JUDY WOODRUFF: Dick Durbin of
Illinois is the second highest
ranking Democrat in the Senate.

He is also a member of
the Senate Judiciary
Committee. And he joins
us now from Capitol Hill.

Senator Durbin, thank you
very much for talking with us.

As you know, Republicans
are on the verge of
confirming President
Trump's third appointee

to the Supreme Court. She
will be -- Judge Barrett
will be sitting on the
court as early as tomorrow.

How -- and this is over
the fierce objection of you
and every other Democrat.

How dig a setback is
this for Democrats?

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Well,
it's a disappointment,
because we -- as you

said, we are putting a person
for a lifetime appointment on
the highest court of the land.

And to give to President
Trump the authority to
fill three of those slots

with people of his
choosing is a troubling
development, particularly
at this moment in time.

Judy, if anyone was
coursing through the
channels today and looking,

finding the broadcast of the
United States Senate, they
would be shocked to learn that

we weren't talking about the
coronavirus. Here we are, with
an infection running rampant,

225,000 Americans dead. We
spent five straight days on
one Supreme Court nomination.

And, secondly, I think they
would be a little surprised
that the standard the

Republicans set four years
ago to deny President Obama
the authority to fill a

Supreme Court vacancy so
close to an election is being
ignored by the Republicans now.

And then, when they that
the hurry-up is so that
she will be on the court

in time to strike down
the Affordable Care Act in
the midst of a pandemic,

I think all those things
are very troubling.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Well,
several things to ask you
about there, I mean, but
starting with the Senate

Republicans and their
refusal to act on President
Obama's nomination to the
court, Merrick Garland.

The court -- there
were eight justices for

a year. Is that an argument
for adding a couple of
justices to the Supreme Court?

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Judy,
I don't think anyone has
come up with a formula

on what to do with the
court in the future.

But I will tell you what
I believe the American
people are looking for,

balance on the court. They
don't want too many Democrats,
too many Republicans. They

want some people who are more
moderate. They want decisions
that are not predictable. They

don't want a political agenda
that is going to dictate
this court's future rulings.

And that, I think, sadly,
is where we're headed.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Judge
Barrett said during this
confirmation hearing that

she was not on a mission to
destroy the Affordable Care
Act. Do you believe her?

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Well,
I'm skeptical, because
she's been very outspoken,

critical of the chief
justice when he found
the act constitutional.

She published an article saying
she disagreed with him openly.

Critical as well of the
Affordable Care Act itself.
And those raise questions as to

whether or not she should recuse
herself, at a minimum, recuse
herself from this hearing.

And let me say, even
though she denies having
any bias on the case,

President Trump, in his
prodigious tweeting,
has said that was what
he was looking for.

He wanted a Supreme Court
justice who would eliminate
the Affordable Care Act.

He believes he found
one. She may deny it,
but that's what he said.

JUDY WOODRUFF: There is
also -- Senator Durbin,
as you know, there are two
important mail-in ballot

questions before the court right
now that affect this election.

Should Judge Barrett
recuse herself?

Is it a conflict of interests if
she participates in these cases?

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: To
protect her integrity and
the integrity the court,

she should recuse herself
from any cases relating to
this presidential election,

another case where the president
was outspoken in his tweets.

He wanted nine justices on the
Supreme Court in case there
were any election questions

to come before the court. For
goodness' sakes, this president
doesn't have an unuttered word.

We know exactly what
he's thinking. He wants a
friendly justice on the court

if he needs a ruling that
makes him a president of
the United States again.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And, finally,
Senator, you brought up

the question of COVID relief
for the American people.

There's a $2 trillion bill
that has been sitting before
the Congress since the summer.

And now we're getting close to
this election. Speaker Pelosi

has said she doesn't want
to come down from a number
close to $2 trillion.

Should she agree -- should
she agree to compromise on
this because of the many,

many Americans who
are hurting right now?

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN:
Both sides should agree.

But let's be honest. Senator
McConnell sent a message
to the White House last

week and said: It's over.
We're not going to consider
any more COVID-19 legislation.

And, unfortunately, he
has boycotted all the
negotiating sessions. He
just won't even attend

them. He has no interest
in it. He doesn't see, as
he said, a sense of urgency
in dealing with this.

I can tell you, there's
a sense of urgency in
my state of Illinois and
his state of Kentucky,

when you look at the record
number of infections and
deaths in both of those states.

We should be dealing with
this issue. And Speaker
Pelosi has tried, tried, tried

with this White House. It would
be helpful if the other element,

the Republican control
of the Senate, would be
part of this negotiation.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But you're
saying both parties have
a responsibility here

to negotiate, to come together?

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN:
Oh, absolutely.

And we started at $3.4 trillion.
The last number I heard
was closer to $2 trillion,

$2.3 trillion from
Speaker Pelosi. She's
come down dramatically.

But the point she's making
was brought home to me
today by Illinois hospital

administrators. I had 30 of
them on a phone call. They're
desperate for help. They are

worried that they can't
really meet the needs in my
home state with the people

who are facing infections and
ICUs. They're looking for a
helping hand from Washington.

And here we are doing what?
Five straight days on one
Supreme Court nominee,

not a minute being spent
to find the solution to
this coronavirus challenge.

JUDY WOODRUFF:
Should Speaker Pelosi
accommodate further, more?

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN:
Well, I'm calling on both
sides to be reasonable.

And I think she has
brought the number down

dramatically from $3.4 trillion.
They're close enough now,
there should be an agreement.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Senator Dick
Durbin, we thank you very
much for talking with us.

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: You bet.