WEBVTT 00:02.033 --> 00:05.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: We are in the final weeks before the midterm elections, and nearly 1.8 million 00:05.300 --> 00:08.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Americans have already cast a ballot. 00:08.333 --> 00:13.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Meanwhile, in Washington, the January 6 Committee has voted to subpoena former President Trump 00:13.333 --> 00:17.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% as part of its investigation into the attack on the U.S. Capitol. 00:17.800 --> 00:21.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% That brings us to the analysis of Brooks and Capehart. 00:21.033 --> 00:26.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% That is New York Times columnist David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart, columnist for The Washington 00:26.566 --> 00:27.566 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Post. 00:27.566 --> 00:28.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Hello to both of you. 00:28.566 --> 00:30.600 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% JONATHAN CAPEHART: Judy. 00:30.600 --> 00:31.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: It is very good to see you smiling, both of your smiling faces. 00:31.566 --> 00:32.733 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 00:32.733 --> 00:34.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: I think you're smiling. 00:34.833 --> 00:38.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So, the January 6 Committee, David, ninth public hearing, and they did vote, as we just 00:39.933 --> 00:41.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% said, to subpoena the former president. 00:41.966 --> 00:43.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We don't know whether he's going to come. 00:43.966 --> 00:46.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% If he did -- first of all, do you think you will? 00:46.366 --> 00:48.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And if he did, do you think it would make a difference? 00:48.233 --> 00:50.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% DAVID BROOKS: If he did, I think cows would fly. 00:50.466 --> 00:52.033 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 00:52.033 --> 00:53.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I don't think he's going to do it. 00:53.733 --> 00:56.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Well, first, would it make a difference? 00:56.300 --> 00:58.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% In the polling, nothing has made a difference. 00:58.366 --> 01:02.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% The public opinion is exactly where it was when this commission first -- committee first 01:02.400 --> 01:04.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% started going, so nothing has changed. 01:04.466 --> 01:08.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I -- the reason I don't think he's going to do it is, even though he has said he wants 01:08.300 --> 01:13.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to do it, and he believes he's his best advocate, he's being investigated by the Justice Department 01:14.800 --> 01:16.833 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% for the same thing. 01:16.833 --> 01:21.100 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% No lawyer lets their client go under oath and confess something he's being investigated 01:21.700 --> 01:23.700 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% over here. 01:23.700 --> 01:26.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so he's already shown he can take -- he's willing to take the Fifth, as he did in the 01:26.766 --> 01:30.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% New York state -- New York investigations. 01:30.333 --> 01:35.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so I just think that spectacle is one we will have to just dream about. 01:35.333 --> 01:36.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Cows flying? 01:36.666 --> 01:38.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% What do you see, Jonathan? 01:38.200 --> 01:39.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JONATHAN CAPEHART: I mean, I would love to see cows fly. 01:39.266 --> 01:40.766 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 01:40.766 --> 01:42.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JONATHAN CAPEHART: But I know I will be disappointed. 01:42.233 --> 01:43.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Until you're standing under one. 01:43.000 --> 01:44.300 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 01:44.300 --> 01:45.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JONATHAN CAPEHART: Well, that's true. 01:45.800 --> 01:48.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: All right, we just started here. 01:48.300 --> 01:49.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JONATHAN CAPEHART: Right. 01:49.300 --> 01:50.300 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Right. 01:50.300 --> 01:52.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So, he's not going to testify. 01:52.333 --> 01:56.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I don't think the January 6 Committee had any expectation that he would. 01:56.200 --> 02:01.166 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% However, I do think that the January 6 Committee felt it was important, given all the evidence 02:03.000 --> 02:07.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that they had, given all the evidence that they had presented to the American people 02:07.133 --> 02:11.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% over nine hearings, that it was the logical thing to do. 02:11.366 --> 02:14.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I think it was the right thing to do, whether he shows up or not, because what they 02:14.900 --> 02:19.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% are doing is investigating an attack on the United States instigated by the president 02:20.633 --> 02:22.666 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% of the United States. 02:22.666 --> 02:26.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And the report -- these hearings and the report that will be released later in the fall is 02:28.400 --> 02:31.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% as much for the American people right now as it is for the American people and the world 02:32.500 --> 02:33.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% decades down the road. 02:33.466 --> 02:35.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% There needs to be an accounting. 02:35.066 --> 02:37.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And what the committee has done is part of that. 02:37.300 --> 02:38.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: About history. 02:38.533 --> 02:40.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JONATHAN CAPEHART: About history, yes. 02:40.633 --> 02:43.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Is one -- I know you -- and you were saying that earlier today. 02:43.300 --> 02:47.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But, David, I mean, we don't know what's going to happen in the midterm elections, clearly, 02:47.333 --> 02:52.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but if -- if this committee wraps it up in a few weeks, and Democrats lose the majority 02:54.333 --> 02:57.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in the House, what, in sum, will this committee have accomplished, do you think? 02:57.633 --> 03:00.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I don't think it will have much political effect on the midterms. 03:00.600 --> 03:04.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think people are pretty locked in and they're voting on their own lives, not so much on 03:04.500 --> 03:05.700 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% January 6. 03:05.700 --> 03:07.733 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% But it surprised me. 03:07.733 --> 03:12.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I -- it -- there was a lot more to investigate and a lot more to reveal than I knew about 03:13.533 --> 03:15.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and I think a lot of us knew about. 03:15.633 --> 03:19.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Like, we all saw January 6 on January 6, but there was a lot of behind-the-scenes things. 03:19.433 --> 03:23.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% There was a lot more planning and plotting than we knew about. 03:23.433 --> 03:28.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And then just the -- to get the members of the Trump administration, some of his allies, 03:30.433 --> 03:32.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% some of the Proud Boys, some of the -- to get the testimony from those sorts of people, 03:32.900 --> 03:35.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% very incriminating testimony. 03:35.000 --> 03:39.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% So it will, A, be part of the historical record and, B, potentially be a groundwork for -- if 03:41.133 --> 03:43.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the Justice Department does decide to do something. 03:43.266 --> 03:47.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: What do you think the accumulated contribution or not will be when this committee 03:50.166 --> 03:54.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% wraps up, if it does get -- if -- because there is some speculation that Republicans 03:54.600 --> 03:56.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% will completely disband it. 03:56.666 --> 03:58.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JONATHAN CAPEHART: Oh, they're totally going to disband it, and they're going to shift 03:58.933 --> 04:01.000 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% their focus. 04:01.000 --> 04:05.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% If they continue anything related to January 6, it won't be what the Select Committee is 04:05.133 --> 04:07.166 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% doing now. 04:07.166 --> 04:11.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They will turn their attention to Speaker Pelosi, as has been telegraphed for months 04:13.600 --> 04:16.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% now, which is why I thought in the hearing yesterday it was really interesting the behind-the-scenes 04:16.233 --> 04:21.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% video that we saw of Speaker Pelosi and Leader Schumer pleading, all the phone calls that 04:23.700 --> 04:27.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% they were making behind the scenes to do something at the Capitol, in -- sort of contrasting 04:29.000 --> 04:32.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that with what the president of the United States was not doing. 04:32.033 --> 04:36.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: And -- but, David, and so, as you look at the sum total of all this, 04:36.666 --> 04:38.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I mean, that was a pretty dramatic thing. 04:38.966 --> 04:43.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% There they are on the phone begging the parts of government that can do something to do 04:45.666 --> 04:46.666 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% something. 04:46.666 --> 04:48.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% DAVID BROOKS: Yes. 04:48.700 --> 04:52.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I mean, I think the video that the committee has thrown before us is the highlight of what 04:52.566 --> 04:53.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% they have done. 04:53.566 --> 04:55.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% It brings you back. 04:55.566 --> 04:59.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And even this, I was sort of, A, impressed by their calm under pressure, Pelosi, Schumer. 05:00.366 --> 05:01.366 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% McConnell was in there. 05:01.366 --> 05:03.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Steny Hoyer was in there. 05:03.700 --> 05:06.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I was also a little depressed that they're just freelancing. 05:06.900 --> 05:08.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Like, they're calling -- let's call a governor. 05:08.566 --> 05:10.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Let's call the governor of Maryland. 05:10.066 --> 05:12.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Let's call the governor of Virginia. 05:12.200 --> 05:15.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It's like there's no plan for what to do in the case of this -- and this kind of emergency 05:15.966 --> 05:18.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% or any kind of emergency. 05:18.000 --> 05:21.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So they were -- there was not as a set of procedures they were following. 05:21.066 --> 05:22.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% They were just freelancing. 05:22.066 --> 05:24.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I thought they did impressively. 05:24.133 --> 05:27.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But, in the future, we should have, like, OK, this will happen, and this will happen, 05:27.333 --> 05:31.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and this will happen if there's not even an incursion like this, but some sort of crisis 05:31.100 --> 05:33.200 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% at the Capitol. 05:33.200 --> 05:36.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% JONATHAN CAPEHART: But the key thing here is, they were freelancing because the unimaginable 05:36.300 --> 05:38.333 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% happened. 05:38.333 --> 05:42.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The president of the United States was not stepping in and doing what is his constitutional 05:44.433 --> 05:47.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% duty, which is to protect or preserve the Constitution, and a branch of government was 05:47.233 --> 05:48.233 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% under attack. 05:48.233 --> 05:50.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So, yes, they were freelancing. 05:50.300 --> 05:54.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They're trying to figure out, what can -- where can we step in to save the situation? 05:54.733 --> 05:57.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: And they clearly didn't see it coming. 05:57.900 --> 05:59.100 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% JONATHAN CAPEHART: Yes. 05:59.100 --> 06:01.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: OK, today is October the 14th. 06:01.100 --> 06:02.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% David, I looked at the calendar. 06:02.900 --> 06:06.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We are about three-and-a-half weeks away from the midterm election. 06:06.933 --> 06:08.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% People are voting now. 06:08.033 --> 06:09.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% But that's the day. 06:09.566 --> 06:11.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Congress hangs in the balance. 06:11.066 --> 06:16.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I will say, I was in Wisconsin last weekend. 06:16.033 --> 06:20.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Republicans are very much pushing crime and public safety and: Democrats will take us 06:20.633 --> 06:22.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% down a dark road. 06:22.333 --> 06:26.900 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Democrats are pushing: Well, they're too far to the right and abortion. 06:28.766 --> 06:32.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% What does this campaign, this season look like to you right now? 06:32.466 --> 06:35.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Well, if you're a Democrat, the happy thing is, a lot of these races are 06:35.200 --> 06:37.266 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% close. 06:37.266 --> 06:39.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% In a lot of the states, like Wisconsin, Joe Biden has an approval rating like low 40s, 06:39.833 --> 06:41.866 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% even 39, 42. 06:41.866 --> 06:46.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% In a normal year, that would be disaster for a lot of these Democratic candidacies. 06:46.533 --> 06:47.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But they're -- it's not been a disaster. 06:47.766 --> 06:49.766 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% The polls are close. 06:49.766 --> 06:52.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So, if you're a Democrat, you're thinking, somehow, we're defying history a little here, 06:52.600 --> 06:54.666 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% if the polls are right. 06:54.666 --> 06:56.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% If you're a Republican, I think there are two things that would cheer you. 06:56.900 --> 07:01.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The first is, the Democrats had a swing in their direction about two, three months ago. 07:01.100 --> 07:05.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% It seems like, in the last month, the Republicans have had a bit of a swing in their direction. 07:05.266 --> 07:10.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, second, if you look at where the campaigns are spending their money and where they're 07:10.100 --> 07:13.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% pulling out because they have sort of given up, the Democrats are spending a lot of money 07:13.933 --> 07:18.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in places that they should not have to defend, districts where Biden won by seven, where 07:19.533 --> 07:21.066 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Biden won by 13. 07:21.066 --> 07:23.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And Republicans are pouring money into those districts. 07:23.666 --> 07:28.566 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And that suggests that both parties have these internal polls that suggests there's places 07:28.566 --> 07:33.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Republicans are threatening that would seemingly be lean or safe Democratic districts. 07:35.433 --> 07:38.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And that may be that there's a sign of some sort of Republican surge we're not seeing 07:38.166 --> 07:39.266 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% in the public polls. 07:39.266 --> 07:41.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: What do you see? 07:41.900 --> 07:46.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JONATHAN CAPEHART: Well, I see -- I agree with David that, in the summer, it looked 07:46.566 --> 07:48.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% like the wind was at Democrats' backs. 07:48.566 --> 07:52.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% They were almost euphoric about their political prospects. 07:52.833 --> 07:56.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But, as with everything in politics, the pendulum always swings back. 07:56.600 --> 07:58.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And this is where we are. 07:58.566 --> 08:02.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I -- what I foresee is what my colleague Jennifer Rubin said this morning, is that 08:05.000 --> 08:08.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% we could be looking at two waves, not a tsunami, but two waves, a red wave, where you have 08:10.733 --> 08:14.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% races that are determined by crime, inflation, fears of a recession, or you could have the 08:16.566 --> 08:20.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% blue wave, where the issue of abortion, threats to democracy reign supreme, 08:23.500 --> 08:28.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I think where Democrats are able to make the economic link between bodily autonomy, reproductive 08:30.900 --> 08:35.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% rights for women and economics, maybe they can eat into some of that advantage Republicans 08:38.200 --> 08:42.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% have on the economy and inflation and recession. 08:42.000 --> 08:46.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But, again, look, we have never been -- this is someplace where we have never been, where 08:46.100 --> 08:49.600 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% even the pollsters are saying, we don't know what's going to happen. 08:49.600 --> 08:53.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: But you're saying with two waves -- who benefits if it's two waves? 08:53.433 --> 08:54.633 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% We don't know. 08:54.633 --> 08:55.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JONATHAN CAPEHART: Well, it -- we don't know. 08:55.433 --> 08:57.433 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% That's... 08:57.433 --> 08:58.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: There could be a wave in each direction, is what you're saying. 08:58.366 --> 08:59.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JONATHAN CAPEHART: Right. 08:59.366 --> 09:00.933 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Right. 09:00.933 --> 09:01.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: And they crash against each other. 09:01.600 --> 09:02.366 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (CROSSTALK) 09:02.366 --> 09:03.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 09:03.566 --> 09:04.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: And we don't know. 09:04.833 --> 09:06.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% DAVID BROOKS: It's advanced physics. 09:06.300 --> 09:08.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I did see a poll of, what issue are you voting on most? 09:08.366 --> 09:12.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, in this poll, the number one issue that is motivating people to go to the polls is 09:12.033 --> 09:13.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% making sure the other team loses. 09:13.533 --> 09:17.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So, it's not even the economy, or it's not - - or abortion. 09:17.333 --> 09:19.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It's like, I just don't like those guys. 09:19.500 --> 09:21.500 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And so that's there. 09:21.500 --> 09:25.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I think that's why the two parties are so locked dead even, and not a lot has changed, 09:25.666 --> 09:28.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% even as the presidential approval goes up and down. 09:28.133 --> 09:32.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: So that means these two neighbors we interviewed near Madison, Wisconsin, Columbia 09:35.166 --> 09:37.466 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% County, Wisconsin, who are trying really hard - - and they are still friends, but they disagree 09:37.466 --> 09:41.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% completely on everything, including who to vote for, but they're still friends. 09:41.800 --> 09:43.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Good fences make good neighbors. 09:43.466 --> 09:45.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Good fences make good neighbors. 09:45.466 --> 09:47.500 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 09:47.500 --> 09:51.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: So, David, you had a column today about what's going on with -- in Los 09:51.333 --> 09:52.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Angeles with the City Council. 09:52.600 --> 09:54.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% But it was about more than that. 09:54.633 --> 09:57.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It was about the -- there have been -- now there have been resignations. 09:57.766 --> 10:00.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But, before that, it got really messy. 10:00.866 --> 10:05.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And you talked about how this could be the racial future of this country. 10:06.600 --> 10:07.400 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% What did you mean? 10:07.400 --> 10:08.600 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% DAVID BROOKS: Yes. 10:08.600 --> 10:09.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Well, managing diversity is hard. 10:09.933 --> 10:12.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Diversity is fabulous. 10:12.466 --> 10:15.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But, politically, managing diversity and staying together as a country, when we get increased 10:15.700 --> 10:19.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% diversity, when there's no majority group, which is where we're headed, that's a political 10:19.800 --> 10:21.766 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% challenge. 10:21.766 --> 10:26.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so what disturbed me about the comments by the Los Angeles City Council members was 10:26.166 --> 10:31.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% not only the raw racism, which was disturbing, but, listening to their taped conversation, 10:32.533 --> 10:36.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% was their assumption first that we're all on ethnic teams. 10:36.433 --> 10:40.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% There's like the Black team, the Latino team, the white team, the Armenian team, the Korean 10:40.233 --> 10:43.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% team, and that these teams are permanently at war. 10:43.333 --> 10:48.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And so there's always been ethnic politics, but, as some Los Angeles analyst said, there's 10:49.766 --> 10:54.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% always been negotiations, but this was "Game of Thrones." 10:54.100 --> 10:58.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so, if we enter a world where we have all this great diversity, but politics is 10:58.766 --> 11:03.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% really ginned up by politicians using ethnic and racial appeals to fight political battles, 11:05.833 --> 11:09.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% then you really get a very ugly atmosphere. 11:09.366 --> 11:11.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And it's already obviously happening to some degree. 11:11.400 --> 11:13.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% What is Donald Trump? 11:13.333 --> 11:17.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But it's just how hard it is to manage diversity going forward. 11:17.333 --> 11:19.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Where are you coming down on this? 11:19.933 --> 11:22.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JONATHAN CAPEHART: Well, I read your column, David. 11:22.300 --> 11:24.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I should have written down the headline. 11:24.766 --> 11:29.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But this idea that -- because there was something about, this is what happens when everything 11:30.533 --> 11:31.766 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% is viewed by race. 11:31.766 --> 11:32.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: There it is. 11:32.766 --> 11:33.766 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 11:33.766 --> 11:34.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JONATHAN CAPEHART: Right. 11:34.966 --> 11:37.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% This is what happens when race is everything. 11:37.166 --> 11:40.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I got your -- I got your argument. 11:40.233 --> 11:42.266 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% It's very utopian. 11:42.266 --> 11:47.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I am one of those people who wishes we could live in that place. 11:48.133 --> 11:49.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% But we can't, and we won't. 11:49.400 --> 11:52.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% The best we can do is strive to get there. 11:52.366 --> 11:57.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I listened to the recordings of the -- the recordings of the comments. 11:57.000 --> 12:01.966 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And what struck me was that they sounded like old-school politicians doing -- having a backroom 12:02.566 --> 12:04.533 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% conversation. 12:04.533 --> 12:08.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And when politicians get behind closed doors, the conversations can be pretty rough. 12:10.566 --> 12:14.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But when you're talking about the spoils of power, and, in this case, it was redistricting, 12:15.266 --> 12:16.766 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% it gets ugly. 12:16.766 --> 12:19.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And what these tapes do is bring us on the inside. 12:19.366 --> 12:23.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I don't think those conversations are new, those types of conversations are new. 12:23.000 --> 12:25.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% It's just that we're hearing them now with our own ears. 12:25.900 --> 12:28.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But we have to remember something. 12:28.966 --> 12:33.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And this is where I take issue with the headline, which some -- I write my own headlines. 12:33.166 --> 12:35.500 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I don't know if you do. 12:35.500 --> 12:40.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But the idea that Black people or people of color are the ones who are foisting race on 12:43.033 --> 12:48.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the country as something that needs to be dealt with is -- it's problematic, because 12:49.166 --> 12:52.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it ignores the history of this country. 12:52.033 --> 12:56.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I have here a picture that I took at the Legacy Museum in Montgomery, Alabama. 12:56.866 --> 13:01.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And in the old location, there was a huge wall with all of these horrific signs. 13:02.966 --> 13:05.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% One says "No Negroes Allowed After Sundown." 13:05.166 --> 13:08.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Another sign, "Whites Only Within City Limits After Dark." 13:08.733 --> 13:12.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Another one, "No N-words, Puerto Rican, Mexicans Allowed." 13:12.466 --> 13:16.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Another one, "We Want White Tenants in Our White Community." 13:16.833 --> 13:21.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It's not that Black and brown people are so focused on race because that's all they care 13:21.100 --> 13:23.200 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% about. 13:23.200 --> 13:27.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They focus -- they focus and are paying attention to race because they have to because of signs 13:28.566 --> 13:29.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% like that. 13:29.566 --> 13:30.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And that's just one example. 13:30.900 --> 13:32.900 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And one last thing. 13:32.900 --> 13:36.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We also have to remember that we are 57 years after the Civil Rights Act and the Voting 13:37.500 --> 13:39.500 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Rights Act. 13:39.500 --> 13:43.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% That means we are only 57 years of truly being a democracy, and that's within the living 13:44.033 --> 13:44.700 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% lifetimes of people. 13:44.700 --> 13:46.133 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (CROSSTALK) 13:46.133 --> 13:47.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I mean, I said exactly that. 13:47.566 --> 13:48.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I mean, I said, white supremacy created these categories. 13:48.500 --> 13:50.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Yes. 13:50.466 --> 13:52.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: And the question is, should - - are we content with the categories? 13:52.500 --> 13:54.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Are we going to militarize the categories? 13:54.200 --> 13:57.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: We may continue this conversation. 13:57.233 --> 13:59.133 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 13:59.133 --> 14:00.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: David Brooks, Jonathan Capehart, thank you both. 14:00.366 --> 14:01.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JONATHAN CAPEHART: Thanks, Judy.