JUDY WOODRUFF: And that
brings us to Politics Monday.

I'm back with our regular duo,
Amy Walter of The Cook Political
Report and host of "Politics

With Amy Walter" on WNYC Radio,
and Tamara Keith of NPR, and
co-host of "NPR Politics."

Hello, duo.

AMY WALTER, The Cook
Political Report: Hi.

TAMARA KEITH, National
Public Radio: Hello.

JUDY WOODRUFF: How
do you like that?

AMY WALTER: I like it a lot.

(LAUGHTER)

JUDY WOODRUFF: So, let's
talk about -- interesting
what we heard, Tam, from
Pete Buttigieg, talking

openly for the first time that
we have seen in this season
about his decision to come

out as gay, what a struggle
it was when he was a young
person, and making the religious

connection.

What do we make of that?

TAMARA KEITH: He, as a
candidate, has found to a way
to present himself in a way that

is very nonthreatening, to
present his religion in a
way that is -- that comes
off as nonthreatening,

and to couch his gay marriage
with his husband in religious
terms, to say that it brought

him closer to God.

It is -- through -- he's
not a very well-known guy.

He is the mayor of South Bend,
Indiana, and he has gotten
a lot of attention, though.

As I have been traveling around
the country, the candidate
that people ask me about the

most is Pete Buttigieg.

"What do you think of
this Mayor Pete guy?"

Again and again and
again, I keep hearing it.

JUDY WOODRUFF: What
did you make of this?

AMY WALTER: Yes, I
think Democrats do.

They want to fall in
love with someone.

They want to be
inspired by somebody.

And they don't quite know
yet who to fall in love with,
but Pete Buttigieg definitely

is someone who's capturing
their attention, in part because
of -- like that speech, the

authenticity is just palpable.

Here he is.

It's not just discussing
coming out, running as
an openly gay candidate.

It was -- in the speech,
he talks about, being
a young person and
saying, if I could have

taken a pill to get rid of
whatever gay was in there,
I would have done it.

That's how sort of
ashamed I was of who I am.

And so there's this
realness here that you
don't hear from candidates.

It also speaks, though, to
where we are at this point in
politics and what certain voters

are looking for on the
Democratic side, somebody
who's willing, not to
say, I'm a demigod,

I'm so impressive, that's
why you should elect me
president, I'm so much
better than everybody

else.

It's, I'm so much like you.

The final thing about the
values argument, Judy, is that
this is the other piece of the

argument he makes, not just
in this speech, but in every
other, which is, Republicans

have been on the offense
on values, Democrats
have been on the defense.

We need to take this issue back.

We have been playing on
Trump and Republicans'
ground for too long.

We need to be the
party of values.

JUDY WOODRUFF: You're right.

It's a theme that he
has been bringing up.

AMY WALTER: That's right.

JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Tam, you
were with a group of voters in
Iowa talking to them about some

of these 2020 Democrats.

What are you hearing?

TAMARA KEITH: Yes.

And these were young voters.

Sat down with nine of them
for an extended conversation,
really to just understand where

their minds are.

In Iowa, they have already
met numerous presidential
candidates, all of them,
because that's what

happens when you're
a voter in Iowa.

And the fascinating thing was
that five of them had said
that, in 2016, they gave money

to Bernie Sanders.

Now, some of that was, they
wanted to get a sticker.

They were too young to vote,
but they were Bernie fans.

This time, they aren't
planning to caucus for
Bernie at this point.

Only one person said that she
planned to caucus for Sanders.

They were excited
about Beto O'Rourke.

They were excited
about Buttigieg.

The other thing that
was fascinating is, most
of these people I was
talking to were young

women.

And yet the female candidates
were not getting attention
in this conversation.

Only one said she was thinking
she might caucus for Harris.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Interesting,
a desire for something
new and something male.

AMY WALTER: Something new.

(LAUGHTER)

AMY WALTER: And, also, this
is the challenge for Bernie
Sanders going forward, right?

He was -- the contrast
between he and Hillary
Clinton was so sharp in 2016.

TAMARA KEITH: Right.

JUDY WOODRUFF: It was
just the two of them.

AMY WALTER: Just
the two of them.

Now there are many people who
are trying to get that mantle.

The one difference, though, I
would say between Bernie Sanders
and everybody else in that

field, maybe with the exception
of Elizabeth Warren, is, he
is running as a revolutionary,

and the others are running
really sort of as restorative
candidates, right?

You hear this from Joe
Biden, from Buttigieg,
from others, their style,
the ways that they're

talking about going back to
this place where we could care
about each other, where we were

willing to look beyond our
differences, vs., we want to
upend the entire system, which

is the Warren-Bernie
Sanders, the system in
itself is corrupted,
and it must be replaced.

And that tension, I think,
is a significant one.

But I do think that that part
of the party that wants a
real revolution, they're going

to stick with Bernie Sanders.

The question is, how big of
a universe is that, and if
that core that he has sticks

with him, that he has right
now in polling, sticks with
him, enough so that he builds

up enough delegates,
especially early in the game,
that he remains a factor.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And an
interesting contrast in their
approach to President Trump.

AMY WALTER: That's right.

JUDY WOODRUFF: His own
kind of revolutionary,
blowing things up.

AMY WALTER: Exactly.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Do you want to
emulate that, or do you want
to go in a kinder, gentler

direction?

AMY WALTER: Correct.

Correct.

TAMARA KEITH: Do you want to
knock the house down, or do
you want to gut it and keep the

frame?

(CROSSTALK)

JUDY WOODRUFF: Brick
by brick, or...

(CROSSTALK)

TAMARA KEITH: Or do you want
to just do the bathroom?

JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.

(LAUGHTER)

JUDY WOODRUFF: Or something.

TAMARA KEITH: Something.

JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Tam,
quickly to the president.

And speaking of blowing
things up, immigration policy,
the president's on a tear.

He wants a tougher
immigration policy.

He's getting rid of the
second homeland security
secretary in a row.

What -- clearly, this
appeals to -- he thinks,
to his base of supporters.

But is it going to
appeal to anybody else?

TAMARA KEITH: Not necessarily.

But I don't think he's
worried about anybody else.

He's worried about a bad number
coming out from March that
says something like 100,000

border crossers occurred, and
the trend not going in the
direction that he wants it to

go.

He ran on, I'm going
to fix this thing.

And, at the moment,
it doesn't look fixed.

And so he's doing a lot
of things where he's
signaling, yes, the
numbers do not look good,

but I'm on it.

And he shut the
government down over it.

He did the emergency
declaration over the wall.

And now he's -- we don't
know whether it was a
firing or a resignation
under fire or whatever

you want to call it.

But his homeland security
secretary is gone.

And he is shaking things
up in that department,
again, signaling that,
yes, he knows he made

this promise, and it's not
looking like it's being kept.

But he can run on it anyway.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Less than 30
seconds, but smart politically?

AMY WALTER: Right.

So what Democrats will argue
is, yes, well, we'd be happy
to make the case in 2020 that

his immigration policies,
especially separating
families, are a topic, right?

If the president wants to talk
about he is fulfilling his
promises, or he won in 2016

because he believes of
immigration, he's going
to lose in 2020 by the
way he has gone about

trying to implement
his policies.

JUDY WOODRUFF: We don't
want to wait to find
out what the answer is.

We want the answer now.

We want to know whether
it's going to work or not.

AMY WALTER: We
have so much time.

So much time.

(LAUGHTER)

JUDY WOODRUFF: We do.

Amy Walter, Tamara Keith,
the duo, thank you.

TAMARA KEITH: Thank you.

AMY WALTER: Thanks, Judy.