1 00:00:01,933 --> 00:00:04,300 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: In addition to the protests over immigration, it was another wild day 2 00:00:04,300 --> 00:00:06,266 in Washington. 3 00:00:06,266 --> 00:00:10,466 Mississippi Senator Thad Cochran said he will resign on April 1 because of poor health. 4 00:00:12,433 --> 00:00:14,533 The 80-year-old Republican chairs the powerful Appropriations Committee. 5 00:00:14,533 --> 00:00:18,833 And a former Trump campaign aide announced he will defy a subpoena from the special counsel 6 00:00:18,833 --> 00:00:20,233 in the Russia probe. 7 00:00:20,233 --> 00:00:23,166 Sam Nunberg left the campaign in its early days. 8 00:00:23,166 --> 00:00:27,500 Today, he rejected any suggestion that the Trump team colluded with Russia. 9 00:00:27,500 --> 00:00:32,300 But he also said he thinks the special prosecutor may have evidence against the president. 10 00:00:32,300 --> 00:00:37,300 It's a perfect time for Politics Monday with Tamara Keith of NPR and Susan Page, Washington 11 00:00:38,533 --> 00:00:40,733 bureau chief for USA Today. 12 00:00:40,733 --> 00:00:42,000 Welcome to you both. 13 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,033 TAMARA KEITH, National Public Radio: Thank you. 14 00:00:44,033 --> 00:00:46,266 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: So we can all agree it really was a wild day, officially. 15 00:00:46,266 --> 00:00:48,166 But let's go back to DACA. 16 00:00:48,166 --> 00:00:53,166 Lisa set up, very nicely, Tam, I think, how we got to this point. 17 00:00:54,066 --> 00:00:56,000 Where do we go from here? 18 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,333 There is so much grassroots effort and enthusiasm to get this solved. 19 00:00:58,333 --> 00:01:02,466 And I would point out this was also -- there was some bipartisan agreement at one point 20 00:01:02,466 --> 00:01:04,366 that DACA should be addressed. 21 00:01:04,366 --> 00:01:06,300 How do we go from here? 22 00:01:06,300 --> 00:01:09,966 TAMARA KEITH: So, President Trump today tweeted, hey, let's make a deal. 23 00:01:09,966 --> 00:01:14,000 But the White House is also saying that the president has laid out his four principles, 24 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,533 the things he wants. 25 00:01:16,533 --> 00:01:20,400 What happened is that the president had met with bipartisan members of Congress. 26 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,733 He said send me with whatever you can come up with, I will sign it. 27 00:01:23,733 --> 00:01:28,733 Then, next thing you know, he is saying, actually, I have these four principles, I need these 28 00:01:30,166 --> 00:01:32,266 four things, and without these four things, I won't do it. 29 00:01:32,266 --> 00:01:37,066 The Senate voted on the president's principles, and of all the things the Senate voted on 30 00:01:38,633 --> 00:01:42,633 a few weeks ago related to immigration, that got the least support. 31 00:01:42,633 --> 00:01:45,366 It had something like 39 yes votes. 32 00:01:45,366 --> 00:01:49,433 It had a majority who opposed it, and that included Republicans. 33 00:01:49,433 --> 00:01:51,766 So it's not clear where it goes from here. 34 00:01:51,766 --> 00:01:56,766 And without that really firm, pressing deadline, Congress just doesn't move quickly. 35 00:01:58,766 --> 00:02:02,333 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Susan, you were saying before that, when it comes to immigration, we have 36 00:02:02,333 --> 00:02:03,833 seen this movie before. 37 00:02:03,833 --> 00:02:05,800 SUSAN PAGE, Washington Bureau Chief, USA Today: That's right. 38 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,166 We saw President George W. Bush pursue an immigration package, and then President Obama 39 00:02:09,166 --> 00:02:12,200 did, and then President Trump said he wanted to pursue one. 40 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,333 But the fact is, when the Senate was moving toward a bipartisan deal, the president undercut 41 00:02:16,333 --> 00:02:21,333 that movement by tying new limits on legal immigration to the effort to protect the so-called 42 00:02:22,433 --> 00:02:24,400 dreamers. 43 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,066 The fact is there is a national consensus that the dreamers should be allowed to stay 44 00:02:27,066 --> 00:02:28,533 legally in this country. 45 00:02:28,533 --> 00:02:31,133 There's no political consensus in Washington. 46 00:02:31,133 --> 00:02:33,533 The country's made a judgment on this. 47 00:02:33,533 --> 00:02:35,466 In that way, it's like a guns debate. 48 00:02:35,466 --> 00:02:39,900 You take a poll, Americans agree on this by a pretty sizable number. 49 00:02:39,900 --> 00:02:41,933 It's just that Washington can't seem to make a deal. 50 00:02:41,933 --> 00:02:45,266 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Well, take up this point, Tam, that Susan mentions. 51 00:02:45,266 --> 00:02:48,933 On the issue of guns, we saw the president last week following the Parkland shootings 52 00:02:48,933 --> 00:02:53,433 say -- he brought a bunch of bipartisan group of lawmakers together, indicated that he wanted 53 00:02:53,433 --> 00:02:58,433 to have a big, omnibus, comprehensive gun control piece of legislation, harden schools. 54 00:03:00,466 --> 00:03:04,100 And then he meets with the NRA and it seems like now in the Senate and Congress that nothing 55 00:03:04,100 --> 00:03:05,100 is going to happen. 56 00:03:05,100 --> 00:03:07,700 What happened to that momentum? 57 00:03:07,700 --> 00:03:10,866 TAMARA KEITH: I think that what we have learned is that when President Trump has a big bipartisan 58 00:03:10,866 --> 00:03:15,766 meeting of members of Congress that's televised, it's like throwing spaghetti against a wall 59 00:03:15,766 --> 00:03:20,600 and whatever the president says isn't necessarily what the president believes or, more to the 60 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,900 point, what the president is going to push for. 61 00:03:22,900 --> 00:03:27,800 And the president has shown with both of those - - in both those cases that he's not actually 62 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:32,400 willing to expend political capital to make the deal. 63 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,933 SUSAN PAGE: It's always safe to vote against action, especially when it comes to limits 64 00:03:35,933 --> 00:03:38,000 on guns. 65 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,933 The one thing that might shake up this paralysis are the marches that students are leading 66 00:03:42,533 --> 00:03:44,600 on March 24. 67 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,600 And the question we have had is, is this a moment that terrifies politicians enough that 68 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,100 they actually pass something that Americans support? 69 00:03:52,100 --> 00:03:56,500 I mean, support for things like universal background checks or limits on assault weapons, 70 00:03:56,500 --> 00:03:59,233 they are all but universal in this country. 71 00:03:59,233 --> 00:04:03,166 A majority by big margins of big gun owners support them. 72 00:04:03,166 --> 00:04:08,166 So I wonder if these very articulate students with their heartbreaking stories about what 73 00:04:09,533 --> 00:04:11,833 happened at their schools might move this debate at last. 74 00:04:11,833 --> 00:04:15,100 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: We will obviously be watching how that one goes. 75 00:04:15,100 --> 00:04:20,100 Tam, we also saw today a cleavage within the GOP over President Trump's proposed tariffs 76 00:04:21,833 --> 00:04:23,933 on steel and aluminum. 77 00:04:23,933 --> 00:04:27,333 He came out very forcefully and has been for several days now tweeting very strongly why 78 00:04:27,333 --> 00:04:29,433 he thinks that this is important to do. 79 00:04:29,433 --> 00:04:33,600 But within his own GOP all the way up to Paul Ryan saying, no, trade wars are bad ideas. 80 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:34,766 They don't get won. 81 00:04:34,766 --> 00:04:35,766 Don't do this. 82 00:04:35,766 --> 00:04:37,800 How do they resolve that? 83 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,400 TAMARA KEITH: President Trump has found a way to drive a wedge within his own party, 84 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,166 which is a relatively impressive thing to do. 85 00:04:44,166 --> 00:04:48,533 All along, he's been sort of governing -- he talks like a populist and he has been governing 86 00:04:48,533 --> 00:04:51,266 like sort of an establishment Republican. 87 00:04:51,266 --> 00:04:56,266 Here's a case where he has been literally saying the same things about trade and America 88 00:04:58,166 --> 00:05:02,833 getting a bad deal for, like, 30 years, that you know, guns, immigration, taxes. 89 00:05:06,566 --> 00:05:11,166 There's nothing that he believes more fundamentally in his core that he has been more consistent 90 00:05:11,166 --> 00:05:13,200 on than this trade issue. 91 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,533 And now, all of a sudden, he's being told by members of his own party and members of 92 00:05:16,533 --> 00:05:21,233 his own administration, no, this is not a great idea, you can't do this. 93 00:05:21,233 --> 00:05:24,100 The president clearly doesn't want to hear that. 94 00:05:24,100 --> 00:05:28,466 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Susan, we have a couple of these little that are elections coming 95 00:05:28,466 --> 00:05:30,666 up. 96 00:05:30,666 --> 00:05:33,900 We have got Texas, we have got Illinois, we have got Pennsylvania, all possibly different 97 00:05:33,900 --> 00:05:37,666 little barometers of how the president is doing, how much his message is resonating 98 00:05:37,666 --> 00:05:41,033 or is being used to support Democrats. 99 00:05:41,033 --> 00:05:43,966 Democrats think they are riding an enormous blue wave. 100 00:05:43,966 --> 00:05:46,066 What does your reporting tell you? 101 00:05:46,066 --> 00:05:49,000 SUSAN PAGE: There are red flags for Republicans everywhere, and I don't mean because it looks 102 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:50,566 so good for the Republican Party. 103 00:05:50,566 --> 00:05:52,700 I mean signs of trouble. 104 00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:55,800 You look at this Pennsylvania special House election, which is next week, it's a district 105 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,733 that President Trump carried by 19 percentage points. 106 00:05:58,733 --> 00:06:01,200 It is really tied up now. 107 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,333 It's entirely possible that the Democrat will win. 108 00:06:03,333 --> 00:06:05,966 You look at Texas, which has its primary tomorrow. 109 00:06:05,966 --> 00:06:08,433 And they have concluded early voting. 110 00:06:08,433 --> 00:06:12,466 If you look at the early voting, the early voting by Republicans is up by 11 percent. 111 00:06:12,466 --> 00:06:15,733 Early voting by Democrats is up 24 percent. 112 00:06:15,733 --> 00:06:20,733 And that is a sign of energy and enthusiasm among Democrats, even in a state like Texas, 113 00:06:22,666 --> 00:06:24,800 which has not elected a Democrat statewide in almost a quarter of a century. 114 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,033 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Lastly, quickly to you, do you think there is a blue wave coming? 115 00:06:27,033 --> 00:06:32,033 TAMARA KEITH: Well, just another sign of that enthusiasm, Democrats in Texas have fielded 116 00:06:33,466 --> 00:06:35,233 candidates in every single congressional district. 117 00:06:35,233 --> 00:06:36,900 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: In Texas. 118 00:06:36,900 --> 00:06:40,366 TAMARA KEITH: This is the first time that has happened in 25 years. 119 00:06:40,366 --> 00:06:44,233 Democrats -- and this is happening not just in Texas, but all the over the country, that 120 00:06:44,233 --> 00:06:49,233 in districts where Democrats typically haven't even tried to play, they are now playing. 121 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,133 So if there is a wave, and it's more like a tsunami, all of a sudden, we're going to 122 00:06:53,133 --> 00:06:55,200 be learning about Democrats we didn't even know existed. 123 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,766 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Tamara Keith, Susan Page, thank you both very much. 124 00:06:57,766 --> 00:06:57,900 TAMARA KEITH: Thank you.