1 00:00:01,500 --> 00:00:03,766 JOHN YANG: Good evening. I'm John Yang. In the streets of Lima, 2 00:00:03,766 --> 00:00:07,966 Peru, demonstrators are vowing to keep demanding the president's resignation, 3 00:00:07,966 --> 00:00:12,966 despite a strong police response and a mounting death toll. At least 55 people 4 00:00:14,900 --> 00:00:18,500 are dead and 700 are injured. The worst political violence the country has seen in 5 00:00:20,500 --> 00:00:23,900 more than two decades began last month in rural regions and has now engulfed the capital city. 6 00:00:26,433 --> 00:00:30,233 Overnight in Lima, more violent clashes between protesters and police. Demonstrators, some waving 7 00:00:35,300 --> 00:00:40,266 the Peruvian flag, others pushing and shoving with police, faced a wall of riot shields. Tear gas and 8 00:00:42,366 --> 00:00:47,233 smoke from fires clouded the streets. Dozens of people were injured. The protesters, many from 9 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,833 Peru's farthest reaches, had arrived in Lima this week by bus and by foot, defying the government's 10 00:00:55,833 --> 00:01:00,466 declaration of a state of emergency to demand the resignation of President Dina Boluarte. 11 00:01:02,533 --> 00:01:06,133 JOSE DE LA ROSA (through translator): We want the usurper Dina Boluarte to step down and call 12 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,933 for new elections. Protests will continue. The south of the country is riotous at the moment. 13 00:01:13,366 --> 00:01:17,233 JOHN YANG: The protests erupted across the country last month 14 00:01:19,233 --> 00:01:22,200 after former President Pedro Castillo was removed from office and arrested. 15 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:27,200 Threatened with impeachment on corruption charges, Castillo had tried to dissolve Congress and 16 00:01:29,033 --> 00:01:32,600 install an emergency government. Boluarte, who was Vice President, became President. 17 00:01:34,466 --> 00:01:37,800 NO NAME GIVEN (through translator): We are headed to Lima to fight. We are here 18 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,033 for the wounded, for the many deaths caused by this de facto government. 19 00:01:41,033 --> 00:01:46,000 JOHN YANG: Castillo was Peru's first leader from the rural Andes region. 20 00:01:48,100 --> 00:01:52,933 Campaigning on the slogan no more poor people in our rich country. He promised 21 00:01:54,900 --> 00:01:58,433 to address long standing issues of poverty and inequality. His ousters angered his rural 22 00:02:00,366 --> 00:02:04,566 and indigenous supporters, underscoring their alienation from leaders in Lima. 23 00:02:07,100 --> 00:02:09,100 YORBIN HERRERA (through translator): We have come to defend our country, considering that we are 24 00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:13,233 under a dictatorship, a militarist government which has stained our country with blood. 25 00:02:13,233 --> 00:02:17,633 JOHN YANG: Protesters want immediate new elections to pick a new Congress, 26 00:02:17,633 --> 00:02:19,866 and they want a new constitution. 27 00:02:19,866 --> 00:02:24,100 ALVELIO SANCHEZ (through translator): What we demand is the resignation of 28 00:02:24,100 --> 00:02:29,100 President Dina Boluarte. Also, we want the closure of Congress and new elections for 2023. 29 00:02:30,533 --> 00:02:34,600 JOHN YANG: So far, President Boluarte has been defiant. 30 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:39,600 DINA BOLUARTE, President of Peru (through translator): That was not a peaceful protest. The 31 00:02:42,166 --> 00:02:45,433 violent acts that occurred in December and January will not go unpunished. I will not get tired of 32 00:02:47,966 --> 00:02:52,200 inviting those who are protesting, those who have moved from the provinces toward the capital for 33 00:02:54,300 --> 00:02:57,600 dialogue. I will not get tired of telling them, let's work on the vision this country needs. 34 00:02:59,100 --> 00:03:01,833 JOHN YANG: Yesterday, before the latest violence in Lima, 35 00:03:01,833 --> 00:03:06,766 I spoke with Julie Turkewitz, the Andes Bureau Chief for The New York Times. I 36 00:03:06,766 --> 00:03:10,200 asked her what she saw on a recent reporting trip to southern Peru. 37 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:14,133 JULIE TURKEWITZ, Bogota Colombia: In the last month, I've been to two different 38 00:03:14,133 --> 00:03:19,133 parts of rural Peru. The difference between the situation in Lima and the situation 39 00:03:21,133 --> 00:03:25,033 outside of Lima is pretty stark. The protests were happening outside of the capital. You saw 40 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,033 a lot of roadblocks. You saw a lot of parts of the country that were really paralyzed 41 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,766 and a lot of anger that is happening outside of the city. And that anger is extremely present, for 42 00:03:37,900 --> 00:03:41,533 example, in Juliaca, in Cusco, in Ayacucho, and you really didn't see it on the streets in Lima. 43 00:03:43,833 --> 00:03:48,833 JOHN YANG: What does that tell us that this difference between the scene in Lima and the 44 00:03:50,766 --> 00:03:52,633 scene on the countryside, what does that tell us about what's going on? 45 00:03:52,633 --> 00:03:57,400 JULIE TURKEWITZ: These protests, I think, really demonstrate a rural-urban divide 46 00:03:58,900 --> 00:04:02,100 in Peru that has existed really for generations and generations, 47 00:04:02,100 --> 00:04:07,100 where a lot of people in rural parts of the country feel that the government, 48 00:04:09,100 --> 00:04:12,800 that the country's democracy, is really only functioning for a select group of people. 49 00:04:15,833 --> 00:04:20,833 And so, what you see in a lot of rural parts of the country is that people feel 50 00:04:22,766 --> 00:04:26,333 that security hasn't come to them, that economic success hasn't come to them, 51 00:04:28,266 --> 00:04:31,833 that opportunities for good education hasn't come to them. That divide, 52 00:04:31,833 --> 00:04:36,833 in many ways, has been exacerbated by the pandemic, which hit the country very hard, 53 00:04:39,333 --> 00:04:43,266 by a drought that has also hit the country very hard, by inflation, which has caused prices to 54 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,900 rise really fast in the country. And you know, people are frustrated by their current conditions, 55 00:04:51,900 --> 00:04:56,233 poverty, inequality. But more than that, people are frustrated by a democracy that they don't 56 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,166 believe is working for them, that they don't believe serves them in the way that it should. 57 00:05:03,566 --> 00:05:05,600 JOHN YANG: What is it that the protesters want? 58 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,833 JULIE TURKEWITZ: You know, these protests began as this anger over the arrest and the 59 00:05:12,333 --> 00:05:17,100 removal of former President Castillo. And so, at first, people were asking for his restitution, 60 00:05:17,100 --> 00:05:22,100 and they were asking for, if that didn't happen, new elections as quickly as possible. The sort 61 00:05:24,033 --> 00:05:28,700 of demands have grown from there, and people are asking for a new constitution. You know, 62 00:05:30,733 --> 00:05:35,700 and when were in Juliaca, we saw in rural Peru, we saw signs that said calling for 63 00:05:37,700 --> 00:05:41,133 like (foreign language) like a new homeland. And the frustration has reached such a level 64 00:05:41,133 --> 00:05:46,133 that people are calling for a whole new system. What that new system is not clear. 65 00:05:48,266 --> 00:05:51,900 JOHN YANG: Is this in any way say anything or tell 66 00:05:51,900 --> 00:05:55,600 us anything about democracies across South America, across Latin America? 67 00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:00,600 JULIE TURKEWITZ: What we have seen in Latin America in the last 15 to 20 years is definitely 68 00:06:02,933 --> 00:06:07,933 a decline in trust individual democracies and a decline in satisfaction with democracies. 69 00:06:10,333 --> 00:06:15,300 And the sort of level of dissatisfaction and the level of distrust is particularly acute in Peru. 70 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,133 JOHN YANG: Peru certainly is no stranger to political turmoil, is it? 71 00:06:21,133 --> 00:06:26,133 JULIE TURKEWITZ: It's a country that has seen six presidents in the last five years, 72 00:06:28,066 --> 00:06:32,233 and I think what that has really led to is -- or contributed to is a real distrust in how 73 00:06:36,333 --> 00:06:41,333 the country's democracy functions. There is a, you know, a study that has been really critical 74 00:06:45,100 --> 00:06:50,100 for us in understanding what's happening in the country that shows that just 21% of Peruvians are 75 00:06:52,833 --> 00:06:57,833 satisfied with their democracy. 88% believe that at least 50% of their politicians are corrupt. 76 00:07:00,666 --> 00:07:02,800 Kind of gives you an idea of how people feel about the government. 77 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:07,533 JOHN YANG: There have been allegations of human rights abuses in these protests? 78 00:07:07,533 --> 00:07:12,533 JULIE TURKEWITZ: There are many human rights groups who have accused the police of acting 79 00:07:14,733 --> 00:07:18,633 disproportionately against protesters who, in some cases, have been violent. I mean, 80 00:07:18,633 --> 00:07:23,400 they've vandalized, they've burned buildings, but, you know, the police and the military, 81 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:28,400 of course, have guns, and a lot of these people have died from bullet woods. 82 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,133 JOHN YANG: Is there any resolution in sight? 83 00:07:32,133 --> 00:07:35,100 JULIE TURKEWITZ: One of the main sort of asks and 84 00:07:35,100 --> 00:07:39,900 demands of the protesters is that the new president resigns. And she, 85 00:07:41,766 --> 00:07:45,433 you know, she was initially an ally of Pedro Castillo, but she has really 86 00:07:47,500 --> 00:07:51,300 dug in her heels and she is not giving any signs of -- any signs that she will sort of acquiesce 87 00:07:54,033 --> 00:07:59,033 to protesters demands. And if that doesn't happen, I think this is going to keep going. 88 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,333 JOHN YANG: Julie Turkewitz of The New York Times, thank you very much. 89 00:08:02,333 --> 00:08:03,400 JULIE TURKEWITZ: Thank you.