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JUDY WOODRUFF: And that 
brings us to Politics Monday.

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I'm back with our regular duo, 
Amy Walter of The Cook Political 
Report and host of "Politics

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With Amy Walter" on WNYC Radio, 
and Tamara Keith of NPR, and 
co-host of "NPR Politics."

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Hello, duo.

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AMY WALTER, The Cook 
Political Report: Hi.

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TAMARA KEITH, National 
Public Radio: Hello.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: How 
do you like that?

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AMY WALTER: I like it a lot.

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(LAUGHTER)

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JUDY WOODRUFF: So, let's 
talk about -- interesting 
what we heard, Tam, from 
Pete Buttigieg, talking

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openly for the first time that 
we have seen in this season 
about his decision to come

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out as gay, what a struggle 
it was when he was a young 
person, and making the religious

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connection.

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What do we make of that?

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TAMARA KEITH: He, as a 
candidate, has found to a way 
to present himself in a way that

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is very nonthreatening, to 
present his religion in a 
way that is -- that comes 
off as nonthreatening,

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and to couch his gay marriage 
with his husband in religious 
terms, to say that it brought

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him closer to God.

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It is -- through -- he's 
not a very well-known guy.

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He is the mayor of South Bend, 
Indiana, and he has gotten 
a lot of attention, though.

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As I have been traveling around 
the country, the candidate 
that people ask me about the

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most is Pete Buttigieg.

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"What do you think of 
this Mayor Pete guy?"

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Again and again and 
again, I keep hearing it.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: What 
did you make of this?

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AMY WALTER: Yes, I 
think Democrats do.

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They want to fall in 
love with someone.

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They want to be 
inspired by somebody.

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And they don't quite know 
yet who to fall in love with, 
but Pete Buttigieg definitely

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is someone who's capturing 
their attention, in part because 
of -- like that speech, the

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authenticity is just palpable.

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Here he is.

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It's not just discussing 
coming out, running as 
an openly gay candidate.

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It was -- in the speech, 
he talks about, being 
a young person and 
saying, if I could have

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taken a pill to get rid of 
whatever gay was in there, 
I would have done it.

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That's how sort of 
ashamed I was of who I am.

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And so there's this 
realness here that you 
don't hear from candidates.

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It also speaks, though, to 
where we are at this point in 
politics and what certain voters

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are looking for on the 
Democratic side, somebody 
who's willing, not to 
say, I'm a demigod,

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I'm so impressive, that's 
why you should elect me 
president, I'm so much 
better than everybody

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else.

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It's, I'm so much like you.

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The final thing about the 
values argument, Judy, is that 
this is the other piece of the

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argument he makes, not just 
in this speech, but in every 
other, which is, Republicans

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have been on the offense 
on values, Democrats 
have been on the defense.

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We need to take this issue back.

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We have been playing on 
Trump and Republicans' 
ground for too long.

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We need to be the 
party of values.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: You're right.

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It's a theme that he 
has been bringing up.

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AMY WALTER: That's right.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Tam, you 
were with a group of voters in 
Iowa talking to them about some

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of these 2020 Democrats.

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What are you hearing?

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TAMARA KEITH: Yes.

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And these were young voters.

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Sat down with nine of them 
for an extended conversation, 
really to just understand where

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their minds are.

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In Iowa, they have already 
met numerous presidential 
candidates, all of them, 
because that's what

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happens when you're 
a voter in Iowa.

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And the fascinating thing was 
that five of them had said 
that, in 2016, they gave money

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to Bernie Sanders.

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Now, some of that was, they 
wanted to get a sticker.

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They were too young to vote, 
but they were Bernie fans.

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This time, they aren't 
planning to caucus for 
Bernie at this point.

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Only one person said that she 
planned to caucus for Sanders.

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They were excited 
about Beto O'Rourke.

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They were excited 
about Buttigieg.

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The other thing that 
was fascinating is, most 
of these people I was 
talking to were young

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women.

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And yet the female candidates 
were not getting attention 
in this conversation.

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Only one said she was thinking 
she might caucus for Harris.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Interesting, 
a desire for something 
new and something male.

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AMY WALTER: Something new.

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(LAUGHTER)

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AMY WALTER: And, also, this 
is the challenge for Bernie 
Sanders going forward, right?

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He was -- the contrast 
between he and Hillary 
Clinton was so sharp in 2016.

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TAMARA KEITH: Right.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: It was 
just the two of them.

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AMY WALTER: Just 
the two of them.

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Now there are many people who 
are trying to get that mantle.

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The one difference, though, I 
would say between Bernie Sanders 
and everybody else in that

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field, maybe with the exception 
of Elizabeth Warren, is, he 
is running as a revolutionary,

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and the others are running 
really sort of as restorative 
candidates, right?

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You hear this from Joe 
Biden, from Buttigieg, 
from others, their style, 
the ways that they're

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talking about going back to 
this place where we could care 
about each other, where we were

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willing to look beyond our 
differences, vs., we want to 
upend the entire system, which

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is the Warren-Bernie 
Sanders, the system in 
itself is corrupted, 
and it must be replaced.

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And that tension, I think, 
is a significant one.

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But I do think that that part 
of the party that wants a 
real revolution, they're going

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to stick with Bernie Sanders.

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The question is, how big of 
a universe is that, and if 
that core that he has sticks

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with him, that he has right 
now in polling, sticks with 
him, enough so that he builds

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up enough delegates, 
especially early in the game, 
that he remains a factor.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: And an 
interesting contrast in their 
approach to President Trump.

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AMY WALTER: That's right.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: His own 
kind of revolutionary, 
blowing things up.

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AMY WALTER: Exactly.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Do you want to 
emulate that, or do you want 
to go in a kinder, gentler

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direction?

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AMY WALTER: Correct.

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Correct.

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TAMARA KEITH: Do you want to 
knock the house down, or do 
you want to gut it and keep the

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frame?

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(CROSSTALK)

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Brick 
by brick, or...

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(CROSSTALK)

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TAMARA KEITH: Or do you want 
to just do the bathroom?

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.

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(LAUGHTER)

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Or something.

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TAMARA KEITH: Something.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Tam, 
quickly to the president.

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And speaking of blowing 
things up, immigration policy, 
the president's on a tear.

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He wants a tougher 
immigration policy.

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He's getting rid of the 
second homeland security 
secretary in a row.

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What -- clearly, this 
appeals to -- he thinks, 
to his base of supporters.

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But is it going to 
appeal to anybody else?

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TAMARA KEITH: Not necessarily.

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But I don't think he's 
worried about anybody else.

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He's worried about a bad number 
coming out from March that 
says something like 100,000

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border crossers occurred, and 
the trend not going in the 
direction that he wants it to

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go.

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He ran on, I'm going 
to fix this thing.

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And, at the moment, 
it doesn't look fixed.

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And so he's doing a lot 
of things where he's 
signaling, yes, the 
numbers do not look good,

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but I'm on it.

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And he shut the 
government down over it.

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He did the emergency 
declaration over the wall.

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And now he's -- we don't 
know whether it was a 
firing or a resignation 
under fire or whatever

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you want to call it.

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But his homeland security 
secretary is gone.

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And he is shaking things 
up in that department, 
again, signaling that, 
yes, he knows he made

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this promise, and it's not 
looking like it's being kept.

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But he can run on it anyway.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Less than 30 
seconds, but smart politically?

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AMY WALTER: Right.

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So what Democrats will argue 
is, yes, well, we'd be happy 
to make the case in 2020 that

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his immigration policies, 
especially separating 
families, are a topic, right?

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If the president wants to talk 
about he is fulfilling his 
promises, or he won in 2016

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because he believes of 
immigration, he's going 
to lose in 2020 by the 
way he has gone about

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trying to implement 
his policies.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: We don't 
want to wait to find 
out what the answer is.

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We want the answer now.

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We want to know whether 
it's going to work or not.

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AMY WALTER: We 
have so much time.

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So much time.

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(LAUGHTER)

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JUDY WOODRUFF: We do.

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Amy Walter, Tamara Keith, 
the duo, thank you.

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TAMARA KEITH: Thank you.

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AMY WALTER: Thanks, Judy.