JUDY WOODRUFF: To reflect a little on
what Senator Warren had to say and more

on the events of this week, it's
time for Brooks and Capehart.

That is New York Times
columnist David Brooks and

Jonathan Capehart, columnist
for The Washington Post.

It is so good to see both of you,
smiling faces on this Friday evening.

And I do want to get to
Senator Warren, David,

but first let me ask you about today's
jobs numbers. They were disappointing.

It was expected there would
be many hundreds of thousands
more than there were.

Do these numbers say something
about, frankly, the wisdom of
President Biden's economic plans?

DAVID BROOKS: Maybe. I
don't think we know yet.

But we're doing two gigantic
experiments that are really
unprecedented in American history.

We have never spent $6 trillion
in such a short period of time,

and gone into debt while doing
it. If the two other Biden plan
passes, it'll be $10 trillion.

At the same time, we have never seen Fed
expansionary policy this momentous. And

so this is an experiment. And
maybe it'll pay off, but maybe
there will be inflation. Warren

Buffett's a little worried
about inflation. Other people
are worried about inflation.

Maybe, as Michael Strain said
earlier in the program, the fact
that people are paid to stay

home means I don't want to
get a job. I can hang out at
home, what seems a lot better.

And so we -- I don't think
we know the answer to what
happened. But it was a shocking

number. And we just have to pay attention
to the fact that this could go sideways in

a million ways, because we're
doing something really risky.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Jonathan, do you
see that this makes some sort

of statement about what
President Biden's doing?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: I
don't think so, not yet.

We cannot grade the entirety
of President Biden's

fiscal plans based on one
unemployment number. We have got to
look at the long haul here. And so

the jury's out on that. However, we have
to think about all the things that David

was just talking about, in terms of the
inflationary concerns and all of that.

We have to also talk about the fact that
we're also dealing with -- still with a

global pandemic, people being reticent.
As much as folks want to get out and

restart their lives, there are a lot
of people who, like, can't find jobs,

are too afraid to get out
there, for fear of what's going
to happen with the pandemic.

And, also, on top of all
of it, even though lots of
states are starting to reopen,

some more fully, like New York, New
Jersey and Connecticut have announced,

but they're still slowly reopening.
So I think it's a little too early,

Judy and David, to start being
gloom and doom over the state
of the economy, not just yet.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, in
connection with all this,

you heard Senator Warren. I asked her
about her plans to tax the wealthy.

She has a much more,
shall we say, ambitious

set of proposals even than what
President Biden has put out there.

David, what do you -- where do
you see any of this going with
regard to taxing the wealthiest

in order to pay for what he wants to do?

DAVID BROOKS: Well, it's pretty popular.

And it's also just a fact
that wealth is concentrated

over the last 30 or 40 years. It's
also just a fact that corporations
have done extremely well,

and corporate profits
have done pretty well.

So, if you want to tax things to
pay for things, these are probably
the least bad things to tax.

There is going to be a cost. When you
raise the corporate tax rate, and,

on the margins, companies will flock
to a place with a lower corporate tax

rate than a higher corporate
tax rate. That's probably true
on the margins. But it seems to

me the Biden administration has chosen
the appropriate areas to raise taxes.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Jonathan,
what do you see when you look at

taxes and President Biden and
what Senator Warren's saying?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Well, one, I agree
with David in the last point that he made.

But let's also remember
they're still in the middle of
negotiations. And even though

I think the initial number the
president has put out there,
wanting to raise the corporate

tax rate to 28 percent from
21 percent, and, before that,
under Trump, it was 35 percent,

and he lowered it that much,
that the president and the
administration has been -- have been

sending signals all along that
they're willing to negotiate,
willing to negotiate on that piece.

As for Senator Warren, of course, she is
going to shoot for the moon and the stars

as a means of, one, because
she believes that fully,

firmly believes it, but also
as a way of trying to push the
president further, push him to do

more than maybe he is constitutional -- he
thinks he's constitutionally capable of.

But if the American -- if
the American Rescue Plan

is any indicator, I don't think she's
going to have to push too hard to get

the president to think imaginatively about
how to go about his policy -- his plans.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Let's talk about the
Republicans, David, a lot going on in

that party this -- the last few
days, and, next week, a vote
upcoming among House Republicans.

It looks like they are going to kick out
Congresswoman Liz Cheney of Wyoming as the

conference chair in the
House, because she's not only
insufficiently loyal to President

Trump. She's saying he actively should
not be the person the party's following.

What does all this say
about the Republican Party?

DAVID BROOKS: Well, it's
still Donald Trump's party.

It shows that you have to -- more or
less, as everyone is pointing out,

you shouldn't have to be a lie
to qualify -- you have to lie to
qualify to be a Republican. And

that's the standard that is now
being laid down. And Elizabeth
Cheney just didn't want to lie.

There's also a lot of
internal politics here, that

what they want from the person
in a leadership role is the
ability to get them reelected.

And so the House members are worried that,
because she keeps picking on this issue,

she's going to be less effective at
raising money and getting them reelected.

Elise Stefanik, the person who's
probably going to replace her,

has read the party. She was
a Harvard educated person who
worked in the Bush administration,

endorsed John Kasich, and sat out the 2016
convention because Donald Trump was going

to be the nominee. Ruth Marcus, our
friend, has a good column on this.

And she's now a roaring Trumper.
And so she's read the winds. And
that's what this is all about.

JUDY WOODRUFF: In fact, Elise Stefanik
just said in an interview, Jonathan,

yesterday that President Trump is the
strongest president ever when it comes

to standing up for the U.S. Constitution.

But what do you -- what does all this
say, from your perspective, about

what Republicans are --
where they're headed?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: That quote you just
read from Congresswoman Stefanik just

sort of proves what David
was just talking about.

In order to be in the leadership, but
also to be considered a Republican,

you have to lie. All of this tells me that
the Republican Party has officially lost

its way. It is not about values and
substantive issues and being a policy

counterweight to the Democratic
Party. It is all about being
loyal to Donald Trump, one.

But, also, when it comes to
the House Minority Leader Kevin
McCarthy, it's do anything,

say anything to ensure, you hope,
that you are in good position
to retake the House in 2022.

Elizabeth -- Congresswoman Cheney is
a conservative. She is a conservative.

Elise Stefanik, by comparison, from
Upstate New York is a moderate.
And when you look at -- the

Club For Growth gives Elise Stefanik a 35
percent rating. The Heritage Foundation

gives Elizabeth Cheney an
80 percent rating and Elise
Stefanik a 48 percent rating.

And if you want to talk about
fealty and loyalty to Donald
Trump, Congresswoman Cheney

voted with Donald Trump 92.9
percent of the time, as compared
to Elise Stefanik, who voted

with him 77 percent of the --
77 percent of the time. And this
is data from FiveThirtyEight.

So, it's like the Soul Train
Scramble Board here. It's going
to take a while to figure out what

they're -- what the Republican
Party is all about, really. But,
right now, the Republican Party

is about Donald Trump, only about
Donald Trump, and how Donald
Trump feels about everything.

And one last point, Judy. I
know I'm going on. The number
one reason why Congresswoman

Cheney is in trouble is because Donald
Trump hates her for telling the truth.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, David, as both
of you are saying, it is not only what

Congresswoman Cheney -- or Congresswoman
Stefanik is saying about former President

Trump, but it's also her --
her continuing to insist, along
with so many other Republicans,

that the election -- in her
words, she said election fraud
was widespread last year.

She has spoken out for this recount going
on in Maricopa County, Arizona, that's

paid for only by Republicans -- or
being sponsored only by Republicans.

So, I mean, this says something
about future elections as well.

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, in a country
with a lot of problems, the
Republicans have picked the one

area that's not broken to address all
their energy on. And that's elections.

And so they -- all these
laws, I doubt they will have
a huge effect. I think studies

show that they don't have a
big effect on damping down
turnout. But it's just a -- given

American history -- Jonathan and
I have talked about it before
-- it's just a horrific look.

And the amount of energy going
into it, and the fact that
Florida Governor DeSantis did it,

announced is the signing of Florida's
new election law on FOX, who
does a news event on one network?

(LAUGHTER)

DAVID BROOKS: I mean, this -- it
just shows we are in a land of
theater. It's not about anything

but the symbols of showing Donald
Trump is right about the election
and there was a lot of fraud.

And it's a theatrical gesture,
a Potemkin set of laws to just
reinforce the Trump narrative.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Jonathan,
as both of you have said,

these election laws have a very real
effect on what happens going forward

in the congressional elections
next year, the midterm elections,
and, of course, beyond.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Right.

I think, a few shows ago, I said that
these election laws were a solution

in search of a problem. And I cannot
remember the person who sent me an e-mail,

but they wrote me and said, listen,
stop saying that because it's not true,

because, from the Republican perspective,
it is a solution in -- to solve a problem.

And the problem from the
Republican perspective is too many
Democrats voting. And, in the end,

that's what this is all about.
The mail-in voting, the absentee
balloting that Democrats pushed hard

because of the problems with the
Postal Service, because of fears
of going out in public because

of the pandemic, Democrats, who
used to not vote by mail and not
absentee vote, did it in droves

in the safest election in
American history, as we learned
from the federal government.

And so all of these laws are
about stopping as many Democrats
as possible from voting,

as a means of increasing Republican
power and increasing their
chances of retaking the House.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Only a little
more than a minute left.

But I do want to finally quickly ask both
of you, David, about this idea of how the

insurrection at the Capitol
is investigated. I interviewed
Speaker Pelosi this week. She said

it's not something that should
be chosen by the president, it
needs to come from Congress.

And, right now, Republicans and
Democrats are at loggerheads.

DAVID BROOKS: I'm dubious. I
support the idea, I guess, but I'm
dubious they can come up with a

commission filled with people who
have credibility on both sides.

When the 9/11 Commission happened, we
had people like Lee Hamilton and Governor

Kean of New Jersey leading
it, people who really were

part of the establishment center. We
don't have as many people like that.

And even those who are in the
establishment center have less
credibility with the polarized wings.

And so it looks -- I'm
much more pessimistic than

I would have been after 9/11 that we can
put together a commission that we trust.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And Jonathan?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: But we have to put
together a commission. It must be done.

The horror of January 6, the
tipping point that those events put
American democracy on, we cannot

forget it. We must investigate
it. We must find out what really
happened, what truly happened,

all the things that we don't
know about right now. It must be
put before the American people,

so that, at a minimum, we can try
to not have that happen again.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, I know we are going
to continue to ask those questions.

In the meantime, we thank you
both, Jonathan Capehart, David
Brooks. Have a good weekend.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Thanks, Judy. You too.

See you, David.