1 00:00:02,033 --> 00:00:04,900 JUDY WOODRUFF: Dick Durbin of Illinois is the second highest ranking Democrat in the Senate. 2 00:00:04,900 --> 00:00:09,633 He is also a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. And he joins us now from Capitol Hill. 3 00:00:09,633 --> 00:00:12,566 Senator Durbin, thank you very much for talking with us. 4 00:00:12,566 --> 00:00:17,566 As you know, Republicans are on the verge of confirming President Trump's third appointee 5 00:00:20,033 --> 00:00:24,633 to the Supreme Court. She will be -- Judge Barrett will be sitting on the court as early as tomorrow. 6 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:31,266 How -- and this is over the fierce objection of you and every other Democrat. 7 00:00:32,733 --> 00:00:34,933 How dig a setback is this for Democrats? 8 00:00:34,933 --> 00:00:37,333 SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Well, it's a disappointment, because we -- as you 9 00:00:37,333 --> 00:00:42,100 said, we are putting a person for a lifetime appointment on the highest court of the land. 10 00:00:44,100 --> 00:00:47,500 And to give to President Trump the authority to fill three of those slots 11 00:00:47,500 --> 00:00:52,466 with people of his choosing is a troubling development, particularly at this moment in time. 12 00:00:54,300 --> 00:00:57,000 Judy, if anyone was coursing through the channels today and looking, 13 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:01,966 finding the broadcast of the United States Senate, they would be shocked to learn that 14 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,666 we weren't talking about the coronavirus. Here we are, with an infection running rampant, 15 00:01:06,666 --> 00:01:11,666 225,000 Americans dead. We spent five straight days on one Supreme Court nomination. 16 00:01:13,633 --> 00:01:16,266 And, secondly, I think they would be a little surprised that the standard the 17 00:01:16,266 --> 00:01:21,233 Republicans set four years ago to deny President Obama the authority to fill a 18 00:01:21,233 --> 00:01:26,233 Supreme Court vacancy so close to an election is being ignored by the Republicans now. 19 00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:30,333 And then, when they that the hurry-up is so that she will be on the court 20 00:01:30,333 --> 00:01:34,166 in time to strike down the Affordable Care Act in the midst of a pandemic, 21 00:01:35,300 --> 00:01:37,866 I think all those things are very troubling. 22 00:01:37,866 --> 00:01:41,266 JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, several things to ask you about there, I mean, but starting with the Senate 23 00:01:41,266 --> 00:01:46,233 Republicans and their refusal to act on President Obama's nomination to the court, Merrick Garland. 24 00:01:49,166 --> 00:01:52,166 The court -- there were eight justices for 25 00:01:54,100 --> 00:01:57,900 a year. Is that an argument for adding a couple of justices to the Supreme Court? 26 00:01:59,900 --> 00:02:01,933 SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Judy, I don't think anyone has come up with a formula 27 00:02:01,933 --> 00:02:03,633 on what to do with the court in the future. 28 00:02:03,633 --> 00:02:06,500 But I will tell you what I believe the American people are looking for, 29 00:02:08,433 --> 00:02:11,766 balance on the court. They don't want too many Democrats, too many Republicans. They 30 00:02:11,766 --> 00:02:16,166 want some people who are more moderate. They want decisions that are not predictable. They 31 00:02:16,166 --> 00:02:21,166 don't want a political agenda that is going to dictate this court's future rulings. 32 00:02:22,566 --> 00:02:24,566 And that, I think, sadly, is where we're headed. 33 00:02:24,566 --> 00:02:26,633 JUDY WOODRUFF: Judge Barrett said during this confirmation hearing that 34 00:02:26,633 --> 00:02:31,066 she was not on a mission to destroy the Affordable Care Act. Do you believe her? 35 00:02:31,066 --> 00:02:34,666 SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Well, I'm skeptical, because she's been very outspoken, 36 00:02:34,666 --> 00:02:39,466 critical of the chief justice when he found the act constitutional. 37 00:02:39,466 --> 00:02:42,900 She published an article saying she disagreed with him openly. 38 00:02:42,900 --> 00:02:47,733 Critical as well of the Affordable Care Act itself. And those raise questions as to 39 00:02:47,733 --> 00:02:52,700 whether or not she should recuse herself, at a minimum, recuse herself from this hearing. 40 00:02:54,300 --> 00:02:56,866 And let me say, even though she denies having any bias on the case, 41 00:02:56,866 --> 00:03:01,300 President Trump, in his prodigious tweeting, has said that was what he was looking for. 42 00:03:01,300 --> 00:03:05,300 He wanted a Supreme Court justice who would eliminate the Affordable Care Act. 43 00:03:05,300 --> 00:03:08,433 He believes he found one. She may deny it, but that's what he said. 44 00:03:08,433 --> 00:03:13,433 JUDY WOODRUFF: There is also -- Senator Durbin, as you know, there are two important mail-in ballot 45 00:03:16,100 --> 00:03:20,433 questions before the court right now that affect this election. 46 00:03:21,566 --> 00:03:23,533 Should Judge Barrett recuse herself? 47 00:03:23,533 --> 00:03:26,566 Is it a conflict of interests if she participates in these cases? 48 00:03:26,566 --> 00:03:29,866 SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: To protect her integrity and the integrity the court, 49 00:03:29,866 --> 00:03:34,333 she should recuse herself from any cases relating to this presidential election, 50 00:03:35,733 --> 00:03:39,066 another case where the president was outspoken in his tweets. 51 00:03:39,066 --> 00:03:43,133 He wanted nine justices on the Supreme Court in case there were any election questions 52 00:03:43,133 --> 00:03:48,133 to come before the court. For goodness' sakes, this president doesn't have an unuttered word. 53 00:03:49,966 --> 00:03:52,100 We know exactly what he's thinking. He wants a friendly justice on the court 54 00:03:52,100 --> 00:03:55,800 if he needs a ruling that makes him a president of the United States again. 55 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,133 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, finally, Senator, you brought up 56 00:03:58,133 --> 00:04:02,100 the question of COVID relief for the American people. 57 00:04:04,066 --> 00:04:07,900 There's a $2 trillion bill that has been sitting before the Congress since the summer. 58 00:04:10,966 --> 00:04:14,833 And now we're getting close to this election. Speaker Pelosi 59 00:04:14,833 --> 00:04:19,833 has said she doesn't want to come down from a number close to $2 trillion. 60 00:04:21,900 --> 00:04:26,866 Should she agree -- should she agree to compromise on this because of the many, 61 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,233 many Americans who are hurting right now? 62 00:04:29,233 --> 00:04:31,233 SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Both sides should agree. 63 00:04:31,233 --> 00:04:34,266 But let's be honest. Senator McConnell sent a message to the White House last 64 00:04:34,266 --> 00:04:38,666 week and said: It's over. We're not going to consider any more COVID-19 legislation. 65 00:04:40,700 --> 00:04:43,700 And, unfortunately, he has boycotted all the negotiating sessions. He just won't even attend 66 00:04:43,700 --> 00:04:48,700 them. He has no interest in it. He doesn't see, as he said, a sense of urgency in dealing with this. 67 00:04:50,766 --> 00:04:52,900 I can tell you, there's a sense of urgency in my state of Illinois and his state of Kentucky, 68 00:04:52,900 --> 00:04:56,966 when you look at the record number of infections and deaths in both of those states. 69 00:04:56,966 --> 00:05:01,366 We should be dealing with this issue. And Speaker Pelosi has tried, tried, tried 70 00:05:01,366 --> 00:05:04,666 with this White House. It would be helpful if the other element, 71 00:05:04,666 --> 00:05:07,633 the Republican control of the Senate, would be part of this negotiation. 72 00:05:07,633 --> 00:05:12,166 JUDY WOODRUFF: But you're saying both parties have a responsibility here 73 00:05:12,166 --> 00:05:14,966 to negotiate, to come together? 74 00:05:14,966 --> 00:05:16,866 SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Oh, absolutely. 75 00:05:16,866 --> 00:05:20,766 And we started at $3.4 trillion. The last number I heard was closer to $2 trillion, 76 00:05:22,300 --> 00:05:24,833 $2.3 trillion from Speaker Pelosi. She's come down dramatically. 77 00:05:24,833 --> 00:05:28,166 But the point she's making was brought home to me today by Illinois hospital 78 00:05:30,166 --> 00:05:33,633 administrators. I had 30 of them on a phone call. They're desperate for help. They are 79 00:05:33,633 --> 00:05:37,133 worried that they can't really meet the needs in my home state with the people 80 00:05:37,133 --> 00:05:41,866 who are facing infections and ICUs. They're looking for a helping hand from Washington. 81 00:05:41,866 --> 00:05:46,166 And here we are doing what? Five straight days on one Supreme Court nominee, 82 00:05:46,166 --> 00:05:50,033 not a minute being spent to find the solution to this coronavirus challenge. 83 00:05:50,033 --> 00:05:53,533 JUDY WOODRUFF: Should Speaker Pelosi accommodate further, more? 84 00:05:53,533 --> 00:05:55,933 SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Well, I'm calling on both sides to be reasonable. 85 00:05:55,933 --> 00:05:57,933 And I think she has brought the number down 86 00:05:57,933 --> 00:06:02,933 dramatically from $3.4 trillion. They're close enough now, there should be an agreement. 87 00:06:04,933 --> 00:06:06,666 JUDY WOODRUFF: Senator Dick Durbin, we thank you very much for talking with us. 88 00:06:06,666 --> 00:06:11,666 SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: You bet.