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JUDY WOODRUFF: Dick Durbin of
Illinois is the second highest
ranking Democrat in the Senate.

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He is also a member of
the Senate Judiciary
Committee. And he joins
us now from Capitol Hill.

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Senator Durbin, thank you
very much for talking with us.

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As you know, Republicans
are on the verge of
confirming President
Trump's third appointee

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to the Supreme Court. She
will be -- Judge Barrett
will be sitting on the
court as early as tomorrow.

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How -- and this is over
the fierce objection of you
and every other Democrat.

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How dig a setback is
this for Democrats?

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SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Well,
it's a disappointment,
because we -- as you

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said, we are putting a person
for a lifetime appointment on
the highest court of the land.

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And to give to President
Trump the authority to
fill three of those slots

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with people of his
choosing is a troubling
development, particularly
at this moment in time.

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Judy, if anyone was
coursing through the
channels today and looking,

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finding the broadcast of the
United States Senate, they
would be shocked to learn that

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we weren't talking about the
coronavirus. Here we are, with
an infection running rampant,

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225,000 Americans dead. We
spent five straight days on
one Supreme Court nomination.

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And, secondly, I think they
would be a little surprised
that the standard the

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Republicans set four years
ago to deny President Obama
the authority to fill a

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Supreme Court vacancy so
close to an election is being
ignored by the Republicans now.

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And then, when they that
the hurry-up is so that
she will be on the court

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in time to strike down
the Affordable Care Act in
the midst of a pandemic,

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I think all those things
are very troubling.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Well,
several things to ask you
about there, I mean, but
starting with the Senate

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Republicans and their
refusal to act on President
Obama's nomination to the
court, Merrick Garland.

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The court -- there
were eight justices for

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a year. Is that an argument
for adding a couple of
justices to the Supreme Court?

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SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Judy,
I don't think anyone has
come up with a formula

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on what to do with the
court in the future.

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But I will tell you what
I believe the American
people are looking for,

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balance on the court. They
don't want too many Democrats,
too many Republicans. They

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want some people who are more
moderate. They want decisions
that are not predictable. They

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don't want a political agenda
that is going to dictate
this court's future rulings.

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And that, I think, sadly,
is where we're headed.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Judge
Barrett said during this
confirmation hearing that

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she was not on a mission to
destroy the Affordable Care
Act. Do you believe her?

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SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: Well,
I'm skeptical, because
she's been very outspoken,

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critical of the chief
justice when he found
the act constitutional.

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She published an article saying
she disagreed with him openly.

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Critical as well of the
Affordable Care Act itself.
And those raise questions as to

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whether or not she should recuse
herself, at a minimum, recuse
herself from this hearing.

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And let me say, even
though she denies having
any bias on the case,

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President Trump, in his
prodigious tweeting,
has said that was what
he was looking for.

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He wanted a Supreme Court
justice who would eliminate
the Affordable Care Act.

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He believes he found
one. She may deny it,
but that's what he said.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: There is
also -- Senator Durbin,
as you know, there are two
important mail-in ballot

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questions before the court right
now that affect this election.

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Should Judge Barrett
recuse herself?

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Is it a conflict of interests if
she participates in these cases?

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SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: To
protect her integrity and
the integrity the court,

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she should recuse herself
from any cases relating to
this presidential election,

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another case where the president
was outspoken in his tweets.

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He wanted nine justices on the
Supreme Court in case there
were any election questions

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to come before the court. For
goodness' sakes, this president
doesn't have an unuttered word.

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We know exactly what
he's thinking. He wants a
friendly justice on the court

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if he needs a ruling that
makes him a president of
the United States again.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: And, finally,
Senator, you brought up

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the question of COVID relief
for the American people.

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There's a $2 trillion bill
that has been sitting before
the Congress since the summer.

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And now we're getting close to
this election. Speaker Pelosi

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has said she doesn't want
to come down from a number
close to $2 trillion.

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Should she agree -- should
she agree to compromise on
this because of the many,

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many Americans who
are hurting right now?

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SEN. RICHARD DURBIN:
Both sides should agree.

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But let's be honest. Senator
McConnell sent a message
to the White House last

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week and said: It's over.
We're not going to consider
any more COVID-19 legislation.

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And, unfortunately, he
has boycotted all the
negotiating sessions. He
just won't even attend

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them. He has no interest
in it. He doesn't see, as
he said, a sense of urgency
in dealing with this.

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I can tell you, there's
a sense of urgency in
my state of Illinois and
his state of Kentucky,

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when you look at the record
number of infections and
deaths in both of those states.

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We should be dealing with
this issue. And Speaker
Pelosi has tried, tried, tried

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with this White House. It would
be helpful if the other element,

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the Republican control
of the Senate, would be
part of this negotiation.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: But you're
saying both parties have
a responsibility here

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to negotiate, to come together?

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SEN. RICHARD DURBIN:
Oh, absolutely.

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And we started at $3.4 trillion.
The last number I heard
was closer to $2 trillion,

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$2.3 trillion from
Speaker Pelosi. She's
come down dramatically.

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But the point she's making
was brought home to me
today by Illinois hospital

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administrators. I had 30 of
them on a phone call. They're
desperate for help. They are

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worried that they can't
really meet the needs in my
home state with the people

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who are facing infections and
ICUs. They're looking for a
helping hand from Washington.

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And here we are doing what?
Five straight days on one
Supreme Court nominee,

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not a minute being spent
to find the solution to
this coronavirus challenge.

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JUDY WOODRUFF:
Should Speaker Pelosi
accommodate further, more?

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SEN. RICHARD DURBIN:
Well, I'm calling on both
sides to be reasonable.

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And I think she has
brought the number down

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dramatically from $3.4 trillion.
They're close enough now,
there should be an agreement.

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JUDY WOODRUFF: Senator Dick
Durbin, we thank you very
much for talking with us.

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SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: You bet.