1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:03,233 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: There are new questions being raised about payments to President Trump's 2 00:00:03,233 --> 00:00:05,366 personal attorney, Michael Cohen. 3 00:00:05,366 --> 00:00:08,200 The money went to a shell company set up by Cohen. 4 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:13,200 It totaled more than $4 million, including about $500,000 from a U.S. company with ties 5 00:00:14,633 --> 00:00:18,100 to a Russian oligarch who is close to Vladimir Putin. 6 00:00:18,100 --> 00:00:20,100 John Yang breaks down what we know. 7 00:00:20,100 --> 00:00:24,333 JOHN YANG: William, the payments went to the company that Cohen says he set up to pay the 8 00:00:24,333 --> 00:00:29,333 $130,000 hush money to adult film actress Stephanie Clifford. 9 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,266 Her attorney, Michael Avenatti, revealed the payments in a document he posted online. 10 00:00:34,266 --> 00:00:38,100 To help us unpack all of this, here's Rosalind Helderman. 11 00:00:38,100 --> 00:00:41,300 She's the Washington Post political investigations reporter. 12 00:00:41,300 --> 00:00:43,433 Rosalind, thanks so much for joining us. 13 00:00:43,433 --> 00:00:47,900 Of the payments that you have been able to confirm, who did they come from, and how much 14 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:50,966 money are we talking about? 15 00:00:50,966 --> 00:00:54,133 ROSALIND HELDERMAN, The Washington Post: We're talking about, I think it's about $2.5 million 16 00:00:55,233 --> 00:00:57,066 that seems to be confirmed at this point. 17 00:00:57,066 --> 00:01:02,033 And they come from some major U.S. and foreign companies. 18 00:01:02,033 --> 00:01:07,033 They include AT&T, Novartis, a pharmaceutical company. 19 00:01:09,466 --> 00:01:12,633 They include this company Columbus Nova, which is a U.S.-based affiliate of a company that 20 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:18,433 is owned and founded by a Russian businessman. 21 00:01:20,466 --> 00:01:23,833 One thing that ties a number of these companies together is that they had major issues pending 22 00:01:23,833 --> 00:01:25,933 before the U.S. government. 23 00:01:25,933 --> 00:01:30,633 But each of them, in turn, has essentially said that that's not why they hired Mr. Cohen, 24 00:01:32,666 --> 00:01:35,366 that they hired him for various reasons, to provide real estate advice, to provide accounting 25 00:01:35,366 --> 00:01:37,966 advice, for his general legal knowledge. 26 00:01:37,966 --> 00:01:42,800 JOHN YANG: And, Rosalind, what -- I know there was a filing late today, Michael Cohen challenging 27 00:01:44,533 --> 00:01:47,100 some of this information that Michael Avenatti put out. 28 00:01:47,100 --> 00:01:48,366 What can you tell us about that? 29 00:01:48,366 --> 00:01:50,033 ROSALIND HELDERMAN: Yes, that's right. 30 00:01:50,033 --> 00:01:52,633 That just came in, I think, within the last 10 minutes or so. 31 00:01:52,633 --> 00:01:57,433 This is lawyers for Michael Cohen saying basically two things in court about the Avenatti information. 32 00:01:59,500 --> 00:02:03,233 On the one hand, they seem to be conceding that some of it is accurate, because they 33 00:02:03,233 --> 00:02:08,233 say it's a sign that Avenatti improperly has access to Michael Cohen's bank records. 34 00:02:10,766 --> 00:02:14,666 And they're trying to get the court to force Avenatti to say where he's getting this information, 35 00:02:16,633 --> 00:02:19,233 so they can assess whether he properly should have access to that information. 36 00:02:19,233 --> 00:02:23,666 At the same time, they cited some of the details that have not been covered in the media, because 37 00:02:25,633 --> 00:02:28,300 I think the media has not been able to confirm them, a few additional details that are sort 38 00:02:28,300 --> 00:02:31,300 of on the last page of what Avenatti put out. 39 00:02:31,300 --> 00:02:33,900 And they're suggesting that that information might actually be false. 40 00:02:33,900 --> 00:02:38,400 JOHN YANG: And, in addition, the Treasury Department inspector general has begun an 41 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:43,400 investigation about whether any confidential banking records have been tampered with. 42 00:02:45,066 --> 00:02:47,300 Why is Avenatti so interested in this? 43 00:02:47,300 --> 00:02:49,400 Why is he putting this out? 44 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,666 ROSALIND HELDERMAN: I think that he -- what he has said is that it gives you more information 45 00:02:53,666 --> 00:02:58,633 about the -- the sort of process by which his client, Ms. Clifford, was paid, because 46 00:03:00,666 --> 00:03:05,333 Michael Cohen seems to have used this same bank account that he used to pay Stormy Daniels, 47 00:03:06,933 --> 00:03:10,066 as she is better known, as he did for all these other transactions. 48 00:03:10,066 --> 00:03:12,633 He says that his strategy is working. 49 00:03:12,633 --> 00:03:15,566 He's on TV a great deal, as your viewers probably know. 50 00:03:15,566 --> 00:03:20,000 And, as a result, people are just sending him information that is relevant and helps 51 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:24,533 inform the American public about the activities of Mr. Cohen and President Trump. 52 00:03:24,533 --> 00:03:26,666 And he's trying to publicize that. 53 00:03:26,666 --> 00:03:30,766 JOHN YANG: What else is sort of intriguing about these -- where -- the source of these 54 00:03:30,766 --> 00:03:31,766 payments? 55 00:03:31,766 --> 00:03:33,866 ROSALIND HELDERMAN: Yes. 56 00:03:33,866 --> 00:03:36,800 I mean, I think one thing that's very interesting is the sort of -- the picture you get of the 57 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,066 swamp as it exists under Donald Trump. 58 00:03:39,066 --> 00:03:42,400 Of course, President Trump ran against the D.C. swamp. 59 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,566 And one thing that's been very clear is that people associated with President Trump, with 60 00:03:46,566 --> 00:03:51,566 his campaign, with his business, who can argue to major companies that they know this very 61 00:03:54,033 --> 00:03:57,133 hard-to-understand world of Trump's Washington suddenly have found themselves with very marketable 62 00:03:58,233 --> 00:04:00,766 skills. 63 00:04:00,766 --> 00:04:03,633 I spoke to several people like that just today who said essentially that their phones were 64 00:04:03,633 --> 00:04:08,633 ringing off the hook starting in January of 2017 from companies who wanted to, you know, 65 00:04:10,300 --> 00:04:13,400 essentially throw money at them to understand Donald Trump. 66 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,833 JOHN YANG: And not only understand Donald Trump. 67 00:04:15,833 --> 00:04:20,833 You said that some of these companies had business before the government in the past 68 00:04:21,433 --> 00:04:22,666 couple of years. 69 00:04:22,666 --> 00:04:24,600 ROSALIND HELDERMAN: Yes, that's right. 70 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,766 AT&T was -- is going through a merger which requires Department of Justice approval. 71 00:04:27,766 --> 00:04:30,100 That's an important thing for that company. 72 00:04:30,100 --> 00:04:32,866 They say it's unrelated to these payments. 73 00:04:32,866 --> 00:04:37,866 Novartis, their CEO had a meeting with Donald Trump not long after this payment. 74 00:04:39,066 --> 00:04:41,533 They, too, say that that was unrelated. 75 00:04:41,533 --> 00:04:46,533 But these are companies that have -- another one of them, Korean Aerospace, makes aircraft 76 00:04:48,500 --> 00:04:52,700 and is competing for a very, very large contract with the U.S. Air Force. 77 00:04:54,066 --> 00:04:56,433 They, too, say that's unrelated to these payments. 78 00:04:56,433 --> 00:05:00,333 But these are companies that had things they were trying to get out of the U.S. government. 79 00:05:00,333 --> 00:05:04,833 JOHN YANG: And, Rosalind, we should note that another of President Trump's personal attorneys, 80 00:05:04,833 --> 00:05:09,833 Rudolph Giuliani, is saying this evening that the president had no knowledge of these payments 81 00:05:10,433 --> 00:05:11,600 to Cohen. 82 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,700 But this story will go on. 83 00:05:13,700 --> 00:05:16,500 Rosalind Helderman of The Washington Post, thank you so much for joining us. 84 00:05:16,500 --> 00:05:17,100 ROSALIND HELDERMAN: Thank you for having me.