1 00:00:01,966 --> 00:00:04,700 JOHN YANG: The stage is set tonight for the next act in the impeachment drama: a Senate 2 00:00:04,700 --> 00:00:07,233 trial of President Trump. 3 00:00:07,233 --> 00:00:11,666 But there are questions about just when that will happen. Those questions arose after House 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,700 Democrats finished their work last night, and the answers remained unclear today. 5 00:00:18,733 --> 00:00:23,533 The morning after the House voted to impeach President Trump, Senate Majority Leader Mitch 6 00:00:24,666 --> 00:00:26,633 McConnell reassured the president's allies. 7 00:00:26,633 --> 00:00:29,466 SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): The Senate exists for moments like this. 8 00:00:29,466 --> 00:00:34,466 JOHN YANG: He slammed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who has said she may delay sending 9 00:00:36,466 --> 00:00:39,233 the articles of impeachment to the Senate, a necessary step to start the president's 10 00:00:39,233 --> 00:00:41,400 trial in that chamber. 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,233 SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL: House Democrats may be too afraid, too afraid to even transmit 12 00:00:47,233 --> 00:00:50,733 their shoddy work product to the Senate. Mr. President, looks like the prosecutors are 13 00:00:52,166 --> 00:00:55,833 getting cold feet in front of the entire country. 14 00:00:55,833 --> 00:01:00,833 JOHN YANG: Today, Pelosi said she wouldn't set the wheels in motion for a Senate trial, 15 00:01:02,833 --> 00:01:05,966 including naming the House managers who would prosecute, until she got assurances that the 16 00:01:06,700 --> 00:01:08,833 rules would be fair. 17 00:01:08,833 --> 00:01:12,633 REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): The next thing will be when we see the process that is set forth 18 00:01:14,633 --> 00:01:17,866 in the Senate. Then we will know the number of managers that we may have to go forward 19 00:01:19,666 --> 00:01:21,366 and who -- who we would choose. 20 00:01:21,366 --> 00:01:24,666 JOHN YANG: In the Oval Office, the president blasted House Democrats. 21 00:01:24,666 --> 00:01:29,566 DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: We think that what they did is wrong. We think 22 00:01:29,566 --> 00:01:34,566 that what they did is unconstitutional. And the Senate is very, very capable. We have 23 00:01:35,700 --> 00:01:37,766 great senators, Republican senators. 24 00:01:37,766 --> 00:01:42,366 JOHN YANG: The Senate is at loggerheads over Democratic leader Chuck Schumer's request 25 00:01:42,366 --> 00:01:44,366 to call trial witnesses. 26 00:01:44,366 --> 00:01:47,866 SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Leader McConnell is plotting the most rushed, least thorough, 27 00:01:47,866 --> 00:01:51,300 and most unfair impeachment trial in modern history. 28 00:01:51,300 --> 00:01:55,333 JOHN YANG: The president's defenders, like Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey 29 00:01:55,333 --> 00:01:58,033 Graham of South Carolina, rejected that. 30 00:01:58,033 --> 00:02:01,966 SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): If there's a witness request by the president, I'm going to say 31 00:02:01,966 --> 00:02:06,966 no. If there's a witness request by anybody, I'm going to say no. I want this to end quickly. 32 00:02:11,500 --> 00:02:16,500 JOHN YANG: Today, the president also got support from a fellow world leader, Russian President 33 00:02:17,100 --> 00:02:19,166 Vladimir Putin. 34 00:02:19,166 --> 00:02:22,833 VLADIMIR PUTIN, Russian President (through translator): The U.S. Senate will be unlikely 35 00:02:22,833 --> 00:02:27,833 to remove a representative of their own party from office on what seems to me an absolutely 36 00:02:28,566 --> 00:02:29,733 far-fetched reason. 37 00:02:29,733 --> 00:02:32,233 REP. NANCY PELOSI: Article one is adopted. 38 00:02:32,233 --> 00:02:37,233 JOHN YANG: Last night, as the House impeached him, President Trump was rallying his supporters 39 00:02:38,100 --> 00:02:40,500 in Battle Creek, Michigan. 40 00:02:40,500 --> 00:02:44,233 DONALD TRUMP: This lawless, partisan impeachment is a political suicide march for the Democrat 41 00:02:45,733 --> 00:02:48,266 Party. 42 00:02:48,266 --> 00:02:50,566 JOHN YANG: And he sparked controversy by seeming to suggest that the late Michigan lawmaker 43 00:02:50,566 --> 00:02:54,700 John Dingell was looking up from hell. 44 00:02:54,700 --> 00:02:59,233 The president recounted a conversation with Representative Debbie Dingell, John Dingell's 45 00:02:59,233 --> 00:03:01,733 widow, about memorials after his death. 46 00:03:01,733 --> 00:03:06,733 DONALD TRUMP: She calls me up. It's the nicest thing that's ever happened. Thank you so much. 47 00:03:08,666 --> 00:03:11,800 John would be so thrilled. He's looking down. He would be so thrilled. Thank you so much, 48 00:03:12,266 --> 00:03:13,466 sir. 49 00:03:13,466 --> 00:03:15,466 I said, that's OK. Don't worry about it. 50 00:03:15,466 --> 00:03:19,000 Maybe he's looking up. I don't know. 51 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:20,000 (LAUGHTER) 52 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,500 (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) 53 00:03:22,500 --> 00:03:25,033 JOHN YANG: Tomorrow, Congress begins a two-week holiday recess, returning to the Capitol and 54 00:03:25,033 --> 00:03:28,966 any future action on impeachment in the new year. 55 00:03:28,966 --> 00:03:33,733 This evening, Senate leaders McConnell and Schumer met for an hour to talk about the 56 00:03:33,733 --> 00:03:38,200 impeachment trial. McConnell said they had a cordial conversation, but remained at an 57 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,266 impasse. 58 00:03:40,266 --> 00:03:44,200 Now, just what is House Speaker Pelosi trying to do by threatening to delay the process, 59 00:03:45,366 --> 00:03:47,833 and what are the rules about this? 60 00:03:47,833 --> 00:03:50,533 Michael Conway was counsel to the House Judiciary Committee in the impeachment inquiry of President 61 00:03:50,533 --> 00:03:52,100 Nixon in the 1970s. 62 00:03:52,100 --> 00:03:54,133 Mr. Conway, thanks so much for joining us. 63 00:03:54,133 --> 00:03:56,200 MICHAEL CONWAY, Former House Judiciary Committee Counsel: My pleasure. 64 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,966 JOHN YANG: First of all, what are the rules? What -- when does -- or does the speaker ever 65 00:03:59,966 --> 00:04:03,900 have to transmit these articles of impeachment, or could she hold on this them forever? 66 00:04:03,900 --> 00:04:08,600 MICHAEL CONWAY: Well, she could hold on to them forever, at great political risk. 67 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:13,600 The Constitution says sole power only twice. It says the House has the sole power of impeachment. 68 00:04:15,566 --> 00:04:19,366 The Senate has the sole power of trying the impeachment. Until she lets go of the articles 69 00:04:19,366 --> 00:04:23,133 of impeachment, Nancy Pelosi can do with them what she wishes. 70 00:04:23,133 --> 00:04:27,733 And the U.S. Supreme Court in the early '90s in a case involving a federal judge that was 71 00:04:27,733 --> 00:04:32,733 impeached said the courts have no role whatsoever in regulating impeachment, either in the House 72 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,033 or the Senate. So there's no other recourse the senators have if Nancy Pelosi decides 73 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,500 to hold onto the articles until there could be a negotiation about witnesses in the trial. 74 00:04:42,500 --> 00:04:47,466 JOHN YANG: And help us understand the -- sort of the political calculus here. 75 00:04:47,466 --> 00:04:52,466 What leverage does this create by holding on to these articles of impeachment, by not 76 00:04:54,433 --> 00:04:57,833 triggering the trial in the Senate against the president? 77 00:04:57,833 --> 00:05:02,833 MICHAEL CONWAY: Well, you just played the clip of -- Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell 78 00:05:05,300 --> 00:05:08,666 have also said they want to have a very abbreviated trial, no witnesses, no drama. Let's get it 79 00:05:09,266 --> 00:05:11,333 over with. 80 00:05:11,333 --> 00:05:15,133 Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer don't want to do that. There are existing rules for prior 81 00:05:17,033 --> 00:05:20,000 impeachments. In 1986, the Senate had a whole series of rules you can find on Senate.gov 82 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,600 about impeachment. 83 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,400 And in Bill Clinton's impeachment, they added two new resolutions. Those provided for witnesses. 84 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,800 There were witnesses in Bill Clinton's impeachment. 85 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:34,033 If Mitch McConnell followed the rules that were adopted unanimously in 1999, there would 86 00:05:36,066 --> 00:05:39,033 be witnesses. But the Senate has absolute power to change it. The question is, does 87 00:05:39,033 --> 00:05:41,033 he have 51 votes to do that? 88 00:05:41,033 --> 00:05:45,100 JOHN YANG: Is there a potential downside, or is there a risk to what House Speaker Pelosi 89 00:05:45,100 --> 00:05:47,133 is doing? 90 00:05:47,133 --> 00:05:50,600 MICHAEL CONWAY: Of course. You just heard the Republican talking point, which is that 91 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,933 the managers now have cold feet, that they don't want to send the case to the House. 92 00:05:54,933 --> 00:05:59,933 But I think one of the real variables here is, how is President Trump going to react 93 00:06:02,033 --> 00:06:04,400 to this? He's already reacted to the issue that he's been impeached. He believes -- and 94 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:09,400 you just heard his words -- that he -- the Senate will, he says, exonerate him. That 95 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,233 won't happen, but they can find him not guilty, acquit him. 96 00:06:14,233 --> 00:06:18,933 If the trial is prolonged, and he doesn't get that day, he may actually put some pressure 97 00:06:18,933 --> 00:06:23,933 on McConnell to come to some agreement about witnesses. And he's famously said he himself 98 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,733 wants to call Representative Schiff and others as witnesses in the trial. 99 00:06:28,733 --> 00:06:33,733 JOHN YANG: This idea of withholding the articles from the Senate, it was floated by professor 100 00:06:35,133 --> 00:06:37,100 - - Harvard Law School Professor Laurence Tribe. 101 00:06:37,100 --> 00:06:41,766 He got -- the idea was that you essentially indict the president, you charged him with 102 00:06:44,233 --> 00:06:46,833 these articles of impeachment, and you never give him the opportunity to -- for the acquittal 103 00:06:48,166 --> 00:06:49,166 in the Senate. 104 00:06:49,166 --> 00:06:51,200 Is that viable? 105 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:55,100 MICHAEL CONWAY: Well, it may be viable, but the public may not think it's fair. 106 00:06:55,100 --> 00:06:59,600 In Robert Mueller's report, he put a footnote that's -- where he said that he couldn't take 107 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:04,200 any action and recommend whether there should be criminal charges. And he said that that 108 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,200 would be decided in impeachment. 109 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,500 And one of his rationales was, the president had no opportunity to vindicate himself. And 110 00:07:12,566 --> 00:07:14,800 so I think, if the president really had no opportunity to vindicate himself, there was 111 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,100 never a trial, I think that would backfire on the Democrats. 112 00:07:19,100 --> 00:07:23,133 One other thing to think about, the Democrats have been in court. They have a hearing on 113 00:07:23,133 --> 00:07:28,133 January 3 on two lawsuits in the court of appeals in Washington, one for Don McGahn 114 00:07:29,266 --> 00:07:31,266 to testify, one for the grand jury material. 115 00:07:31,266 --> 00:07:35,233 Their whole rationale is, it's part of an impeachment inquiry. So, what are the Democrats 116 00:07:35,233 --> 00:07:39,500 going to say on January 3? Is the impeachment inquiry still going on? Or is it over? 117 00:07:39,500 --> 00:07:43,033 JOHN YANG: And also help us. We're going to be -- people are going to be hearing a lot 118 00:07:43,033 --> 00:07:44,566 of terms they haven't heard before. 119 00:07:44,566 --> 00:07:48,233 We heard Speaker Pelosi talking about appointing House managers. 120 00:07:48,233 --> 00:07:49,933 MICHAEL CONWAY: Right. 121 00:07:49,933 --> 00:07:52,566 JOHN YANG: Who are the House managers, and why is that important? 122 00:07:52,566 --> 00:07:55,466 MICHAEL CONWAY: The House managers are essentially the prosecutors. They're very important. They're 123 00:07:55,466 --> 00:07:59,700 members of Congress. They will go to the Senate. They will serve as the prosecutors in the 124 00:07:59,700 --> 00:08:01,700 trial. 125 00:08:01,700 --> 00:08:05,733 And I believe a lot of Democrats would like to have the designation and the status of 126 00:08:07,666 --> 00:08:11,933 being a House manager, but it's really a job. It's not an honorary position. They're going 127 00:08:11,933 --> 00:08:15,800 to have to present the evidence in the trial, whether they're witnesses or not. 128 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,833 And the fact that they may not subpoena new witnesses, they can still bring the witnesses 129 00:08:19,833 --> 00:08:24,833 who appeared before the Intelligence Committee, Ambassador Yovanovitch, Lieutenant Colonel 130 00:08:26,966 --> 00:08:31,066 Vindman, and others. So they better be skilled prosecutors, skilled questioners. 131 00:08:31,066 --> 00:08:33,633 And I think Nancy Pelosi understands that. 132 00:08:33,633 --> 00:08:38,533 JOHN YANG: And you also said that the speaker and also Senator Schumer, the Democratic leader 133 00:08:40,533 --> 00:08:44,833 in the Senate, want to slow this process down. They seem to be racing to get the impeachment 134 00:08:44,833 --> 00:08:47,600 done in the House, but why would they want to slow things down now? 135 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,000 MICHAEL CONWAY: Well, they want a set of ground rules. They want witnesses. 136 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:55,100 And I think some Republican members of the Senate are going to be under some political 137 00:08:55,100 --> 00:09:00,166 pressure here. If Senator Schumer asks that these four witnesses or others -- he wants 138 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,833 John Bolton, he wants Chief of Staff Mulvaney to be witnesses and two others. They can ask 139 00:09:07,700 --> 00:09:11,700 Chief Justice Roberts, who will be presiding over the Senate trial, to subpoena them. 140 00:09:11,700 --> 00:09:16,700 And the rules provide for subpoenas in the Senate. That can be overruled. Chief Justice 141 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,533 Roberts, in a normal trial, what he says goes, but not in the Senate. The Senate, by a majority 142 00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:25,733 vote, can overrule him. 143 00:09:25,733 --> 00:09:29,766 But let's take Republican senators up for reelection in hotly contested states like 144 00:09:29,766 --> 00:09:34,766 Colorado or Maine. The question is going to be, do you want witnesses or not? A recent 145 00:09:36,766 --> 00:09:40,133 poll shows that 71 percent of the American public want the witnesses to testify. 146 00:09:42,633 --> 00:09:45,300 So they're going to have a tough vote. And whether Mitch McConnell can keep his 53 Republicans 147 00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:47,400 in line will be the question. 148 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,433 JOHN YANG: Michael Conway, a lot of issues we're going to be talking about for weeks 149 00:09:50,433 --> 00:09:51,433 to come. 150 00:09:51,433 --> 00:09:52,433 (LAUGHTER) 151 00:09:52,433 --> 00:09:53,900 JOHN YANG: Thanks a lot. 152 00:09:53,900 --> 00:09:54,033 MICHAEL CONWAY: You're more than welcome. Thank you.