15,200
Get up early, go to sleep early.

863
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,633
Some people have evening 
chronotypes, owls, go to 
sleep late, wake up late.

864
00:50:18,633 --> 00:50:21,400
Most of us are kind of 
in the middle, what I 
called third birds.

865
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:26,400
But the people who are larks 
and third birds peak, trough, 
recovery fairly predictably.

866
00:50:27,966 --> 00:50:30,233
The people who are owls, 
recovery, trough, peak 
fairly predictably.

867
00:50:30,233 --> 00:50:34,400
JEFFREY BROWN: There is so much 
fun to reading this, and then 
there's the scary things like,

868
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,166
don't go have a medical 
preening in the afternoon.

869
00:50:37,166 --> 00:50:38,400
That's not a good idea.

870
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,433
DANIEL PINK: That is 
really not a good idea.

871
00:50:40,433 --> 00:50:43,000
It's kind of alarming if you 
look at some of the research.

872
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:47,966
Anesthesia errors, four 
times more likely at 3:00 
p.m. than at 9:00 a.m.

873
00:50:47,966 --> 00:50:52,966
Endoscopists find half as many 
polyps in routine colonoscopies 
in afternoon exams vs. morning

874
00:50:53,466 --> 00:50:56,133
exams.

875
00:50:56,133 --> 00:50:58,400
Nurses less likely to wash 
their hands, physicians 
more likely to prescribe 
unnecessary antibiotics

876
00:50:58,400 --> 00:50:59,400
in the afternoon.

877
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,433
JEFFREY BROWN: Yes.

878
00:51:01,433 --> 00:51:05,400
So, speaking of afternoon, 
taking breaks is clearly -- 
breaking up the day, which leads

879
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,466
to the question of naps, 
for example, everyone 
is familiar with that.

880
00:51:09,466 --> 00:51:14,466
But you're not talking just 
about taking a nap, but very 
specific amounts of time, right?

881
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:16,700
DANIEL PINK: Yes.

882
00:51:16,700 --> 00:51:18,833
The research on naps shows that 
naps are actually good for us.

883
00:51:18,833 --> 00:51:22,900
I'm a convert on this in that 
any time I took a nap myself, 
I would always wake up feeling

884
00:51:22,900 --> 00:51:24,733
both groggy and deeply 
ashamed of myself.

885
00:51:24,733 --> 00:51:25,733
(LAUGHTER)

886
00:51:25,733 --> 00:51:26,966
JEFFREY BROWN: Right.

887
00:51:26,966 --> 00:51:28,200
DANIEL PINK: So, 
for being so lazy.

888
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:28,866
And it turns out I 
was doing it wrong.

889
00:51:28,866 --> 00:51:30,100
The ideal nap...

890
00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:31,033
JEFFREY BROWN: We don't 
have the siesta idea.

891
00:51:31,033 --> 00:51:33,000
DANIEL PINK: No, not at all.

892
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,333
No, I have both the 
hyper-puritanical and 
hyper-masculine approach 
to things, which

893
00:51:36,333 --> 00:51:38,333
is a toxic mix.

894
00:51:38,333 --> 00:51:42,933
But what we know about naps 
is that 10 to 20 minutes is 
actually the ideal time to take

895
00:51:43,433 --> 00:51:44,733
a nap.

896
00:51:44,733 --> 00:51:46,566
You get all of the 
benefits of a nap.

897
00:51:46,566 --> 00:51:48,900
I think of naps as 
Zambonis for our brains.

898
00:51:48,900 --> 00:51:52,433
They basically smooth out 
the nicks on our mental ice.

899
00:51:52,433 --> 00:51:55,000
But without any of what's 
called sleep inertia.

900
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:59,066
And the ideal nap is something 
called the nappuccino, where 
you have a cup of coffee

901
00:51:59,066 --> 00:52:00,400
first.

902
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,766
Set your alarm for 
maybe 25 minutes.

903
00:52:02,766 --> 00:52:04,466
Take a nap.

904
00:52:04,466 --> 00:52:06,166
By the time you wake 
up, the caffeine will 
be hitting your body.

905
00:52:06,166 --> 00:52:07,166
JEFFREY BROWN: Yes, I read this.

906
00:52:07,166 --> 00:52:08,266
And this one really hit me.

907
00:52:08,266 --> 00:52:09,266
DANIEL PINK: It works.

908
00:52:09,266 --> 00:52:10,500
JEFFREY BROWN: It works.

909
00:52:10,500 --> 00:52:11,300
Drink the coffee, then 
take the 20-minute nap.

910
00:52:11,300 --> 00:52:13,933
DANIEL PINK: Right.

911
00:52:13,933 --> 00:52:17,266
JEFFREY BROWN: Now, at 
the end of every chapter, 
you have what you call the 
time hacker's handbook.

912
00:52:18,433 --> 00:52:19,933
And you are really 
giving people tips.

913
00:52:19,933 --> 00:52:22,533
You think it's practical enough 
that we can change our lives.

914
00:52:22,533 --> 00:52:23,533
DANIEL PINK: Sure.

915
00:52:23,533 --> 00:52:24,766
Absolutely.

916
00:52:24,766 --> 00:52:26,800
I don't think you can 
transform your life.

917
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,800
If you are overweight and lazy, 
changing your approach your 
time isn't convert you in that

918
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:31,900
way.

919
00:52:31,900 --> 00:52:34,366
But what I'm trying to do here 
is that there's some really 
amazing science out there that

920
00:52:34,366 --> 00:52:36,833
gives us insights 
into who we are.

921
00:52:36,833 --> 00:52:40,600
But I find that if you can 
take some of that science and 
put it into place in your own

922
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:44,533
life, it's meaningful and you 
understand the science better.

923
00:52:44,533 --> 00:52:46,900
JEFFREY BROWN: Have you changed 
your own life, found time?

924
00:52:46,900 --> 00:52:48,200
DANIEL PINK: Oh, absolutely.

925
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,000
So, I am a convert on breaks.

926
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,500
I always write down two 
breaks in the afternoon 
that I'm going to take.

927
00:52:52,500 --> 00:52:54,066
I make a break list.

928
00:52:54,066 --> 00:52:57,233
I have also been a convert 
on good news and bad news.

929
00:52:57,233 --> 00:53:01,500
I always gave the good 
news first, because I 
wanted to be a nice guy.

930
00:53:01,500 --> 00:53:05,600
But what you really want 
to do is give the bad news 
first, end on that elevation.

931
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:07,700
That's one thing that 
endings do for us.

932
00:53:07,700 --> 00:53:11,966
So, I have become not only a 
break-taker, but the king of 
delivering bad news first.

933
00:53:11,966 --> 00:53:13,966
(LAUGHTER)

934
00:53:13,966 --> 00:53:17,133
JEFFREY BROWN: The book 
is "When: The Scientific 
Secrets of Perfect Timing."

935
00:53:17,133 --> 00:53:18,600
Dan Pink, thanks so much.

936
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:19,800
DANIEL PINK: My pleasure.

937
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:20,800
JUDY WOODRUFF: Fascinating.

938
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:22,466
I'm getting that book.

939
00:53:22,466 --> 00:53:24,733
Online right now, you 
can read something else.

940
00:53:24,733 --> 00:53:29,733
And that is about the famous 
Mississippi prison that became a 
haunted setting in Jesmyn Ward's

941
00:53:31,166 --> 00:53:34,800
National Book Award-winning 2017 
novel, "Sing, Unburied, Sing."

942
00:53:36,766 --> 00:53:40,200
Plus, tomorrow on the 
"NewsHour," we will 
speak to Jesmyn Ward 
as part of our new Book

943
00:53:41,666 --> 00:53:44,733
Club, in partnership with The 
New York Times, Now Read This.

944
00:53:44,733 --> 00:53:46,866
And that's the 
"NewsHour" for now.

945
00:53:46,866 --> 00:53:51,400
Please join us tonight at 9:00 
p.m. Eastern for special live 
coverage of President Trump's

946
00:53:52,533 --> 00:53:54,566
first State of 
the Union address.

947
00:53:54,566 --> 00:53:58,300
Early excerpts show that Mr. 
Trump will call on Democrats to 
work with him and Republicans

948
00:53:58,300 --> 00:54:00,966
on immigration and 
infrastructure.

949
00:54:00,966 --> 00:54:03,833
Follow along online for 
additional analysis.

950
00:54:03,833 --> 00:54:05,866
I'm Judy Woodruff.

951
00:54:05,866 --> 00:54:09,966
For all of us at the "PBS 
NewsHour," thank you, 
and we'll see you soon.