WEBVTT 00:01.433 --> 00:03.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The collapse of the Democrats climate agenda, 00:03.533 --> 00:07.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the connection between Trump and right-wing extremism, and the debate over abortion 00:07.100 --> 00:12.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% after the fall of Roe, it has all contributed to another very busy week here in Washington. 00:14.066 --> 00:16.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And that brings us to the analysis of Brooks and Capehart. That's New York Times columnist 00:16.933 --> 00:21.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart, associate editor for The Washington Post. 00:21.333 --> 00:23.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Gentlemen, good evening. Thank you both for being here. 00:23.600 --> 00:25.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Good to be here. 00:25.666 --> 00:29.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Jonathan, Joe Manchin today said, I'm done with all of this back and forth, 00:30.866 --> 00:34.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and offer you a ticket to the dance, and then never show up. 00:34.666 --> 00:39.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% The climate agenda that the president had hoped would in some way get across the finish line 00:41.133 --> 00:45.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% has fallen apart. Is it your sense that the U.S. is just 00:45.133 --> 00:47.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% not going to act on climate change for a couple of years? 00:47.700 --> 00:50.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JONATHAN CAPEHART: The short answer is yes. 00:52.333 --> 00:55.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% As long as there's a 50/50 split in the Senate, and Joe Manchin is the deciding vote for 00:58.366 --> 01:03.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% everything, the answer to that question is yes. There is late-breaking news that the president has 01:05.033 --> 01:08.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% said -- has taken the deal, said, look, we will do the narrow thing. 01:08.066 --> 01:11.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Get it to my desk before you go on August recess. The American people can't wait. 01:11.666 --> 01:14.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So climate is going to have to wait. 01:14.300 --> 01:18.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But, in the long run, if climate -- if we're going to do anything on climate, anything on criminal 01:18.933 --> 01:23.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% justice reform, anything on voting rights, anything to codify Roe, any of the other things 01:26.433 --> 01:29.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that a majority -- assault weapons ban, something on gun safety, things that the American people 01:31.666 --> 01:34.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% want, the only way those are going to happen is if the Democrats get two more seats in the Senate. 01:36.466 --> 01:39.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And that's why the president keeps hammering away: Give me two more seats. It's not just 01:39.600 --> 01:44.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to codify Roe. It's to get his agenda through in the last half of his term. 01:44.333 --> 01:49.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I mean, David, this -- as Jonathan is saying, it is a 50/50 Senate. And 01:51.300 --> 01:54.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Joe Manchin says inflation is really terrible. I'm not going to do anything about it. 01:54.333 --> 01:59.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And there even were some progressive Democrats this week saying, inflation really is terrible, 01:59.233 --> 02:02.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and in a way making Manchin's case for him. 02:03.566 --> 02:06.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But still, to this point, it does mean that the U.S., 02:06.300 --> 02:11.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% that one of the major actors on the climate front is stepping back. 02:11.266 --> 02:12.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: So I'm going to do something that's never been done 02:12.866 --> 02:15.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in a major American TV studio, which is praise Joe Manchin. 02:18.233 --> 02:20.233 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 02:20.233 --> 02:21.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: I went back and looked at some of the news stories from a year ago, 02:21.733 --> 02:23.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and Joe Manchin was warning about inflation back then. 02:23.666 --> 02:25.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And there were all these stories: Economists dismiss... 02:25.400 --> 02:26.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Alone in the wilderness. 02:26.466 --> 02:28.400 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (CROSSTALK) 02:28.400 --> 02:29.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Yes, economists dismiss Manchin inflation fears. Well, 02:29.633 --> 02:30.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% he turned out to be 100 percent right. 02:32.533 --> 02:34.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, frankly, a lot of us, including me, but all the other Democrats, turned out to be 02:34.666 --> 02:39.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% 100 percent wrong. And you could argue that Joe Manchin stopping the big Build Back Better bill, 02:41.500 --> 02:43.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% which was trillions of dollars, if we had poured that additional trillions of dollars 02:43.666 --> 02:47.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% into the economy, a lot of it unfunded, then inflation would be truly terrible. 02:47.933 --> 02:52.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so you could argue Joe Manchin saved the country and the Democratic Party a very bad 02:52.666 --> 02:57.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% policy disaster. And so I think he deserves some credit for being right about that and for being 02:59.700 --> 03:02.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% super attuned to the inflation fears, which are the number one issue in the country right now. 03:02.133 --> 03:06.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The one part I will disagree with him is just because there's inflation 03:06.066 --> 03:08.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% doesn't mean you can't have government policy, right? 03:08.300 --> 03:10.866 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 03:10.866 --> 03:13.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: And so, if you pay for -- if you take some money out of the economy through taxes, 03:13.200 --> 03:18.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and then pay for it for climate change legislation, it's not necessarily inflationary. 03:20.100 --> 03:23.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But for -- some of the people who are now bashing him should be thanking him for 03:23.333 --> 03:26.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% some of the things he did earlier to warn us about this and to forestall worse inflation. 03:26.933 --> 03:30.533 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Only on the "NewsHour" are we getting that. Great. 03:30.533 --> 03:32.633 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 03:32.633 --> 03:35.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Jonathan, the January 6 hearing that we saw this week again made 03:38.066 --> 03:42.100 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% a fairly compelling case trying to tie President Trump's rhetoric towards those people who stormed 03:44.133 --> 03:47.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the Capitol and engaged in that horrendous hand-to-hand combat with police officers. 03:49.466 --> 03:52.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Do you think that they have made a good case that Trump's language, 03:52.800 --> 03:56.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Trump's rhetoric stirred that horrible day? 03:57.733 --> 03:59.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JONATHAN CAPEHART: Yes. Yes, they did. 03:59.866 --> 04:04.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Look, we have to remember that the January 6 Select Committee is a court, but it's playing 04:06.266 --> 04:09.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to the court of public opinion. And between the documents and the tweets and everything that 04:11.900 --> 04:16.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they showed to make their case, plus the two witnesses there who said -- one who said what 04:18.300 --> 04:21.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the president said brought me to Washington, and then you had a former spokesperson for -- and I 04:23.866 --> 04:27.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% always get -- it's either the Oath Keepers or the Proud Boys -- but who said, yes, we were there. 04:30.300 --> 04:32.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: We heard the call. 04:32.366 --> 04:35.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JONATHAN CAPEHART: We heard the call, and we were part of operationalizing that. 04:35.100 --> 04:39.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So, yes, I think the committee has made the connection. And I don't think it's a mystery to 04:39.500 --> 04:44.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the American people. The issue becomes, when you start talking about, is there criminal 04:46.700 --> 04:51.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% liability here, should the Justice -- will the Justice Department make that -- make that leap. 04:53.800 --> 04:56.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And when you're talking about the court of law, the level of evidentiary proof that you have to 05:00.200 --> 05:05.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% have is incredibly high, necessarily. That's getting way down the road. But I do think, 05:07.566 --> 05:11.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% after seven, eight hearings, the Select Committee has done an excellent job of telling the American 05:13.166 --> 05:16.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% people and showing the American people what was done on January 6, how horrible it was. 05:19.300 --> 05:23.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And between the hearing on Tuesday and the hearing that's coming up next Thursday, we're going to see 05:25.233 --> 05:29.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% with frightening clarity how the president of the United States just allowed it to happen. 05:31.300 --> 05:34.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: What do you think about that? Do you think that they made that case? 05:34.466 --> 05:37.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Yes, and it has been unexpected for me. But I think the... 05:37.733 --> 05:39.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Unexpected why? 05:39.766 --> 05:42.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: I didn't think -- well, I didn't think they had organized it. I didn't think 05:42.300 --> 05:46.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Trump had organized January 6. I thought it was just like him being his shambolic self. 05:46.633 --> 05:51.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But there was clearly a lot more planning. We learned even from the Overstock CEO that they 05:52.800 --> 05:54.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% had arranged that he was spontaneously going to 05:54.333 --> 05:56.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% call for them to go to the -- but that was all prearranged. 05:58.566 --> 06:01.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And then, as Jonathan said, the fact that the -- a lot of the guys up there were so 06:01.266 --> 06:05.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% carefully paying attention to Trump, so carefully saying, we're going to do what he tells us to do, 06:05.333 --> 06:10.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and so fully expected that he would meet them up at the Capitol, that's all a progression. 06:10.300 --> 06:13.666 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And then what we heard last -- or two weeks ago about the -- him 06:13.666 --> 06:17.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% wanting to take out the magnetometers, so these armed guys could have access, 06:17.100 --> 06:20.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that's all a very strong evidentiary chain. 06:20.000 --> 06:25.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And so, to me, the accumulation is quite powerful. It's interesting how it's affected Trump. I mean, 06:26.900 --> 06:30.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the word now is that he's moving up when he will announce his campaign for president. 06:30.866 --> 06:33.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think he's doing that to make the indictment harder. He's doing that to... 06:33.900 --> 06:37.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: You're presenting that as a done deal. You think he's definitely going to run? 06:37.100 --> 06:39.666 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% DAVID BROOKS: He seems to have told people that he's going to run. 06:41.666 --> 06:44.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so I -- we will see when we -- he walks down the elevator -- escalator, whatever it is. 06:44.800 --> 06:47.166 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 06:47.166 --> 06:49.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: But I do think he's going to run. I think he's going to announce pretty soon, in part 06:49.733 --> 06:54.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to make the indictment harder, in part to make other challengers more hesitant about getting in. 06:56.366 --> 06:58.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% He's going to fail at that. The New York Times/Siena poll struck me as 06:58.300 --> 07:03.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% very important this week that roughly half of Republicans want him to pass and 07:04.466 --> 07:05.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% they want to go for another guy. That's just a huge number. 07:05.700 --> 07:07.200 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Right. 07:07.200 --> 07:08.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: And that cannot be unrelated to these hearings. 07:08.800 --> 07:13.033 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I want to switch, Jonathan, to this issue of the 07:13.033 --> 07:16.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% continued fallout of the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade. 07:19.466 --> 07:22.466 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And Democrats seem to believe that this could be one of the things that might give them at least 07:22.466 --> 07:27.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% some trace of a fighting chance in the midterms. And we saw we this week this sort of horrendous 07:29.466 --> 07:33.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% case of a young 10-year-old girl who had been raped. She got pregnant. She was -- then had to 07:35.766 --> 07:40.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% leave her state and go to another state where abortion would still be allowed. 07:42.200 --> 07:45.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And GOP officials tried to make hay of it. They doubted that that story really existed. The 07:47.666 --> 07:50.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% local A.G. said, we're going to go after the doctor that performed this. 07:51.933 --> 07:55.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Do you think that -- that issue and the extremity of the way that this 07:55.600 --> 07:58.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is being handled will actually benefit Democrats? 07:58.133 --> 08:00.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JONATHAN CAPEHART: It should. 08:02.166 --> 08:06.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I mean, we're -- the idea that we're talking about violence against a child, 08:07.900 --> 08:12.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% and then being forced by the state to give birth to this child, 08:15.100 --> 08:19.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% going to another state so she can terminate that pregnancy, and then being 08:21.633 --> 08:25.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% persecuted and prosecuted by the state for doing that, I mean, this is -- William, 08:27.633 --> 08:31.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% during the Trump years, I started watching "The Handmaid's Tale," because I thought I need my 08:31.333 --> 08:36.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% imagination to be open to see just how bad things could get in a fictional -- fictional setting. 08:39.500 --> 08:44.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I had to stop watching when real life under the Trump administration started to mirror 08:46.400 --> 08:49.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% what was happening in "Handmaid's Tale," and I was -- I was a few seasons behind. 08:51.600 --> 08:55.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% We are in "Handmaid's Tale" territory here. We are turning into Gilead. And if there are people 08:58.800 --> 09:03.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% out there who are upset by the Supreme Court decision, by what Republican legislators around 09:05.866 --> 09:09.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% the country in states and localities are doing to further restrictions and bans on abortion, 09:13.433 --> 09:18.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I don't know what else could push people to the polls more than not just being stripped of a 09:20.700 --> 09:25.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% constitutional right, but having your right to -- right to freedom, right to privacy, 09:27.733 --> 09:32.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right to liberty not just taken away, but local officials doing everything they can to ensure 09:36.066 --> 09:39.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that you don't have autonomy over your own body. 09:39.100 --> 09:42.000 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% If that doesn't get people out to the polls, I don't know what will. 09:42.000 --> 09:46.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I mean, David, this was an incredibly extreme case, in some ways crystallized 09:48.533 --> 09:51.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the sharpness and the horribleness of this division in this country. 09:51.100 --> 09:54.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Do you think it will redound to the Democrats' benefit? 09:54.466 --> 09:57.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% DAVID BROOKS: A little, but, frankly, not much. 09:57.100 --> 10:02.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Now, abortion rights defenders, they should pursue their cause with the passion that they're bringing 10:02.066 --> 10:07.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to it. And so I don't want -- nothing I say should dissuade anybody from pursuing that cause. 10:09.600 --> 10:12.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But there's just a giant gap between what a lot of Democrats want to talk about and what the whole 10:14.966 --> 10:17.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% rest of the country wants to talk about. And if you ask people, what's the most important issues, 10:17.066 --> 10:20.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% progressives want to talk about abortion and guns. The entire rest of the country, 10:20.700 --> 10:25.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% independents, conservatives, unaffiliated people, they want talk about the economy. 10:25.266 --> 10:30.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And, for them, the economy is way up here. Jobs are number one. Inflation is number two. And so 10:32.200 --> 10:35.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% why is Joe Biden at 33 percent approval in the latest Times poll? It's the economy. 10:35.300 --> 10:40.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Why in the same poll do half of Hispanics support the Republicans now? The economy. 10:44.166 --> 10:45.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% These are -- I mean, I think... 10:45.833 --> 10:47.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: These are earthquake-type numbers for Democrats. 10:47.500 --> 10:50.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I think that's probably a little outlier. 10:50.066 --> 10:52.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But we have had a whole series of polls showing a lot of Hispanic movement moving over to the 10:54.600 --> 10:56.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Republican Party and turning into really a multiracial, working-class party. 10:58.333 --> 11:01.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so if people -- they should pursue their passions, and they should pursue these issues. 11:03.300 --> 11:07.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But if Democrats, if they're not talking about economic policy every day, then they're just 11:09.566 --> 11:12.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% not talking about the policy that is clearly ranking number one with a vast majority of voters. 11:13.433 --> 11:14.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JONATHAN CAPEHART: And yet, William... 11:14.633 --> 11:16.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Thirty seconds left. Sorry. 11:16.766 --> 11:18.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JONATHAN CAPEHART: And yet, when you look at the generic ballot in these same polls, 11:18.700 --> 11:20.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it's evenly split when people are asked, 11:20.700 --> 11:23.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% who do you want to have control of Congress, Democrats or Republicans? 11:24.800 --> 11:28.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Inflation is big. The economy is big. And yet the generic ballot 11:28.533 --> 11:32.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is still evenly split. So, people have a problem with the president, 11:32.466 --> 11:36.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% think things are going in the wrong direction, but they don't trust Republicans to run the country. 11:36.300 --> 11:39.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I mean, this is why we're seeing, of course, the president in Saudi Arabia, 11:39.733 --> 11:44.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% trying to do everything he can across the pond to get the gas prices down. 11:46.133 --> 11:50.033 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% David Brooks, Jonathan Capehart, great to see you both. Thank you. 11:55.866 --> 11:59.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JONATHAN CAPEHART: Thanks, William. 11:59.766 --> 12:02.066 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% DAVID BROOKS: Thank you.